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Expiring Section 702 of FISA Helped US Conclude Russia Hacked Election To Help Trump, NSA Chief Says (reuters.com)

Dustin Volz, reporting for Reuters: A top U.S. intelligence official said Thursday a controversial surveillance law that allows the broad electronic spying of foreigners played a major role in understanding Russia's alleged interference in the 2016 presidential election. The statement from Admiral Mike Rogers, the director of the U.S. National Security Agency, may bolster efforts by intelligence agencies to fully preserve the authority, known as Section 702 of the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act, before it expires at the end of the year. Privacy advocates have for years said Section 702 allows for excessively broad surveillance, including warrantless access to some American communications, and should be reformed to include new curbs. "I would highlight much, not all, much of what was in the intelligence community's assessment, for example, on the Russian efforts against the U.S. election process in 2016, was informed by knowledge we gained through (Section) 702 authority," Rogers said. Rogers said allowing the statute to expire on Dec. 31, unless Congress votes to reauthorize it, would degrade U.S. intelligence agencies' ability to provide "timely warning and insight" on a variety of criminal and national security threats.

24 of 390 comments (clear)

  1. So, in other words it was worthless by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Given that there's been no evidence provided, anywhere, of any sort of election hacking, and that Hillary lost the election not due to Russian interference but due to her own failure to campaign in her "blue firewall" combined with her many scandals, we can conclude that this Section 702 of the FISA provided no actionable intelligence and, in fact, did not help with anything. Sounds like it should be allowed to expire.

    1. Re:So, in other words it was worthless by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Cover what up? There is no evidence of Russian involvement in the US election in any way, shape, or form. It never happened. There's been a lot of speculation and a lot of rumors, but absolutely no evidence has ever been presented. If it existed, it would surely have been shown by now.

      A ton of evidence has been presented to show that Hillary's failure to win was due to her own failed campaign strategy. She targeted the wrong states, period. Trump didn't, period.

      You can't cover up a thing that never happened.

    2. Re:So, in other words it was worthless by rickb928 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Probably shouldn't feed them. It won't help.

      --
      deleting the extra space after periods so i can stay relevant, yeah.
    3. Re:So, in other words it was worthless by JoshuaZ · · Score: 5, Informative

      First, of all, elections are won and lost not by single things but by collections. One can have more than one mistake or more than one event leading to an election win or loss. Second, the evidence that serious attempts at hacking Clinton did occur is overwhelming, and saying otherwise is simply ignoring the evidence. We even know the exact phishing attempts that lead to the hacks http://thehill.com/policy/cybersecurity/310234-typo-may-have-caused-podesta-email-hack?. Third of all, if you do want to actually point to other things that had an impact also, the statistical evidence that Comey's actions mattered is an almost complete slamdunk. See https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/the-comey-letter-probably-cost-clinton-the-election/. Facts matter.

    4. Re:So, in other words it was worthless by ichthus · · Score: 4, Insightful

      There are facts here

      Provide ONE. Just one fact that proves Russian involvement in "hacking the election" would surely shut him up.

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      sig: sauer
    5. Re:So, in other words it was worthless by inhuman_4 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      That's going to be difficult considering the DNC has repeatedly refused to let the FBI look at the hacked server. The primary claim of Russian hacking comes from a private contractor (CloudStrike) hired by the DNC, not law enforcement or the intelligence services. Worse the contractor has since retracted some of it's claims. The entire DNC hacking investigation was a dog and pony show right from the start.

  2. Re:Fake Headlines normally end with ? by Aighearach · · Score: 4, Funny

    Fake Headlines normally end with ?

    It isn't fake, it turns out it really is a headline after all!

  3. Bullshit by sexconker · · Score: 4, Insightful

    If they had any evidence of Russian interference, they should have come forward with it.

    Rogers said allowing the statute to expire on Dec. 31, unless Congress votes to reauthorize it, would degrade U.S. intelligence agencies' ability to provide "timely warning and insight" on a variety of criminal and national security threats.

    Even if we believe they have info they're not sharing, how timely or insightful could it be? The election was half a year ago.

    1. Re:Bullshit by Moof123 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      This. We gave up privacy so they could sit on their hands? It appears we are only hearing about this so that they can keep their toy.

      Show us the intelligence, and then show us proof it actually did some good. We know the answer to the second part already...

    2. Re:Bullshit by thesupraman · · Score: 4, Insightful

      No, you gave up your privacy so that they could collect everything about you, so that if in the future you step out of line, they can quietly remind you about things you did previously that would be SO embarrassing if they accidentally became public.

      THAT is why you gave up your freedom, never forget that.

      And that works pretty much all the way up - just look at the 'friendly' foreign governments bending over backwards for the US these days - do you really think its because they think its the best thing for their country? Or perhaps they have been quietly briefed on what the media would accidentally get leaked if they dont tow the line.

      After all, the US Is the world police right? And we have been nicvely educated that we have to accept corruption in the police, because, well, dont ask for reasons, its just accepted!

      And if you think they will give up their toy just because its no longer officially allowed? Oh dear...

  4. Re:This is all a moot point by Gravis+Zero · · Score: 4, Insightful

    unless the Dems take the House since it's up to the House to bring impeachment charges.

    What the fuck does that have to do with anything in the article?! Just trying to stir up trouble?

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    Anons need not reply. Questions end with a question mark.
  5. Re:Fake Headlines normally end with ? by Imrik · · Score: 4, Informative

    It isn't fake, the NSA chief really did say that...

  6. Re:Comey 2 by SpammersAreScum · · Score: 5, Funny

    Well, he DID insult gays. Implying Trump is a gay insults gays the same way that implying Trump is a weasel insults weasels.

  7. Re:Fake Headlines normally end with ? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

    What it should say is, "Loophole that allowed Obama Administration to spy on Americans is about to expire"

    Everything else is spin.

  8. Re:Want to live a happier life? by TrancePhreak · · Score: 4, Insightful

    The first video on this page at about 50s in corroborates Trump's statement that he was not under investigation. http://circa.com/politics/acco...

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    -]Phreak Out[-
  9. Re:This is all a moot point by phantomfive · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Trump and the Republicans are insanely unpopular.

    That's unlikely. Among certain segments, they are certainly wildly unpopular, but among other segments they are popular, to the point that people would defend them with guns if necessary.

    --
    "First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
  10. Hacked the election? Really? by Mike+Van+Pelt · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Come on, show me some evidence of the Godless Rooskies(TM) actually hacking the election, as in changing the count of the ballots, as opposed to accusations (likely correct) that they had some involvement in releasing emails from Her sooper-seekrit mail server in her very secure linen closet.

    I mean, seriously, I didn't vote for that SOB either, but this hysteria sounds like Nixon justifying the Watergate break-in because "everybody knows" George McGovern is a commie.

    1. Re:Hacked the election? Really? by Kiuas · · Score: 4, Insightful

      That is not "hacking". That is called campaigning.

      Well, yes, sure. But it should still be alarming to you that foreign powers are 'campaigning' - rather successfully it seems - for one side. You can already see the effects as the Trump administration seems to want to do everything to divert attention and discussions from the Russians. The Russians helped them bring Hillary down with the hacks, but that also means that they probably have the means to bring Trump.

      I'm not American, I'm a Finn, and as such I'm acutely aware of the Russian mentality of indirect control. During the cold war we were not a Soviet satellite exactly, but as the threat of soviet invasion was quite real, there was widespread self-censorship. Fearing the reaction of the Soviet leadership, both politicians and the media avoided in public saying anything that could be deemed too critical in Moscow and be used to justify either disrupting trade (of which we did a lot with them) or military action. This was so characteristic of Finnish politics during the cold war that the term is now named after us: finlandization.

      As I look at the way the white house behaves currently, it does resemble this to an extent: while there's obviously no need for the US to fear direct Russian invasion so the media can still freely discuss about these issues, there's been a noted change in tone towards Russia already. The 'alternative media' seems to be pushing a narrative according to which this whole investigation is in fact due to 'the mainstream media' disliking Russia purely because Hillary/dems are against Russia and want to drive a wedge between US-Russian relations, I was watching a video yesterday about the joking comment Lavrov made when asked about the firing of Comey (he said: "He was fired? You're kidding?!" barely containing his laughter) and one of the top comments on the video was; "CNN won't be happy until we nuke Russia or they nuke us." Think about what this implies: it implies that by reporting on these events, the media is guilty of provoking the Russians. It implies that Lavrov and the Russians' motives/actions should never be questioned because the mere act of questioning jeopardizes peace and stability and puts you in risk of war. The Trump-base has been effectively sold the idea that this whole deal is in fact not the fault of Russians seeking political influence over the US leadership, but a conspiracy to tarnish the good and friendly, peace-loving Russians,

      Think if this has happened in the Bush or Obama eras; how different would the reaction of republicans have been if Obama was under investigation by the FBI over ties to Russia (or any other country) and he'd have sacked the director? You think they'd have been as calm about it as they're now? This is exactly what the Russians are looking for with this trick: they don't care about how they're perceived, they don't care that you guys bombed an airstrip (and warned them in advance), it's trivial for them. They care about positioning themselves in such a way so that the ruling party cannot act unilaterally on any issue important to Moscow without considering first whether or not the Russians will retaliate by leaking evidence (real or fabricated) about their possible collaboration with the administration and hence bringing about significant political damage. Furthermore this allows them to disrupt US domestic politics: the more infighting, confusion and paranoia there exists in Washington over whose side everyone is on and who can be trusted, the better for them, In the end they probably won't bother to even try and 'save' Trump if he's impeached, in fact they may do the opposite and help throw him under the bus, because they can then amp up the above mentioned rhetoric and convince Trump's base that he's been a victim of a massive conspiracy by the establishment and 'mainstream media' and further increase chaos and division in american politics. The more divided a country is int

      --
      "It is the business of the future to be dangerous" -Alfred North Whitehead
  11. lies, damn lies by phantomfive · · Score: 4, Informative

    "I would highlight much, not all, much of what was in the intelligence community's assessment, for example, on the Russian efforts against the U.S. election process in 2016, was informed by knowledge we gained through (Section) 702 authority,"

    I would like to see one piece of evidence they gained from the 702 authority. From the report they released, there was not one piece of evidence they presented that required special authority. There was not one piece of evidence thy presented that was new, or unknown by the security community up to that point. Never trust an NSA spokesperson, or an FBI spokesperson.

    That is, trust them, but verify. Which means don't trust.

    --
    "First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
  12. Re:This is all a moot point by Dorianny · · Score: 4, Insightful

    But as the last election proved, if anyone can blow a sure thing it's the Democrats...

    Actually historically the Incumbent party looses the Presidency when the incumbent is not running. The GOP was also in control of Congress, the Senate as well as a large number of State legislative bodies and even a larger chunk of Governors. By all accounts it should have been a easy win for the GOP until they almost blew it by nominating Trump.

    The most interesting part is that it was the Democrats system of Superdelegates, meant to prevent a non-competitive delegate (like Trump) that stopped the more populist Sanders from getting the nomination and some would argue costing them the election

  13. Sssssoooooo Wwwwwhhhhhaaaaatttttt!!!!!!! by OYAHHH · · Score: 5, Insightful

    What idiot in their right mind would think Russia would not attempt to impact our elections. Even if it were just for kicks and giggles.

    So, of course Russia "hacked" our elections. But, did they change a single solitary vote? Did they hack into any ballot machines and change the totals?

    Getting your hair raised over Russians meddling in our elections is a bit much while you do not utter a peep when Hillary Clinton brags about overthrowing Qaddafi, Obama attempts to overthrow Assad, Obama meddles in Israeli elections, Obama spies on Merkel, and Obama spied on journalists and hacked their computers.

    The only Russians who actually and truly impacted our elections were those Russians in the United States who actually cast votes.

    The reason Donald Trump was elected was because Middle America was fed up. And they directed that anger at Hillary Clinton who was the epitome of "politics as usual."

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    Caution: Contents under pressure
  14. Re:It's got everything to do with the article by Mashiki · · Score: 4, Insightful

    The article is about yet another reveal of links between Trump & Russia, in particular their helping him win the election.

    No all the article is about is "MUH RUSSIANS" because I said so. Zero evidence, zero facts. But hey, let's run with your narrative. You ready to prosecute Obama for directly funding opposition in Israel, and interfering in the French and UK election? Because that happened.

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    Om, nomnomnom...
  15. Re:This is all a moot point by aardvarkjoe · · Score: 4, Insightful

    But as the last election proved, if anyone can blow a sure thing it's the Democrats...

    Actually historically the Incumbent party looses the Presidency when the incumbent is not running. The GOP was also in control of Congress, the Senate as well as a large number of State legislative bodies and even a larger chunk of Governors. By all accounts it should have been a easy win for the GOP until they almost blew it by nominating Trump.

    Both parties managed to nominate the absolute worst candidate they possibly could. No matter who won, we would be saying that the other party blew a chance for a "sure thing."

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    How can we continue to believe in a just universe and freedom to eat crackers if we have no ale?
  16. Re: Fake Headlines normally end with ? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Informative

    We were fed up with the government so we elected Trump to fire everyone.