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The Most Striking Thing About the WikiLeaks CIA Data Dump Is How Little Most People Cared (qz.com)

Posted by msmash on from the aftermath-analysis dept.

Last week, WikiLeaks released a trove of web pages describing sophisticated software tools and techniques used by the C.I.A to break into smartphones, computers, and IoT devices including smart TVs. Despite the initial media coverage, it appears normal people don't really care much about it, reports Quartz. An anonymous reader shares the report: There's also one other big difference between now and 2013. Snowden's NSA revelations sent shockwaves around the world. Despite WikiLeaks' best efforts at theatrics -- distributing an encrypted folder and tweeting the password "SplinterItIntoAThousandPiecesAndScatterItIntoTheWinds" -- the Vault 7 leak has elicited little more than a shrug from the media and the public, even if the spooks are seriously worried. Maybe it's because we already assume the government can listen to everything.

28 of 308 comments (clear)

  1. Because most people already assume the worst by elrous0 · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Most people with half-a-brain already assumed that the CIA, NSA, and FBI were doing stuff like this. This merely confirmed our suspicions.

    --
    SJW: Someone who has run out of real oppression, and has to fake it.
    1. Re:Because most people already assume the worst by Fire_Wraith · · Score: 5, Interesting

      It wasn't so much that we assumed they would be doing stuff like this, it's that this is what we expect they would be, should be doing.

      To put it another way, what was shocking about the Snowden revelations wasn't that the NSA spied, it was the bulk and indiscriminate nature thereof. We have no problem when the CIA is hacking the phones or computers of some ISIS or Al Qaeda bad guy or some North Korean/etc general. What bothers us is when they start vacuuming up everyone's calls/emails/etc including ours.

      If anything, the reports were actually fairly reassuring, because what it shows is that encryption works. They couldn't break it, and had to instead compromise the end device, because if your system is pwned then nothing you do on that system (phone, computer, etc) is secret from the guy who pwned it.

    2. Re:Because most people already assume the worst by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Here is another not-so-secret revelation that will one day come out in full: The CIA and NSA are using false rape/pedophilia/sexual harassment/etc. charges to character assassinate people who threaten or cross the U.S. Julian Assange, Dominique Strauss Kahn, and Jacob Appelbaum are three of the most famous cases of this, but there are many others. So you might want to be careful about letting strange women into your hotel room if you're revealing U.S. secrets, challenging the supremacy of the U.S. Dollar, or getting in the way of attempts to put a backdoor in Tor.

    3. Re:Because most people already assume the worst by lgw · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Came here to say this. The CIA seems like its actually doing its job. "Shocking" would be spying on US citizens on US soil, NSA-style; otherwise, carry on!

      --
      Socialism: a lie told by totalitarians and believed by fools.
    4. Re:Because most people already assume the worst by elrous0 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Are you really so naive as to think they're only using these tools against non-Americans?

      --
      SJW: Someone who has run out of real oppression, and has to fake it.
    5. Re:Because most people already assume the worst by meta-monkey · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Well if you want me to be shocked and outraged then you need to show me them using them against Americans. I didn't see anything like that in Vault 7 (so far). The most terrible thing in Vault 7 was their pathetic meme folder. And harboring of bronies.

      Now what did bother me about Vault 7 is the CIA hoarding exploits instead of informing software and device makers so they could fix them. The (alleged) purpose of the US military and intelligence apparatus is to defend the people of the United States. They're taking my tax dollars, and I'm not as pissed off about it as I could be because it's supposed to be going towards efforts to defend me from attack. Instead they're using it to attack others. No no no. Defend me first. That's what I'm paying you fuckers for.

      But that's not really a concept most of the public thinks or cares about. They cared about the NSA because they were hoovering up their dick pics. Once CIA is revealed to be hoarding dick pics then people will care.

      --
      We don't have a state-run media we have a media-run state.
    6. Re:Because most people already assume the worst by Megol · · Score: 2

      There's no need to assassinate the character of Mr. Assange, he is doing a swell job himself with all lying, backstabbing behavior etc.

    7. Re:Because most people already assume the worst by Jack+Kolesar · · Score: 2

      This.. I'd mod you up if I didn't feel compelled to reply myself. I EXPECT and WANT our government to have these tools. For those that think, "What you don't think they will use it on us?" That is not the point. I want our government to employ the absolute best hackers in the world. We need to be able to counter the same actions from other countries. The issue of spying on Americans without warrant is separate of what tools we have available. It's like not letting the government posses guns because they could be used against Americans. Not relevant to the issue at hand.

    8. Re: Because most people already assume the worst by ArmoredDragon · · Score: 4, Insightful

      How can one assume that this is not totally normal? The CIA is a spy agency. That means they spy on people. That would be like saying we should be shocked that Burger King makes hamburgers.

      The NSA was a shock mainly because they were spying domestically when they clearly aren't supposed to. So long as the CIA isn't spying domestically, I personally don't care what means they use. Furthermore, the fact that CIA tactics are more analogous to a fishing line than a dragnet (like the NSA prism program was) then they aren't doing anything wrong, and indeed this particular leak is doing a disservice to the US, whereas the Snowden leak was being productive.

    9. Re: Because most people already assume the worst by The+Grim+Reefer · · Score: 2

      I don't know why the medias only give this news a single paragraph in their "IT News" section... This says a lot about freedom of press. Usually, journalists are utterly against spying on people. But right now they just STFU.

      My guess is that most journalists don't understand the implications of this, and/or think it sounds too much like 1984 to actually be true. Nobody wants to come across as a tin foil hat wearing nut-case. It's typically not good for your career.

    10. Re:Because most people already assume the worst by bill_mcgonigle · · Score: 2

      Well if you want me to be shocked and outraged then you need to show me them using them against Americans.

      Are you going to need a smoking gun before you believe the journalists who are reporting that they each have several intelligence sources confirming that the CIA is using it against domestic targets?

      The trouble with not believing that bombs are falling until you see a smoking crater is that sometimes you're at the bottom of one.

      --
      My God, it's Full of Source!
      OUTSIDE_IP=$(dig +short my.ip @outsideip.net)
    11. Re:Because most people already assume the worst by AHuxley · · Score: 2

      re "And of course CIA do use those tools against US citizens, they are allowed to and required to do so in some circumstances."
      That is what Church Committee worked on. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...
      Recall Operation CHAOS https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... ?
      Project MERRIMAC https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...
      Project RESISTANCE https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...
      "Files on Illegal Spying Show C.I.A. Skeletons From Cold War" (JUNE 27, 2007)
      http://www.nytimes.com/2007/06...
      "... provide new details about how the Central Intelligence Agency illegally spied on Americans"

      --
      Domestic spying is now "Benign Information Gathering"
    12. Re: Because most people already assume the worst by BlueStrat · · Score: 2

      The media found out the CIA was spying on journalists and they didn't seem to give a shit about that.

      Two predominant reasons: First, some journalists are partisan cheerleaders for one political party and/or a particular ideological/political agenda.

      Second, they're all aware that Michael Hastings was killed and the story revealed in the manner it was in order to set an example for other journalists of what happens to the extremely "bothersome" journalists, and they also know they're all being monitored.

      The pressure as an average journalist to just keep your head down and your mouth shut, write the 'safe' stories and collect a paycheck, is intense.

      Strat

      --
      Progressivism (aka US 'Liberalism'): Ideas so good they need a police/surveillance-state to enforce.
    13. Re: Because most people already assume the worst by jpaine619 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      CIA is expected to spy on people being investigated, i.e., possible criminals and enemies of the state. Not fucking ignoring the right to privacy at all.

      Hey look, another person who doesn't have a clue what he's talking about. By law, the CIA is specifically prohibited from collecting foreign intelligence concerning the domestic activities of US citizens. Its mission is to collect information related to foreign intelligence and foreign counterintelligence. By direction of the president in Executive Order 12333 of 1981 and in accordance with procedures approved by the Attorney General, the CIA is restricted in the collection of intelligence information directed against US citizens. Collection is allowed only for an authorized intelligence purpose; for example, if there is a reason to believe that an individual is involved in espionage or international terrorist activities. The CIA's procedures require senior approval for any such collection that is allowed, and, depending on the collection technique employed, the sanction of the Director of National Intelligence and Attorney General may be required. These restrictions on the CIA have been in effect since the 1970s.

    14. Re:Because most people already assume the worst by rabitd · · Score: 2

      Actually there's a third option you're overlooking. Trump was not targeted but the Russians were. If you call someone who's phone is tapped (Russian Diplomat) that doesn't mean YOUR phones have been tapped, but your conversation will still get recorded and logged anyway. Same as if you phone a mobster who's phone has been tapped you're going to get recorded.

  2. They don't want you to know by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

    These were things the Obama admin were in charge of. The press doesn't want to cover it

  3. You are wrong by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Informative

    EVERY. SINGLE. PERSON. I. KNOW. has commented on Vault#7

    It is simply not being reported.

  4. This "leak" concerns expected activity by drnb · · Score: 2

    This recent "leak" concerns expected activity, and legal activity, the CIA possessing the technical means to gather intelligence. The 2003 leak concerned domestic surveillance by agencies prohibited from performing domestic surveillance. In short, the public expects the CIA to be able to break into an iPhone.

    1. Re:This "leak" concerns expected activity by Carewolf · · Score: 2

      The leak was about these tools being given to third parties who leak and sell them.. Are you sure it is legal for mercenaries to do this? And two why do you think CIA needs mercenaries? Could it be to get around their limitation of not being allowed to spy on Americans themselves?

  5. Enemy of the State by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

    It was fiction in 1998... and now it appears to be all too real.

        http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0120660

    The only question that remains is how autocratic are those in power to manipulate these capabilities to their benefit and at the expense of the public welfare.

  6. Most people haven't heard about it by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Most "normal" people the summary refers to have never heard of the Wikileaks release concerning the CIA. In fact, I am pretty sure if I took an informal poll of friends and family most of them (8/10 at least) wouldn't have any idea what Wikileaks is.

    The majority of people do not consider whether they are being spied on, it doesn't occur to them at all. It's not necessarily that they don't care, but they are simply unaware it's an option. If you don't follow tech news this is not something that comes up on people's radar.

    Sometimes I will tell friends about hacks that can break into phones or ways that government or companies can intercept traffic. A few might express concern, but not enough to do anything about it, the spying is "out of sight, out of mind", it doesn't affect them. Most others think I'm just being paranoid or making stuff up.

  7. Re:because wikileaks is a Russian propaganda tool by Midnight_Falcon · · Score: 2

    I'm not sure if it's a Russian agenda so much as a man who started out pretty weird and contrarian, having lived in an embassy where he is somewhat disliked for 5 years and pretending to be a perpetual victim of the powerful, staggering in any direction he can by releasing any juicy information that comes in -- regardless who it harms. It just so happens he gets more information from US sources (leakers) than Russian ones, and doesn't even speak Russian himself to read/understand Russian leaks. So, he staggers in that direction to keep himself in the news. But it doesn't seem as well-thought-out as having a real agenda to push.

  8. Is it apathy? Or helplessness? by daemonhunter · · Score: 5, Insightful

    What are we supposed to do about it?

    The real issue isn't the fact that the CIA/NSA/ [insert bureau here] can do these things. The issue is that they can't be held accountable for it.

    We saw this in the financial crash of '08 (albeit in the private sector) as well: no one who is actually responsible for these things will ever see jail time. This won't end anyone's career. There's just not much the American people can do about it, and I think there's a sense among the general populace that they know this, even if only on a subconscious level. It's not apathy. It's a helpless resignation.

    1. Re:Is it apathy? Or helplessness? by k6mfw · · Score: 2

      Under the SHEEPLE system, govt would have TAXED YOUR ASS INTO POVERTY

      uhmmm, no. Poor people don't pay much taxes because they don't have much money, that is why they are poor. What kills is high living expenses. Housing pricing more and more people out (i.e. lots more sleeping in cars and under bridges). Good healthy food much more expensive than unhealthy junk food. And damned if you get ill medical expenses can bankrupt you. The election theme was to "take back the government and give that power to the people." Yeah right, put a bunch of billionaires as if they will do anything except give themselves tax breaks.

      --
      mfwright@batnet.com
    2. Re:Is it apathy? Or helplessness? by daemonhunter · · Score: 2

      I appreciate the sentiment of this. I truly do.
      Self-sustaining, anarchistic self-governance sounds fantastic.

      As long as the whole world moves to it.

      The problem with anarchy is (paradoxically) that governments are a necessary evil because other governments exist. The moment America descends into chaotic anarchy or ascends into a utopian anarchy, every other nation on earth will see it as weakness and attack. Russia will take out a century of cold war hostilities. China. Iran. ISIS. North Korea might even take a swing. And that's just with today's "villains."

      And none of that even supposes the problems with anarchy in practicality. Anarchy only works so long as the table is level, so long as everyone holds equal force and equal voice. The moment two people group together to better get their way, it starts an arms race that leads us back to right where we're sitting. The moment one person finds enough leverage to overturn the vote on that road, or pays off enough people to pass the vote regardless, the system is broken again. Our current government is, for better or worse, the end result of an attempt to actualize a utopian anarchy. After all, wasn't America founded on the ideals of self-determination and freedom from power hungry tyrants?

      The problem isn't government. The problem is people. Or rather, the problem is that the greed and corruption exist within people, and in fact cannot exist outside of people. Government is only corrupt because it is a product of people working together to achieve an end, and people are inherently corrupt.

      And yes, the system is rigged, in ways far deeper and more pervasive than any Trump dreamed up during the campaign. And yes, voting doesn't meaningfully change anything above the local level, if even there. And this is, I think, where the hopelessness stems from: people know that it's broken, but the monumental task of fixing it will likely topple our government rather than reform it, and that will likely get us killed before we could recover from it. For the survival of the average American citizen, a broken system is better than no system at all. Because of the enemies we have made (or nations who have decided we are enemies regardless of our actions)...a coup or a revolution would mean war on our soil. People are beginning to realize that fixing our government means the deaths of millions, and not from a civil war.

  9. Re:Sure, we all knew... by meta-monkey · · Score: 2

    I think most people don't trust wikileaks.

    Only hyper-partisan leftists. Nothing WikiLeaks has ever released has been shown to be false.

    --
    We don't have a state-run media we have a media-run state.
  10. Alarm fatigue - People just don't care any more by ninthbit · · Score: 3, Insightful

    It's mostly alarm fatigue. Constantly we're berated with news about how our rights are eroding and the government is working against us. While much of it is very true, until it extends to the point of interfering with the common citizens daily life, they won't care.

    People are sheep. You can shave their coats and even pick off a few to slaughter, as long as the heard is large enough to feel anonymous, they really have no reaction. It's not until the sheep feel like they're the next in line do they care.

  11. Re:because wikileaks is a Russian propaganda tool by admin7087 · · Score: 2

    I'm pretty sure it's just Julian Assange's propaganda tool. But you're right, there may be a bit of a 'leak fatigue', especially when the leak does not reveal a scandal but rather practices that everybody expects of an intelligence agency. I mean, c'mon, this leak even contains a useful little GIT tutorial...