Slashdot Mirror


Carbon Intensity is Falling in Industrial, Electric Power Sectors (arstechnica.com)

Over the last seven years, the electrical power sector has gone from being one of the most carbon-emitting sectors of the American economy per unit of fuel consumed to one of the least carbon-emitting sectors. From a report on ArsTechnica: That's according to new data from the US Energy Information Administration (EIA). Despite the good news, the EIA's numbers show that, since 1975, the carbon emissions of the US transportation sector per unit of fuel used has hardly changed at all. The EIA measured relative emissions across the US economy as "carbon intensity -- an average of the amount of carbon any sector gives off as it consumes different kinds of fuel. The measurements were applied to five sectors of the US economy: transportation, commercial, residential, electric, and industrial.

20 of 114 comments (clear)

  1. What a retarded measure by MightyYar · · Score: 2, Insightful

    "Per unit of fuel used"

    What exactly is the expected result when the fuel is the same and the efficiency of the heat engine is already at or near the practical limit? As long as the fuel used is gasoline or diesel, there will be a practical limit to how far this can go. If they had picked 1930 as their arbitrary date they would get different results. If we all switched our cars to CNG, we'd have much higher "intensity", if we used coal it would be lower. Not sure what the point is.

    --
    W..w..W - Willy Waterloo washes Warren Wiggins who is washing Waldo Woo.
    1. Re:What a retarded measure by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Informative

      Of course it has fallen. Replacing coal with nat gas generation (which is by far the biggest factor), tends to do that.

    2. Re:What a retarded measure by kamakazi · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Actually, it isn't a retarded measure, you just need to understand what it is sayig. Basically it says that our advances in internal combustion technology have made a negligible difference in the amount of carbon emitted while burning petroleum products, or in application terms, technology woun't make petroleum based ICEs much cleaner.

      In contrast the electrical generation industry has been changing fuels over the same period of time, and has indeed made carbon production improvements.

      The take away is that to make a dent in carbon pollution from cars and trucks they need to burn different fuels, not keep tweaking the long tail of internal combustion efficiency.

      I would be interested in seeing the same sort of measure of the other pollutants out our tailpipes, I think the reductions of evaporative loses and the requirement of catalytic convertors has probably made significant reductions of some other pollutants per unit of fuel used.

      --
      "Proximity to wonder has blunted our perception and appreciation of it" --Tim Hartnell in 'Exploring ARTIFICIAL INTELLI
    3. Re:What a retarded measure by houstonbofh · · Score: 4, Insightful

      "Per unit of fuel used"

      I am still stuck on how they totally ignore that we went from 8 mpg to 40 mpg in that time. I wonder if that reduced emissions at all? Talk about fudging the numbers. Pollution per person per mile has plummeted!

    4. Re:What a retarded measure by whoever57 · · Score: 2

      The point is that society can and is reducing the amount of CO2 emitted by changing the energy sources. Changing from Coal to Natural Gas reduces CO2 emissions. Changing to Wind or Solar reduces emissions even further.

      Getting hung up on the use of the word "fuel" isn't helpful.

      --
      The real "Libtards" are the Libertarians!
    5. Re:What a retarded measure by koreanbabykilla · · Score: 2

      natural gas has methane which is worse than carbon dioxide as a greenhouse gas stupid

      Byproducts of natural gas include carbon dioxide and water vapor. Complete combustion of gas produces a harmless mixture of these two byproducts.

      https://www.google.com/search?...

    6. Re:What a retarded measure by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Basically it says that our advances in internal combustion technology have made a negligible difference in the amount of carbon emitted

      That is because as fuel efficiency has improved, instead of using less fuel, people have bought BIGGER VEHICLES.

      I am waiting for the civilian version of the M1 Abrams.

    7. Re:What a retarded measure by Verdatum · · Score: 2

      It's a measurement of the proportions of the different fuel sources in use. And as you say, there's zero surprise that the numbers stayed constant in transportation from 1975-2005. I think the author didn't fully grasp that. Nearly all vehicles used gas & diesel in the same proportions that entire time, so of course the number will stay constant. Everyone already knew that. The exciting thing is seeing how that number changes from 2005 and into the future, as that is when we saw increased adoption of hybrid & natural gas vehicles. And moving forward is when we'll start to see increased adoption of electric vehicles.

  2. Misleading data by fred6666 · · Score: 3, Interesting

    The only reason why it's falling is because they count renewables as "fuel". So of course per unit of "fuel" consumed (and remember, solar radiation count as "fuel"), they emit less CO2. It doesn't mean the process of CO2 emitting thermal power plants actually improved.

    1. Re:Misleading data by houstonbofh · · Score: 2

      The only reason why it's falling is because they count renewables as "fuel". So of course per unit of "fuel" consumed (and remember, solar radiation count as "fuel"), they emit less CO2. It doesn't mean the process of CO2 emitting thermal power plants actually improved.

      They also base it on fuel used, not production outputs. Going from 8mpg to 40mpg is actually a very big deal. As is car pooling... If you have to fudge the data to make a point, perhaps it is the wrong point.

    2. Re:Misleading data by dj245 · · Score: 2, Informative

      The only reason why it's falling is because they count renewables as "fuel". So of course per unit of "fuel" consumed (and remember, solar radiation count as "fuel"), they emit less CO2. It doesn't mean the process of CO2 emitting thermal power plants actually improved.

      If you look at the source, it seems fairly straightforward that they are simply multiplying the amount of fuel used by the amount of CO2 emitted per BTU of that fuel. That analysis if flawed in several ways, but saying that renewables are affecting this in a large way is not correct. Solar + Wind only produced 22,490 Million Kilowatt-hours in January 2017, or 6.5% of the total electricity produced in January 2017. Hydro and Geothermal production rate hasn't increased significantly in decades, so I will exclude them for now.

      The big driver of this reduced carbon intensity is the shift from coal to natural gas for electricity production. In 2016, coal produced 1,240,089 Million Kilowatt-hours of electricity, down from a high of around 2,000,000 Million Kilowatt-hours in 2005-2007. The last time coal electricity production was this low was in 1985, and it will probably be even lower in 2018.

      Meanwhile, natural gas electricity production was 1,380,293 Million Kilowatt-hours in 2016, the highest ever, and significantly increased from the 291,946 Million Kilowatt-hours produced in 1985. It will probably be even higher in 2018. Natural gas produces less CO2 than coal, so this is the major factor here.

      It is worth noting that nuclear power production in January 2017 was 73,121 Million Kilowatt-hours, or 21.2% of total production. Demand has been basically flat at 4 Billion Giga-watt-hours per year since 2004. Natural gas and renewables are slurping up the slack in coal, but natural gas is a much more dominant factor.

      --
      Even those who arrange and design shrubberies are under considerable economic stress at this period in history.
  3. Re:Thanks to natural gas by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

    No, since the purpose wasn't carbon reduction it was cost; carbon was a side effect.

  4. relax. This is changing rapidly. by WindBourne · · Score: 2

    With the next couple of years, we will see the transportation sector drop in emissions, a great deal.
    Tesla is forcing 1 major car maker to switch (BMW), and the others will be forced to follow suit in about 2-3 years. However, by 2020, about 1/3 to 1/2 of new cars in America will likely be EVs. In addition, car sales in America will have dropped a great deal simply because nobody paying above $25K will want to buy an ICE, while those below 25K, will simply buy the one time expensive now used ICE cars that will be going for less than 10K for a 2-4 year old car.
    Add to that the fact that Burlington Northern is in the process of switching ALL of their engines to nat gas, which they will have done in less than 5 years, will drop 5-6% of America's diesel use. Yup. Diesel useage is already going down, and will go down by about 1% a year. Then as the electric semis jump in from Tesla, that will by 2024, bring diesel down 1-5% a year, depending on how good tesla does.

    --
    I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
  5. Re:Don't worry by WindBourne · · Score: 2

    first off, that is total BS.
    Trump had to have been told that even if coal came back (it will not), that it will NOT bring back jobs. As such, trump and the GOP KNEW they were lying about jobs.
    And I will guess that you know that he was lying as well. After all, coal's death has NOT been due to regulations like you neo-con/tea-baggers claim, but it is one of economics. Nat gas has been cheaper than coal since 2010. MUCH CHEAPER. And it is expected to remain that way, unless trump allows massive exports of LNG, which appears to be the case. Still, wind is much cheaper than coal, and solar is touching below coal. Wind will be cheaper than nat gas within 2 years, while solar will be much cheaper than coal within 2 years.

    All of this could be seen back in the election. So, no, it was NOT about jobs. It was simply about massive numbers of lies from the GOP.

    --
    I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
  6. I'd hope so by argStyopa · · Score: 2

    ...when you consider that wind/solar are getting something like 400x the subsidies per megawatt hour that coal, oil, and ng are receiving.

    --
    -Styopa
  7. What is carbon intensity by XXongo · · Score: 2
    It's not a "retarded" measurement, it just doesn't happen to be a measurement of what you think it should measure.

    Carbon intensity is not efficiency, which is what you seem to be interested in.

    Carbon intensity is, instead, a measure of where the energy comes from: not how efficiently it is used; but, how much of the energy comes from oxidizing carbon instead of from some other source.

    If you divide carbon intensity (carbon per million BTUs of energy) by the efficiency (amount of produce product per million BTUs of energy) you would get a measure of the carbon emitted per unit of product. So the carbon intensity is one factor in the greenhouse emissions, but not the only factor. It's the factor that accounts for the fuel type.

    ... and, no, don't blame me for the silly units of kilograms of carbon per million BTUs; I didn't invent them.

  8. Re:Carbon intensity is about fuel source by XXongo · · Score: 2

    I feel like we are sliding into semantics and grammar. Let's shift direction a bit - being honest, did you learn anything from the article?

    Yes, I learned that several segments of energy use have been slowly shifting from higher carbon-intensive fuels to lower carbon-intensive fuels, but that transportation has not.

  9. No it does not. by Ungrounded+Lightning · · Score: 2

    Actually, it isn't a retarded measure, you just need to understand what it is sayig. Basically it says that our advances in internal combustion technology have made a negligible difference in the amount of carbon emitted while burning petroleum products, or in application terms, technology woun't make petroleum based ICEs much cleaner.

    No it does not say that AT ALL.

    What it says is that internal combustion engines don't sequester the carbon from the fuel. Essentially every bit of it is burned to carbon dioxide and emitted into the atmosphere.

    The transportation sector has made LOTS of progress with respect to emitting less carbon per passenger mile or ton-mile of cargo (even though "carbon" is not the target of most of the improvements). Engines are more efficient and mileage is greater. Some of the fleet is being switched over to electricity, which doesn't emit any carbon from fuel - at least at the vehicle. More of it is running lower-carbon-per-unit-energy fuel, such as natural gas.

    But if you insist on measuring carbon emission against unit-of-fuel-consumed, for any given fuel type you will NEVER see ANY CHANGE. A given amount of a given type of fuel will contain a given amount of carbon, and it will all be emitted as the fuel is used.

    Nyah!

    --
    Bantam Dominique roosters crow a four-note song. Once you've heard it as "Happy BIRTHday" you can't NOT hear it that way
  10. Re: as fuel efficiency has improved by presidenteloco · · Score: 2

    and the reason people have bought bigger vehicles (and thus not helped reduce greenhouse gas emissions) as fuel efficiency increased is because governments did not have the mental acuity and testicular fortitude to increase gas taxes as fuel efficiency increased, which would have led to people having the same cost as before for operating a vehicle of the same size as before, so they would have stuck with the smaller vehicles they were happy enough with before (and are still happy with in most other countries in the world.)

    If you want to use efficiency gains for environmental benefit, you must increase the cost per unit of the input fuel at a rate equal to the efficiency gains. That reduces the consumption of the fuel in the economy and the emissions, and has no negative impact on utility. It's so logical that it has no chance in hell of ever being adopted as government policy.

    --

    Where are we going and why are we in a handbasket?
  11. Re:They're better than the "favored" sources. by toadlife · · Score: 2

    Coal/Oil? All you need is a spark.
    Solar/Wind? You have to consume energy and materials before you even get to having a chance at energy production.

    Coal and oil don't jump out the ground and transport, refine and store themselves.

    I gallon of gasoline takes 4 to 6 Kwh of energy to produce.

    --
    I don't always use unix-like operating systems; but when I do, I prefer FreeBSD.