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US Workers Face A Higher Risk Of Being Replaced By Robots (cnn.com)

There's a surprising prediction for the next 15 years from the world's second largest professional services firm. An anonymous reader quotes CNN: Millions of workers around the world are at risk of losing their jobs to robots -- but Americans should be particularly worried. Thirty-eight percent of jobs in the U.S. are at high risk of being replaced by robots and artificial intelligence over the next 15 years, according to a new report by PwC. Meanwhile, only 30% of jobs in the U.K. are similarly endangered. The same level of risk applies to only 21% of positions in Japan.
61% of America's financial service jobs "are at a high risk of being replaced by robots," according to the article, vs. just 32% of the finance jobs in the U.K. (Those U.S. finance jobs tend to be "domestic retail operations" like small-town bank tellers, whereas U.K. finance jobs concentrate more in international finance and investment banking.) The firm's chief economist sees a world where new jobs are more likely to go to higher-skilled workers, and he ultimately predicts "a restructuring of the jobs market... The gap between rich and poor could get even wider."

33 of 285 comments (clear)

  1. Machines replacing bank tellers? by fl_litig8r · · Score: 5, Funny

    You mean machines that will accept deposits and dispense cash from my accounts? That's just crazy talk.

    1. Re: Machines replacing bank tellers? by K.+S.+Kyosuke · · Score: 3, Informative

      The Moravec's paradox of jobs: the more educated jobs are more likely to be replaceable. All the worse if they're better paid.

      --
      Ezekiel 23:20
    2. Re: Machines replacing bank tellers? by wierd_w · · Score: 5, Insightful

      It makes perfect sense.

      If your working contribution costs more to automate than it takes to pay your wage, you will be safe from automation (at least until automation drives down the costs of further automation sufficiently to resolve this case).

      If your wages are on par with, or greater (amortized over time) than the costs of replacing you with automation, your job is at high risk of being eliminated to automation as a cost saving measure.

      Combined, the only "safe" class of workers are those in a situation where automation is, for some reason other than cost, unable to replace them, which is a category that gets eroded quickly due to increasingly capable robot and software designs.

      Human society NEEDS to be ready for the inevitable reality where NOBODY works, and the only people who "Make money", are those who OWN robots, or have a share in companies, and milk their investments.

      Money ceases to be an essential functional commodity in such a circumstance, as people will invent alternative methods of exchange to obtain necessary services.

      Either money has to be distributed for no labor expended by a governing body (basic income strategy), or true post-scarcity future economic models need to be created. There are no alternatives where really rich people get everything and everyone else just dies. (Sorry plutocrats, but that is how you destroy the human race, not live immortal, pampered lives.)

    3. Re:Machines replacing bank tellers? by quonset · · Score: 2, Interesting

      In other words, you have one point of failure. Power goes out, no business until the power is restored, no access to your money/accounts.

      Sounds like a great opportunity for terrorists.

    4. Re: Machines replacing bank tellers? by roman_mir · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Eat the Rich

      - there is always somebody poorer than you.

    5. Re: Machines replacing bank tellers? by DarkOx · · Score: 2

      Money ceases to be an essential functional commodity in such a circumstance, as people will invent alternative methods of exchange to obtain necessary services.

      Nope at least not until large numbers of people have so much they decided stopping anyone else from taking some if it isn't worth thinking about. We are a looooong way from such a time.

      Who knows maybe a day will come where people here on earth just sit back an enjoy free the great riches showering down upon the earth from return of the giant space harvestors their great great great great grandparents sent out to gather resources across the galaxy and beyond.

      Until there people will indeed need a form of exchange. If not some fiat currency funny money than it will be something else. The trouble is the barter system really won't work. If the capital class already has a robots to work their fields, maintain their other robots, transport them from place to place, print whatever durable goods they want, etc what exactly will you offer them in exchange?

      I don't know what the answers are and I don't know what is going to happen but it simply can't look like the world you are envisioning. It violates far to much of what little we do know about human nature and economics.

      --
      Repeal the 17th Amendment TODAY! Also Please Read http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/right-to-read.html
    6. Re: Machines replacing bank tellers? by Ol+Olsoc · · Score: 2

      I don't know what the answers are and I don't know what is going to happen but it simply can't look like the world you are envisioning. It violates far to much of what little we do know about human nature and economics.

      Note - this is not disagreeing with you, just conversation.

      And it certainly cannot look like the one we have now. If we have a world with almost no one working, we won't have anyone to buy the stuff the robots produce. A crawl to the bottom as it were.

      What is the use of a robotic assembly line that can produce widgets at half the cost of a human line, if there are only 5 percent of humanity that can purchase the widget?

      I just had a ridiculous thought of a board meeting where the suits are sitting around and one says "There is a huge untapped market for our product out there - but how do we get money into people's hands so they can buy our stuff?" The so called job creators being forced to create jobs so that someone will buy their stuff.

      Some other thoughts are that humanity might undergo a lengthy and slow contraction as people die off unreplaced. If we cannot break out of the concept of work or die, this is pretty close to what is going to happen. A Welfare state won't work if 90 percent of people are on it. Then again, neither will a capitalist or any other 'ist.

      We might get rid of them quickly though. What might start out as racial reassignment ie, "send 'em back to where they came from!" might work for a few years, but eventually all the systems will overload.

      Perhaps people will be removed from the population after reaching a certain age. Perhaps there will be forced sterilization, and only the working will be allowed to reproduce.

      I suspect however, that we will solve this the old fashioned way. With warfare. We will probably gleefully torch the earth, and let the survivors if any, pick up the pieces. At that point, the robots will be pretty moot to survival. What good are smartphones to people who have been bombed back to the stone age? As a pretty smart guy once said, "I know not what weapons World War 3 will be fought with, but World War 4 will be fought with sticks and stones."

      The glimmer of hope is that similar doomsday scenarios have been trotted out after every something something revolution, and by and large, life has been made better. Hopefully this will too.

      --
      The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
    7. Re:Machines replacing bank tellers? by matbury6017 · · Score: 2

      Hi Kjella, the calculations you've posted here don't account for fraud, i.e. copying people's banking credentials to access their accounts. What are the operating costs when we take all the various kinds of fraud that affect people's online banking?

    8. Re: Machines replacing bank tellers? by VanGarrett · · Score: 2

      Instead of money, people will trade something else. Fuck, it could be damn bottle caps for all I know. Just not money as investors consider it.

      Would such a new medium of exchange not, in turn, also be money? Sure, it might start out as something practical, like bottle caps or, indeed, precious metals, but once it starts gaining momentum, the same math that applies to the cash dollar, would then apply to your Nuka-Cola lids. Just the same, when that becomes useful for the exchange of goods and services, it's not clear to me that the rich would be hesitant to snatch that up, too. Just the same, the poor folk who acquire sufficient stock piles of these units, would likely be keen to spend them on their own automation products, just to get them up in to Rich-People-Land.

      "I'll make my own money, with BLACKJACK and HOOKERS!"

    9. Re: Machines replacing bank tellers? by BarbaraHudson · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Food and water are needs that are not going to go away. There has to be some mechanism for people to acquire these basic needs. A basic income would be a logical name for such a scheme. I wonder if anyone's ever tried it before? Oh, wait - it was tried back in the 70s in Canada and was a success.

      The only reason it was canned was because, despite the evidence to the contrary, people thought it would make people lazy.

      --
      "Transparent" is a shit show that trades on every stereotype going. A man in drag is NOT a transsexual.
    10. Re: Machines replacing bank tellers? by phantomfive · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Most people, actually, if you're sitting here surfing the net on your laptop.

      --
      "First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
    11. Re: Machines replacing bank tellers? by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 2

      Individual people can own robots too, you know.

      The same thing was said about cars and computers, yet how many individual people own those?

    12. Re: Machines replacing bank tellers? by roman_mir · · Score: 2

      Read the thread: might makes right is the argument I am objecting to. Collectivism used to provide power based on numbers. Automation and technology equalizes the odds, 10 people against 1 is not that bad if 1 has a few robots on his side.

      As to Ayn Rand, I appreciate her philosophy and writing, it is great, but I never needed it to reach my own conclusions decades ago. I only read her books a few years back after hearing so much about them. She was a great philosopher AFAIC, a pretty good writer as well, but the ideas were always here, with or without her books. As to violence - that is the argument of the collectivists, not of the individualists.

    13. Re: Machines replacing bank tellers? by ArmoredDragon · · Score: 2

      There is only one equation the human race needs to figure out in order to survive.

      Solve for Greed.

      That's never going to happen. Greed is a fundamental feature of who you are. Even if you were given everything you ever wanted, you'll eventually want more, owing to the hedonic treadmill. Saying otherwise would be like saying you can stop a person from ever having desires (even repressed ones) to cheat on their spouse.

      Every time somebody tries to solve greed, what results is a crappy system of government that makes the average person much worse off. UBI, if it were to ever become a thing, would just be yet another iteration of that.

  2. Re:better to eliminate those financial jobs by bertoelcon · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Would it kill CNN (or slashdot for that matter) to include things like references, facts, and arguments to back up conclusions?

    It would since those often don't exist.

    --
    Anything can be found funny, from a certain point of view.
  3. Re:Why not say where worker are expensive by CanadianMacFan · · Score: 2

    It's one thing to deliver a pizza, other food, or small parcel to a house where the person can come to the door easily. But currently when delivering to a large building you let the person in to bring it up to your door. If you use drones/robots/self-driving cars or some combination of them they will have to get a lot more advanced to get to that level. People aren't going to want to go down to the lobby to wait for their orders. And if you keep the person to deal with the building you might as well have them do all the work.

    Some tractors already drive mostly by themselves today. The operators handle the turns and let the tractor drive the straight part while they are able to focus on what they are doing (seeding, applying something, harvesting, ...). When they get near the end of the row the operator takes control again for the turn and repeats the process. It's the overseeing what is happening to ensure nothing is going wrong that is being automated now. The automated driving of tractors has been done already. The operators don't really have to handle the turns when in the cab but do it more out of habit.

  4. Our Future. by geekmux · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Regardless if people fight the idea or not, automation and AI decimating the concept and capability of human employment is no longer science fiction. And when US states started crying out for $15 minimum wage rates, the initial response back from corporations was to look towards automation, because that option was now worth the investment.

    Coming to the conclusion that automation and AI would target countries with higher wage costs seems to be rather obvious. The real question is what will be done to control unending Greed from turning the planet into a Welfare state.

    We keep talking about UBI, which is another concept that will become inevitable as automation and AI decimate human employment. The problem lies with funding UBI, which will likely be done through taxation. Unfortunately, corporations are some of the worst entities when it comes to actually paying taxes by employing armies of lobbyists to minimize or hide those obligations, with the end result being trillions sitting in offshore tax havens today. Since this will never change, unending Greed will all but guarantee that UBI will become nothing more than Welfare 2.0 for the masses.

    You can forget the American Dream. You can forget the Human Dream. The reality of automation and AI is a global Welfare state, all because of Greed.

    1. Re:Our Future. by DarkOx · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Coming to the conclusion that automation and AI would target countries with higher wage costs seems to be rather obvious. The real question is what will be done to control unending Greed from turning the planet into a Welfare state.

      Which will never work, UBI will never work. Why because people will never be satisfied with what they have. They will always want more. The planets resources remain limited. If its no longer a question of how hard they have to work for X; the answer to "why should I not have finer clothes, travel further faster, be warmer or be cooler, eat something nicer, etc will be that I should!"

      There may be a short era of good feels, a generation that grew up working a no longer needs to and is simply satisfied with a life of comparative ease; but their grand children will demand free super sonic airline tickers, I promise you!

      I am not going to pretend to know where any of this is headed. I don't think its UBI and I don't think its welfare state 2.0. I would be more worried about the collapse of states. You point out corporations are already paying armies of lobbyists to avoid taxes. You really think a group of top tier capital owner class types wont employ an army or robots that looks much more like the armies of the past and simply refuse to pay the taxes? What does for example Amazon need the government for once they can hire/build their own fully automated asset protection?

      --
      Repeal the 17th Amendment TODAY! Also Please Read http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/right-to-read.html
    2. Re: Our Future. by burtosis · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Don't be a moron. This has nothing to do with minimum wage possibly getting set at a reasonable number. They are going to do it either way and you know it, so stop pushing your absurd political agenda.

      The op was making the quite valid point that a reasonable minimum wage only accelerated the problem. This was brought to you by the single ruling party of the invisible hand.

    3. Re:Our Future. by BarbaraHudson · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Which will never work, UBI will never work. Why because people will never be satisfied with what they have. They will always want more.

      Which is why UBI will work. People won't just sit back and be lazy - they will want more, and will work for it. The whole "UBI will just create lazy people" meme is a lie, because people always want more.

      --
      "Transparent" is a shit show that trades on every stereotype going. A man in drag is NOT a transsexual.
  5. Re:If robots were advanced and inexpensive enough. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

    What if I could purchase a robot that could go out and earn a living for me?

    It would be just like in the USA before the civil war of secession, where you can buy and sell slaves. The rich people get access to slaves, and those slaves displace the workers who would otherwise get paid.

  6. Re:good luck with that! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

    A machine doesn't have to replace all of the things a tech can do in total, or in one machine.

    For example, a washing machine doesn't replace all the things a domestic servant did in 1900, but a washing machine, dryer, dish washer and a vacuum cleaner in total replace a significant fraction of them.

    Some machine learning algorithms actually do better than humans in some cross-correlation activities than humans, but are generally relatively specific to the task to which they are designed. This is becoming less a function of programming in the traditional sense, but more a case of selecting strategies and components and training and validation sets, although that's still a complicated task, but ironically one that can be increasingly handled by automation to select those elements and I've used genetic algorithms to select elements for machine learning tasks before.

  7. Re: good luck with that! by drinkypoo · · Score: 2

    It has been standard practice to swap modules and then send those modules elsewhere to be troubleshot for as long as I can recall. It's nothing new.

    Nobody said it was new. It is, however, becoming more common. There are still a lot of parts not wrapped up in modules which you have to replace to make repairs. That's going to change as robots do more of these jobs.

    --
    "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
  8. The high end is protected, is it? by MPBoulton · · Score: 2

    I understand and accept that jobs that rely on someone simply following a process given down by management, without needing to apply judgement or on-the-spot thinking, is a piece of very low hanging fruit for automation. Baristas, fast food counter staff, checkout/till staff in supermarkets etc. are, as we already know, all going to find their jobs disappear in the near future.

    However, many skilled jobs make use of IT systems for data analysis and calculations, where much of the setting up is still done by a squishy human on a PC in an office paid a high salary for their work and knowledge in using the system and explaining the results to clients. Many professional services firms are already automating much of the calculation and systems work to other countries, or to a computer.

    Many first world governments are actually encouraging ways to make such work more standardised and easier to automate. The UK government's consultation into the way final salary pension schemes in the UK are valued every three years is one such example, although you have to really dig into the detail of the green paper to find it:

    https://www.gov.uk/government/...

    Many of these highly paid staff will see themselves as safe from automation, but their bosses certainly don't.

  9. Incoming by fyngyrz · · Score: 2

    f you use drones/robots/self-driving cars or some combination of them they will have to get a lot more advanced to get to that level.

    If you use drones/robots/self-driving cars or some combination of them they will have to get just a tiny bit more advanced to get to that level.

    FTFY

    Look around you / do a little search engine work. We have walking robots, ramp-ascending robots, stair-climbing robots, door-opening robots, button-pushing robots, robots with internal cargo storage, robots that can navigate offices and homes. Right now.

    That stuff doesn't even have to be developed at this point, it just has to be aggregated. As the financial case has now been made to do it, it's going to happen very quickly. Within ten years, max.

    --
    I've fallen off your lawn, and I can't get up.
  10. Re: Machines replacing bank tellers? process-drive by petes_PoV · · Score: 5, Insightful

    The Moravec's paradox of jobs

    This is just another aspect of de-skilling. Since the 1990's the fad has been for people to perform "processes" rather than jobs. The idea being that so long as you adhere to the "process", all your actions will be of the same high quality as your co-irkers. Ha!

    But as soon as you are able to write down a formal description of your job, you have effectively written a computer program for doing it. So the most easily replaceable jobs will be the ones that require little judgement, little experience (esp. when there is no possibility of having to deal with exceptions) and simple interfaces to other "cogs" in the great machine.

    So if you can replace a personnel officer with a computer, then companies will do it. Just feed in the parameters for the sort of people you wish to hire. Merely give the machine stock replies to the most common workplace complaints. Give it an algorithm for employee assessment - and let it it do its thing. It won't replace the entire personnel dept. But if it can perform the mundane operations, it should considerably cut the number of actual people required to support the company.

    And it it this reduction - rather than complete replacement - of mid-level and managerial posts that is where the job losses will occur.

    --
    politicians are like babies' nappies: they should both be changed regularly and for the same reasons
  11. Re:15 years? by OrangeTide · · Score: 2

    The surface of the Earth is finite and solar power is becoming cheap and effective for mobile robotics. In 50 years I will likely not be able to afford a place where I can still see the sky. If I can't afford even that small luxury, how can I afford to live in space where I'll have to pay for air?

    --
    “Common sense is not so common.” — Voltaire
  12. Re:But remember, basic income is an unfair handout by OrangeTide · · Score: 2

    Eminent domain is supposed to be a process to consolidate property for a purpose that serves the public good. It almost never works out that way. Usually a state or local government use the laws to rip people's homes away from them and hand it over to some special interest.

    Indeed, I know I don't own my house or the land it sits on. Not only can someone file some paperwork and take it away from me. If I stopped paying my property tax for long enough, I would be removed and my house auctioned off. Private property is an illusion.

    --
    “Common sense is not so common.” — Voltaire
  13. PwC are a vested interest... by matbury6017 · · Score: 2

    Mmm... anyone think that a global accountancy firm might be somewhat biased in their reporting on this subject? The most helpful and interesting article I've found to date has been this review of a report that seems to be fairly rational: https://3starlearningexperienc...

  14. Who buys the output of the robots? by zerofoo · · Score: 4, Insightful

    In a world where no one works, and no one earns income - who is left to buy the output of the robots?

    Capitalism driven production REQUIRES consumers with disposable income. The one cannot exist without the other. To save capitalism, you need to save the consumer.

    1. Re:Who buys the output of the robots? by boa · · Score: 2

      In a world where no one works, and no one earns income - who is left to buy the output of the robots?

      Capitalism driven production REQUIRES consumers with disposable income. The one cannot exist without the other. To save capitalism, you need to save the consumer.

      Good point. Also, states need tax revenues, so they need someone or something to tax. Not much to tax if most people are out of work. AFAIK, there are no social modes suitable for the future we seem to be heading towards. This may get ugly.

  15. Tracking by fyngyrz · · Score: 2

    I have a statement every month that tells me what and where I've spent my money. I can also use those purchases to show where I was at at the time if need be.

    Mmm-hmm. Well, if you can't keep track of your spending, I suppose that'd be a reason to want to have others do it for you. I don't have that problem, personally, so it's difficult for me to emphasize with your use case. As for needing to show where you were... who do you need to show this to? The very fact that you think you need to show it to someone is worrisome, and speaks more to the problem than any solution.

    Why would you worry about your purchases being tracked?

    Because the government thinks it's perfectly okay to directly violate the constitution that authorizes its existence, that's why. Because the government is trying to look at the people's persons, houses, papers and effects without warrants, that's why. Because the government will, if given a chance, interfere with personal and consensual choices it has absolutely no ethical reason to concern itself with, that's why. Because the government runs a system of unjust gulags, driven by a manifestly corrupt legal system, which one should avoid with great care, that's why.

    --
    I've fallen off your lawn, and I can't get up.
  16. Re:An increase in potential by __aaclcg7560 · · Score: 2

    The great news there for us technical folk is that if 20 programmers are working today, you can be sure they will need 40 in a few years to clean up the mess the 20 left.

    Maybe, maybe not. High Frequency Trading is losing its luster and might be on the way out.

    http://www.investopedia.com/news/high-frequency-trading-flash-boys-losing-steam/