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Trump's FCC Votes To Allow Broadband Rate Hikes Will Deprive More Public Schools From Getting Internet Access (theoutline.com)

The FCC voted on Thursday to approve a controversial plan to deregulate the $45 billion market for business-to-business broadband, also known as Business Data Services (BDS), by eliminating price caps that make internet access more affordable for thousands of small businesses, schools, libraries and hospitals. The Outline adds: The price caps were designed to keep phone and, later, broadband, access cheap for community institutions like schools, hospitals, libraries, and small businesses. Now, there will be no limit. A spokesperson for the trade association Incompas, which advocates for competition among communications providers, told The Outline that the increase is expected to be at least 25 percent across the board. Low-income schools already don't have enough money; according to a report last year in The Atlantic, schools in high-poverty districts, where the property taxes are lower, spend 15.6 percent less per student than schools in low-poverty districts. If internet costs go up by 25 percent, it may make more sense to cut that budget item, or, for schools that still don't have internet, never add it at all. Add it to the list of things that well-funded schools in already-rich neighborhoods get that schools in low-income neighborhoods don't. New textbooks. Gyms. Advanced Placement classes that let students earn college credits. Computers. Internet access.

41 of 257 comments (clear)

  1. Make America Great Again by kbdd · · Score: 5, Insightful
    We already have the most expensive broadband services of most countries (and not even the best performance), now the price is going to go even higher.

    I can feel America returning to greatness at breakneck pace...

    1. Re:Make America Great Again by fahrbot-bot · · Score: 4, Informative

      Do you really think that, with all of the competition in markets, they will actually raise their prices? Seriously?

      "All of the competition?" My area is widely served by exactly two ISPs: Cox and Verizon.

      --
      It must have been something you assimilated. . . .
    2. Re:Make America Great Again by stealth_finger · · Score: 2

      Euro-internet access is, on average, the same. 20mbit ADSL in Italy is about 35 euro plau 20%vat.

      Do you really think that, with all of the competition in markets, they will actually raise their prices? Seriously?

      The difference is in Europe there actually is competition.

      --
      Wanna buy a shirt?
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    3. Re:Make America Great Again by jonsmirl · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Trump is not paying one bit of attention to the FCC. Pai is an out control representative of Verizon, not voters. The question is, will Pai's utter corruption have consequences at the polls causing Trump/Congress to start paying attention?

      The other part of this -- rate relief is generally provided when the vendors are unable to make a profit. Most of the B2B lines already carry profit margins exceeding 90%. This is just simple corruption - remove the price caps so that monopoly vendors can gouge until the customer can no longer pay. Removing net neutrality is also just another way to gouge companies like Google, Netflix, Facebook. The ISPs are hugely profitable, they just want even more.

      What's driving this? Verizon paid $130B for Vodaphone. The have to make the money to pay off that $130B somewhere, and US customers are the target. Of course we are getting nothing in exchange for being gouged to pay off their Vodaphone purchase.

    4. Re:Make America Great Again by GLMDesigns · · Score: 2, Interesting

      So. Price caps are a "Good Thing." Wage and Price freezes have been tried many times from Roman Times, to the Soviet Union, to the US and it doesn't work.

      Can you find examples of it helping? Yes. But does it work for the economy as a whole?

      I'll let you figure that out.

      How's it working in Venezuela?

      --
      If you're scared of your govt then you need to further restrict its powers
      Vote 3rd Party in 2016 and beyond
    5. Re:Make America Great Again by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Holy Shit! You have choices?! I have Charter and uhhh every now and then ATT sends me a letter saying i may qualify for dsl or u-verse only to say Oops, our bad, when i call about it. I guess i can get 10GB/month on Satellite or maybe dial up services if those count?

    6. Re:Make America Great Again by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      It's true that economies become more efficient when monopoly effects are allowed to run unchecked.

    7. Re:Make America Great Again by K.+S.+Kyosuke · · Score: 2

      Price caps in monopolies, even regional ones, are definitely a good thing because moving is not always easy or justified for such reasons.

      --
      Ezekiel 23:20
    8. Re:Make America Great Again by marcgvky · · Score: 2

      Source, please?

    9. Re:Make America Great Again by mrclevesque · · Score: 4, Funny

      "price controls simply don't work"

      Generalizations simply don't work?

    10. Re:Make America Great Again by Jason+Levine · · Score: 2

      I've had someone try to tell me that DSL, satellite, and wireless services count as competition for wired Broadband. I currently have Spectrum (Charter, formally Time Warner Cable) at $35 a month - though that's a TWC rate that will likely go away next year and my cost will increase to around $60 a month.

      DSL in my area is about 4Mbps for around $40 a month on lines that Verizon wants to get rid of ASAP. Satellite has slow speeds, low caps, and high cost. As for wireless, I use about 500GB a month - mostly in video streaming. Verizon's Unlimited plan would throttle me after 22GB. They have a "data only plan", but that runs about $700 for 100GB of data.

      The person I was talking with honestly thought $700 a month was competition for $60 a month. While, technically these are "options", nobody with my usage requirements (video streaming) would take these. This leaves Spectrum as my one and only choice and they know it.

      --
      My sci-fi novel, Ghost Thief, is now available from Amazon.com.
    11. Re:Make America Great Again by Jason+Levine · · Score: 4, Insightful

      The thing is, I'd be all for "let the markets fix it" if the ISP market actually had competition. If I could choose between 12 different comparable ISPs, I could easily vote with my wallet. When I only have one option, though, voting with my wallet doesn't work. The ISP market is broken and this means "let the markets fix it" won't do anything. Government regulations might not fix the market, but they can stem abuses in the short term and possibly even lay the groundwork for competition to sprout up in the longer term.

      --
      My sci-fi novel, Ghost Thief, is now available from Amazon.com.
    12. Re:Make America Great Again by stealth_finger · · Score: 2

      Ummm living there but here you go if you want.

      https://www.broadbandchoices.c...

      It's much the same picture on the mainland. How does it compare to the US?

      --
      Wanna buy a shirt?
      https://www.redbubble.com/people/stealthfinger/shop?asc=u
  2. Serving his friends against his constituents by evolutionary · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Trump is very consistent and clear in whom he serves and it's not the working class. Once again, making money for his friends at the expense of us all. Wonder what's next in his mad run to basically allow infinite inflation of essential services. (And yes, the Internet is basically an essential service, like electricity: you can "live" without it, but getting what we consider essential services because a challenge without it)

    --
    "Imagination is more important than knowledge" - Einstein
    1. Re:Serving his friends against his constituents by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      It never ceases to amaze me how Republicans can convince people to vote against their own best interests. At this point I'm inclined to say fuck it. The only way they'll learn is to let this run its course. Cut the internet access at schools and let the poor people experience offline life, then casually point out why it is like it is.

    2. Re:Serving his friends against his constituents by zerocommazero · · Score: 2

      You're funny if you think Trump is working for middle America and not his rich buddies. Who do you think goes to Trump hotels, golf courses and country clubs? He's made tons of money servicing the rich. Why do do you think that would change when he became President? Because when it really comes down to it, it's the "haves" vs. the "have-nots" in this world. You see a man who promised to "drain the swamp" of corrupt politicians. I see a man taking out those corrupt politicians and replacing them with members of the business community that those corrupt politicians were working for. He's basically just cutting out the middleman.

    3. Re:Serving his friends against his constituents by Howitzer86 · · Score: 2

      Is it objectively in inner-city blacks' "best interests" to keep voting Democrat and remain mired in poverty for generation after generation?

      Do you really think ideology is the solution to everyone's problem? Do you believe your enemy's ideology is itself the cause of everyone's suffering?

      While we're sitting here arguing about liberals and conservatives, Democrats and Republicans are either ignoring us or outright raping us. They give us the minimum amount of attention, then they directly target us with punitive laws and regulations for their own personal enrichment.

      Going more extreme, and demanding a unified front of all Republicans or all Democrats... will only get you more of the same. Black people voting solid Republican instead of solid Democrat won't help them, just like how a state voting Republican all the time hasn't helped them solve their own perpetual issues.

      If everyone voted Republican (or Democrat) 100% of the time, we'd still be fucked. That's because we have fundamental cultural and political problems that prevent us from working with and responding productively to objective data. Everything is about appearances and personal gain. "How will this look if I do X". "How will this affect my reelection campaign?" "Will Evil Corp support me next time around if I do Y?" Next thing you know, you're an ineffectual politician good at only lining your own pockets and your people continue to suffer.

  3. misleading information by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

    In our area, the broadband providers are required to provide internet access to schools (both public and private) and libraries for FREE as part of the agreements with the municipality. Sounds like the other municipalities need to do a better job of negotiating.

  4. Internet is not a school priority... by __aaclcg7560 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Most schools give lip service to spending money on reducing class sizes and getting Internet access. But when it comes to replacing the football field, the money can always be found for new football fields. When my parents retired to Sacramento in the mid-1990's, my father drove me around the county. He pointed out all the schools that didn't have money to reduce class sizes (the Internet was still "new" back then) but had the money to build a new football field. If one school was replacing their football field, all the schools had to replace their football field. Can't have schools lagging in important priorities.

    1. Re:Internet is not a school priority... by __aaclcg7560 · · Score: 2

      Uhh...this is known as an INFORMATION age for a reason. The best expanding jobs are in the information technology field. Plus information sharing and collaboration are primarily done through the Internet.

      I heard that sales pitch back in the early 1980's when Apple ][ came into the middle school I attended. That's when I found out I came from a "poor" family because we couldn't afford a $2,500 Apple ][ (computer, two floppy drives and monochrome monitor). The funny thing is that not owning an Apple ][ didn't prevent me from pursuing a technology career.

      Saying that people can always find money from somewhere [...]

      Football existed before the INFORMATION age. Given a choice between a new computer lab and a new football field, most communities will want a new football field.

    2. Re:Internet is not a school priority... by __aaclcg7560 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      If you can make an investment of $1 million today that will bring in $300k of "profit" every year for the next 15 years, do you make that investment?

      Nope. The purpose of education is to educate the next generation. Not to make a short-sighted profit because short-sighted politicians refused to fund schools adequately.

  5. Re:IF IF IF by Sassinak · · Score: 4, Informative

    Actually.. the markets work when there is sufficient competition to drive down costs... But basically as we continue to consolidate... (in most cases, there is only ONE provider of service in a given area), there is ZERO competition (or zero meaningful competition). And in today's tech landscape, its not like internet is a "toy" that can be easily dismissed unlike say "cable TV" in which there are over the air options (for now). Basically the landscape is coming back to the old "ma bell" days of "this is the price, and suck it because where else will you go"?

    --
    God made the Idiot for practice, and then He made the School Board -- Mark Twain Look for http://Thebar.steelbeachca
  6. Price caps cause market distortions. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

    President Trump is right to reevaluate, and clean up where necessary, regulation that has caused disruptions to economic markets.

    It's well known at this point that price caps cause market distortions, which directly lead to a non-optimal allocation of resources.

    When I hear about things like "high-poverty districts", these are usually formed because of price caps (on the price of rent) or some other market-distorting regulation that has prevented the investment that would otherwise take place from taking place in these areas.

    Let's take rent control as a simple example. Imposing these distortions removes the incentive for landlords to maintain and improve their properties. When this happens, the wealthier people eventually move away to better properties, leaving only the impoverished who can't move. They often can't, or don't, pay rent, which again hurts the landlords. The landlords who do remain will become slumlords. Others will just abandon their properties, or worse, destroy them to collect at least some insurance reimbursement. The end result is that "high-poverty districts" form, and stay like that until the economic distortion that caused them to be formed is removed.

    Another example is minimum wage floors. These make it prohibitive for businesses to start, and make it harder for existing businesses to continue remaining viable. These also help create "high-poverty districts", because there are fewer jobs than there naturally would be if labor didn't need to be paid artificially high wages.

    Given how we universally see price caps and wage floors causing severe and disruptive economic distortions everywhere else, there's no reason to expect broadband Internet to be any different. Price caps there are no doubt leading to all sorts of market inefficiencies, and these can't be cleared up overnight. The pain being felt in the short term would be thanks to imposing these caps in the first place, and causing the economic distortions that now have to be undone.

    1. Re:Price caps cause market distortions. by parkinglot777 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Let's take rent control as a simple example. Imposing these distortions removes the incentive for landlords to maintain and improve their properties. When this happens, the wealthier people eventually move away to better properties, leaving only the impoverished who can't move. They often can't, or don't, pay rent, which again hurts the landlords. The landlords who do remain will become slumlords. Others will just abandon their properties, or worse, destroy them to collect at least some insurance reimbursement. The end result is that "high-poverty districts" form, and stay like that until the economic distortion that caused them to be formed is removed.

      However, your example does not apply to the issue because it is too broad with lots of competitors. Most areas in the U.S. only have ONE broad band provider in each area. Then the provider would do whatever it can to get itself to be the ONLY one in the area; thus, there is NO competition. Allowing no price cap in this case actually opens a can of worm. The no-limit cap could work if and only if there is a competition.

    2. Re:Price caps cause market distortions. by Sarten-X · · Score: 4, Insightful

      You know... you make a coherent enough argument that I don't actually think you're trolling. Unfortunately, it's a weak argument.

      Let's take rent control as a simple example. Imposing these distortions removes the incentive for landlords to maintain and improve their properties. When this happens, the wealthier people eventually move away to better properties, leaving only the impoverished who can't move.

      That's half of the problem, but what about the alternative? If rent prices rise, the impoverished still can't move to more affordable places (who also would be removing rent control, and thus becoming less affordable every year). Instead, they get evicted and become homeless, in the process usually losing most investments (furniture, clothes, and other personal items) they've managed to accumulate. Once homeless, they are extremely vulnerable, and crime against the homeless typically runs rampant. The end result is that your low-income community has turned into a high-rent development that looks shiny, but sits vacant because of the crime and housing problem... and in turn, the landlords still don't get paid.

      Another example is minimum wage floors. These make it prohibitive for businesses to start, and make it harder for existing businesses to continue remaining viable.

      What makes starting a business such a special event that it requires employees to live in poverty? If your business model is so bad and your business so unsuccessful that you have to underpay your workforce, perhaps you shouldn't be starting a business. I know it's the Great American Dream to own a business, but perhaps we should ensure nobody else gets screwed over in the process?

      --
      You do not have a moral or legal right to do absolutely anything you want.
    3. Re:Price caps cause market distortions. by es330td · · Score: 2, Insightful

      What makes starting a business such a special event that it requires employees to live in poverty? If your business model is so bad and your business so unsuccessful that you have to underpay your workforce, perhaps you shouldn't be starting a business. I know it's the Great American Dream to own a business, but perhaps we should ensure nobody else gets screwed over in the process?

      Please define "underpay." A worker is worth less than the value he or she creates, period. If the work a person does only generates $5.00 an hour in value, are you making the case that the worker should be paid more anyway? How long do expect that employer to continue employing that worker when the revenue generated doesn't cover said employee's cost? Is it okay to "screw over" the employer by making that person pay more to the employee than he/she generates in profit?

    4. Re:Price caps cause market distortions. by Jason+Levine · · Score: 4, Insightful

      On the flip side, if you remove minimum wage, what's to stop an employer from paying nearly nothing for work that generates the employer more money? If an employee generates $25 an hour in value and the employer pays $0.50 an hour, what would protect the worker? Before you say "they can just change jobs", recognize that you could have an industry "race to the bottom" with salaries. The ones that pay less might make more profits and can gobble up (or force out of business) the ones that pay more.

      To give an example, my son recently went to a local museum where he learned about the NYC garment district around the early 1900's. There was no minimum wage or safety regulations so people were worked 15 hours (6am - 9pm) for $3 a week. (That's about $1 an hour in today's money.) If people didn't want to work those hours or asked for more money, they were fired and people who would accept the hours/pay were hired. Every employer in the area paid about the same, so you couldn't just go to another employer. (The lack of safety regulations caused a fire that killed 146 workers.)

      Minimum wage laws can help to keep employers from forcing workers to work long hours for little to no pay. They can help keep employees from falling below the poverty line or from having to work three jobs just to make ends meet. They might not be perfect, but doing away with the minimum wage entirely would be disastrous.

      --
      My sci-fi novel, Ghost Thief, is now available from Amazon.com.
    5. Re:Price caps cause market distortions. by zerocommazero · · Score: 2

      New providers?! You've certainly haven't paid attention to all of those laws that ISP lobbyists have been working for in local government to stifle any new competition. They've done their best to block newcomers and have sliced up the pie enough to stay out of each others way. Now instead of growth, they just increase their current prices. This has been their plan for the past few decades. If you think more of the same will change things then you really need to educate yourself.

    6. Re:Price caps cause market distortions. by Ayanami_R · · Score: 2

      "The end result is that your low-income community has turned into a high-rent development that looks shiny, but sits vacant because of the crime and housing problem... and in turn, the landlords still don't get paid."

      Midtown Miami summed up perfectly. Want to see this in action, go there.

      --
      "Science is the power of man"
    7. Re:Price caps cause market distortions. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Except Internet distribution is far closer to water or power distribution... it needs physical access to every home, use of public right of ways, and society is best serviced when there are not multiple sets of identical infrastructures competing. This is why we standardized train track sizes, roads sizes, etc. to force one set of universally usable infrastructure. In places where there is one set of infrastructure we either fund it with taxes or regulate the monopoly which maintains it.

      If you want competition in this market to replace the regulation then you need to force the companies who maintain the infrastructure out of the retail market. We have competing package delivery services because they share the same roadways and they pay taxes to maintain them. This is the market government creates by maintaining the infrastructure; if FedEx maintained the roads, UPS would be priced out f the market. If you want Internet to be competitive you must first remove the infrastructure control that the existing incumbents have or they will inherently always win against any future competition.

    8. Re:Price caps cause market distortions. by LeftCoastThinker · · Score: 2, Insightful

      That was one of the reasons that Americans hated fresh off the boat immigrants in the early 1900s (Irish need not apply and all the rest). Americans knew (unlike most people today) that fresh immigrants would work for less and drive down wages and were also creating a glut in the labor market. From your example, employers can only "race to the bottom" when there is a glut in labor force. If paying too low a wage or working too long hours causes you to lose employees that you cannot find replacements for, you go to extra lengths to avoid losing those employees (better pay, better hours etc.). For 75 years since then, we had immigration laws that capped legal immigration (its about 1M per year these days, far more than any other country, but not too much for us to absorb). This kept us from developing a glut of low skill workers. However, big business (who wants cheap labor) and the unions (who want more members) and the Democrats (who want ignorant voters) have all been colluding for the past 40 years to import ignorant, low skilled workers from the third world illegally and then try to legalize them. In the 1980s, the voters fell for the canard that legalizing the illegals then would fix the problem and the government would get strict on illegal immigration, but it didn't happen. The corporations got an infusion of cheap labor, and the state of California has never voted Republican in any presidential race since. Obama was selling this same crap again, but a lot of voters are fed up with it and voted for putting the American worker first in this last election. They do not want another 12 million illegals to be made citizens (along with 24M of their families, which is what some of the Dims proposed), they want them out so their wages can go up and their vote will not be diluted by ignorants from the third world who vote only for the person offering them the most free stuff and have no knowledge or respect for American values or culture...

      --
      If you disagree, please post your argument. (-1, Overrated) isn't your personal censorship tool for views you don't like
    9. Re:Price caps cause market distortions. by Sarten-X · · Score: 2

      Please define "underpay."

      Let's go with a nice capitalist version: A worker is underpaid when his or her regular expenses are higher than what they make in net income during the same average period. Note that the definition isn't a particular dollar amount, but rather depends heavily on one's expenses, which in turn are defined mostly by societal and local norms. An intended side effect of this definition is that someone with high expenses can still be underpaid if those expenses aren't covered.

      A worker is worth less than the value he or she creates, period.

      A worker is a human life whose value is independent of what they are able to produce, period.

      If the work a person does only generates $5.00 an hour in value, are you making the case that the worker should be paid more anyway?

      No.

      How long do [you] expect that employer to continue employing that worker when the revenue generated doesn't cover said employee's cost?

      No time at all.

      Is it okay to "screw over" the employer by making that person pay more to the employee than he/she generates in profit?

      No.

      If the worker's output is not profitable for the company, the business should raise its prices so it can be profitable while still supporting its workers for their time. If the market does not support such prices, the business model should not be considered viable.

      Rather than say "this worker produces $5/hour of output", let's phrase it as "this worker produces output for which the market now pays $5/hour". That leaves open the options to increase the rate the market will pay (marketing), increase the worker's output (automation), or to accept that the business as it exists now is not viable (reorganization). In the latter case, it may be as simple as firing the worker and hiring one who can produce more, or it may involve restructuring the whole company to produce a different product, for which the market will pay more.

      I have yet to see an argument for why "business" is a good reason to lock people into a job that doesn't cover their expenses. Bearing in mind that changing jobs is an expense in itself (for time spent applying, interviewing, a clean suit, etc.), I fail to see how it is beneficial to society to essentially enslave people so an entrepreneur can pitch a product to a market that won't sustain it.

      --
      You do not have a moral or legal right to do absolutely anything you want.
    10. Re:Price caps cause market distortions. by Sarten-X · · Score: 2

      As a business owner I could not possibly care less how much your life decisions cost you. My only concern is whether the cost of employing a person is justified by the value they will provide, either now or eventually.

      I'm not saying that as a business owner you should do otherwise. I am, however, suggesting that if your business model doesn't support everyone involved, it would be reasonable for such a grossly exploitative business plan to be forbidden by law. I'm a capitalist, not a libertarian.

      Is it not obvious I am talking about a worker's output and not their value as a human being?

      No, it is not obvious, and in discussions about minimum wage laws, it rarely is.

      Please take note of all the restaurants in California that have closed in the last few months that found out what happened when they tried to raise prices to accommodate the increased minimum wage.

      Perhaps, then, their business was not actually sustainable, and it's right for them to close. Why is a business closing such a horrible thing, but an employee starving isn't? There is an argument that the employee now doesn't even have their minimal income, but they do now have time to find a higher-paying job or relocate.

      See above.

      I'm not sure exactly what I'm supposed to see. You haven't argued against marketing at all. If, for example, a restaurant can't afford to pay their wait staff living wages, then why is it unreasonable to expect the restaurant owner to start an ad campaign promoting their "premium" sandwiches that conveniently carry a 600% profit margin, rather than their cheaper items at a 10% profit?

      How about the machines that replace workers altogether so their wage goes to the true minimum wage of zero?

      Ah, yes... The weavers and buggy-whip makers will be destitute. Historically, though, this argument has never held true. Rather, new technology has brought an increase in jobs, as the technology opens markets making previously-unsustainable businesses profitable. In time, advances in food-handling technology might very well make those California restaurants viable again.

      Who says they are locked in? Right to work goes both ways.

      In theory, yes, but the reality is that changing jobs is expensive (as I mentioned earlier in the thread), and it's very common for low-earning employees to find themselves in a situation where they can't afford to get a better job. The first major expense is time. It takes time to prepare a resume, apply, and interview. If someone is already working all of their available hours just to meet expenses, they can't take the time out to find a better-paying job. There are also financial expenses in job-hunting. There are plenty of emotional appeals involving giving a homeless person a haircut and a suit, and seeing them get a good-paying job... but there aren't enough suit giveaways for everyone. If an employee is barely (or not) meeting expenses, finding the money to get a suit, pay a babysitter, or even take a bus or taxi to an interview can be a significant hardship.

      As social services exist today, there is some assistance available for these difficulties, but they often don't apply if you quit your job, no matter how bad it was.

      Whoever said society is supposed to benefit from anything a business owner does?

      Nobody. Society is supposed to benefit from its laws, which is how this whole conversation started. My complaint is that whenever there is such a conversation, somebody (the AC first, then you) always brings up the argument that minimum wages stop new businesses and raise costs on existing businesses. The unspoken assumption is that it's good to have new businesses start and for existing businesses to make more money, but there's never any evidence of that.

      --
      You do not have a moral or legal right to do absolutely anything you want.
  7. I'm sure we can come to an arrangement... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

    School: We can't afford the higher prices for internet access.

    Verizon/Comcast: What if we keep the old price and Abraham Lincoln High becomes Abraham Lincoln High (sponsored by Verizon/Comcast)? And the gym is now called the Verizon/Comcast Center. And if you could include our company in your math problems, that would be great.

    School: That's a little much, isn't it?

    Verizon/Comcast: You could always go without internet.

    School: Shit.

  8. Re:Stupid Anti-TRUMP FUD by Sassinak · · Score: 5, Insightful

    its going up by a 25%, not a quarter.

    Example (I can't speak for all schools).. but in NY, a medium sized HS pays approx. 210K annually for Internet access and support. (based on today's rates.. that number should be, based on market rate, closer to 300-350K). (smaller schools will pay less (depending on region and bandwidth), and larger schools pay more.).

    210,000 x 25% = 262,500 (or 52K more).. Now in the grand scheme of things... that may not SOUND like a lot, but 52K on a small (and increasingly smaller) budget means schools have some very hard choices.. (drop it in favour of other programs which may make it less effective for today's student, etc...). And keep in mind, with no cap, prices CAN go as high as they want (of course there is a point of you "kill the host").. but making them bleed to death is not going to benefit anyone either (but remember, they don't like public schools.. so none of this is really surprising)..

    Put in charge of education, someone that wants to see public education gone.
    Deprive it of federal funds
    Use the FCC to remove pricing caps which allow for more expense (notice, available funds have gone down).
    Use the decline in quality as "proof" of why public schools should be abandoned..
    Rinse and repeat until the problem goes away on its own.. or parents (en mass) vote to eliminate it.

    --
    God made the Idiot for practice, and then He made the School Board -- Mark Twain Look for http://Thebar.steelbeachca
  9. To the Coal Mines by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

    Kids don't need internet. They will have great new jobs working in the revived coal mines.

  10. Re:TRUMP! TRUMP! TRUMP! by Gr8Apes · · Score: 2

    Hmm. I sometimes wonder. Nobody I know admits to voting for him. ...I wonder what happened?

    Reality.

    --
    The cesspool just got a check and balance.
  11. Very confusing article by Pollux · · Score: 5, Insightful

    As a technology director for a public K-12 school, I'm very concerned about what I'm reading in the headline. But the "article" is an extremely biased report, citing just as equally biased an article, and neither article really gives me a clue as to what's going on here.

    So, let's start at the source: Here is the actual FCC draft order specific to this change. Now, in the course of working on and completing E-Rate filings with the USAC to receive reimbursement for internet and network services for our school district, I've read a few 60-70 page FCC reports before. They're not fun, but they're necessary. That being said, I'm about 20 pages in, and already I'm disturbed. Here's why:

    FCC reports that I've read in the past are boring, dry reads, but at least they're factual and unbiased. Not so with this one. Three sentences in, and we get this: "The FCC has historically subjected the provision of business data services by incumbent local exchange carriers (LECs) to price regulations." And the spin continues..."eases the regulatory burdens"; "spur entry, innovation and competition in the vibrant business data services market"; "competition is robust and vigorous in the markets." And this is still just the first page. The draft order is littered with biased political spin, something that has not been present in my reading of previous FCC draft orders. Because of this, I can't even depend on a government document to give me an unbiased report of the rationale behind the decision, nor can I depend on it to help me determine what the consequences of the decision will be. So, I'll have to create my own... here goes.

    Local Exchange Carrier (LEC) price regulations have been there historically specifically to protect subscribers from LECs that had monopoly or near-monopoly controls over their service regions. Most regions throughout the United States historically were not served by competitive broadband providers. Recently, this has begun to change, where some communities now have competitive service providers come in, giving subscribers a choice. The FCC began to look into this issue back in 2012, before Trump. According to the report, "In December 2012, the Commission released the Data Collection Order FNPRM, to collect data, analyze how competition, “whether actual or potential, affects prices, controlling for all other factors that affect prices,” and “determine what barriers inhibit investment and delay competition, including regulatory barriers." By not controlling pricing, the FCC claims in its report that LECs will no longer be limited entry into a potential market, where capped rates would not allow for a sufficient recovery of the investment necessary to build into a new market area.

    But, here's the flaw in their reasoning: trenching fiber costs a lot of money. A lot. If service provider A already has fiber, service provider B is not going to install fiber if it does not believe that it can earn back their investment in a reasonable amount of time. Even if prices are artificially inflated by provider A, just because they can, if provider B tries to compete and trenches their own fiber network, both A and B know that A can lower its rates to a competitive level to drive out provider B. So, B has no incentive to trench, leaving A with the monopoly.

    The easiest solution: make internet a utility. It's silly to think that it's a smart idea to run multiple fiber lines to a building. (I should know; our school has two of them, and both are dark.) It would be just as silly to have multiple electric taps, or multiple water pipes. But, that's not happening anytime

  12. Might be an unpopular opinion, but .... by King_TJ · · Score: 2, Insightful

    I'm just going to point out that the public schools in poor districts who supposedly "never got Internet yet" OR are supposedly in real need of reduced cost Internet broadband because they can't afford to pay the "going rate" for it are, indeed, PUBLIC schools.

    When you hear about our failing school systems and those pushing to allow tax dollars to fund sending their kids to private alternatives via a voucher system of some sort -- this is a good example of why. Any government run public school that's so bad off, it still hasn't even obtained Internet access is a FAILURE. It doesn't need subsidized broadband to fix it. It need to be completely gutted and overhauled! Tax dollars pay for everything it does already. If that's not sufficient to pay its bills for things like its Internet connection, then it's not really viable.

    1. Re:Might be an unpopular opinion, but .... by JBallz · · Score: 2

      It's hard to claim the school's a failure if they haven't been properly funded in the first place. http://www.reuters.com/article...

  13. Fiber not expensive? by Pollux · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Installing fiber isn't that expensive. I live in a semi-rural area several miles outside of the nearest small town, and 25 miles from the nearest big town, ~50 miles from a city, and ~100 miles from a major metro area. And I have three fiber pedestals near my house, from two different cable companies.

    Nice anecdote. By the way, have you ever trenched fiber for a local telecom? It's not cheap. Two minutes of Google searching gave me this neat data. A couple installs in Florida ran about $10,000 per mile back in 2013. Let's use that as a base cost. Wikipedia then tells me that Google needed 4,000 miles of fiber to setup in San Antonio. So, $40 million dollars, just for one city. And if there already was one or two other providers there offering services, able to price-cut their services to maintain their subscriber base, that would give me even less reason to start breaking ground.

    I've spoken with two different telecoms about their fiber install over the last five years. Both of them say that there's a substantial initial investment, just to develop a core community of subscribers, which then provides the profits necessary to branch out into neighboring territories, especially in rural areas. (Both teleco's said that rural areas don't turn a profit. The urban areas subsidize the costs.)

    No, it is expensive.