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Debian Developer Imprisoned In Russia Over Alleged Role In Riots (itwire.com)
An anonymous reader writes:
"Dmitry Bogatov, Debian developer and Tor node admin, is still being held in a Moscow jail," tweeted the EFF Saturday. IT Wire reports that the 25-year-old math teacher was arrested earlier this month "on suspicion of organizing riots," and is expected to be held in custody until June 8. "The panel investigating the protests claims Bogatov posted several incitory messages on the sysadmin.ru forum; for example, one claim said he was asking people to bring 'bottles, fabric, gasoline, turpentine, foam plastic' to Red Square, according to a post at Hacker News. The messages were sent in the name of one Airat Bashirov and happened to be transmitted through the Tor node that Bogatov was running. The Hacker News post said Bogatov's lawyer had produced surveillance video footage to show that he was elsewhere at the time when the messages were posted.
"After Dmitry's arrest," reports the Free Bogatov site, "Airat Bashirov continue to post messages. News outlets 'Open Russia' and 'Mediazona' even got a chance to speak with him."
Earlier this month the Debian GNU/Linux project also posted a message of support, noting Dmitry maintains several packages for command line and system tools, and saying their group "honours his good work and strong dedication to Debian and Free Software... we hope he is back as soon as possible to his endeavours... In the meantime, the Debian Project has taken measures to secure its systems by removing Dmitry's keys in the case that they are compromised."
"After Dmitry's arrest," reports the Free Bogatov site, "Airat Bashirov continue to post messages. News outlets 'Open Russia' and 'Mediazona' even got a chance to speak with him."
Earlier this month the Debian GNU/Linux project also posted a message of support, noting Dmitry maintains several packages for command line and system tools, and saying their group "honours his good work and strong dedication to Debian and Free Software... we hope he is back as soon as possible to his endeavours... In the meantime, the Debian Project has taken measures to secure its systems by removing Dmitry's keys in the case that they are compromised."
This. That fact has made my life a living hell. Before systemd, we could look at /var/log/messages to typically see problems, but now systemd just deletes log messages.
It's sad how journalctl just doesn't show most problems.
...and yet, plenty of businesses seem to be using GPL'd code. Congratulations on hanging your argument on a broken premise.
If your lawyer tells you that anything compiled with GCC must become opernsource then you need to fire your lawyers and then cut your own cock off for the betterment of the species because both you and your lawyer are idiots which need to be removed from the gene pool.
In Soviet Russia, systemd...
govno!
Meanwhile the man they're protesting about, Putin, rigs elections, poisons people with polonium, shoots opposition leaders, throws journalists off buildings....
Yeah, no. You only have to make the source code available if you make the binaries available. Further, things produced by a GPL program aren't necessarily GPLed.
Some people encrypt by using rot-13 twice. I prefer the more secure method of using rot-1 a total of twenty six times.
This is not about him or what he may or may not have done. This is about scaring others so that they think twice before hosting a tor node or any other kind of communication outside government control.
1) Yay for pervasive CCTV!
2) A computer nerd that can't figure out how to automate a web post isn't a true computer nerd.
"I don't know, therefore Aliens" Wafflebox1
What good would removing his cock do if he can will produce semen in his balls? You need to jump in a vat of acid since you fail to understand basic reproductive systems and modern advances in artificial insemination!
That part sucks about systemd. If it logged errors, it would be better in every way.
This. That fact has made my life a living hell.
if you spend your life looking at log messages, you don't have a life, you're an expect script that poops
We switched from Debian because of this lack of respect for logging. We need log messages.
Poettering just doesn't get why not saving log messages is bad since he is so young.
This. The unit files are easier to write than SysV shell scripts, bit swallowing log messages just makes it hell to use.
Same here. We need logging to work.
This. Real professionals need syslog so we can't use systemd.
I just don't get why systemd drops logging messages. It's supposed to be better, but all it does is make my life shit.
It is better in every way except logging.
We're currently suffering with systemd. We need to see log messages. I don't understand their decision to not fix this problem.
messages, but damn Debian for switching to systemd that swallows log messages and just makes our life hell.
This. I just don't get why Poettering doesn't fix that problem since it's the most serious remaining problem with systemd.
Well, logs are important to a sysadmin, and IT, and even most end-users. However, if you're operating a service or website and want it to be squeaky clean, immune to government searching, logs can provide enough information to screw you. Of course, anyone competent would be encrypting the hard disk and likely has a great backup strategy, (also encrypted), coupled with some way to destroy evidence well enough to create plausible deniability... but then we're getting into secops and not just logging..
I agree that systemd doesn't do logging well, but there *is* a use case for no logging.
Poettering just doesn't get why not saving log messages is bad since he is so young.
This. He just doesn't get why logging is important.
Not logging errors just makes my life hell. I don't get why Linart just doesn't understand that.
Which shitty distro are you using? On RHEL, systemd sends messages to syslog by default. You have to go out of your way to stop it fro doing so. There are plenty of issues with systemd, but the troubles most of the rants criticising systemd are either imaginary issues or problems with shitty distros with stupid defaults. This makes it easy for them to say, "Haha none of these idiots have even used system," because you're busy drowning out the people trying to get real issues with systemd addressed (like lack of any kind of privilege separation, and parsing unsanitised local socked input in pid 0 running as root, and not working properly if you need to run services as directory users, and a whole bunch of other shit).
This. We need log messages!
Police do stupid shit all the time. I was arrested the other week for crossing the street and then was charged with a law that restricts crossing the street in between two intersections with traffic lights. Well, guess what, the adjacent street is a stop sign. I didn't break the law for which I was arrested. The reality is they didn't like the fact I was filming an unconstitutional checkpoint. The police weren't authorized to block sidewalks and had other mandates such as being polite and courteous, keeping motor vehicle operators in their vehicle, limiting the stops to no more than two minutes, etc. Well, they were opening peoples doors, they were blocking sidewalks, they were NOT being polite and courteous at all, etc. All these things are contempt of court. They can't just put up a random checkpoint. Even within what was clearly unconstitutional supreme court ruling they must follow a plan when doing checkpoints in New Hampshire that is signed off by a superior court judge. They got the plan signed off- but they weren't following it.
We still use it, bit it's dropping of log messages has ruined my life. I need log messages in order to work.
In his real name - but on a TOR network. No one is that stupid crazy in that environment. Clearly a setup by someone else. Was Trump also posting messages?
Same here. A better system wouldn't drop log messages.
This. Real sysadmins need logs.
> swallows log messages
That part just makes systemd just a living hell to use. We need log messages. For example, last week we had a problem with NTP since our Windows servers were off by nine hours so it caused NTP to crash on our Linux servers. Typically, we never have any problems with them, but Microsoft caused this NTP problem. systemd didn't log the message when ntp quit. On our CentOS 6 servers that don't use systemd. the problem was obvious.
Not saving logs makes life very difficult.
Real professionals need logs, so you are correct.
This is the right answer. However, the "legal problem" for FOSS he talks about still persists (even it it's probably a made-up story). Because of this misunderstanding, Linux, FOSS has lost mind-share and goodwill. He and his team could have been proponents of free software, but instead they're now disappointed and muttering about some GPL license clause they don't understand the first thing about.
The solution is better information and education. However, FOSS has a long way to go here. Even within the community, there's ludicrous claims as to what the various licenses means, and what developers and users are entitled to. Richard Stallman's "Free Software, Free Society" is probably some of the better layman's texts on the topic. In addition to actually reading the license in question itself - they are usually no more than 10 pages of rather clear language.
Various FOSS components and systems have reached tremendous market share over the last 15 years. However, when it comes to this "legal problem", we're still in the early 90s as far as developer understanding and opinion goes.
debian gang goes to prison
I knew the war over Debian switching to Systemd was intense but I had no idea it had gone this far! ;)
Anons need not reply. Questions end with a question mark.
We need to be able to see log messages.
You are correct. We need to be able to see log messages.
Logging messages are important to professionals.
This. Sad to see Debian decide to drop logging messages.
Real professionals need logs, so you are correct.
This. I just don't get why Debian and Red Hat both went with a system that drops most log messages. We need to see logs in order to manage our servers.
This. Dropping log messages has made things difficult for us.
"but when HE posts messages"???
Why would he post messages from the exit node he runs, that's dumb it makes no sense. It's to use TOR is a way that bypasses TOR. (!)
Likewise the authorities know its not him, its the TOR exit node. So the arrest is clearly timed.
There's anti Putin protests in St Petersburg, lots of people are being arrested, they want Putin to step down and stop rigging elections. Opponents are being killed, poisoned, the press is suppressed. This is clearly related to the insecurity Putin feels at the moment.
In Jail?
Hell, he should have his testicles placed in a vise and his hair set on fire.
I agree. Log messages are important to anyone that has every managed a server.
At least the fanboys are finally admitting the latter. There have been real implementation annoyances at times.
I know, don't feed the trolls. But still.
It was brought to our attention that Linux is copyrighted under something called the GPL, or the Gnu Protective License.
It is the GNU General Public License. If you can't get the name of the license right, what makes you think you ought to comment on it?
Part of this license states that any changes to the kernel are to be made freely available.
There is this little clause about whom the source should be made available to, namely the users of the software.If said software is sold, then the source code must be made available to the customers. If it is only used internally, then there is no need to publish it. But if you do not publish it, then you will have to reapply your patches (and modify them if the kernel internals change) whenever you want to use a newer kernel.
Furthermore, after reviewing this GPL our lawyers advised us that any products compiled with GPL'ed tools - such as gcc - would also have to its source code released.
This is so untrue, that your only remedy it to sack your lawyer for gross incompetence.
Are you using Fedora or something? Debian configured systemd to leave /var/log/messages working just the way it always has.
But why are you talking to yourself?
If you look at forum screenshots there's more than "bring gasoline" in the incriminating messages. There're also calls to attack and burn down the police surveilence center, and to "destroy" (physically) the opponents.
This is a 'concern troll' designed to push a conversation off course. Most likely a Russian troll working out of St Petersburg.
You can still get rid of systemd in Debian, but it seems to be getting harder to do so and you lose more and more core functionality. Now it seems you lose Python3 apt integration.
It seems to me that "choice" has left Debian a while ago, and the authoritarians in control are hard at work to remove what is left of it.
Most ACs are not even worth the keystrokes to insult them. Be generically insulted by this and ignored otherwise.
Sounds like someone is still cranky that their psychotic leader killed himself because he couldn't handle meany-weenie coppers.
There is a difference between things that are better and things that are advertised as "better" using massive propaganda. I just had to remove the systemd-fail from a laptop to get a serial adapter working again. This thing has no advantages in most situations but compromises stability, usability, simplicity and security. Really a shining example of how not to do it.
What astonishes me though is that two morons with known bad personalities and a bad track-record with their software can compromise most of the Linux community. I would have expected it to be more resilient, but apparently not.
Most ACs are not even worth the keystrokes to insult them. Be generically insulted by this and ignored otherwise.
One of the reasons why my employer has absolutely banned systemd. The risk it brings is just far to high, with no perceptible gain to compensate.
Most ACs are not even worth the keystrokes to insult them. Be generically insulted by this and ignored otherwise.
Wrong type of logs.
Which shitty distro are you using? On RHEL, systemd sends messages to syslog by default.
That's assuming that functionality is up and running. It makes troubleshooting the early boot process more difficult.
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
Because he can't play with his system d. She wanted the d but he didn't have one to give her.
> You can still get rid of systemd in Debian
No problems with that here, definitely
> Now it seems you lose Python3 apt integration.
Care to expound on that? Perhaps it's fixable.
And since when was Python3 "core functionality"? (yah, pretty transparent attempt at derailing an already-derailed discussion. Folks, that was intended to be *funny*, OK?).
This was about Dmitry, not about systemd. I guess the systemd slant was injected by the Russian propaganda machine (yah, those exist).
Wow such lack of love for humanity. Here we have a guy imprisdoned for trying to make the world better and speaking out on what he thought was an injustice. Who probably very scared and currently powerless.
As you from your comfortable location applauding this because he happened to make a technical decision to use a different software set with different features tradeoffs which you have the option to not use at all or just spend a little time to learn better and perhaps change the default configuration.
What's next? Hanging the engineers who decided to take the headphone jack from the iPhone. Or the person who made the final decision to make their distribution start Linux in xwindows by default?
If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
Not in Debian. It logs to both the journal *and* syslog by default out-of-the-box.
Useless troll.
Huh? It should be injecting the logs back into the kernel "dmesg" ring buffer before everything is "up", and then dumping that crap all to disk (journal) and syslog once it can.
It should actually work a lot better (if you install plymouth at least -- that thing does a lot more than implement useless luser-mode boot logos) than the old booltlogd we had in Debian, which *I know for a fact* to be broken since wheezy, maybe before.
What it does not do out-of-the-box in Debian is to have a persistent journal, because systemd used to be really bad at it (lennartware, after all), and because everything goes to syslog already (which *IS* persistent). But even that is trivial to change, and it actually works just fine -- been there, done that, had a lot of journals "cycled" due to unsafe shutdown, nothing misbehaved. And the journals had as much data as the syslogs, so far it has not even been proved to be worse at data retention when crashing.
Now, ensuring anything that dies will get logged -- need to check what that complain about ntpd dying silently is about, it is not like sysvinit logged anything: it started ntpd in daemon mode and forgot about it. systemd ought to be sending to journal/syslog anything ntpd would send to the syslog, if it is not it is a bug that has to be fixed.
It doesn't actually "drop" them, it just doesn't send them to the syslogs by default. You're supposed to use journalctl to read them! The logging behavior of systemd is a configuration option
All systemd logging can be forwarded to syslog in plain text format, standard feature enabled by a single edit in: /etc/systemd/journald.conf
It can also be enabled on a per boot basis with a simple addition to the kernel boot parameters
ForwardToSyslog=, ForwardToKMsg=, ForwardToConsole=, ForwardToWall=
Control whether log messages received by the journal daemon shall
be forwarded to a traditional syslog daemon, to the kernel log
buffer (kmsg), to the system console, or sent as wall messages to
all logged-in users. These options take boolean arguments. If
forwarding to syslog is enabled but nothing reads messages from the
socket, forwarding to syslog has no effect. By default, only
forwarding to wall is enabled. These settings may be overridden at
boot time with the kernel command line options
"systemd.journald.forward_to_syslog=",
"systemd.journald.forward_to_kmsg=",
"systemd.journald.forward_to_console=", and
"systemd.journald.forward_to_wall=". When forwarding to the
console, the TTY to log to can be changed with TTYPath=, described
below.
What's next? Hanging the engineers who decided to take the headphone jack from the iPhone. Or the person who made the final decision to make their distribution start Linux in xwindows by default?
Those are excellent ideas. Where can I subscribe to your newsletter?
Nothing stops you from using BSD licensed code.
YHBT. HTH. HAND,ADFT.
Yeah. My heart goes out to those poor violent criminals.
Bloods vs Crips animosity is nothing compared to init vs systemd.
Have gnu, will travel.
> It doesn't actually "drop" them, it just doesn't send them to the syslogs by default.
Until the log is damaged. You can change the behavior to have it work properly (kind of). But, by default, it's broken.
Apt is "core functionality". In the end, I do not care too much but this shows a trend.
As to Dmitry, he obviously gets misused to threaten people. Even the Russian authorities know than a Tor exit-node operator has no control over what is done over it.
Most ACs are not even worth the keystrokes to insult them. Be generically insulted by this and ignored otherwise.
He should have protested in Berkeley, Kalifornia where the crazies are allowed to roam the streets looting, burning, hurting people, protesting.... ... or is that Oakland?
Nah. Same thing, same place. They are "just down the street" from each other!!
Although, that does add another step to get to the messages, which was one of the core complaints against systemd. That you should require a binary to read a log file on a failing system is a horrendously stupid mistake that even Microsoft is getting better at (using XML for log storage, and planned support for native syslog format)
I work with systemd frequently enough to appreciate some of the things that it makes easier (dependency checking for services) but I think overall it has been a net loss expressed in:
1. Opportunity cost - we could have been spending this time on tightening up less brittle start-up services
2. Rework of legacy services and shoehorning them into a new not very backward compatible init system
3. Something with failure conditions that are easy to create and debug. (IE, set a flag for step-wise confirmation, PLAIN TEXT LOGGING BY DEFAULT)
Captcha: broken /. is self-aware)
(Perhaps
"Even the Russian authorities know than a Tor exit-node operator has no control over what is done over it."
On the contrary, everything I've learned about Russia seems to point at them being even more clueless than the rest. Mostly because all they need to know is who the lucky one is to get the government's attention, and they all know that they won't be punished for oppressing people too much, but they will get punished for oppressing them not enough when their superiors need an excuse to thumb them in.