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Bill Would Stop Warrantless Border Device Searches of US Citizens (cnn.com)

Senators Ron Wyden and Rand Paul as well as Reps. Jared Polis and Blake Farenthold have introduced legislation that would require law enforcement to first obtain a warrant before they can search our electronic devices when we enter the United States. From a report: A new bipartisan bill would prevent Americans' electronic devices from being searched at the border without a warrant, a response to an increase in such electronic searches. The bill would require a warrant before agents could search Americans' phones, laptops and other devices at entries to the US, including airports and border crossings. "Americans' constitutional rights shouldn't disappear at the border," Wyden said in a statement. "By requiring a warrant to search Americans' devices and prohibiting unreasonable delay, this bill makes sure that border agents are focused on criminals and terrorists instead of wasting their time thumbing through innocent Americans' personal photos and other data."

19 of 128 comments (clear)

  1. Somebody should make Bill the POSTUS. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Funny

    Sounds like a guy I'd like to drink beer with!

  2. huh - how did we get to this point? by rogoshen1 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    i thought there was a much, much older 'bill' that already covered this?

    1. Re:huh - how did we get to this point? by rogoshen1 · · Score: 2

      okay well this is one of those situations where the letter and spirit of the law differ drastically. The bill of rights was created specifically to curtail this kind of bullshit (and what the TSA and similar agencies are now doing)

      The fact that we'd need a bolted on bill to reinforce the fucking constitution is just absurd. the founding fathers would be spinning in their graves over how far the government's overreach has gotten.

    2. Re: huh - how did we get to this point? by bigpat · · Score: 3, Insightful

      So we can dispense with constitutional rights as long as we declare US soil not to be US soil for the purposes of that particular constitutional right?...

      The rule of law is untenable when so easily tossed aside when inconvenient to the government.

    3. Re:huh - how did we get to this point? by david_thornley · · Score: 2

      I believe the original purpose of the Constitution was to spell out what the Federal government can and can't do, which contradicts this. Either the Feds are permitted to run Gitmo under Constitutional principles, or they aren't permitted to run it at all.

      Congress has the responsibility for making laws about border control, and the President has the responsibility of carrying them out. That doesn't mean border control can legally violate the Constitution.

      --
      "When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
  3. One of two things will happen by cdrudge · · Score: 4, Insightful

    "Americans' constitutional rights shouldn't disappear at the border,"

    One of two things will happen:

    1. Customs inspection will be moved from US soil to foreign soil if it wasn't already there. There. Problem solved. Your constitutional right never disappeared at the border because you never crossed it.

    2. You'll be asked to consent to search your device/property. Those that consent will be searched and allowed to go on their merry way if nothing is found. Those that don't consent will be redirected to holding pen where at minimum a lengthy process will commence to obtain a warrant. Best case, you lose a few hours, miss your connecting flight, and are now on a watch list for suspected activity which will increasingly delay future entrances. Worst case, you're never heard from again.

    1. Re:One of two things will happen by El+Cubano · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Customs inspection will be moved from US soil to foreign soil if it wasn't already there. There. Problem solved. Your constitutional right never disappeared at the border because you never crossed it.

      I don't think that this would hold up. There are US laws which apply to US citizens overseas. For example, if you live and work abroad as a US citizen, you still owe taxes to the federal government (usually offset by some amount of taxes you have paid to the foreign country in which you live work, subject to any tax treaties that are in effect). Also, if you travel overseas, for example, to engage in prostitution with minors the US government can prosecute you on your return. If the government exerts the force of law in such manner over its citizens for things they do outside the country, then they would have to likewise respect their rights as citizens even when they are outside the country. Of course, I wouldn't put it past the government to try something like what you are suggesting. But I would also expect the ensuing court challenges to be successful.

  4. How is this currently legal? by reginaldo · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I don't understand how this isn't currently the law. By seizing and searching my cellphone and social media accounts, law enforcement officers are basically searching my property on a server somewhere in the world, and using that to determine whether I have or will commit a crime. Can law enforcement agents go through my home without a warrant if I am trying to pass the borders? What is the difference between my digital and physical property? Regardless, it is doubtful that this bill will pass any time soon given the current state of congress.

    1. Re:How is this currently legal? by JaredOfEuropa · · Score: 2

      Also, what about non-Americans? Citizens and aliens don't have the same rights, privileges or obligations by law, but in most normal countries, foreigners enjoy the same protection as citizens when it comes to law enforcement. Foreigners might receive a bit more scrutiny, but the same rules apply. Or should, at least.

      --
      If construction was anything like programming, an incorrectly fitted lock would bring down the entire building...
    2. Re:How is this currently legal? by tindur · · Score: 2

      You can avoid this by travelling to some other country.

    3. Re:How is this currently legal? by LeftCoastThinker · · Score: 2

      What, you mean now that the fascist progressives are in the minority across the federal government? Note that this bill didn't get passed in 8 years under Obama, 2 years where the Dims had the house, senate and presidency, 4 years where they had the majority in the senate.

      Pull your head out of wherever and realize that this bill is being sponsored and actually has a shot at passing because the Republicans are now running the show. They want smaller, less intrusive government for as many people as possible.

      --
      If you disagree, please post your argument. (-1, Overrated) isn't your personal censorship tool for views you don't like
    4. Re:How is this currently legal? by mrchaotica · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Also, what about non-Americans? Citizens and aliens don't have the same rights, privileges or obligations by law...

      This is a common misconception, at least when it comes to the Bill of Rights. Most of the amendments in it are not written to declare that "citizens shall have X right;" instead, they are written that "the US Government shall not infringe upon X right that the people have." In other words, the Bill of Rights presumes that the rights in question a priori exist as natural rights and prohibits the government from doing anything that violates them. Since non-citizens are a subgroup of "all people," and since non-US territory is a subgroup of "everywhere," the government is just as much prohibited from infringing the rights of foreigners or committing extraterritorial acts of infringement as it is for infringing the rights of US citizens on US soil.

      That's the theory, anyway. Unfortunately, the CBP, TSA, and other TLAs are doing all sorts of unconstitutional shit and the Supreme Court apparently can't be bothered to stop them.

      --

      "[Regarding the 'cloud,'] ownership was what made America different than Russia." -- Woz

    5. Re: How is this currently legal? by bigpat · · Score: 2

      Good points. Perhaps ceding that non-citizens have no rights is not the right starting point.

      Government should get a warrant.

      Government should also respect people's right to privacy and end all drug prohibition so most searches are not needed in the first place and won't find any "contraband" being smuggled. But that is another discussion.

    6. Re:How is this currently legal? by darthsilun · · Score: 2
      Nowhere in the Bill of Rights does it say that it applies only to citizens, e.g.
      ... the People...
      ... no person...
      ... the accused...

      It has always been my understanding that it applies to everyone that is here. If you come here from Canada and do something illegal, you still get a speedy trial (by jury) and a court appointed lawyer if you need one. If you're Swiss, the police don't get to search your house without a warrant. If you're Japanese, the government can't insist that you go to church on Sunday or swear an oath on a Bible. If you're Brazilian, the military can't quarter troops in your house.

      And it also applies to how the U.S. government interacts with Americans traveling abroad. The CIA can't arrest me or search me without a warrant when I'm traveling outside the U.S. My constitutional rights don't magically stop at the border.

      As such I don't subscribe to the notion that there's some magic No Man's Land at the border where our rights are suspended. But IANAL, and no doubt some nattering nabob of negativity will jump in with an acerbic reply telling me that I'm mistaken. So even though I don't often agree with Rand Paul, Blake Farenthold, and others of their ilk, I'm happy to see this sudden outbreak of common sense on their part and I support their attempt to instill some clarity into this area of the law.

  5. The government won't enforce this new law either by zerofoo · · Score: 4, Insightful

    If the government isn't willing to recognize the protections of the 4th amendment, why would the government recognize the protections of this new law?

  6. Re:The government won't enforce this new law eithe by Gilgaron · · Score: 3, Informative

    My understanding is that the current precedent is that the fourth amendment doesn't apply at the border. With a new law explicitly dealing with this border situation, any precedential mushy interpretation of the fourth is irrelevant. If they write it tightly, the justices won't have a way to creatively interpret it, either. We'll see how it goes...

  7. The bill would stop it? by Trailer+Trash · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Unlikely. If you want to actually stop it, the behavior has to be criminalized - you know, like they do for any law that doesn't involve government workers.

    It needs to simply be "Searching an electronic device at the border or anywhere within the US without a warrant shall be a class ___ misdemeanor punishable by a fine of up to $____ and/or up to 1 year in jail. It shall also create a civil cause of action with damages of at least $10,000 per incident, with each device being a separate incident. No government entity shall indemnify against any such liability."

    That's how you actually stop it. It's really not difficult, although I'm sure the border patrol would have a cow. Not that I care what they think.

  8. Re:The government won't enforce this new law eithe by Dare+nMc · · Score: 2

    > the current precedent is that the fourth amendment doesn't apply at the border.

    It applies to US citizens at the boarder. EFF is a bit tongue in cheek when they call it a constitution free zone. The current ruling (as I understand) is that crossing the boarder is probable cause and because it is needed to perform the governments constitutional right to secure our boarders inspecting possessions is allowed.

    That they extended that to searching records, held in devices. And that they can hold even citizens for a couple days and impose a fine if they do not unlock devices when they cross... is a big stretch to the rules in my opinion.

  9. Customs officers are seriously fucked up. by Pig+Hogger · · Score: 2

    I once crossed into the US in a tiny crossing, way out in the woods.

    As we were 4 hours into a 12 hours drive, we stepped out of the car. Since we were the only car, all the officers were out, one for each occupant of the car.

    I was wearing a fanny pack, and “my” officer asked me what’s in there. “My money and papers and keys” (back then, we did not need passports to go in the US). But I handed him the pack, and he looks at the wallet, then hits the small change compartment. While he was running his finger through the coin, he made the face that you expect from an old pervert would do while sniffing out used japanese schoolgirl panties. The only thing that wasn’t there were the drooling sounds, but maybe I didn’t hear them because I wasn’t really paying attention for that kind of thing

    These creeps are seriously fucked-up in the head.