Slashdot Mirror
Vibrator Maker To Pay Millions Over Claims It Secretly Tracked Use (npr.org)
An anonymous reader quotes a report from NPR: The makers of the We-Vibe, a line of vibrators that can be paired with an app for remote-controlled use, have reached a $3.75 million class action settlement with users following allegations that the company was collecting data on when and how the sex toy was used. The We-Vibe product line includes a number of Bluetooth-enabled vibrators that, when linked to the "We-Connect" app, can be controlled from a smartphone. It allows a user to vary rhythms, patterns and settings -- or give a partner, in the room or anywhere in the world, control of the device. Since the app was released in 2014, some observers have raised concerns that Internet-connected sex toys could be vulnerable to hacking. But the lawsuit doesn't involve any outside meddling -- instead, it centers on concerns that the company itself was tracking users' sex lives. The lawsuit was filed in federal court in Illinois in September. It alleges that -- without customers' knowledge -- the app was designed to collect information about how often, and with what settings, the vibrator was used. The lawyers for the anonymous plaintiffs contended that the app, "incredibly," collected users' email addresses, allowing the company "to link the usage information to specific customer accounts." Customers' email addresses and usage data were transmitted to the company's Canadian servers, the lawsuit alleges. When a We-Vibe was remotely linked to a partner, the connection was described as "secure," but some information was also routed through We-Connect and collected, the lawsuit says.
There's a bad vibe about all this...
...gis sdrawkcab (usually not responding to ACs; don't bother posting as AC)
It was just market research. Everybody does it.
Does anyone think that a person who would use a Internet of things Dildo would are about being tracked? Might even be a form of exhibitionism.
The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
IOT vibrators, what could go wrong?
Table-ized A.I.
Is there any news outlet that isn't carrying it?
Ah so it wasn't the microwave. She must of got her appliances confused and left the wrong one out. Doh
http://saveie6.com/
I get that it's creepy and all that they would be collecting this stuff, but precisely what law was being broken? Is there a statute about sex toy usage privacy?
If I can be modded down for being a troll, can I be modded up for being an orc, or a balrog?
In ages past, people had to learn not to stand where a mule might kick or step, then don't picnic on railroad tracks, then look both ways before crossing the street, then obey traffic lights. At some point it became common knowledge that electricity was dangerous if you came in contact with it, and radiation could cook you. Did you know not all TV ads are trustworthy? I knew that 50 years ago. There are simple steps you can take to make sure nobody steals your money out of the bank.
I don't think you could name a decade in the past century or even two where some nugget of knowledge about the world passes into common knowledge. Things that people would be considered stupid or illiterate if they didn't know them.
Today people should know that anything plugged into the Internet and sends data into it is subject hacked and its data stolen. Sometimes by exploit and sometimes by design. Actually people should have known that 20 years ago if not 30. Longer than that I made the decision to never ever write something in an e-mail or post to a message board (no web then) that I would be upset if it were published on the front page of next day's paper.
This lawsuit strikes me as akin to someone suing an auto maker because they didn't look both ways before crossing the street. If you don't want someone to know how often you masturbate and how, just don't put it over the 'net. M'kay?
Usage frequency broken down by demographics.
I wonder how this case relates to the "diagnostics and usage" option that many software packages ask you to enable. Did they settle just because they never presented the user with that deliberately opaque checkbox?
I recall in a reading textbook some 55 years or so ago, a plot point in a story was some kids singing a song about someone whose idea of lighting was kerosene lanterns or candles, who checked into a boarding house, got ready for bed, "... and then he blew out the gas."
Oh poor Mr. Jones, oh poor Mr. Jones
We'll never see him more,
Until we meet again some day
On that far-away beautiful shore
Point being, any environment you're not familiar with can have unfamiliar hazards, that the people living in that environment know well to avoid.
Seriously, collecting email addresses and connecting the data with that is madness. They deserve everything they get now.
But still: collecting such data in a way that does not allow to identify users is of course a treasure trove of empiric data you would NEVER get by asking people or by just thinking about the problem at hand (ha!). There is some real knowledge to gain here. It's really down-to-the-ground empiric facts that you can learn here to better serve your customers.
I fear that too often the privacy problems with this kind of data are a reason people throw this out of the window. Companies that fuck up the privacy implications here are doing things just wrong. Being able to get your feet on the ground when it comes to real usage data can be useful for everyone. It's a kind of empiric grounding that is almost impossible to get in any other way. I think we can learn an awful lot from broad data gathering, but we really need to make sure that people are not exploited personally while doing so. There's so much out there to learn and to understand and broad empiric real-world data is the best way to understand things. Just make sure that people can trust you. I fear it's almost too late for that. And I really hate that. Empiric data is the foundation of all knowledge.
Become a gynecologist. A family friend when I was a teen luckily saved me from long contemplation of that career.
-The wise argue that there are few absolutes, the fool argues that there are no probabilities.
I became suspicious when my dildo started talking to me.
did they establish the world record for time to orgasm?
I for one, welcome our new teledildonic overlords. Make America Vibrate Again!
Always assume that they're connected to the internet and spying on you.
Who put the NSA in a Christian summer camp?
I hope someone is preparing a similar class action suit against Microsoft's illegal spying in Windows 10 (and the similar updates in Windows 7/8), seeking much higher damages.
Just kidding! Actually a crime of this magnitude shouldn't be taken lying down.
"Congress shall make no law... abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press"
Someone had to say it.
Weaselmancer
rediculous.
Of course it's company policy never to, imply ownership in the event of a dildo... always use the indefinite article "a" dildo, never "your" dildo.
Paying 3.75 million for what is probably the most detailed study the industry has ever had. A team of market researchers would cost far more and yield far inferior results (even in anonymous studies, people lie and/or forget).
Today people should know that anything plugged into the Internet and sends data into it is subject hacked and its data stolen.
Granted. However, the issue here isn't that it was "hacked and stolen" - the data were used without informed consent. Was it buried in the EULA, contract, written in invisible ink? The key here is the concept in contract law that a meeting of the minds has to occur. Obviously, if people knew their masturbatory habits would be put up for sale to the highest bidder, they would have avoided this product.
I find extremely objectionable your arrogant and superior attitude vis-a-vi "what people should know", not that you'll give a single whit about that. I object to it because when you get caught with "your finger off your number" and goof up, my experience is that you're going to be screaming in supersonic frequencies about how "unfair" it all is. A little imagination and empathy isn't too much to ask of someone. And yes, I'm aware you will be indignant and angry with my observations. Not that I'll give one whit about that, either.
Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves.
"I made the decision to never ever write something in an e-mail or post to a message board (no web then) that I would be upset if it were published on the front page of next day's paper."
That's called "chilling effect". They have shut you up.
Self censorship is an effect of surveillance and it is a feature, not a bug.
I'm betting it was a natural gas light, not kerosene. You put out a kerosene lamp, it's out, that's all there is to it. Blow out a gas light and you blow up or, if you're lucky I guess, asphyxiate. You do a good job of making your point, though :)
If you don't want someone to know how often you masturbate and how, just don't put it over the 'net. M'kay?
It's quickly coming to the point where if I don't want to be tracked, I have to give up 99% of everything.
Registered my We-Vibe with the e-mail alias Wayne Tracker
Have gnu, will travel.
Dumbass, that's what Mike Van Pelt wrote. He didn't make a mistake in the post, you just have poor reading skills. Note that "...and then he blew out the gas." is in quotes in his post. Referring to the text in the literal story he read. The narrator in the story he's relating knew that it was a gas lamp, the kid that blew out the flame didn't.
I for one have to agree with AlanObject
When you go out of your way to purchase a vibrator that sends and receives data over the internet, I don't know what form of empathy you expect when you become shocked and appalled at the fact the vibrator send and received data over the internet.
I can't feel bad for someone that doesn't understand that sending data over the internet means *sending data over the internet*
That's the type of thing reserved for very small children that are still learning the ways of the world.
(A group that should not be involved with the current product of topic)
You lost the right to complain about the thing being told what to do from the internet and responding that it has done it the moment you chose to buy a device specifically advertized and sold for the purpose of being told what to do from the internet and responding that it has done it.
Take some freaking responsibility for your choices and stop pretending like you weren't informed about what would happen, when it says it right on the box.
At this point do I ask, are you posting as an Anonymous Cowards because you're lazy or because you honestly believe you're an Anonymous Coward? And would you mind at all if someone were to dox you for your post?
The idea of a "reasonable expectation of privacy" holds for a lot of situations where you could, hypothetically, be monitored. The idea of "harassment" holds for a lot of situations where you could, hypothetically, just ignore the acts of others. But we have laws in place to try to enforce privacy. And we acknowledge the harassment is an offense that can be restrained and possibly receive legal sanction if continued. It's not enough that something is possible. A large part of society and law is about what should be regardless of the possible.
Monitoring your vibrator usage or having to seriously worry the vibrator will be hacked and kill you* aren't acceptable.
* Not sure if it's even possible in the stated device, but quickly turning on/off the device might result in a short, explode the battery, etc.
Your phone is ALWAYS spying on you.
Welcome to 1984. War is peace. Lies are facts. Hate is love. Freedom is slavery. Surveillance is privacy. Ignorance is strength.
Thank you, please drive thru.
Take some freaking responsibility for your choices and stop pretending like you weren't informed about what would happen, when it says it right on the box.
Except, wait for it - it doesn't say that on the box or anywhere else
So should we expect that anytime we do anything simi-private (make a phone call, kiss your SO, talk to your doctor) that we have no reasonable expectation of having it, you know - private? Such may be a utopia for you, but I find it distressing, alarming, unconscionable and un-American.
Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves.
they now know who the biggest female wanker is. Maybe a trophy would be in order.
You are totally missing the point. The lawsuit is more akin to someone suing an auto maker because they filmed you having backseat sex using the camera that they claimed only serviced the alarm.
And yeah I'm sure if that happened you'd say "what do you expect if you buy a car with a camera in it" and ramble on about how you only ever drive a stick-shift because you don't want some damned gearbox deciding when to declutch.
Obviously you have no idea what obviously means.
This is just one device where people are tracked and the data sold. It has happened in the past and will happen in the future over and over again, till law will take action that is.
John Olliver had it right that when he did the Interview in Russia with Edward Snowed that people would not mind to be spied on, untill it was about looking at their dick pics.
This goes a bit deeper (see what I did there) than just a dic pic and that is why there aws an outrage.
Almost everything you have and that has data transfered will sell its data at one point or another if that is allowed.
People where upset when Mucrosoft was tracking everybody and everything, but no real outrage and no lawsuits. The same for every other situation till now.
So the people who decide politics (companies are people too) will change the law so it will become legal.
Don't fight for your country, if your country does not fight for you.
hey, Asshat, the internet didn't exist 30 years ago.
So explain to me how something could be "plugged into the Internet "???
hey, Asshat, the internet didn't exist 30 years ago.
So explain to me how something could be "plugged into the Internet "???
It was called the ARPAnet then. And yes I had access to a PDP8 and other systems that were "plugged into" it. And we sent messages over it. And it was realized almost instantly by many that private information could be exposed that way.
And others chose to ignore the blindingly obvious and sometimes got in trouble over it.
Pro tip: please realize that something can exist sooner than the first time you were aware of it.
I object to it because when you get caught with "your finger off your number" and goof up, my experience is that you're going to be screaming in supersonic frequencies about how "unfair" it all is. A little imagination and empathy isn't too much to ask of someone. And yes, I'm aware you will be indignant and angry with my observations. Not that I'll give one whit about that, either.
Welcome to Slashdot, where the really important thing is how smart AlanObject is and there's nothing else to discuss, because of course the world is just.
It was anonymized data. All it collected was stuff like time of day and settings; the vibrator didn't ask for your social security number, date of birth, bank account number, and names of friends!
No, this class action suit is a troubling and CLASSIC version of Americans getting all worked up about sex as well as getting money because litigation.
They collect anonymous usage stats on software and hardware constantly. his just happens to refer to sex.
Grow up, America.
-
Today people should know that anything plugged into the Internet and sends data into it is subject hacked and its data stolen
In which case no one would ever do online shopping, banking, etc.
To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it
lol
In which case no one would ever do online shopping, banking, etc.
I do all those things and more. Like doing this posting behind a pseudonym.
Unlike some, I have no illusion that my privacy with regard to those actions is absolute or in some cases not protected by law. So I always keep awareness what the consequences would be if my activities were made public with my real name. Then assess the risk of exposure at different levels.
With that awareness you can do a quick risk/benefit analysis. Then make a rational decision based on personal values. Not just charge ahead heedlessly and expect a settlement when it turns out Zuckerberg wanted marketing data on you all along.
P.S. now that you made be write the above I confess I am having difficulty as to determining what the "benefit" to me was in writing the above.
Actually you are an idiot or too lazy to read.
The vibrator does not connect to the internet. It connects over bluetooth with your own phone.
It is the app that decided (like many other apps, mind you) to send the data to the home office
While I doubt there was any malice, and quite a few of my female friends would be OK with sharing anonymous data, the fact is that the app breached the customer trust exactly the same way many other apps before (and I am sure later)
here on site there are girls?
Can I just say this isn't quite what I meant when I told you where you could take your IoT devices and stick them?