Online Job Sites May Block Older Workers (cnbc.com)

Joe_Dragon quotes a report from CNBC: Older Americans struggling to overcome age discrimination while looking for work face a new enemy: their computers. Illinois Attorney General Lisa Madigan recently opened a probe into allegations that ageism is built right into the online software tools that millions of Americans use to job hunt. Separate research published recently by the San Francisco Federal Reserve Bank found that in a widespread test using fabricated resumes, fictional older workers were 30 percent less likely to be contacted after applying for jobs. Fictional older women had it even worse, being 47 percent less likely to get a "callback." Several forces are conspiring to ensure that many Americans have to work well past the traditional retirement age of 65. People are living longer, their retirement savings are inadequate, and Social Security reforms are almost certainly going to require it. The San Francisco Fed says that the share of the older-65 working population is projected to rise sharply -- from about 19 percent now to 29 percent in the year 2060. Online job-hunting tools should be making things easier for older employment seekers, and it can. Indeed.com, which claims to list 16 million jobs worldwide, currently lists 158,000 openings under its "Part Time Jobs, Senior Citizen Jobs" category. Monster.com, which claims 5 million listings, has a special home page for "Careers at 50+." In other ways, however, online job sites can cut older workers out. Age bias is built right into their software, according to Madigan. Job seekers who try to build a profile or resume can find that it's impossible to complete some forms because drop-down menus needed to complete tasks don't go back far enough to let older applicants fill them out. For example, one site's menu options for "years attended college" stops abruptly at 1956. That could prevent someone in their late 70s from filling out the form. Madigan's office said it found one example that only accommodated those who had attended school after 1980, "barring anyone who is older than 52." Other sites used dates ranging from 1950 to 1970 as cutoffs, her office said. The Illinois' Civil Rights Bureau has opened a probe into potential violations of the Illinois Human Rights Act and the federal Age Discrimination in Employment Act. Madigan's office has sent inquiry letters to six top jobs sites: Beyond.com, CareerBuilder, Indeed Inc., Ladders Inc., Monster Worldwide Inc. and Vault.

Comments

Re:Maybe stop using dropdowns for numbers?

[Calydor]

It could be a combination of wanting every input field to look the same and wanting to severely limit bugs stemming from invalid input, as well as having to accept 1957, '57, and 57 all as the same year. A dropdown may not be the most userfriendly, but it keeps things simple.

Re:The Discrimination is about wages, not age

[theora55]

That's blatantly discriminatory and bigoted. I'm an older worker, I stay late and have a flexible schedule. I'm tired of being denied job opportunities. I should be paid fairly, but I can't get access to jobs I can do really well.

Please note: Age discrimiation in hiring is illegal.

Re:Why isn't Social Security working?

[__aaclcg7560]

In the 1930's, there was 19 workers for every retiree. In 2030, when most of the baby boomers are retired, there will be two workers for every retiree. This problem has been well known since the Reagan Administration, but politicians found it easy to kick the can down the road.

Re:Maybe stop using dropdowns for numbers?

[HornWumpus]

If only there was some way to flexibly validate strings.

We'll have to wait for millennials to reinvent something like regular expressions (and announce it's a breakthrough, never before considered technique).

Re:The Discrimination is about wages, not age

[ghoul]

It basically comes down to jealousy. The managers who are now in hiring positions and of same age as the older technical workers are Jealous of all the extra time the technical workers got to spend with their kids by not going into management. They hit back by not hiring their peers and hiring juniors who don't have families.

rampant

[Anonymous Coward]

As over 50 the discrimination is rampant.
If you're over 50 they find an excuse to get rid of you.
Everyone I know was gotten rid of with extreme prejudice at that age.

Nothing is being done about it and it is never taken up by media or the political parties and yet next to ethnic discrimination the single largest discrimination issue in this country.

I applied to many thousands of job and interviewed at hundreds before I got the handful of low paying positions that don;t even cover costs after fifty and I'm highly qualified for many types of work, am in good health, good personality, highly intelligent, and reasonable youngish looking for my age.

I can only guess it is related to healthcare costs and that most positions ask for the moon these days.

Re:The Discrimination is about wages, not age

[BarbaraHudson]

Why should someone stay for team-building exercises after hours? If the company thinks it can benefit from it, then let the company pay for the time. "Team-building" exercises are bs anyway. You really want to build a team, have the occasional meeting over lunch at the local pub. Really want to find the problems? Same thing. After a few drinks, people will say what they really think.

Re:The Discrimination is about wages, not age

[DRJlaw]

I don't need any government regulations backlash on my hands, so I try to ensure it just doesn't come to that. Hiring somebody older in the West means hiring somebody who is a more protected class (in terms of government laws) and it can be dangerous for me, as it can hurt me financially and this is where I draw the line.

As if discrimination in hiring isn't subject to "government regulations backlash".

I'm tempted to report you myself... it's not often that someone is stupid enough, even pseudononymously, to admit to a clear violation of the law in a manner that they cannot delete on a site that maintains logs...

As an old (63) guy..

[MpVpRb]

My main talent is using tools to solve problems

Over the years, I have accumulated many tools..software development, circuit design, woodworking, metalworking, many construction skills, artistic skills and many more

I'm still getting paid very well to write software and design circuits

Young people ask.."how do you keep up on new languages?"

I answer, I program in C and C++, it's the best choice for embedded systems. Wanna talk about learning?

My latest project was on a new processor (~1900 page datasheet), a new OS, and 10-20 new components, communicating through nontrivial hardware adapters

Yeah, I can keep up with the young guys

It seems odd that they don't realize this

Re:As an old (63) guy..

[jittles]

How can you create software without Ruby, The Cloud and 37 half-baked frameworks?

Joking aside, C/C++ with a good understanding of hardware and operating systems is where older engineers shine. In fact, I'd say it's one of the few areas of software development where the term "engineer" is actually warranted. Anyone can lay 1000 layers of cruft onto a fast processor, cross their fingers and hope it works. Far fewer people can work close to the hardware, with limited resources, and take it from "it boots without emitting smoke" to "here is the API to our product". I think we are already at the point where the younger engineers are doing the boring, trendy work and the older guys are doing the fun, hard work. It's easy to find a job if you can do the latter. You don't even need to learn a new buzzword every week!

Also, please get off of my lawn.

Seriously. I write drivers that other developers at my company use to create products. They have to deal with UIs and all this other boring crap. It's not always easy to do a good UI, but it's literally just looking at someone's frameworks and emulating what you see. The real fun is manipulating the hardware. The crazy thing is that a lot of these fresh college grads don't even know how to do the work. I was at the tail end of people learning low level manipulation of data. Even people with recent computer engineering degrees don't understand a lot of bit manipulation tricks. It absolutely boggles my mind.

Wow, they break all the rules for resumes...

[rickb928]

I haven't put dates to my educational history in 20-+ years. I haven't included employment history further than 7 years for at least that long.

Since employers aren't really permitted to ask your age (AEDA), they shouldn't until it's time for as background check, and if they are big enough they should let HR/Personnel handle that information without revealing it to the hiring individual or team.

Wow. This is an anti-discrimination class-action suit waiting for a sponsor. Forcing dates out of you is forced age disclosure, and illegal.

Illegal. And it's not even new. Not surprising though.

Re:The Discrimination is about wages, not age

[Anonymous Coward]

So what parent actually means is that Roman Mironenko's businesses Titan Technologies and TrackEnsure (located in Ontario, CA) are, by his own admission, in violation of the section 5(1) of the Ontario Human Rights Code, which prohibits discrimination in employment.

Any unsuccessful job applicant within the last year with Titan Technologies or TrackEnsure who believes they may have not gotten the job due to discrimination because of race, ancestry, place of origin, colour, ethnic origin, citizenship, creed, sex, sexual orientation, gender identity, gender expression, age, record of offences, marital status, family status or disability is likely to win to damages and compensation.

Any person alleging discrimination in Ontario can file an Application with the Ontario Human Rights Tribunal (“HRTO”). Applicants have one year from the date of the last discriminatory incident to submit an Application.

Re:Why isn't Social Security working?

[__aaclcg7560]

Not coincidentally, during Reagan's first year in office, the IRS ruled that 401(k)s could be funded through payroll deductions. Also during his first term, the Tax Reform Act of 1984 ensured that if a company offered 401(k)s, they were available to all employees. Rather than "kicking it down the road," they created an incentive for people to take control of their destiny away from the government.

Not so coincidentally, companies were no longer obligated to provide pensions and Wall Street collected billions in fees from people who had no interest in playing at the casino. Unlike boring old pensions, 401(k) accounts goes up and down with the market. If the value of your 401(k) plummets 50% as it did during the Great Recession and you have to make mandatory withdrawals, tough shit. You should have saved more.

The real problem is not congress, but the common attitude of "I want it all, and I want it now" ingrained in our entitlement society, and the failure of individuals to save for the future.

Let's blame individuals for not saving enough for retirement at the casino when pensions could have easily provided for their retirement needs.

Re:Wow!

[AmiMoJo]

What possible reason could there be for asking this other than circumventing rules about not asking for the applicant's age/DOB so that they can age discriminate? What relevance does the date of when you studied have?

Sites that ask for too much information are usually a waste of time. You spend ages filling it all in, only to help recruiters discriminate against you or just ignore it and send you stupid offers anyway.