Slashdot Mirror


Wolves May Be 'Re-Domesticating' Into Dogs (sciencemag.org)

sciencehabit quotes a report from Science Magazine: It happened thousands of years ago, and it may be happening again: Wolves in various parts of the world may have started on the path to becoming dogs. That's the conclusion of a new study, which finds that the animals are increasingly dining on livestock and human garbage instead of their wild prey, inching closer and closer to the human world in some places. But given today's industrialized societies, this closeness might also bring humans and wolves into more conflict, with disastrous consequences for both. To find out how gray wolves might be affected by eating more people food, Thomas Newsome, an evolutionary biologist at the Deakin University in Melbourne, Australia, and his colleagues examined studies of what's happened to other large carnivores that live close to people. Newsome's 2014 study of a dingo population in Australia's Tanami Desert showed that the wild dogs' habit of dining almost exclusively on junk food at a waste management facility had made them fat and less aggressive. They were also more likely to mate with local dogs and had become "cheeky," says Newsome, daring to run between his legs as he set out traps for them. Most intriguingly, the dumpster dingoes' population formed a genetic cluster distinct from all other dingoes -- indicating that they were becoming genetically isolated, a key step in forming a new species. Is this happening to gray wolves? The conditions are ripe for it, says Newsome, noting that human foods already make up 32% of gray wolf diets around the world. The animals now mostly range across remote regions of Eurasia and North America, yet some are returning to developed areas. The paper has been published in the journal Bioscience.

61 of 95 comments (clear)

  1. It's nice to be the apex predator by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    But given today's industrialized societies, this closeness might also bring humans and wolves into more conflict, with disastrous consequences for both

    How could that have "disastrous" consequences for humans? If a group of wolves say inflict a few deaths on humans (nothing like the numbers from say boating accidents let alone road deaths) then the wolves will be wiped out. That may be a shame or even a tragedy but the potential disastrousness from conflict here is only for the wolves.

    1. Re: It's nice to be the apex predator by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      I don't know how true it is. But studies have been done that say wolves are definitely good for the environment. The help keep the elk population in check.

      I would think that wolves would stop hunting if they have found a constant food source though such as a garbage dump. They would just become a menace.

    2. Re:It's nice to be the apex predator by fluffernutter · · Score: 1

      When you play a game like Jenga, do you say "I don't see how this tower could fall" every time you pull out a piece?

      --
      Laws are rules for the court, but merely a bottom bar to hit for life. Think beyond laws in your actions always.
    3. Re:It's nice to be the apex predator by Knuckles · · Score: 1

      Humans, not humanity. "If a group of wolves say inflict a few deaths on humans" it IS disastrous for said humans

      --
      "When I first heard Daydream Nation it quite frankly scared the living shit out of me." -- Matthew Stearns
    4. Re:It's nice to be the apex predator by MillionthMonkey · · Score: 1

      But given today's industrialized societies, this closeness might also bring humans and wolves into more conflict, with disastrous consequences for both

      How could that have "disastrous" consequences for humans?

      I should introduce you to my next door neighbor.

  2. Obligatory by K.+S.+Kyosuke · · Score: 3, Funny

    It happened thousands of years ago, and it may be happening again

    So bark we all!

    --
    Ezekiel 23:20
    1. Re:Obligatory by Ol+Olsoc · · Score: 1

      It happened thousands of years ago, and it may be happening again

      So bark we all!

      Especially the cheeky dingos!

      --
      The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
  3. Failed logic by CptLoRes · · Score: 1

    The domestication into dogs was the result of introducing wolfs into society from when they where puppies and active breeding. Just having wolfs living closer to humans won't domesticate them, just like birds and other animals that practically like on top of us aren't domesticated.

    1. Re: Failed logic by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Oh my God are you dumb. WOLFS? Active breeding with what .. other WOLVES? Birds don't domesticate so I don't know what drugs you are on man..

    2. Re: Failed logic by ChrisMaple · · Score: 2

      There are several breeds of dog that look not much different from wolves, such as German Shepherd and Husky. People aren't greatly scared by German Shepherds in most cases. Wolves already cross-breed with domestic dogs and many people own the hybrids as pets; some people own wolves as pets.

      Fear of wolves is taught or the result of an attack; it's not inherent in human nature.

      --
      Contribute to civilization: ari.aynrand.org/donate
    3. Re: Failed logic by ChrisMaple · · Score: 2

      It'd called selective breeding. A group in Russia has domesticated foxes https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_Domesticated_Red_Fox using selective breeding. I'd guess that domestication of wolves by selective breeding would be even quicker because wolves are more social than foxes.

      --
      Contribute to civilization: ari.aynrand.org/donate
    4. Re:Failed logic by Ol+Olsoc · · Score: 1

      The domestication into dogs was the result of introducing wolfs into society from when they where puppies and active breeding. Just having wolfs living closer to humans won't domesticate them, just like birds and other animals that practically like on top of us aren't domesticated.

      They are talking about the genetic isolation part of evolution. You are correct about the final steps of becoming domesticated dogs.

      If I know people, and I do, there will likely be a wolf rescue, and in some number of generations, we'll have fully domesticated wolfdogs. We do have semi-domesticated wolves already, a few in my neighborhood, just not ones from dumpster diver variety. Gorgeous critters.

      --
      The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
    5. Re:Failed logic by MightyMartian · · Score: 2

      The secret to producing a dog is to encourage continued juvenile behaviors; neoteny. A wolf is actually a pretty useless pet, while they are a social animal, they are high strung and unreliable. However, as likely happened the other times wolves have been domesticated, those wolves who are a little less high strung, who can form even a marginally stronger social bond with humans, will be tolerated, whereas the wilder members will either be killed or driven off. And really, it actually only takes a few generations for a canid to essentially be domesticated: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...

      Now obviously this experiment is to intentionally domesticate a canid, but the fact remains that encouraging neoteny doesn't actually seem that hard, and so long as a wolf could prove to be of some use, and is tolerated, there's at least a chance of domestication. And so far as I understand the molecular data, it suggests this has happened multiple times. As well, there is still gene flow between wild canids and domesticated dogs to suggest that the process might even be shorter these days.

      --
      The world's burning. Moped Jesus spotted on I50. Details at 11.
    6. Re: Failed logic by Hognoxious · · Score: 1

      Birds don't domesticate? Colonle Sanders disagrees.

      --
      Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
    7. Re: Failed logic by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 2

      many people own the hybrids as pets; some people own wolves as pets.

      The number of people killed (often including the owners) by these "domesticated" wolves likely exceeds the number killed by wild wolves. Keeping a wolf as a pet is a really bad idea. In a wild wolf pack, only the alpha male and female reproduce. So a wolf has a genetic imperative to eventually challenge the alpha, and take over the pack. If you own a wolf, you are the alpha, and one day, possibly when you are sick or injured and the wolf senses your weakness, your "pet" is going turn on you.

      "Domesticated" wolves will seek opportunities to escape, and since they don't have the hunting skills of wild wolves they may be driven by hunger and lack of fear to hunt humans. Some "pet" wolves have killed dozens of people.

      Good advice on wolves from XKCD.

    8. Re:Failed logic by Hognoxious · · Score: 1

      Will some domesticated dogs go feral and become dogwolves?

      --
      Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
    9. Re:Failed logic by Hognoxious · · Score: 1

      If we did the same thing with wolves wouldn't we just be reinventing dogs?

      I do like the idea of a pet fox, though.

      --
      Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
    10. Re:Failed logic by Ol+Olsoc · · Score: 1

      Will some domesticated dogs go feral and become dogwolves?

      They can if they haven't been too messed with by breeding. A Pug or Bulldog is going to have problems. From what I understand, natural breeding of feral dogs tends to bring them back in a few generations to the archetype known as the long-term pariah morphotype. This resembles the original dog breeds which are a subspecies of wolves, so they aren't likely to "re-wolf".

      The Dingo is a pretty good example of this.

      The long-term pariah morphotype of dogs is probably good to keep around, because we have a tendency to really screw up breeds, and they can be relied upon for their hybrid vigor.

      --
      The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
    11. Re: Failed logic by queBurro · · Score: 1

      Here's a study of 30 years of dog attacks.http://www.dogsbite.org/dog-bite-statistics-study-dog-attacks-and-maimings-merritt-clifton.php There's a definite problem with keeping a hybrid wolf as a pet but compare the figures to keeping a pit bull.

      --
      sag
    12. Re: Failed logic by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 1

      Pit bulls are way more common than "pet" wolves or hybrids.
      So it is no surprise that there are more pit bull incidents.
      Pit bulls are selectively bred to be vicious, so comparing wolves to pit pulls isn't much of an endorsement.

    13. Re:Failed logic by Hognoxious · · Score: 1

      Interesting. I knew that feral pigs start to look like wild boar within a few generations but I wasn't aware of a similar thing with dogs.

      --
      Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
    14. Re:Failed logic by deadweight · · Score: 1

      These dogs are all over the third world. The "feral reversion" dog has pointy ears, short-medium fur, and weighs around 50 pounds. Also see Australian and Carolina dingoes.

    15. Re: Failed logic by Talderas · · Score: 1

      Such animals are vermin and not domesticated. They are wild animals that live within proximity to humans which carry with the negative effects. In the case of pigeons their poop is a health hazard. In the case of wolves you would increase the probability of attacks on humans as well as them potentially hunting potentially easier prey like actual domesticated animals such as chickens, pigs, or cows. A wolf in this circumstance is no different from a coyote.

      --
      "Lack of speed can be overcome. In the worst case by patience." --Znork
  4. I would choose a buffet over foraging any day by kimgkimg · · Score: 1

    I think they're just being smart. Why have to forage when you have an all-you-can-eat buffet in your backyard?

  5. This isnt domestication, by dywolf · · Score: 4, Insightful

    and it wont result in dogs 2.0

    It wasnt just proximity to humans that cause the first domestication event in wolves (or really, several parallel events), but conditions that also resulted animals with less aggression, which was then amplified by captive breeding.

    this event isnt structured to provide that reduction in aggression.
    but it will provide an increase in guile.

    this isnt dogs 2.0
    this is coyotes 2.0

    --
    The guy who said the election was rigged won the presidency with the second-most votes.
    1. Re:This isnt domestication, by BarbaraHudson · · Score: 1

      Epigenetics can do the job, just as wolves that seek out human contact are also already predisposed to be less aggressive to begin with. I'd take one as a pet. They're more intelligent than dogs.

      --
      "Transparent" is a shit show that trades on every stereotype going. A man in drag is NOT a transsexual.
  6. These people don't get around much by Trax3001BBS · · Score: 2

    Alaska, Bears will enter a bus to eat workers lunches.

    Deer, suburbs are entering their area so they have to raid what they can till captured as someone will call about them.

    Yellowstone, Bears have entered cars through windows forcing people to exit while it searches for food.

    One doesn't feed or allow animals to find a source of food or they will make it a habit.

    1. Re:These people don't get around much by ChrisMaple · · Score: 1

      Claiming that for deer a certain area is theirs is just silly. Deer, like most animals, will breed to limit of the food supply and predation, and expand the area they inhabit to get more food or just by purposeless roaming. Deer will repopulate an area that has been open farmland for a century if it's reforested.

      --
      Contribute to civilization: ari.aynrand.org/donate
    2. Re:These people don't get around much by BarbaraHudson · · Score: 2

      3 bear cubs got themselves locked in a park outhouse. Rangers can't figure out how hat happened. Guess that the old question "Does a bear shit in the woods?" needs to be answered "not necessarily" now.

      --
      "Transparent" is a shit show that trades on every stereotype going. A man in drag is NOT a transsexual.
    3. Re:These people don't get around much by PPH · · Score: 1

      Rangers can't figure out how hat happened.

      Simple, actually. Building codes in Canada encourage (require?) the installation of door handles instead of knobs. But bears have figured out how to operate the handles to gain access to the soft, chewy goodies inside. Mom probably opened the door and the cubs walked in.

      --
      Have gnu, will travel.
    4. Re:These people don't get around much by PPH · · Score: 2
      --
      Have gnu, will travel.
    5. Re:These people don't get around much by Hognoxious · · Score: 1

      Looks like a fraternity prank to me.

      --
      Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
    6. Re:These people don't get around much by BarbaraHudson · · Score: 1

      No, Canadian building codes don't require any such thing. Don't know where you got that from. Maybe because the city of Vancouver (known as La-la land to the rest of the country) banned door knobs in new construction in 2014, but then again, it's Vancouver. They live in a different world.

      --
      "Transparent" is a shit show that trades on every stereotype going. A man in drag is NOT a transsexual.
    7. Re:These people don't get around much by BarbaraHudson · · Score: 1

      I was thinking maybe a hunter illegally killed the mother, then lured the cubs into the outhouse (maybe by throwing his lunch in there) before making off with the body. The cubs have to be hand-fed, they're that young.

      --
      "Transparent" is a shit show that trades on every stereotype going. A man in drag is NOT a transsexual.
    8. Re:These people don't get around much by PPH · · Score: 1

      Canadian codes don't require it as of yet. But other municipalities and the federal body responsible for codes are "open to considering the measure".

      Don't know where you got that from.

      From the article I linked.

      but then again, it's Vancouver. They live in a different world.

      Vancouver is to Canada as California is to the rest of the USA. They are a bunch of clueless, stoned hippies. But sooner or later, whatever they do starts to seem like a good idea to everyone else. And so the rest of the country follows.

      --
      Have gnu, will travel.
    9. Re:These people don't get around much by BarbaraHudson · · Score: 1

      Vancouver is to Canada as California is to the rest of the USA.

      Wow, please look at a map. Vancouver is a city, not a state, territory, or province.

      --
      "Transparent" is a shit show that trades on every stereotype going. A man in drag is NOT a transsexual.
    10. Re:These people don't get around much by PPH · · Score: 1

      Vancouver is a special snowflake, just like California. Geopolitical terminology doesn't matter when they are going to get their way or throw a hissy-fit.

      --
      Have gnu, will travel.
    11. Re:These people don't get around much by BarbaraHudson · · Score: 1

      It's not that special any more. Large sections are empty because people bought condos as investments instead of to live in, creating an urban desert. Throw in the rain, and the smog, and the drugs, and the traffic, and the sky-high cost of housing, and you're better off on the mainland.

      --
      "Transparent" is a shit show that trades on every stereotype going. A man in drag is NOT a transsexual.
  7. Only because humans are stupid. by Lumpy · · Score: 1

    People are too fucking lazy to buy a proper garbage can that is animal proof, they also think feeding the wildlife is helping. The problem is the education level of the population has continued a downward spiral and will only get worse.

    --
    Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
  8. the dumpster dingos by edxwelch · · Score: 1

    Am I the only one that thinks "the Dumpster Dingos" would be a good name for a band?

  9. Re:Should be exterminated by ChrisMaple · · Score: 1

    "Meant" by whom?

    It'd be better if the virus that is humanity got wiped out and nature was allowed to flourish.

    You first.
    "Better" by what standard?
    Your attitude is an excellent illustration of why environmentalists are bad for people.

    --
    Contribute to civilization: ari.aynrand.org/donate
  10. Re:Should be exterminated by BarbaraHudson · · Score: 1
    The dog who shares my home is certainly meant to be owned. It's my first dog ever that wasn't a huge brute that would have been quite capable of surviving in the wild, and at 5 kg he's not really able to defend himself against much. But he's funny, he's always happy to be with me, and he gives me a reason to get outside for a walk 5x a day. Symbiotic relationship where we both benefit.

    ( ... though he mostly acts like he thinks he owns me, and considering that I'm the one who has to pick up his poop ...)

    --
    "Transparent" is a shit show that trades on every stereotype going. A man in drag is NOT a transsexual.
  11. Re:Should be exterminated by peragrin · · Score: 1

    You should live in Beijing were people who hate the environment live.

    The EPA made sure we have clean clear air, clean water, etc. As a business will only do what is profitable for them. If they can make more money posioning their own workers they will. See every single environmental catastrophy.

    The EPA makes polloution expensive. And creates new business opportunities.

    Your attitude is why a business will take every thing you have leaving nothing for your kids. 95% CV hance that it will be a medical company too.

    --
    i thought once I was found, but it was only a dream.
  12. No problem by JustOK · · Score: 1

    As long as they don't start thinking digital watches are a good idea.

    --
    rewriting history since 2109
  13. Re:Should be exterminated by Ol+Olsoc · · Score: 1

    Unsafe to own. All should be wiped out

    http://q13fox.com/2017/04/03/3...

    Oh gee, a dog bit someone! Using your logic, there wouldn't be many animals left on earth.

    --
    The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
  14. Re:What do you expect? by Hognoxious · · Score: 1

    The population growth of people is growing exponentially

    The growth is growing exponentially? Fucking rubbish. Learn to math.

    --
    Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
  15. Story of Life by hcs_$reboot · · Score: 1

    When a male dog meets a female wolf ...

    --
    Slashdot, fix the reply notifications... You won't get away with it...
  16. Re:Should be exterminated by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 1

    Any dog can bite.

    Plenty of dogs bite, but they rarely bite their owners.
    This kid was mauled by his own "pet".

  17. People Abandoning the Human 'Niche' by TheRealHocusLocus · · Score: 1

    Wolves' domestication is merely a step towards occupying the niche that has been held by humans over the past couple thousand years, which people are now abandoning as they increasingly begin to act like animals. I attribute this to the rise in 'furry' culture and animal avatars in Second Life, and the whole 'horse schlong' thing.

    People have also been observed repeatedly making swiping motions on their smartphones to navigate endless Javascript scrolls on social media platforms like Facebook, which is a re-emergence of social grooming habits. When the cell networks finally go down we will drop our phones and instead resume picking fleas off each other, while the wolves take our places in industry and commerce.

    --
    <blink>down the rabbit hole</blink>
  18. Re:Should be exterminated by wisnoskij · · Score: 1

    Not that I am saying that this is a fair sampling. But typically when you hear about pit bulls killing things those things are its owners and owners children.

    --
    Troll is not a replacement for I disagree.
  19. a hybrid coyote/wolf is happing too by FudRucker · · Score: 1

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?...
    Documentary: "Meet The Coywolf"

    --
    Politics is Treachery, Religion is Brainwashing
  20. Re:PERHAPS YOU MISSED THE KEY PART by Hognoxious · · Score: 1

    Perhaps that dead wolf on his head is controlling him?

    --
    Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
  21. They looked in our windows by swb · · Score: 1

    ...and saw a cousin lounging on the couch and they want in on that.

  22. Just "wolves"? by Locke2005 · · Score: 1

    My personal theory is that domestic dogs evolved from coy wolves, a cross between coyotes and wolves that are quite smart, adaptable, opportunistic... and have little fear of humans. Modern coy wolves appear to be attempting to interbreed with domestic canines. Like Captain Kirk, the obviously have no qualms against dating outside their own species.

    --
    I've abandoned my search for truth; now I'm just looking for some useful delusions.
  23. Re: Should be exterminated by Ol+Olsoc · · Score: 1

    Imagine if it was a gun that shot someone.

    xD

    That's different.

    --
    The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
  24. Re: Should be exterminated by BarbaraHudson · · Score: 1

    I take him out often just as much for my own health as his - though when it's snowing or raining he refuses to go. It's a great way to meet people who share the same interests - or at least one interest. Having to retire early (which sux), it gives me something to do (that doesn't suck so much).

    But every hour? We're out for up to an hour or more each time (bad weather excepted), so forget it. 4 hours a day is enough. I get my 10,000 steps in, and he (with those tiny legs) gets his 70,000 steps in.

    --
    "Transparent" is a shit show that trades on every stereotype going. A man in drag is NOT a transsexual.
  25. Re:PERHAPS YOU MISSED THE KEY PART by rmdingler · · Score: 1
    INdeed. Man walks into a bar with a frog on his head.

    Bartender raises his eyebrows and says, "What's the deal with that?"

    The amphibian replies, "I don't know. it started out as a wart on my arse."

    --
    Happiness in intelligent people is the rarest thing I know.

    Ernest Hemingway

  26. Want to stop this efficiently? by SEE · · Score: 1

    It can be done pretty easily -- let people kill any wolves that come into populated areas, like they used to be allowed to do. The wolves that survive will be those that fear people and stick to the wilds.

    And it's not like it would actually endanger the wolves -- the IUCN listing for them is Least Concern. The "Endangered Species Act" listing of them as "endangered" merely indicated they were rare in the lower 48 states; Canada, Alaska, Russia, and China have plenty.

  27. Ahh, bullcrap. by Velox_SwiftFox · · Score: 1
    First, it's patently absurd to predict the "redomestication" of wolves based on studying the behavior of dingoes, domesticated dogs gone feral and now often mixed with other dog breeds.

    Second, the dependence on human garbage that the researchers posit is a fantasy of theirs. Wolf population density maps with their prey population density, not the garbage dump count.

    If "normal", natural apex predators are desired, controlling their own numbers as apex predators do and avoiding humans sharing their habitat, being wary enough to be reliably safe, then wolves should simply be left alone to be wolves whenever possible, problem individuals and packs dealt with.

    Making their packs bigger with nonbreeding adults and protecting huge territories with prey populations large enough to be sustained, their population controls, aren't going to work with wolf seasons tattering and decimating the wolf packs, and they'll be bred into the equivalent of coyotes, it will simply be easier for them to survive as small packs and pairs, and useless to depend on other pack members that will disappear. Just comparing the reproduction rate in Wisconsin and Michigan shows they adapt to humans giving a new breeding pair territory by killing a couple of wolves in a large pack instantly by moving in and adding their own litter, doubling the pups per adult wolf in that pack's former territory.

  28. Pet Wolves by n329619 · · Score: 1

    coming soon to your local pet store.

  29. Re:Should be exterminated by Nephandus · · Score: 1

    FTR, those usually aren't pit bulls. They're just called that after the biting (and once such is claimed it'll be reported around more than other breeds). Kinda like the false claims of introverts being serial killers because even the most ridiculously extroverted people are suddenly retroactively called "quiet" and said to've "kept to himself", even by friends and acquaintances very actively involved with the sudden hermit. It's misreporting triggering over-reporting. It doesn't help when people try to train one as an attack dog by being jackass or specifically use the breeds for dog fights.

    Genetic testing of shelter dogs in certain regions prove most "pit bull mixes" in those regions have no identifiable pit bull genes at all. Can't find that exact link now, but it was amusingly reminiscent of HR's expertise and actual good-hire stats. Apparently, this is a general trend, according to this.
    http://www.nathanwinograd.com/...

    --
    "A soft answer turneth away wrath. Once wrath is looking the other way, shoot it in the head."