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Trump Administration Kills Open.Gov, Will Not Release White House Visitor Logs (techdirt.com)

An anonymous reader quotes a report from Techdirt: It will never be said that the Trump presidency began with a presumption of openness. His pre-election refusal to release his tax returns set a bit of precedent in that regard. The immediate post-election muffling of government agency social media accounts made the administration's opacity goals um clearer. So, in an unsurprising move, the Trump administration will be doing the opposite of the Obama administration. The American public will no longer have the privilege of keeping tabs on White House visitors. TIME reports: "The Trump Administration will not disclose logs of those who visit the White House complex, breaking with his predecessor, the White House announced Friday. White House communications director Michael Dubke said the decision to reverse the Obama-era policy was due to 'the grave national security risks and privacy concerns of the hundreds of thousands of visitors annually.' Instead, the Trump Administration is relying on a federal court ruling that most of the logs are 'presidential records' and are not subject to the Freedom of Information Act." So, to further distance himself from the people he serves (and the people who elected him), Trump and his administration have shut down the transparency portal put in place by the previous Commander-in-Chief: "White House officials said the Administration is ending the contract for Open.gov, the Obama-era site that hosted the visitor records along with staff financial disclosures, salaries, and appointments. An official said it would save $70,000 through 2020 and that the removed disclosures, salaries and appointments would be integrated into WhiteHouse.gov in the coming months."

268 comments

  1. Open.gov by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Did anyone feel it was ever "open" ?

    1. Re:Open.gov by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Troll

      It's okay when my team does it!

    2. Re:Open.gov by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Troll

      "Obummer smoked in secret, I respect Trump as Arsonist-in-Chief so long as he's upfront about it." - Trump supporter spinning in his future grave rhetorically.

      Here's a thought experiment, is there anything that you WOULDN'T apologize for Trump doing with some shallow rationalized pseudo-justification?

    3. Re:Open.gov by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Troll

      If you can respect it, you have serious fucking issues.

    4. Re:Open.gov by Tablizer · · Score: 2

      Odumbo claimed it was [open] and only made it less so. At least McCheeto is out of the gate admitting it.

      Kudos for insulting them both. Ad hominems should be fair and balanced ;-)

    5. Re:Open.gov by Mr+D+from+63 · · Score: 0

      Did anyone feel it was ever "open" ?

      The O admin kept telling us those logs were useless and inaccurate anyhow.

    6. Re:Open.gov by PopeRatzo · · Score: 3, Informative

      The O admin kept telling us those logs were useless and inaccurate anyhow.

      The Obama administration released the visitors log in its entirety.

      Here it is, in csv format.

      --
      You are welcome on my lawn.
    7. Re:Open.gov by kangsterizer · · Score: 1

      Pretty much
      People focus on "OH LOL 70K saved its nothing" which is true.

      But the reality is why would you spent anyone's time on something that isn't actually useful other than to create a false illusion of openness? Might as well not...

      Now I'd rather it would actually be open, but if they're not able to do it genuinely I'm happy that they stop doing so.

    8. Re:Open.gov by denzacar · · Score: 1

      But the reality is why would you spent anyone's time on something that isn't actually useful other than to create a false illusion of openness? Might as well not...

      Besides, them logs are probably sour anyways. And dissonant.

      --
      Mit der Dummheit kämpfen Götter selbst vergebens
    9. Re:Open.gov by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Obama and Company were well known to hold meetings at hotels around DC so they could avoid documenting the meetings.

    10. Re:Open.gov by PopeRatzo · · Score: 1

      Sorry, left off the link. Here you go:

      https://obamawhitehouse.archiv...

      --
      You are welcome on my lawn.
    11. Re:Open.gov by slashdotwannabe · · Score: 1

      The O admin kept telling us those logs were useless and inaccurate anyhow.

      Ignoring stupidity of the "two wrongs make a right" premise of your statement, perhaps you might provide a citation for your bullshit rationalization of Trump's decision to hide the visitor logs? Specifically when did the Obama Administration state that the visitor logs were useless?

      --
      This comment is my opinion and does not represent an official position of Donald Trump or others I do not work for
    12. Re:Open.gov by Mr+D+from+63 · · Score: 1

      He argued the case against Sloan who maintained “White House visitor records have proven of enormous value to the public" and lost. Maybe you just forgot. Here is just one of the many stories about it to help you remember.

      http://pamelageller.com/2013/0...

    13. Re:Open.gov by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The obama admin had meetings in another building to avoid anything on the logs

    14. Re:Open.gov by slashdotwannabe · · Score: 1

      Your claim that the "O admin kept telling us those logs were useless and inaccurate" in no way agrees with what you just cited.

      • The Department of Justice made the argument -- not "He" (i.e. President Obama).
      • The argument did not state "those logs were useless and inaccurate.
      • The argument was not repeatedly made (i.e. he did not "keep telling us".
      • The court found that the records were not subject to the FOIA. The court's decision had nothing whatsoever to so with the accuracy or usefulness of the logs
      • Nevertheless, the Obama Administration DID release volumes and volumes of the logs. He reserved the right to determine which logs were released.
      • President Trump is using the same ruling to release NO logs whatsoever (under the guise of "terrorism!")

      Pro Tip: before you utter condescending snarky remarks like "maybe you just forgot", be sure you are not in fact, full of shit.

      --
      This comment is my opinion and does not represent an official position of Donald Trump or others I do not work for
    15. Re:Open.gov by Mr+D+from+63 · · Score: 1

      You make hard work of ignoring that Obama DID argue against releasing them, and part of that argument was that it would serve no purpose.I suppose my paraphrase give you enough excuse for dismissal and denial. Of course we all know he just wanted to cover up connection to the IRS scandal, of which Lerner had to plead the fifth for obvious reasons. I'm sure that was all fine with you though. The point is the hypocrites who didn't make a peep when O didn't want them released.

    16. Re:Open.gov by slashdotwannabe · · Score: 1

      I don't dispute that the Obama Administration fought against total release of the logs, and the court agreed. There is nothing that I can see in their arguments that tied to "uselessness" or "inaccuracy", and you provide no evidence to support your assertion. I hope you can agree that fighting for the right to redact and then releasing the vast majority of the logs is wildly different than the Trump Administration's standard of releasing NOTHING.

      It is not a question of "hypocrisy" because you're comparing apples to oranges. Obama released most logs but reserved the right to redact in specific cases; Trump is releasing nothing.

      As for the IRS "scandal", while I'm glad you conceded your previous point by diverting and changing the subject, puhlease. The IRS absolutely SHOULD have gone after political groups posing as non profits because it's illegal and that was their job. The hearings proved that the IRS went after groups on the left in about the same percentage as groups on the right, but there were simply many more groups on the right. The hearings demonstrated the IRS applying the law as written, and no charges were filed nor did Congress elect to change to any policies. Lois Lerner plead the 5th because she isn't stupid and she knew a witch hunt when she saw one and that was the advice of her counsel -- and it would have been the advice of yours as well, and you would have done the same thing. Apparently to people like you, witch hunts in which no witches are discovered prove the existence of witchcraft.

      --
      This comment is my opinion and does not represent an official position of Donald Trump or others I do not work for
    17. Re:Open.gov by Mr+D+from+63 · · Score: 1

      The 'hearings' you speak of were just a political mess. We all know why Lerner took the 5th, because that removed ties and prevented proof that there was a white house connection. No, they never showed they treated both parties equally, those were claims made by dems that you soaked up. And you don't plead the fifth when there is nothing to hide. I see you are well schooled and have bought in to the excuses though. That tells me you are not worth talking to on these topics.

      Personally, I have no problem with any president not releasing visitor logs. They should be released to legitimate investigative efforts when there is good reason (as was agreed by the court in the Obama case). There are too many people 'out to get' one side or the other, and anyone who visits becomes a political target.

  2. Good, it saves money by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Troll

    I'd rather save money then have the illusion of transparency.

    1. Re: Good, it saves money by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Except that it is not going to save any money. The whitehouse.gov operating expense just increases by $70,000.00 a net savings of $0.00

    2. Re: Good, it saves money by sh00z · · Score: 5, Insightful

      $70,000 is one HOLE of golf at Mar-a-Lago on any given weekend (using the standard $3M/trip metric, and assuming he plays two rounds).

    3. Re: Good, it saves money by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      (cost of one hole of golf + cost of running open.gov) > cost of one hole of golf.

      You're really bad at math, you know that?

    4. Re: Good, it saves money by sh00z · · Score: 4, Insightful

      That wasn't the math I was doing. Cost of running open.org for four years = 5% of a single weekend of Darth Cheeto charging the US population for wasting time.

    5. Re: Good, it saves money by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So you save $.00057

      In the 30 seconds it took you to post, you could have made ten times more money by working a minimum wage job.

    6. Re: Good, it saves money by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You forget that this place hates Trump, so while your assessment on math and strawman arguments are correct, you will be punished for defending Trump.

    7. Re: Good, it saves money by godamntheman · · Score: 1

      If the goal is to save money, there is significantly lower fruit to pick... Obviously saving money has nothing to do with this.

    8. Re: Good, it saves money by v1 · · Score: 0

      ... for defending Trump.

      is that even possible?

      --
      I work for the Department of Redundancy Department.
    9. Re: Good, it saves money by losfromla · · Score: 1, Troll

      Or he could, you know... stop fucking golfing so much on our dime.
      It's not like the exercise is doing him any good as he's still a fat-fuck blob.
      He probably sucks at golf anyhow which is why we don't hear too much about his scores there. Or come to think of it, about how much he bangs his hag. He'd definitely be bragging about that if it was happening.

      --
      Only I can judge you.
    10. Re: Good, it saves money by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

      The guy literally campaigned on not golfing.
      Yet another promise broken.

      "Because I'm going to be working for you, I'm not going to have time to play golf. Believe me! Believe me. Believe me folks."
      08/08/2016

      “I would rarely leave the White House because there’s so much work to be done,” Trump, 69, tells ITK. "I would not be a president who took vacations. I would not be a president that takes time off.”
      TheHill.com 06/23/15

    11. Re: Good, it saves money by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Many people defended Hitler.

      Yea yea Godwin etc.

    12. Re: Good, it saves money by fedos · · Score: 1

      And then right wingers wonder why all the sane people call them stupid.

    13. Re: Good, it saves money by ventsyv · · Score: 1

      Trump made such a huuuuuge deal about Obama's golfing and now, when he has spent 20% of his time as president golfing, he is getting a pass?

  3. Coal Mines unusable... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I know Trump wants all the coal jobs back - but I'd think it would be hard to get back in the mines, with all these dead canaries piled up everywhere.

    I'd call these warning signs of horrors to come - but the man has always been the living symbol of arrogance and greed, and if anyone didn't expect exactly the raw ineptitude and pride in that ineptitude that we're getting, I'd be amazed.

    Republicans claim that Government can't solve any problems, and then make it their solemn job to prove that at every opportunity, and Trump is the latest in growing line of leaders exemplifying that determined inability to provide basic governance while wasting endless amounts of resources.

    1. Re:Coal Mines unusable... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Troll

      Does whining about Trump on Slashdot make you feel better?

    2. Re:Coal Mines unusable... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Troll

      Not really, although I can appreciate why you would only give your support to Trump anonymously.

    3. Re:Coal Mines unusable... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Agreed, and it is true for Republicans in the House and Senate already.

      In my callow youth I had assumed Republicans were anti-government because they were smarter/more efficient. Maybe heartless, but at least competent.

      Now I realize with the likes of McConnell and Ryan and Trump that they are just incompetent boobs that are against government because they can't govern. Moreover, they are jealous of those who CAN govern (Clinton, Obama) because it just gives proof to their inadequacy.

      That in essence is why the deplorables voted for Trump, they wanted someone to prove that someone as incompetent and dim bulb as they are can become president.

    4. Re:Coal Mines unusable... by Tablizer · · Score: 3, Informative

      Plus, mining is gradually being automated. The conveyor carts and trucks will probably be the first to be automated, some already so.

      There's also progress in direct dirt-and-rock mining bots. Although they use some AI, they are also assisted remotely for the times the AI gets confused. One remote operator can assist several bots.

      Blaming lopsided trade deals with other countries for job loss has some merit, but is a fading threat compared to automation. T is fighting yesterday's battle.

    5. Re:Coal Mines unusable... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And what if it was; and what if it did.

    6. Re:Coal Mines unusable... by dbIII · · Score: 2

      I know Trump wants all the coal jobs back

      He doesn't. He just wants us all to think he does. As always he just wants attention. Those jobs are gone just like the steelmaking jobs since there is no market for overpriced coal or overpriced steel. They cannot compete with new operations that do things effectively instead of the way things were done in the 1950s. Even Trump knows this, but he doesn't care - if he makes enough noise it makes him look like he's bringing the jobs back, and when it doesn't happen he'll blame it on something else.
      I agree with you on everything else and what I wrote is probably not that different anyway.

    7. Re:Coal Mines unusable... by rtb61 · · Score: 1

      Coal mining automation has gone will past actual mining coal. The big push is to inject reactive fluids into the coal seams to generate gas, which is quite problematic as it tends to go all over the place, including setting rivers on fire but the labour force shrinks to practically nothing and they can hide the pollution generated behind lawyers and main stream media (unlike the visible mess a coal mine generations or the resultant ashes produced by burning coal, instead all the toxic side affects are buried and with any people affected by toxic water). Coal mining is so over.

      --
      Chaos - everything, everywhere, everywhen
    8. Re:Coal Mines unusable... by Neuronwelder · · Score: 1

      Why don't they offer the Coal Companies a way to make solar panels? Helical Wind Turbines? ..Hot air and self-greed doesn't go very far.

    9. Re:Coal Mines unusable... by Tablizer · · Score: 1

      big push is to inject reactive fluids into the coal seams ... quite problematic ... setting rivers on fire

      No problem! There will be no EPA to complain. Bring marshmallows and a red cap to the party.

      I love the smell of dereg in the morning!

    10. Re: Coal Mines unusable... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You really think the kinds of dipshits in the red states that voted for Trump have the brainpower to make solar cells? There's a reason those idiots can't get a job doing anything but digging rocks.

    11. Re:Coal Mines unusable... by jandersen · · Score: 1

      I know Trump wants all the coal jobs back - but I'd think it would be hard to get back in the mines, with all these dead canaries piled up everywhere.

      I'd call these warning signs of horrors to come - but the man has always been the living symbol of arrogance and greed, and if anyone didn't expect exactly the raw ineptitude and pride in that ineptitude that we're getting, I'd be amazed.

      Republicans claim that Government can't solve any problems, and then make it their solemn job to prove that at every opportunity, and Trump is the latest in growing line of leaders exemplifying that determined inability to provide basic governance while wasting endless amounts of resources.

      I wholeheartedly agree. The big question is how to get out of this quagmire? As far as I can see, the election of Trump is just the culmination of decades of deliberate mishandling of the one things that makes democracy work: education. The part of the population that needs better education and better chances in life, has been abandoned by the road side at least since Reagan, and instead been fed a diet of shallow soundbites about 'freedom' that wasn't really freedom at all. The ability to think critically and the self-esteem that comes with being able to distinguish truth from deceptive nonsense is not something we are born with, but in the name of freedom, religion has been allowed to influence far too many aspects of education.

      It is easy to understand why so many Americans - especially white, working class men - feel so angry with the government and the world in general, because they were just abandoned with no jobs and no realistic prospects of working or educating their way out of the pit they are in. And I can understand why they feel resentful, that everybody else are getting help and advantages - but the unfairness does not lie in trying to improve conditions for women, blacks or other minorities, it lies in abandoning white, working class men. And because they haven't been given the education they need and deserve, they fall for a guy like Trump, precisely because they have been taught for ages that they are too stupid and worthless to get a chance, because he sounds like he cares. And the churches only make this situation worse, with their insistence on believing in things that are always impossible to actually experience for real.

      The only way out of this mess is education - not education in IT or academic disciplines, but the skills needed for critical thinking and sustaining a strong belief in yourself. We should take up some of the good ideas from the past, where (at least in some countries) there was a movement towards 'educating the masses', and people of the working classes would actually spend time going to classes or reading clubs or the libraries etc, and discuss ideas. This is of course highly dangerous - critical thinking leads to people realising that not everything is true, that you hear from the people in charge, the politicians, religious ministers or whatever. It may even lead to socialism; those in charge definitely don't want working class people to be clever.

  4. Obama was an exception, not Trump by iMadeGhostzilla · · Score: 5, Informative

    "Mr. Trump’s policy is a return to the one followed by presidents who preceded Mr. Obama." (NYT). No mention of that in the summary.

    1. Re:Obama was an exception, not Trump by spire3661 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Reductio ad Absurdum

      --
      Good-bye
    2. Re:Obama was an exception, not Trump by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Slavery was banned with an amendment to the constitution not a pen and a desk/phone.

    3. Re:Obama was an exception, not Trump by ganjadude · · Score: 4, Insightful

      its not about "good" or "bad"

      with the way people are getting blacklisted for even meeting with trump or his team it makes perfect sense on why they wouldnt want to let that info out

      --
      have you seen my sig? there are many others like it but none that are the same
    4. Re:Obama was an exception, not Trump by rsilvergun · · Score: 1, Insightful

      Obama was exceptional

      FTFY.

      --
      Hi! I make Firefox Plug-ins. Check 'em out @ https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/youtube-mp3-podcaster/
    5. Re:Obama was an exception, not Trump by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Verses everything Obama did was good?

      Not to mention Lincoln was the countries first progressive president more akin to Obama and Hillary than Trump.

    6. Re:Obama was an exception, not Trump by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

      Obama Fails on Government Transparency

      “The American people were promised a new era of transparency with the Obama administration. Unfortunately, this promise has not been kept. To be clear: the Obama administration is less transparent than the Bush administration.”

      US gov't sets record for failures to find files when asked

      The Obama administration set a record for the number of times its federal employees told disappointed citizens, journalists and others that despite searching they couldn't find a single page requested under the Freedom of Information Act, according to a new Associated Press analysis of government data.

      In more than one in six cases, or 129,825 times, government searchers said they came up empty-handed last year. Such cases contributed to an alarming measurement: People who asked for records under the law received censored files or nothing in 77 percent of requests, also a record. In the first full year after President Barack Obama's election, that figure was only 65 percent of cases.

      The White House Guess List: How Obama Pulled a Fast One on the American People -- in the Name of "Transparency"

      The White House is still holding back "tens of thousands" of visitor logs, according to congressional testimony last week by Tom Fitton, President of Judicial Watch, who also added that "the Obama administration is less transparent than the Bush administration."

      We also know that some of the most important presidential visitors don't even walk into the White House. The administration meets K Street lobbyists at Caribou Coffee, and holds secret meetings in Jackson Place townhouses where there are no visitor logs.

      The visitor logs that have been released are problematic, because they are simply lists of names, with no way to verify whether a specific name belongs to a particular person.

    7. Re: Obama was an exception, not Trump by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Try again, the Gettysburg Address was a stump speech.

      Phones would not be invented yet.

    8. Re:Obama was an exception, not Trump by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Obama Fails on Government Transparency

      The American people were promised a new era of transparency with the Obama administration. Unfortunately, this promise has not been kept. To be clear: the Obama administration is less transparent than the Bush administration.”

      ...And, from the evidence, the Trump administration is going to be even less transparent.

      I'm not sure that "well, the previous administration was also bad, although not as bad, is a good defense.

    9. Re:Obama was an exception, not Trump by king+neckbeard · · Score: 5, Insightful

      There were three past presidents that could reasonably be expected to have a transparency website. Clinton is arguably grandfathered in because he largely predated mainstream internet usage. Dubya is a war criminal, so that leaves Obama, who had a decent but very much inadequate start.

      We should be very insistent that transparency is a one-way ratchet, as sunlight is a very effective disinfectant.

      --
      This is my signature. There are many like it, but this one is mine.
    10. Re:Obama was an exception, not Trump by king+neckbeard · · Score: 1

      >Progressive
      >Hillary
      +1 funny.

      --
      This is my signature. There are many like it, but this one is mine.
    11. Re:Obama was an exception, not Trump by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

      You quoted Judicial Watch 2 times. They aren't a reliable source. They are a well known highly partisan organization, and would say anything to discredit Obama.
      And the quote for Freedom of information acts, the number of requests was also at an all time high, so I would expect that more of them couldn't be fulfilled. I would be more impressed with a percentage, but even that could be off if the same unavailable documents were requested.

    12. Re:Obama was an exception, not Trump by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Lincoln didn't "ban slavery" but there was an Amendment passed after his death that did. And the emancipation proclamation was a wartime ploy to cause Black revolts in the South to weaken the enemy. Slavery was still legal at the time of Lincoln's death, and practiced in southern states until June after his April death, as the law hadn't reached Texas yet.

      Does nobody know the basics of history anymore?

    13. Re: Obama was an exception, not Trump by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Hi Dipshit,

      Reading comprehension not a strong-point?

    14. Re:Obama was an exception, not Trump by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      By any chance, do you know what the words "reductio ad absurdum" mean? Reductio ad absurdum is the name of a method for proving a statement in a logically valid manner. Yet as far as I can tell PoopJuggler did not use that specific method, so I'm left to wonder if perhaps you got your stock Latin phrases mixed up and meant something else entirely.

    15. Re:Obama was an exception, not Trump by vux984 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      ""Mr. Trumpâ(TM)s policy is a return to the one followed by presidents who preceded Mr. Obama." (NYT). No mention of that in the summary."

      vs

      " White House communications director Michael Dubke said the decision to reverse the Obama-era policy..."

      Hints: "the Obama-era policy" means a policy introduced in the Obama administration.

      And if Trump had created a completely new policy, it would not have been a 'reversal'. A reversal of direction implies going back where you came from.

      It should be fairly reasonable to anyone without a bag of hammers standing in for a brain that *reversing* a policy Obama instituted defaults to a return to the previous policy. aka ... the policy followed by presidents who preceded Obama.

      Yes, its not as explicit as coming out and saying it, but its a SUMMARY, if it included every explicit detail of the full article it would not be a summary. So the summary implied a detail that was made explicit in the full article... so what was your problem?

    16. Re:Obama was an exception, not Trump by quonset · · Score: 0, Flamebait

      with the way people are getting blacklisted for even meeting with trump or his team it makes perfect sense on why they wouldnt want to let that info out

      If you're that much of a coward to not suffer the consequences of your actions, what else are you trying to hide?

      The excuses from the con artist administration are just that, excuses. Bush did the exact same thing when he let the oil companies dictate our energy policy, claiming he needed "unbiased" information.

      The swamp keeps filling and all people do is make excuses for why it's happening.

    17. Re:Obama was an exception, not Trump by tsqr · · Score: 5, Interesting

      If you're that much of a coward to not suffer the consequences of your actions, what else are you trying to hide?

      Why does this have a familiar ring to it? Oh, yeah. It's the essence of the "If you haven't done anything wrong, why is your privacy so important to you" argument.

    18. Re: Obama was an exception, not Trump by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Better to see a wolf an know what it is, and avoid all pretense that it's anything other than a wolf.

    19. Re: Obama was an exception, not Trump by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Except that the president in the Whitehouse can be reasonably expected to disclose who he is meeting with, supposedly on our behalf. So it isn't like personal privacy at all then, is it?

    20. Re:Obama was an exception, not Trump by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's not a defense, rather a condemnation of Obama's administration and their self righteousness. They claimed to be open and transparent, and were absolutely not in any way. It was a lie. Trump is a douche and will be worse, but at least he's not making the pretense.

      The sad part is Obama supporters still believe the Big Lie and don't care. The sadder part is people are cheering Trump.

    21. Re:Obama was an exception, not Trump by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Well something like that anyway, maybe Argumentum ad Rectum or somesuch.

    22. Re:Obama was an exception, not Trump by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Mod -5 for posting AC

    23. Re:Obama was an exception, not Trump by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Judicial Watch is the organization that sued the Obama administration in the first place. It was because of its and CREW's, and the ACLU's pressure that got the administration to fulfill its campaign promise of government transparency in the first place. Plus, you didn't argue any of the facts that it presented.

    24. Re: Obama was an exception, not Trump by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Which, apparently, is better then you could ever do.

    25. Re:Obama was an exception, not Trump by Raenex · · Score: 5, Interesting

      You quoted Judicial Watch 2 times. They aren't a reliable source.

      Your disparaging assessment as an Anonymous Coward with no evidence to support your claim is unreliable. He also linked to a Huffington Post article, well ok it was by Andrew Breitbart, but that article links to a New York Times article:

      "Here at the Caribou on Pennsylvania Avenue, and a few other nearby coffee shops, White House officials have met hundreds of times over the last 18 months with prominent K Street lobbyists -- members of the same industry that President Obama has derided for what he calls its "outsized influence" in the capital.

      On the agenda over espressos and lattes, according to more than a dozen lobbyists and political operatives who have taken part in the sessions, have been front-burner issues like Wall Street regulation, health care rules, federal stimulus money, energy policy and climate control -- and their impact on the lobbyists' corporate clients.

      But because the discussions are not taking place at 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue, they are not subject to disclosure on the visitors' log that the White House releases as part of its pledge to be the "most transparent presidential administration in history." "

    26. Re:Obama was an exception, not Trump by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If you're that much of a coward to not suffer the consequences of your actions, what else are you trying to hide?

      For a start, hiding from bullies that think it is okay to harass, target, and suppress people with political opinions that aren't "liberal" enough.

      (Posting this as AC just for how appropriate it is.)

    27. Re:Obama was an exception, not Trump by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      AC, AC doesn't care about mod ratings, which is why AC posts as AC.

    28. Re:Obama was an exception, not Trump by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Hint: it's not the policy that's the problem, it's Obama.

      What you're seeing now is a ritual cleansing of America after the disgraceful taint of having one of them for a president. All of Obama's policies simply must be reversed, not because they're bad, but just because they're Obama's.

      Witness how "Obamacare" became a lot more popular pretty much on the day Obama left office.

    29. Re:Obama was an exception, not Trump by dbIII · · Score: 1

      with the way people are getting blacklisted for even meeting with trump or his team

      Not as stupid as it sounds when it's looking like we are going into full crony capitalism territory.
      I think we are going to see a lot of scams like the Lockheed Joint Strike Fighter happening.

    30. Re: Obama was an exception, not Trump by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You would rather pay for the golfing trips so infuential people that don't want to be tracked can still have their meetings?

      That is the consequence of your actions.

    31. Re:Obama was an exception, not Trump by AmiMoJo · · Score: 4, Insightful

      When you become president you give up some privacy in exchange for a huge amount of power. That power must be scrutinized by the electorate.

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
    32. Re:Obama was an exception, not Trump by tsqr · · Score: 1

      When you become president you give up some privacy in exchange for a huge amount of power. That power must be scrutinized by the electorate.

      Some, or all? Or just most? Or just everything everyone decides they want at any time?

    33. Re:Obama was an exception, not Trump by zerocool512 · · Score: 1

      Its okay, we can say it. There was fake news before Trump. Like Fox News and Judicial Watch. Isn't that how it goes? If they do not agree with the party in office, they are fake?

      --
      If techs didn't disagree with each other, then Microsoft would rule the world.
    34. Re:Obama was an exception, not Trump by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I think you mean it was a straw man argument.

      Reductio ad absurdum is not a fallacy, it is more an incisive argument showing that an idea does indeed lead to an obviously absurd conclusion, and therefore is most likely false.

    35. Re:Obama was an exception, not Trump by AmiMoJo · · Score: 2

      "some" clearly does not mean "all". Basic English.

      The people you meet at your official government residency seems like a reasonable thing to divulge.

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
    36. Re:Obama was an exception, not Trump by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'm not sure that "well, the previous administration....

      Agreed. I see this comment frequently and I'm sick of it. It is not unique to one side, though the republicans I think are by far the bigger hypocrites. i.e. "It is absolutely unprecedented to filibuster a supreme court nominee." They didn't just filibuster one, they failed to even consider doing their constitutional duty to have a hearing. In other words, they commit a sin that was 10x worse.

      The president nominates. The senate debates. Any filibuster attempted to make sure a reasonable amount of debate occurs is fair game. Then they vote. That's it. The only valid reason for a candidate not eventually getting a vote is the vacancy occurring like two weeks before an election. That is it. The fact that other parties did crap is not an excuse.

      In some cases it may be justified for say a democratic legislature to redraw a partisan map, if they know the republicans are going to do the same, but that is not _right_. We need good men and women with honor and integrity. We need people that we don't have to fact check continuously to be fairly sure what they say is true. The current election should have been about choosing the best of the best. Instead the leader of the free world got chosen by a distorted vote of less than 50%. I'm not fond of Reagan, but he did have a few good quotes. One of them is this:

      Freedom is never more than one generation away from extinction. We didn't pass it to our children in the bloodstream. It must be fought for, protected, and handed on for them to do the same, or one day we will spend our sunset years telling our children and our children's children what it was once like in the United States where men were free.

    37. Re:Obama was an exception, not Trump by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Why does this have a familiar ring to it? Oh, yeah. It's the essence of the "If you haven't done anything wrong, why is your privacy so important to you" argument.

      Context matters.
      That is fallacy when applied to common man.
      It is a truism when applied to the powerful.
      The president is arguably the most powerful person in the world. If there is one person who deserve less privacy than the common man, it is the president of the USA.

    38. Re: Obama was an exception, not Trump by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Agreed. Freedom and transparency should be the way we determine if we are heading in the right direction. More of both; full speed ahead. Less of either; slow down, maybe change course.

    39. Re:Obama was an exception, not Trump by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      He was the worst in a long line of increasingly fascist governments, sure. Big ups to the pres for that one.

    40. Re: Obama was an exception, not Trump by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This needs to be modded +100000 Truth

    41. Re:Obama was an exception, not Trump by ganjadude · · Score: 1

      speaking with the president should not have any consequences... yet these days the left seems to think it should

      --
      have you seen my sig? there are many others like it but none that are the same
  5. Re:This is better than what Obama did by Aqualung812 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Trump will release full visitor logs five years after the current term ends.

    Sure he will. Right after he released his tax returns.

    --
    Grammer Nazis - I mod you "troll" unless you actually add something on-topic. Yes, I know I have mispellings in my sig.
  6. $70k? by Enigma2175 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Wow, we're saving $70,000 over 4 years. Why would you even say something if it's such a low figure? Seriously, it's 0.000000018% of the budget. That's like a guy that makes $100k trumpeting the fact that he saved $0.0018. Less than 2/10s of a penny. I'm sure nobody expected anything different from this president, when your whole reason for getting elected is so your family and friends can loot the treasury "openness" isn't high on your agenda.

    --

    Enigma

    1. Re:$70k? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "A penny saved is a penny earned."

    2. Re:$70k? by sh00z · · Score: 2

      I laughed at it at the time (god, I loved Spy magazine), but Trump personally signed a check for 13 cents back in 1990.

    3. Re:$70k? by ganjadude · · Score: 2, Insightful

      he is going back to what every president before obama did.... obama was the one to break the norm here

      --
      have you seen my sig? there are many others like it but none that are the same
    4. Re: $70k? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I think savings is important wherever you can find it. The fact that Federal govt. spends such amazingly huge amounts of our money (and it *is* our money, after all -- since it comes from taxes) shouldn't mean they can ignore wasteful spending on a small scale.

      That is foolish, it is better to realize that that sum is meaningless and unimportant, that way you aren't deceived into cheering over an empty victory.

      Much like Trump's oversized check to the Park Service. It cost more to hold that press conference.

      I'm not exactly a Trump supporter, but things are so polarized right now, I hear nothing but negative talk about pretty much any decision the guy makes in office.

      Then you should notice how the Trump supporters cheer and praise everything they can about his empty accomplishments, and it would do you a lot of benefit to recognize that boasting for the hollowness it has.

      In reality? I see no value in making visitor logs immediately available for anybody who decided to visit the White House? I would expect they'd have a bit tighter security than to just make that info openly available, actually. So Obama, IMO, went about that the wrong way.

      Ah, the value is that you know who did go into the place, and don't have to wonder who let David Nunes into the building.

      Obama did to right.

    5. Re:$70k? by sh00z · · Score: 5, Insightful

      If you want to get upset, get upset about the cost of those golf weekends. We the taxpayers are paying seven figures for each of Trump's golf weekends. Guess where the money for the hotel rooms for His Orangeness and the Secret Service entourage are going. That's right, into Trump's pockets!

    6. Re:$70k? by fustakrakich · · Score: 1

      Careful, a penny earned is a penny taxed...

      --
      “He’s not deformed, he’s just drunk!”
    7. Re:$70k? by Altrag · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Oh, so $70,000 is meaningless to you?

      No, but as the GP mathed out, its pretty meaningless in relative to an entire country. And spread over 4 years no less. The proper comparison is whether or not 0.00018 cents is meaningless to me (it is.)

      I think savings is important wherever you can find it.

      Agreed.

      they can ignore wasteful spending on a small scale.

      So having government transparency is wasteful to you? Sure this is a small drop in the transparency bucket but its still something they let us know before that they no longer will be. And just like every thousandth of a penny counts (apparently,) so does every bit of truth we can wring out of the government -- especially under Trump who seems to like lying to the people even when he's got absolutely no reason to do so.

      I hear nothing but negative talk about pretty much any decision the guy makes in office

      Because he makes basically nothing but bad decisions. Even his best decisions are questionable depending on your brand of ethics.

      I see no value in making visitor logs immediately available for anybody who decided to visit the White House

      Good for you. That doesn't mean nobody else sees value in it. And of course while I personally give few to no craps about who visited the White House, we get back to the issue of transparency -- its just one more thing they're hiding from the people.

    8. Re:$70k? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Oh, so $70,000 is meaningless to you?

      I think savings is important wherever you can find it.

      Let's cancel ONE fighter jet then. Ten? 100?
      Let's not fly off to Florida every weekend.
      Don't forget Trump's party spent MILLIONS on Benghazi witch-hunts

    9. Re:$70k? by king+neckbeard · · Score: 5, Insightful

      If the website stops 1 Tomahawk missile from being fired, it's paid for itself several times over. The problem isn't that there's an attempt at financial responsibility. It's that the only time some people seem to care is when it's something useful, and never when it's a corporate handout or war profiteering.

      --
      This is my signature. There are many like it, but this one is mine.
    10. Re:$70k? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It isn't our Money. We have agreed to use currency owned by the government of the United States as legal tender. It would only be our money if we lived in a democracy, which clearly we do not anymore.

    11. Re:$70k? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The Trump administration is so far the definition of penny-wise pound foolish.

      With this compared to the cost of the cruise missiles fired at Syria as a perfect example. A 60,000,000 cost but ignore that because of a 70,000 (three orders of magnitude less but) savings!

    12. Re:$70k? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      I am a Trump supporter, and I think if he wants to save money he can do it by not going golfing in Florida every week.

    13. Re:$70k? by slack_justyb · · Score: 1

      shouldn't mean they can ignore wasteful spending on a small scale.

      Irrational argument #14 Value is at times a subjective thing, what you don't see value in to you, can hold immense value to someone else. Especially considering the point being talked about, that for a lot of people there's just nothing to gain from the information. People can do cost/benefit analysis and what not to justify/quantify those things, but ultimately it just boils down to what sounds better in the end. I digress though because its value isn't something I'd like to talk about. Their argument that we should cut it because it is a waste in spending is seriously short sighted when compared to the billions that are spent elsewhere, be them of value or not. The argument that it is useless is subjective, but the argument that this saves us money is dumb. So yeah, given the scale, $70k is meaningless, trying to argue it isn't is just silly.

      An official said it would save $70,000 through 2020 and that the removed disclosures, salaries and appointments would be integrated into WhiteHouse.gov in the coming months.

      If they want to say, "It was a wasteful program because it gave so little back to the public" by all means, they should just go with that. The end. No further explanation required. But adding the argument that we need to nickle and dime our budget of several trillions of dollars, that's like NYC planners doing zoning surveys based on ant hill locations. I get that it wasn't their lead argument, but someone just adding in that it saves money is really silly. So parent has a point, why even bring up the savings? They're totally meaningless. You don't like the program, then just cut it and move on. There's no need for them to resort to silly dollar figures to justify their position. It just looks silly even bringing it up. The whole security thing they talked about is enough and is subjective enough to be the main point of debate. Trying to state cost savings in their argument or in this thread is nonsensical. So before any more of us (myself included) make a mountain out of a mole hill, let's look past the $70k before we get too tightly wound up about that figure, just saying.

      Still nothing but respect for you all.

    14. Re:$70k? by Dutchmaan · · Score: 5, Insightful

      "Oh, so $70,000 is meaningless to you? I think savings is important wherever you can find it."

      I'm just going to say "Mar a Lago" and "go fuck yourself"... and leave it at that.

    15. Re: $70k? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Who the HELL mods an AC up!

    16. Re: $70k? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Mod -5 for being a coward

    17. Re:$70k? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That is not all that uncommon. The property my step mom has is split between 2 different counties. A bulk of the property is in one, but she dutifully goes to the tax assessors office to pay them for the small portion in the other county. Grand total: 0.01. That's right, a penny.

    18. Re:$70k? by Xyrus · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Exactly. All these fucks bitching every time Obama ordered a god damn sandwich aren't saying jack shit about the millions of dollars that's being blown for hist weekend golf trips and making sure Rapunzel stays in her tower in NY.

      Nothing but a bunch of fucking hypocrites.

      --
      ~X~
    19. Re: $70k? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Obama did to right.

      The Obama administration regularly faked the visitor's logs, by editing out anyone they didn't want to admit was meeting with the President or White House staff. Or just not bothering to record hundreds of guests. Or by recording the names of people that didn't actually show up, but were cleared to do so. Or by holding meetings 'off site' so they wouldn't show up in the logs.

      In other words, the Obama Administration's policy was to distribute flat out falsehoods, rather than transparency. Hiding everything isn't better, but don't dare pretend "Obama did it right".

    20. Re:$70k? by Enigma2175 · · Score: 4, Funny

      “Can you believe that, with all of the problems and difficulties facing the U.S., President Obama spent the day playing golf. Worse than Carter.”
      -Donald Trump

      I guess all the country's problems are fixed now since Trump is playing so much golf. Way to go Donald!

      --

      Enigma

    21. Re:$70k? by AmiMoJo · · Score: 3, Informative

      He did actually promise not to play any golf while in office... At this point I'm not even sure it's worth mentioning though, because literally everything he does was condemned by his earlier self on video or in a tweet.

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
    22. Re: $70k? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The Obama administration regularly faked the visitor's logs, by editing out anyone they didn't want to admit was meeting with the President or White House staff.

      Proof? Or is this another illegal voter situation? You know, where we're supposed to trust you?

      Or just not bothering to record hundreds of guests.

      If you want to demand politicians give up their personal life, make that demand, don't whine about it.

      Or by recording the names of people that didn't actually show up, but were cleared to do so.

      I'm baffled that you think this is a problem. They made appointments, didn't they?

      Or by holding meetings 'off site' so they wouldn't show up in the logs.

      Yeah, and making millions off it...Oh wait, that is Trump.

      In other words, the Obama Administration's policy was to distribute flat out falsehoods, rather than transparency. Hiding everything isn't better, but don't dare pretend "Obama did it right".

      So far, you're not making a convincing argument, one of your complaints was keeping records of who made appointments, which is just silly.

    23. Re:$70k? by serviscope_minor · · Score: 0

      he is going back to what every president before obama did.... obama was the one to break the norm here

      And that's good because? The only reason it's good for you is because you're a completely bonged-out Trumpanzee who takes as an axiom that literally everything Obama did is bad no matter what simply because Obama did it.

      It is of course impossible to argue with you since you live up to your username and are impervious to anything except THC.

      --
      SJW n. One who posts facts.
    24. Re:$70k? by serviscope_minor · · Score: 1

      And yet you *still* have people coming on to the thread (see SuperKendall's post upthread) saying "but Hillary".

      --
      SJW n. One who posts facts.
    25. Re:$70k? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Exactly. All these fucks bitching every time Obama ordered a god damn sandwich aren't saying jack shit about the millions of dollars that's being blown for hist weekend golf trips and making sure Rapunzel stays in her tower in NY.

      Nothing but a bunch of fucking hypocrites.

      They weren't bitching every time Obama ordered a god damn sandwich. They were bitching because Obama ordered a god damn sandwich and had the nerve to enter the restaurant in the front entrance instead of the kitchen like his "kind" were supposed to do.

      There... much better.

    26. Re:$70k? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      He did actually promise not to play any golf while in office

      I guess technically he's holding that up, he's not in the office playing golf, he's at his resort!

      ...I'll see myself out now

    27. Re:$70k? by aquacrayfish · · Score: 1

      People tend to stick to talking points when new arguments based on facts can't be made. Remember, all along it's been about 'how you feel', not facts.

    28. Re:$70k? by serviscope_minor · · Score: 1

      I think we can still blame Hillary, viz:

      I used to be rational about politics, but them Hillary came along. So it's her fault I voted for Trump.

      --
      SJW n. One who posts facts.
    29. Re:$70k? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      ...and the fact that they close 5th avenue twice daily for the school run.

    30. Re:$70k? by Scroatzilla · · Score: 1

      Ah, the old unoriginal and oft-debunked "Republicans are racist" argument. Good job. Too bad there is no "like" capability here, because this would surely get you lots. Seriously, though-- I challenge you to examine the racist-ness of your own post and then imagine how much racism would diminish if people like you would stop calling everyone a racist!

    31. Re:$70k? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      >Ah, the old unoriginal and oft-debunked "Republicans are racist" argument. Good job. Too bad there is no "like" capability here, because this would surely get you lots. Seriously, though-- I challenge you to examine the racist-ness of your own post and then imagine how much racism would diminish if people like you would stop calling everyone a racist!

      Go back to Facebook. Give the US thirty years. It'll turn blue. Those 'pesky minorities' keep breeding and wanting to vote liberal.

    32. Re:$70k? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      He's just following the example set.

      Obama did all this stupid shit. Nobody said a word. So you must all be ok with it.
      What? It's a problem now that trump is doing the same thing? well... you're just stupid and nobody is listening to your hypocrite ass.

    33. Re:$70k? by sh00z · · Score: 1

      Obama vacationed every other weekend at a resort that he himself owned? I guess I missed those headlines. You just don't get it, do you? Even if everything else was equal, and Obama had taken as many golf weekends as Trump is on course do do (and it's nowhere close), he would have been doing it at facilities where the taxpayer money spent would have gone back into the local economy. When Trump spends the weekend at his own resort, he's double-dipping on the costs. Not only is he getting paid for his time away from the office, but the bulk of the costs of feeding and housing him and his secret service detail are being paid to... Donald Trump. That's not just a conflict of interest. That's corrupt self-dealing on unimaginable scale. That chocolate cake he raved about while he couldn't remember who he bombed? We, the taxpayers didn't just buy it FOR him, we bought it FROM him, and then gave it back to him. And he rubbed our noses in it (more so his supporters who don't even realize that they're being conned).

    34. Re:$70k? by aquacrayfish · · Score: 1

      Sounds like a nice passive-aggressive bumper sticker. I'm in!

    35. Re:$70k? by ganjadude · · Score: 1

      i... actually dont support trump..... so yeah...try again, maybe without all the ad hom

      --
      have you seen my sig? there are many others like it but none that are the same
  7. Re:This is better than what Obama did by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    No.

  8. They were a sham to begin with by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    They were propaganda to begin with. Politically sensitive meetings simply occurred off site at nearby locations.

  9. We learn best by living... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    ... with the consequences of wrong choices.

    Nothing, in my view, so excellently exemplifies this principle as the quadrennial US election.

  10. Re:This is better than what Obama did by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Troll

    Yep. Obama pretended to be open but ran one of the least transparent administrations in the history of the United States.

    It is vital to national security that these logs be kept secret of a limited time. Trump is returning America to the greatness we once knew and part of that is making it possible for people to meet with the President without the left-wing media attacking him over it. Why do you think he has to do most of his business at Mar-A-Lago right now?

  11. Trump should repeal the 1st Amendment by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    I don't know why he tolerates all the criticism. He's the president. He needs to start rounding up the whiners.

    Stand tall, President Trump! We're on your side, no matter what!

    1. Re:Trump should repeal the 1st Amendment by p4nther2004 · · Score: 1

      That's right. Criticize Trump and you go to Jail/Deported! Hail Trump!

    2. Re:Trump should repeal the 1st Amendment by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      For eight years, if you criticized Obama, you were publicly labeled as a racist/misogynist/homophobe/bigot.

    3. Re: Trump should repeal the 1st Amendment by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Obama isn't a woman or a homosexual (no, really and he's not Kenyan either). It seems you don't even know the meaning of the words you used - how typically Trump.

    4. Re:Trump should repeal the 1st Amendment by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      for 8 years you claimed he was muslim, kenyan, communist nazi. BECAUSE he was black and in charge.

      Because you're racists and hated not having a whitey in charge. You didn't like a white democrat in, but you held up the government for 8 years when it was a black democrat.

      You are called a racist because you are.

    5. Re:Trump should repeal the 1st Amendment by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Don't give him ideas!

  12. Re:Thanks DNC! by ganjadude · · Score: 1, Insightful

    or we would look more like venezuela

    --
    have you seen my sig? there are many others like it but none that are the same
  13. Who the fuck cares by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Really? Who cares about a visitor log to the White House?

    I guess I'm just wondering why this is even something to talk about

    1. Re:Who the fuck cares by cant_get_a_good_nick · · Score: 1

      Hard to Drain the Swamp if the swamp comes in and lobbies every day with a suitcase full of cash. Trump was elected on the idea that he was above being bought and manipulated, yet here he is making it easier to be manipulated. At best, very very bad optics for his "clean the politics as usual" at wors, an invitation to graft.

      So, Day 88, not even first hundred days, he has no big successes, a few major failures, and probably not one campaign promise that hasn't been crushed. arguably getting his supreme court nominee in, when he controlled the senate, is his best success, and that's mostly procedural.

  14. Good decision by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Chief Judge Merrick Garland - Obama's nominee for Supreme Court Justice - even agrees:
    https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2013/08/30/white-house-visitors-foia-appeals-court/2742823/

    "In both the 1974 FOIA Amendments and the 1978 Presidential Records Act, Congress made clear that it did not want documents like the appointment calendars of the president and his close advisors to be subject to disclosure under FOIA," Chief Judge Merrick Garland wrote for the three-judge panel. "Granting Judicial Watch's request for certain visitor records, however, would effectively disclose the contents of those calendars."

    1. Re:Good decision by king+neckbeard · · Score: 1

      Yeah, Garland is a corporate cocksucker. That Obama tried to appoint him in his stupid attempt to appease the GOP doesn't change that fact.

      --
      This is my signature. There are many like it, but this one is mine.
    2. Re:Good decision by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Let me ask you this. Can you name anything that's the Democrats fault? I ask because I have noticed that everything the Democrats have ever done that was bad somehow is the Republicans fault. Your post right here is evidence of this. A guy Obama nominated who sucked, is the GOPs fault. Riiiiight. You do realize this is why basically everybody who isn't a Democrat views the Democrats as immature children, right? Like, for christ sake, take responsibility. In your view it's never your team. Seriously, this sort of behavior. It's not helpful. If you can't grow up, just shut up.

    3. Re:Good decision by king+neckbeard · · Score: 1

      Yeah, the Dems have sabotaged the left, typically because they think they're so fucking smart by using "triangulation" (i.e. giving up before you even start the fight), and are arguably MORE to blame for the rightward shift of our politics than the Republicans. I would LOVE it if Obama, Schumer, Pelosi, and the whole Clinton clan were all shot into the sun. With friends like them, we don't need enemies.

      You are accusing me of never blaming my team, when it's the very opposite. I want the majority of 'my team' to be dead or at least gone from politics. Then we might reach some reasonably sane policies. I want the left to be on the left (particularly the progressive flavor), and the right on the right (ideally the libertarian flavor). The Clinton wing wants it to be center-right and goddamn-crazy-right.

      Regarding transparency, I'm far more extreme on that than anybody currently in a position of power. I want those elected to office to cede certain rights (such as most contracts) for 5-10 years, and I want effectively everything that isn't weapon schematics and troop positions to be public record.

      --
      This is my signature. There are many like it, but this one is mine.
  15. Re:This is better than what Obama did by PoopJuggler · · Score: 0

    Yeah, Mar A Lago is an un-spyable, incorruptible, super-secure stronghold... Perfect for national security issues.

  16. Laws and Regulations........ by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

    Can someone please point me to the law or regulation requiring a sitting president or president-elect to release his or her tax returns?

    Can someone please point me to the law or regulation that requires our government or government officials to maintain social media accounts?

    Can someone please point me to the law or regulation that requires the executive branch to make White House visitor logs available for public review?

    If you are going to be upset that they are no longer willingly providing this information, then perhaps the best thing to do would be to pass a law requiring them to do so. For those unfamiliar with our process here in the US, that would involve action from the legislative branch. Contact your legislative representatives and demand they do something if you are really that upset.

    It really seems most people who would complain about the shuttering of open.gov let their outrage get the best of them before they finished the article, as it clearly states, "and that the removed disclosures, salaries and appointments would be integrated into WhiteHouse.gov in the coming months.". Ergo, all that information is going to be retained, its just moving locations.

    1. Re:Laws and Regulations........ by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yeah good point, nobody is contacting their representatives, that's definitely the problem.

    2. Re:Laws and Regulations........ by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      All except the visitor logs. Nice try, that glossing over...still, you communicate better than that alleged professional communications forehead guy, Spicer.

    3. Re:Laws and Regulations........ by serviscope_minor · · Score: 1

      Can someone please point me to the law or regulation requiring a sitting president or president-elect to release his or her tax returns?

      Can we simply skip the legal != moral debate and jump right to Godwin?

      --
      SJW n. One who posts facts.
  17. Re:Thanks DNC! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Offtopic

    No, more like Norway, but with lower taxes. The Venezuela leader is a wicked fascist, not a socialist. You can always tell the civilized countries by their prisons. Too bad we don't have any civilized countries in the tropics.

  18. Re:This is better than what Obama did by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Informative

    Firstly, tax returns are not presidential records. Secondly, from the summary, which starts with a negative tone but includes a few tidbits at the end:

    "the removed disclosures, salaries and appointments would be integrated into WhiteHouse.gov in the coming months"

    It seems they mostly ended the contract to host open.gov. Perhaps the contractor was an Obama friend, who knows.

    Of course, we can't know the truth just yet since both the White House and the press (ex. Techdirt) have no credibility.

  19. Re:This is better than what Obama did by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Why aren't you? This is something that should be transparent for any fucking voter to look over.

  20. Re:This is better than what Obama did by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Keep up the good work Comrade! MAGA!

  21. tax returns irrelevant point by iggymanz · · Score: 0

    No president candidate nor elect is under any legal obligation whatsoever to release tax returns, not relevant to open.gov discussion.

    Now it may be a good idea to make revealing tax returns a law, but right now that's just a good idea

  22. Trump prevails, of course. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I like how Slashdotters fall over themselves to justify what the orange cheeto does or says. Goes to show how spineless they are: any values they claimed to hold in the last decade - net neutrality, openness of government, name it - are dross to be disposed of in the wake of their God Emperor.

  23. Re:Thanks DNC! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The democrats visit log would contain kindergarten visits and publicly know official visits so that their gullible supporters can be pleased. But nothing on bagmen visits (especially in the case of HRC) and other back-and-forth to be swept under the rug.

  24. Re:This is better than what Obama did by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    It is vital to national security that these logs be kept secret of a limited time.

    Really, how?

    Trump is returning America to the whiteness we once knew and part of that is making it possible for russians, donors, and dictators to meet with the President without anyone knowing. Why do you think he has to do most of his business at Mar-A-Lago right now?

    Because it puts taxpayer money in his own pocket when he goes there.

  25. It was a token gesture anyway. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Even with this policy, there was plenty of secrecy under Obama (as under all previous presidents). More than enough to hide the ways in which they betray us.

    They hate public protests, so they hate openness, regardless of what they say. The like getting away with evil, too. And every singly one of them (zero exceptions) is a liar. Transparency is the *only* way we can keep them honest....and that is precisely why they do everything they can to not have it.

  26. Trump already released tax return by SuperKendall · · Score: 1, Troll

    Just before Racheal Maddow Released Trumps' tax return for him, Trump himself released one year of taxes - in which Trump payed over *$30 million*. IN income tax. For one year. So what is going to be exciting about the other years, finding out that every year he pays ~30 million in personal income taxes?

    In just one year Trump is paying more in tax than the entire population of Slashdot will over a lifetime.

    I could see some reason to want to see Trump's taxes before anything was released, but now people who call to see more of what we already know just look like total goobers. It's like if there were marches after Al Capones Vault was opened demanding they go back in and look at all the bricks. You are literally a brick-chaser.

    --
    "There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
    1. Re:Trump already released tax return by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Any you know any of this how?

      Just because a person didn't murder anyone in one year of their life doesn't mean they didn't murder anyone in the "other years" of their life. Stop being such a donkey.

    2. Re:Trump already released tax return by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Fuck off Kendall you facist sock puppet cunt.

    3. Re: Trump already released tax return by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Just because someone doesn't report murdering someone doesn't mean it didn't happen either. Haters will always find cause to hate.

    4. Re:Trump already released tax return by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      We've seen a couple of pages of Trump's tax forms. That's not "releasing" them, that's mere unofficial excerpts. Other presidential candidates released 10 years of tax forms. Heck, even the Trump campaign requested 10 years of tax forms from the people they were considering for Vice President.

      He should release them. The amount he pays is irrelevant. People should know how much the person in charge is paying in order to assess for themselves whether there are business conflicts of interest or whether political changes to the tax system "coincidentally" enormously personally benefit the one proposing them.

      Every prior candidate for the last 40 years did it, including at least one of them while under audit. What's Trump's problem? If he has nothing to hide it shouldn't bother him.

    5. Re:Trump already released tax return by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's not that simple. There are a number of reasons why it's worth being able to view a President's tax returns, especially in the case of Trump.

      One of Trump's stated goals is tax reform, which could be good depending on how it's implemented. However, if Trump is going to make significant changes to the tax code, the tax returns would be useful in determining the extent to which Trump would benefit from any proposed reforms. More generally speaking, disclosing financial interests is important in identifying conflicts of interest.

      It's also pretty clear that Russia attempted to influence the outcome of the election. Even the Republicans generally accept that Russia was meddling in the election. We don't know if Trump was complicit in the meddling, but the tax returns could identify potential financial links to Russia. Again, more generally speaking, Americans have a legitimate reason to want to know if there are potential financial interests, foreign or domestic, that could be used to influence a President.

      As a researcher who is partially funded by federal programs, I'm required to complete a form to disclose financial information that could possibly be a conflict of interest. Compared to what the President is responsible for, the importance of my work is tiny. If I have to disclose financial information, it isn't too much to ask for the President to do so. The issue isn't how much Trump did or did not pay in taxes, but whether there are conflicts of interest or financial interests that would expose him to being manipulated.

  27. Re: Thanks DNC! by ArmoredDragon · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I think that under Bernie it would be more like France.

  28. Even worse than Obama by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Firstly, tax returns are not presidential records. Secondly, from the summary, which starts with a negative tone but includes a few tidbits at the end:

    "the removed disclosures, salaries and appointments would be integrated into WhiteHouse.gov in the coming months"

    Which part of the sentence "The Trump Administration will not disclose logs of those who visit the White House complex" were you having difficulty understanding? There was a press conference. Spicer said clearly and distinctly "we will not release this information."

    here's a different cite, if you don't like the first one. http://www.cnn.com/2017/04/14/...

    1. Re:Even worse than Obama by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No need to parrot the fake news. Here's the conference, in which he doesn't say that.

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T-edAZHE6Ws

  29. Re:This is better than what Obama did by king+neckbeard · · Score: 2

    No, it's vital to national security that the government be responsible to the people. You know what happened when there wasn't transparency about Iraq? ISIS happened.

    --
    This is my signature. There are many like it, but this one is mine.
  30. He did what he said by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    "Take back our government'

    He never said who he was taking it back for.
    It doesn't appear to be the bulk of his voting base.

  31. Re: This is better than what Obama did by ArmoredDragon · · Score: 1

    And why should it be? Personally, I couldn't care less about Trump, but I'm at a loss as for why this is suddenly important.

    Are you concerned that Trump uses a loophole somewhere to avoid paying taxes? If so, who wouldn't do that? I don't know of one person who would deliberately not avoid paying taxes when given the opportunity.

    Besides, it would seem to be consistent with his overall message about wanting to reduce taxation. If you were demanding the tax return of somebody who is in favor of higher taxes, then that *may* in some way be valid, but I still wouldn't see a need for it as I'm sure that person would try to avoid taxes as well, even though they may want to see whatever loophole they used go away.

  32. Trump Administration Refusing To Disclose by tgibson · · Score: 3, Funny
    1. Re:Trump Administration Refusing To Disclose by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The Onion???? Seriously????

    2. Re:Trump Administration Refusing To Disclose by guises · · Score: 2

      No, of course it's not serious. The Onion is a joke newspaper, so it's: The Onion, humorously.

  33. Vote Regressive! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Should've voted Regressive! This would have been taken care of within minutes.

  34. Peanuts by EnsilZah · · Score: 4, Funny

    23K a year may sound like peanuts, but imagine, if it saves him but one trip to Mar A Lago to meet with undisclosed donors, we're starting to talk real money here.

  35. Comrade CHUMP by JimSadler · · Score: 1

    The fool will try to hide all of his crimes any way he can. He is simply a Putin wannabe.

  36. Re:This is better than what Obama did by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    No, ISIS happened because Obama failed to take the situation in the Middle East seriously and let it spiral out of control. If he were willing to support our troops in Iraq, ISIS would never have happened. ISIS is entirely Obama's fault for being weak on national security.

  37. Good move by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I'm sorry to have to be the one to say this, because most of the time I fall on the libertarian side of things, but this should have been done long ago. The people are not entitled to make the President walk around with a microscope up his ass. Running the most prosperous nation on the plant is a complex task, and microscopes only show part of the picture. Making the President a slave to "gotcha" politics and the crybaby minority is only going to interfere with the diligent prosecution of our laws.

    1. Re:Good move by king+neckbeard · · Score: 1

      How is it Libertarian to TRUST the government? I want all of our politicians to have bombs embedded in their necks, and if they even look at a lobbyist, it goes off. IMO, the president SHOULD be a quasi-slave position to preserve the liberty of the other 300 million of us, plus the 7 billion others that occupy this rock.

      --
      This is my signature. There are many like it, but this one is mine.
  38. Drain the Swamp by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    ... and move its contents to Mar-a-lago.

  39. Voluntary Disclosure Is Not Openness by Artagel · · Score: 1

    The whole point of laws like FOIA is that the law says that the information is public. If each White House decides what it lays open and what it does not, then it will only lay open the stuff that it does not care if people see. So you meet someone somewhere else if you don't want them showing up on the visitor log. That makes a log disclosure sooooo effective.

  40. Re: This is better than what Obama did by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    "Sure he will. Right after he released his tax returns."

    He has planned to release them the day after Obama releases his school transcripts.

  41. Re: This is better than what Obama did by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Because he said he'd release them and as long as he doesn't, that's one more data point in the big fucking liar column.

  42. Isn't it a bit early... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    for the Olympic gymnastics competition?

  43. Re: This is better than what Obama did by darthsilun · · Score: 5, Insightful

    It's not suddenly important. It's been important all along. Trying to claim otherwise is one of those Alternate Facts that Kellyann likes to blather about.

    I couldn't care less if he used a loophole. Actually, I do care – I want a loophole too. Or I want his loophole closed. What I really care about though is that he might have sources of income that would indicate he has conflicts of interest. We already do have laws that prohibit conflicts of interest by executive branch members. Google "emoluments" for more info. While some claim those laws don't apply to the president, no court has yet ruled on it, and every president going back to at least Reagan has both released his taxes and put his assets into a blind trust to avoid the appearance of conflicts of interest.

    In the end, it's about how it looks. And Trump just looks bad for refusing to do those things. And a lot of other things too.

  44. Open Government Policies, OK by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Logs of people visiting the White House? Would you want people to know who visited the White House and did business with Trump LLC for future contracts?
    How about the director of..... Isis? He sends his aides to the White House to talk to Trump.
    If I was the Pres having parties with $35million dollar entrance fee. I wouldn't let anyone near my log of names. Unless the buyer wants to double on that $35million dollars. Yeah! Highway to $Billion ain't that hard. Just got to get the laws on your side.

  45. Drained the Swamps STINK MORE! by bussdriver · · Score: 1

    Clearly the billionaire and his voters know nothing about swamps. As far as "dem 'gaters" -- dangerous creatures don't exist in most swamps.

    The white house website hosting that information instead? About as likely as his tax records being released.

  46. Re:Drained Swamps STINK MORE! by bussdriver · · Score: 1

    subject correction. was in too much of a hurry.

  47. Listen up by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    If you have not learned this by now it is time you learn. Trump could rape a 5 year old with a machine gun and his supporters will somehow justify it. Trump could pull his little pecker out on the news and pee on his wife and his supporters will talk about how great he is making the country. It doesn't matter anymore to them. Trump is a rich White male that won the White House on the promise of returning the US to the days of lynchings and White sheets. His supporters don't give a fuck about any logic or reason. Most of them are neonazis thinking they are building the 4th Reich. Obama could have been the best president in US history and they don't give two shits because he was Black. You will never change their mind. Get over it. They chose their side and will not listen to you no matter how much sense you make. It's time you all wake up and realize the hard truth. The truth is there are millions of dickheaded dumb ass hateful people in this world that are stuck in shit head mode. They will never listen or care to listen to you, unless you are filthy rich and pushing their backwards ideology.

  48. Once again, Hillary did not win. by SuperKendall · · Score: 0, Flamebait

    Will my bigoted worldview compel me to sell out my country to Russia, when a Russian agent assumes the Presidency?

    I know y'all think she really won because of the popular vote, but Hilary did not win the election.

    She was the one with all of the ties to Russia, from uranium sales to lots of sketchy contributions from various Russian sources.

    Trump meanwhile has pretty much no connection to Russia apart from a fondness for ornate gold.

    --
    "There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
    1. Re:Once again, Hillary did not win. by dbIII · · Score: 3, Informative

      Hillary is no longer relevant.
      No ties to Russia? So those bank loans and all the rest don't count? I think Trump has a bridge to sell to you if you are that gullible.

    2. Re:Once again, Hillary did not win. by RatPh!nk · · Score: 4, Informative

      You mean the uranium deal regarding Russia’s nuclear power agency when it bought a controlling interest in a Toronto-based company? Which owns mines, mills and tracts of land in Wyoming, Utah and other U.S. states equal to about 20 percent of U.S. uranium production capacity (not produced uranium)? When Clinton was secretary of state, but didn’t have the power to approve or reject the deal and the State Department was only one of nine federal agencies that signed off on the deal, and only President Barack Obama had the power to veto it? That uranium "scandal"?

      I tried to look up "Clinton campaign contributions". But mostly got Breitbart and FoxNews.....oh! and the ever accurate "shadowproof.com"

      Of course Trump doesn't have annnny connections to Russia except "ornate gold" - I think in particular he FBI, NSA, CIA and both House and Senate Intelligence committees are investigating this love, in fact. Nothing at all there....probably

      --
      Argh. The laws of science be a harsh mistress.
    3. Re:Once again, Hillary did not win. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You are trying to fix stupid it can't be done.

    4. Re:Once again, Hillary did not win. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Furthermore, as the politifact link says, despite purchasing the extraction rights as part of a larger deal, they they never acquired export rights. So all that uranium was never at risk of leaving the US anyway.

      But holy shit the lies about that so-called scandal are deafening. Almost like there was a vast conspiracy to bamboozle the american public.

    5. Re: Once again, Hillary did not win. by king+neckbeard · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Oh please, the Russian plot narrative is ridiculous because of how much of a manchild Trump is. He's far too temperamental to reliably be part of a coherent plan. Focus on his actual shitty policies instead of trying to pretend that Clinton didn't ruin her own campaign.

      --
      This is my signature. There are many like it, but this one is mine.
    6. Re: Once again, Hillary did not win. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Lol, best fake news comment of the night.

    7. Re:Once again, Hillary did not win. by serviscope_minor · · Score: 2

      Furthermore, as the politifact link says, despite purchasing the extraction rights as part of a larger deal, they they never acquired export rights. So all that uranium was never at risk of leaving the US anyway.

      Likely they bought it for the interest in the Kazakhstan. You see, Kazakhstan is number 1 exporter of uranium. All other countries have inferior uranium.

      --
      SJW n. One who posts facts.
    8. Re: Once again, Hillary did not win. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I think you might want to watch that documentary again.

    9. Re: Once again, Hillary did not win. by king+neckbeard · · Score: 1

      Of course he's not really part of the plan, he's a tool of the plan, but his mercurial nature is part of his vulnerabilities. It's what makes him desirable.

      No, it makes it a shitty plan. Someone like Dubya makes sense. He's not bright, but he's predictable. Trump might change his mind 4 or 5 times during a staff meeting, or even a few times within a single sentence.

      Anybody who isn't a moron can plainly see that the Russian agenda is far more anti-Clinton than pro-Trump. Putin has reasons to be against Clinton, and I would actually agree with a lot of them. Unfortunately, because Trump is, as I said, unpredictable, he just turned Syria into more of a shitstorm, by interfering in the same kind of way that Clinton would have.

      The actual cause for his shitty policies is because he's a bought-off whore, and loves to lick the boots of those more powerful than him. Most of the biggest policy examples of him being a Russian agent are explained just as well or better as him sucking dick for the fossil fuel industry.

      --
      This is my signature. There are many like it, but this one is mine.
    10. Re:Once again, Hillary did not win. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Thar ya go, in the future opensecrets.org you can look up anyone

      https://www.opensecrets.org/pf...

    11. Re:Once again, Hillary did not win. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Talk about a Putin Puppy: Obama gave him the Crimea and half of the Ukraine, pulled missile defense out of Poland, told Putins rep that "I'll be able to be a lot more flexible after the election", let Putin establish 3 bases in Syria, and bomb the crap out of the Assad resistance while pretending he was going after ISIS, and has supplied Iran with piles of forbidden weapons that will be used against us and our friends, and gave Iran Billions to give to Russia in exchange .... WHO IS REALLY in alliance with Putin??

  49. Hey guess how automation gets installed by SuperKendall · · Score: 1

    Plus, mining is gradually being automated.

    That sounds like a LOT of jobs right there, perfect to transition a lot of miners into retirement.

    Looks like Trump was right again, mining jobs are coming back after all.

    Not to mention that now China is buying a lot more coal from the U.S. than they were prior to Trump.

    Trump Trump Trump!

    --
    "There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
    1. Re:Hey guess how automation gets installed by Tablizer · · Score: 1

      I'm not sure what you mean. Engineering and technician jobs? That's not exactly "coming back". Techie's are not T's common base.

      Plus, the R&D may not be done in the same state as the mining. The R&D may even be done in China!

    2. Re:Hey guess how automation gets installed by SuperKendall · · Score: 1

      I'm not sure what you mean. Engineering and technician jobs?

      Sigh. That's not how this works. That's not how ANY of this works.

      Come back when you know how the hell things get built and installed. Like anything physical across the entire planet... you have lived in your sheltered bubble for far too long.

      --
      "There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
    3. Re:Hey guess how automation gets installed by Tablizer · · Score: 1

      First, they hire a neckbeard without people skills...

    4. Re:Hey guess how automation gets installed by squiggleslash · · Score: 1

      I think what SuperKendell is saying is that Trump's genius plan is to replace American coal mining jobs with Chinese factory jobs manufacturing machines to replace the miners.

      --
      You are not alone. This is not normal. None of this is normal.
    5. Re:Hey guess how automation gets installed by Tablizer · · Score: 1
  50. Re:Thanks DNC! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Ohhh! I just love all you butthurt Shillarys downmodding the truth over and over! You won't accept the real reason why you're a bunch of loser dweebs, even dumber than the Trump wackos. Yep, Dumb and Dumber, republicans and democrats, in that order.

  51. Re:This is better than what Obama did by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    He already did for the last 8 years.

  52. Re: Thanks DNC! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Norway's socialism is funded by oil. Norway has a huge amount oil per person. Over 90% of their federal budget is supported by oil income

  53. Open Records by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Ye Gods!!!
    Can you people just get over it??? Acting like a bunch of spoiled little babies!
    Please, we heard crickets from y'all when Obama sealed everything from from his transcripts to his supposed dissertation, his grades and who financed his college. Obama's supposedly transparent administration was anything but transparent for the almost decade he was in office. Transparent? For whom?

  54. 70,000??? by Neuronwelder · · Score: 1

    Kind of like trying to bail out the ocean's water with a coffee cup. Since he's not tracking who comes in, I hope they send illegals to see the White House. :P

  55. Re:This is better than what Obama did by king+neckbeard · · Score: 1

    No, ISIS happened because we invaded a country over bullshit reasons upon bullshit reasons. Even if ISIS didn't happen, it was still a mistake large enough that the majority of Bush's cabinet should be corpses right now.

    --
    This is my signature. There are many like it, but this one is mine.
  56. But... her emails? by rsilvergun · · Score: 1

    Jokes and meme's aside, nobody cares. Trump may full well screw all those swing state voters over, but his opponent didn't make any promises whatsoever (well, there was that time she promised to cost them all their jobs). There's a group of Dems going around called "Justice Democrats" trying to separate themselves from "Corporate Democrats" and line up with Bernie Sanders. I wish them the best. Otherwise we're gonna have 8 years of Trump because like the man said: "What have you got to lose?". If you're a coal miner in Ohio the answer is probably: nothing.

    --
    Hi! I make Firefox Plug-ins. Check 'em out @ https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/youtube-mp3-podcaster/
    1. Re:But... her emails? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      "she promised to cost them all their jobs"

      No, she treated them like adults and told them the old jobs were not coming back. "Those jobs are gone", not "I'm going to take the jobs from you".

      But you're a moron and prefer to be talked to like a spoiled two year old so you can be deluded happy for a while.

  57. Blacklisted? by rsilvergun · · Score: 1, Insightful

    what world do you live in? Blacklisted from _where_ exactly? I see Trump getting buddy buddy with the Goldman-Sachs types he swore up and down he would drain the swamp of. If that's Blacklisting then sign me the f' up.

    What you're doing is a classic right wing technique: divert attention with a straw man argument. The question I have is: Do you know you're doing it or are you just repeating something you picked up online or from talk radio? If the former, stop it. Best case scenario you're lowering the quality of discourse the world over and worst case you're throwing your country under a bus. If the latter I'd suggest broadening your horizons towards the left. Start with Bernie Sanders & Beth Warren.

    --
    Hi! I make Firefox Plug-ins. Check 'em out @ https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/youtube-mp3-podcaster/
    1. Re:Blacklisted? by ganjadude · · Score: 1

      im referring to the avg person who is being harassed daily for supporting trump. if you think warren and bernie are good for america (not saying trump is) you are just as much a part of the problem

      --
      have you seen my sig? there are many others like it but none that are the same
  58. Transparency of public officials by Capsaicin · · Score: 3, Insightful

    It's the essence of the "If you haven't done anything wrong, why is your privacy so important to you" argument.

    The salient difference being that privacy is to be enjoyed in abundance by citizens qua private individuals, but should to be afforded only sparingly to public officials qua public officials. Transparency, not privacy, is the the expectation we should have of government.

    History shows that the privacy enjoyed by individual citizens is inversely proportional to the privacy government officials are permitted in the exercise of their power.

    --
    Better to be despised for too anxious apprehensions, than ruined by too confident a security. --Edmund Burke
  59. Russian: ÐнÑÐÑÐ by TheOuterLinux · · Score: 1

    ...I mean, "I wonder who is coming to visit?"

  60. Re: Russian: ÐнÑÐÑ& by TheOuterLinux · · Score: 1

    So it seems Slashdot doesn't support Cyrillic characters. It would of been funny. :/

  61. Interesno, kto pridet v gosti? by TheOuterLinux · · Score: 1

    ...I mean, "I wonder who is coming to visit?" -- Latin character version of Russian because Slashdot only knows Latin languages.

  62. Re:This is better than what Obama did by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Yes, tax returns aren't presidential records. So? 1) almost every president and presidential candidate of the last 40 years has released theirs; 2) Trump promised he would release his, then he changed it to after they were audited, even though past presidents have released theirs under audit (e.g., Nixon) and tax returns earlier than 2008 are not under audit. Now he's finally said he won't release them at all. So, sure, there's no legal requirement that he release them, only 40 years of precedent, the general principle that transparency about conflicts of interest is a good thing, and the promise he would. Now broken.

    I hope you are right that the other information will be released on whitehouse.gov. That is a small consolation prize. But the claim that visitor's logs are a huge security issue is silly when Obama apparently released those logs without significant security issues and all that you'd need to do is delay them 6 months or a year. It's hard to come up with a serious security issue that would survive a few months delay.

    > Of course, we can't know the truth just yet since both the White House and the press (ex. Techdirt) have no credibility.

    Isn't it so convenient that we can't know anything, and thus can make up whatever we want or not care about it?

  63. Re:This is better than what Obama did by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    1) For some strange reason almost every other Presidential candidate of the last 40 years thought it was an important enough issue to release them. Something about financial transparency and showing there was nothing to hide;
    2) Trump promised he would.

  64. Whitehouse Orgies by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The Oval Orgies are back! Call the escort services, agent!

  65. Re:So it magically becomes a non-concern @ the DNC by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Given their campaign to destroy anyone and anything in the way of their narrative,

    That is the god's honest truth, if you live inside the partisan news bubble of the right.
    For everybody else, we know better. Please, for the love of jesus, break free of tribal epistemology.

  66. Re: This is better than what Obama did by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Google "emoluments" for more info. While some claim those laws don't apply to the president, no court has yet ruled on it,

    FYI, the arguments that emoluments don't apply in Trump's case are really, really weak.

    Basically, using the criteria proposed by Trump's own legal defense counsel (common usage of the term at the time), the definition of emolument is practically any form of payment for practically any reason. Here's an analysis by John Mikhail, professor of law at Georgetown.

  67. Mitt Romney Paid More Taxes Than Necessary by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    I don't know of one person who would deliberately not avoid paying taxes when given the opportunity.

    I do. Mitt Romney. When he released his tax returns during the 2012 campaign he chose not to take some deductions.

    Had Romney taken the full deduction, he would have paid some quarter of a million less in taxes.

    Romney releases his 2011 tax return and 20-year average tax rate

  68. Where'd they go? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Is it me, or does anyone else notice a relative lack of Trump support on this website since His Orangeness bombed Syria?

    Piss off the Russian government, and their puppet Astroturfers and their unwitting accomplices find something else to do than fight tooth and nail to defend his every move.

  69. While you're within the globalist sphere. by sethstorm · · Score: 1

    Your use of the "we know better" marks you.

    --
    Twitter supports and protects racists - by smearing their critics with the "Hate Speech" label.
  70. Do facts even matter to Obama supporters? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    1. There is no law requiring these logs to be published.

    2. Presidents of BOTH parties can simply avoid such things by meeting people at locations other than the White House - and they have always done so.

    3. Presidents before Obama did not release these logs, Obama did so as a PR move to present himself as "the most transparent" president ever.

    4. President Obama's team routinely "scrubbed" the logs of anybody he did not want the public to know about. Google it. Journalists discovered this years ago when they saw people coming and going and did not find them in the logs. Obama admin people have admitted this.

    This all means that the American people have never had access to this info, NOT EVEN UNDER OBAMA who gave them the ILLUSION of transparency by publishing sanitized/doctored/scrubbed logs. The Obama logs were every bit the fakery and political-stunt-aimed-at-stupid-gullible-people that the online petitions he introduced were.

  71. Re: This is better than what Obama did by oobayly · · Score: 1

    2021 - "Why are you so concerned about his visitor logs, he's not president anymore..."

  72. Re: This is better than what Obama did by oobayly · · Score: 1

    That and the fact that coalition forces refused to allow Saddam Hussein era officials (and army officers) from serving in the new government and army. This resulted in a large number of well trained soldiers left with no job and a massive grudge.

    Compare this to Germany - yes they had a massive de-nazification campaign, but civil servants and Hitler era officers were allowed to continue serving, under the watchful eye of allied forces.

  73. The prior administration increased opacity. by sethstorm · · Score: 0

    Trump will release full visitor logs five years after the current term ends.

    Obama just decided to keep many records secret

    Isn't Trump's mere delay instead of outright refusal much better?

    --
    Twitter supports and protects racists - by smearing their critics with the "Hate Speech" label.
    1. Re:The prior administration increased opacity. by serviscope_minor · · Score: 1

      Isn't Trump's mere delay instead of outright refusal much better?

      So, Trump delaying the release of the information until after the point which it could be acted on is better?

      Do you really need the peanut gallery to answer that for you?

      --
      SJW n. One who posts facts.
  74. Re:RacistRetard.gov by sethstorm · · Score: 1

    Boehner isn't President.

    --
    Twitter supports and protects racists - by smearing their critics with the "Hate Speech" label.
  75. Drain the swamp, he said. by jma05 · · Score: 1

    Wonder how this fits into that.

  76. Re:This is better than what Obama did by shutdown+-p+now · · Score: 1

    "the removed disclosures, salaries and appointments would be integrated into WhiteHouse.gov in the coming months"

    So, just like tax returns. As I recall, they were also "definitely" being released very soon now. Right until the election.

  77. Re: Thanks DNC! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    France is going the way of Venezuela.

  78. Headline vs. Content by KermodeBear · · Score: 2

    Trump kills open.gov! He hates openness! He's a horrible person! I hate him and so should you!

    vs.

    To save a bit of money, the content on open.gov is moving to whitehouse.gov.

    I know that Trump isn't well liked (especially here), but come on, guys. You're acting like children.

    --
    Love sees no species.
    1. Re:Headline vs. Content by Chelloveck · · Score: 1

      To save a bit of money, the content on open.gov is moving to whitehouse.gov.

      Except, it won't be. It will be removed long enough for people to forget that it ever existed. Then there'll be no need to put it on whitehouse.gov. Problem solved.

      This isn't just knocking Trump and praising Obama. I thought Obama's initial announcement of the site was disingenuous and it would be "open" exactly as far as the White House wanted us to see in and no more.

      The galling part is that Trump's administration doesn't even have the respect to lie convincingly. "We're closing it to save $70K over four years." Yeah, bullshit. That's $50 per day, probably less than the White House spends on toilet paper. That $70K is literally less than the amount of money they wipe their asses with. They're not doing this to "save money".

      --
      Chelloveck
      I give up on debugging. From now on, SIGSEGV is a feature.
    2. Re:Headline vs. Content by Jarwulf · · Score: 1

      There are probably hundreds of laudable things bush did that Obama decided not to renew errr..shutdown. But because Trump deciding to consolidate data into one website to save money is 'killing transparancy'. Why should progressives expect him to do anything for them if they're going to hate him no matter what?

    3. Re:Headline vs. Content by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It is like Trump donating his paycheck to the National Park Service after cutting 1.5 billion from its budget.

  79. Non-issue by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    "the removed disclosures, salaries and appointments would be integrated into WhiteHouse.gov in the coming months.""

    So, basically this is a non-story news story.

  80. Hilarious to reason privacy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Need to protect privacy of these folks, but not normal citizens who have an ISP.

  81. Re: This is better than what Obama did by king+neckbeard · · Score: 1

    Plus, NASA snapped up all of their rocket scientists.

    --
    This is my signature. There are many like it, but this one is mine.
  82. Re: This is better than what Obama did by Scroatzilla · · Score: 0

    It's a shame that you have been hypnotized into caring *so much* about the tax returns. It is not at all related to his election nor performance as president; and is completely related to socialist shills who are trying every vector to "resist" Trump's presidency. Sorry, but his tax returns are only significant to butt-hurt loser socialists.

    Do you remember Trump's President-Elect press conference where a spokesperson for his law firm gave contact information for anyone with questions about Trump's legal ties? If you willfully ignored this, that is your own foolish partisan ignorance. Nevertheless, if there are any *real* journalists left in the mainstream media, it seems that they have a distinct vector for researching any conflicts of interest involving Trump or his companies.

    Trump will always look bad to willfully ignorant butt-hurt Socialists. Get with the program. People don't want a giant centralized government that steals from successful people and gives to losers, using authoritarian enforcement and political correctness. The don't want it in the U.S., and they don't want it anywhere in the world.

  83. Re: This is better than what Obama did by darthsilun · · Score: 2

    Oh good. Keep repeating "ignorant butt-hurt Socialists". Over and over. That'll win you some friends.

    I'm not a Socialist – I'm actually a capitalist. I'm an honest capitalist. I'm a pragmatic capitalist. And 66M Americans – 3M more than voted for Twitler – aren't Socialist either. And your side's endless blathering about (((Socialists))) isn't going to magically make them Socialists either. (And I'm betting you live in one of those "socialist/welfare states" by which I mean your state receives more federal dollars than it collects in taxes, while my state pays more. I'd love to end that little "entitlement" you've got going there.)

    And speaking of willful ignorance. Just keep on ignoring the fact that he's a facist, racist, misogynist, draft dodging, lying, cheating, tax dodging, pussy grabbing, bully, serial adulterer, and did I forget anything else? I'm sure I did. Go back and watch the video where he mocked the reporter with the speech impediment and tell me you're proud of that. Watch the videos where he told his jack booted thugs to kick the crap out of people, and then come back and tell us that that's how you want the rest of the world to see us. Go read the stories about the people he did business with and then didn't pay them what he agreed; then come back and tell us that's a guy you want to do business with. Go on.

    There is no "get with the program." You, and the rest of the people like you can just forget that. We're not going to "get over it because we lost." We're just going to turn it around on you and tell you "we're not going away, just get over it." You drove around with your "Impeach Obama" bumper sticker for eight years. Now we're going to to exactly the same thing. Get over it.

    And his tax returns are significant, not matter how many times you try to claim they're not. So again, "get over it." We're going to keep pushing for them for as long as he's in office. We just are, so STFU about it already you whiney little turd. And in the mean time, just so we're on an even footing, we'll call you an ignorant butt-hurt loser fascist. And you are a fascist, don't kid yourself. Because a real American wouldn't be the least bit threatened by other people speaking their minds. This is like First Amendment kind of stuff. You know that, right?

  84. If the website cured cancer, it's worth it too! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    If the website cured cancer, it's worth it too!

    Hypotheticals are hypothetical.

  85. Re: Thanks DNC! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    A president with too much power, declaring an on-going cessation of civil rights after a terrorist strike? The President of the US is already too powerful.

  86. It becomes a non concern w/ the DNC by sethstorm · · Score: 1

    Laughing at the modbombers.

    you're that much of a coward to not suffer the consequences of your actions, what else are you trying to hide?

    Then the media can be as open as well. Given their campaign to destroy anyone and anything in the way of their narrative, it can be safe to say that they can no longer be assumed to be good or impartial.

    The excuses from the con artist administration are just that, excuses.

    The Obama administration left office on January 21st, 2017. On the other hand, they seem to want to keep a Soviet-like iron grip on power through the rioters, media, and DNC faithful.

    The swamp keeps filling

    You might want to wake up and check the date. Also note that the media have turned back from the Presidential Guard to the Fifth Column.

    oil companies dictate our energy policy

    Well, they're more competent than Greenpeace or Sierra Club on energy.

    --
    Twitter supports and protects racists - by smearing their critics with the "Hate Speech" label.
  87. Opacity increased in the "transparent" Obama adm. by sethstorm · · Score: 1

    Trump will release full visitor logs five years after the current term ends.

    Obama just decided to keep many records secret

    Isn't Trump's mere delay instead of outright refusal much better?

    --
    Twitter supports and protects racists - by smearing their critics with the "Hate Speech" label.
  88. Re: This is better than what Obama did by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    What was that quote again? "Don't argue with stupid people, they will just bring you down to their level then win with experience."

  89. Re: This is better than what Obama did by ArmoredDragon · · Score: 1

    Except GP is correct, what the fuck does this have to do with his job as president? If there's some kind of conflict of interest, I'm sure more than one three letter agency would be aware of it.

    And speaking of willful ignorance. Just keep on ignoring the fact that he's a facist

    Now THAT is ignorance. It's fair to call Trump a lot of things, but fascist just doesn't fit at all. If he was truly fascist, then he'd be calling for nationalization of many businesses, and every business he doesn't want to be nationalized he'd start demanding that its goals and mission changed to benefit the good of the people.

    I would say racist doesn't either, but just about anything qualifies as racist these days; enough so that the word is basically meaningless. Hell, a lot of people seem to think that simply being white alone is enough to be considered racist, character of the person notwithstanding.