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Expiring Section 702 of FISA Helped US Conclude Russia Hacked Election To Help Trump, NSA Chief Says (reuters.com)

Dustin Volz, reporting for Reuters: A top U.S. intelligence official said Thursday a controversial surveillance law that allows the broad electronic spying of foreigners played a major role in understanding Russia's alleged interference in the 2016 presidential election. The statement from Admiral Mike Rogers, the director of the U.S. National Security Agency, may bolster efforts by intelligence agencies to fully preserve the authority, known as Section 702 of the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act, before it expires at the end of the year. Privacy advocates have for years said Section 702 allows for excessively broad surveillance, including warrantless access to some American communications, and should be reformed to include new curbs. "I would highlight much, not all, much of what was in the intelligence community's assessment, for example, on the Russian efforts against the U.S. election process in 2016, was informed by knowledge we gained through (Section) 702 authority," Rogers said. Rogers said allowing the statute to expire on Dec. 31, unless Congress votes to reauthorize it, would degrade U.S. intelligence agencies' ability to provide "timely warning and insight" on a variety of criminal and national security threats.

30 of 390 comments (clear)

  1. Fake Headlines normally end with ? by TimSSG · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Fake Headlines normally end with ? Tim S.

    1. Re:Fake Headlines normally end with ? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

      What it should say is, "Loophole that allowed Obama Administration to spy on Americans is about to expire"

      Everything else is spin.

  2. So, in other words it was worthless by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Given that there's been no evidence provided, anywhere, of any sort of election hacking, and that Hillary lost the election not due to Russian interference but due to her own failure to campaign in her "blue firewall" combined with her many scandals, we can conclude that this Section 702 of the FISA provided no actionable intelligence and, in fact, did not help with anything. Sounds like it should be allowed to expire.

    1. Re:So, in other words it was worthless by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Cover what up? There is no evidence of Russian involvement in the US election in any way, shape, or form. It never happened. There's been a lot of speculation and a lot of rumors, but absolutely no evidence has ever been presented. If it existed, it would surely have been shown by now.

      A ton of evidence has been presented to show that Hillary's failure to win was due to her own failed campaign strategy. She targeted the wrong states, period. Trump didn't, period.

      You can't cover up a thing that never happened.

    2. Re:So, in other words it was worthless by rickb928 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Probably shouldn't feed them. It won't help.

      --
      deleting the extra space after periods so i can stay relevant, yeah.
    3. Re:So, in other words it was worthless by ichthus · · Score: 4, Insightful

      There are facts here

      Provide ONE. Just one fact that proves Russian involvement in "hacking the election" would surely shut him up.

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      sig: sauer
    4. Re:So, in other words it was worthless by inhuman_4 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      That's going to be difficult considering the DNC has repeatedly refused to let the FBI look at the hacked server. The primary claim of Russian hacking comes from a private contractor (CloudStrike) hired by the DNC, not law enforcement or the intelligence services. Worse the contractor has since retracted some of it's claims. The entire DNC hacking investigation was a dog and pony show right from the start.

  3. This is all a moot point by rsilvergun · · Score: 1, Insightful

    unless the Dems take the House since it's up to the House to bring impeachment charges. And I don't see that happening. I mean, it should. Trump and the Republicans are insanely unpopular. The corporate Dems are weaker than ever and many will lose their primaries. Some Folks like to vote the other party because a lack of Gridlock makes them nervous (e.g. true conservatives as opposed to regressives using conservative rhetoric). The pieces are all there for a land slight victory.

    But as the last election proved, if anyone can blow a sure thing it's the Democrats...

    --
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    1. Re:This is all a moot point by Gravis+Zero · · Score: 4, Insightful

      unless the Dems take the House since it's up to the House to bring impeachment charges.

      What the fuck does that have to do with anything in the article?! Just trying to stir up trouble?

      --
      Anons need not reply. Questions end with a question mark.
    2. Re:This is all a moot point by phantomfive · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Trump and the Republicans are insanely unpopular.

      That's unlikely. Among certain segments, they are certainly wildly unpopular, but among other segments they are popular, to the point that people would defend them with guns if necessary.

      --
      "First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
    3. Re:This is all a moot point by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      So the Russians hacked, obtained, then published incriminating emails from the servers of key Democrats.

      I am not saying this is ok...but....why did the Democrats send incriminating emails in the first place? If they had not been betraying us, then the hacks would not have been harmful to them.

      I fully expect that the Republicans are betraying us too. Maybe they are smarter about how they conspire. Or maybe they just haven't been hacked yet.

    4. Re:This is all a moot point by Dorianny · · Score: 4, Insightful

      But as the last election proved, if anyone can blow a sure thing it's the Democrats...

      Actually historically the Incumbent party looses the Presidency when the incumbent is not running. The GOP was also in control of Congress, the Senate as well as a large number of State legislative bodies and even a larger chunk of Governors. By all accounts it should have been a easy win for the GOP until they almost blew it by nominating Trump.

      The most interesting part is that it was the Democrats system of Superdelegates, meant to prevent a non-competitive delegate (like Trump) that stopped the more populist Sanders from getting the nomination and some would argue costing them the election

    5. Re:This is all a moot point by ClickOnThis · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I fully expect that the Republicans are betraying us too. Maybe they are smarter about how they conspire. Or maybe they just haven't been hacked yet.

      Or maybe the Russians wanted Trump, not Hillary, to be elected.

      --
      If it weren't for deadlines, nothing would be late.
    6. Re:This is all a moot point by aardvarkjoe · · Score: 4, Insightful

      But as the last election proved, if anyone can blow a sure thing it's the Democrats...

      Actually historically the Incumbent party looses the Presidency when the incumbent is not running. The GOP was also in control of Congress, the Senate as well as a large number of State legislative bodies and even a larger chunk of Governors. By all accounts it should have been a easy win for the GOP until they almost blew it by nominating Trump.

      Both parties managed to nominate the absolute worst candidate they possibly could. No matter who won, we would be saying that the other party blew a chance for a "sure thing."

      --

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  4. Bullshit by sexconker · · Score: 4, Insightful

    If they had any evidence of Russian interference, they should have come forward with it.

    Rogers said allowing the statute to expire on Dec. 31, unless Congress votes to reauthorize it, would degrade U.S. intelligence agencies' ability to provide "timely warning and insight" on a variety of criminal and national security threats.

    Even if we believe they have info they're not sharing, how timely or insightful could it be? The election was half a year ago.

    1. Re:Bullshit by Moof123 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      This. We gave up privacy so they could sit on their hands? It appears we are only hearing about this so that they can keep their toy.

      Show us the intelligence, and then show us proof it actually did some good. We know the answer to the second part already...

    2. Re:Bullshit by thesupraman · · Score: 4, Insightful

      No, you gave up your privacy so that they could collect everything about you, so that if in the future you step out of line, they can quietly remind you about things you did previously that would be SO embarrassing if they accidentally became public.

      THAT is why you gave up your freedom, never forget that.

      And that works pretty much all the way up - just look at the 'friendly' foreign governments bending over backwards for the US these days - do you really think its because they think its the best thing for their country? Or perhaps they have been quietly briefed on what the media would accidentally get leaked if they dont tow the line.

      After all, the US Is the world police right? And we have been nicvely educated that we have to accept corruption in the police, because, well, dont ask for reasons, its just accepted!

      And if you think they will give up their toy just because its no longer officially allowed? Oh dear...

  5. Re:Well that settles it by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Yeah, NSA bullshit doesn't matter, as long as Trump is involved. Raagh! Progressivism!!

  6. Re:Want to live a happier life? by quonset · · Score: 1, Insightful

    Ignore ALL these narrative headlines and articles until they read "HERE IS THE PROOF...".

    Like Trump saying he was told three times by Comey he wasn't under investigation yet has not provided anything to back up this claim?

    How about Trump claiming voter fraud yet again, providing no proof?

    People being bused in to vote?

    There's more, but we'll keep ignoring his orangeness until he says, "HERE IS THE PROOF...".

  7. Re:Want to live a happier life? by king+neckbeard · · Score: 1, Insightful

    Trump making bullshit claims without evidence doesn't magically prevent the NSA from making bullshit claims without evidence.

    --
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  8. Re:Want to live a happier life? by TrancePhreak · · Score: 4, Insightful

    The first video on this page at about 50s in corroborates Trump's statement that he was not under investigation. http://circa.com/politics/acco...

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    -]Phreak Out[-
  9. The Russian efforts against the U.S. election? by AHuxley · · Score: 3, Insightful

    What did the Russians do?
    Have thousands of embassy staff drive out into fly over states without the FBI noticing?
    Get deep into the different parts of the USA without people working on the US election reporting strangers asking questions and been in secure areas?
    Have US political leaders not give good speeches in parts of the USA that ensured people voted for them?
    Ensured US political parties selected unelectable candidates?
    Altered the locations speeches got given so one candidate did not fully cover the USA?
    The FBI was never able to detect any of the Russian embassy staff movements in the USA?
    Reworked speeches so one candidate did not appear electable? A US political party should have found a better candidate that was well liked all over the USA.
    Provided Russian advisors to a candidate so the US political party system made mistakes?
    Russian has thousands of trusted people pre positioned in the US election staff ready to alter US votes? The FBI is unaware of such massive human efforts?
    The US has computerised its entire election process and Russia flipped votes at a city, county, parish and federal level without anyone from any other party or the FBI seeing changes to the tally?
    Russian staff walked out to US paper and election computer networks to physically change results before a count?

    If a US party wants to win an election find a good candidate that can win in fly over states. Get them out to all parts of the USA and give speeches that win elections. Long speeches, interesting speeches, fun speeches, policy positions that people want to listen to and read about all over the USA.
    Ensure the candidate has the ability to talk all over the USA without any other issues over a long election cycle.
    Patronizing and boring speeches on the elite East and West coast do not win elections in fly over states.
    Did Russia make the speeches boring too?
    So with vast domestic spying powers and funding the NSA will hope to uncover what the all the FBI funding and FBI experts could not?

    --
    Domestic spying is now "Benign Information Gathering"
  10. Hacked the election? Really? by Mike+Van+Pelt · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Come on, show me some evidence of the Godless Rooskies(TM) actually hacking the election, as in changing the count of the ballots, as opposed to accusations (likely correct) that they had some involvement in releasing emails from Her sooper-seekrit mail server in her very secure linen closet.

    I mean, seriously, I didn't vote for that SOB either, but this hysteria sounds like Nixon justifying the Watergate break-in because "everybody knows" George McGovern is a commie.

    1. Re:Hacked the election? Really? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Russia intentionally disseminated false information to change how US registered voters would vote.

      By that measure, so did both the Democratic and Republican parties.

      That is not "hacking". That is called campaigning.

    2. Re:Hacked the election? Really? by Kiuas · · Score: 4, Insightful

      That is not "hacking". That is called campaigning.

      Well, yes, sure. But it should still be alarming to you that foreign powers are 'campaigning' - rather successfully it seems - for one side. You can already see the effects as the Trump administration seems to want to do everything to divert attention and discussions from the Russians. The Russians helped them bring Hillary down with the hacks, but that also means that they probably have the means to bring Trump.

      I'm not American, I'm a Finn, and as such I'm acutely aware of the Russian mentality of indirect control. During the cold war we were not a Soviet satellite exactly, but as the threat of soviet invasion was quite real, there was widespread self-censorship. Fearing the reaction of the Soviet leadership, both politicians and the media avoided in public saying anything that could be deemed too critical in Moscow and be used to justify either disrupting trade (of which we did a lot with them) or military action. This was so characteristic of Finnish politics during the cold war that the term is now named after us: finlandization.

      As I look at the way the white house behaves currently, it does resemble this to an extent: while there's obviously no need for the US to fear direct Russian invasion so the media can still freely discuss about these issues, there's been a noted change in tone towards Russia already. The 'alternative media' seems to be pushing a narrative according to which this whole investigation is in fact due to 'the mainstream media' disliking Russia purely because Hillary/dems are against Russia and want to drive a wedge between US-Russian relations, I was watching a video yesterday about the joking comment Lavrov made when asked about the firing of Comey (he said: "He was fired? You're kidding?!" barely containing his laughter) and one of the top comments on the video was; "CNN won't be happy until we nuke Russia or they nuke us." Think about what this implies: it implies that by reporting on these events, the media is guilty of provoking the Russians. It implies that Lavrov and the Russians' motives/actions should never be questioned because the mere act of questioning jeopardizes peace and stability and puts you in risk of war. The Trump-base has been effectively sold the idea that this whole deal is in fact not the fault of Russians seeking political influence over the US leadership, but a conspiracy to tarnish the good and friendly, peace-loving Russians,

      Think if this has happened in the Bush or Obama eras; how different would the reaction of republicans have been if Obama was under investigation by the FBI over ties to Russia (or any other country) and he'd have sacked the director? You think they'd have been as calm about it as they're now? This is exactly what the Russians are looking for with this trick: they don't care about how they're perceived, they don't care that you guys bombed an airstrip (and warned them in advance), it's trivial for them. They care about positioning themselves in such a way so that the ruling party cannot act unilaterally on any issue important to Moscow without considering first whether or not the Russians will retaliate by leaking evidence (real or fabricated) about their possible collaboration with the administration and hence bringing about significant political damage. Furthermore this allows them to disrupt US domestic politics: the more infighting, confusion and paranoia there exists in Washington over whose side everyone is on and who can be trusted, the better for them, In the end they probably won't bother to even try and 'save' Trump if he's impeached, in fact they may do the opposite and help throw him under the bus, because they can then amp up the above mentioned rhetoric and convince Trump's base that he's been a victim of a massive conspiracy by the establishment and 'mainstream media' and further increase chaos and division in american politics. The more divided a country is int

      --
      "It is the business of the future to be dangerous" -Alfred North Whitehead
  11. Re:In the hands of a madman... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Up until your last sentence I thought you were talking about Obama.

  12. Seriously, can we stop this now? by bobbied · · Score: 3, Insightful

    The Russians *tried* to mess with the election, sure.. But they messed with both sides as I recall... Sure, the exposure of the internal democratic committee's E-mails through WikiLeaks seems to have a bit more effect on the outcome, but only because of how damming they where... Who knew the democrats where the nasty cheating so and so's their E-mail showed? I sure didn't dream they where that kind of folks... In a way, they sank themselves, albeit with Russian help.

    There should have been no way Trump could win, she should have toasted him by more than double digits and walked away with nearly every electoral vote out there, But, even though she out spent, out ground gamed, had more experience and had a less contested primary and thus a less fractured party base, she didn't win.

    Face it, she gave this election away... SHE lost it all by herself. The Russians didn't take it, Comey didn't take it, The Donald didn't take it (how could he?), she just lost it. The Russians didn't do her any favors, nor in the long run did Comey, but as heavily favored as she was going into this, there is no other place to put the blame.

    Until democrats get off this "The Russians Hacked the Election and that's why Trump won" kick, they are never going to get anywhere useful..

    --
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  13. Sssssoooooo Wwwwwhhhhhaaaaatttttt!!!!!!! by OYAHHH · · Score: 5, Insightful

    What idiot in their right mind would think Russia would not attempt to impact our elections. Even if it were just for kicks and giggles.

    So, of course Russia "hacked" our elections. But, did they change a single solitary vote? Did they hack into any ballot machines and change the totals?

    Getting your hair raised over Russians meddling in our elections is a bit much while you do not utter a peep when Hillary Clinton brags about overthrowing Qaddafi, Obama attempts to overthrow Assad, Obama meddles in Israeli elections, Obama spies on Merkel, and Obama spied on journalists and hacked their computers.

    The only Russians who actually and truly impacted our elections were those Russians in the United States who actually cast votes.

    The reason Donald Trump was elected was because Middle America was fed up. And they directed that anger at Hillary Clinton who was the epitome of "politics as usual."

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  14. Re:It's got everything to do with the article by Mashiki · · Score: 4, Insightful

    The article is about yet another reveal of links between Trump & Russia, in particular their helping him win the election.

    No all the article is about is "MUH RUSSIANS" because I said so. Zero evidence, zero facts. But hey, let's run with your narrative. You ready to prosecute Obama for directly funding opposition in Israel, and interfering in the French and UK election? Because that happened.

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  15. Re:It's got everything to do with the article by Gravis+Zero · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Your posts seem to indicate you only read the title. Try reading the article.

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