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CC'ing the Boss on Email Makes Employees Feel Less Trusted, Study Finds (hbr.org)

Do you ever loop your boss when having a conversation with a colleague when his or her presence in the thread wasn't really necessary? Turns out, many people do this, and your colleague doesn't find it helpful at all. From an article: My collaborators and I conducted a series of six studies (a combination of experiments and surveys) to see how cc'ing influences organizational trust. While our findings are preliminary and our academic paper is still under review, a first important finding was that the more often you include a supervisor on emails to coworkers, the less trusted those coworkers feel (alternative link). In our experimental studies, in which 594 working adults participated, people read a scenario where they had to imagine that their coworker always, sometimes, or almost never copied the supervisor when emailing them. Participants were then required to respond to items assessing how trusted they would feel by their colleague. ("In this work situation, I would feel that my colleague would trust my 'competence,' 'integrity,' and 'benevolence.'") It was consistently shown that the condition in which the supervisor was "always" included by cc made the recipient of the email feel trusted significantly less than recipients who were randomly allocated to the "sometimes" or "almost never" condition. Organizational surveys of 345 employees replicated this effect by demonstrating that the more often employees perceived that a coworker copied their supervisor, the less they felt trusted by that coworker. To make matters worse, my findings indicated that when the supervisor was copied in often, employees felt less trusted, and this feeling automatically led them to infer that the organizational culture must be low in trust overall, fostering a culture of fear and low psychological safety.

148 comments

  1. I BCC the entire company... by Tesen · · Score: 5, Funny

    haha! suck it paranoid bastards!

  2. Fighting words by s1d3track3D · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Do you ever loop your boss when having a conversation with a colleague when his or her presence in the thread wasn't really necessary?

    Them's fighting words!

    1. Re:Fighting words by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Turns out, many people do this, and your colleague doesn't find it helpful at all.

      Hey Colleague! I'm not CC'ing the boss to help you out.

    2. Re:Fighting words by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Turns out, many people do this, and your colleague doesn't find it helpful at all.

      Hey Colleague! I'm not CC'ing the boss to help you out.

      Exactly, if things have gotten to the point where I'm CC'ing my and/or your boss it's because diplomacy has failed at our level and things are not getting done.

    3. Re:Fighting words by JaredOfEuropa · · Score: 3, Insightful

      That, or I'm praising / thanking the colleague for something.

      --
      If construction was anything like programming, an incorrectly fitted lock would bring down the entire building...
    4. Re:Fighting words by networkBoy · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Anytime I've been on a questionable CC of any boss I quietly and discreetly ask the sender (out of band, verbal if possible) why the boss was CC'd, prompting with is it a CYA thing, or is there a reason you need to look like you're applying extra pressure?

      At least 80% of the time it's more about that person maintaining visibility to their boss that they're working (over there) than it is about trying to apply pressure to me or my team.
      Now, this discounts all the times I already know why the boss was copied, like they ask me to do FOO, but FOO is not on my task list and I'm already oversubscribed so I push back, or they ask for BAR, but were super pissy, demanding, and rude, so I said "no", or I already know they work for a micromanaging asshat, so almost certainly are cc'ing in their boss at their boss's request.

      -nB

      --
      whois gawk date unzip strip find touch finger mount join nice man top fsck grep eject more yes exit umount sleep dump
    5. Re: Fighting words by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      For me, cc'ing my director is usually a "cover my ass" when dealing with another department director that "knows everything about tech" and are either billigerent or thinks that I am just stonewalling them when I tell them that a request is illegal, out of regulatory compliance, unreasonable, against policy, or impossible.

    6. Re:Fighting words by Mr+D+from+63 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      If someone emails me and CC's their boss, I assume it is because their boss wanted them to. That means the boss is interested in the issue at hand (usually a good thing) or he's a control freak (usually a bad thing). Either way I don't hold it against the sender. In reality its pretty rare when its not obvious to my why the boss was included.

    7. Re:Fighting words by mjwx · · Score: 1

      Turns out, many people do this, and your colleague doesn't find it helpful at all.

      Hey Colleague! I'm not CC'ing the boss to help you out.

      This.

      Lets face facts... You're doing it because you're an arsehole who thinks that name dropping and going over someone's head will get you anywhere... And the level of smug I generate when it backfires has put me on an EPA watchlist... And it always backfires.

      --
      Calling someone a "hater" only means you can not rationally rebut their argument.
    8. Re:Fighting words by Darinbob · · Score: 1

      I find I have to do it to appeal to authority. My worker is ignoring me, so I cc the boss, and suddenly the work starts. It also helps with emails to project managers and the like who may be badgering me about something and when I cc the boss they become more polite. I also sometimes do this as a way of saying "see, I told you this guy was nuts, here's proof".

    9. Re:Fighting words by Darinbob · · Score: 2

      I do have a direct report that just does not do what I say. I just want a weekly status report, and it never arrives. After a late project I wanted a daily status because the director keeps asking me at random times what the status is, and so I cc the boss as proof that I have asked for the status and so that the boss can indeed apply pressure. It's sort of a way of handing the boss some proof that I'm not being listened to.

      The cc is also backup support for when I'm dealing with a person outside of the group trying to get me to do work I don't have time for; if I cc the boss then the pressure eases up, or at least they badger the boss instead of me. A way of saying "I can't make that decision on my own".

    10. Re:Fighting words by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Turns out the boss doesn't like bullshit emails, either!

      The boss CC has legitimate use, but abuse makes you unpopular with two people.

    11. Re:Fighting words by angel'o'sphere · · Score: 1

      It would make more sense to mail the boss in such cases, or reply to your coworker and add the boss to the list of recipients, and adress him/her directly with two or threesentences and the question how to proceede.

      In teams where I have a leading role, all mails where I am on CC only, get filtered into a seperate mail folder. The chance that I ever read them is basically zero.

      I go over such mails, before a meeting, to catch up what went on last days/weeks.

      --
      Cost free eBook I read (by iBook/Kobo/Amazon/ObookO/Gutenberg etc.): "The Green Odyssey" by Philip Jose Farmer.
    12. Re:Fighting words by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I work in the public sector in the UK and this shit happens all the time. Happened to me a few times but after I provided evidence that a) it isn't me sat there all day doing fuck all and b) that I will make official complaints about being dragged into petty point-scoring/victimisation exercises, I tend to get left alone. Funniest one was my line manager insinuating that I'd done nothing all day and sending - shock! horror! - a screengrab (whole screen, of course; dumbfuck couldn't work out how to grab a single window), CC'ing in a few higher-ups. I duly sent a grab of the *correct* window showing I'd done as much as anyone else in the department, CC'ing in the same higher-ups. Amazingly enough I never heard any more about it. Idiot left a few months later; turns out she was a friend of someone higher up the food chain and had been moved multiple times due to incompetence that would have got the likes of me sacked on the spot. Thank the gods that I'm off work ATM and leaving that shithole soon.
      Most CC snitches are a waste of company time and money; it should be considered a personal attack and result in an official written warning. There are correct ways to escalate issues and copying in J Random Manager is not one of them. It promotes antipathy and distrust, in turn lowering morale, ultimately making it a less productive environment. Personally I go into work to *work*, which is what I'm actually paid for, not to do that five-year olds' trick of running to a grown-up because I'm not getting my own way.

    13. Re:Fighting words by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Nah, if you're praising them you CC: THEIR boss. If they're not responsive or inadequately responsive to requests, you CC: your boss. (and maybe theirs too, if things are really bad).

    14. Re:Fighting words by sabbede · · Score: 1

      The one's that CC my boss' boss on the first contact are the ones I hate. I guess they assume it will get them a faster response, but all it does is make me look bad. He assumes that if it gets up to him, then I've done something wrong

    15. Re:Fighting words by mchall · · Score: 0

      There's a third option, and although you put your post in personal terms I'm making a more general statement here. The recipient could be a flake or a manipulative tool, and the sender is doing a CYA with the boss. When a co-worker isn't holding up their end of the work and/or frequently lies to cover their own shortcomings it isn't uncommon to document the exchange in order to avoid blowback as well as having evidence to hand when HR eventually comes knocking.

      In those situations though I'd probably have a private conversation with the boss first to determine if we're on the same page, and then bcc rather than cc. If the boss does not share the same concerns then I'd file the correspondence away for my own protection.

      Of course it's preferable to avoid working in a toxic environment in the first place, but sometimes it can't be helped.

    16. Re:Fighting words by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      yes, thanks for making my point. My boss tells me to "email that guy/vendor/whatever and cc: me". It's a small company so the boss is involved in just about everything.

    17. Re:Fighting words by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It depends on the item. Sometimes bosses are interested, so they get CC-ed.

      However, there are the people that, in every E-mail exchange, just -have- to CC some PHB. One place I worked at, if you asked a cow-orker any questions at all, they would reply, CC-ing every manager they can find, asking how stupid the question is, and questioning the intelligence (and future presence as an employee) of the asker. The main reason was that the environment was highly siloed, and if you wanted anything from anyone else, you or your boss had to do something significant back.

      Of course, almost nothing got done, just because if you had a project, if you dared ask another person about something, you then would be sucked into various meetings asking why you are such a troublemaker, due to the CC storm that would follow.

      I am so glad that place is in the rear view mirror.

    18. Re:Fighting words by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      One of the few times I would CC a manager is when I have exhausted all options with the mail receiver. For example, I asked a DBA to create a table with a certain schema, no response. I give him a "just look at this script, download it, copy it to the RDBMS, then as the DB user, run it." No response. Finally, I started making sure his manager is CC-ed on the requests, which at least gets someone involved.

    19. Re:Fighting words by Darinbob · · Score: 1

      I've rarely done this, but when I did I definitelly wanted to send the message that the worker is not just playing games with me alone. And this was a next-to-last resort, I had already talked to the boss privately, the boss talked to the worker privately, etc.

  3. What if they didn't know? by subk · · Score: 1

    BCC FTW

    --
    Now, if you'll excuse me, I have backups to corrupt.
    1. Re:What if they didn't know? by Quirkz · · Score: 1

      Then the boss replies-all, revealing that they were secretly included in the message, and the level of paranoia skyrockets.

  4. Squeaky wheel syndrome by evanh · · Score: 1

    ... and I might provide some light entertainment for the boss.

  5. Duh by Foofoobar · · Score: 1

    And in other news... 'Water is WET'. Film at 11.

    --
    This is my sig. There are many like it but this one is mine.
    1. Re:Duh by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If you need to CC your boss to have him know you're doing your assignments you're either a shitty worker or you have shitty management.

    2. Re:Duh by s1d3track3D · · Score: 1

      Fuck off with your feelings. This is a business, not gender studies class.

      To: Bob in HR
      CC: TheBoss
      Subject: Sensitivity Training

      Hi Bob,

      I'd like to bring to your attention that Sam in Accounting is a blatant misogynist, can we please address this?

      Thank you

    3. Re:Duh by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Bob Porter: Looks like you've been missing a lot of work lately.

      Peter Gibbons: I wouldn't say I've been *missing* it, Bob.

    4. Re:Duh by TWX · · Score: 1

      In my experience and of what I have observed with others, those who talk with their bosses or otherwise keep them informed about what they do at work often have more opportunity for advancement at work. Two people can do the exact same thing, but the one that talks about the process and the milestones and keeps the boss informed of these will get recognition, the other one will not.

      You can call that shitty management if you want, but you are responsible for protecting your own interest, and arguably you are responsible for helping foster good communication with your employer. Besides, employees complain about the exact opposite, when the boss continually sticks his nose into the employee's business. At a minimum this means having to explain one's self on the boss's schedule to the detriment of the employee's productivity, and at worst it means a horrible micromanager of a boss that increases the stress level with the employees and harms productivity.

      I would much rather work where the boss trusts me to make my reports, than to work where the boss interrupts my train of thought to extract reports on his schedule.

      --
      Do not look into laser with remaining eye.
    5. Re:Duh by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      To: VP of HR
      cc:TheBoss

      X, quoted below, would like to study gender within the company rather than do their assigned work.

      To: Bob in HR
      CC: TheBoss
      Subject: Sensitivity Training


      Hi Bob,

      I'd like to bring to your attention that Sam in Accounting is a blatant misogynist, can we please address this?

      Thank you

      Fuck off with your feelings. This is a business, not gender studies class.

    6. Re:Duh by HornWumpus · · Score: 1

      To: Whiners.

      'Genders studies' classes have nothing to do with misogyny or the real world in any way. Fuck your feelings too.

      Issue addressed.

      Thank you
      The boss.

      --
      John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
    7. Re:Duh by networkBoy · · Score: 1

      I believe that falls under the heading of "Managing your manager".
      But, keeping your boss up to date and informed is a different (though not quite orthogonal) issue to CC'ing in the boss on what are normally 1:1 emails.

      --
      whois gawk date unzip strip find touch finger mount join nice man top fsck grep eject more yes exit umount sleep dump
    8. Re:Duh by networkBoy · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Funny aside (names obviously changed)

      Had a co worker Bob L Smith his email was bob.l.smith@
      HR Legal had a Bob L Smith who was bob.smith@

      My co-worker got so many of these emails it was sad. He actually ended up having to go through HRLegal confidentiality training as that was the only legal way he could receive these e-mails, which he would then FWD and cc back the sender.

      Among the interesting ones:
      * co-workers were dating, caught in conference room gettin it on.
      * porno (with one of the admins co-staring) being shown in conf room on projector at lunch; said admin was *not* part of the group watching.
      * boss punched subordinate in face in meeting that got very heated, subordinate proceeded to joint lock boss, tear shoulder, and choke him out with a rear naked choke.

      mind blowing, and made my dept. feel rather boring.

      --
      whois gawk date unzip strip find touch finger mount join nice man top fsck grep eject more yes exit umount sleep dump
    9. Re:Duh by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Seriously? So you want you're boss to know you are the one fucking up?

      This whole story is bizarrely appropriate to me personally RIGHT THIS SECOND. I've been dealing with a person who has no responsibility for making certain statements & has NO idea of the grief he's causing ME personally because I DO have responsibility not just for the topic he's making statements about but the after affects of the statements he's making. I've been extremely polite with this person, I've spoken to him about it & suggested he be more careful in sharing his statements.

      But, he just went & did it again. So I kindly suggest he might want to follow up on his previous e-mail and slightly 'step back' the veracity of the statements he's making because he's causing ME issues personally & confusion in general. I do NOT put his boss or any 'tangentially higher up bosses' on the e-mail.

      What does he do? He CC's, adds his boss, his bosses boss & a boss from related group. Now, if those aren't "fighting words" I don't know what is. So now he's put me in a position of showing how he is 100% wrong & causing issues in front of his boss(es), so under your premise I should just say 'fuck his feelings', but what is NOT obvious is that by being the one that points out how HE's wrong I come off as the 'ass' NOT him.

    10. Re:Duh by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

      The fact that you listed those interesting cases indicates that the "HR Legal confidentiality training" didn't work.

    11. Re: Duh by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Given you wrote that you asked him to lower the "veracity" of his claims, aka, asked him to lie, maybe you should proof read the work emails you send to.

      Besides being an ass, I'm guess you said you get right to doing the "illegal" aspects of the project requested. No wonder he has to CC everyone.

    12. Re:Duh by Darinbob · · Score: 1

      The boss has a need to know what you're doing. This is not an optional thing. Keeping the boss informed is a necessary part of the job. This is easy to do: speak up during meetings, tell the truth during scrums, send the weekly status reports. It's when the boss ends up not know what a particular worker is doing that things start falling apart. The boss is going to be asked by all the other bosses up the chain of command about what is going on and needs to answer.

      So let's say the boss has no idea that you're working on three different projects at once, that might lead to a fourth project being assigned by mistakenly assuming you have free time. That's not that difficult a situation to get into at some companies, when other people come in from the sides and give you a task without your boss knowing; which is the perfect time to "cc" the boss that some random sales guy wants you to work on a new feature.

      When it comes around to performance review and raise time, the boss is going to be happier with the workers who communicate more, and unhappy with those who he had to constantly struggle to get any information out of. The performance rating is almost never based upon the ability to get the job done while never communicating. Even if the work is excellent, the lack of communication will always send the signal that the work could be better.

  6. I would've never guessed! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Not only does it make it look like you don't trust anyone, but it's completely useless. YMMV, but at my company the boss doesn't even read most of what he's copied on (unless he's expecting it prior) because *everyone* is copying him on *everything*. It just get buried under all the other noise.

  7. That's the point... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    That's often kind of the point isn't it?

    You don't trust someone to do their job, possibly they've been screwing around or taking their sweet time.
    A swift CC to the boss and a "hey, what's the progress on this?" is one way to get it moving.

    On the other hand, doing it all the time is poor form if it's really a one to one conversation where escalation isn't needed.

    1. Re:That's the point... by msauve · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Precisely.

      "...more often you include a supervisor on emails to coworkers, the less trusted those coworkers feel..."

      It's probable that the author has reversed the causality - it's the less trusted coworkers who more often find bosses cc:'d on emails.

      --
      "National Security is the chief cause of national insecurity." - Celine's First Law
    2. Re:That's the point... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Agreed.

      I also think the study is somewhat flawed. It asked people to imagine a situation where (cc always / cc sometimes / cc never), and then asked questions relating to trust. I doubt that's a completely accurate representation. I suspect it set up an impression of a good/better/best scale, rather than three distinctly different cases.

      If someone ALWAYS CC's their boss when communicating, I don't think they trust me less. I just think that's the way they do things, and I guess I won't be very personal. I prefer this situation when it's someone from an external group (not immediate coworkers, and not just one step removed), because I know they are also going to be kept honest by including their boss. Granted, now I won't say anything I wouldn't say openly to them and their boss, but duh.

      The occasional CC'ers are the ones to watch out for. For better or worse, I fall into that group, and I try to keep it to a minimum. If there's a thread I'm on where no bosses are involved, and then I add some, you can rest assured I don't "trust" you ("trust" could mean a variety of things, but it's most often meant to be, "Yo! What the fuck? Can we stop dicking around and get this shit done already?").

      I do _NOT_ want to involve my boss, EVER (unless I happen to be working on something directly with him). I'm not going around looking for opportunities to waste my boss' time while showing him I couldn't get things done on my own. If I'm CC'ing him, we're well past the point where I don't trust things to be going as smoothly as they should. If we were talking about a wound, we'd be at the point of considering a tourniquet and/or amputation. I'd hope the recipient felt more than less trusted.

    3. Re:That's the point... by tommeke100 · · Score: 1

      If I can't trust a coworker to do the work, I don't e-mail them at all.

    4. Re:That's the point... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Totally. That's why I do it anyway.
      In fact if I have complete trust in my college I just email her/him directly or worse, just call them and take their word for it.

    5. Re:That's the point... by Austerity+Empowers · · Score: 1

      When you're working 20 hours a day, 7 days a week, what do you do? If you can't trust the coworker to do the work, he needs to go and be replaced with someone who is going to share the workload with you. This is your job, it's the means by which you feed yourself and your family, it's not yearbook club. Deadbeats can't just hang out, they're soaking up resources that someone else may better utilize.

    6. Re:That's the point... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      When you're working 20 hours a day, 7 days a week, what do you do?

      Get a new job.

    7. Re:That's the point... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      A swift CC to the boss and a "hey, what's the progress on this?" is one way to get it moving.

      I really hate that. From my limited experience, it usually indicates either a) the boss loves micro-management or b) the guy in the middle CCing it has no functional authority. Problem guys get a direct face to face, either to them or about them, not a gentle nudge. It does make me snappy to respond, but it will be with attachments of whatever material we asked for, schedule we complained about, or conflict that we told you about days ago that never got resolved that is slowing us down. If the boss isn't on the email chain for a good reason, I'll do my best to give him one.

      If you're at a place big enough to worry about passive aggressive email CCs, you have an IT staff and a security policy. They're reading whatever they want anyway.

    8. Re:That's the point... by AthanasiusKircher · · Score: 1

      If I'm CC'ing him, we're well past the point where I don't trust things to be going as smoothly as they should.

      Exactly. If you're to the point where you need to CC an authority that doesn't need to be there, you are deliberately conveying a MESSAGE that the recipient is untrusted to complete a task or whatever.

      There are other situations where it's just routine to CC a supervisor. If you get worried about those, you're just paranoid.

    9. Re:That's the point... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "Here I was warming this chair while checking my facebook all day and all of a sudden you ask me, yet AGAIN, what the status of the TPS reports is - except this time you've CC'd the big boss? Well, I tell you what buddy, I no longer trust you."

      Nobody cares, slacker. Stop closing non-work related windows when people approach your office/desk and tick off a task once in awhile.

    10. Re:That's the point... by waspleg · · Score: 1

      Doing it at all is going to make you enemies in a hurry.

    11. Re:That's the point... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      or, it's irrelevant what they do as no one else would give a damn about them at all

    12. Re:That's the point... by lindseyp · · Score: 2

      So much this! I don't CC: the boss the first time around. If I have to do it, it's to let you know I'm no longer the only one waiting for you to get your ass in gear.

      I'd hate to have someone do it all the time, though. Similarly putting "request read receipt" on emails. Sometimes necessary, but doing it all the time will get you hated with a passion.

      --
      j'ai découvert une démonstration vraiment admirable (de ce théorème général) que cette si
    13. Re:That's the point... by tommeke100 · · Score: 1

      I think the CC makes sense if, as a developer for example, you need resources that have to be set up by someone else. Databases, accounts, VMs etc...
      Probably I could do those things myself, but hey, they are responsible for it so I have to go through them.
      If after a couple of days nothing seems to be moving, it's time for some cc's.
      As for coworkers that you can't trust doing a good job, I'd rather do the job myself than delegating it. Yes, they should be let go, but if management ignores the issue there isn't much you can do about it. If you know it will take more time explaining it, fixing their bad implementation, and they won't learn anything from it and repeat the same mistakes the next time than doing it yourself, than yes I'm not going to e-mail them.

  8. Email = Billboard by choovanski · · Score: 1

    Just assume that every single email that you send is eventually being copied to every single person in the company. Problem solved.

    1. Re:Email = Billboard by Cro+Magnon · · Score: 1

      Considering how often someone accidentally hits "Reply All", that assumption is accurate.

      --
      Slow down, cowboy! It has been 4 hours since you last posted. You must wait another few hours.
  9. Duh by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    CC'ing the boss isn't meant to be helpful or foster trust. It's so the boss knows I'm doing my assignments and how I'm doing them. Fuck off with your feelings. This is a business, not gender studies class.

  10. Bad metrics by uCallHimDrJ0NES · · Score: 2

    If metrics are poor, cc'ng the boss is the only way he will know what you are working on.

    --
    Cloudiot: A person who does not see offsite storage as a way to lose control over access to his or her own data.
  11. From the land of duh? by crashumbc · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Of course, it isn't meant to make them feel trusted.

    99% of the time I cc' my boss it's because the co-worker is trying to get me involved in something I shouldn't be, or make a "end-round" my boss.

    I don't have time for that shit.

    1. Re:From the land of duh? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "end-run around" not "end round."

  12. CC anyone mentioned by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I generally will CC anyone whose name I mention in an email if they aren't already a direct part of the conversation. I've always considered it professional courtesy to do so.

  13. Then it wouldn't really help by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Re:What if they didn't know?

    Then it wouldn't really help. The whole point is to say, "The boss is watching, so don't slack off, you jack ass!" If they don't know the boss is watching, then they will behave exactly as if the boss was not watching.

    1. Re:Then it wouldn't really help by HornWumpus · · Score: 2

      By the time you have to CC the boss about coworkers BCC usually works better.

      It's not like this was the first time. What you want is for him/her to do his/her usual bullshit, but for all to see.

      The fact that I'm CCing the boss says: 'I don't trust you' not 'you should feel less trusted'.

      --
      John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
    2. Re:Then it wouldn't really help by dwywit · · Score: 1

      Yeah, it's more about the sender covering their arse. It's one of the reasons I left my last employer.

      That, and the practice of my boss' boss copying his boss in the CC, and using read receipts, and getting pissed off when people used the "don't send the read receipt" function in Outlook. Being management, his inbox limit was....large.....so he had a sub-folder for each and every employee he dealt with, above and below him, and a processing rule that put the read receipts into the employee's sub-folder, i.e. send an email to dwywit, and the read receipt would be placed into the sub-folder 'dwywit' (except I never sent them). Obviously this was his practice so that he could come down on staff who didn't read his emails. He came down heavy-handed on one of my underlings, accusing the kid of not reading his emails. The look on his face when I pointed out that 1. read receipts were optional, so there were probably a lot of people who chose not to send them, and 2. making read receipts non-optional acros the organisation would quickly fill up the mail server, was, as they say, priceless. Bonus, said underling was able to quote the email in question and answer its concerns.

      Said manager was later named in an audit report - being named in such a report is one step away from being referred to the public prosecutor. He didn't last long after that.

      And that's what happens when you promote an accountant beyond his competence, and put him in charge of IT.

      --
      They sentenced me to twenty years of boredom
    3. Re:Then it wouldn't really help by temcat · · Score: 1

      The fact that I'm CCing the boss says: 'I don't trust you' not 'you should feel less trusted'.

      This. I mean, whoop-de-doo, not trusting someone makes them feel less trusted!

  14. Helpful? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    your colleague doesn't find it helpful

    What if I don't certain colleagues "helpful" and wish to apply a little pressure? I've had my fill of fake indian masters degrees and IT posers that haven't learned anything new since 1998. I use whatever is at my disposal to motivate them to do their jobs, and when they fuck up and cop out with excuses I make sure the right people see it. That way when the layoff cycle comes around the dead wood is correctly identified.

  15. Yep by markdavis · · Score: 1

    >"Do you ever loop your boss when having a conversation with a colleague when his or her presence in the thread wasn't really necessary?"

    Yes. It is rare, but does happen. And when it does, I usually will ignore the Email and delete it. It is usually when another Director/VP thinks it will motivate me to do something, and I quietly illustrate to them it has the exact opposite effect. If they later ask me about the Email, I will say something like "well, looked like you were trying to talk to the CEO and not me."

    1. Re:Yep by Darinbob · · Score: 1

      So by doing the exact opposite of being motivated, how does that help your career advancement?

  16. Escalate! by Thelasko · · Score: 3

    1. The first email is only between the two pertinent parties.
    2. If there is no response, the second email has the other person's supervisor CC'd.
    3. If there is still no response, the supervisor's supervisor is CC'd
    4. Repeat until desired results achieved, or reprimanded. (I've yet to be reprimanded).

    --
    One of our competitors trademarked the term "hypothesis". From now on, we will call them "boneheaded ideas".
    1. Re:Escalate! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "Excuse me, I believe you have my stapler..."

    2. Re:Escalate! by waspleg · · Score: 1

      Holy fuck what an asshole. I'm guessing these are all in the span of half an hour too. I hope never work with you =)

    3. Re:Escalate! by PrimaryConsult · · Score: 1

      Heh, that approach doesn't get very far with me. Emails are prioritized by me based on how many top priority tasks I have, followed by how much I like the person requesting, followed by how easy the task is. Someone who does that very quickly gets the "I'm sorry you must submit a ticket for that" cold shoulder. The officially published SLA is 2 weeks for my group's ticket queue.

    4. Re:Escalate! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Someone who does that very quickly gets the "I'm sorry you must submit a ticket for that" cold shoulder. The officially published SLA is 2 weeks for my group's ticket queue.

      Sure, and in no time, your entire department got "relocated" to India cuz they work just the same way, with the same or better SLA, at 1/3 the cost.

    5. Re:Escalate! by PrimaryConsult · · Score: 1

      The official policy is that all work goes through tickets. As in, we are not following the proper procedure when we directly work off of an email/email chain. The type of person who whines to middle management when their email is ignored is most certainly going to bring attention to work done outside of the approved channels if we accommodate them (as in, if we do something nice once, they'll expect it every time and complain all the way to the top when we don't, at which point we'll get yelled at for having done something nice). The type of person who follows up without ever including management understands how things actually work, and they get the cookie.

  17. Sometimes it's not about trust. by jdharm · · Score: 1

    Sometimes, like when there are competent people under him, the boss just wants to be kept in the loop. I work with a bunch of good people. We get things done and make things happen. If we didn't CC him he'd have no clue what we were up to and he'd be way behind real quick. Sometimes it takes a while to get something done and impatient people ask the boss, "What's taking so long?" He just doesn't want to look like an idiot and say, "Uhhhhhh....I have no idea what you're talking about." Makes him look incompetent. It isn't a matter of trust, it's just about CYA.

  18. Wrong perspective by TFlan91 · · Score: 3, Interesting

    My boss gives me the freedom to handle clients as needed. He requests being kept in the loop for some of the more wealthy clients, but honestly I cc him most email correspondence.

    CC'ing my boss ensures that my boss sees the ridiculousness from clients I have to deal with everyday.

    1. Re:Wrong perspective by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Seriously.

      As an adult, I find most people comprehend the fact that we don't live in some dystopian technocommunist future where "The Boss" is a spoopy oversized portrait with a fine moustache hanging on the wall.

      Upper levels of management often need to be kept in the loop.

      If you're pissing yourself because "the Boss" has been CC'd, you're probably shit at your job.

    2. Re:Wrong perspective by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This applies to non client interactions too. I like my boss to be cc'd on everything people send me so that they know all the crap I have to deal with. Its not gonna bother me if people cc my boss.

    3. Re:Wrong perspective by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Go and register a business name and see how long it takes for the mustache societies to start sending you advertising!

      You're probably not on the promotion track with such a poor attitude towards mustaches.

  19. My email etiquette by Ogive17 · · Score: 3, Interesting

    I only include the "higher ups" if they specifically requested to be part of the update/email chain or if the person I am trying to contact has been unresponsive through multiple channels (email/phone for suppliers, face to face discussions for internal people).

    --
    "Action without philosophy is a lethal weapon; philosophy without action is worthless."
  20. As A Recipient by tranquilidad · · Score: 1

    The author of an email that cc's their boss should be more worried about the boss's perception than whether the coworker feels less trusted. Copying the boss on an email is often an attempt to create a CYA moment with, "Well, I told you about it," or a passive-aggressive way to tell on a co-worker without taking responsibility or a way of telling a co-worker, "You better do what I'm asking or mommy/daddy are going to come after you."

    I used to get copied on stuff all the time and finally told those reporting to me, "Don't copy me on an email unless you expect me to take an action. If I need to be informed about something then send me a direct email with an explanation of why I need to know about it." For some, the directive didn't take until I started taking action based solely on the content of their email.

    1. Re:As A Recipient by mchall · · Score: 0

      Copying the boss on an email is often an attempt to create a CYA moment with, "Well, I told you about it," or a passive-aggressive way to tell on a co-worker without taking responsibility or a way of telling a co-worker, "You better do what I'm asking or mommy/daddy are going to come after you.".

      It's only "passive-aggressive" if the person hasn't previously tried to resolve the situation with their co-worker and discussed it with the boss if an impasse is reached. If the boss is on the same page then I'd loop him/her in as needed/requested. If not, then I'd file communications away in case HR comes knocking. Coaching/disciplining peers is above my pay grade.

  21. Reply by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I have found that CC'ing the boss or other person of authority results in a (quick) reply about 95% of the time. In some companies, without CC'ing an email you are far less likely to get a timely reply; if one at all.

  22. If I CC your boss by OrangeTide · · Score: 1

    If I write you an email and Cc your boss, then you have done something that I believe needs to be corrected.
    You are right to feel less trusted, that is exactly what I am attempting to communicate.

    --
    “Common sense is not so common.” — Voltaire
  23. Slashdot, not for the literate by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Do you ever loop your boss when having a conversation with a colleague when his or her presence in the thread wasn't really necessary? Turns out, many people do this, and your colleague doesn't find it helpful at all.

    Do you remember when story descriptions were constructed from coherent sentences featuring full phrases that included pronouns?

    1. Re: Slashdot, not for the literate by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Please give generously; with just a few short key words msmash will be able to form paragraphs at 6th grade level. With significant improvement over many years, this may eventually lead to articles of a standard suitable to be published on a major news site.

  24. This never ends well... by __aaclcg7560 · · Score: 1

    I had supervisor who thought I tried to get the last supervisor fired because I documented everything — and refused to stop documenting everything when he told me to do so after he became supervisor. He told me to cc'd him on all emails because he didn't trust me. So I did. Unlike other people in the department, I had a lot of emails going in and out of my inbox. He got a flood of emails. Since he insisted on being cc'd to my emails, I kept deferring to him for decisions on everything. He gave up on the email and switched to a remote desktop monitoring program.

    1. Re:This never ends well... by 110010001000 · · Score: 1

      Was he the same guy who fired you for being so awesome at your job (when you were better than 3 employees combined but he fired you because he couldn't handle firing them, but could handle firing you instead?)

    2. Re:This never ends well... by __aaclcg7560 · · Score: 1

      I've already answered this question the other day. Why don't you troll someone else?

    3. Re: This never ends well... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If you feel the need to repost shit every time. Why shouldn't he feel free to ask for clarification. If you want to have a private conversation, talk to your non existent gf.

      How's that 1500 calorie diet? Still at 350 pounds years later? Set any new power lifting records? Maybe you could self publish a book about it, the cold fusion kevels of energy extracted must be of vital interest and make it a guaranteed chart topper in the scientific community and the world....

    4. Re: This never ends well... by __aaclcg7560 · · Score: 1

      If you feel the need to repost shit every time.

      This is the first time I wrote about cc'ing the supervisor. Yes, a new story relevant to topic. Miracles and wonders abound.

      How's that 1500 calorie diet? Still at 350 pounds years later?

      The analog weight scales at the gym are no longer "thunking" at 350 pounds. One scale says I'm 334 pounds and the other one won't settle between 325 and 350 pounds. I got a 400-pound digital scale on order from Amazon. Otherwise, the 1,500 calorie per day diet is going fine.

      Set any new power lifting records?

      My power lifting days were 10+ years ago.

    5. Re: This never ends well... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Sounds like a serious math problem in counting "servings." I recommend buying a kitchen scale.

    6. Re: This never ends well... by __aaclcg7560 · · Score: 1

      Sounds like a serious math problem in counting "servings." I recommend buying a kitchen scale.

      My portions are correct for a 1,500-calorie diet. You're assuming that I should be able to lose weight if I'm eating less than the recommended 2,000 calories per day. A recent fat study of the 2009 Biggest Losers contestant showed that they had a slower metabolism that never returned to normal (one contestant's metabolism required 800 fewer calories) and gained weight on the recommended 2,000-calorie diet. It's possible that my metabolism requires less calories than I'm currently eating.

      https://www.nytimes.com/2016/05/02/health/biggest-loser-weight-loss.html

  25. If this is news to you... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    You have crap people skills and your coworkers likely shake their head internally at you.

    Plus, odds are, your boss doesnt want to be CCed in the first place. If you want your boss to know something, write them a summary or present the data in an easily digestible format. Dont make them fish for data in someone else's conversation, wtf are you thinking.

  26. CC'ing The Boss by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    CC'ing the boss is like a child saying "I'm going to tell mommy on you!!"

    1. Re:CC'ing The Boss by HornWumpus · · Score: 1

      Another argument for BCC.

      --
      John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
  27. Duh by Curunir_wolf · · Score: 2

    Where did the money come from for this useless "study"? Everybody knows this. I only CC the boss when either I know he's watching the project, or the person I'm email needs prompting to get their shit done.

    --
    "Somebody has to do something. It's just incredibly pathetic it has to be us."
    --- Jerry Garcia
  28. From the Web by Curunir_wolf · · Score: 1

    "Sponsored Links". That box is annoying AF. Dammit! Shrink the whole comments area or something! There's only a tiny vertical space where the comments are visible, because that box covers the whole right side of the comment content.

    --
    "Somebody has to do something. It's just incredibly pathetic it has to be us."
    --- Jerry Garcia
  29. How Khan Academy handles email transparency by Paul+Fernhout · · Score: 5, Interesting

    http://bjk5.com/post/718871964...
    "Every team has two email addresses: one for team members and one for the team's "blackhole." [For example: ] analytics-team@khanacademy.org and analytics-blackhole@khanacademy.org.
        The -team@ address is for emailing all members of the team. When you send email to analytics-team@, you expect everyone on the analytics team to read it. Subscribing to analytics-team@ means analytics-related email will land in your priority inbox as soon as it's sent, and you're expected to read it.
        The -blackhole@ address is for anything else that has anything to do with analytics. When you CC:analytics-blackhole@, you don't expect subscribers to immediately read it. Subscribing to analytics-blackhole@ means you'll receive analytics-related email, but it'll get filtered out of your inbox and you're not expected to read it unless you feel like it. ... Anybody in the org can join any of these email lists. analytics-team@ is usually just team members, but analytics-blackhole@ has all sorts of lookie-loo subscribers who're interested in analytics happenings."

    The approach was derived from how Stripe does it: https://stripe.com/blog/email-...

    So, given the original story, maybe this transparency approach has an extra side effect (perhaps unintended) of maintaining trust in an organization by avoiding the "directly CC-ing the boss" effect?

    It's not quite BCCing the whole company -- like Tesen joked -- as it is more organized. But essentially the whole company could in theory read (almost) anything with that approach.

    --
    A 21st century issue: the irony of technologies of abundance in the hands of those still thinking in terms of scarcity.
  30. Easy fix. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The team I work with recently attended a brief refresher course on professional email etiquette...and this exact situation was covered. The recommendation was to always include a short explanation, in the email, of why the boss (or anyone else for that matter) is being cc'd. It actually works too. Once employees are expected to justify the inclusion of the second party, suddenly there are few unnecessary occurrences.

  31. what's happening by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    You forgot to CC me your TPS report

  32. My boss vs your boss by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I used to CC my boss to get coverage or priority help or if she asked to be in-the-loop on something. For example, a systems outage that prevents 22K employees from doing their jobs for a day. Multiple SVPs were in those sorts of loops and rightly so.

    If I CC your boss, it is because you've been unreliable OR you asked for help to get your priorities managed so you can help me. Folks are busy and sometimes their boss doesn't have all the facts when prioritizing.

    The key is to let the bosses know when they can help when they actually still CAN HELP. That is what the boss-level is for.

  33. Makes perfect sense. by viperidaenz · · Score: 1

    One of the reasons you CC someone up the food chain is because you don't trust the person you're sending the email to to do their job.

  34. No Shit Sherlock by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Seriously? They needed a 'study' to figure this out? I avoid including anyone's manager (even my own) on any e-mail that doesn't need a Manager's assistance. I might forward an e-mail to my Manager as an 'FYI' especially to avoid the 'why didn't you tell me about this' phenomenon (e.g. where your own boss demonstrates he/she doesn't trust you). And I NEVER include someone else's manager unless I am making it 100% DAMN clear that if the person an e-mail is directed towards isn't helpful I will 'escalate'...so yeah, I use it specifically to demonstrate a level of 'mis-trust'.

    And of course I NEVER BCC anyone. I don't know why the 'inventors' of e-mail thought this was a good idea (I understand what a 'BCC' is & the history with physical memos being sent but e-mail was never the same as a 'memo'). I've had people 'BCC' someone & I do a 'reply all' which catches the people BCC'd & I don't catch it & then type something not necessarily 'appropriate' (not rude just not something the BCC'd person should see) & that caused issues. People who use BCC should be shot. Forward the e-mail as an 'FYI' or use CC but you should never use BCC with the commensurate potential for the obvious issues with 'reply all'.

  35. In other news by jrq · · Score: 1

    Bear shits in wood. Pope wears funny hat.

    --
    My UID is prime!
  36. Always switch the boss to BCC before replying. by spikenerd · · Score: 1

    This shows the boss you are responsive, but also sends a subtle message (to both your boss and the co-worker) that you are above that game. As a boss, my opinion of any subordinate would go down if they resort to such demoralizing behavior. I don't want people like that destroying the morale on my team.

  37. Trust by jdavidb · · Score: 1

    I would rather that I feel trust than you feel trusted, but that's a feeling only you can create by acting in a trustworthy manner and inviting accountability. I welcome the boss being CC'ed on all emails to me if it makes someone feel better about me.

  38. Objective: Goal by Neuronwelder · · Score: 2

    Fear and Low Psychological Safety is the the goal of many a corporation. I worked as a temp for many companies and.. sorry, this is the main theme of most. Management, in their twisted and convoluted minds, they think that somehow they will get more work out of you if you are sad and divided up. Maybe they think that brief socializing is "unproductive" and don't understand that friendly bonds that foster true team spirit are important for good mental health and working better together? Or they think that laughter is counter productive, and rush to see what the "problem" is the second you laugh? (P.S. Stay far away from people who gossip!, Or as you say C.C.)

  39. Re:CCing is a legit intimidation technique by Austerity+Empowers · · Score: 2

    Or, if you are asking a peer who you do not manage and has his own tasks, to do something you ask, you CC the boss who will resolve priorities. Or, if you talked to the boss and he asked you to ask peer to do said thing, you CC the boss. Generally I expect the boss to be controlling resources and managing priorities, he really ought to be copied on a lot of mails. If that peer is doing exceptional work that he doesn't even have to do, CC'ing the boss is also the way of making sure the boss knows said person is doing really well, I also CC the boss on that sort of thing. I want good people to be incentivized to stay every bit as much as I want to help identify bad people who can be incentivized to leave.

    I was nervous about people CCing the boss when I was fresh out of college, but I got over it the hard way. The consequence of NOT CC'ing the boss, in my experience, is people not delivering and the boss blaming ME, and asking why he wasn't CC'd. So now any time I am making a request that involves real work, and asking someone to stop doing what they're doing, I CC the boss.

    Honestly the only person with a legitimate reason to complain about CC'ing the boss, is the boss. That has never happened.

  40. The ONLY time ... by CaptainDork · · Score: 1

    ... I ever CC'd the boss was like:

    To: asshole@suckycompany.com
    From: Me

    Subject: Your stuff still doesn't work ...

    I know that you want to make my firm happy, and you know I do too.

    So far, I'm the only one making any positive contributions, which results in your company's performance sucking big time.

    Because you are incompetent, I am CC'ing my boss, your boss, and, to get the point across I'm CC'ing YOU.

    Please fix this before end of work day Friday or I will be scheduling a meeting with you, me, my boss, and your boss on Monday.

    Sincerely,

    Me

    CC: Me, You, My Boss, Your Boss

    --
    It little behooves the best of us to comment on the rest of us.
  41. but they want the cc by Mozai · · Score: 1

    At more than one place I've worked, our higher-ups have told us to cc them on just about everything. I keep thinking I only need to pester them if we need their guidance or their resources, but I'm told over and over that management wants to have full awareness, and it's a mistake if I don't include them by cc. So it's not that I don't trust my co-workers, it's that my bosses want to be aware of all our interactions and I get in trouble for being discrete.

  42. you know... by buddyglass · · Score: 3

    If people would pay attention and respond to emails without my/their boss CC'd then I wouldn't feel the need to CC him/her. Do your job and I don't have to go over your/our head(s).

  43. I CC the boss when I want their attention by rsilvergun · · Score: 1

    because you're either blowing me off or screwing me over. If you see my Boss on an email chain then congratulations, you done fucked up son, and I'm comin' for ya.

    --
    Hi! I make Firefox Plug-ins. Check 'em out @ https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/youtube-mp3-podcaster/
    1. Re:I CC the boss when I want their attention by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's all very subjective. In cases where an employee is blowing off work etc, obviously actions like this need to be taken..to "encourage" the employee, "paper" trail, inform supervisor etc.

      However I more often see this as a default action from "poor" colleagues. One individual in one department at my company feels IT should work 24/7 at his whim and his default behavior for any interaction is to CC up the chain. It immediately signals to me that this is my lowest priority because fuck him. In these scenarios it is completely counter productive and he is being a douche.

  44. Boss mail by buss_error · · Score: 1

    I hate having my boss looped in, because then he wants what I'm doing. I tell him, and even if it's exactly the same thing he told me to do last time, I get told "that's not what I want" and then ... it goes down hill. Despite the fact I love working for my boss, despite the fact I love working for this company, I decided earlier today that "it's time to move on". I've been in IT for multiple decades. I don't have any sort of diva pride - I just want to do the job my boss wants me to do, the way he wants it done. But a constantly moving goal post is a race that gets pretty old after two years, and I'm ready for a new kind of waltz. One where I don't feel like I have three left feet and one of them is in a bucket of cement.

    --
    Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves.
  45. Fuck that. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I've been in too many companies where "private conversations" talking frank about issues end up being brought up in other meetings and suddenly "Well, so-and-so says it's easy and can do this" when in reality, nothing of the sort was said. So my philosophy has become, if it involves work, my boss is copied in so he can step in and say "Hey, that's out of our scope, but if you want to talk about it, let's figure out who would actually do this sort of work." , etc. if that means people don't invite me into work email chains, that's fine by me.

  46. Two separate things here by Attila+Dimedici · · Score: 1
    There are two separate things here: CCing the recipient's boss, CCing the sender's boss. When the sender CC's the recipient's boss they are usually trying to apply pressure to the recipient by going over their head. The overwhelming majority of the times people have done this to me it is because they want me to do something which violates my understanding of company policy. Since the majority of the time, my understanding of company policy is the same as my boss', this usually fails. Sometimes my boss sees their point and changes policy. Sometimes the other person has sufficient clout that their take on company policy overrides my boss'. Very rarely, my understanding of policy was wrong (the reason this happens so rarely is not because I am such a genius about company policy, rather it is because if I am not absolutely sure about company policy on an issue where someone is pushing me, I CC my boss first).

    When the sender CC's their own boss, it is usually one of four things:
    1. 1)The sender wants to make sure his boss has his back on the position he is about to take on the issue under dispute
    2. 2)The sender thinks the situation has potential complications which his boss should not be blindsided by
    3. 3)The sender thinks the decision is one which should be made at a higher level (if higher than his boss, it is his boss' job to decide who)
    4. 4)The sender is covering his ass in case things go badly (and he thinks they are likely to go badly)
    5. Oh there is a fifth reason, although this could apply to both types: the sender is a complete douchebag.

    --
    The truth is that all men having power ought to be mistrusted. James Madison
  47. ..wait...wait ...wait by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    It works here. People are so lazy that if you don't copy the boss they would just not do anything. When you copy their boss (and sometime yours) those lazy ass will move and do some working finally.

  48. Team by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    If you are truly working on a team, and not just a bunch of individuals, then CC'ing everyone including the boss is the way to go. If you have a boss that's an arsehat, I could understand the fear. A boss that either leads by example or is also a team player, then it makes sense to include them. I guess I take this for granted, as I have had been a part of a great team for the last 6 years.

    1. Re:Team by Monkey · · Score: 1

      Exactly this. As a "boss" I'm part of the team. My guys CC me on shit because they trust me and they value the 25 years of experience I have in our field. When shit goes down, it helps that the boss has been in the loop and has had at least the opportunity to weigh in before things go off the rails instead of being brought in after the fact to do damage control.

      At the same time, I recognize that this only works if I'm treating this information flow as simply that. I usually skim most of the e-mail I'm CC'd on for potential issues (which I'll talk to people out-of-band, rather than in direct response to the e-mail) just to keep a general idea of where things are at. That's my job as a manager.

      As a counterpoint, I've also seen managers who get CC'd on everything take that as an opportunity to micro-manage.

  49. Especially when required by jlgreer1 · · Score: 0

    Title says it all. CCing the boss isn't too bad if it is informational but terrible when required.

  50. Peopleware book on team spirit & also "e(vil)m by Paul+Fernhout · · Score: 2

    "Peopleware: Productive Projects and Teams" explains how supporting true team spirit is a key aspect of a high-performance organization. You can find some good evidence in there for your point.

    The authors also explain better ways to manage email. Here are subheadings from the book chapter:

    Chapter 33: E(vil) Mail 199
    In Days of Yore 199
    Corporate Spam 200
    What Does "FYI" Even Mean? 200
    Is This an Open Organization or a Commune? 201
    Repeal Passive Consent 201
    Building a Spam-less Self-Coordinating Organization 202

    In general, their focus on good use of email is on helping people in organizations self-coordinate. It is more a vision of the manager as supporting good communications within and between teams versus than a manager being a hub of communications. So, to them, lots of CCs on emails suggest the possibility of some sort of organizational dysfunction which could be corrected by training people to be more self-coordinating.

    That book is the second item I list here in a curated reading list on creating and sustaining high-performance organizations:
    https://github.com/pdfernhout/...

    Another book by one of the authors (Tom DeMarco) is listed as the first item: "Slack: Getting Past Burnout, Busywork, and the Myth of Total Efficiency"

    But, this is all easier said than done in practice.

    --
    A 21st century issue: the irony of technologies of abundance in the hands of those still thinking in terms of scarcity.
  51. gpg by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    sign only will work no real need to encrypt unless there is.

  52. CCing the boss to indicate approval by PrimaryConsult · · Score: 1

    I haven't seen anyone mention this, but I will typically CC the boss if I'm asking for something that should be questioned. For example, if I'm asking for access to a system or application managed by a different team, or card access to a new building, or creation of a new vlan. Usually simply CC'ing the boss is enough to bypass any questions, but in case they do ask "is there approval for this" the boss is already on the chain to say "yes".

  53. Depends on Culture by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    When there's a culture of controlling and distrust, CC means "do it now or face the consequences".

    When there's a culture of cooperation and trust, CC means everybody being on track what's currently happening. Yes, instead of a random coworker whose duties lies elsewhere, it's then better for your boss to know in case you're calling in sick for a day without that being cause for alarm. You can call in sick in your country, right?

    No wonder corporate life is like a huge, tall and black labyrinth when everyone is supposed to be so secretive about what they're doing and whom they're doing it with!

    1. Re:Depends on Culture by Darinbob · · Score: 1

      Yup, I feel I'm spending too much time sweeping up messes that could have been fixed by having some conversations weeks earlier. I'd much rather hear someone say that they might be late than for them to actually be late at the same time that I'm telling my boss that everything is going smoothly. I'd much rather critique in a design review than to find out in the code review that everything is done wrong, and yet the latter seems to happen more often. I have a few people that never send me ask questions in email or in person unless I'm walking past their cubicles. I don't necessarily think this is about secrecy, but some people seem like they don't like to communicate and just want to huddle up inside the cube.

    2. Re:Depends on Culture by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If you're the leader, it's up to you to initiate contact. You should think about how often you need to talk to each of your team, and work to make that consistent. A manager should directly talk to each of his direct reports regularly, if that means twice a day, once a day, twice a week, whatever works for your team. The important thing is that you're responsible for how the team communicates, you need to set this up and make sure it happens.

  54. Re: CCing is a legit intimidation technique by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Amen to that. The one thing that's gotten me to start CC'ing the boss back in the day is the fact that if the guy on the other side is not in the same department as you, they'd often just ignore the email entirely unless it's got their manager on CC.

  55. D'oh? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    CC'ing the boss is what you do *precisely because* you don't otherwise trust your colleague to respond to or come through on the matter. Of course that makes them feel untrusted, that's the whole point of it.

  56. And in other news... by thermidor · · Score: 2

    And in other news, researchers find ursine mammals typically defaecate in arborial landscapes.

  57. It's not always clear when to cc the boss by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I'm a manager of technical people and there are times the boss simply should be cc'd. Of the threads I get cc'd on unexpectedly from a team member, they almost always fall into two categories 1) a decision has to be made that potentially affects multiple teams or is judgment call with no clear winner 2) someone contacted a team member directly looking for long-term work that's a bit excessive without clearing it with me first who needs to make sure no team member is overloaded or that it would impact the main schedule.

    The first is simply "I'm sending this one up". Did I need to be cc'd? Maybe, maybe not. It depends on how difficult the decision really is and what the impact is.Maybe they could have decide themselves but if the decision is in a gray area then there is no harm in checking just in case I was aware of something else from other team members or outside the team that had an impact. Is that a trust thing? I don't really think so, at worst they're looking for cover if the decision turns out to be wrong so I'll back them up.

    The second one is "I want to tell this guy to gtfo and you're going to help me". That may or may not be a trust thing, depends on who else is on the thread and what the load factor of the team member is. Usually a friendly reminder that direct mails to team members do not help schedules if we decide to push back. Think I only once had to tell a team member to always cc me without comment if he was contacted by a particular person until the clue finally sank in that if he wants work done properly, time needs to be set aside for it (not detailed planning, just picking something to defer to make room for a higher priority item).

    Computers might be binary but decisions about work are not. Maybe cc'ing the boss will violate trust but if that's a risk then put an explanation why the cc is being added at the start of the mail. Hopefully the explanation is a reasonable one and not just "nyah, nyah, I'm telling teacher/boss" or "I hate you and want to see you thrown under a bus".

  58. Researchers found phase transition of H2O at 0 C by gotan · · Score: 2

    Researchers found out that H2O, commonly known as "Water", surprisingly undergoes a phase transition at zero degrees Celsius under normal atmospheric pressure.

    The paper is still under review, but our experimental studies on 594 samples of the substance found that liquid H2O becomes solid when cooled below this temperature. The presence of the solid state was confirmed by probing (poking) the substance with a sophisticated testing device (finger).

    By testing with different temperature ranges, including randomized temperatures, it was confirmed that the transition happens at or close to zero degrees Celsius.

    --
    "By the way if anyone here is in advertising or marketing... kill yourself." -- Bill Hicks
  59. CCing a manager is a 'trigger' for people. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I regularly CC my manager on e-mails which I send.
    The primary reasons are:
    1. The person I'm communicating with isn't performing their duties, and I'm not the one who's going to be thrown under the bus.
    2. Someone is attempting to get information from me and refuse to go through the proper channels.
    3. Someone wants information in which they don't have the required business justification.
    4. I'm passing praise onto the person [I'll also CC their manager as well].

    If I need to BCC my manager, it's because I don't want to take the time to forward the e-mail to him.
    Primary reason is:
    1. Something he should know, but doesn't need to take action on.

    I have heard management saw, "if you BCC management on an e-mail, you're attempting to get the receiver in trouble". I countered with, "no, if you and their management get an e-mail from me directly saying their fucking up, THAT'S when I'm trying to distant myself from that department."

    However with reading the summary, it appears that CCing someone on an e-mail is a trigger for the receiver. If they close their e-mail client, is that the same as a safe-room or safety pin?

  60. This reprehensible activity had to be studied? by fygment · · Score: 1

    Seriously. Nobody knew this?

    I'll go a step further: You're no longer exchanging a view, you are tacitly indicating that the correspondance is now one way: "me (and the boss) to you". Cc'ing any senior means you are at best a 'toady' sucking up to the senior or a 'bully' using the senior's e-presence to quell any discussion.

    The action also has side effects. It can clog a senior's inbox losing useful correspondance in the 'noise' of all the frivolous Cc's.

    --
    "Consensus" in science is _always_ a political construct.
  61. well good by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I CC the boss because I don't trust those lying back-stabbing motherfuckers.

    Learned my lesson the first time somebody tried to sabotage one of my projects and nearly got me fired.

  62. I see no problem with CC by Cro+Magnon · · Score: 1

    It's SOP with my current boss. I CC him on all of my stuff to keep him in the loop. My previous boss didn't have that policy. And, when I CCd her, it was usually because things weren't getting done, and she could light a much hotter fire under that person's butt than I could.

    --
    Slow down, cowboy! It has been 4 hours since you last posted. You must wait another few hours.
  63. Well DUH by CharlieG · · Score: 1

    Unless it is a status email or email where the party I'm emailing knows the info has to go to the boss (as he may want say) I don't CC, but frankly over the years, I've done this when, frankly I _DON'T_ trust the person!
    I've had more than one situation over the gasp 40 YEARS I've been working where you'd tell coworker X, and they would deny you did, and you'd have to jump through hoops to make your manager (and sometimes their manager) believe you
    The problem is often solved by "CC:Their Manager, Your Manager"
    Gee, you mean it makes the person say "CharlieG doesn't trust me" - well DUH.
        I won't do it until the first time I'm under the bus because of you, but after that, I'm trying to not only cover MY ass, but also send the message "No, I DON'T trust you" - not only to you, but to my manager and YOUR manager that I no longer trust you.
    BTW, there was also probably an email to my manager (in my case, my 'manager' is the CEO), and your manager about why they were being CC'd (aka how you threw me/the project under the bus) that YOU were not CC'd. When you get to the level I'm at, this is usually about a person who reports to a fellow manager, and the CC/BCC might even be going to the CEO/HR as part of a documentation trail

    --
    -- 73 de KG2V For the Children - RKBA! "You are what you do when it counts" - the Masso
  64. As "the boss" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Please don't cc me on everything. It only serves to clutter my inbox with emails that are not actionable. I only want to be cc'd if I need to be aware of the situation (something is not getting done on time, or may require my assistance with senior management).

  65. Explains a lot by T.E.D. · · Score: 1

    I do this a lot actually.

    Its very rare that I do this because I want the boss person to get involved. I do to keep them from swinging by my office and interrupting whatever I'm doing so they can ask how that particular activity is going (at which point I have to dig up that exact email to refresh my own memory). It also keeps them happier with me, which in the long run keeps me happier.

    If I want them to *participate*, I'll add them on the recipient list, not the cc's.

  66. Number One Rule... by sycodon · · Score: 3, Insightful

    ...never let your boss get blindsided by anything you are even remotely related to if you can help it.

    If you have information, reservations, disagreements with anyone, co-workers, customers, no matter, loop your boss in on it. The Boss is there to coordinate and clear obstacles so that you can do your job and so the company can achieve its goals (at least in a healthy, sane organization).

    There are always two sides at least to everything and each "side" will go up the other chain of command. If you don't keep your management involved, they will look like fools when asked about it in their meetings and they have no knowledge or response. That will then come back to you.

    If your colleagues are professionals, they will understand and will do it themselves.

    --
    When Fascism comes to America, it will call itself Anti-Fascism, and tell you to give up your guns.
  67. obvious by carnivore302 · · Score: 1

    Is this from the department "open doors"?

    --
    Please login to access my lawn
  68. Devils in the Details by DarthVain · · Score: 1

    Is what my lawyer father always told me...

    In this case if he got those emails and disseminated the information to networkBoy *prior* to receiving HRLegal confidentiality training I'd argue it was of no fault of his own! :p

    1. Re:Devils in the Details by networkBoy · · Score: 1

      Which in fact was the case, and why I don't know the resolution to said cases...
      The first two are fairly obvious outcomes, but that last doosie...
      *man* I want to know how that turned out.

      Of course another possibility is that the training was fine, but I'm a snoopy BOFH and I read his email via wireshark and hub connected between his computer and the corp LAN...

      --
      whois gawk date unzip strip find touch finger mount join nice man top fsck grep eject more yes exit umount sleep dump
  69. OK, got it. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I won't apply to work at Subway then.

  70. You can apply #5 to me. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Yes, I'm THAT guy. I've found that being a dick is rather freeing.

  71. With my boss by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    It's for visibility and awareness- not lack of trust.

  72. Why am I here? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    This goes both ways. I have a couple dozen employees. I trust all of them (otherwise they wouldn't work for me.. Right?). This leads me to wonder why I am occasionally included in some of these mundane email threads. Occasionally I will reply with, "People. Why am I included in this conversation?"

    Word of thought. If your organization is run properly then CCing your boss probably annoys him/her too.

  73. As if that makes a difference by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Do you honestly believe the boss reads all of those emails? (S)He would probably prefer that you cut it out, but they don't want to actually say that because it "stifles communication".