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Chinese, European Space Agencies In Talks To Build a Moon Base (techcrunch.com)
ESA's Pal Hvistendahl has confirmed via Bloomberg that Chinese and European space agencies are talking with one another about plans to build a base on the moon. The discussions "involve working together to build a human-occupied 'moon village' from which both agencies can potentially launch Mars missions, conduct research, and possibly explore commercial mining and tourism projects," reports TechCrunch. From the report: China's upcoming projects in space include a mission to collect samples from the moon via an uncrewed craft by the end of this year, and to also launch an exploratory mission to the far side of the moon next year, with the similar aim of returning samples for study. The ESA's collaboration with China thus far include participating in the study of those returned samples, and potentially sending a European astronaut to the Chinese space station (which is currently unoccupied) at some future date.
There has been a slow, but steadily increasing approach between China and Europe for the last couple of decades, in many ways: trade agreements, Chinese interest in European education and scientific development, even what could be the first, tenuous signs of political alignment. One of the reasons, in my view, is simply that Europe isn't the US - America has for many years employed a very aggressive rhetoric against China, where Europe has been more moderate, and it does seem to have left a lasting impression. On that background, I don't think it is at all surprising that they will build a Moon base together. I think it is great that China shows leadership and determination in this hugely important area; sure, it stings a bit that we in the West aren't in the lead, but I'm sure the Chinese will allow America to take part, when they are ready to commit to it.
Obviously!!! They need to kill the Nazis that have been there since 1945 first.
The US has spent decades keeping China closed out from space. The "International Space Station" is really the "Anyone except China Space Station".
Its possible that this new development may end up turning that on its head -- the US won't work with China in Space, but just as much as China can't join any US-led project, it also means that the US will not be able to join in any Chinese project. If the Europeans and others are joining those projects, the US is going to find themselves out in the cold.
The US has been very dogmatic about that rule, but I wonder how long they're going to be able to hold on it if everyone else is collaborating?
This is true. The US has burned some bridges with it's foreign policy regarding China. But, before we lament what that means for future opportunities, it's worth recalling why; from the outright theft of IP, to humanitarian concerns regarding political prisoners, religious persecution, Tibet, freedom of navigation in the Global Commons that is the South China Sea, and including their tolerance for the North Korean situation. China may become a player in space exploration, that's unavoidable at this point, but that doesn't mean the US should regret the hard lines it's taken over the years.
I won't be happy until the female lunar astronauts start wearing purple wigs!
Ezekiel 23:20
The Moon on the other hand is 2 weeks away.
And yet Apollo made it there in 2 & a bit days!
Well duh! That was 50 years years ago. Traffic is hell these days.
The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
i'm not impressed with Trump, but come on. In less than 100 days he's responsible for NASA not having a vision or funding and not doing manned missions outside of LEO since Apollo? Other countries have goals in space, they've come to the realization that meeting those goals no longer HAS to involve NASA expertise. That's not a situation of Trump's making. I think you can find plenty to pin on him, but not this.
Getting stuff there, i.e. habituate and keeping it supplied, is probably the least difficult part of it. It's a fairly shallow gravity well that puts the costs at not much more (less than twice) that of putting a satellite in Geostationary orbit.
Getting the actual people there (and back) is the costly part. "Stuff" doesn't require four or five levels of fail-safe. "Stuff" doesn't need to take a shit or get sick or argue about politics.
I do see it happening in my lifetime, and I'm pretty fucking old.
I do not see much profit in it however, other than bragging rights.
And Obama declared "been there" with regards to a return to the moon. Instead he chose to give NASA a mandate to get to Mars. Something NASA knew was not feasible given current funding levels. I would prefer a lasting stepping stone on the moon to a publicity stunt on Mars. People climbing Everest have various base camps. You acclimate, you learn, you have a reasonable chance for help. Only an idiot would make a one shot attempt at Everest OR Mars, but man it sure sounds cool when the cameras are rolling.
Twenty year ago the Chinese beating us back to the moon would have seemed like a joke to me. Now I'm hoping they make it. Really we have been squatting on this moon pot for far too long. Time to shit or get off the pot, as my grandmother would say.
I read at +2. If your post doesn't reach that level I will not see or respond to it.
Getting the actual people there (and back) is the costly part. "Stuff" doesn't require four or five levels of fail-safe. "Stuff" doesn't need to take a shit or get sick or argue about politics.
Then the solution seems pretty straightforward: send only "stuff" up there for the first few years.
Once the "stuff" has organized itself (because robots) and is looking pretty good, then send up some human beings, if you still want to. They can walk right into to their prefab moon-hotel.
I don't care if it's 90,000 hectares. That lake was not my doing.
No, Trump is responsible for gutting the current year NASA budget. You are responsible for not understanding the value and necessity of the research done since Apollo.
Gutting the perpetually underfunded NASA budget? I'd see it more as Trump telling congress, "if you're not going to spend the money it takes to do the mission, you get no more money for manned flight".
Anyway, I never said there was no value post Apollo from NASA, only that manned flight has been stagnant in LEO since the mid 1970s. Most people would say that the advances and research done since then should make travel beyond LEO MORE attainable. We should be able to go back to the moon at lower cost in real dollars than it cost in 1968. Sadly, that's not the case. While we may have all kinds of amazing advances, NASA seems to feel that the only way to put men in space is still the cost is no object approach. I would suggest that in the last 3 decades, NASA has been the beneficiary of advances in materials and technology more often than it has been the catalyst.
The cutting edge at NASA is unmanned exploration. Nothing wrong with that, but you can't expect other countries with manned space flight ambitions to just sit idly until the US and NASA get around to doing something again. There's a spirit to the guys in the unmanned programs that has been lost, or killed, on the manned side.