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Google's AlphaGo Will Face Its Biggest Challenge Yet Next Month -- But Why Is It Still Playing? (theguardian.com)

From a report on The Guardian: A year on from its victory over Go star Lee Sedol, Google DeepMind is preparing a "festival" of exhibition matches for its board game-playing AI, AlphaGo, to see how far it has evolved in the last 12 months. Headlining the event will be a one-on-one match against the current number one player of the ancient Asian game, 19-year-old Chinese professional Ke Jie. DeepMind has had its eye on this match since even before AlphaGo beat Lee. On the eve of his trip to Seoul in March 2016, the company's co-founder, Demis Hassabis, told the Guardian: "There's a young kid in China who's very, very strong, who might want to play us." As well as the one-on-one match with Jie, which will be played over the course of three games, AlphaGo will take part in two other games with slightly odder formats. But why is Google's AI still playing Go, you ask? An article on The Outline adds: Its [Google's] experiments with Go -- a game thought to be years away from being conquered by AI before last year -- are designed to bring us closer to designing a computer with human-like understanding that can solve problems like a human mind can. Historically, there have been tasks that humans do well -- communicating, improvising, emoting -- and tasks that computers do well, which tend to be those that require lots of computations -- like math of any kind, including statistical analysis and modeling of, say, journeying to the moon. Slowly, artificial intelligence scientists have been pushing that barrier. [...] Go is played on a board with an 19-by-19 grid (updated after readers pointed out it's not 18x18 grid). Each player takes turn placing stones (one player with white, the other with black) on empty intersections of the grid. The goal is to completely surround the stones of another player, removing them from the board. The number of possible positions compared to chess thanks in part to the size of the board and ability to take any unoccupied position is part of what makes it so complex. As DeepMind co-founder Demis Hassabis put it last year, "There are 1,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000, 000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000, 000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 possible positions."

14 of 115 comments (clear)

  1. Grid by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Informative

    It's a 19x19 grid, not 18x18.

    1. Re:Grid by bluefoxlucid · · Score: 2

      19x19, 13x13, or 9x9. The number of possible positions is 2^361, but the number of possible moves is a lot bigger. The problem is projecting those moves is long and difficult; you have to be able to extrapolate localized influence and identify how that impacts a global strategy in an abstract sense, or else you can't play. A computer can't track all of the possible moves because losing a big position might be less-relevant than a play elsewhere that establishes power to restrict your gains to 1/3 of the board and solidify the entirety of the other 2/3 for the opponent.

      The amount of analysis is huge. You can create algorithms to shorten it, right up until a human does something strategically-novel.

    2. Re:Grid by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

      Indeed, also:

      The goal is to completely surround the stones of another player, removing them from the board.

      Only beginning players think that. The true goal of the game is to occupy more territory than the opponent.

      By the way, the best source of information on go is probably Go Sensei

    3. Re:Grid by Blaskowicz · · Score: 2

      One simple example is a black stone surrounded by white stones. It may happen on the board before removing the stone but I doubt it counts as a position. Have two such occurrences for the position to be definitely illegal.

      Turns out, I did once read about it and to sum it up the number of legal positions is about one in 81. It was only computed on Jan 2016 :)
      https://tromp.github.io/go/leg...

      The software used for these computations is available at my github repository. Running "make" should compute L(3,3) in about a second. For running an L19 job, a beefy server with 15TB of fast scratch diskspace, 8 to 16 cores, and 192GB of RAM, is recommended. Expect a few months of running time. (...)

  2. Which go... by __aaclcg7560 · · Score: 2, Funny

    Go as in... the game?

    Go as in... the programming language?

    Go as in... I had to go five minutes ago?

    1. Re:Which go... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

      Go as in... go fuck yourself

  3. More than a google but less than a googleplex by leed_25 · · Score: 2, Interesting

    number of possible positions as reported by Demis Hassabis.

  4. logical fallacy? by zlives · · Score: 3, Insightful

    "designing a computer with human-like understanding that can solve problems like a human mind can"
    we are talking about a game here with rules so in essence its actually the reverse.

    this is an exercise where a human is trying to play like a computer that can plan out a million moves ahead... and some how is able to stay close!!

    1. Re:logical fallacy? by fluffernutter · · Score: 2

      The computer is better at go because of the number of moves it can plan though, not because it is more intelligent.

      --
      Laws are rules for the court, but merely a bottom bar to hit for life. Think beyond laws in your actions always.
    2. Re:logical fallacy? by MasseKid · · Score: 3, Interesting

      If you've read any of the professional commentary on the play style of AlphaGo, it's nothing like a human. The crux of it's ability is to be able to calculate the status of the board to the fraction of a point and take moves that advance the position by fractions of a point. Humans on the other hand tend to make moves that will swing the board by several points. As a result Alphago will never play a kami no itte, unlike Sedol who did in his single win against the computer. In other words, AlphaGo is better at microagression and the humans are still better at "the perfect play". Unfortunately for humans, it takes the absolute perfect play to beat microagression.

  5. Re:In Go you play against yourself, not the oppone by arth1 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Go is a struggle against one's fears and doubts; one's desires and ambitions; one's ability to control one's urges and anxieties.

    Go is more like a martial art, where the battle with one's opponent is secondary to the battle with one's self.

    What a load of crock. It's a game, with simple rules and high complexity. And yes, much like with martial art, Eastern philosophies and superstitious mumbo-jumbo has become part of the culture around it, to the point where players let masters win just like in martial arts, because a master not winning would be unthinkable.
    But really, it's a game. When playing online against unknown opponents, none of this comes into play, and it's just a question of thinking ahead and strategies.

  6. Geeze, use scientic notation already! by mark-t · · Score: 4, Informative

    Yeah, we get it... it's a big number. But writing it out longhand like that is just being needlessly cryptic... and at worst comes across as having been written by somebody who doesn't know shit about the actual number of combinations, and just decided to put a lot of zeros after the end of a 1 to make a number that sounds big. Try 1x10^172. This is far more readable, and those that know scientific notation will be able to understand just how big this number is.

    If you really feel that this doesn't adequately describe the scale of the number to people who don't know scientific notation, and want your article to be comprehensible to those people as well, then you can also add that it is considerably greater than the number of subatomic particles in the observable universe. And to be frank, if that doesn't convey just how fucking big the number is, then explicitly writing 172 zeros after a 1 isn't liable to either.

  7. Are you sure about that math? by sootman · · Score: 4, Funny

    I ran my own calculations and only came up with 999,999,999,999,999,999,999,999,999,999,999,999,999,999,999,999, 999,999,999,999,999,999,999,999,999,999,999,999,999,999,999,999,999,999,999,999,999,999,999,999,999,999,999,999,999,999,999, 999,999,999,999,999,999,999,999,999,999.

    Wait, sorry, I started counting at zero. Yup, it checks out.

    --
    Dear Slashdot: next time you want to mess with the site, add a rich-text editor for comments.
  8. Re:In Go you play against yourself, not the oppone by Raenex · · Score: 3, Insightful

    In martial arts the opponents actually develop the ability to read each other's mind and foresee their moves. Once this ability is perfected, the player essentially becomes invincible.

    Anime is not real life.