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Celebrating '21 Things We Miss About Old Computers' (denofgeek.com)

"Today, we look back at the classic era of home computing that existed alongside the dreariness of business computing and the heart-pounding noise and colour of the arcades," writes the site Den of Geek. An anonymous reader reports: The article remembers the days of dial-up modems, obscure computer magazines, and the forgotten phenomenon of computer clubs. ("There was a time when if you wanted to ask a question about something computer related, or see something in action, you'd have to venture outside and into another building to go and see it.") Gamers grappled with old school controllers, games distributed on cassette tapes, low-resolution graphics and the "playground piracy" of warez boards -- when they weren't playing the original side-scrolling platformers like Mario Bros and Donkey Kong at video arcades.

In a world where people published fanzines on 16-bit computers, shared demo programs, and even played text adventures, primitive hardware may have inspired future coders, since "Old computers typically presented you with a command prompt as soon as you switched them on, meaning that they were practically begging to be programmed on." Home computers "mesmerised us, educated us, and in many cases, bankrupted us," the article remembers -- until they were replaced by more powerful hardware. "You move on, but you never fully get over your first love," it concludes -- while also adding that "what came next was pretty amazing."

Does this bring back any memories for anybody -- or provoke any wistful nostalgic for a bygone era? Either way, I really liked the way that the article ended. "The most exciting chapter of all, my geeky friends? The future!"

58 of 467 comments (clear)

  1. I miss software that works. by mcmonkey · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Any old 8 or 16-bit software from decades past, if we have any of that software around today, it still works. And all we'd need to run it was the appropriate hardware.

    Software you buy today, might not work in 6 months. It almost certainly, like 99.99% certain, won't work in decades. And if it even works today as you buy it, it only works when it can connect to some authorizing server. So we have no idea, literally no idea what is required for current software to run. You have the software, the hardware, an internet connection, and some mysterious something out there on the other end of the wire.

    So what do I miss? I miss software that works.

    1. Re:I miss software that works. by Rosco+P.+Coltrane · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Hmm, I think memory is failing you here. I clearly remember many, many programs randomly crashing and taking the entire OS with it - and losing hours of work in the process, having to fiddle with hi memory and extended memory in DOS for hours to get some half-assed program to work, installing version after version of certain buggy drivers and goofing around with interrupt jumpers to get a somewhat stable system, etc etc etc. And the worst thing was trying to figure it all out on my own, without any internet forum to help me out.

      It was fun at times, but mostly frustrating. I sure ain't missing those days...

      --
      "A door is what a dog is perpetually on the wrong side of" - Ogden Nash
    2. Re:I miss software that works. by Rosco+P.+Coltrane · · Score: 3, Interesting

      No, I'm saying software back then was buggier than it is today overall - either shoddily coded, taking certain OS settings for granted, or using undocumented system calls - in an environment where any old rogue program could do anything it wanted or take down the entire system. Anybody who remembers software working better back then remembers wrong.

      Incidentally, to the credit of Microsoft, Windows was a masterpiece of backward compatibility for a long time, considering the amount of badly coded 16-bit and 32-bit shit programs it had to run properly.

      --
      "A door is what a dog is perpetually on the wrong side of" - Ogden Nash
    3. Re:I miss software that works. by rtb61 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Memories, WTF, what I miss most is digital freedom. The POS state of affairs with corporations and governments spying on everyone all of the time is fucking bullshit. Can not trust hardware, can not trust software, can not trust the network, is has all become a digital steaming pile of bullshit. Digital rights is a joke foisted upon as by the pigopolists, rather than being the rights of individuals and their digital freedom, it is the right of corporations to fuck over individuals, this fucking shit has got to stop!

      --
      Chaos - everything, everywhere, everywhen
    4. Re:I miss software that works. by mykepredko · · Score: 3, Informative

      And yet, your complaints are all hardware related.

      No, Rosco's complaints are regarding a computer system that wasn't [fully] defined.

      "High" and "Extended" memory were two different things that resided in the same space. "High" was up to 384k that resided above the 640k standard memory limit. "Extended" memory was additional memory which also resided above the 640k standard memory limit but was paged and could be much larger than 384k. Some programs could access additional "High" memory while others accessed "Extended" memory.

      Things got more complicated when you had to make allowances for the BIOS memory that may take up the entire top 128k (IBM and other PCs with GWBasic) or 64k or, in some limited cases 8k as well as video memory that took up different spaces depending on whether or not a monochrome or colour adapter (or both) was installed and how much memory space they took up as well as whether or not they had their own BIOS chips. I worked on a few systems that had less than 64k available in this space which meant that "High" memory was basically useless, but you maybe able to get some value out of "Extended" memory for some applications (like Lotus 1-2-3). '286 PCs could simulate High and Extended memory with very buggy drivers.

      Then there were the IO port and interrupt selection switches and often you would have to deal with hardware that used interrupts which were already "allocated" (which meant they were listed as having a specific meaning in the "IBM Technical Reference Manual") and then redefine how other hardware interfaced to the processor. Sometimes you might have driver code which chained the interrupt handlers, allowing multiple devices to request interrupts on the same line.

      At the time students and other young'uns were given the task of configuring PCs and we usually had a book listing the configuration of the various options of different people's PCs and what they were running along with the PC tech refs and adapter manuals - it was department level IT and incredibly frustrating when a new version of software came in, somebody wanted to add a card (for a scanner, CD drive, new display, etc.) which meant figuring out the new memory, IO port and interrupt configuration and updating and testing the machine.

      NOT good times.

    5. Re:I miss software that works. by lucm · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I sure ain't missing those days...

      Me either. I'll take a 2.7GHz i5 with 16GB of RAM over a 4.77 MHz 8088 with 64KB anytime.

      Agreed. I remember the days before the ZIF socket. You'd put in a new CPU and either bend a pin, or worse, applied just a tiny bit too much pressure, and the computer wouldn't boot because something had cracked on the motherboard.

      Or you'd install a big software package that came on a bunch of floppies; only one of the floppies would be bad and the whole thing would be useless.

      No I don't miss any of that.

      --
      lucm, indeed.
    6. Re:I miss software that works. by dwywit · · Score: 2

      Well, when your application software is allowed to talk directly to hardware, there's going to be some less than desirable results.

      OTOH, people got a *lot* of work done using programs like Wordstar, WordPerfect 5.1, Lotus 1-2-3, dBase III/IV, and so on.

      --
      They sentenced me to twenty years of boredom
    7. Re:I miss software that works. by justthinkit · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Progress has never been connected to one generation of hardware over another.

      I worked on an amazingly elaborate and Internet-preceding...TRS Model III BBS.

      I did all kinds of things on 8088s. And 80286/80386s. And 486s, Pentiums, K9, Core 2's & quads. etc.

      At no time did I wish I was only working with one generation of machine. Or one era of software, for that matter.

      Celebration is all about "what were you up to". I've always been up to all kinds of things, and computers of all eras simply helped me do that.

      The Internet routes around dictators and control freaks.

      Geeks route around crap hardware and/or software.

      If you want to celebrate something, celebrate computer geeks. If it wasn't for several generations of them, we all wouldn't be having this ole chat.

      --
      I come here for the love
    8. Re:I miss software that works. by grumbel · · Score: 2

      Any old 8 or 16-bit software from decades past, if we have any of that software around today, it still works.

      You are kind of ignoring the gap that existed back then between computer architectures. All your C64 programs wouldn't work on an Amiga. You couldn't read the data that you saved on 5.25" floppies in your 3.5" drive either. Each new computer generation essentially meant that you had to start all your computing from scratch, neither programs nor data could be carried over. The easy data transfer via USB or the Internet just didn't exist back then.

      It took decades until we had working emulation and data formats and media that you could make work between different computer architectures.

      Also if you just stick to the same hardware and OS, your software will still keep running even in the modern day. Windows XP might no longer be supported, but it runs just as fine as an old Workbench on an Amiga. There is some software that wants to be online activated, but patches for that exist in most cases and it's not that big of a deal unless you try to play a MMORPG where most of the computation happens server side.

    9. Re:I miss software that works. by Waccoon · · Score: 2

      While my Amigas had their problems, I never had anywhere near as many issues with those computers as I have today.

      For example, I've had the same installation of OS 3.0 on my Amiga 1200 for the last 25 years. It still works every time I boot it up, and never bitches about having to do maintenance service or does mysterious things in the background. I did copy the OS installation to a new hard drive without modifying anything, and the OS didn't scream at me to retype a license key or otherwise accuse me of piracy. Hell, most of the OS was on a ROM chip, but you could still patch it to the latest version by running the latest "setpatch" executable. The OS didn't needlessly touch or write files every second, so if a crash did happen, it wouldn't leave you with corruption or force you to do a complete filesystem check like Windows and the Mac did.

      I recently recaped the A1200 motherboard, and everything still works as well as the first day I bought it. I still use it regularly, and recently dug my A1000 out of storage for restoration. To hell with nostalgia syndrome -- they're still as enjoyable as I remember, and I still love them to bits.

      I used Windows at home once Commodore bit the dust, and used Macs extensively at my school. They were never the same, and they just got worse and worse over time, especially after Win2K. Even Linux, which always sucked, has never gotten to the point where is "just works".

    10. Re:I miss software that works. by klubar · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Memory protection is not a new invention...

      Many computers from more than 20 (or 30, or 40) years ago had memory protection. Even some of the PDP-8 with it's 12 bit words had memory protection and could run effective cloud computer (aka, timesharing) back in 1973. Lots of other machines of that era including the PDP-11 had memory protection. In addition, many of the mainframes had memory protection and would run VMs in their own memory space (VM370, and I think some of the 360). You could even run VMs in VMs down 10 levels deep.

      Now you kids get off my lawn.

    11. Re:I miss software that works. by grimr · · Score: 2

      Actually, the 384k at the top of the 1meg address space was called the upper memory area (UMA). Confusingly enough the commands to load things there were called LOADHIGH and DEVICEHIGH, most likely because the high memory area wasn't "invented" when these commands were created.

      The high memory area (HMA) was the first 65520 (65536-16) bytes past the 1meg normal address space. It's 16 bytes less than 64k because the segment used to address it was FFF0. The program would have to turn on the A20 address line to address this memory and turn it off after. The reason for this is that some BIOS code expected the memory to wrap at 1meg like it did on the 8086. Eventually DOS could make use of this area as well for it's own code and data.

      Extended memory (XMS) was the stuff above 1meg. Unfortunately you had to copy data between extended memory and conventional memory which slowed things down. Because of this some programs used a trick of the 386. Someone noticed that the Intel documentation for the 386 said to set the segment limits back to 64k before switching from protected mode back to real mode. Why would you need to do this when the hardware could have enforced this? Turns out you didn't need to do it. You'd then be in real mode with 4GB segments instead of 64k segments. Any 32 bit instruction could then access all memory in the system. My favourite name for this mode was unreal mode as it's a word play on real mode.

      Then there was Expanded Memory (EMS) which was an add in board for the 8086 which paged extra memory into a 64k window in the upper 384k address range. On a 386 system you could emulate this using extended memory by using the page tables for those programs that needed it.

  2. What I miss about computing of yesteryear by Rosco+P.+Coltrane · · Score: 5, Insightful

    No sonofabitch was trying to monetize my data, watch what I do on my computer or online (when there was an online to speak of), or force-feed me advertisement.

    --
    "A door is what a dog is perpetually on the wrong side of" - Ogden Nash
    1. Re:What I miss about computing of yesteryear by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Word.

      I miss the days when every computer on the market was YOURS after you bought it.

      About now someone will chime in with "but just do this...", and that's all true, but doesn't matter to the vast majority of the public who are not techies.

    2. Re:What I miss about computing of yesteryear by TapeCutter · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I didn't really notice the people trying to monetize the web until around 2006

      What do you think caused the 2000 dot com crash?

      --
      And did you exchange a walk on part in the war for a lead role in a cage? - Pink Floyd.
    3. Re:What I miss about computing of yesteryear by ckatko · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I miss the days of being able to Google/Infoseek/Altavista/whatever whatever the hell I wanted, and not even REMOTELY or subconsiously worry about someone finding out about it and:

      1 - Blackmailing me

      2 - Government agents knocking on my door

      All that mattered was finding information to satisfy curiosity. Now, my freaking TELEVISION is a permanently-on microphone being used to sell everything about me (per their own ToS!) to the manufacturer, to "business partners", and "third-party affiliates" and everyone else under the sun.

      Remember when you first read the Anarchists Cookbook, as a kid? It didn't mean you were gonna blow up a school. It was just cool, stupid stuff to read. But now, you might as well be asking for a visit from federal agents. And it's been statistically proven that I'm no edge case, and that people aren't searching a variety of topics they used to.

      https://motherboard.vice.com/e...

      We've passed from the Information Age of citizens using nearly infinite information to better themselves, into the age of Big Data wherein ALL INFORMATION no matter how conceptually small, must be tracked and exploited by billion dollar corporations and shady governments. And with every sensor and internet connection shrinking in price, the cost of tracking our every biometric data, every thought, every action, everything is now quickly becoming registered in a database... and we're just supposed to "trust" and have "faith" that these gigantic actors won't abuse their power, or, accidentally LEAK that same data.

      It's no damn coincidence that hackers are worth big money now. Information is literal power. And any information that you take from citizens, the more valuable, the more likely someone will steal it--just like any valuable physical object. So our governments may not "abuse" tracking our every move, but SOMEONE will. If you build it, they will come. You can't stack untold amounts of valuable information into a single vault, and not expect a robber to sneak in during the night.

  3. No bloatware by edx93 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    'nuff said.

    1. Re:No bloatware by Rosco+P.+Coltrane · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Maybe before Windows came about. But Win 95 was absolutely chock-full of useless shit. The first thing everybody with any sense did back then was clean up the freshly-installed OS to have more disk space and speed things up.

      --
      "A door is what a dog is perpetually on the wrong side of" - Ogden Nash
    2. Re:No bloatware by Z00L00K · · Score: 4, Interesting

      That - and I also miss being in control of my system. This is something we have lost with all those magic processes running in Windows or elusive ghost problems caused by Systemd.

      --
      If builders built buildings the way programmers wrote programs, then the first woodpecker would destroy civilization.
    3. Re:No bloatware by AmiMoJo · · Score: 2

      Remember those "Windows error fixer" programs? I had Norton System Works, a supposedly reputable company with Mr. Norton's renowned technical knowledge.

      Well, run Norton System Works on a fresh install of Windows 98 and it will find hundreds of "errors". In particular it would find hundreds of "broken" registry entries that pointed to non-existent files. The best part was that if you "fixed" these "errors" it would actually make the system highly unstable, as apparently the services and apps that used them could cope with the file not being there but exploded if the registry entry itself was missing.

      Plug & Play was a complete disaster too. Often had to clear out the 7 additional graphics cards that Windows had installed for me, because it saw some IRQ number or something change and assumed it was a new card, but the driver was telling it that the old card was still working so the user must obviously have installed two, or five, or sixteen...

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
  4. BASIC by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I miss BASIC. Seriously. I miss the days when the built-in command prompt was so easily accessible and so easily programmed that a 6 year old child could learn how to write "Hello World" within a few seconds, and could begin exploring the computer on his own after that. (That's exactly how I started, by the way.)

    1. Re:BASIC by Megane · · Score: 2

      I don't. It was slow as hell back in the day and harder to maintain than modern C code, but assembly language was a pain to use because we still had to run some kind of development environment on the same slow 8-bit computer, with 48K and one or two floppy drives. Either way we were screwed. People who wrote arcade video games had cross-assemblers on Vaxen and such, much less annoying to develop on.

      --
      #naabhaprzrag, #sverubfr-000, #agi-fcbafberq, negvpyr[pynff*=' negvpyr-ary-'] { qvfcynl: abar !vzcbegnag; }
    2. Re:BASIC by arth1 · · Score: 2, Funny

      From there, we would progress to filling the entire screen with characters to create ASCII art.

      Screen? You never had a life sized Samantha Fox printed out on 132-column tractor feed paper?

  5. Apple ][+ by fluffernutter · · Score: 2

    On my Apple ][+ there were no loading progress bars for games on 5.25" floppies but you could usually tell where you were in the loading sequence by the pattern of grunting that the hard drive was making.

    --
    Laws are rules for the court, but merely a bottom bar to hit for life. Think beyond laws in your actions always.
  6. Guys like us we had it made by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    Didn't need no welfare state, everybody pulled his weight.

    Gee, our Apple ][ ran great.

    Those were the days.

  7. Th best of days by sit1963nz · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I started with a Dick Smith Systems-80 (A TRS-80 M1 Clone), and I still own one (as well as a bunch of others)

    It was probably the peak time for interesting hardware, hundreds of different hardware designs, processors, I/O, DOSs, etc etc etc.
    Variations of Basic (And even FORTH on the Jupiter Ace), the advent of colour and sound, joysticks, light guns.

    The Magazines were useful, they had construction articles, software articles, how-to articles, the adverts were even useful for information.
    It was like evolution on steroids, new and interesting designs were thrown out there to see what worked and what didn't

    Todays computing landscape in comparison is pretty bland in its sameness and Magazines articles are really just advertorials.

    Discussions back then were useful and people did not care what you used, it was new , it was interesting , now they degenerate into flame bait Mac/Windows/Linux sucks rants.

    So much good was lost.

  8. Going to the arcade as a group by HockeyPuck · · Score: 5, Interesting

    I miss going to the arcade (or bowling alley) with a group of people. It wasn't just about playing the games but the social aspect of it. Lining up quarters on the SF2 cabinet as to who "had next". Now I see kids staying home, each on their own xbox/Playstation and connected via VOIP with their friends.

    Even LAN parties were better than what we have now from a social interaction standpoint.

    1. Re:Going to the arcade as a group by Scarletdown · · Score: 4, Funny

      My big Asteroids memory was at our local truck stop. I was never very good at it, but I did frequently go ahead and enter initials when someone else would finish and not notice they made the high score board.

      I just hope that in the future, some interstellar military talent scout doesn't find out that I was the one who would sign the abandoned boards as FUK, and then insist that I must join other 80s greats, like ASS, DIK, CUM, TIT, and CNT to save the world against an imminent combined asteroid bombardment and flying saucer attack.

      --
      This space unintentionally left blank.
    2. Re:Going to the arcade as a group by meta-monkey · · Score: 2

      Gauntlet

      Fastest way to lose 3 friends. "DAMNIT WHY ARE YOU ALL OVER THERE I can't reach the teleporter now!!!!"

      --
      We don't have a state-run media we have a media-run state.
  9. Manuals! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

    More specifically manuals not intended for drooling imbeciles. I'm talking computer manuals that described the hardware in detail. Long before I finished high-school I taught myself about computer architecture, assembly programming, even hardware hacking using mostly the manuals that came with my first (Microbee 32k) and subsequent computers. Those things were encyclopedic! Long descriptions of the system, why they chose design x, possible gotchas, a sprinkling of the history/evolution of the system, detailed information about ports and memory maps, circuit diagrams, even things like suggested mods to add battery backups, more memory, switchable ROM banks etc and hints for repairers. As a teenager I devoured that stuff!

    The glossy, inaccurate combo token screenshots and poorly-translated dot-points in today's manuals just makes me miss the old manuals more.

  10. Re:Old computers presented you with a prompt by dbIII · · Score: 2

    looked at you stupidly and waited for you to toggle in a bootstrap loaded on the switches and lights before they would even consider giving you a prompt.

    It's not old, but one of the in-jokes in a Stargate SG-1 episode was where they had recovered from a power outage in the middle of an emergency and had something like thirty seconds to get the computer controlling the gate running or they are all going to die. Then there is a cut to a screen showing Solaris starting up.

    With so many system checks and so many other things going on it's typically minutes and never less than 30 seconds. People called it Slowaris for that reason. It's not a flaw when it's something you shutdown every year or two and you want those checks done some time anyway, but it's the nature of the thing.

  11. Creating my own S100 computer by mykepredko · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Wire wrapped, Z80 processor board. Motorola 6845 (using the design of the IBM Monochrome Adapter from the original PC) board. Single 8" drive running CP/M (I think I bought an S100 drive controller board but I can't remember where it came from - the disk drive came from IBM, where I was working at the time as a student). Surplus S100 rack ordered from "Radio Electronics". The power supply was hand made by one of my roommates that wanted to design his own switcher (it actually worked quite well). Keyboard was a surplus Ti-99 keyboard I bought at Active Surplus in Toronto. Monitor was an old portable TV I drove composite video into directly after removing the tuner.

    Good days.

  12. I must be old, but current computing isn't fun... by antdude · · Score: 2

    Privacy, complications, buggy, bad usability and experiences, etc.

    --
    Ant(Dude) @ Quality Foraged Links (AQFL.net) & The Ant Farm (antfarm.ma.cx / antfarm.home.dhs.org).
  13. Being able to understand the whole stack by williamyf · · Score: 5, Informative

    Being able to understand the computer top to bottom, that's what I miss about that era.

    Yes, it was frustrating to try and make it stable and configure it. But the HW, and the OS and the SW were so simple that, if you were so inclined, you could deeply understand the whole stack...

    Nowadays, not anymore...

    --
    *** Suerte a todos y Feliz dia!
  14. Write-protect tabs by dottrap · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I miss the hard physical write-protect tabs we had on floppy disks.

    Nowadays, if you plug in a USB stick or external hard disk, you have to trust that the OS won't write or screw up your data in any way. Ignoring bugs and and "helpful" OS's who try to reformat if they don't recognize the filesystem, with viruses and other malware, you can't trust software to enforce read-only modes.

  15. My list? by lord_mike · · Score: 3, Informative

    1. Instant on. Turn on the switch ad the computer's booted. On some machines, you might have to wait for your DOS to load, but it was typically quick. No more waiting minutes (or sometimes hours in the case of Windows XP) to boot up.

    2. As noted upthread, BASIC. Yeah, it was a crappy programming language. The microcomputer versions were pretty bad--line numbers, single letter variables, no structured programming constructs, lack of hexadecimal notation for POKEs, and slow speed. Debugging was nearly impossible as the language was prone to spaghetti code and it was hardly self documenting (who is going to waste precious memory on a REM statement?). Regardless, it was very straightforward to use and allowed novices to create something that worked. It forced people to learn how to code, as even the most basic of commands, like "LOAD "*",8,1 was a BASIC statement. If you wanted to do anything with the machine, you had to do something in BASIC. It was good for people to learn.

    3. Games. The games were fun and didn't require investing a part of your soul and all of your spare time to play them. I still play some of them in emulation when I have some time to kill. they were unique, and there is nothing like them today.

    4. Modems. Yeah, they were slow, but you had to love that handshake/connect sound!! It's amazing how much juice they managed to get out of them near the end. There is something very primal about connecting a computer via phone line. I miss it. I read recently that modems don't really work on VOIP lines, which is what most remaining land lines consist of. That's a big bummer...

    5. The Atari Joystick Standard. I have a very hard time playing with a modern game controller with it's millions of buttons. Give me a one (I'll be generous, two) button joystick any day over these modern monstrosities.

    6. Babbages. Yes, that came later, but a store devoted to computer gaming? Heaven! I had a friend who was a manager there. They were allowed to take home and "test drive" the software. I was so mad when he quit that job!!!

    7. The simplicity and closeness to hardware. You can't manipulate hardware nowadays like you used to. Everything was easy to get to via software. The software itself was simple and straightforward. You don't get that today.

    The things I don't miss:

    1. Tape loading... who would be crazy to name that as a good thing? That was awful. There's a reason why everyone switched to floppies if they could.

    2. Lack of access to information about your computer. The books and magazines were great, but getting the right book or back issues of the right magazine were often difficult to find... There was no access to code libraries or helpful info if you ran into a problem programming or using your machine.

    3. Getting software. It could be tough finding retail outlets that sold your stuff, and very few things came at a discount. That was another good reason to learn how to program.

    4. Single tasking. We are spoiled nowadays with our ability to run multiple programs at the same time. Back then, on some computers, just loading up a DOS file directory would cause you to lose all your work. Thanks to multitasking, we can emulate our beloved old computers at the same time we can do something else.. so overall, we certainly are better off today than before... but I still miss the old times.

  16. My old Amiga by Ol+Olsoc · · Score: 4, Interesting
    While I started out like so many people, on a Commodore 64, My computing life really took off when I bought one of the Commodore Amiga 500's.

    Keeping in mind the time, this thing had it all over the typical IBM PC of the day. Those little disks, actual multitasking, nice built in graphics. I had a nice little side business doing weddings after I bought an Amiga 2000, and the necessary camera and editing equipment. Eventually I talked my main work into a 3000 and frame buffer, and showing them what I could do in making 3-D animations in Imagine, and their use in science. I did all this with my A3000, which was my favorite Amiga of all. My last Amiga was the 4000, with a video Toaster and Lightwave. The old Deluxe Paint 2, 3, and 4 were in constant use. The machines were just plain fun to use. I was making 3-D animations and videos with frame buffers and VTR control software, while my Microsoft based colleagues were all excited when they got the right escape codes to print landscape.

    But Commodore was a badly run company, and the promise that the A4000 had went away when they went belly up. Fortunately, this was around the time when non-linear editing and computer and video speed were catching up to the Amiga, and My next system was a Mac Pro. I continued to use Lightwave, in part because the 3-D learning curve is steep as hell, and fortunately NewTek makes it for Mac.

    Those were some pretty heady and fun days, to grow up with the computing revolution. I still enjoy it, but no where near as much as with the old Amigas.

    --
    The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
  17. Depth of control! Top to bottom was possible by shanen · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Well, a barely insightful comment there, but seriously disappointed by the lack of "funny" comments on this target-rich topic. Or is my memory fooling me about how much fun and laughter we had back then?

    However, the one that was missing from the article and so far not here in the Slashdot comments is something I would call "depth of control". In the days before magic black boxes we could actually understand how our computers worked from top to bottom. One example I remember involved debugging an application program. Can't even remember if it was 8 or 16 bits (though it was running on an S-100 system that had two CPUs and could actually run both), but I remember my debugging actually went into the OS and I wound up "fixing" it by replacing one OS call in the application executable with a closely related call. I think the rise of the black boxes began with the Mac but didn't triumph until Microsoft went mousing along ca Windows 95 or 2000.

    Might be I've lost my marbles or intestinal fortitude, but I wouldn't even try it with any of the machines I'm using these days. Not even the tiny harmless-looking little smartphones.

    Black boxes to the right of them,
    Black boxes to the left of them,
    Black boxes in front of them...

    Apologies to Lord Tennyson.

    --
    Freedom = (Meaningful - Coerced) Choice != (Speech | Beer^2), and sad sock puppets' bad mods avail them naught.
    1. Re:Depth of control! Top to bottom was possible by shanen · · Score: 2

      Hmm... I guess I was hoping to see more "sea stories" like your [fwarren's] reply. More evidence that the old timers have left the Slashdot [building]?

      Maybe that's related to the generally non-constructive attitude of today's Slashdot? I'm too focused on SOLUTIONS for the problems, but today's residual Slashdotters just want to grouse and vent spleen? (However I still think there are some paid trolls practicing or even trying to perfect their craft here.)

      Anyway, I did remember a few more details of my own sea story. I was actually porting a 8-bit CP/M program from the S-100 box to a Kaypro. The underlying problem was that the S-100's had apparently been patched to prevent a certain kind of polling, but the Kaypro would get paralyzed by the busy waiting. So I wound up tracing into the code to find where the system call was and replaced it with the other call that wouldn't loop while polling.

      Oh well. The topic has died by now, but I'll take one more look for "funny" comments...

      --
      Freedom = (Meaningful - Coerced) Choice != (Speech | Beer^2), and sad sock puppets' bad mods avail them naught.
  18. Security by ka9dgx · · Score: 2

    In the MS-DOS / floppy disk days, you had far more security. Your entire operating system was write-protected, and you could make a copy of it, and test that copy, all in less than 10 minutes.

    These days, you can't even clone your hard drive and have reasonable assurance that all your apps will work without being re-authorized.

  19. it has come to this by lucm · · Score: 4, Insightful

    So what do I miss? I miss software that works.

    That works where? On an original Commodore Green-Screen? An Apple-II? A TRS-80? A Commodore 64? A VIC-20? An Atari? One of those Sinclairs with the hex keypad?

    I hear ya, but remember that back then it was just a given that software worked only in one environment. The ultimate walled garden. The notion that software would run on anything else beside what it was written for was all but science fiction.

    I agree with you, but that model kinda worked. I've been involved in three different projects replacing legacy software that had worked for 15, 20 years, and in all three instances the bleeding-edge upgrade left the companies with less value, and two of them went through a full rewrite within 2-3 years.

    For instance, take an "obsolete" inventory management system running on HP3000 PowerHouse and replace it with a state-of-the-art J2EE marvel running on WebLogic and Oracle. A few millions later champagne was flowing during the Go Live, but users could no longer search the inventory by packing slip number or get daily list of slow moving SKUs so they could optimize the floor layout. Or take a shop floor data collection system based on COPICS and running on S/370, and replace it with a fantastic ASP web app running on IIS and Access (no shit), later replaced with a XML-powered piece of shit WebMethods implementation that was so slow that foremen could get their numbers faster by walking around and counting stuff with a handheld mechanical clicker like some fucking doormen.

    In enterprise world at least, hardware has improved a lot but software has gone downhill. I'm not saying an ember screen is sexier than an iPhone app, but ERP/MRP used to work and now they don't. Geez, for 30+ years Readers' Digest has successfully managed the most amazing CRM in history - so advanced and reliable that USPS was contracting them to double-check their postal data - on an old mainframe running a piece of software created before a man set foot on the moon; then they tried to "upgrade" to a stinking pile of garbage based on Affinium (now NetInsight) and Ab Initio, and after ten years the migration was still not completed.

    Yeah, we now have BDDs and DSLs and BPELs, we have SPARQLs and RDDs, we have ORMs and NoSQLs and microservices, but somehow we can't get enterprise software that work better than decades-old programs punch-carded by people who looked like Marty Mcfly's father. What's up with that.

    --
    lucm, indeed.
  20. One thing I miss is the ads from the old magazines by shoor · · Score: 2

    There were all these companies out there before the big shakeout. Trying to think of names I come up with "Smoke Signal Broadcasting" which I think sold a Motorola 6800 based system. Somebody sold a system based on the Cosmac Elf. There was the Kim 1 with 256 bytes of memory (yes bytes) and a 6502. Most systems were Intel 8080 or Zilog Z80 based. North Star and Cromemco are 2 names I remember. Somebody sold a system based on the Signetics 2650 CPU (very short lived.) Heathkit had an LSI 11 based system. Radioshack a 6809 system, the Coco or color computer.

    There were also disc drives, keyboards, simple display setups, gadgets to operate IBM selectric typewriters as printers. I'm trying to remember now, but it's fuzzy, and I can't remember prices (which changed rapidly anyway.) One Byte or Creative Computing or Dr Dobbs from that time would bring clarity just from reading the ads.

    --
    In theory, theory and practice are the same; in practice they're different. (Yogi Berra & A. Einstein)
  21. Has there been much progress since 2000? by walterbyrd · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Hardware has improved, but software bloat just eats that up anyway.

    The Windows 2000 interface was better than anything MS has come up with so far.

    MS-Office is not much better.

    Ubuntu has been going downhill since 10.4.

    I suppose there has been some progress, but not much.

  22. Two Unforgivable Errors by Scarletdown · · Score: 3, Informative

    From TFA...

    "It was at this point that the entire industry moved over to 3D rendering. Sega failed to anticipate this, with its Saturn console, while the Sony Playstation and Nintendo 64 excelled in this area. Subsequently, Sega never made a console again."

    BZZZZZT! How can he not remember the actual final console Sega made? The Dreamcast, not the Saturn, was their last; and it did do 3D.

    "Mario Bros, an arcade game that was later ported to the home platforms. This first Mario game has most of the elements that we now think of as intrinsic to platform games as it’s a scrolling game world made up levels to be traversed to completion."

    Again, BZZZZZZZTTTTT!!! Mario Brothers was not a side scroller. It was a nonscrolling platformer (and I believe the first to introduce Luigi). The game the author is describing is Super Mario Brothers. I would bet he thinks Mario didn't get named until then either (I think in Donkey Kong Jr., he got renamed from his original Jumpman moniker from DK, to Mario, where he was the "villain."

    Those two errors do a lot to destroy any credibility this guy has as a writer on classic video game and computer history.

    "Game over. Press Redo or Back." (Always thought the gal who did the female voice for TI-99/4a Speech Synthesizer games sounded hot.)

    --
    This space unintentionally left blank.
  23. Things I'd fix if I could go back in time... by Miamicanes · · Score: 3

    1. The Amiga 1000 would have shipped with a 68010 from day one. It only cost a few dollars more than a 68000, and would have ensured that 98% of all the good games that came out for the next 5 years wouldn't crash, burn, and die a horrible death on anything with a 68020+ due to the copy protection using MOVE SR, <ea>.

    2. I would have BEGGED Jay Miner for a "semi-chunky" 4-bit graphics mode that used a byte per pixel, but read either the high or low nybble (set by a register bit). So you could write the low nybbles, display them, update the high nybbles, switch to them, update the low nybbles, switch to them, etc. And had a graceful update path for ECS to make it a true 8-bit mode.

    3. I would have tied up the CEO of Gravis and beat him with a rubber hose until he agreed to let the engineers add a SB-compatible FM and DAC to it (for perfect compatibility with SB-only software, instead of endless fucking misery with SBOS that never really worked right). Or at least, could take a daughterboard with SB-compatible chips (so they could keep the lower price point without permanently gimping it). Or even just had a fucking 1/8" stereo jack for input from a second soundcard that got mixed 50/50 with the GUS's native audio (enabled with a jumper), so you could have both a GUS and a SBpro without having to switch cables or spend a hundred bucks on an external mixer.

    4. I would have leaked the whole story of HP's CD-R design debacle to the media before they had a chance to ship (ie, HP's engineers *knew* beyond doubt that shipping a CD writer without a dedicated RAM buffer was GUARANTEED to turn at least 1 in 4 discs into a coaster, but HP's management ignored their protests).

    5. I would have made an equally made a big stink in the media about PC-CHIPS's fake "WRITE-BACK cache" circa 1993 (literally, bars of plastic with metal pins soldered to the motherboard, and a BIOS that flat-out LIED about it).

  24. Re:Who you kidding? by Mal-2 · · Score: 2

    Thanks to anti-vaxers, you just may get your beloved polio back.

    --
    How is the Riemann zeta function like Trump rallies? Both have an endless number of trivial zeros.
  25. Computers need rowa of blinking lights by kevmeister · · Score: 2
    I miss front panel debugging. Having a row of about 20 switches that allow you to modify memory and read out the program counter in lights as well as halt, step, examine, and continue the computer and step it through the program. I programmed vector graphics that way on a paper tape OS. You put lots of NO-OPs in so you could add instructions as you debugged. You really learned how the computer and the graphics worked.

    I also liked core memory. You halted the system and turned it off. An hour or a week later, you turned it on and pressed "Continue" and you were right where you left off.

    --
    Kevin Oberman, Network Engineer, Retired
  26. Get off my lawn ... by ei4anb · · Score: 2

    Those are not what I would call very old :-)
    The first computer I learned to program was originally built in 1966 and later donated to our university in the mid '70s http://2eo.blogspot.ie/2007/12...

  27. The good, the bad, and the ugly... by Ashtead · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Maybe I mostly remember the slings and arrows -- these so-called BASIC program listings that were about eight lines of actual readable (and thus re-writeable) BASIC code and the rest of the page or pages being DATA statements with numbers. Then the PCs came, and we could, if sufficiently masochistic, type in similar listings to use with DEBUG.EXE. Later, as software grew larger, there soon came the need of faffing about with config.sys and autoexec.bat so that available memory was maximized. In the late 1980s onwards, there were the expanded memory nonsense too and more and more options and things in config.sys. There there would be jumper settings so DMA channels, port-addresses and interrupt lines on the various plug-in cards in the PCs. This continued well into the 1990s, then that got replaced by something called Plug-and-play which maybe, maybe not, did work, thus everyone called it "Plug-and-pray". And all on the original 640K plus whatever High memory had been put into place. I do not miss any of all this. TFS mentions the dreariness of business computing. they are absolutely right!

    But I might not be typical -- I started with learning FORTRAN, then after that BASIC seemed primitive (no functions? and thus no data hiding? i have to make sure I don't re-use any of the variable-names anywhere else? and only one letter? at least FORTRAN allowed me to use six! bah) but the PC-compatible had Turbo Pascal, and there was also the assembler and later, Turbo C, so that became a nice set-up, with direct control of the pins on the parallell and serial ports, and even some DIY card with A-D converters! Yay!

    Then there were the wonderful Unix systems, HP-UX and AIX back around the mid-1980s, where you could actually do more than one thing at a time without the machine crashing. And even if your program decided to hang, or accessed some memory out of bounds, it would say "bus error" or "segmentation fault" and stop, but the rest of the system, including other programs, would continue happily along as if nothing had happened. These even had networking so we could have programs on one machine talk with programs on another machine.

    Of course this didn't last. Those Unix systems were way too expensive. Instead, Windows NT happened, and a form of multitasking and even eventually a useful networking system (TCP/IP is useful, all the other weird and wonderful variants turned out not to be so) and the access to the parallell port vanished, while the support for the serial ports became increasingly wobbly. ISA, EISA, Micro Channel, and MS-DOS became dinosaurs soon after; parallell and serial ports followed on as being branded "legacy". And like the dinosaurs, some of their descendants are still around now: RS-232 serial ports never really went away completely. USB came, but turned out to not be as hacker-friendly as those serial ports -- there is a reason everyone today runs (RS-232 style) serial via USB using a pl2303 or FTDI or similar chip to talk and listen to the UART in their SBC or microcontroller board.

    There was a sort of dark age, of PCs running klunky MS-DOS or slightly less klunky Windows, until the late half of the 1990s, when Linux distros became easily available, and so good that they actually worked right on some reasonable random PC hardware that would be available, and all the good old Unix ways of doing things finally became economically feasible, intially on PCs, many of them second-hand. Around the middle of the 2000s the first single-board computers started showing up, and some of these are now becoming as understandable and documented as those old 8088 PCs with their MS-DOS once were.

    To some extent we are in a golden age right now.

    --
    SIGBUS @ NO-07.308
  28. Linux still does this by TeknoHog · · Score: 3, Insightful

    It presents you with a command prompt, ready to be programmed on. You can do things like shell one-liners to automate pieces of your work as you go on, without entering any special programming modes. And when you need to do more serious programming, there are no artificial barriers. In short, it doesn't enforce any unnecessary separation between users and developers.

    --
    Escher was the first MC and Giger invented the HR department.
  29. Related: Knowing what your computers was doing by bradley13 · · Score: 3, Informative

    Related to understanding the whole stack: You also knew exactly what your computer was doing. Why is the disk thrashing? Because you just started a program to do X. There was a very direct relationship to what you asked the computer to do, and what the computer did. Programs and activities had rhythms to them (visual and aural). If you saw/heard something unexpected, this was an immediate indication that something was wrong.

    Nowadays: Why is my disk busy? No idea. What program is sending crap across the network? No idea. WTF are those 1000 or so threads doing in the background? No idea on at least half of them...

    --
    Enjoy life! This is not a dress rehearsal.
  30. Simplicity by houghi · · Score: 5, Interesting

    I used to have (under Linux) a thing that did something and another thing that did something else.
    Now I have a PC with a bios that tries to do everything, starting a bootloader that tries to do everything, running a desktop manager that tries to do everything to launch a browser that tries to do everything, to visit a site that tries to do everything.

    And when _I_ try to do anything, it breaks and when I ask for help, they all point to others because their software is perfect.
    And do not even try to change settings in a human readable file, because if you are lucky, it will be overwritten by who knows what and that would be the best outcome.

    And asking questions on how to do that, the RTFM is not available and the FAQ is something not even the writer or the developer can understand and all other documentation just says : you need X, Y and Z and the versuon you run is not the correct one and if you install the correct one, 7 other programs will break and will never work again.

    So all you can hope for is to install something, hope it works and never do any upgrades, because that will break the system.

    So what will I really miss? Being the boss over my own PC with tools that are usable by a human of average intelligence, not just by some Linux Guru who is only interested in his small little world, just so I can use it how I like it.

    This fredom has been taken away by removing simplicity.

    --
    Don't fight for your country, if your country does not fight for you.
  31. Comment removed by account_deleted · · Score: 2

    Comment removed based on user account deletion

  32. BBS Culture by Tank · · Score: 2

    Of all the things I miss most about the era of "old computers" (for me this means early 80's), it's the culture of BBS systems that I miss the most. Operating under a pseudonym was extremely liberating, and by separating the individual from existing notions of age, gender, race, etc, the discourse could focus almost exclusively on the ideas being presented. The fact that the medium was entirely text-based during this period was a benefit, as it supported the stripping away of elements outside of the ideas. While the user base was smaller and more segmented, introduction of FIDONet helped expand interaction between sub-communities.

    Looking at the evolution of online communities, and specifically the advent of social media, I personally find that we've moved in an absolutely contrary direction where social media environments create a focus on crafting an _image_ of a particular individual through photos, videos, and streams highlighting characteristics of the poster (irregardless of whether they actually apply to the posting user) and de-emphasize any true interaction around the core ideas being applied. It looks to me less a medium for discourse and discovery of new ideas, and more one for finding pockets of support and self-validation for ideas already held.

    That's how I see things now, but perhaps it's just because I'm getting old and curmudgeonly...

    On the other hand, I don't miss the XModem file transfer protocol (with it's stupid extra bytes at the end) at all. :-)

  33. Security by TomGreenhaw · · Score: 2

    I miss the days when computer viruses and hackers were not a threat. Back in the late 70's and early 80's the systems were so primitive the was no way for external users to get into your systems.

    Maybe this is part of the attraction I have for the Arduino.

    --
    Greed is the root of all evil.
  34. Showing off by meta-monkey · · Score: 2

    I miss the one Apple IIe in the back of every classroom that no one else knew how to use. "Computers are the future, and so we need them in the classroom!" and our school system bought one Apple IIe for each classroom, that sat there, unused.

    In the 4th grade we had to do some project about the different types of biomes (tundra, desert, deciduous forest, rain forest, etc). So most people made a diorama or something. I wrote a quiz game in BASIC called "Name That Biome!" I included 20 questions from the textbook about the different biomes, and the program would pick 10 at random, ask them to the user, the user would enter their multiple choice answer, and then it would tell if you got it right or not, and then give you your score at the end. This was wizardy to the teacher, so I got a 100. And after that every year up through high school there was some project or another in one of my classes where I could just swap out the questions and the game became "Name That State!" "Name That Napoleonic Wars Battle!" Took only a few minutes and got an A every time. Good times.

    --
    We don't have a state-run media we have a media-run state.
  35. Nobody knows... by martinfb · · Score: 2

    Chances are that Millenials and XGen-ers have no clue what it was like back in the day when times were simpler.
    Some folks do yearn for those days.

    I remember enjoying the times, yet also being excited about the possibilities and promises of the potential future.

    The thing I miss the most is the general 'honesty' and openness of the industry back then.
    Now a days, it has all become a matter of capitalistic profits.

    I miss integrity, responsibility, and honesty of working for a harmonious society.
    Now, it seems that we have armed monkeys with a machine gun; and corporate inhuman entities with potentially insurmountable oppressive methods.
    Let's get educated and use those tools to better society as a whole.

    --


    Self-importance and self-indulgence is the root of ALL evil.
  36. "Modern" bloated and slow UI by Disoculated · · Score: 2

    You know what I miss? I miss being able to type text input as fast as my hands could go, without an hourglass or hanging pause. And it's not like I type any faster now than I did on a C64.