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Online Job Sites May Block Older Workers (cnbc.com)
Joe_Dragon quotes a report from CNBC: Older Americans struggling to overcome age discrimination while looking for work face a new enemy: their computers. Illinois Attorney General Lisa Madigan recently opened a probe into allegations that ageism is built right into the online software tools that millions of Americans use to job hunt. Separate research published recently by the San Francisco Federal Reserve Bank found that in a widespread test using fabricated resumes, fictional older workers were 30 percent less likely to be contacted after applying for jobs. Fictional older women had it even worse, being 47 percent less likely to get a "callback." Several forces are conspiring to ensure that many Americans have to work well past the traditional retirement age of 65. People are living longer, their retirement savings are inadequate, and Social Security reforms are almost certainly going to require it. The San Francisco Fed says that the share of the older-65 working population is projected to rise sharply -- from about 19 percent now to 29 percent in the year 2060. Online job-hunting tools should be making things easier for older employment seekers, and it can. Indeed.com, which claims to list 16 million jobs worldwide, currently lists 158,000 openings under its "Part Time Jobs, Senior Citizen Jobs" category. Monster.com, which claims 5 million listings, has a special home page for "Careers at 50+." In other ways, however, online job sites can cut older workers out. Age bias is built right into their software, according to Madigan. Job seekers who try to build a profile or resume can find that it's impossible to complete some forms because drop-down menus needed to complete tasks don't go back far enough to let older applicants fill them out. For example, one site's menu options for "years attended college" stops abruptly at 1956. That could prevent someone in their late 70s from filling out the form. Madigan's office said it found one example that only accommodated those who had attended school after 1980, "barring anyone who is older than 52." Other sites used dates ranging from 1950 to 1970 as cutoffs, her office said. The Illinois' Civil Rights Bureau has opened a probe into potential violations of the Illinois Human Rights Act and the federal Age Discrimination in Employment Act. Madigan's office has sent inquiry letters to six top jobs sites: Beyond.com, CareerBuilder, Indeed Inc., Ladders Inc., Monster Worldwide Inc. and Vault.
Most people only go 2, 4, or 6, sometimes a couple more. I suppose not supporting people who have gone to college for 1957 years is age discrimination for someone, but even Methuselah only lived to be 969.
"National Security is the chief cause of national insecurity." - Celine's First Law
It could be a combination of wanting every input field to look the same and wanting to severely limit bugs stemming from invalid input, as well as having to accept 1957, '57, and 57 all as the same year. A dropdown may not be the most userfriendly, but it keeps things simple.
-=This sig has nothing to do with my comment. Move along now=-
That's blatantly discriminatory and bigoted. I'm an older worker, I stay late and have a flexible schedule. I'm tired of being denied job opportunities. I should be paid fairly, but I can't get access to jobs I can do really well.
Please note: Age discrimiation in hiring is illegal.
In the 1930's, there was 19 workers for every retiree. In 2030, when most of the baby boomers are retired, there will be two workers for every retiree. This problem has been well known since the Reagan Administration, but politicians found it easy to kick the can down the road.
Almost everything blocks older workers to some degree, usually significant.
Just as we've been telling everyone for years.
Good. It's better for me and the others who prefer hiring older employees. If the elder applicant is physically capable of performing the same task, even with with rather obvious experience benefit aside, older workers are less distracted, more likely to value their job, and less likely to be incapable of normal performance levels due to misadventure.
Happiness in intelligent people is the rarest thing I know.
Ernest Hemingway
If only there was some way to flexibly validate strings.
We'll have to wait for millennials to reinvent something like regular expressions (and announce it's a breakthrough, never before considered technique).
John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
It basically comes down to jealousy. The managers who are now in hiring positions and of same age as the older technical workers are Jealous of all the extra time the technical workers got to spend with their kids by not going into management. They hit back by not hiring their peers and hiring juniors who don't have families.
**Life is too short to be serious**
Tell me about it. I have a cousin who graduated with a history BA in 1996. Turns out it's all bollocks - Martin Luther was Buddhist and Germany won WW1.
Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
As over 50 the discrimination is rampant.
If you're over 50 they find an excuse to get rid of you.
Everyone I know was gotten rid of with extreme prejudice at that age.
Nothing is being done about it and it is never taken up by media or the political parties and yet next to ethnic discrimination the single largest discrimination issue in this country.
I applied to many thousands of job and interviewed at hundreds before I got the handful of low paying positions that don;t even cover costs after fifty and I'm highly qualified for many types of work, am in good health, good personality, highly intelligent, and reasonable youngish looking for my age.
I can only guess it is related to healthcare costs and that most positions ask for the moon these days.
Why should someone stay for team-building exercises after hours? If the company thinks it can benefit from it, then let the company pay for the time. "Team-building" exercises are bs anyway. You really want to build a team, have the occasional meeting over lunch at the local pub. Really want to find the problems? Same thing. After a few drinks, people will say what they really think.
"Transparent" is a shit show that trades on every stereotype going. A man in drag is NOT a transsexual.
Nah, there's some sort of grift going on there. It's not just ubiquitous naivety. I've actually had clients demand that I ensure date-range cut-offs built into forms for potential registrants casually exclude people older than 50 while making it look like like a design oversight.
Failing in the sense that Social Security still raises more money in taxes than it pays out as benefits?
Or failing in the sense that you "cons" are deathly afraid of they day that that tax surplus goes away (as planned) and you cannot spend every cent on a defense budget larger than the next 10 countries' combined spending?
lower the SS age or at least the medicare age.
Why not just have a single player system.
"This problem has been well known since the Reagan Administration, but politicians found it easy to kick the can down the road."
Not coincidentally, during Reagan's first year in office, the IRS ruled that 401(k)s could be funded through payroll deductions. Also during his first term, the Tax Reform Act of 1984 ensured that if a company offered 401(k)s, they were available to all employees. Rather than "kicking it down the road," they created an incentive for people to take control of their destiny away from the government.
By 1990, shortly after Reagan left office, almost 20 million people had 401(k) accounts. Today, they hold $4.8 trillion in assets.
The real problem is not congress, but the common attitude of "I want it all, and I want it now" ingrained in our entitlement society, and the failure of individuals to save for the future. Sure, congress can be blamed for robbing Peter to pay Paul with SS funds, but it was only ever intended to be a supplement to retirement.
"National Security is the chief cause of national insecurity." - Celine's First Law
As if discrimination in hiring isn't subject to "government regulations backlash".
I'm tempted to report you myself... it's not often that someone is stupid enough, even pseudononymously, to admit to a clear violation of the law in a manner that they cannot delete on a site that maintains logs...
An employer should put their money where their mouth is and hold team build during work hours.
My main talent is using tools to solve problems
Over the years, I have accumulated many tools..software development, circuit design, woodworking, metalworking, many construction skills, artistic skills and many more
I'm still getting paid very well to write software and design circuits
Young people ask.."how do you keep up on new languages?"
I answer, I program in C and C++, it's the best choice for embedded systems. Wanna talk about learning?
My latest project was on a new processor (~1900 page datasheet), a new OS, and 10-20 new components, communicating through nontrivial hardware adapters
Yeah, I can keep up with the young guys
It seems odd that they don't realize this
I haven't put dates to my educational history in 20-+ years. I haven't included employment history further than 7 years for at least that long.
Since employers aren't really permitted to ask your age (AEDA), they shouldn't until it's time for as background check, and if they are big enough they should let HR/Personnel handle that information without revealing it to the hiring individual or team.
Wow. This is an anti-discrimination class-action suit waiting for a sponsor. Forcing dates out of you is forced age disclosure, and illegal.
Illegal. And it's not even new. Not surprising though.
deleting the extra space after periods so i can stay relevant, yeah.
Go piss up a rope. I'm "older" and of course I want more money. I have decades of experience and proven performance so I'm worth it. But the rest of your argument falls apart immediately. I have no family in the city I live, where I am currently employed I am on call for troubleshooting 24/7 - and I answer the call a hell of a lot better than some younger members of our group who seem to think work is an inconvenience to the Millennial lifestyle I might add - and am absolutely up for whatever "team building" is on offer. And again I notice the Millennials tend to bug out well before the team building is in full swing.
This is either a clever troll or sad individual. Fuck your team building exercises. I do the job you pay me for, end of story.
Only the State obtains its revenue by coercion. - Murray Rothbard
So what parent actually means is that Roman Mironenko's businesses Titan Technologies and TrackEnsure (located in Ontario, CA) are, by his own admission, in violation of the section 5(1) of the Ontario Human Rights Code, which prohibits discrimination in employment.
Any unsuccessful job applicant within the last year with Titan Technologies or TrackEnsure who believes they may have not gotten the job due to discrimination because of race, ancestry, place of origin, colour, ethnic origin, citizenship, creed, sex, sexual orientation, gender identity, gender expression, age, record of offences, marital status, family status or disability is likely to win to damages and compensation.
Any person alleging discrimination in Ontario can file an Application with the Ontario Human Rights Tribunal (“HRTO”). Applicants have one year from the date of the last discriminatory incident to submit an Application.
Not coincidentally, during Reagan's first year in office, the IRS ruled that 401(k)s could be funded through payroll deductions. Also during his first term, the Tax Reform Act of 1984 ensured that if a company offered 401(k)s, they were available to all employees. Rather than "kicking it down the road," they created an incentive for people to take control of their destiny away from the government.
Not so coincidentally, companies were no longer obligated to provide pensions and Wall Street collected billions in fees from people who had no interest in playing at the casino. Unlike boring old pensions, 401(k) accounts goes up and down with the market. If the value of your 401(k) plummets 50% as it did during the Great Recession and you have to make mandatory withdrawals, tough shit. You should have saved more.
The real problem is not congress, but the common attitude of "I want it all, and I want it now" ingrained in our entitlement society, and the failure of individuals to save for the future.
Let's blame individuals for not saving enough for retirement at the casino when pensions could have easily provided for their retirement needs.
Maybe you've just had the misfortune of working with unproductive people who were unproductive when they were young too. In my experience, it's half-and-half. There's a number of folks old enough to be my father who work as long as I do and there's a number of folks younger than I am who check out at 5pm. And plenty of kids with infinite energy and old lumps just collecting a paycheck.
Since the median age is about 26, I imagine that point has come and gone.
Of course, the median age in the US is about 36, but the world median age sits at 26.
You are welcome on my lawn.
The Age Discrimination in Employment Act (ADEA) only protects workers older than 40.
- protects them from getting employment of-course.
You can't handle the truth.
I would also advise against doing business his company as well because by his own admission he hires inexperienced kids because he prefers to burn babies than hire a team of established professionals that know what they're doing.
In my experience, most "team building exercises", do involve drinking... quite a lot of it sometimes... following the preliminaries. Sometimes the preliminaries aren't so preliminary, for that matter. We have an office beer fridge for a reason, after all. And you're right. It does build camaraderie and exchange of ideas.
And really... when you're there for a third of your day 5 out of 7 anyway; it's definitely worth finding a job where you like your coworkers enough to socialize with them. I have. (And actually, a few of us were already friends before becoming coworkers.) So I don't mind at all sticking around (or popping down to the pub) for a while to do so.
Imagine all the people...
Many 401(k)s, (which are transportable and allow the owner to make choices) offer fixed income options (although for most, low fee index funds would be better), [...]
How much income does a fixed income generates in a near 0% interest rate environment? Not much. A recent Wall Street Journal article featured a 82-year-old retiree with a retirement account that's 95% in stocks because he wanted to juice the returns. Under conventional wisdom, he should have been 82% in fixed income and 18% in stocks (100 - 82 = 18). Or, since retirees are living longer and risk outliving their retirement funds, 62% fixed income and 38% stocks (120 - 82 = 38). The days of 15% interest on CDs are long gone.
https://www.wsj.com/articles/stocks-have-tripled-since-crisis-but-low-rates-are-still-squeezing-savers-1488969009
[...] and many pension plans (which the beneficiary has no control over) have gone bankrupt due to mismanagement or lack of funding.
Pension plans are covered by federal pension insurance. Who will cover the "mismanagement of lack of funding" by individuals and/or a market crash caused by Wall Street players trying to break the casino as they did in the Great Recession?
Pensions are, however, an excellent way of locking employees into the company store, as they are often structured to offer higher rewards for longer servitude.
My late father got his pension through the union. Although he worked for three generations of bricklayers for 50 years, he worked for three sole proprietorships and a corporation. The bricklayer-owners also got their pension through the union. Everyone had a comfortable retirement because they didn't have to worry about a stock market crash.
Uhh, half right. I've lived and worked in northern Ca since 1987. Age discrimination in hiring and retaining is stated as illegal. However, like many Ca laws they are either ignored or simply unenforced/worked around. I.e., they sound good but are worthless. I personally know of two lawsuits and think there is a third. In each, a group of >50yr employees went before a judge and were told that if the companies could make the case that it was cheaper to use a younger person they could ignore from hiring or fire the elder. Just a wee bit past 50 ( 7 years there) I was discharged from a local utility and spent the last 2 weeks training a younger "consultant" to do the job I was told to vacate. I was told he was cheaper, so I was gone. Even when I told new prospective employers that they would not need to cover health care expenses I was passed over for further consideration. Do companies have the right to decrease their costs? Of course. But, to expect any protection from so-called age discrimination laws is naive.