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Amazon To Expand Counterfeit Removal Program in Overture To Sellers (reuters.com)

Posted by ryuzaki0 on from the fixing-things dept.

Amazon.com is expanding a program to remove counterfeit goods from its website this spring as part of a broader push to assure brand owners that the online retailer is an ally rather than a threat. From a report: As early as next month, any brand can register its logo and intellectual property with Amazon so the e-commerce company can take down listings and potentially seller accounts when counterfeits are flagged, Peter Faricy, vice president of Amazon Marketplace, said in an interview on Monday. The so-called brand registry, which had been in a test phase, will be widely available for free in North America, Faricy said ahead of his presentation at the Shoptalk commerce conference in Las Vegas.

41 comments

  1. Why? (+6, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    All the products come from China anyway, so what's the difference?

    1. Re:Why? (+6, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Worried you're going to lose money selling counterfeit products on Amazon now?

      In case you're actually serious, products produced and sold by the original company have to go through a QA process. Usually a company does not want its brand tarnished by a bunch of defective items. Counterfeit products are either copied or they are discarded products that did not pass QA in the original factory. The ones who make the counterfeit items (or resell defective products) do not need to worry about public backlash as it's not their brand, so they don't bother with QA (as the cost of labor and discarding defective products will eat into their profits). They make their money and then move on to the next popular item they can counterfeit.

      It's also not just electronics. Perfumes and colognes sold on Amazon are notorious for being counterfeit (and other non-electronic products). They are not known for getting the scent right. Usually they water down the originals or they find some budget garbage that smells close enough and use that.

    2. Re:Why? (+6, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Because they aren't always the same product.

      eBay's VeRO program, that they've had for years and years before Amazon ever rolled up to take a swat at them, was all about giving rights owners (eg trademark owners) the ability to speedily delete counterfeits.

      The problem is that the manufacturers of luxury goods, don't want eBay or Amazon to know how "they" know when something is fake, so a lot of take downs have to be reviewed by a human, and are thus not terribly efficient, and by the time someone at LVMH or Tiffany reviews a listing, the product has already been sold.

      So what eBay does, and I imagine Amazon is going to do is basically create a trademark trigger, where say "Apple" can register the the names of things like the iPad, iPod, iPhone, etc and when a seller tries to sell a fake iPhone, or a fake iPhone charger, it gets flagged for review. This will only half work though.

      As I said at the top of the comment. They are not always the same thing.
      Counterfeit chargers are a real danger. Counterfeit batteries are a real danger. Counterfeit ink cartridges? No, not really. Counterfeit SD cards, you might damage your computer. But you're not going to burn down your house like, the "hoverboards" do.

  2. It is just a decent thing to do by mi · · Score: 4, Informative

    to assure brand owners that the online retailer is an ally rather than a threat

    Yeah... How about "because it is the right thing to do"?

    The fakes do not benefit the buyer, who is being lied to. They don't benefit the designer, who spends effort and money to create the designs, which are then copied (stolen) by the fake-makers.

    If a marketplace is not fighting fakes, it gets flooded with them to the exclusion of the real brands...

    --
    In Soviet Washington the swamp drains you.
    1. Re: It is just a decent thing to do by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's the exact same thing made in the same factory in many cases. Don't want fraudulent items, make them in your own country.

    2. Re: It is just a decent thing to do by ScentCone · · Score: 1

      Don't want fraudulent items, make them in your own country.

      You're either a (lame) troll, or utterly clueless about how quickly knock-offs are created based on nothing more than things like product photos on the designer's web site. All a knock-off company has to do is place an order for an item (and return it, later - free access!) in order to inspect it closely enough to make a sellable ripoff version. No, not every knock off (or even most of them) is made by scam artists at the factory making the original, and brand owners are increasingly able to police that since that practice became more prevalent over the last few years.

      --
      Don't disappoint your bird dog. Go to the range.
    3. Re: It is just a decent thing to do by bad-badtz-maru · · Score: 2

      In the majority of the cases, the counterfeit product is a poor quality visually-similar item. It's very rare these days that a counterfeit item comes from the same factory as the legit item.

    4. Re: It is just a decent thing to do by Kobun · · Score: 1

      Here's a recently published article as an example - https://www.forbes.com/sites/s...

    5. Re:It is just a decent thing to do by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      They let it slide because it costs money to tackle counterfeiting. Maybe they've found it's starting to negatively affect their brand and sales so now they care.

      I make sure to check negative reviews before buying anything on it and see if there are reports of items being fake. One issue isn't just the other resellers, but that they do not check the quality of the products they keep in their warehouses and counterfeit items end up coming directly from them as well. I just use it a lot less than I used to in general. I think they've gotten too big for their britches and think they can do (or in the case with counterfeit items, not do) whatever they want.

    6. Re:It is just a decent thing to do by liquid_schwartz · · Score: 1

      If a marketplace is not fighting fakes, it gets flooded with them to the exclusion of the real brands...

      Unfortunately you are spot on regarding it being flooded with fakes and no real product to be found. I first heard about this issue from my sister who told me that all the women in her office knew that you *never* buy hair products from Amazon because they are always fakes. It's an interesting data point because multiple women there had bought stuff and, from previous usage, were able to identify that these were fakes.

    7. Re: It is just a decent thing to do by known_coward_69 · · Score: 1

      maybe we'll do that and you can go back to your cultural revolution and killing each other

    8. Re:It is just a decent thing to do by Wulf2k · · Score: 1

      To a lesser extent, try ordering flash storage off Amazon.

      You can still find the real stuff, but any random person that doesn't know what the check will most likely get garbage.

  3. This will work like youtube content flagging by wbr1 · · Score: 5, Interesting
    I sell on AZ oas a 3rd party seller. I engage in something known as retail arbitrage. I find deals in stores that are better than the current price on amazon and exploit the difference for a profit. I frequent discount stores and clearances at major stores. Often I find clearance items, or at stores like Big Lots, items that are discontinued but still good, and often have an increasing profit margin online as the supply is dwindling.

    I work hard to ensure that my sources are not counterfeit, but since I primarily purchase retail, I have no wholesale distributor invoice to prove authenticity. While not abused yet, there are situations where a manufacturer or other seller will claim a seller has counterfeit items to remove that competition. With the brand registry, I see this as happening more, and small sellers will get hammered by what are essentialy NOT good faith take down notices. This can result in complete removal of a seller account, shutting down small and legitimate businesses. There are many sellers that DO abuse the system and sell counterfeit goods, but this system will not discriminate, and many of those will find other ways to skirt the rules.

    --
    Silence is a state of mime.
    1. Re:This will work like youtube content flagging by wbr1 · · Score: 1

      To be more clear - this is not an overture to ALL sellers. This is an overture to major brands that will help eliminate competition, both counterfeit and legitimate.

      --
      Silence is a state of mime.
    2. Re:This will work like youtube content flagging by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I sell on AZ oas a 3rd party seller. I engage in something known as retail arbitrage.

      Boo hoo, parasite.

    3. Re:This will work like youtube content flagging by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The program is pointless because it won't be applied to the Chinese who are listing the vast majority of counterfeits. I've reported listings with "KO VERSION" right in the fucking title and Amazon's robots replied that they didn't see the problem and therefore wouldn't take action.

    4. Re:This will work like youtube content flagging by wbr1 · · Score: 1
      So, reselling items for a profit is parasitic? Last I checked we live in a capitalist society. Personally I lean more socialist, but ya know, I have to eat - now not in some utopian future.

      But I am responding to an AC. ::Pats on head:: Next time troll harder.

      --
      Silence is a state of mime.
    5. Re:This will work like youtube content flagging by grahamsz · · Score: 1

      While what you are doing is certainly not illegal or such, it does in some cases stretch the definition of what constitutes "new with warranty".

      I work for a manufacturer and it's problematic when we get a product returned that came through a third party amazon or ebay seller because

      a) we have to deal with the return, when normally that'd happen at the retailer that originally sold it
      b) it's often hard to identify the production batch that the item came from. We can tell if we've shipped a product to Marshall's (or whatever) but if someone picks that up and flips it on Amazon and then the consumer returns it to us, we're at a loss for figuring out where it came from and if it shows a manufacturing defect then we can't know which batch it was from or which other retailers we have to notify.
      c) for some classes of products, retailers and distributors maintain different levels of heat and humidity control. If you are selling a high end face cream then you'll have to ensure it's not spending excessive time in non-climate-controlled trailers. But there's nothing stopping someone who finds a case of it that's been sitting in a storage unit in arizona for a year from listing it as "New" on Amazon.

      I suspect the right answer all round is for Amazon to do like Adorama does with camera equipment and sell "New", "Used" and "Gray Market". The latter category is stuff that's brand new but not coming through an authorized channel. In many cases consumers are just fine with that, but it also makes it clear that the seller might be the only point for warranty claims.

    6. Re:This will work like youtube content flagging by wbr1 · · Score: 1
      You bring up some good points. However, being able to track a batch is not one of them. If a manufacturer were truly interested in tracking a batch then you can implement serial or lot numbers. Even when the manufacturer or distributor sells a large lot to Marshalls, there is no guarantee that A. Marshalls stored the product correctly, or B. Identified the shipment correctly.

      Case in point if Marshalls gets a large number of returns for Widget X because of a defect, how can you be sure it came from the most recent shipment of widget x or a shipment that sate in a warehoue or store for 2 years? You cannot with any certainty - without your own manufacturing identification system.

      Storage conditions are also important, but again once it has left the factory or distributor that is out of your control, no matter who purchases it. Granted, 3rd party items are more likely to have been stored incorrectly, but that is not exclusive.

      As to returns, Amazon deals with returns all the time. If as a seller you fulfill from thier centers (IE any Prime sale), they will take the return. If a customer returns to the manufacturer instead of the store (marshalls, amazon, wherever), it is because they are making a warranty claim, and well you need to be equipped to handle that regardless of the source of the sale.

      --
      Silence is a state of mime.
    7. Re:This will work like youtube content flagging by grahamsz · · Score: 1

      I can't speak to marshalls specifically since i haven't seen their paperwork myself, but I wouldn't be surprised if we can specify storage conditions, it's not something that's unique to high end places. Still no guarantee that anyone does it, but it'll be right most of the time. A lot of discount retailers price returns into what they pay us, they just take 0.5% (or whatever is appropriate for the category) off the top and we don't don't have to handle it ourselves unless they go bankrupt or the product is flipped online and the customer reaches out to us instead of Amazon.

      As for lot codes, we can (and do) put them on packaging but it isn't really feasible to put them on the product itself. We can track product where someone has an issue with something they bought 3 months ago from a specific store and can in most situations identify 1 or 2 possible production lots that it came from.

      Some of our products have a lifetime warranty, Amazon surely aren't going to honor that for us on a gray market purchase.

      Either you've got to mandate that all warranties apply no matter the supply chain (and presumably that'd have to be done in international law) or you'll have manufacturers/brands who can set their own warranty conditions to only apply when sold through authorized channels. Amazon can't really be complicit in passing off items as "New" that don't have a manufacturers warranty. If someone falls to their death because they bought a piece of climbing equipment from a lot that the manufacturer had recalled then Amazon don't want to be the one holding the ball - who can blame them.

  4. Too little too late by xxxJonBoyxxx · · Score: 4, Interesting

    These days I treat Amazon like I treat Expedia: I use the site to find a couple of reputable-looking, US-based vendors (on Expedia, it would be hotels/airlines) who appear to be selling something at a good price, and then I go to those vendor's sites directly and order off the vendor's eComm store directly. (And if there's a price difference, I contact support before-hand and get my item priced-matched with the Amazon deal.)

    It's just not worth it to get any more Amazon "suh-plizes" since crap suppliers somehow keep getting injected in the chain. (I stopped using Expedia early on when they comingled "cannot cancel" flights/hotels with "cancellable" ones; I often want the flexibility that booking direct provides.)

    1. Re:Too little too late by Mitreya · · Score: 1

      then I go to those vendor's sites directly and order off the vendor's eComm store directly. (And if there's a price difference, I contact support before-hand and get my item priced-matched with the Amazon deal.)

      Can you elaborate or give some examples?
      I have googled for things I find on Amazon to price-compare, but in best case scenario the price is the same and shipping cost is high making it more expensive in total. Do you also get vendors to match shipping costs?

      You must be thinking of Groupon product "deals" that are usually 20% more costly than same item sold by other retailers.

    2. Re:Too little too late by xxxJonBoyxxx · · Score: 1

      Sure, here's an example.

      1) Start here with an item on Amazon. Note that it's sold by someone else:
      https://www.amazon.com/Avolusion-AVPS4HD-N2T-Playstation-Hard-Drive/dp/B0172JHDK6/ref=lp_1254762011_1_25?s=pc&ie=UTF8&qid=1490218688&sr=1-25-spons&psc=1

      2) Pull up the item on the someone else's site:
      https://www.goharddrive.com/PS4-Hard-Drive-s/235.htm

      3) Contact the vendor via their published contact information and ask them to price-match their own Amazon item (with shipping):
      https://www.goharddrive.com/aboutus.asp

      4) Buy it from the vendor.

  5. Scan your receipts by tepples · · Score: 1

    since I primarily purchase retail, I have no wholesale distributor invoice to prove authenticity.

    If your supplier is a closeout retailer, such as Big Lots or Ollie's, a scan of your receipt ought to count as a supplier invoice.

    1. Re:Scan your receipts by wbr1 · · Score: 2

      With Amazon they prefer actual invoices over retail reciepts. I do keep and scan reciepts and when cases arise for this or other reasons, the receipt is often enough, but not always. It really depends on which outsourced and undertrained worker andsweres the case.

      --
      Silence is a state of mime.
  6. Amazon needs to curate their site more diligently by AntronArgaiv · · Score: 3, Insightful

    There's a whole swarm of "sketchy" vendors on Amazon.com...I avoid them in the most part by only ordering "Prime" merchandise. But Amazon needs to take more responsibility for the quality of vendors on their site. Requiring physical address, phone number and email for all vendors and displaying it on the site would be a good start.

  7. How about they remove counterfeits from their bins by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

    Many slashdotters have posted about how Amazon mixes counterfeit memory cards into the grab bag and then proceeds to grab them and ship them to customers. Have they stopped beating their own dead horse?

    --
    "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
  8. I'm sooooooo confused. by davidwr · · Score: 1

    They admit that their removal program is counterfeit but they are expanding it anyways???

    I'm sooooooo confused.

    --
    Knowledge is how to play a game, intelligence is how to win, wisdom is knowing what game to play.
  9. Reactive PR: Amazon caught selling counterfeits by lindner · · Score: 2

    Looks like they're trying to head off a negative news cycle from this tweet from the owner of No Starch Press

    https://twitter.com/billpolloc...

    "Images of counterfeit copies of Python for Kids being sold on Amazon. Legit copies are thicker, color, layflat binding, nicer paper. @amazon"

    Also see discussion on HN:

    https://news.ycombinator.com/i...

    1. Re:Reactive PR: Amazon caught selling counterfeits by rahvin112 · · Score: 1

      Though the negative press is part of the reason the primary motivator is the threat of lawsuits by the brand products. Unlike internet and speech there aren't common carrier rules that exempt the seller from liability for counterfeit merchandise, in fact it's the opposite in the US, the seller is fully liable.

      Amazon started to get worried when some of the brands with a penchant for strong legal action against counterfeits started making inquires. These brands are typically high end retail products whose entire value is the brand itself and most of them will sue and have sued in the past. Several of them are actually responsible for Ebay's current anti-counterfeit system because several sued Ebay a few years ago. The negative press adds to the risk that a bunch of brands will get together and go after Amazon for all the counterfeit sales.

      Expect a HARD clampdown by any brand that registers with Amazon. They will probably make the system such that the Brand can complain with no evidence and the listing will be removed and the merchant account suspended. This is just Amazon's lawyers realizing the risk counterfeits present to them.

  10. How about counterfit sellers? by Lumpy · · Score: 2

    So many sellers that use the name of the company of the product they are selling that are NOT actually that company. Sorry, but SONOS is not selling Sonos speakers under the name "Sonos Speaker Depot" and they need to insta ban those users doing that crap.

    --
    Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
    1. Re:How about counterfit sellers? by TWX · · Score: 1

      No, but if I'm a depot selling only Sonos speakers, then can I not name the brand that I sell?

      It tends to get a bit fuzzy when it comes to things like Right of First Sale. I'm perfectly allowed to sell something that I own and I'm allowed to prominently display the brand of the item and what model it is. I'm not allowed to claim an affiliation with the brand, but that doesn't mean that I am required to specifically disclose anything else either.

      --
      Do not look into laser with remaining eye.
    2. Re:How about counterfit sellers? by Lumpy · · Score: 1

      No you cant. Because you are claiming you are a represenative of Sonos and you are not in any way. In fact your speakers dont even come with a warranty unless you are going to give me free replacements for 5 years because Sonos voids all warranties sold by people like you.

      --
      Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
  11. Re:How about they remove counterfeits from their b by wbr1 · · Score: 1

    Part of the problem is comingled inventory. As a seller when shipping to an AZ Fulfillment center, you have two option. Co-mingled or not. If you chose co-mingled all of the inventor for that item is mixed with other sellers of the same item. There is no uniqe sku identifying the seller. This is a great way to sneak in counterfeit items. Personally I do not sell co-mingled. This means I have to label all my items with a unique sku (or pay AZ to do so). However, this keeps other counterfeit items from slipping in when a customer orders from me on AZ.

    --
    Silence is a state of mime.
  12. Re:How about they remove counterfeits from their b by queazocotal · · Score: 1

    Is there a way for purchasers to search for non-commingled other than hoping the vendor mentions it - which seems vanishingly unlikely.

  13. Well THAT explains. . . by Salgak1 · · Score: 1

    . . . .why Amazon pulled a parody of John Scalzi's under-performing new book, "The Collapsing Empire", at the request of his publisher, Tor Books.

    Or it could be because the parody was outselling the original on Kindle. . . .

  14. Re:Amazon needs to curate their site more diligent by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The "sketchy vendors" issue has gotten very bad lately. Purchasing anything off amazon is now risky at best. The irony is that by choosing to purchase prime only goods, you're not protected. Amazon is now "co-mingling" - placing goods from all it's suppliers in the same sku bin. When someone orders a widget, amazon cannot tell you which vendor's widget you got. Bottom line is that amazon has lost the ability to determine which products are genuine / fake from customer feedback.

  15. 'Unexpected' Corporate Benefits by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    What's the penalty for false takedown claims? If there isn't a high one it'll get abused just like DMCA notices. Take down anything and everything that might harm your business. Now companies will be able to ban any user who wants to sell their used copy of a product. Bye, bye cheaper Amazon listings and small-time re-sellers. No more selling your used textbooks. I've occasionally bought Groupon package deals and sold the items I didn't want on Amazon. Such things will no longer be possible in the near future.

    Amazon is starting to kill itself and it put itself on this path by cutting corners to save a buck: storing items from different sellers in the same bins and allowing multiple products revisions (companies listing a high quality product, then switching to a lower quality build after getting good reviews) as the same product.

  16. Re:Amazon needs to curate their site more diligent by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Agree. Way too many bad vendors. One check I do is if they are new and don't have any feedback I don't buy. Also many of these new vendors offer ridiculously low prices. I have called about some with no results.

  17. Pop-up vendor by phorm · · Score: 1

    Yeah, it seems they still haven't properly deal with the issue of "pop-up vendors". These guys pop up around a special event (Boxing Day, Black Friday, etc) and sell a bunch of hot items at slightly below the others. Not enough that it's obviously a scam, but that it looks like they're offering the better deal. Then, days or weeks later when you realise you've been scammed, you get to enjoy going through Amazon's reporting process despite the fact that the vendor now had 100 people complaining that they've been sent an item from in "Canada" yet with a USPS shipping code that end in CN.

    I mean, automatic flagging wouldn't be hard here.
    * Vendor says they're in Canada: shipping = non-local shipper (USPS), FAIL
    * Vendor says they're in N America: shipping is a Chinese local shipping code (ends in CN), FAIL

    Being that we all had a similar complains and they were pretty easily shown to be a bad seller, this is definitely something that should be "testable"

    1. Re:Pop-up vendor by AntronArgaiv · · Score: 1

      I'm an old guy, and probably tend to err on the side of skepticism, but it sounds to me like that as long as Amazon gets their "cut", anything goes.

      Typical large corporation mentality, I guess.