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It's About Time Astronauts Got Healthcare For Life (mashable.com)
Miriam Kramer, reporting for Mashable: NASA astronaut Michael Lopez-Alegria flew to space four times for the space agency between 1995 and 2007. While in space, his eyesight deteriorated, a well-documented medical issue NASA's known about for years, and one that many astronauts have experienced first-hand. For many astronauts, their eyesight readjusts once they get back to Earth. That wasn't the case for Lopez-Alegria, though. His eyesight got significantly worse during his time in orbit, and NASA isn't paying for his contacts or doctor visits today, years after his retirement from the agency. However, he still travels to Houston, Texas once per year to allow the agency to gather data about his health, without any expectation that NASA will offer treatment for any conditions that may have developed because of his time in space. In other words, while Lopez-Alegria's eyesight deteriorates, NASA benefits from the data he provides to the American space program, without medical recompense to him today. The lack of health care for former astronauts has long been a sore spot at NASA, but now it threatens the agency's future. Deep space missions beyond the moon, like a mission to Mars, require a better understanding of how extended spaceflight affects the human body.
just because you flew into space. You're one of the plebs, capisce? Now, resume your shopping and stop complaining. Everything is fine.
How many occupations have health side-effects? Thousands. You are just one of many, bub. Get in line. You aren't special.
I totally agree that NASA should pay for the most top-notch healthcare for life for all astronauts. There are not many and they deserve it for the risks they take and the benefits we all gain...
However this line is absurd:
"now it threatens the agency's future"
No, no it does not. Even if NASA shot all astronauts on retirement there would still be a healthy supply of overqualified candidates for flying in space.
I wish people would stop weakening perfectly good arguments by trying to lace them with drama.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
Wasn't the ACA supposed to fix this?
If you post as Anonymous Coward, don't expect a reply.
Don't alot of them have the VA?
We just need to make it so that all astronauts get VA.
I mean, if NASA provides free top notch healthcare for life, then every immigrant will be heading into low earth orbit looking for free handouts. No, no in Trump's America.
First we need to build a giant wall between land and LEO...
This is just a small example of how the US healthcare system is a failure.
Every other Western democracy has universal healthcare coverage. Most alongside private coverage, and some (at least Canada) purely public.
The US system is harmful on so many levels. This includes poor outcomes, 2x to 3x higher cost per-capita than any other system, transferring the cost of healthcare to employers and consequently acting as a strong deterrent to recruiting Americans and an inducement to offshoring work, etc.
But Americans *love* their private health insurance, so it's not politically viable to discuss a real solution. Only crappy band-aids, like ACA (which the Republicans successfully rebranded "Obamacare") and - soon - a watered down version we'll be calling Trumpcare.
Americans object to mandating the purchase of health insurance, but they forget that treating people who present at a hospital is mandatory. Making health insurance mandatory is symmetrical. If it's optional, hospitals should be allowed - and perhaps required - to turn away patients without the ability to pay. Don't like that outcome? OK, drop the objection to mandatory coverage then.
OK, rant off. :-)
"X protected class gets Y" but not the general public. Nope. Not even astronauts are going to get free healthcare from the government unless we all do.
How about we give everybody the privilege, instead of limiting it to Astronauts?
Or at least expand the offering to everybody who's ever wanted to be an astronaut?
-- Sometimes you have to turn the lights off in order to see.
Most, if not all astronauts have military backgrounds. Mostly due to requirement #2 " At least 1,000 hours pilot-in-command time in jet aircraft. Flight test experience is highly desirable." see: https://www.nasa.gov/audience/...
It is true they do not have "access to the doctor of his choice", all former military have access to VA benefits for life.
Which is more than can be said for 99% of US born citizens.
How can the effects be studied if they are treated?
Astronauts should have to sign never to seek treatment after their first tour in space.
You're a hero, very well paid and one of the few people to goto SPACE....
and you want more?
How about fuck you?
Go crank out another book and pay for your own shit.
TFS should be posted at https://www.change.org./
I wish that I can be like that.
Talk about a politically motivated fake news article! I'll bet there NO correlation between this FUD (Fear Uncertainty Doubt) pack of misinformation and current events.
First - ALL FORMER MILITARY (honorably discharged) members HAVE LIFE LONG HEALTH CARE at the VA!
Second - Michael Lopez-Alegria was a US Naval test pilot!
THERE FORE: ok brain surgeon- use Aristotelian logic and fill in the "therefore"
Our system may not be the best, and there's plenty of Trump haters, but come on, making crap up doesn't help anyone.
H-1B astronauts will do the job at half the salary and won't request lifetime of health insurance. Let us outsource this job.
The weirdest part to me is that I would have thought all astronauts would get intense medical scrutiny for the rest of their lives to assess the affects of space travel. Truly bizarre.History will not look kindly on this behavior, it's just callous and short sighted. (no pun intended)
It's weird that 32 out of the 33 developed countries in the world consider healthcare to be an important right of citizenship. But that 33rd country, they don't even believe in it for national heroes, soldiers, or public servants.
It's almost like the cognitive dissonance exists at a fundamental level such that no progress can be made.
Consider this -- it's time that *people* got healthcare for life. Why? People do things; people are aware of things; people see things they want to change, and try to manifest that change. Put up barriers to people, and you disempower some, and encourage others down sociopathic paths.
"It's About Time Astronauts Got Healthcare For Life" because we learn from astronauts, because astronauts have gone out, ...
We learn from everyone, and each one of us goes out into the day not knowing if we'll be alive tomorrow. We work together -- and in so doing, our shared challenges are minimized -- while our shared victories grow larger and larger!
Libertarians love the myth of the human-island -- how every person makes their own end. It's true that we make our own end, but the circumstances of our lives are also random chance and birth circumstance. To judge and put barriers up to someone because they had a life challenge you've never had, and you are unwilling to recognize or empathize with, is sociopathic. Ayn Rand was a sociopath -- you may be one, too. Be careful!
All sides of the politics making points. How about just focus on the realities: We're talking a few dozen people, and longitudinal study is of continued value, so how much money can we possibly be talking about?
He already has healthcare for life through his military service you ignorant fuckwits. Find something else to whine about.
They should have selected candidates that served in the US Army, or are American Native Indians, or have low income, or will be close to the retirement age. All these citizens have free healthcare anyway.
Yes, that is a satyric proposal.
I they NASA is too lazy to setup the healthcare plan for the astronauts it is just an indication that NASA is poorly managed.
Typo: should be "ACA", not "ADA". Modnays
Table-ized A.I.
If years ago US healthcare was not tied to jobs and was not year to year. Then it would not gotten to the point that it is at now.
Americans pay far more for worse outcomes and care than any other nation. Socialization is not only stigmatized (ewww giving a shit about others) but the cost is presented in the most psychologically unacceptable way with forced manual opt ins. Far more money is spent on government wastebut there is little outrage because it's hidden in your taxes. If Americans were forced to send in a manual payment or get fined for overpriced barely functioning millitary hardware for billions of dollars there would be mobs in the streets with flaming cars and looting.
What is the cause for eye sight to get worse in space? Is it the same reason why astronauts need to work out so their muscles don't become weaker while they are in space? What is actually happening to their eyes?
People in jails / prisons get better then the ER at little to cost. And it's costs us a lot just to keep them locked up.
Specifically, I don't give a flying fuck what the slashdot editor-of-the-month thinks should or should not happen. Oh wait, it's msmash again.
health care tied to jobs and for profit 3rd party's are the real issues as well the pre-ex system.
In the past doctor's needed to spend alot of the time fighting junk pre-ex BS just to get paid and there way to much billing code BS that the 3rd party's try to point to say you did this wrong we are not paying.
We need to expand medicare + medicaid to all.
Australia has a system like that and doctors get paided about the same as they do here.
This is true for many government jobs: There's no compensation for on-the-job injuries, unless one has the job of carrying a gun.
Another family member who is a veteran of the USMC and not a retiree is in the VA system. I'm not intimately acquainted with the details but it seems he has to jump through way more hoops to get care.
Basically, military medical benefits != VA benefits. A lot of it depends on length of service and other factors. Clarification/correction/refutation from active duty, vets and retirees welcomed.
This article explains some of the difference:
http://www.npr.org/sections/he...
All sides of the politics making points. How about just focus on the realities: We're talking a few dozen people, and longitudinal study is of continued value, so how much money can we possibly be talking about?
Not only that, but it's actually rather amazing that they're not covering the treatment as part of the agreement to study his eyes. I was pretty much told to expect to have to have on the table at least partial coverage if I wanted to do this sort of research on human subjects--as part of getting permission to do it at all. (Compensation of research subjects is a standard outright requirement. You don't have it in there somewhere, even if it's just a shiny gold star sticker, and the only real question ought to be "How quickly will the ethics review board say no?" Oh, and it does have to scale properly: if I'm wanting, for example, a vial of blood, I probably should be shelling out cold hard cash and/or giving you free some testing you'd normally pay for, which if I'm smart is something I'd be doing anyway... "Access to personal test results" might even make it easier to get you to keep talking to me if it's a longitudinal study.)
So are coal miners. How many of them die from black lung every year? The truth is, at least until recently, 40% of the nation's power came from burning coal. Those guys were heroes for going a mile underground, developing serious and often terminal health issues, to get us the energy we wasted for generations. Are they any less deserving of being called a hero, just because it's not an elite status job, requiring exceptional aptitude and rigorous academic study, and often military service? I don't think so.
There's a lot of everyday heroes that give up a piece of themselves to give us this lifestyle we all take for granted; they all deserve more, not just the astronauts. Support Obamacare!
And let's not paint these guys as paragons of virtue. We'd all give our left nut to go up into space, consequences be damned. They're all smart; it could be argued that they all knew the risks going up there. I don't think they're any more special than anyone else. If anything, I'd say they're still more fortunate.
Free health care for life for ALL people with amazing, good paying, extremely desirable jobs, because all the incredible perks and once-in-a-lifetime opportunities are not nearly enough reward! Also, free health care for ALL people whose fame, wealth or other better-than-average circumstances put them so obviously higher on the list than all those broke, worthless people who need health care and don't have three thousand ways to pay for it.
People want government to operate like a business? Well, here you go. Sending astronauts on dangerous missions, taking all of the profit, and throwing them away. Yay capitalism!
I have Altered the Deal. Pray I do not .alter it further.
The health issues of space travel are well documented. He agreed to the salary and benefits in exchange for the work and risk involved. If he wants medical care, when he can give back the percentage of his salary that would of went towards that.
Troll is not a replacement for I disagree.
> However, he still travels to Houston, Texas once per year to allow the agency to gather data about his health,
If it was me, I'd stop doing that and offer to resume on the condition that NASA also pay for the necessary health care.
A Democrat did that too, working closely with Unions and Corporations to keep workers working in spite of wage fixing.
It was at this moment that it stopped being real insurance and started being the bullshit "maintenance package" that we have today.
You know, health insurance originally covered shit like hospital stays completely. Thats what it was for. You paid a small fee now because you couldn't deal with the small but real risk of running into something you couldnt afford.
Fast forward to Obama, Pelosi, and Reid and in a joint move with insurance companies, "Major Medical" was outlawed. All insurance policies had to include the "maintenance" motivated by the fact that insurance companies made a lot of money on those plans and their higher premiums but not a lot of money on Major Medical plans and their lower premiums.
Today if you want a plan that covers all the worst cases the way Major Medical did, you probably couldnt afford it. Its basically the cost of both type of plans put together because one of them is now mandatory, the one that amazingly doesnt cover the worst cases.
Todays Democrats just dont understand what insurance is. They would rather you pay for a yearly physical whether you like it or not than for you to protect your house and life savings in the case of a major medical issue.
We know its what they would rather have, because thats what they demanded by writ of law.
"His name was James Damore."
If they wanted that they should have become Kosmonauts. Or to be honest COMMIEnauts.
People are willing to pay millions ON THE FREE MARKET to go into space. These ungrateful assholes got that for nothing, in fact they got payed a military officer salary for decades while training and now they want the TAXPAYER to feather-bed them for file? Scum. Give them another trip into space, one way.
--
roman_mir
...like pretty much everyone else in any other first world country does...
or are we waiting for America to turn into Calcutta...
The last A in NASA is for "Assholes" ?
Irrelevant news and morons using moderation to mod down what they disagree on. 2018 resolution: so long.
Actually if you had a national health system like just about every other developed nation on the planet you would not need any special treatment for astronauts because just like everyone else they would get free health care. The statement should not be that it's about time astronauts get healthcare for life it should be that it's about time everyone gets healthcare for life.
Bond:
Trumpfinger:
I've fallen off your lawn, and I can't get up.
So, the guy was flown into space on a gigantic bomb at a cost roughly measurable as a year's salary per pound transported several times... and the only real injury he seemed to get from it was bad eyesight.
Ask him if he would change his mind and become a desk jockey or lab jockey if he could do it all over again knowing he would have to pay for contacts and eye exams.
Personally, I'd submit myself to annual proctology exams with a not so gentle handed doctor and then pay double for them if it would get me into space and I'm really not interested in anything going that way with me.
Oh yeah, wrong country. Good luck with that.
...Sometimes people just have to live with the consequences of their own decisions, even if that means dying. That includes choosing not to buy insurance and subsequently being unable to afford a necessary medical procedure.
That is a logical and self-consistant attitude: the solution to people not buying insurance is that they should just die.
If Republicans would just honestly state it that way, I'd be ok with it.
--they would have to stop saying that they're "pro life," of course.
http://www.geoffreylandis.com
The first question is great, a right and proper way to respond to any entitlement program aimed at improving the healthcare outcomes of a subset of Americans. The second question gives up on the promise of the first and is all too typical of the weak US Left.
Right now those who were really unhappy that Donald Trump became US President are letting Pres. Trump set the agenda for how US healthcare ought to work while pointlessly going on about preserving ObamaCare. ObamaCare (nee RomneyCare) was a gift to the HMOs which kept the HMOs in charge. It's time for universalizing Medicare for all Americans, and HR676 is the practical means to do this.
Physicians for a National Health Program have been championing HR676 for a while and for good reason. It's well time to tell the US government how to handle this, not let them come up with another complex means of preserving HMO power (which invariably means needlessly expensive healthcare that doesn't cover everyone, preserves the idea that healthcare is not a human right, and doesn't deliver outcomes which compare well with countries that do universalize their medical care delivery).
I recommend learning more about universalizing Medicare: an interview with Dr. Steffie Woolhandler, more on HR676, and Dr. Woolhandler on the inadequacies of ObamaCare on KPFA radio starting at 20m27s.
Digital Citizen
And their voters will cheer about it.
The civilized world has at least a base level of universal health care for everyone within their country. We find that gets in the way of profit so we won't allow it to happen. This isn't a partisan issue, either - the health insurance industry owns politicians of every flavor and invests heavily to ensure that this does not change.
Damn_registrars has no butt-hole. Damn_registrars has no use for a butt-hole.
You can pay for it like everyone else. Lots of jobs can have damaging effects on the body, you don't see anyone else getting free health care for life. At the end of the day, being an astronaut is still a job. One that carries known risks.
BeauHD. Worst editor since kdawson.
Other question: Isn't this considered an occupational injury?
Pick one, or both.
Yeah because they work so hard their whole life deceiving the public and swimming around in scuba tanks acting like they are in space...
Pure comic relief - NASA's 1975 Viking mission to "Mars" (Greenland? muahaha)
I agree with your sentiment, but as a vet I'd like to note that soldiers _do_ get healthcare for life under many circumstances. These circumstances include getting (permanently) injured on the job (not limited to being wounded in battle) or retiring (which requires 20 years of service in an up-or-out system). One can debate the quality of some of the care (VA hospitals have a poor reputation, but in practice most vets use private health care financed by the military insurance company TriCare).
In general, soldiers are extremely well compensated in the US. I left after 5, having saved enough to put myself through college, travel around the world for a year and put a down payment on a house with a low-interest VA loan covering the rest. Having Army/Infantry on the resume is a free pass to a lot of jobs, too. A friend of mine just retired after 20. In addition to all the benefits I got, he's got 50% of base pay for life (with raises that are roughly indexed to inflation) and benefits such as health insurance. His pension and benefits are transferable to his wife on his death. So at the ripe old age of 42 he's pretty well got everything he needs to care for his family comfortably for another 40 years or so. If that's not enough he's got a free pass into many government jobs that will allow him to retire (again) after another 20 years and double dip. He'll end up better off than a successful surgeon.
It kind of irks me that vets are always held up as examples of people that the country needs to do _more_ for. That's not true! It's a professional army with no conscripts, and we all knew the risks and benefits when enlisting; most of us simply took a calculated risk. Other people _also_ provide valuable services to society and deserve better compensation _first_, before we revisit how our soldiers are compensated. Teachers come to mind. Trash collectors.
Since historically most US astronauts were seconded from the Air Force, I suspect that NASA's employment practices are set up on the assumption that the military will take care of the astronauts. I'm guessing that's changing, and this guy is one of the people who fell through the cracks.
It's about time we all got healthcare for life. We no longer pay taxes to fill some king or emperor's coffers. We pay taxes for our common good, as a nation and a people. This notion in America that we're all just individuals who happen to live within some artificial borders has got to go. This notion that helping poor people somehow takes something away from others has got to go. When we raise up the poorest citizens, it directly benefits everyone else. Yet we continue to throw money at rich people, even as we see the middle- and working-class continue its slide down. It's madness, when this money could be paying for education and healthcare.
-- sudon't
Air-ride Equipped
A Captain of the United States Navy (and by the way, he doesn't get VA Healthcare? just curious,) a graduate of Harvard's Kennedy school, he was in NASA for at least 17 years (1995 was his first space mission and retired 2012.) He's now a private contractor/speaker. And he can't get his own insurance? Or should have stayed in another three years.
Seriously, I didn't realize that we could shoot the astronauts upon retirement. This opens up whole new possibilities, and I feel bad about making an assumption. You know what they say about assumptions!
NASA, always innovating!
- NASA HR
Well when the political Right claims that Christians are being repressed and discriminated against, they are correct.
Christians are being repressed. By those on the Right. And most enthusiastically repressed by those loudly proclaiming that Christians are being repressed! It's just that the reality of oppression is found in areas like healthcare and working conditions, while the Right only likes to talk about how they are repressed by "Seasons Greetings" rather than "Merry Christmas".
Welcome to distorted mirror world. A world where Fake News is promoted by those who claim that others are responsible for Fake News.
If they treated his eyesight, then they could not collect data about how it deteriorates after spending time in space.