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Microsoft Continues Porting Visual C++ To Linux (microsoft.com)

Posted by EditorDavid on from the languages-for-Linux dept.

Long-time Slashdot reader Billly Gates shared some news from Microsoft's Visual C++ blog: Visual Studio 2017 now lets developers write C++ code for Linux desktops, servers, and other devices without an extension, targeting specific architectures, including ARM: Visual Studio will automatically copy and remotely build your sources and can launch your application with the debugger... Today Visual Studio only supports building remotely on the Linux target machine. It is not limited to specific Linux distros, but we do have dependencies on the presence of some tools. Specifically, we need openssh-server, g++, gdb and gdbserver.

159 comments

  1. First by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Troll

    Fuck microsoft

    1. Re: First by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I suppose when you're aiming for first post you don't have too much time to think of anything more constructive.

      Been there, done that ;)

    2. Re:First by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Wish I had mods points for this.

    3. Re:First by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Wish I had mods points for this.

      I have but for some reason, I can't find "idiot".

    4. Re: First by Tough+Love · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I suppose when you're aiming for first post you don't have too much time to think of anything more constructive.

      What, framing the discussion properly is not constructive? See, if Microsoft had ever genuinely reformed, then it would indeed be unconstructive to respond to Microsoft's potentially worthy initiative in such a perjorative way. But Microsoft never did reform. It is unnecessary to look any further than Microsoft's shenanigans with Windows 10 to be sure of that, just the tip of the iceberg. So, actually, "fuck Microsoft" is a lot more constructive than you seem to believe: it helps keeps us alert to evil intent, should there be any, irrespective of the possibility that there might really be none in this case. Not that I have the slightest interest in adopting Microsoft's development platform. I am perfectly happy and productive with the one I have now, the development of which is controlled by people I trust.

      --
      When all you have is a hammer, every problem starts to look like a thumb.
    5. Re: First by PoopJuggler · · Score: 3, Informative

      Personally I think "Fuck microsoft" perfectly sums it up. They spent decades attacking FOSS and hindering progress to line their own pockets. So yeah, fuck them.

    6. Re: First by Tough+Love · · Score: 1

      I suppose when you're aiming for first post you don't have too much time to think of anything more constructive.

      What, framing the discussion properly is not constructive? See, if Microsoft had ever genuinely reformed, then it would indeed be unconstructive to respond to Microsoft's potentially worthy initiative in such a perjorative way. But Microsoft never did reform. It is unnecessary to look any further than Microsoft's shenanigans with Windows 10 to be sure of that, just the tip of the iceberg. So, actually, "fuck Microsoft" is a lot more constructive than you seem to believe: it helps keeps us alert to evil intent, should there be any, irrespective of the possibility that there might really be none in this case. Not that I have the slightest interest in adopting Microsoft's development platform. I am perfectly happy and productive with the one I have now, the development of which is controlled by people I trust.

      You Microsofties would be better advised to improve your behavior instead of trying to downmod the richly earned Slashdot cricticism.

      --
      When all you have is a hammer, every problem starts to look like a thumb.
    7. Re: First by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You are a loser.

    8. Re: First by OneHundredAndTen · · Score: 1

      Personally I think "Fuck microsoft" perfectly sums it up. They spent decades attacking FOSS and hindering progress to line their own pockets. So yeah, fuck them.

      I second that. In that spirit, fuck Microsoft.

    9. Re: First by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You two are really gay. Maybe you should meet offline and lick each others buttholes.

    10. Re:First by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Until Microsoft releases the full sources of Visual Studio under the GPL, they can indeed go fuck themselves.

    11. Re: First by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I feel you, bro.

    12. Re: First by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I wish I had created an account here back in 2004, so that I could personally tell Microsoft to go fuck itself. But, I never did. So, I will just have to speak for the anons. Fuck Microsoft. Never forget.

      Captcha: quests. Who shall go to slay this troublesome demon?

  2. Eclipse by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Eclipse is already here. I've used VS for awhile, but eclipse for Java seems fine so far. Certainly if it was my own dime, I'd consider just using it.

    I think they need to stop charging for VS otherwise they may get .. well eclipsed.

    1. Re:Eclipse by WalrusSlayer · · Score: 1

      And Emacs has been there since the 80's. So...? The article was about Visual Studio finally getting some serious work done on being more multi-platform. Which is good news for a segment of developers. That there are already multiplatform IDE's out there is not news.

    2. Re:Eclipse by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Typical Linux user, wants everything for free.

    3. Re:Eclipse by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I like eclipse in theory, because of refactoring and things like that.
      But in practice it's so slow, and C and C++ don't play well with that kind of stuff, so I just stick to vim.

    4. Re:Eclipse by Gadget_Guy · · Score: 2

      I think they need to stop charging for VS otherwise they may get .. well eclipsed.

      They have had free versions of Visual Studio for a some years now, and according to the comments at the bottom of the article this Linux remote compilation works with the community (free) version too.

    5. Re: Eclipse by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Typical Microsoft fanboy, wants to have everyone pushed into turning over control of the computer they paid for and the data they keep to a corporation because they can't handle the job themselves on their own equipment.

    6. Re:Eclipse by digitig · · Score: 1

      The Linux functionality is available in Visual Studio Community Edition, which is free (subject to the usual jokes about "provided you don't value your soul...)

      --
      Quidnam Latine loqui modo coepi?
    7. Re: Eclipse by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I too have found Eclipse to be sluggish but I have switched to using jetbrains clion since I won a license in a contest. I would probably still use Eclipse if I didn't have a jetbrains license, although after using it I would probably pay for a license.

    8. Re: Eclipse by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      For free, sure. The mfg cost is 0, after all. Sell whatever you like, I go with the free alternatives. They are better too, you know.

  3. Sounds like VisualGDB... by WalrusSlayer · · Score: 2

    ...I wonder if they licensed any of that technology. I bought a copy of VisualGDB a few years ago and it was slick as hell. I had to port a bootloader written in C that was Windows-only, turning it into a simple command-line program on Linux. It was easy as using a native toolchain (easier, in fact, if you have Visual Studio muscle-memory), and so seamless that it was easy to forget that this was all over-the-wire interaction between a Linux box and Windows.

    In my case I was porting it over to a Raspberry Pi to prototype a portable diagnostic device for a hardware project. Came out swimmingly, was one of the highest-impact things I did for them. I was starting with all Windows code, both C and C#. Between VisualGDB and Mono, the porting was extremely easy to do.

    1. Re:Sounds like VisualGDB... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I tried VisualGDB but it literally killed my project. Way too many problems. Best choice for us was Eclipse. Switched and never looked back. Oh, and Eclipse is free - that didn't hurt either.

    2. Re:Sounds like VisualGDB... by shutdown+-p+now · · Score: 1

      The debugger code is open source:

      https://github.com/Microsoft/M...

  4. Re:FIST by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    FTFY

  5. Remote only by Khyber · · Score: -1, Flamebait

    That way our program can send what you're building to us so we can disassemble it and steal the idea.

    --
    Still waiting on Serviscope_minor to wake up to fucking reality and realize that Jessica Price isn't going to fuck him.
    1. Re:Remote only by WalrusSlayer · · Score: 1

      What makes you think that doesn't happen now? If they were going to do that (and I'm not yet so paranoid as to think they do that), not like this feature would have been the only way to do it.

    2. Re:Remote only by Richard_at_work · · Score: 5, Informative

      You do realise that "remote" in this instance is you own Linux machine, right? Not a closed build server owned by Microsoft - you are asked for connection information to a Linux machine so VS can copy sources, build, run and connect the debugger.

      A 30 second scan of the link in the summary would have shown that up, but that might have held up your shit posting...

    3. Re:Remote only by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You do realise that "remote" in this instance is you own Linux machine, right?

      Exactly. All you need is a two host LAN over which to move your code. And since Windows isn't secure enough to be connected to the Internet, there is no way Microsoft could be stealing anything.

    4. Re:Remote only by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      wrong kind of remote dumbass. They scp code to the linux target, and ssh command to compile. FFS.

    5. Re:Remote only by Khyber · · Score: 0

      "What makes you think that doesn't happen now?"

      Why would I of all people bring it up if I weren't already aware that this is exactly what is happening and have had it happen to myself (though not via Microsoft?)

      --
      Still waiting on Serviscope_minor to wake up to fucking reality and realize that Jessica Price isn't going to fuck him.
    6. Re:Remote only by Khyber · · Score: 0

      As if Visual Studio isn't sending shit out to Microsoft. You trust way too much, oh coward that can't be bothered to identify themselves because they're WRONG.

      --
      Still waiting on Serviscope_minor to wake up to fucking reality and realize that Jessica Price isn't going to fuck him.
    7. Re:Remote only by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      You do realise that "remote" in this instance is you own Linux machine, right? Not a closed build server owned by Microsoft - you are asked for connection information to a Linux machine so VS can copy sources, build, run and connect the debugger.

      While I'm not asserting that Microsoft is sending anything home in this case, that actually wouldn't be an impediment. They'd just send the data back from your Windows machine, which is receiving the debugging information.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    8. Re:Remote only by Richard_at_work · · Score: 1

      VS does send certain metrics to Microsoft, this has been the case for ages, and its not hidden. But there's absolutely no evidence that VS is sending the sort of thing that you are alleging, so unless you provide some...

      Remote building and debugging has been part of VS for certain targets for ages, this is nothing new. And I'm both identifying myself and calling you out. How about that?

    9. Re:Remote only by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Better than shill posting, which is all this article is. Posted by the biggest Microsoft shill on Slashdot no less.

    10. Re:Remote only by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You are posting this from work? Does your employee know that you are wasting time on the internet instead of working?

    11. Re:Remote only by Richard_at_work · · Score: 1

      I'm not saying it was an impediment, just that the entire premise of the argument was bollocks - the Linux machine in question is one you supply.

    12. Re: Remote only by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Because it's impossible that some people actually appreciate some Microsoft offerings? I don't know if you're paid to bash MS or you're just so deluded that you completely fail to consider the possibly that popular MS offerings are popular because people maybe feel the offering provides better value to them.

    13. Re:Remote only by Richard_at_work · · Score: 1

      Oh wow, how original, never heard that one before, give yourself a much needed pat on the back and immediately consider yourself a top tier comedian...

    14. Re:Remote only by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Grudges die hard, but Microsoft have sensibly changed tack on Linux and FOSS since the change of CEOs.

    15. Re:Remote only by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You're the one who chose that username of your own free will. Don't hate that you have to lie in the bed you made!

    16. Re:Remote only by Richard_at_work · · Score: 1

      At least I chose one.

    17. Re: Remote only by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Nobody at Microsoft has the time or boredom to want to inspect and steal your 18 different broken replacements for string compare and bubble sort. Jesus Christ some people here really believe some of this shit and expect to be given credibility in other conversations.

        You seriously think there are teams of devs sifting through your source code trying to figure out what the hell it does and whether it's worth stealing? Cripes, devs can barely take over code ownership of stuff they are trained on and handed off to.

    18. Re:Remote only by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Nothing cracks me up more than how people get pissed off at AC's for being anonymous, then try to project some kind of deep bullshit onto it.

    19. Re:Remote only by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      I'm not saying it was an impediment, just that the entire premise of the argument was bollocks - the Linux machine in question is one you supply.

      Right, and then the data in question is transferred back through a Windows machine, which you can't trust. It doesn't matter who supplies the Linux machine. You are opening a conduit into it from your Windows machine.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    20. Re:Remote only by Tough+Love · · Score: 1

      VS does send certain metrics to Microsoft...

      However much it is, it's too much. Rejected.

      --
      When all you have is a hammer, every problem starts to look like a thumb.
    21. Re:Remote only by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      you are such a loser.

    22. Re:Remote only by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      However much it is, it's too much. Rejected.

      You just proved his point. You don't know the details, of course. Linux zealots never do. You can reject anything you want. Fortunately, the world doesn't revolve around your kind.

    23. Re:Remote only by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Of course. Basic (optional) telemetry to help improve the product is a terrible thing.

      But hey, that attitude is exactly why the year-of-Linux-on-the-desktop is always going to be _next_ year...

    24. Re:Remote only by Tough+Love · · Score: 1

      Basic (optional) telemetry to help improve the product is a terrible thing.

      Telemetry that is opt-out instead of opt-in is bad. Telemetry with no opt-out is worse. Spyware under the guise of product improvement is the worst. The latter is classic Microsoft. Rejected.

      --
      When all you have is a hammer, every problem starts to look like a thumb.
  6. Sounds clunky by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    You shell out $500 and install VS on Windows, then build and debug your app on Linux on a separate host connected via Ethernet or WLAN. For a small app that might work well but for a large app with thousands of source files and/or many threads of execution at runtime, the extra latency introduced by the network connection could a nuisance.

    1. Re:Sounds clunky by Cesare+Ferrari · · Score: 1

      Well, it's might introduce latency, or it might not, it really does depend on exactly how it's all setup.

      I can imagine VS working on a shared filesystem, so that sshing and invoking the build (probably via cmake as cmake support is new in VS2017) is pretty quick and painless if the machine is nearby. If it runs the build, and integrates build/test results with the IDE, then it's going to be a performance win for some people who are very VS centric, and who are developing cross platform libraries.

      Anything that reduces the pain of cross platform development is welcome - it's not easy to do well, and you really don't want to be switching between multiple toolchains too much as it'll make your brain hurt. Each additional platform takes much extra effort, and keeping that number in check will really help.

    2. Re:Sounds clunky by PPH · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Each additional platform takes much extra effort

      This, exactly.

      Since I'm developing for a Linux platform, I already have one of these here. So explain again why I have to drag another platform (Windows with Visual C++) into my toolchain when perfectly good IDEs are available for the native Linux environment.

      --
      Have gnu, will travel.
    3. Re: Sounds clunky by corychristison · · Score: 1

      Depending on exactly what you are doing, you could run Linux in a VM on the same machine.

    4. Re:Sounds clunky by WalrusSlayer · · Score: 2

      This, exactly.

      Since I'm developing for a Linux platform, I already have one of these here. So explain again why I have to drag another platform (Windows with Visual C++) into my toolchain when perfectly good IDEs are available for the native Linux environment.

      Explain who, exactly, is putting a gun to your head to switch to a different tool chain when what you are using now is perfectly fine?

    5. Re: Sounds clunky by corychristison · · Score: 1

      I guess you could also go the other way, and use Linux as the host machine, and put Windows in the VM.

    6. Re:Sounds clunky by Gadget_Guy · · Score: 1

      So explain again why I have to drag another platform (Windows with Visual C++) into my toolchain when perfectly good IDEs are available for the native Linux environment.

      That is a phenomenally stupid question. Do you ask this sort of thing every time a new feature is added to some software that you don't use? Because I hate to tell you this but the overwhelming ratio of software that you currently use and that which you don't have installed means you will spend the majority of your time complaining about improvements that don't matter to you.

      For people who use Visual Studio, this feature adds an extra platform that can be targeted. It allows people to use the IDE with which they are familiar or simply prefer to use, but it doesn't mean that you have to take it as a personal insult. Improving software and playing nice with other operating systems is supposed to be a good thing, right?

    7. Re:Sounds clunky by Richard_at_work · · Score: 1

      You don't.

      Now consider the developers who, like you, have been asking that very question but, unlike you, have until now been predominantly Windows and Visual Studio based.

      Your argument works perfectly the other way round - just because it exists doesnt mean its aimed at you...

    8. Re:Sounds clunky by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      predominantly Windows and Visual Studio based.

      Please don't bring your Windows paradigms to Linux. We have enough grief with systemd and Wayland already. Keep the Visual Studio conventions and habits quarantined to your own platform.

    9. Re:Sounds clunky by Richard_at_work · · Score: 1

      Please keep your closed mindedness to yourself.

    10. Re:Sounds clunky by scdeimos · · Score: 1

      Remote compilation isn't exactly unheard of, nor is it unusual.

      For example, MonoGame developers on MacOS and Linux can't build .fx format effects (shaders) on their own systems because the fxb.exe tool required is Windows-only and also requires the XNA Framework installed on the Windows machine doing the work. This led to solutions like InfinitespaceStudios in the UK hosting an Azure service for all the non-Windows shader writers to use, even supplying a Nuget package to reference from the Content Pipeline tool. (A huge thanks, Dean!) But if you don't trust InfinitespaceStudios to do it for you they also supply all the source code so you can build and configure it youself on your own Windows server(/desktop) machines.

    11. Re:Sounds clunky by shutdown+-p+now · · Score: 1

      If you only care about Linux, you're not the target audience.

  7. Yet another step forward by phantomfive · · Score: 1

    This is yet another step in the disappearance of Windows altogether.

    --
    "First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
    1. Re:Yet another step forward by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Only a million more steps to go! Keep it up, zealot.

    2. Re:Yet another step forward by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Ah memories. I recall people saying this so many times over the last 30 years. First the Mac was the crown jewel, then some flavor of Unix, or maybe BeOS.

      Then there's Linux - always a bridesmaid, never the bride.

    3. Re:Yet another step forward by phantomfive · · Score: 1

      First the Mac was the crown jewel,

      Seriously? It was just a toy until 2001.

      --
      "First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
    4. Re:Yet another step forward by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Except in the mobile space of course. Windows isn't even the flower-girl there.

    5. Re:Yet another step forward by JustNiz · · Score: 1

      We can only hope.

    6. Re:Yet another step forward by phantomfive · · Score: 1

      It will happen as Windows becomes less and less of Microsoft's revenue. There are signs all over the place.

      --
      "First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
    7. Re:Yet another step forward by Megol · · Score: 1

      No it was not "just a toy", it was used for a lot of serious work and was the primary contender to MS Windows - WHICH IS WHAT THIS SUB-THREAD WAS ABOUT!

  8. MS is obsolete but old habits die hard.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

     

  9. Beware: Greeks bearing gifts by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Remember the paper by Ken Thompson On Trusting Trust @: https://www.ece.cmu.edu/~ganger/712.fall02/papers/p761-thompson.pdf

    1. Re:Beware: Greeks bearing gifts by jonwil · · Score: 1

      Considering that all the compiling work still happens using whatever (presumably trusted) version of GCC and Binutils is running on the Linux box (or VM) you are using, I dont think that particular risk applies here.

    2. Re:Beware: Greeks bearing gifts by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Also quite likely the VS will upload all the source code to MS services for experience improvement purposes.

  10. need openssh-server, g++, gdb and gdbserver. by JustNiz · · Score: 1, Troll

    So basically they're just porting the IDE.
    Remind me again why I'd spend money on this instead of just freely using eclipse or netbeans or something?

    1. Re:need openssh-server, g++, gdb and gdbserver. by Gadget_Guy · · Score: 3, Informative

      So basically they're just porting the IDE.

      No. The IDE still runs under Windows. This extension uses SSH to run the compiler on a remote Linux system.

      Remind me again why I'd spend money on this instead of just freely using eclipse or netbeans or something?

      You don't have to spend money on Visual Studio. This extension works with the free Community edition as well as the paid version. But if you don't currently use Visual Studio then you don't need change just for this feature. It is only really useful if you also want to use the software to develop Windows and mobile applications.

    2. Re:need openssh-server, g++, gdb and gdbserver. by JustNiz · · Score: 1

      >> No. The IDE still runs under Windows. This extension uses SSH to run the compiler on a remote Linux system.

      OK well that just makes my point even more, especially given the compiler isn't even Microsoft's its g++. I feel like I'm totally missing something here. Or maybe there's nothing to miss?

    3. Re:need openssh-server, g++, gdb and gdbserver. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Remind me again why I'd spend money on this instead of just freely using eclipse or netbeans or something?

      Remind me again why you'd be brain dead enough to use eclipse or netbeans?

    4. Re:need openssh-server, g++, gdb and gdbserver. by shutdown+-p+now · · Score: 1

      You're missing it because you're considering it from your perspective. There are many C++ developers out there for whom the primary platform is Windows, but they increasingly need to also target OS X, Linux, Android etc. This makes it easy for them to continue using Visual Studio on their machines, while building, running and debugging code on those other systems.

      Another feature like that is Windows Subsystem for Linux. You wouldn't care about it if you live in Linux land entirely, but if you have Windows code that you need to port, it's awesome.

      Microsoft does have a different product that does target developers on Linux and OS X specifically: VSCode. It has C++ support, among many other things, and it's free and open source. It's also much more lightweight than Eclipse or NetBeans.

    5. Re:need openssh-server, g++, gdb and gdbserver. by JustNiz · · Score: 1

      Yeah you're right I haven't had anything to do with the Microsoft/Windows culture for decades (by choice), so I guess I'm just not gonna be able to mentally put myself in their shoes.

      Thanks for the info about VSCode though. I'll check it out.

  11. porting...what exactly? to what? WINE? VS CODE? by 4wdloop · · Score: 1

    Are they porting compiler and build system or the entire IDE?

    If they are porting IDE than with what? Isn't VS IDE done with WPF these days? Perhaps they target...ehem...WINE?

    Or are they rebuilding it around Visual Studio Code?

    --
    4wdloop
    1. Re:porting...what exactly? to what? WINE? VS CODE? by WalrusSlayer · · Score: 2

      Are they porting compiler and build system or the entire IDE?

      If they are porting IDE than with what? Isn't VS IDE done with WPF these days? Perhaps they target...ehem...WINE?

      Or are they rebuilding it around Visual Studio Code?

      As usual, the Slashdot article title is misleading. What they are describing is not really the porting of Visual Studio to Linux, although MS has been hinting at that for awhile. What the article is describing is the integration of the IDE (running on Windows) with a Linux tool chain (running on Linux). Which per my earlier post, has been possible before with third-party Visual Studio add-ons. For some use cases it is a win.

      If you are not already a Visual Studio user and are developing exclusively for Linux, then you are not the target audience.

    2. Re:porting...what exactly? to what? WINE? VS CODE? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      When I develop on Windows I use Visual Studio, when I develop on Linux I breath a sigh of relief and use gvim and gcc. Who uses Visual Studio on Windows to develop for Linux???

  12. clang is a better target by El+Cubano · · Score: 4, Interesting

    If I were going to switch to anything other than gcc (or support anything in addition to it), I would first go for clang and then maybe icc. I can't imagine what value vc++ would add over those.

    gcc's warning/error messages are pretty awful and I really like that clangs almost always point me precisely to where the problem is, as opposed to where the problem finally made the compiler lose its mind. Does vcc++ improve on clang in that respect? If it does, I could supporting it as a build target for automated builds to get the nice diagnostics (I do this now for a project with clang), but I can't imagine it would be worthwhile for something that gets deployed.

    icc is nice if you are on Intel hardware and want the sooper-dooper extra special optimizations, but that is about it.

    1. Re:clang is a better target by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What it adds is (hopefully) a better understanding of MS's dialect of C++.

    2. Re:clang is a better target by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Indeed. The VC++ compiler is the worst of the bunch, i work mostly on windows yet prefer GCC because its miles ahead in both generated code and standards compliance.

    3. Re:clang is a better target by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Maybe because gcc actually works? I compile with gcc for my binaries. It's not perfect[1], but it works.
      I use clang for bonus warnings, but my program won't run with clang because I need -fnon-call-exceptions.

      Yeah, I know throwing exceptions from signal handlers is a bad idea ("what if the exception is thrown inside a noexcept function?"). But who cares if it crashes when it was going to crash anyway. Also, I check null pointers a bit more carefully in noexcept. Being able to catch and log NPEs helps tremendously when you're porting from a GC'd language, so the benefit outweighs all the downsides.

      [1] I've reported one gcc bug and gotten it fixed, and I'm sitting on two more less-severe gcc bugs.

    4. Re:clang is a better target by johannesg · · Score: 2

      If you had gone as far as reading the summary, you might have noticed it doesn't actually use the Windows compiler on Linux. Instead it uses gcc.

    5. Re:clang is a better target by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      bits of clang have been showing up in Visual Studio for a while now.
      Clang with Microsoft CodeGen in VS 2015 Update 1

      Clang is the C-LANGuage family front end for LLVM compiler. Microsoft is using it the same way: clang parses your files, but Microsoft CodeGen finishes the job.
      This means that source/syntax will be the same between VS and Linux, but on window's you'll get microsoft's optimizations instead of LLVM's.

    6. Re:clang is a better target by phantomfive · · Score: 1

      I use clang for bonus warnings, but my program won't run with clang because I need -fnon-call-exceptions. Yeah, I know throwing exceptions from signal handlers is a bad idea ("what if the exception is thrown inside a noexcept function?"). But who cares if it crashes when it was going to crash anyway. Also, I check null pointers a bit more carefully in noexcept. Being able to catch and log NPEs helps tremendously when you're porting from a GC'd language, so the benefit outweighs all the downsides.

      FWIW a more common way to do this is by letting it crash and leaving a core file, then getting a stack trace of the core. The advantage of this is you can examine the state of all variables at the time of the crash, anywhere on the stack, at your leisure (ulimit -c unlimited enables core dumps).

      If you want to set it up print the stack into your log automatically, you can use a command like this:
      echo "bt" | lldb -c corefile; rm corefile

      Obviously be careful with the rm command, and another option is to store the core in a place to be examined by hand if needed.

      --
      "First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
    7. Re:clang is a better target by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I think this has already been pointed out ad nauseam, but it is not the compiler, but the IDE. You can use the Visual C++ IDE to develop software that builds on Linux using GCC (I imagine clang too in the near future), and debugs over a network connection.

    8. Re:clang is a better target by El+Cubano · · Score: 1

      I did not interpret that to mean that it compiles with gcc. It could be that it uses gcc for pre-processing, linking, or some other non-compilation step. At least, that's what I thought.

    9. Re:clang is a better target by Threni · · Score: 1

      > I can't imagine what value vc++ would add over those.

      The wonderful VS IDE for debugging, as opposed to the piece of shit retro crap that is GDB? I hate Windows and all it stands for, but let's not kid outselves that it's time to flush that dated bollocks down the toilet and do some sensible debugging.

    10. Re:clang is a better target by enrique556 · · Score: 1

      I agree that clang++ is better at the moment, I prefer it over g++ myself.
      However, as I understand it gcc has had a resurgence in effort and has caught up recently in some metrics (citation probably needed, whatever), and gcc could concievably overtake clang in the future.
      Microsoft wouldn't be wise to target a compiler purely based on which was superior at this point in time, rather they should base it on the compiler project's expected momentum in the next 5-10 years.
      Also note that they had already targeted clang for their android development bits of vs.

    11. Re:clang is a better target by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Sorry, no. That's not an option. I catch the null pointer exception, just like the original Java.

    12. Re:clang is a better target by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      To clarify:

      * The original project is hundreds of thousands of lines of Java, and the new project has been hastily-ported to C++ with very few changes.
      * The C++ code includes catch handlers everywhere the Java does, but C++ doesn't natively generate null pointer exceptions. That's where gcc's -fnon-call-exceptions comes into play:
      * Signal handler catches and decodes segfault and then throws a NullPointerException (unfortunately that trick doesn't work with clang).

      The aside about crashing when you were going to crash anyway was referring to exceptions thrown from within a C++ noexcept function, which immediately terminates the program. Avoiding that in the code converted from Java is pretty straight-forward, but it's not 100% foolproof. Basically you just have to be extra-careful inside any thing you decide to declare noexcept, and inside destructors (since they're implicitly noexcept). Fortunately Java doesn't have destructors, so that really means anything that's noexcept has to be new code that was originally written in C++. Unfortunately, the reason it's not 100% foolproof is that tools don't report that you're calling a non-noexcept function from a destructor, since there would be tons of false positives if they reported every function that is capable of throwing an exception that's called by a destructor. So when in doubt, use a try/catch handler "condom" in the destructor.

      tl;dr: Program needs to behave just like original Java program, including gracefully recovering from a null pointer exception (aka segfault). gcc allows that; clang doesn't.

    13. Re:clang is a better target by shutdown+-p+now · · Score: 1

      It does use gcc.

  13. Yet another repackaged GCC then? by RightwingNutjob · · Score: 2

    And I want it because...why?

    Maybe I'm the one with the problem. Given how easy it is to sell people something they already have for free (Dropbox, Slack, GotomyPC, etc), you'd think I'd get on the bandwagon and go into business selling people the ability to click their mouse or type Latin characters on their keyboards.

    1. Re:Yet another repackaged GCC then? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Dude! I need Latin chars for emoticons on Facebook. If you can build me an on-screen keyboard with those, that pops up automatically whenever I accidentally reach for my clunky plastic keyboard, I'll give you $2 and for every char that I send, you can also send yourself one.

  14. Microsoft, can you fix Linux? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    I never thought I'd say this, but Microsoft may be the only organization out there that can save Linux from itself.

    I was a long time Linux user. I started with Yggdrasil, before moving on to other distros over the years. I've seen Linux grow from almost nothing into a superb desktop and server OS, but I've also witnessed its steep decline since then.

    Linux distros peaked around 2010. Its reliability was great. It was finally easy to install. It had excellent hardware support. It had good desktop environments. Linux distros of that era were a pleasure to use.

    Then it all went to hell. PulseAudio ruined the audio/sound experience. GNOME 3 ruined the desktop experience. NetworkManager caused me nothing but problems. Then systemd came along and prevented my Linux systems from booting properly on multiple occasions (I never had this sort of a problem with sysvinit).

    I can no longer use Linux in its current state. I've had to move to FreeBSD.

    While I've never trusted Microsoft, and I've never liked using their software, I'm beginning to think that they may be the only hope for Linux.

    If they created a modern Linux distro that undid so much of the damage that we've seen during the recent past, then I may be persuaded to return to Linux.

    If anyone from Microsoft is reading this comment, please consider creating a proper Linux distribution. Create one that doesn't use PulseAudio, one that doesn't use GNOME 3 by default, and one that doesn't force systemd on us.

    Microsoft, please create a Linux distro that works for its users, instead of against us. I never thought I'd say this, either, but I would even be willing to pay a fair price for such a Linux distro.

    1. Re:Microsoft, can you fix Linux? by Junta · · Score: 3, Interesting

      You do realize that most of the complaints you have are basically moving a Linux desktop more toward what MS has done with Windows desktop. PulseAudio bears no small resemblence to Windows Vista+ audio stack (in terms of architecture). systemd similarly resembles the way microsoft services work, journald resembles event viewer design, networkmanager is pretty much the same way Windows does network management, dconf acts a lot like the registry.

      If anything, I'd say MS is worse at many of these. As much as I object to journald, event viewer is worse. systemd does make some things more complex, but not nearly so much as the way microsoft handles services. dconf is at least more straightforward and more powerful than windows registry.

      --
      XML is like violence. If it doesn't solve the problem, use more.
    2. Re:Microsoft, can you fix Linux? by phantomfive · · Score: 1, Offtopic

      The only advantage of Windows over Linux is that the drivers mostly work. And that's not because of anything Microsoft has done, it's entirely the doing of the device manufacturers.

      --
      "First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
    3. Re:Microsoft, can you fix Linux? by Gadget_Guy · · Score: 1

      I never thought I'd say this, but Microsoft may be the only organization out there that can save Linux from itself.

      I think that Linux is doing well enough without Microsoft making their own distribution. Yes, Linux has had some problems with some aspects, but so has Microsoft. Just look at the changes that it made with Windows 8 and how they have had to backtrack some of their ideas with Windows 10. I am also wary about the direction that MacOS is going too, so there is no knight in shining armour out there to save the day for us.

      But it is still possible for most people to find a distro or OS that suits their needs. If you have found that FreeBSD is right for you then good for you. I don't see Microsoft wanting to own their own alternative to Windows any time soon. Even their Linux subsystem was based on an existing distribution.

    4. Re:Microsoft, can you fix Linux? by F.Ultra · · Score: 0

      If you think that journald resembles the Event Viewer design then you have not used or developer for either one. Just because journald happens to use a binary storage format does not make it anywhere like the mess that is Event Viewer. EW is designed to handle 1-2 logs per minute with a huge dose of NIH syndrome regarding GNU gettext.

    5. Re:Microsoft, can you fix Linux? by TheRealMindChild · · Score: 1

      Visual Studio was always a MAJOR advantage of Windows. Now, maybe, we don't have to worry about that.

      --

      "When life gives you lemons, don't make lemonade. Make life take the lemons back!" -- Cave Johnson
    6. Re:Microsoft, can you fix Linux? by phantomfive · · Score: 2

      Visual Studio was always a MAJOR advantage of Windows

      Always? No. Vance Petree said, "I'd crawl over an acre of 'Visual This++' and 'Integrated Development That' to get to gcc, Emacs, and gdb. Thank you." Until Visual Studio 2005, the emacs/gcc/gdb stack was clearly better (once you got over the learning curve). It was not even a question, visual studio sucked.

      Now Visual Studio is definitely an advantage of Windows.......but only for people who prefer Visual Studio. For people who have preference for certain tools, like the Valgrind suite, Linux is still better. And don't talk to me about autocomplete, even fucking vi has autocomplete now.

      --
      "First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
    7. Re:Microsoft, can you fix Linux? by TheRealMindChild · · Score: 1

      You are absolutely out of your mind

      --

      "When life gives you lemons, don't make lemonade. Make life take the lemons back!" -- Cave Johnson
    8. Re:Microsoft, can you fix Linux? by phantomfive · · Score: 1

      You are absolutely out of your mind

      What an erudite, informative, and intelligent thing to say. You are so convincing. I expect nothing less from Windows lovers.

      --
      "First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
    9. Re:Microsoft, can you fix Linux? by Tough+Love · · Score: 0, Offtopic

      You do realize that most of the complaints you have are basically moving a Linux desktop more toward what MS has done with Windows desktop

      If that's what you think, then use KDE, it's smoother, more flexible and more sensibly organized than Microsoft's Windows GUI. And doesn't lean on a horrible centralized configuration hack like the dconf, gconf or registry monstrosities. A lot of the Microsoft envy that Gnome devs suffer from is just pure brain damage, as evidenced by Gnome development falling off the rails multiple times. Sure, Microsoft had some good ideas worth learning from, but a lot of them, like the registry, are pure crap, apparently designed mainly to maximize the suffering of long suffering Windows victims.

      --
      When all you have is a hammer, every problem starts to look like a thumb.
    10. Re:Microsoft, can you fix Linux? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So Visual Studio is only an advantage to people who prefer Visual Studio, and yet your proof that it wasn't a major advantage of Windows before 2005 was because one person didn't prefer Visual Studio.

      As someone who was forcibly dragged from Borland C++ to Visual Studio, I had to grudgingly concede that Microsoft's development system was quite a usable system. It certainly did not suck.

    11. Re:Microsoft, can you fix Linux? by Tough+Love · · Score: 1

      You do realize that most of the complaints you have are basically moving a Linux desktop more toward what MS has done with Windows desktop

      If that's what you think, then use KDE, it's smoother, more flexible and more sensibly organized than Microsoft's Windows GUI. And doesn't lean on a horrible centralized configuration hack like the dconf, gconf or registry monstrosities. A lot of the Microsoft envy that Gnome devs suffer from is just pure brain damage, as evidenced by Gnome development falling off the rails multiple times. Sure, Microsoft had some good ideas worth learning from, but a lot of them, like the registry, are pure crap, apparently designed mainly to maximize the suffering of long suffering Windows victims.

      Microsoft employee with mod points posts "-1, Disagree"

      --
      When all you have is a hammer, every problem starts to look like a thumb.
    12. Re:Microsoft, can you fix Linux? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      you should just have replied with proof about vi's autocomplete.

    13. Re:Microsoft, can you fix Linux? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      > one that doesn't use GNOME 3 by default

      There are dozens. Even on the ones (Fedora?) that use it by default there are others available with just a few clicks of a mouse.

    14. Re:Microsoft, can you fix Linux? by phantomfive · · Score: 1

      you should just have replied with proof about vi's autocomplete.

      Here you go, but if you're having trouble using Google I can't imagine the confusion autocomplete will give you. Maybe you need to put down your beer in the cupholder on your computer and clear your mind.

      --
      "First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
    15. Re:Microsoft, can you fix Linux? by phantomfive · · Score: 1

      So Visual Studio is only an advantage to people who prefer Visual Studio, and yet your proof that it wasn't a major advantage of Windows before 2005 was because one person didn't prefer Visual Studio.

      I didn't think this was controversial lol. I don't know anyone who understood both Visual Studio and the unix stack who thought that VS was better before 2005.

      Even setting up project files in the GUI was painful (where is that compile option I want? How do I link to a shared library?). With gcc it was pretty obvious where the compile option was, and where you had to put it in the Makefile. Of course, if you didn't understand makefiles, that would seem confusing to you, but in that case you're one of the people who didn't understand the unix stack.

      --
      "First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
    16. Re:Microsoft, can you fix Linux? by JustNiz · · Score: 1

      >> Visual Studio was always a MAJOR advantage of Windows. ... In your opinion....
      In mine, there are already just as good if not better equivalents under Linux for free.

    17. Re:Microsoft, can you fix Linux? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Lovely argument. Anyone who prefers Visual Studio does so because they are stupid.

    18. Re:Microsoft, can you fix Linux? by Jerry · · Score: 2

      Are you a troll? Or, perhaps, one of James Plamondon's "Linux technical evangelists", a.k.a. digital terrorists, because of the postings they make on various computer or technical websites. Joe Baar wrote well of them with his article "SLIME".

      I've been using Linux since May of 1998 with RH 5.0. I've experimented with lots of distros and spent time with Mandrake, Mandriva, PCLinuxOS, openSUSE and a few others. For its time RH 5.0 was marvelous, compared to Win95, and so it has been. The current Linux distro I was using was equal to or better than any version of Windows available at the time. From January of 2009 I used Kubuntu, until about 6 months ago when I moved to KDE Neon User Edition.

      I've never had a "reliability" problem with any version of Linux I've used. My Acer V3-771 has an Intel HD Graphics primary and an NVidia GT650M secondary which cannot be set as primary in the BIOS. Despite that, when I installed the nvidia-370 driver it made my NVidia chip the primary and everything runs on it.

      Next, you complain about not being able to do "real" work on Linux. Before I retired in 2008 I was using Linux (SUSE) to write in house client-server apps using Qt4's API. I used compiler defines to switch between PostgreSQL code on Linux and Oracle code on Windows during compilation. I used Linux because I could code, debug and compile 2-3X faster on Linux.

      It's a poor workman who blames his tools.

      --

      Running with Linux for over 20 years!

    19. Re:Microsoft, can you fix Linux? by phantomfive · · Score: 1

      Lovely argument. Anyone who prefers Visual Studio does so because they are stupid.

      No, no. But anyone who claims they prefer Visual Studio without having an understanding of the alternatives, has absolutely no basis for judgement. They merely prefer the only thing they know.

      --
      "First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
    20. Re:Microsoft, can you fix Linux? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      you're a loser.

    21. Re:Microsoft, can you fix Linux? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      LOL...

    22. Re:Microsoft, can you fix Linux? by jeremyp · · Score: 1

      Yes but did he say that because he thought Emacs, gcc and gdb were a better developer environment or be3cause he had a thing against Microsoft? I suspect it was the latter because Visual Studio is way better than using this three tools in isolation.

      --
      All I want is a secure system where it's easy to do anything I want. Is that too much to ask ~~ Randall Munroe
    23. Re:Microsoft, can you fix Linux? by jeremyp · · Score: 1

      I was using Visual Studio in 1998. I was also using gcc and gdb (but not Emacs). Visual Studio was a vastly better experience.

      --
      All I want is a secure system where it's easy to do anything I want. Is that too much to ask ~~ Randall Munroe
    24. Re:Microsoft, can you fix Linux? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      swoosh:(

    25. Re:Microsoft, can you fix Linux? by phantomfive · · Score: 1

      I don't think so, setting up a project was a pain in VS for anything non-trivial.

      --
      "First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
    26. Re:Microsoft, can you fix Linux? by phantomfive · · Score: 1

      Were you one of those people who couldn't figure out why your makefiles didn't always work?

      --
      "First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
    27. Re:Microsoft, can you fix Linux? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The downvote was probably from someone who disagreed with the recommendation for KDE. I also do not like it, although it has enough in common with Windows' (floating overlapping windows, a start button leading to a menu, a desktop with applets, etc), that it would probably make a good transition step from Win / Mac to a tiled window manager.

    28. Re:Microsoft, can you fix Linux? by david_thornley · · Score: 1

      Are you familiar with emacs? It's an IDE by itself, if set up to be one. (The old joke is that it's a great OS shell, but needs a new editor. Since then, vim bindings have come to emacs, so that's no longer true.)

      --
      "When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
    29. Re: Microsoft, can you fix Linux? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yes, pulseaudio is bad. So is gnome3 and network managers. Which is why I use neither - on linux. No need to flee to bsd for this, certainly no need for a ms distro.

      Systemd is harder to avoid, but all the rest is optional. Don't like, don't install. Or uninstall, if you got them by default. Unlike ms, linux distros has uninstall that works.

  15. High hopes by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    It would be quite something for microsoft to offer a full c++ compiler and IDE on linux, it would help migrate Windows developers and (hopefully) offer a standardized way of packaging and deployment. Kudos to them if they pull it off. Embrace and extend indeed!

  16. Is GDB as good as the VS Debugger? by peetm · · Score: 1

    I'm more than curious.

    I find the VS debugger to be simply wonderful; as do others. In my institution, a lot of developers (mostly Ph.D. students) who have to target Linux, choose to run VS in a VM and develop/debug under Windows before recompiling under Linux. This is so popular that some have automated the process somewhat and perform Linux daily builds (only).

    I've used GDB in the past, but wasn't impressed: so I'm wondering why, if the VS debugger under Windows is so good, why don't more people don't do this sort of thing?

    --
    @peetm
    1. Re:Is GDB as good as the VS Debugger? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      there are very good IDEs on linux too. They have gdb integration, syntax predicting thru clang, etc. I use Codelite's GUI for gdb.

    2. Re:Is GDB as good as the VS Debugger? by gweihir · · Score: 1

      GDB is very, very good. If you were "not impressed", then you did not get how to use it. One way to make it more "caveman" (people that cannot express themselves in written form) compatible is to use DDD.

      --
      Most ACs are not even worth the keystrokes to insult them. Be generically insulted by this and ignored otherwise.
    3. Re:Is GDB as good as the VS Debugger? by phantomfive · · Score: 1

      GDB is very, very good. If you were "not impressed", then you did not get how to use it.

      What are your favorite (lesser known) features of GDB? I'm not saying you're wrong, just want to improve my knowledge.

      --
      "First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
    4. Re:Is GDB as good as the VS Debugger? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      gdb is fine as a console debugger, obviously Microsoft is implicitly acknowledging that it is industrial strength. But console debuggers aren't the state of the art for usability any more, like they were in, say, the early '80s.

      There have been many IDEs that wrap gdb when debugging C/C++ code, including Eclipse. Whether they are as good or better than VS is probably individual choice; having more viable choices is good.

    5. Re:Is GDB as good as the VS Debugger? by OneHundredAndTen · · Score: 1

      there are very good IDEs on linux too. They have gdb integration, syntax predicting thru clang, etc. I use Codelite's GUI for gdb.

      And they are, by and large, in the way.

    6. Re:Is GDB as good as the VS Debugger? by gweihir · · Score: 1

      Depending on skill and task, a console debugger is very much state-of-the-art. I used DDD for a while, but I found that I do not need it and that, in fact, is slows me down. Of course, I only use a debugger for really hard things, for the rest I have not needed one in decades.

      --
      Most ACs are not even worth the keystrokes to insult them. Be generically insulted by this and ignored otherwise.
    7. Re:Is GDB as good as the VS Debugger? by Interfacer · · Score: 1

      My experience with GDB is quite out of date. I did a lot of realtime Linux C++ development for Alcatel Space. I did exactly what the GP mentioned: develop and debug core infrastructure on windows using VS, and then port to Linux.

      Keep in mind, I was used to platform infrastructure development on both Windows and Linux, and equally at ease with Visual Studio and VIM. In fact I much preferred VIM and G++ at that time.

      The reason I chose to use visual studio to implement the first infrastructure builds, was that most of our software was multithreaded. Visual Studio debugger worked just fine with multithreaded applications. GDB otoh completely shat itself as soon as the code hit a breakpoint in a worker thread and I tried stepping into / over something. This was 2004 or 2005 iirc. I tried various things but most people I asked in a newsgroup related to GDB told me that I shouldn't be using threads anyway... yeah so helpful.

      In any case, this was over 10 years ago and I don't know how the situation is today, but in my case the complete failure to debug multithreaded code made it useless to our team.

    8. Re:Is GDB as good as the VS Debugger? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Debuggers are a training wheels, throw them off and learn to code correctly. People who get used to this full time debugger method of coding, they tend to just code to what the debugger is telling them it's doing, rather than really understanding why it's doing what it does.

      Debuggers have their place, but too often it's a crutch for shitty coders to produce barely working shitty code.

    9. Re:Is GDB as good as the VS Debugger? by shutdown+-p+now · · Score: 1

      This does not replace gdb. It takes gdb - which is an extremely powerful, but also rather low-level debugger - and provides a high-level, simpler, but more convenient UI around it. Under the hood, it still talks to gdb.

      This is similar to how VC++ native debugger relates to dbg/windbg. The former is more high-level and easier to use, but the latter is more powerful and lets you do crazy things.

  17. "Microsoft Linux, by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Its not just open source anymore!"

  18. That's funny by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Considering how many large software companies use GNU make to build Windows software this effort is likely doomed from day one.

  19. Linux by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Linux is for gays and girls.

  20. Not porting to Linux, targeting Linux. by Gravis+Zero · · Score: 2

    The title here is extremely deceptive because MSVC isn't being ported to Linux at all. What they are doing is creating a way to target Linux. It's still just development on a Windows desktop, not development on a Linux desktop.

    --
    Anons need not reply. Questions end with a question mark.
    1. Re:Not porting to Linux, targeting Linux. by JustNiz · · Score: 1

      >> It's still just development on a Windows desktop, not development on a Linux desktop.

      But whats the point then? I mean Linux already has several better IDEs than Visual Studio.

    2. Re:Not porting to Linux, targeting Linux. by Gravis+Zero · · Score: 1

      exactly.

      --
      Anons need not reply. Questions end with a question mark.
  21. So I can now use g++ and gdb with a bad UI? by gweihir · · Score: 1

    Sorry, but no. I will stay with what has worked well for a long time.

    --
    Most ACs are not even worth the keystrokes to insult them. Be generically insulted by this and ignored otherwise.
  22. OS vs programming language by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Linux is an OS.. "operating system " Visual C++ an old
    " programming language" by Microsoft . Neither are synonymous .WTH do they mean?

  23. MS C++/Kylix by bib1620 · · Score: 1

    Is this going to be in the same vane as Borland's Kylix, which could only use it's own supplied libraries?

  24. Good move by MpVpRb · · Score: 1

    I have been using the VisualGDB product for linux development. If this works as good or better, I'm happy

    I have spent lots of time trying to find a decent IDE for linux, but none of the available options comes even close to Visual Studio

    Yeah, if I have no options, I can get work done on any system, but a good IDE makes everything easier

    1. Re:Good move by JustNiz · · Score: 1

      >> but none of the available options comes even close to Visual Studio

      Of course they do. What you're really saying is that you personally don't want to spend the time/effort to learn something new.

      At least in my opinion both Eclipse and Netbeans are better than Visual Studio, especially since it still wont run natively on linux, To develop linux code with Visual Studio, you need a windows PC (running Visuaul studio) linked to a Linux PC that does the compiling/running/debugging remotely. You'd have to be a moron to think that was in any way as convenient as just developing directly on the actual target OS.

  25. Extend... by TheFakeTimCook · · Score: 1

    ...and we all know what comes next.

  26. But by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    can you emerge world with it?

  27. ... and can launch your application ... by PPH · · Score: 1

    So, they've got a decent X server available for the Windows platform bundled with that?

    --
    Have gnu, will travel.
  28. The UI is great, the compilers? Not so much... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    You have it backwards.

    I'll give Microsoft credit for a great MSVC UI. It actually works a lot better than something like Eclipse (though that's not hard...).

    The compilers though? Microsoft's compilers are shit through and through.

    Call me when they actually support C99. Yep - MSVC doesn't properly support C from almost 20 damn years ago, much less something like C11.

    And STOP CLAIMING POSIX-STANDARD FUNCTIONS ARE DEPRECATED. Yep - MS claims POSIX-standard functions such as fopen are "deprecated".

    MSVC as a compiler is a flaming turd.

  29. Hang on.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I just checked and it isn't April yet!

  30. Pottering has pictures of someone at RH by mpercy · · Score: 1

    Most of the above are foisted on Linux community by that asswipe, and he somehow gets RedHat to go along.

  31. Delph's (again) ontrack for this... apk by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    See my subject (never understood why they cut it either) & this link https://community.embarcadero.com/article/news/16418-product-roadmap-august-2016/ & it's a good thing!

    * Linux is indeed making inroads into the world now & yes, it's a MAJOR competitor (keeps per unit costs down of handsets/routers etc.) - this is your proof.

    APK

    P.S.=> BOTH MS & Embarcadero (will always be BORLAND to me) are doing this but I wonder if Visual Studio does MacOS X, iOS, Android (which Delphi does already) & in 64-bit for all of them too - Delphi, does (& again, soon Linux too & 32/64-bit)... apk