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Linux PC Maker System76 Plans To Design And Manufacture Its Own Hardware (liliputing.com)
An anonymous reader quotes Liliputing:
System76 is one of only a handful of PC vendors that exclusively sells computers with Linux-based software. Up until now, that's meant the company has chosen hardware that it could guarantee would work well with custom firmware and the Ubuntu Linux operating system... Starting in 2018 though, you may be able to buy a System76 computer that was designed and built in-house... CAD files for System76 computers will be open source, allowing anyone with the appropriate skills and equipment to build or modify their own cases based on the company's designs.
"We're prototyping with acrylic and moving to metal soon," the company says in a blog post, adding "Our first in-house designed and manufactured desktops will ship next year. Laptops are more complex and will follow much later."
"We're prototyping with acrylic and moving to metal soon," the company says in a blog post, adding "Our first in-house designed and manufactured desktops will ship next year. Laptops are more complex and will follow much later."
I mean, really it's an odd way to sneak an ad onto /.
I mean, I'm so glad these new computer cases will be compatible with Linux. Really. I accidentally bought a case one time that wasn't, couldn't install Linux Mint or any other distro. Worked with Freebsd, but not Linux. Fortunately this will solve this well known problem.
I call your bet. $1000 USD they are still around in six months. Reply with a registered account if you're interested and I'll log in and pm you with details.
Don't hold your breath, why? Designing hardware is hard? Costs? Knowhow? Documentation on the chipsets?
None of this is hard, or an unknown, just hire the right people and contractors (yes, I do this stuff for a living). But I'm curious as to what you were thinking the barrier is...
I RTFA and the source article and I didn't see anything to indicate they would be designing their own electronics. Instead, it seems like they will be building their own computer cases. Frankly, computer cases are far less important than the electronics that reside inside them. Having the CAD files to customize is nice but when their is a backdoor in every new x86 chip, it's kinda like putting on sunblock to protect your skin from the sun as you stare down a civilization ending 10000 meter tsunami wave.
Anons need not reply. Questions end with a question mark.
8 core A53 at 2GHz.... so like Pentium 4 performance?
It will probably be running a custom 3.x kernel with poor mainline support.
I live in Colorado where Sys76 is based. The original post may read like an ad, and my comment may sound like a shill, but check my post history. I'm not shill, I'm a real life Sys76 customer. Sys76 is committed to Linux on well-designed desktop/laptop systems. They have a legit business that focuses on systems designed for HPC and deep learning. I don't think they're super focused on mainstream consumer audience right now. From what I've seen they're really on the prosumer/commercial side of things -- looking to cash in on the deep learning craze, and put capable hardware and OS stack in the hands of interested people who want form-factors that fit into daily life. I'm impressed with their last-gen offerings, and I really look forward to what they'll be doing next.
tl;dr: real company, real product. Keep an eye on this.
Of course designing hardware is hard! Look at Apple! Even with more money in the bank than small countries they are incapable of updating their computers properly every year! Hell, in 2014 they even downgraded the Mac mini! That's how hard it is to design hardware!
#DeleteFacebook
I think they need to manufacture those computers to control the CNCs. Oh wait.
#DeleteFacebook
The thing he linked is a pile of garbage. It's obviously not a desktop, or even really a server. Comparing that to System 76's laptop line, which at the top end includes desktop processors and desktop graphics cards, is obviously stupid. I'm sure it's still a great deal for 80 bucks though, and it's interesting for that reason.
Assuming it exists. Google can't find a "T9SRPro".
Incorrect. Apple's neglect of the Mac is because the iPhone and politics are their priorities now instead of the home computer.
Android isn't Linux aside from kernel code and they are a security trainwreck with their lack of updates and poorly screened app store.
The summary is badly worder.
The thing is :
up until now System76 were selling
- laptops which were simply re-branded laptops from other brand, to which they changed firmware and OS to a more free option
- desktop which were mostly of the shelf beige-boxes
i.e.: they were selling mostly 3rd party hardware
starting from next year, they also want :
- laptop that they make themselves (well, most likely they will be still produced in china. but the idea is that the models are now made by System76. Not Lenovo models with an alternate firmware and OS).
This is interesting because in the end it will enable them to better choose the component inside the laptop for Linux compatibility (avoid too much weird embed controllers)
- desktop designed by themselves too. (that won't be a much big change from the current beige box trend. A motherboard is still a motherboard).
but at least it will help with brand identity and will also help testing their design pipeline on a smaller scale before tackling the laptops.
Their blog post make it clearer (I swear I didn't click TFA's link ! I just clicked last week, when it was on Phoronix. Am I still /.-worthy ? :-D )
Sadly the summery sounds like you need desktop cases specially made compatible with Linux.
"Sufficiently advanced satire is indistinguishable from reality." - [Tips: 1DrYakQDKCQ6y52z6QbnkxHXAocMZJE61o ]
I understand wanting to support the Linux community, but I thought one of the "big advantages" of Linux was that it was cheaper? Yet here, even without the Microsoft tax, it costs a lot more.
The thing is, unlike your custom self-build linux workstation, linux laptops not only come *without the Microsoft tax* (making them a bit cheaper), they also come *without the Bloatware/Crapware bonus* (making them not heavily subsidized by "Punch the Monkey to win big prizes !" and "Let's siphon all your data straight to all the marketeer we an find".
They also don't come with the *integrated by chinese almost-slave labour rebate*.
Laptop tend to be complex and weird (embed controllers, etc.) which requires a tiny bit of adaptation to make them linux-worthy.
- When you buy a big popular brand like Lenovo's Thinkpad Ts, Dell's Lattitude, etc. someone else would have done the debugging already (see ressources like Thinkwiki) and by that time it'll probably be upstream in vanilla kernel and standard distros. So you can probably just pop in a CD of Ubuntu or Linux Mint and it will install flawlessly.
- When you start with less popular manufacturer, you'd be in for a few small surprise : screen not turning on, kernel crashing at boot when trying to enumerate hardware, UEFI-Secure refusing the signature of your bootloader's shim, etc. You could be needed fixes in the firmware and/or workaround patched in the kernel. It might something really simple (just hacking a bit some settings).
But even that "simple" will by done by some who isn't paid in cents per day range.
So it adds up to the costs.
"Sufficiently advanced satire is indistinguishable from reality." - [Tips: 1DrYakQDKCQ6y52z6QbnkxHXAocMZJE61o ]
Make those corners really pointy, just to be on the safe sued^H side.
Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
Chromebook's have had some success because they customize hardware and the OS to work together. This is also why Apple Mac's have worked so well, and why Windows struggles to work well in a vast hardware ecosystem. Linux also has this problem sometimes adapting drivers that only marginally work and regressions are happening far to much from version to version. System 76 has the right idea, but making your own hardware is costly and it also can lock a user into a certain operating system. Kind of working against the open source theme. But certainly making their systems work better would be a plus.
To make a competitive system, the real issue is, is the ability to convince Intel or AMD (or any other processor manufacturer) as well as BIOS/EFI vendors (if you're not going to write your own) that you are serious enough with enough resources to be successful in designing a system and maintain their IP.
Probably the most difficulty somebody who wants to design/build motherboards will have is showing these companies that they have sufficient security systems and protocols in place that the processor and support chip manufacturers (if they're different) can provide you with the datasheets and other documents necessary to design systems without them becoming public knowledge (ie available to their competitors).
Next on the bill is showing that you have the financial resources to make a serious go of it as they will have to provide you a ton of support (the processor manufacturers have to have at least one person dedicated to you full time if you are going to be successful).
Mimetics Inc. Twitter
I know several people who have the equipment to build motherboards at home (in garages and basements). I agree that it's not common and consists of surplus equipment they were able to get cheap and would not be as efficient as a properly equipped manufacturer, but they're out there and they can do the high BGA counts of processor sockets with a high degree of success.
Manufacturing the PCBs isn't the problem; see my other post.
Mimetics Inc. Twitter
Is this for people that confuse the box with what is in the box? A computer case cannot be "Linux hardware".
Most ACs are not even worth the keystrokes to insult them. Be generically insulted by this and ignored otherwise.
I guess we're all systems now.
Making a custom case is not that big a deal. And it doesn't seem they intend to do more than that. And "making" in this context probably means "give the CAD files to a company in China and let them do the dirty work".
A case is not high tech stuff, any schmuck can design a case. The airflow may not be ideal and it may not be the most convenient but it will work.
Considering the size of the company (11-50 employees), I don't consider it a risky endeavor. Designing laptops is their real goal but they prefer to start slow with desktops. A very sensible idea if you ask me.
Dell sells Linux laptops.
Not on all of them, and not in all market.
But still, Dells are so much popular, that even for the few Lattitude that you can directly get with Ubuntu pre-installed, you can just pop your Suse CD in and install a tumbleweed, because of popularity, lots of people would have tester a tweaked what is necessary for the distro to work out of the box.
And the Microsoft tax is a myth. All the demo software they tend to put on pays for windows plus a bit more so Linux laptops can often be a bit more because they are unsubsidised.
Yup. Totally agree with you. That's why I was saying :
linux laptops not only come *without the Microsoft tax* (making them a bit cheaper), they also come *without the Bloatware/Crapware bonus* (making them not heavily subsidized by "Punch the Monkey to win big prizes !" and "Let's siphon all your data straight to all the marketeer we an find".
"Sufficiently advanced satire is indistinguishable from reality." - [Tips: 1DrYakQDKCQ6y52z6QbnkxHXAocMZJE61o ]
There are people that don't want this to happen.
1 - A lot of the hardware documentation that was open 5 years ago has disappered.
2 - If they came out with such a device - you can count on a trip ti FISA court.
Take the Ubuntu phone - it is not really Linux - it is an Android kernel with binary blobs that are there for our protection...
'They' put an end to this about 5 years ago - read about core boot...
Go download it and install it-- nobody is stopping you.