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New Approach To Virtual Reality Shocks You Into Believing Walls Are Real (vice.com)

A team of researchers from Germany's Hasso-Plattner Institute is trying to find an effective way to trick the mind into thinking a virtual object or wall is real. They have developed a new device that "sends little electric shocks to sensors on your arms that stimulate your muscles whenever you press against a wall or try to lift a heavy object in virtual reality," reports Motherboard. From the report: The team's main goal was to create this illusion as cheaply as possible. Their contraption, seen in the video above, consists of little more than an electric muscle stimulator stuffed in a backpack, the sensors, and a Samsung GearVR device accompanied by motion trackers. In other words, if you've been turned off by the clunky headsets of the contemporary VR experience, this probably won't do much to win you over.

59 comments

  1. Walls of Flesh by ferret4 · · Score: 2

    Yeah I can see this being used to stimulate other muscles when they bump into softer objects under more interesting simulations real soon. I doubt that'll "turn off" too many VR users.

    1. Re:Walls of Flesh by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Forget walls: how about virtual shackles? I can see it now: a gaol where all the prisoners just sit on a single room wearing VR headsets.

    2. Re: Walls of Flesh by Fwipp · · Score: 1

      It turns out that regular shackles are a lot cheaper and don't take batteries.

    3. Re: Walls of Flesh by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      but vr time can be monitized in a virtual drug dystopian way.

    4. Re:Walls of Flesh by Applehu+Akbar · · Score: 1

      Forget walls: how about virtual shackles? I can see it now: a gaol where all the prisoners just sit on a single room wearing VR headsets.

      And being made to re-experience crime, this time as victims.

  2. The saddest part by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    All I can think of is all the various ways I'm certain it will somehow get abused.

    I don't know how, I don't know which company or three-letter agency, but somehow, this is going to be used to nefarious ends instead of simple porn.

    1. Re: The saddest part by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Like making it feel physically impossible to jump on to railway lines Infront of an oncoming train? With transport, where big heavy objects are moving fast, having an additional barrier would be excellent. There are protective possibilities that are valid.

      Giving you the tactile ability to sense and manipate objects in virtual reality would also make it just that much more useful.

      It could end up being some next level matrix shit, and all kinds of bad things are possible but that is the nature of the world, it is merely how we chose to use what is available.

      Maybe they'll make real mind bullets that can bend around corners. But then again maybe in a full virtual reality world we can just separate ourselves from the bad people and maybe those bad people can get their fix of evil virtually in a way that doesn't harm others.

    2. Re: The saddest part by fisted · · Score: 1

      Like making it feel physically impossible to jump on to railway lines Infront of an oncoming train? With transport, where big heavy objects are moving fast, having an additional barrier would be excellent. There are protective possibilities that are valid.

      You honestly believe virtually jumping in front of an oncoming virtual train causes any damage?

    3. Re: The saddest part by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'm sure DARPA in conjunction with the other three-a-holes agencies are very, very hard at work trying to remedy that "minor problem". It probably drives them insane not seeing murder be as simple and straightforward as in old cyberpunk movies

    4. Re: The saddest part by fisted · · Score: 1

      ...you honestly believe jumping in front of a train is murder?

    5. Re: The saddest part by mark-t · · Score: 1

      I'm guessing from your post that you just haven't realized that this article is talking about haptic devices that you physically wear on your person while using VR... if you aren't wearing them, you don't get any physical sensation, so this tech would be pretty useless at achieving what you are describing. Haptic devices are not a new thing... the somewhat novel aspect here is how they are being used in VR. Nothing more. To do what you were suggesting would need tech that could wirelessly stimulate the muscles of people remotely, which while certainly imaginable, is something so far removed from this that it's senseless to suggest that what this article was talking about could somehow suggest its feasibility.

    6. Re: The saddest part by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No what I am saying is probably more about augmented reality. The idea that the real train line is recognised in your understanding of the virtual world. At the most extreme example the idea that you had a chip in your brain thatade it impossible to go on the line, your nerves just won't allow it.

  3. prisons without walls by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Those wacky Nazis have innovated again.

  4. Re:I'll be shocked ... by iMadeGhostzilla · · Score: 1

    That will be when it helps you make decisions better than you do without it. What kind of decisions are better made with a VR headset on your head vs. having one or more 2D displays in front of you? Training/simulation seems to be an almost established niche, but beyond that I can think of anything.

  5. I want the wall hack code so I can get the high sc by Joe_Dragon · · Score: 1

    I want the wall hack code so I can get the high score.

  6. The Wall is real by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    And is also the best Pink Floyd album

  7. Get one for the whitehouse by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    and save us about 50 million bucks

  8. Next Up: Virtual Reality with Consequenses by NotQuiteReal · · Score: 1

    With a real exit bag, to augment the sensation (or lack there of) of a "simulated" VR exit bag experience.

    Be sure to read the fine print in the EULA.

    --
    This issue is a bit more complicated than you think.
  9. But you can't lean on it. . . by Zobeid · · Score: 3, Insightful

    But you still can't lean against that virtual wall, or set a real object down on that virtual table -- things I've attempted while using the Vive, with predictably humorous results.

    1. Re:But you can't lean on it. . . by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Not yet. But then the sensation of leaning against a wall could be simulated. It's electrical impulses in your brain.

      Well that and gravity.

    2. Re: But you can't lean on it. . . by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      in vr that sends these signals you would be leaning against a virtual wall. i guess in theory your sensation would be real but simulated by electrical input thats supposed to felt. while jacked in in this way would you be aware of your real body and surroundings. this seems to point to a fully integrated environment anyway.

    3. Re: But you can't lean on it. . . by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So basically we're just trying to accomplish what our minds already naturally do while they are asleep... Anyone interested in immersive VR should just learn lucid dreaming. It's the same thing

    4. Re: But you can't lean on it. . . by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Except the environment you inhabit in a dream cannot be shared with other minds. Immersive VR can.

    5. Re: But you can't lean on it. . . by parkinglot777 · · Score: 1

      in vr that sends these signals you would be leaning against a virtual wall. i guess in theory your sensation would be real but simulated by electrical input thats supposed to felt.

      Well, VR can't imitate leaning against a wall regardless sensation unless it can adjust your body's center of gravity in a way that your body can be tilted without falling down. Or you would just be falling "inside" VR wall when you attempt to lean against it.

  10. Been using these for years by goombah99 · · Score: 1

    I'm a repairman in the Matrix and I take care of all you Copper tops. We been using these things for years. Work perfectly, no one can tell they are jacked into a bathtub.

    --
    Some drink at the fountain of knowledge. Others just gargle.
    1. Re: Been using these for years by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      i was just thinking that too.

      why are you breathing so hard do you think thats air. stop trying to hit me and hit me. and my favorite there is no spoon.

  11. product name by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    stimulate your muscles whenever you press against a wall or try to lift a heavy object in virtual reality,"

    "Virtual mime".

  12. I don't know about believing the walls by Crashmarik · · Score: 1

    But there's no arguing about the shocks being real.

    1. Re:I don't know about believing the walls by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Didn't they already make this product for dogs?

      Invisible fence or something?

      So if it is good enough for your dog, let's do it for people too? Or something?

    2. Re:I don't know about believing the walls by Vairon · · Score: 4, Informative

      That depends on what you consider a shock. The original article never used the word shock. Shock is a term that vice.com decided to use. If you read the original article http://plopes.org/project/hapt... it says the electrical stimulations are not painful. Their devices simply stimulate certain muscles to simulate the weight or hardness of different objects.

    3. Re: I don't know about believing the walls by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The instructions were too unclear, got shock collar stuck in dog's rectum.

    4. Re:I don't know about believing the walls by Rei · · Score: 2

      Agreed that it's a bad description. But the original also points out the weaknesses of their approach. It's a lot easier to give a third party the view of the person in the VR experience being perfectly constrained by walls than it is to give the person themselves that, for two reasons: one, protracted stimulation (aka they're feeling a wall) draws attention to the stimulation itself (tingling), and two, because it's done by activating opposing muscle groups, the force feels inverted, like someone's pulling their hand away with a magnet. So they were messing around with "visual means" to convey the concept, like "soft walls" that let your hand penetrate a bit, and "electric" walls to make it look like it's a force field pulling you away.

      Neat concept, but not exactly right. Also, it goes without saying that any attempt to, say, lean on such a virtual wall will go badly ;)

      --
      Very well; let this abomination unto the Lord begin!
  13. Side effects by Solandri · · Score: 4, Funny

    Side effects include users developing an aversion to picking up objects or touching walls in real life.

    1. Re:Side effects by Vairon · · Score: 1

      No. Their devices do not cause painful shocks. They provide electrical stimulation of specific muscle groups to simulate objects.

    2. Re:Side effects by skirmish666 · · Score: 1

      "New Approach To Virtual Reality Electrically Stimulates You Into Believing Walls Are Real" might have been a more apt headline.

      --
      Sigger than your average
  14. They're already failures by Jason1729 · · Score: 3, Insightful

    The team's main goal was to create this illusion as cheaply as possible.

    Do it properly in R&D. Then see if you can do it cheaper or otherwise reduce costs through scale once you know what you're doing. By focusing too much on cost upfront, you will miss important avenues of research.

    These people have already failed.

    1. Re:They're already failures by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You are wrong.

    2. Re:They're already failures by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The team's main goal was to create this illusion as cheaply as possible.

      Do it properly in R&D. Then see if you can do it cheaper or otherwise reduce costs through scale once you know what you're doing. By focusing too much on cost upfront, you will miss important avenues of research.

      These people have already failed.

      There are dozens of teams trying to do it your way. Don't worry. In 20 years or so they will have a much better product, if the market still exist.
      If the market remains then or not depends a lot on if these guys gets their stuff out to people.

    3. Re:They're already failures by thegarbz · · Score: 2

      These people have already failed.

      Get a grip. Not all R&D is about creating something perfect. Not all results of R&D can be scaled and cheapened due to production.

      An incredibly large portion of R&D is focused on cost. Producing something that is priced out of the market on arrival for something which has a goal of being in every household is what would be a failure.

    4. Re:They're already failures by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Disagree: Google cardboard was clearly trying to design the cheapest VR experience for a strategic purpose (commodity VR) which has helped springboard the entire industry. It is wrong to have a cost goal as part of the design process.

  15. Re: I'll be shocked ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Since when has having fun been about making good decisions?

  16. There are FOUR lights. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    The headline sounds suspiciously like an interrogation technique.

    1. Re:There are FOUR lights. by RespekMyAthorati · · Score: 1

      "Vee have vays of making you talk."

      They are Germans, after all.

  17. Men must of created this... by magusxxx · · Score: 1

    ...because they're always thinking about walls while women are always thinking about ceilings.

    --
    Care killed the cat, but satisfaction brought it back.
    1. Re:Men must of created this... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Ask me how I know you should of paid more attention in English class...

    2. Re:Men must of created this... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I of no idea

  18. Re:I'll be shocked ... by Kergan · · Score: 2

    I'll be shocked when I can believe the virtual reality business is a real thing instead of just hype.

    Just wait until VR Porn popularizes it.

  19. Re:I'll be shocked ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    It's already pretty popular, you should try it.
    Even with something as trivial as Google cardboard it is a pretty big step up from regular porn.

  20. Re:I'll be shocked ... by AC-x · · Score: 1

    Training/simulation seems to be an almost established niche, but beyond that I can think of anything.

    Gaming and 3D modeling are the other obvious ones.

  21. Alternative Side effects by n329619 · · Score: 1

    Side effects include users developing an addiction to picking up objects or touching walls in real life.

  22. Comment removed by account_deleted · · Score: 1

    Comment removed based on user account deletion

  23. Stick your head through the wall! by Zobeid · · Score: 1

    One of the more interesting problems I've encountered with the Vive is. . . What happens when you push your face into a wall?

    First I have to say, this is *extremely* counter-intuitive to do at first. Pushing my face into a wall really doesn't come naturally at all.

    In some games (or not-exactly-games, like realities.io) you can see what's on the other side of the wall, and you can get glimpses of things you aren't really meant to see -- which can be fun and useful. In other games the display just fades to black, preventing you from "cheating" in this way.

    A few days ago I got Compound, which is a simple-but-addictive demo game, where pushing my head into a wall moves the wall. Actually, it moves EVERYTHING. It just nudges the whole virtual world over a few inches. Which is odd, but oddly cool. If I get too close to a *real* wall, I can always step back to the center of my game space, even if it looks like there's a virtual wall in my way.

  24. Les Nessman lives again by ripvlan · · Score: 1

    Good'ol Les - used to mark his virtual office using masking tape. But electroshock -- oh what an idea.

    For you younger folk: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...

  25. Re:I'll be shocked ... by iMadeGhostzilla · · Score: 1

    Good point, though I think it's a specific subcategory of 3D modelling where viewing in VR would pay off. It would have to be some case where stakes are high and you can catch in VR something that you can't on the screen and it makes all the difference. Don't quite know what that is though (but sounds niche).

    I'm less convinced re gaming, VR is optional there.

  26. It won't work by Required+Snark · · Score: 1

    The sticker shock of buying a VR setup is so great that no one will respond to the "tiny" shocks that indicate wall contact.

    --
    Why is Snark Required?
  27. Re:The Wall is real but not the best by OutOnARock · · Score: 1

    Animals....Wish You Were Here...

    now get off my lawn

  28. Re:The Wall is real but not the best by OutOnARock · · Score: 1

    sorry for same reply

    Dark Side of the Moon

    freaking /. page edits