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French President-Elect Macron Urges Action On Climate Change (newsweek.com)

After Sunday's election in France, Macron's victory "is likely to be a boon for the French digital economy and its startup scene," writes a foreign policy think tank blog, "but the country's frosty relationship with U.S. tech companies is likely to remain over the next five years." Yet even before he was elected as France's new president, Emmanuel Macron was already warning the U.S. that withdrawing from the international Paris Climate change agreement could cost America its brightest innovators. Thelasko writes: French President elect Emmanuel Macron has a message to U.S. scientists and engineers working on climate change. "Please, come to France. You are welcome. It's your nation. We like innovation. We want innovative people. We want people working on climate change, energy renewables and new technologies. France is your nation."
Newsweek reports this week that without America's involvement, the Paris Climate agreement "will have no way of meeting its goals of reducing global net carbon emissions" -- but that Macron could persuade the U.S. to honor its agreement. ("It reportedly took just one phone call conversation between Canadian Prime Minister Justin Trudeau and the president for Trump to reconsider withdrawing entirely for NAFTA, another international agreement signed into law prior to his tenure in the Oval Office.") And in the meantime, Macron has also promised not to cut France's energy-research budget, and will even reinforce it "to accelerate our initiative."

22 of 174 comments (clear)

  1. As the US by Esteanil · · Score: 5, Insightful

    As the US continues falling into a post-intellectual, foreigner-fearing state, the brain drain will only continue.
    Vast parts of the scientific progress the US "gave" the post WWII-world was built on immigrants, but now the tide is turning - the empire falling apart at the seams.

    --
    I'm a dreamer, the world is my playpen. But hey, I'm a serious person, I can't dream all the time.
    1. Re:As the US by iMadeGhostzilla · · Score: 4, Interesting

      You're making a prediction about the future -- you are asserting what *will* happen. Barring any psychic abilities you may have, which I wouldn't deny, the question is how do you know. Yours is not a trivial prediction, and many major non-trivial predictions regarding Trump have turned out to be false: from his inevitable loss in the elections through Paul Krugman's forecast that if Trump wins "the stock market will crash and will *never* recover" and so on. So what gives rise to the absolute certainty of this upcoming brain drain?

    2. Re:As the US by Esteanil · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Trump, and even the whole Republican party, is hardly the only source of anti-intellectualism in the US, it's been ongoing for quite a while.

      You've got colleges and universities that can't handle debate, and appear to value the contributions of their sports teams far above any science produced.
      Ideological interests have been shaping your school books for decades, and the problem's getting worse.
      The right disbelieves global warming, the left disbelieves GMO and nuclear safety - two of the most important tools to actually solve some of the problems caused by said global warming.
      Federal science funding has been stagnant / dropping in real value since the 80s.
      Your corporates are raiding the most successful university labs - turning them from basic to applied science, and locking that science up to the point where they're blocked from even discussing in general terms what they're working on with their peers.

      This is just off of the top of my head, I'm sure the slashdot community can come up with more examples.

      And, of course, if Trump gets his budget through thousands of US scientists will be unable to get funding and be forced to look for employment elsewhere.

      That the US is going to see significantly more brain drain in the years to come does not seem to me like a very controversial prediction.

      Here's to hoping things change or that I'm just wrong.

      --
      I'm a dreamer, the world is my playpen. But hey, I'm a serious person, I can't dream all the time.
    3. Re:As the US by Gravis+Zero · · Score: 3, Insightful

      As the US continues falling into a post-intellectual, foreigner-fearing state

      Sweeping generalizations like this lack accuracy. There is a good possibility we can emerge from this slump with a more enlightened perspective on the world.

      --
      Anons need not reply. Questions end with a question mark.
    4. Re:As the US by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      A narrow minded cherry-picked story if I've ever heard one.

      Yes many scientifically progressive people ESCAPED their home countries to work for the US in post WW2 timelines. If that's what you mean.
      These scientists were not babies in the US, growing up here due to immigrant parents, we cannot claim them.

      But it is a modern narrative to believe the latest generations of illegal immigrants are our future. No they are not, they are one of many contributors to the US's and the world's future...

      So this whole "Waiting For SuperCitizens" to grow up & contribute, whilst the rest of the regular US citizenry lay about like bums is incorrect. Very incorrect.

    5. Re:As the US by Esteanil · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Where did I say anything about illegal immigrants? The fact is the US has been a significant brain drain on the rest of the world for ~70 years. You've had some of the best schools, the best labs and the best funding for science. This has attracted top-league scientists and entrepreneurs.

      But the growing security state, the rising xenophobia and the very public hostility to science is now leading many of the same kinds of people to avoiding visiting the US altogether, much less wanting to immigrate.

      --
      I'm a dreamer, the world is my playpen. But hey, I'm a serious person, I can't dream all the time.
    6. Re:As the US by Zocalo · · Score: 2

      Yes, it's a prediction, but one that does seem at least likely to be a general trend, if not the ultimate outcome posited. The US (and the UK, for that matter) seem to be going out of their way to make themselves less attractive a destination for both long and short term visitors, whether for tourism or business. Not just from a general increase in xenophobia amongst the populace that feel a need to keep out all Muslims in case a few might looking to blow them up, or Mexicans in case they take the jobs they're often not willing to do in the first place, but from things like the laptop carry on ban.

      We discussed it here a few days ago, but the general reaction to the rumour that the US was considering its ban on laptops as carry-on from the EU (which the UK will no doubt dutifully follow suit on, again), was than many people would reconsider flying into the US. Why would people want to travel to the US/UK for tourism, conferences, or whatever, and go through all that (or force attendees to), when they could just go elsewhere instead and minimise the inconvenience? That's something that is detrimental business, academia, and industry - all things that would start to lead towards the post-intellectual, foreigner-fearing states, that are gradually marginalised by the rest of the world that the OP was predicting.

      Screw French though; I suspect Mandarin is going to be much more valuable to have as a secondary language, and a lot sooner than most of us were perhaps expecting.

      --
      UNIX? They're not even circumcised! Savages!
    7. Re:As the US by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Chicken shit. The terrorists have won...at least with your sorry ass.

    8. Re:As the US by GameboyRMH · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Mod parent Informative. This is how terrorism works.

      --
      "When information is power, privacy is freedom" - Jah-Wren Ryel
    9. Re:As the US by phantomfive · · Score: 2

      the brain drain will only continue.

      What brain drain are you talking about here? Have scientists been leaving America in droves to seek out better opportunities in other countries? You are the first person I've heard mention this.

      --
      "First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
    10. Re:As the US by iMadeGhostzilla · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Krugman had said the market would crash immediately on Nov 9 if Trump had won and would never recover. An MIT professor Simon Johnson, a former chief economist of the IMF, said on Oct 29, "A big adverse surprise – like the election of Donald Trump in the US – would likely cause the stock market to crash and plunge the world into recession."

      All I'm saying is, these are complex events, and the pattern has been that what what experts and lay people alike have said will "obviously" happen when it comes to Trump has been consistently wrong. I think we need to pause and look at things differently if we want to guess more accurately what will happen during his term.

    11. Re:As the US by acrimonious+howard · · Score: 3, Insightful
      Not going to challenge the main point, but

      The right disbelieves global warming, the left disbelieves GMO and nuclear safety...

      Almost all left-leaning people I talk to believe in GMO and nuclear safety, and the few that don't are always open to listening to my persistent arguments for them. I'm open to hearing who I should be talking to, I'm just sharing that it's hard for me to see these people being powerful voices based on my admittedly anecdotal experiences. Hrm, maybe it's because I live in Texas?

    12. Re:As the US by Barsteward · · Score: 2

      the rolling over started when your government starts spying on 100% of its population using "security" as a reason, make your people scared of people who do not look or talk like you, ban immigrants etc on the faulty premise you think it makes you sound strong, you hand the winning baton to the terrorists

      --
      "The hands that help are better far than lips that pray." - Robert Ingersoll (1833-1899)
  2. The scientists are talking, who is listening? by Mr+D+from+63 · · Score: 4, Informative

    The French Academy of Sciences has determined significant CO2 reduction is not feasible if France if they reduce nuclear. Here is a copy of a summary with some translated excerpts;

    France cannot achieve a significant reduction in emissions of greenhouse gases from electricity production while also reducing the share of nuclear in its energy mix, the country's Academy of Sciences says.

    "Simple common sense leads one to conclude that production of electricity that can meet the country's needs requires the availability of 'on demand' energies, which do not suffer from intermittency and which can be called upon at all times," it said. This means, in the absence of energy storage solutions, significant use will need to be made of thermal and nuclear power plants if France is to increase its use of renewable energy.

    Nuclear power last year accounted for 13% of electricity production in Germany, which decided in 2011 to phase out its use of this form of energy. In 2010, nuclear power had accounted for 22%. The academy noted that, even though renewable energy accounted for 30% of power production last year, the share of fossil fuels was unchanged at 55% because Germany has had to open new fossil fuel plants to provide the back-up required for intermittent renewable energy. Germany thus remains one of Europe's largest CO2 emitters.

    France, through its high dependence on nuclear energy, is one of the lowest emitters of greenhouse gases per capita: about half as much as Germany. France produces around 540 TWh of electricity with emissions of 46 million tonnes CO2 per year, compared with Germany, which produces about 631 TWh from 334 million tonnes.

    "Nuclear energy is objectively the most effective way to reduce the share of fossil fuels in the production of electrical energy," it said. "Within this general framework, there is a real contradiction in wanting to reduce emissions whilst reducing the share of nuclear power. In fact, many studies show that the total share of renewable energy cannot exceed 30-40% without leading to an exorbitant cost of electricity and the emission of greenhouse gases."

    The academy said "realistic and coherent" scenarios show that it is impossible to have an energy system based wholly on renewable energy sources, which also "indicate a reasonable trajectory towards an energy solution where nuclear power will have its place in the coming decades".

    In February, the French Nuclear Society issued a white paper stating the country needs to maintain its nuclear power generation capacity in order to raise the share of electricity from renewables without increasing the cost of electricity production.

    http://www.academie-sciences.f...

    1. Re:The scientists are talking, who is listening? by Mr+D+from+63 · · Score: 2

      Another item from the Academy for the 'wind blows everywhere' crowd;

      The variability in output from wind and solar energy requires the use of other forms of energy to offset this intermittency, the academy said. "One might think that energy exchanges at the European-level could mitigate this problem, but long nights are everywhere at the same time in Europe, and anticyclones are often with us and our neighbours simultaneously."

    2. Re:The scientists are talking, who is listening? by Crashmarik · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Oh stop with your facts and reasoning. These people have gotten so much harm done with shouting people down.

    3. Re:The scientists are talking, who is listening? by Mr+D+from+63 · · Score: 2

      What is sad is that not a single normal news source covered this. Had they said the opposite it would have been reported all over the place.

  3. Re:Innovate, but don't profit by fabriciom · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Yes you pay more in taxes and you get more from society like affordable healthcare and education.

  4. Re:Innovate, but don't profit by hey! · · Score: 2

    Yes, but what if you deduct the cost of football?

    --
    Post may contain irony: discontinue use if experiencing mood swings, nausea or elevated blood pressure.
  5. Re:King Emmanuel the Panderer by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

    The new French President, in 2017, is a royalist? You'd better explain what you mean.

  6. LOL. 1/3 to 1/2 of the emissions comes from china by WindBourne · · Score: 2

    and it will continue to grow.
    Yet, idiots are worried about a nation that emits less than 14%, and is dropping fast.

    --
    I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
  7. Re:As the US; GMO, nuclear safety by lenski · · Score: 2

    Lots of people "on the left" simply do not believe the promises of the companies and trade groups that their products are known to be safe (GMO) or known to be managed safely (nuclear).

    Something that I do not see enough is documentary evidence that the decisionmakers in technical agriculture or in management of nuclear facilities could give two shits about the long term effects of their work (GMO) or costs of waste management (nuclear).

    I for one fully trust decisionmakers to increase their profits to the exclusion of all other goals unless they are held strictly and personally accountable for their choices.

    GMO gives strong, almost monopolistic market power to their companies. Nuclear is so capital intensive and the fuel reprocessing/waste issue is so expensive that they have a hard time competing without cutting corners.

    Solve the incentive problems and allow for well-managed creative solutions to the downside risks, and the discussion will change dramatically. Until we see that these liars are held to account for lying then the greenies will use whatever (admittedly weak) logic they can muster to prevent or limit the fucking-over of those who lack influence over the decisions.