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Prominent Drupal, PHP Developer Kicked From the Drupal Project Over Unconventional Sex Life (techcrunch.com)

An anonymous Slashdot reader writes: Last week the Drupal community erupted in anger after its leader, Dries Buytaert, asked Larry Garfield, a prominent Drupal contributor and long-time member of the Drupal and PHP communities, "to leave the Drupal project." Buytaert claims he did this "because it came to my attention that he holds views that are in opposition with the values of the Drupal project." A huge furor has erupted in response -- not least because the reason clearly has much to do with Garfield's unconventional sex life. [Garfield is into BDSM, and is a member of the Gorean community, "a community who are interested in, and/or participate in, elaborate sexual subjugation fantasies, in which men are inherently superior to women."] Buytaert made his post (which is now offline) in response after Larry went public, outing himself to public opinion. Buytaert retorted (excerpt available via TechCrunch): "when a highly-visible community member's private views become public, controversial, and disruptive for the project, I must consider the impact [...] all people are created equally. [sic] I cannot in good faith support someone who actively promotes a philosophy that is contrary to this [...] any association with Larry's belief system is inconsistent with our project's goals [...] I recused myself from the Drupal Association's decision [to dismiss Garfield from his conference role] [...] Many have rightfully stated that I haven't made a clear case for the decision [...] I did not make the decision based on the information or beliefs conveyed in Larry's blog post." TechCrunch columnist Jon Evans goes on to "unpack" the questions that naturally arise from these "Code of Conduct conflicts."

42 of 656 comments (clear)

  1. While its not my cup of tea by Revek · · Score: 5, Insightful

    It seems like they don't practice what they preach. Sounds like SJW idiocracy. Their security guy must be a real closet case. As in preachy/crazy

    1. Re:While its not my cup of tea by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

      "Sounds like SJW idiocracy." Not really, it sounds like someone in charge didn't like the bad PR that public knowledge of a risque sexual proclivity by one of their higher-ups MIGHT possibly bring.

      It's far apart from "SJW" when someone in a position of power is censoring people's lives outside of the workplace. That would be far more typical in corporate cultures than activist cultures.

      It all kind of hinges on how Larry's alternative sex life actually became public knowledge. If Larry didn't advertise, this is an authoritarian overreach.
      If Larry DID advertise, it's much more of a gray area, in terms of a workplace or organization where people interact professionally.

    2. Re:While its not my cup of tea by elrous0 · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Yeah, I thought it was funny at first too. But when people start having their livelihoods destroyed for even conventional political or social deviations from the orthodoxy, I tend to stop laughing.

      --
      SJW: Someone who has run out of real oppression, and has to fake it.
    3. Re:While its not my cup of tea by K.+S.+Van+Horn · · Score: 5, Insightful

      The female equivalent of Larry Garfield's particular sexual interests would be a woman who was a dominatrix. Would you be calling it "tolerating intolerance" to allow a dominatrix to be a Drupal contributor? Would you insist that if a female contributor were found to be a dominatrix, she must be forced out of the project? Would you justify it by telling her, "Sorry for not tolerating misandry"?

    4. Re:While its not my cup of tea by elrous0 · · Score: 5, Insightful

      A person who has lost his or her job and been blackballed from an entire industry over their personal political or social beliefs isn't just a "pseudo-victim." They're a very real one.

      --
      SJW: Someone who has run out of real oppression, and has to fake it.
    5. Re:While its not my cup of tea by angel'o'sphere · · Score: 2, Insightful

      It is actually embarassing enough that people that 'think about' / 'write about' or even 'fight for' equality and human rights get defamed as SJWs ... and that in a country that invented the term 'political correctness' ... just my thoughts.

      Is it realy so hard to live and let live with out putting 'brand' labels on other people?

      --
      Cost free eBook I read (by iBook/Kobo/Amazon/ObookO/Gutenberg etc.): "The Green Odyssey" by Philip Jose Farmer.
    6. Re:While its not my cup of tea by AutodidactLabrat · · Score: 1, Insightful

      Looks like someone hates being called to account for being a dick
      Because, honestly, that is all the Social JUSTICE workers ever do

    7. Re:While its not my cup of tea by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      A person who has lost his or her job and been blackballed form an entire industry over their personal fantasies...

      FTFY

    8. Re:While its not my cup of tea by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

      And yet when women do it they get high fives for being strong and independent. Truth be told, at least his kink involves just subjugating women that are into it rather than subjugating an entire gender the way that typical American women do it.

    9. Re:While its not my cup of tea by I'm+New+Around+Here · · Score: 4, Insightful

      So black business owners can discriminate against white employees and customers, because historically it was only the other way?

      --
      If you think I voted for Trump because of this post, you're wrong. I voted for Dr. Jill Stein of the Green Party. Again.
    10. Re:While its not my cup of tea by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Wrong, the only people who use the term SJW are cast as bigots and racists because it's easier than admitting that the SJW movement is itself bigoted in the extreme.

      Never mind that most of the SJW mindlessness involves representing people that never asked to be represented and doesn't even attempt to consider what we think should be done about problems facing us.

      But, if it helps special snowflakes like you sleep better at night, I suppose that's not going to stop.

    11. Re:While its not my cup of tea by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

      But it's just fantasy. Are confederate Civil War re-enactors to be vilified, even if they don't share those views?

    12. Re:While its not my cup of tea by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      If your sex life involves subjugation of a sub-class of people anywhere, in this case women generally

      Notwithstanding the "victimstance" which of which privilege so bitterly complains (on which point I agree with you) ... Mr Garfield's sex life does not involve subjugation of women generally. However seriously the Goreans like to take themselves, it involves acting out the subjugation fantasies with a particular subset of consenting women who similarly get their rocks off from playing this game. Women who, no less than the man in question, have every right to pursue their sexual fulfillment. The Gorean discourse, much like the 'female supremacy' discourse within branches of femdom, should be understood, not as serious social analysis, but as a prop to fantasy. Until Goreans move from getting each other's rocks off to implementing their fantasies as social policy that discourse need not concern the rest of us.

      This is political alright. It's good old-fashioned kink shaming!

    13. Re:While its not my cup of tea by dbIII · · Score: 2, Insightful

      No, it's not new. Americans have been acting like this for a long time with all that puritan outrage bullshit despite being the land of commercial sleaze.

    14. Re:While its not my cup of tea by cayenne8 · · Score: 5, Insightful
      So, if he'd been gay, it would have been ok, right?

      But just because his sexual proclivity is into BDSM and some wild fantasy stuff....it isn't ok?

      Seriously...why do they draw a line at one thing and not another?

      As long as both are legal activities, why should someone be fired for whatever gets them off in the bedroom AFTER they leave the workplace?

      --
      Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.........
    15. Re:While its not my cup of tea by haruchai · · Score: 1, Insightful

      "People thought Tim Allen was crazy for joking to Jimmy Kimmel that being even a moderate conservative in Hollywood was starting to feel like being a Jew in 1930's Germany. But he wasn't just shooting his mouth off. One of the first things the Nazis did with Jews was ban them from most employment"

      And also imprisoned on false charges.
      Tim Allen was convicted on the very real charge of smuggling cocaine and got his sentence reduced by ratting out on his closest associates.
      Less than 3 yrs later, he was a free man. There a a lot of dead Jews who never got a chance at such a sweet deal.
      He stopped using his birth surname a long ago but he's still a Dick

      --
      Pain is merely failure leaving the body
    16. Re: While its not my cup of tea by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Insightful

      If you mean Brendan Eich, it's not the same thing at all.

      He absolutely should have been dropped like the hot potato he is.

      He wasn't privately enjoying his own sexual preference. He wasn't even publicly and openly enjoying his own sexual preference. No one could fault him for that, but that's not what he did.

      He was actively contributing to a campaign to deny other people the right to marriage. He put his money toward bigotry. He tried to force his kink on everyone else.

      Now, I'm sure some of you would be fine with the idea that a CEO contributing to, for example, the KKK, is completely irrelevant, but it's really not. And contributing to Prop 8 is morally equivalent to contributing to the Klan.

      If this guy was contributing to a campaign to make Gorean relationship the only acceptable form of marriage, drop kicking him out on his head would be the right thing to do. But he was enjoying his own kink with other consenting adults. He was NOT trying to enforce his kink as law like Eich was.

    17. Re: While its not my cup of tea by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

      We're just in a weird transitionatory state. Women just finally starting to have a voice. Weird edges cases like this will get more voice than they should. Sex is weird, what turns people on varies. As long as he found someone else in an agreeable consenting position, I don't see what the issue was. Sounds like he screwed up keeping his personal life seperate from his professional. That can be difficult for someone not in a committed relationship and could happen to anyone. I feel sorry for him :(

    18. Re: While its not my cup of tea by Zero__Kelvin · · Score: 2, Insightful

      If you haven't learned the lesson that there are times when being a dick is called for, you will.

      --
      Guns don't kill people; Physics kills people! - John Lithgow as Dick Solomon on Third Rock From The Sun
    19. Re: While its not my cup of tea by UsuallyReasonable · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Believing that the definition of marriage that prevailed for 2000 years shouldn't be changed is not the same as not liking gays, as has been pointed out so many times that I can't believe I need to say it.

      Why what this guy does in his off hours is any of Drupal's business is a mystery to me. Are they going to investigate all of their employees' personal lives for PC conformity?

  2. So to sum up by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Insightful

    It's wrong for (white) men to subjugate women, demean them, or harass them in the office.

    Except if you are into BDSM involving fantasies of sexual slavery of women. Or you're a muslim. Or non-white.

    Got it.

    1. Re:So to sum up by Austerity+Empowers · · Score: 3, Insightful

      It's wrong for (white) men to subjugate women, demean them, or harass them in the office.

      Yes, period.

      Except if you are into BDSM involving fantasies of sexual slavery of women. Or you're a muslim. Or non-white.

      What you do on your own time with willing participants is your deal. Don't assume all, most or many people you interact with are willing participants. Acting out your sex fantasies on strangers usually gets you in trouble, not sure why this would be any different except less trouble.

    2. Re:So to sum up by elrous0 · · Score: 5, Insightful

      What you do on your own time with willing participants is your deal. Don't assume all, most or many people you interact with are willing participants. Acting out your sex fantasies on strangers usually gets you in trouble, not sure why this would be any different except less trouble.

      He wasn't fired for talking about his sex life. He was fired because he was participating in sexual roleplay that offended the SJW orthodoxy.

      If this guy had been talking about transsexual/gay/bi-sexual BDSM , the same people who fired him would be cheering him on and calling him brave for being so open about it.

      --
      SJW: Someone who has run out of real oppression, and has to fake it.
    3. Re:So to sum up by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Most BDSM practitioners align "SJW". These are conservative values that kicked him out.

  3. Crazy by markdavis · · Score: 5, Insightful

    >Buytaert claims he did this "because it came to my attention that he holds views that are in opposition with the values of the Drupal project. [...]in which men are inherently superior to women."]

    This is crazy. Who cares about his sex life? Aren't we above that type of thing??? Besides, such role-playing sex fantasy has nothing to do with men being "superior" to women, in fact, it is often the other way around and still has nothing to do with "real life".

    This is not a social club or religion, it is a set of computer program tools. It would be difference if his CODING or PROJECT philosophy ran contrary to the the group, because that is actually related to the project. Even then there should be some amount of tolerance.

    I abhor some of the political correctness going around, but generally I am intolerant of intolerance. Hopefully others in the Drupal project agree.

    1. Re:Crazy by jwhyche · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Exactly. Who cares about his sex life? If getting wrapped in leather and hog tied with a butt plug up his ass is his thing, more power too him. I don't see how anything happening inside his bed room is any of any ones' business.

      Just remember the safe word is "hurt me mama."

      --
      I read at +2. If your post doesn't reach that level I will not see or respond to it.
    2. Re:Crazy by St.Creed · · Score: 5, Insightful

      The way I read Larry Garfield's statement is that he's into Dom/Sub relationships, and his club is as well, and the whole thing is mainly a roleplaying thing for him. I'm pretty sure you also have people in the club that take it way to serious, and probably a lot of sexist assholes too, but the same thing has been true for AD&D or gaming communities as well.

      Given the pretty thoughtful nature of Larry's post, and how easy it is to claim a few snippets out of context and paint someone as a mass murderer (or worse, as someone involved in nonstandard sexual activity) I'd go a bit slower on this. I think the Drupal leadership could have been taken in by someone with an axe to grind, someone who doesn't know a thing about BDSM to begin with, abhors the concept, and then found some quotes he could use to hit the victim over the head with. I've seen this happen before in small, close-knit circles. Overreaction is common due to the shock of someone being different from what you thought.

      Lord knows I'm not into BDSM, and certainly not a supporter of misogynist fucktards, but this feels way to much like the witch hunt versus gays or pedophiles to me. People had better be pretty careful before they damn someone based on some internet quotes taken out of context. They might regret it later when things become clearer.

      --
      Therefore, by the (faulty) logic you're using, you're just a cow with a keyboard - osu-neko (2604)
    3. Re:Crazy by BarbaraHudson · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I have no problem whatsoever sitting down with people who think transsexuality is totally unacceptable.That includes a big chunk of my immediate family. I just don't let their problems with it get into my head. So things are okay. They don't tell me to change my views, and I don't tell them to change theirs. That's what mutual respect is all about. If you can only tolerate views that agree with yours, your one intolerant sone-of-a-bitch.

      People have the right to disagree with you. And you have the right to call them ignorant fuck-tards. See how it works?

      --
      "Transparent" is a shit show that trades on every stereotype going. A man in drag is NOT a transsexual.
    4. Re:Crazy by xtal · · Score: 5, Insightful

      If males are the submissive partner, there's no problem. When it's women, there's a problem. That's the "issue" here.

      --
      ..don't panic
    5. Re:Crazy by lgw · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Well put. Tolerance is a lost art among those who speak most about it, it seems.

      --
      Socialism: a lie told by totalitarians and believed by fools.
    6. Re:Crazy by bankman · · Score: 3, Insightful

      If males are the submissive partner, there's no problem. When it's women, there's a problem. That's the "issue" here.

      No, that this is the issue is the problem.

      --
      I feel so sig.
  4. SJW purges in full swing now by elrous0 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    They got Colin Moriarty a couple of weeks ago at Kinda Funny Games too. Trump's election has produced a SJW hysteria where even conventional conservative views are no longer tolerated anywhere in the tech/entertainment industry in particular (or Silicon Valley/Southern California in general). Everyone not fully embracing the SJW agenda is being purged from their jobs. This poor guy got fired just for participating in sex roleplay that the SJW's don't like.

    --
    SJW: Someone who has run out of real oppression, and has to fake it.
    1. Re:SJW purges in full swing now by OrangeTide · · Score: 3, Insightful

      BDSM is a conventional conservative view now?

      Did I just pull a Rip Van Winkle?

      --
      “Common sense is not so common.” — Voltaire
  5. Right back at ya by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    "when a highly-visible community member's private views become public, controversial, and disruptive for the project, I must consider the impact"

    I guess you'll be resigning now then.

  6. Re:SJW only allow missionary position by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

    No, to an SJW all penetration is rape.

  7. Would femdom be OK? by FrankHaynes · · Score: 4, Insightful

    What if a male employee/contributor were into being dominated by women? Would that be OK?

    --
    slashdot: A failed experiment.
    1. Re:Would femdom be OK? by lgw · · Score: 3, Insightful

      It isn't about BDSM. It's about his beliefs in the hierarchy of men and women - i.e., that men are evolutionarily superior and predisposed to lead; women are happiest as slaves or at least subjugated to men. Nobody cares less about the whips and chains, we've all tried spanking.... things...

      Is this going to be the D&D moral panic all over again? One can roleplay things one does not actually believe. Heck, whoever invented the AD&D take on Drow was doing both sorts of roleplaying simultaneously - how's that for efficiency.

      --
      Socialism: a lie told by totalitarians and believed by fools.
  8. Real Question: Consensual or Non-Consensual? by sehlat · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Binary Solution Set

    If Consensual, it's nobody's business but the participants, and certainly not the business of the project.

    If Non-Consensual, call the police.

  9. On the bright side... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Well, on the bright side, this tells me to stay far, far away from the Drupal project and anything it produces. They're far more interested in pushing their political agenda (or virtue signalling, at least) than putting out quality software, which is a rather massive strike against trusting their code, particularly in an era where security is so important and many are willing to go to extreme lengths to achieve their political goals.

  10. WTF? by Opportunist · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Why the fuck would I care about a developer's sex life? Who gives a shit how he fucks as long as he doesn't fuck up the code he delivers?

    --
    We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
  11. Oh how far we've come by don_combatant · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I remember the days when it was republicans and conservatives discriminating against people because of their sexual preferences.

  12. So fucking what? (Literally). by jcr · · Score: 5, Insightful

    So the guy's a pervert: does that mean his code quit working? Is he trying to fuck other contributors? Has he done anything to anyone without their consent?

    I've worked with plenty of people in my time who are into things that I don't approve of, from voting for socialists to trying to be Heinlein characters, but if they don't bring it to the office, it's none of my business. That goes double for an open-source project where they're donating their work.

    Enough with the goddamned neo-puritans. There's work to be done, for fuck's sake.

    -jcr

    --
    The only title of honor that a tyrant can grant is "Enemy of the State."