Netflix Says No To Unlocked Android Smartphones (androidpolice.com)

An anonymous reader writes: Last week Netflix app started showing up as "incompatible" on the Play Store for rooted and unlocked Android devices. However, the app itself continued to work fine, leading some to think it could have been an accident. However, Netflix has now confirmed to blog AndroidPolice that blocking modified devices from downloading the app was intentional. This is the full statement: "With our latest 5.0 release, we now fully rely on the Widevine DRM provided by Google; therefore, many devices that are not Google-certified or have been altered will no longer work with our latest app and those users will no longer see the Netflix app in the Play Store."

Comments

So pirate?

[borcharc]

Netflix works because it is easier than piracy. Ejecting the very small number of rooted android users won't stop people ripping Netflix content when you can still watch the movies on a computer...

Re:So pirate?

[MightyMartian]

MST3K The Return for one...

But I'm glad you get along fine. Some of us like to watch TV. I realize you are a superior human being in every possible way, but do take pity upon us lower life forms and our cheap entertainments. We have ascended the spheres as you have. Mind you, I bet you do miss the dildos.

Re:So pirate?

[Anonymous Coward]

Or just use one of the better root solutions that hides the root status on a per app basis, sky go/q, android pay, pokemon go, neflix all work fine while I continue to use my root apps happily.

Re:So pirate?

[Anonymous Coward]

I use it to let me kids watch some cartoons. Maybe time to shut down netflix. I hate this kind of crap.

Re:So pirate?

[AthanasiusKircher]

While I imagine there will be a bunch of Netflix hate here, I'd assume this is at least partly to conform to licensing standards insisted on by content creators. Obviously Netflix is becoming a major content creator, so they have self-interest here too, but the less "locked down" their service, the harder it will likely be for them to get 3rd-party licensed content.

Re:So pirate?

[sl3xd]

Ejecting the very small number of rooted android users won't stop people ripping Netflix content when you can still watch the movies on a computer...

There's a lot to be said that they probably don't care about the very small number of users who have rooted their phones; it will negatively affect a small number of users, but the impact to their bottom line is almost certainly lower than if they had to license (or develop) a different DRM system that would accommodate rooted phones.

Re:So pirate?

[Anubis IV]

Aside from a small number of people who would've done so anyway, no one is going to be ripping Netflix content in response to this, for the simple reason that the phone is the fallback we rely on only when we have absolutely nothing else to use. But because Netflix runs on basically every device, that scenario doesn't play out for most people with any sort of regularity.

At this moment, I have 7 different devices hooked directly up to my TV with which I can watch Netflix (Playstations 3 and 4, Xbox 360, Wii and Wii U, Apple TV, and a smart TV), all but two of which (the 360 and Wii) have been used in the last year to watch Netflix. We have a desktop, two laptops, and two tablets on which we can watch Netflix, all but one of which (the older laptop) has been used in the last year to watch Netflix.

...and then we have two phones, neither of which have been used to watch Netflix in the last year, because watching Netflix on your phone is an inherently inferior experience to watching on virtually any of the other devices they support. Again, anyone ripping Netflix "because of this" was already going to be doing so anyway because of other reasons they had for themselves.

Re:So pirate?

[Anonymous Coward]

Sure, but understand lack of knowledge of pop culture and current events does not make you "cool".

Nor does the hipster refrain "I don't even own a TV"br Bully for you, you have cut yourself off from common cultural heritage and come off as an uneducated arrogant dick.

Re:So pirate?

[Orphis]

Exactly, from experience, the tech company doesn't always have a say in the technology they use if they want to have access to content from large distributors.

Re:So pirate?

[green1]

There's always the other option.
DON'T DEVELOP A DRM SYSTEM AT ALL!

There are many advantages to this approach:
1) you don't piss off your rooted users (even if a small number)
2) it's much cheaper to implement
3) it has EXACTLY the same effect on piracy as a full blown billion dollar DRM scheme.

Re:So pirate?

[AmiMoJo]

It's security theatre, for the benefit of copyright holders who don't understand computers but were told by a DRM salesman they needed it to stop everyone watching for free.

Re:So pirate?

[Anonymous Coward]

Ted Cruz for Human President! http://www.tedcruzforhumanpres...

Re:So pirate?

[Grishnakh]

The problem here is that the companies they license content from won't allow them to simply not use DRM. Netflix could go this route, and then they wouldn't have any 3rd-party content at all.

Personally, I have two thoughts about this:

1) Who watches TV shows on their *phone*??? Honestly, I can't even imagine.

2) Why does the phone need to be non-rooted? I use Netflix just fine on my Linux system, by using Google Chrome (it's the only thing I use that browser for in fact). I don't have to have a corporate-controlled OS, only a corporate-controlled DRMed browser for that one purpose. So why can't Netflix do things that way on phones for those weirdos who want to watch Netflix on a phone?

Re:So pirate?

[Wootery]

If you really want to rip Netflix, just use Chrome on Linux. You can screenshot Netflix in Chrome on Linux without issue, so I'm assuming the framebuffer is totally 'unprotected'; you can presumably just capture the video through the usual means.

Re:So pirate?

[Wootery]

You're forgetting commuters. The advantage of a mobile device is, well, its mobility. If you want to watch Netflix on a train, your PS3 isn't an option, and even your laptop might be too unwieldy. No-one choses the eye-strain of a mobile device when a full-size alternative is available.

Netflix recently enabled download-to-view-later on Android. This presumably cost them a bunch of licensing hassle (only some videos are available to download), so they clearly take seriously the mobile platforms.

Re:So pirate?

[DontBeAMoran]

For me, Neflix is not only easier than piracy but it's a lot less trouble. Trying to match subtitles for a given DVD rip is like trying to win the lottery.

Re:So pirate?

[darkain]

Android isn't just phones, it is also set top TV boxes now. Many of those devices come pre-rooted, making the entire market for those devices totally fucked in terms of Netflix now.

Re:So pirate?

[Anonymous Coward]

This is what pirates have been doing silly. They've been using jailbroken android devices to "record" netflix streams and then post them on piracy sites if there isn't a better Blueray to rip from.

How else do you think netflix and amazon exclusives are winding up on piracy sites?

Re:So pirate?

[Anonymous Coward]

TV is just a thing. If you like TV, watch TV. If you don't like TV, don't watch TV. If you like lots of current shows, it's probably worth it for you to pay for TV. If there's one thing you like, and you're not interested in the rest, you're probably better off finding a way to see just that show.

It's OK to not like TV, and it's OK to not be terribly interested in current TV shows. It's also OK to not care much about baseball, football, NASCAR, or whatever other sport. It's also OK to like those things.

For several years, I didn't own a TV. Not for any kind of bullshit hipster reason, but just because there wasn't anything I wanted to watch enough to justify allocating space in my house to a TV. Now, I technically own one, although it's really a big display hooked up to a DVD player.

Re:So pirate?

[camperdave]

And tablets. Both of my roommates watch videos on their tablets. However, Netflix isn't blocking all Android devices. Only those that are rooted. Set-top TV boxes would not fall into that category.

Re:So pirate?

[TheRaven64]

What's in it for them? We didn't get away from DRM on music because the big four woke up one day and realised that DRM was anti-consumer. We got away from DRM on music because the big four woke up one day and realised that their insistence on DRM had given Apple a huge amount of control over their distribution channel and the only way to regain this control was to allow other distributors (and, eventually, Apple) to sell music without DRM. Netflix wants to have the same control over movie and TV show distribution that Apple had over music distribution at the height of iPod and iTunes Music Store popularity and the studios seem not to have realised that DRM helps Netflix, not them and so are making it a requirement for distribution. It doesn't do anything to prevent piracy, but it sure adds to be barrier to entry for anyone wanting to start up a Netflix competitor (want to support all of the mutually incompatible set-top boxes that all have Netflix clients? You'll need to develop a load of client apps. Of course, almost all of them can already play back DRM-free H.264...).

Re:So pirate?

[Anonymous Coward]

I am not rooted but unlocked and it affects me. Same with android pay. So rooting has nothing to do with it... it is bootloader being unlocked.

Re:So pirate?

[TheRaven64]

Who watches TV shows on their *phone*?

A lot of phones and tablets have HDMI ports (or, at least, dongles that provide an HDMI port), so you can plug them into a projector or big TV easily.

Re:So pirate?

[camperdave]

What I can't find in the pirate's waters, I wouldn't find on Netflix either. Things like "My Three Sons" or "Money to Burn"

Re:So pirate?

[93 Escort Wagon]

If they actually had any third-party content nowadays, your argument would make perfect sense.

Re:So pirate?

[pr0fessor]

My wife watches stuff on her phone all the time on trips, in the kitchen while she's cooking, or in the laundry room folding laundry but it's more like a phablet.... I couldn't do it my phone is much smaller.

Re: So pirate?

[bobmajdakjr]

Not even currently using android and this makes me want to close my account. Few weeks ago I had to reinstall chrome because of some winevine error even though it was up to date.

Re:So pirate?

[Anonymous Coward]

They have a lot of third party content, while it may not be shows you want, it doesnt negatate the fact that the majority of the content on Netflix is not produced by Netflix.

Re:So pirate?

[Potor]

One can train oneself not to care about ephemera. One can also train oneself to lead a life that has no free time, because one's life is itself a creative act.

I imagine that sounds very 'arrogant' but I'd rather live that way than to be just a consumer. Or even a consumer, period.

Re:So pirate?

[GameboyRMH]

Yarr, you're welcome to re-join the crew mateys, if ye haven't become a bunch of lilly-livered DRM-lubbers!

Re:So pirate?

[spire3661]

Everyone here knows that this is the beginning of having no control over your device at all. As time goes on, ONLY certified devices will be able to use popular services. Ads will become completely unblockable. Having root will eventually arouse as much suspicion as owning lockpicks.

Re:So pirate?

[Linsaran]

1) Who watches TV shows on their *phone*??? Honestly, I can't even imagine.

Well, anyone who uses a Chromecast, or wants to watch something while waiting for a flight, or laundry or anything else that requires not being home and sitting in one place for a while. Not to mention the throng of parents who use it to shut their kids up when they're in public.

Re: So pirate?

[christopher.andrew.c]

What is this "DVD" you speak of?

Re: So pirate?

[christopher.andrew.c]

Oh. I just have a Chromecast hooked up to my TV, and an unlocked Android handset.

Re:So pirate?

[toonces33]

I used to learn about pop culture from South Park. But that jumped the shark a few years back, and I don't really bother with it much any more. And really I stopped caring. My wife tries to tell me about someone or another, and my response is always "Whozat". If my wife wasn't a sports nut, we might have been able to cut the cord years ago. And while various leagues are starting to offer streaming of one thing or another, for the time being you are stuck paying for some sort of cable equivalent. In the long term, I can foresee people streaming and not bothering to buy the baseball/hockey/basketball/football package.

Re:So pirate?

[lgw]

You sound like an addict rationalizing his addiction. Just sayin'

Re:So pirate?

[Anonymous Coward]

While I imagine there will be a bunch of Netflix hate here, I'd assume this is at least partly to conform to licensing standards insisted on by content creators. Obviously Netflix is becoming a major content creator, so they have self-interest here too, but the less "locked down" their service, the harder it will likely be for them to get 3rd-party licensed content.

This is another fine chance for outraged slashdotters to threaten to quit again. This is the next to last straw!

Re:So pirate?

[Solandri]

1) Who watches TV shows on their *phone*??? Honestly, I can't even imagine.

Kids, when the parents want them to shut up for 3 minutes at a restaurant so they can place their order with the waitress without constantly having to yell at Billy to stop pulling Susie's hair.

2) Why does the phone need to be non-rooted? I use Netflix just fine on my Linux system, by using Google Chrome (it's the only thing I use that browser for in fact). I don't have to have a corporate-controlled OS, only a corporate-controlled DRMed browser for that one purpose. So why can't Netflix do things that way on phones for those weirdos who want to watch Netflix on a phone?

Because of Hollywood's paranoia that you're going to capture the digital stream and save a copy to rip the movie. They require the movie remain encrypted from reading, to video decode, to display. Hollywood approves two types of playback devices for DRM media (streams, Blu-rays, DVDs, etc).

• A hardware device. The manufacturer or app maker submits the device to Hollywood for approval. Hollywood looks it over, determines it's secure, and gives it their stamp of approval. This is why Netflix came out on iOS before Android. Netflix only had to submit a handful of iPhones and iPads for approval. They had to submit hundreds of Android devices for approval.
• A general purpose computing device. On these, to satisfy Hollywood, the DRM decryption and video decode has to be done inside an encrypted virtual machine. The drawback of this is that the playback program cannot use dedicated video playback hardware in the GPU - that would require the unencrypted data stream be sent to the GPU, which would then produce an unencrypted video stream. That's a no-no to Hollywood, so PCs and browsers unencrypt the video completely in software inside an encrypted virtual machine (which is why the browser players always use Flash or Silverlight, instead of HTML 5 - its the only way to create a virtual machine in a browser). The extra power consumption for this inefficient method of decoding makes this approach unfeasible for a mobile device like a phone or tablet.

If you use a phone or tablet just as an app platform, then it functions like a hardware device and there's no problem. But if you root it, you can begin using it like a general purpose computing device. Someone could conceivably write a program to intercept the unencrypted data stream the Netflix app is sending to the phone's GPU for video decode, and save a copy to effectively rip the movie. Hollywood has probably been pushing Netflix and Google to plug this hole for years. Limiting Netflix to non-rooted devices is probably Netflix's concession to satisfy Hollywood.

Re:So pirate?

[MightyMartian]

I watch like four hours a week of TV, even less for the last few weeks as I've been studying my ass off for a final. But why should I be ashamed of liking dumbass TV shows? If the alternative is being a humorless alt-right troll who gets his jollies being a sociopathic prick on the Internet, then I'll take the idiot box.

Re:So pirate?

[log0n]

Chromecast much? Chromecast and other HDMI dongles are essentially useless if you can't control from your phone.

Re:So pirate?

[lgw]

Ah, yes, those alt-right hipsters. Gotta watch out for those guys.

Better way of saying this might be "yeah, I watch a few hours of dumbass TV shows a week - I'm not proud of it, but there are far more embarrassing habits, after all."

Re:So pirate?

[Anonymous Coward]

I think it's great that Netflix has joined Apple in NOT unlocking phones.
People need to have their privacy protected. Now, if we could only get
Hulu on-board we'd have it made in the shade.

CAP === 'watchers'

Re:So pirate?

[Anonymous Coward]

Sure, but understand lack of knowledge of pop culture and current events does not make you "cool".

If one is confident in ones self, you don't need to have the approval of others based on your knowledge of "pop culture".

As for current events, pick up the newspaper(or some online variant thereof). TV news is garbage anymore.

you have cut yourself off from common cultural heritage and come off as an uneducated arrogant dick.

Hahah common cultural heritage. If cutting myself off from this so-called "heritage" because I don't give two shits about the latest in reality TV or whatever other mindless drivel that is on the TV, then I'm quite okay with that. I'm still not entirely sure how not watching mindless TV makes one uneducated.

As for anyone being an arrogant dick, perhaps you should look in the mirror.

Re:So pirate?

[the roAm]

The post you replied to literally said that a lot of set top boxes come pre-rooted. If they come with default userland as root for Android out of the factory, then they SURELY fall into the category you're convinced that they don't.

Reading comprehension is a real pain in the ass, isn't it?

Re: So pirate?

[Anonymous Coward]

You know you can watch Netflix with Firefox on Linux right? No user agent string switches or anything. Thought you'd like to know since you said you only use chrome for Netflix

Re:So pirate?

[Anonymous Coward]

And any windows 7 machine is just as easily "rooted". As is any linux distro. Are they banning those yet? Are they checking for Secure Boot enforcement yet?

If anything, all this proves is that hollywood and it's ilk are scared shitless of allowing the content on a device that the end user controls. It wasn't a problem for years until they got the ability to control what the owner could and couldn't do with the hardware they purchased. Now it's "Hollywood gets the final say. Period. Whether you consume our content or not. (Because if you say don't consume it and are not interested in it, you really mean you pirate it. After all what we make is so perfect that you simply couldn't refuse to partake of it.)"

I say good riddance. Any app that can't handle the presence of /bin/su, or the idea that the end user can PEEK and POKE your memory area to see what you are doing on their hardware, has no business on any device I own. If I can't run your app because you distrust me, I have no reason to trust you. On the contrary, I have every reason in the world to distrust you, considering that you don't want me to be able to see what you are doing. I couldn't uninstall an app like that fast enough.

Of course I realize there are morons who can't live without such apps. I just hope the fleeting moments of entertainment is worth the permanent loss of ownership (and the abuse it enables) that these morons are forcing on everyone else.

Re:So pirate?

[haruchai]

Ah, yes, those alt-right hipsters. Gotta watch out for those guys.

Just because they may not have beards or wear skinny jeans doesn't mean the right wing is hipster-free

Re:So pirate?

[jareth-0205]

1) Who watches TV shows on their *phone*??? Honestly, I can't even imagine.

Plenty really - in London I spend atleast 90 minutes per day on public transport. Doing some TV watching is a very good way of distracting from the unpleasantness of the experience...

Re:So pirate?

[SeaFox]

1) Who watches TV shows on their *phone*??? Honestly, I can't even imagine.

How about people eating lunch in a breakroom at work?

Re:So pirate?

[Anonymous Coward]

I miss 4:3 TV, both for the content and for the TV itself actually wasting less room.

TV used to be a TV, not only a movie watching machine.
For those who like watching bitches and assholes though, TV allows guys to watch boobs with plausible deniability i.e. they tell their wives they're just watching TV.

Re: So pirate?

[Anonymous Coward]

It's digital movie streaming, but from the DVD and thus without Internet spying.

You can use a PC to play it, but you need at least a Pentium II or equivalent CPU then.

Re:So pirate?

[Anonymous Coward]

That's why we don't use these stupid services, right? And that's why we support piracy and strive to kill these business models.

Re:So pirate?

[Anonymous Coward]

I figure it's not a matter of taste. It's a matter of dependency.

If you're dependent on something to tell you what to watch, what to eat, what to wear, what to listen to, that's a flaw.

The stocking decisions of a Wal*Mart, the product they choose to shelf, is a hundred times more influential than any lecture from a [diet type here].

Oops, that's wrong, outdated metrics, we're puppets more than ever and it's now a thousand times more.

I'm sure many people abandoned TV for hipstery reasons. I'll even allow "most". But I see a different problem.

Conversely, if you can say that you watch TV selectively, that you're not strung along on the "image" machine (see: music), then sure, it's a matter of taste. "It's OK to like whatever" when it's just taste.

Re:So pirate?

[Anonymous Coward]

My state allows possession, you insensitive clod! Oh, but I think "Intent to use" is still a crime if seen somewhere unscrupulous.

Certified Everything would be here NOW if they could. It won't become purely ubiquitous, people balk at their chains occasionally (see DRM) and rain praise (+profit) on the tolerable options, but your point stands.

Re:So pirate?

[SeaFox]

Android isn't just phones, it is also set top TV boxes now. Many of those devices come pre-rooted, making the entire market for those devices totally fucked in terms of Netflix now.

You mean the market of Android devices with all those piracy apps?
I wonder how many of those people are interested in being paying Netflix subscribers to begin with.

Re:So pirate?

[cayenne8]

Kids, when the parents want them to shut up for 3 minutes at a restaurant so they can place their order with the waitress without constantly having to yell at Billy to stop pulling Susie's hair.

Funny, when I was young, it only took a stern look or word from my Dad or Mom...and I knew to shut it.

Amazing what earlier ass whoopings did to instill a bit of discipline into me....and wasn't needed later in life, even at a very young age.

I guess parents just no longer have control of their offspring anymore, or forgot how to generate respect a yea...even a little fear in the kids.

Remember parents, YOU are supposed to be the one in charge and listened to an obeyed...not the other way around.

Re:So pirate?

[Anonymous Coward]

+1 to Parent. This is a dangerous trend.

Treating lack of access to root *at all* (via locked bootloaders etc.) rather than just encouraging day-to-day device use from non-root accounts, is a very slippery slope leading to, at the bottom, the removal of general-purpose computers which are actually *owned* by the purchaser. It's Richard Stallman's feared endgame come to life.

I had the displeasure of getting a nasty warning upon startup of my newly upgraded bank mobile app that my (rooted, cyanogenmodded) phone was running a 'non-approved phone provider build' or other such nonsense (which, *for now*, doesn't exit, but maybe in the future it will?). I sent feedback stating there should be an option for knowledgeable users who've intentionally loaded alternate firmware to approve once and have the app take its own fingerprint so it understands the user is in control, and there's nothing wrong. But I doubt they'll see it that way.

Re:So pirate?

[Anonymous Coward]

If beating kids into compliance is gives us self-righteous, condescending turds like you... I'll pass.

Re:So pirate?

[Anonymous Coward]

No, that is a word used by you whiny, commie, demoncrat terrorists used historically and will use. After all, you are a bunch of niggards

"noun
1. an excessively parsimonious, miserly, or stingy person.
adjective
2. niggardly; miserly; stingy."

Niggardly

"1. reluctant to give or spend; stingy; miserly.
2. meanly or ungenerously small or scanty:
a niggardly tip to a waiter." "The DNC is made up of niggardly, or small cowards."

Sounds like you whiny, commie, demoncrat terrorists to me. You "give" by taking from others then saying *you* gave. The Republicans, on the other hand, are a group of honest, hardworking, Christian Americans that are more than willing to help anyone that *needs* help, not give entitlement checks to those that are too lazy to work from taking it from those that do work. This was a trap, a trap knew demoncrats like you would fall for due to excessive knee-jerk reactions throughout the centuries. Face it, your party is finished, President Trump and the Republican Party will fix America and make America truly great again.

Re:So pirate?

[EndlessNameless]

a) Low bandwidth in crowded spaces

Netflix can cache videos for offline viewing.

b) Commuter rail, light rail and subways often do not have cellular service antenna's pointed at them

Netflix can cache videos for offline viewing.

c) Who the hell watches netflix on these stupid "3GB" caps wireless companies offer

Netflix is part of BingeOn from T-Mobile, which means it doesn't count toward the cap. If you even have one anymore---remember that everyone is rushing to offer unlimited plans again.

Also, you can download over wifi and watch later. This feature has been out for months now, and it probably a big part of the reason that the studios don't want Netflix on rooted devices.

Re:So pirate?

[jonwil]

My guess is that the requirements for the phone not being modified/rooted are tied to the Widevine DRM system, i.e. it will refuse to work on a rooted or modified or unapproved device.

Re:So pirate?

[Anonymous Coward]

Kids, when the parents want them to shut up for 3 minutes at a restaurant so they can place their order with the waitress without constantly having to yell at Billy to stop pulling Susie's hair.

Funny, when I was young, it only took a stern look or word from my Dad or Mom...and I knew to shut it.

Amazing what earlier ass whoopings did to instill a bit of discipline into me....and wasn't needed later in life, even at a very young age.

I guess parents just no longer have control of their offspring anymore, or forgot how to generate respect a yea...even a little fear in the kids.

Remember parents, YOU are supposed to be the one in charge and listened to an obeyed...not the other way around.

Funny, when my parents spanked me I started hitting back and they decided to stop rather than teach me the wrong lesson, yet still managed to maintain their authority.

Of coarse my parents are engineers with good impulse control so they did things like not give me what I wanted if I threw a tantrum (so I learned that doing so didn't work), and to be carful about making promises or threats and the one ones they did make got kept (so I learned not to to ignore them).

But I suppose if you can't be bothered to think about what you're teaching and just want an obedient child fear of violence works also.

Re:So pirate?

[Anonymous Coward]

Actually with apps like "parallel space" they won't see you have a rooted Device. That's how I get past Snapchat, Pokemon, PAD, and many others that dotnt allow rooted devices

Re:So pirate?

[Anonymous Coward]

Nope. It just means that netflix is going the same way as linear tv - away!

Re:So pirate?

[Anonymous Coward]

Who watches TV shows on their *phone*??? Honestly, I can't even imagine.

Working out at the gym while on a treadmill or bike - its quite handy. Watched many TV shows and movies I would have missed out on otherwise. I've used it on travel as well. Most smartphone screens are roughly the resolution/quality of a DVD , and in either use case I'm definitely not going for quality - just something to keep me entertained + block out other noise.

So why can't Netflix do things that way on phones for those weirdos who want to watch Netflix on a phone?

Cost - plain and simple. Prove to Netflix there is a solid business case to support these users and they'll do it.

Re:So pirate?

[Anonymous Coward]

We use T-Mobile for its Binge On program that they offered with their older round of monthly plans With Binge On we can watch as much Netlfix, etc as we want on our mobile devices (smartphones and a tablet.) We then connect to a Chromecast attached to out tv and watch on a big screen. So while I may be using a smartphone to grab the content I watch, I'm usually watching the result on a 55inch tv in the living room.

https://www.t-mobile.com/offer/binge-on-streaming-video-list.html

Re:So pirate?

[unhooked]

They blocked all of my set top devices. One vendor supplied (Cyphertv) and one I got on Amazon(Globmall), generic android. I already canceled. Not watching from my phone, or tablet. If they learn, I'll think about re upping, If not, it's $12 I'm not spending.

Re:So pirate?

[kylemonger]

Anyone who grew up watching over-the-air analog TV knows that television can be enjoyed with a picture and signal far worse than even the most pissant phone provides today. I watched a whole season of a program on a video iPod, just because the thing was portable and handy. Video and sound quality were both better than what I grew up with. For one thing, the picture was in color.

Re:So pirate?

[Grishnakh]

I don't know about you, but to me the idea of holding a device in front of my face for 1-2 hours is a no-go. It's not about the quality, it's the form factor.

Re: So pirate?

[Grishnakh]

Yeah, I remembered that afterwards; that's a new development. But thanks anyway.

I still use Chrome just because I normally use Firefox and it has a zillion tabs open so it gets slow sometimes. It seems to work better to just use Chrome since it's dedicated to Netflix on my system.

Re:So pirate?

[luther349]

its not just rooted they remove its any 3rd party device that google has not givin there blessing.

Re:So pirate?

[Grishnakh]

Cost - plain and simple. Prove to Netflix there is a solid business case to support these users and they'll do it.

I'm not talking about cost, but technical ability: on Linux (the desktop kind), I can watch Netflix now on Firefox. Control of the platform isn't necessary. Firefox also runs on Android. So why can't I just use FF to watch Netflix on Android? I don't think they ever had to do anything to make it work on Linux with Chrome and FF. It just seems like they're actively blocking rooted phones for some reason, when the only thing that should matter is the browser.

Re:So pirate?

[Grishnakh]

I wonder why: according to their website, their DRM works on Linux (and just about everything else too). They certainly don't have any control of the OS there. I do have one clue though: WIdevine is a Google company. Maybe they're doing this to try to shut down rooted Android phones because Google hates that.

Re:So pirate?

[Anonymous Coward]

Oh, you mean like LBJ? Oh wait, he was a demoncrat like you. The DNC has been the white-supremicist party since it was created. You whined before and during the civil war, thinking the north was going to take the slaves away, and even seceded from the union as you continued to whine. Then the civil right movement came and LBJ said he would get those "nigg3rs" to vote demoncrat for the next 200 years. Guess what, it was through entitlement programs so they would become lazy, and quite a few did and now are voting demoncrat because they are afraid of losing their entitlement checks. So if anyone is racist it is you and your party. The only way the country would have become fucked is if Shrillary would have been elected.

Re: So pirate?

[Miamicanes]

Exactly. AFAIK, a phone being rooted has ZERO necessary impact on the ability of users to *COPY* DRM'ed video, because the GPU *itself* handles the key exchange. All the OS does is ferry encrypted data between the network stack and GPU.

It's been that way for almost a decade now, ever since Vista introduced 'protected video path' requirements. Even if a chipset isn't for PCs, chipmakers bake support for PVP into the silicon *just in case* someone wants to use that chipset in a device running Windows.

Ultimately, this isn't about users being able to PIRATE & COPY video, it's about being able to force them to wach it a specific way (ie, preventing users from skipping commercials... Protected Video Path prevents copying to other devices, but doesn't prevent pre-buffering or fast forward/rewind by users). As fashionable as it is to vilify Microsoft, they actually made a point of designing PVP to restrict copying without restricting the user's CONTROL of video playback).

Re: So pirate?

[Anonymous Coward]

Fuck off, ADL troll. Go back to uglying up Zerohedge. You're not wanted around here.

Re: So pirate?

[Anonymous Coward]

Avast, matey! Where can I git one of them thar "piracy" apps? I love me booty and plunder, but all that swashbuckling is hard work! Tell me there's an app for that, and maybe I won't make you walk the plank.

Re:So pirate?

[Anonymous Coward]

I stopped playing Fate/Grand Order when I found they banned rooted phones. The game itself is very large in size at 2GB, and because LG are products of multiple generations of incest, I had to root my phone to properly mount an SD card as an internal storage (along with making accessibility changes). Quoth the game - 404.

I had already put money into it, so this is a serious slap in the face. I have the right to have admin access to all of my hardware, and companies are punishing me for that. This is akin to banning people from your website because of the windows theme they use.

Re:So pirate?

[omglolbah]

Especially nice if you travel a lot... insert into hotel TV and boooom

Re:So pirate?

[Anonymous Coward]

You should look up the legality of lockpicks. Only one state heavily regulates them, and in about 42 of them the state must prove intent to commit a criminal act.

Re: So pirate?

[silentcoder]

Apparently the alt-right hipsters prefer Tiki-torches. At least thats what Spencer and crowd brought to a protest last week. Apparently statues of traitors really matter to those guys.

Re: So pirate?

[haruchai]

Rumor was some were chanting "Russia is our friend"????
Say what?? That makes no sense at all.

Re:So pirate?

[spire3661]

I didnt say it was illegal, only that having them arouses suspicion. If i know you are into lockpicking and my house gets broken into with no signs of forced entry, guess who is now a suspect until ruled out?

Re:So pirate?

[Anonymous Coward]

A VERY significant percentage of teens and early 20's kids use their phones as their primary computing and media devices, even if they own laptops or have access to TVs. My daughter and her boyfriend are 25 are prime examples of this. Why this is happening is different matter...

Re:So pirate?

[david_thornley]

If you're not a consumer of some things, you're dead.

If you're living a life that's a creative act with no free time, you're dead. (Sleep is a necessity.)

If you don't care about ephemera, you're dead. (That car won't be speeding down that street for more than a few minutes; hence, ephemera).

Re:So pirate?

[Wootery]

I really don't know what you're trying to say. Are you unaware that Netflix allows download-to-view-later on Android (as I just said)?

Re:So pirate?

[Anonymous Coward]

Netflix works because it is easier than piracy. Ejecting the very small number of rooted android users won't stop people ripping Netflix content when you can still watch the movies on a computer...

This is America. You're supposed to rip off people who are paying you money.

Re:So pirate?

[poofmeisterp]

Everyone here knows that this is the beginning of having no control over your device at all. As time goes on, ONLY certified devices will be able to use popular services. Ads will become completely unblockable. Having root will eventually arouse as much suspicion as owning lockpicks.

You're correct. History repeats.

Consumers will hack, consumers will boycott, consumers will steal. One company(tm) will offer something the others don't. They'll get the majority of market share. The other companies will cave. I think they pre-thought this all out and aren't bothering with it up front. Windows 10 is questionable, but that's a different beast, different topic.

Re:So pirate?

[Anonymous Coward]

A big fat ZERO!!! Stand alone.apks and Kodi 3rd party add-ons are how it's done. Netflix???? What the fuck is that for anyway?

Time to start saving

[SurajBajracharya]

... $9.99 more every month!

Re:Time to start saving

[TWX]

Yup. I finally found a movie on Crackle that didn't work well with commercials, the Peter Ustinov version of Death on the Nile. The commercial breaks destroyed the building suspense as various potential murderers were identified in the rising action of the second act.

Everything else I've watched on Crackle is acceptable even with intermittent commercials. I also get off the couch more and actually do things.

Re:Time to start saving

[Anonymous Coward]

You won't be missed.

Re:Time to start saving

[Anonymous Coward]

You also won't be missed.

Re:Time to start saving

[Anonymous Coward]

Me neither. Cause I already don't use it. Haha.

But it's rooted...

[Anonymous Coward]

...surely you can make the Netflix app think it's on a walled-garden phone. You have root rights!

Re:But it's rooted...

[green1]

You'd think,

But for all the brilliant developers out there, nobody has ever created any way of bypassing root detection on phones.

You'd think it would be a no brainer, sandbox the app, and feed it the inputs it wants so it thinks it's on a stock device, but somehow nobody has ever done that.

Instead there have been hundreds of different services that pretend to hide the fact that your phone is rooted, but not one of them ever works.

Why can't someone develop an app sandbox? a virtual machine of some form? sure it may slow the app down a bit, but with the power of today's phones, I can't imagine it would be enough to matter.

Re:But it's rooted...

[HornWumpus]

You are 'someone'...do it.

Re: But it's rooted...

[Anonymous Coward]

The Oneplus 3 phone I'm typing this on has Resurrection Remix Nougat 7.1.2 and is rooted.

Netflix is on here and was last updated on 2nd of May, v4.16.1 build 15145.

Still works and I haven't hidden it from checking if the phone is rooted.

Re:But it's rooted...

[ctilsie242]

There used to be an app called RootCloak that worked on the XPosed framework, which when given an application list, would prevent a program from seeing if SuperSU was present or a su binary was installed in the usual directories. However, both the XPosed framework and RootCloak have not been updated for any new release of Android. I used to use this to allow SoftCard to run ages ago.

Re:But it's rooted...

[behrooz0az]

It can be done with proot "easily" and will probably only take a few days of work to polish everything up.
I've just never felt the need to do it; I'm sure there are a lot of other people more qualified than me that feel the same way.

Re:But it's rooted...

[green1]

Sure, RootCloak used to exist (still does actually), but it never actually hid the fact that you were rooted from any applications, even when it was brand new. There are dozens of those sorts of apps, not one of them has ever actually worked.

The only way to actually win this one is to stop trying to hide one or two indicators that your device is rooted, and start running these stupid apps inside a container that isn't rooted. A fake phone within your real one.

Re:But it's rooted...

[green1]

And here is where opensource software completely misses the boat. It is always assumed that anyone with any ideas is ALSO able to implement their idea, including every bit of knowledge required, and all the time and resources. If that person can't it's assumed that the idea itself isn't worth trying.

Hate to tell you this, but just because someone can't implement their own idea, doesn't mean the idea itself is without merit.

Virtual machines have existed quite successfully for many many years, and done correctly, the software running on them doesn't know the difference. Are you saying that for some reason the exact same solution couldn't exist on an Android device? If so, why not?

Don't just imply that if I can't implement the idea it can't be done, explain what's wrong with the idea.

Re:But it's rooted...

[ctilsie242]

I really wish phones offered container or VM functionality. That way, I can keep sets of contacts separate, and keep work stuff separate from home stuff. Not hard to do, because the ARM CPU offers "worlds" which are essentially containers... but tend to not be used.

Re:But it's rooted...

[hackel]

What are you talking about? Magisk works just fine.

It's obviously going to be a continuous cat and mouse game until the corporations finally just give up and realise they're spending millions of dollars to defeat an extremely small minority of users. Imagine if they tried to do this for Windows PCs...there would be a riot.

Re:But it's rooted...

[hackel]

It's pretty trivial to create separate user profiles on Android, actually. It does exactly what you are looking for.

Re: But it's rooted...

[ActionDesignStudios]

Samsung Knox is a step in that direction.

Re:But it's rooted...

[HornWumpus]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?...

Idea's are a dime a dozen. If you had bothered to look, you would see there are attempts to do, more or less, what you describe. Learn to Google.

Re:But it's rooted...

[wed128]

And here is where opensource software completely misses the boat. It is always assumed that anyone with any ideas is ALSO able to implement their idea, including every bit of knowledge required, and all the time and resources.

No, it assumes that anyone *can*. Your idea is a fine one, it's just that nobody with the knowledge to fix the problem has the same itch that you do. You're demanding that "somebody" do something, when *you can!*, and if you can't or won't, then it's within your power to hire someone.

Re: But it's rooted...

[AvitarX]

TFS mentions Netflix 5.0

You probably didn't get the upgrade because your phone is not compatible.

Re:But it's rooted...

[green1]

They ARE trying to do it for Windows PCs, the only difference is that they haven't yet succeeded there. It's only a matter of time.

As for Magisk... sure... it "works"... if what you're trying to do is make your life more complicated without stopping your applications from detecting that your phone is rooted. I've used it. It works a miniscule fraction of the time. Of course that's far better than anyone else has managed yet, but it's not enough to be able to use your rooted phone for apps from overbearing controlling companies.

Re:But it's rooted...

[fluffernutter]

Necessity is the mother of invention. Maybe this will make it necessary enough for someone to do it. Or at least have it work for Netflix.

Re: But it's rooted...

[fluffernutter]

So why the hell upgrade ever?

Re:But it's rooted...

[hankwang]

It's difficult to do because Google provides this root detection service (Google Safety Net). That 'snet' program is self-updating and probably runs with elevated permissions. Whenever a developer releases an easy-to-use and somewhat popular root-hiding tool, Google will implement a tailored detection scheme for that particular tool and silently roll it out.

Re:But it's rooted...

[Anonymous Coward]

"nobody has ever created any way of bypassing root detection on phones."

They generally check the path for the existance of the su binary, and look for the presence of the SuperSU apps (and similar).

"Instead there have been hundreds of different services that pretend to hide the fact that your phone is rooted, but not one of them ever works."

Software that doesn't address the "root" cause isn't going to fix anything. It's not hard to be stealth (I've done it), but the Android security model is such that apps can't manipulate each other particularly well (by design).

A stealth root program is going to need to itself be root (in order to work), and will likely break rooted apps not specifically designed to work with it. You could try doing injection and intercepting the filesystem calls (something like Xposed), but there's also the matter of C code.

Basically, what you want is an Android rootkit. If you make one of those, good luck keeping it in the Google market.

Re:But it's rooted...

[Anonymous Coward]

And here is where opensource software completely misses the boat. It is always assumed that anyone with any ideas is ALSO able to implement their idea, including every bit of knowledge required, and all the time and resources.

The idea is that a person implements it themselves or pays somebody else to do it. But people dont want to pay for Free Software (despite gratis not being the point) so that is why successful free software is driven by corporate interests, be that Blender (Disney/Pixar) or Linux (RedHat) because they are the ones paying developers to do what they want. In consumer software for general end users this just doesn't happen, there isnt a viable funding model so it ends up being licensing closed source for a fee or embedding with advertisements.

Re: But it's rooted...

[Anonymous Coward]

Because it has bugfixes and ultimately the service will stop working with older clients.

Re: But it's rooted...

[Anonymous Coward]

It upgraded itself 10 minutes ago to v5.0.5 build 16199 and it still works on this rooted Oneplus 3.

I can stop Netflix from knowing the device is rooted in the Magisk Manager app but I haven't done so.

Very odd. I'm in the UK if that makes any difference?

Re:But it's rooted...

[green1]

Then stop trying to hide root, and start running the apps in a virtual phone on the real phone. The virtual phone wouldn't be rooted, so there's no root to detect.

All these developers so far have avoided any sandboxing of apps and instead rely on hiding one or two telltale signs. They need to step up and really put the app in an environment that it thinks is a real un-rooted phone, but that is really just a software container.

Re:But it's rooted...

[green1]

No, I want a virtual phone within my physical phone. One that is 100% stock and un-rooted, just for these apps.

Unlocking?

[fred6666]

What does SIM-unlocking the device has to do with this?
Also, will Netflix allows me to watch it on my "rooted" PC? Is there any PC which is not "rooted" which would satisfy Netflix?

Re: Unlocking?

[Anonymous Coward]

Boot loader unlocked.

Not carrier unlocked. ...I would hope at least.

Re:Unlocking?

[MightyMartian]

If Netflix wants to stay in good with the content providers, it needs to make these shows of strength. This affects such a small group that it's worth a few grumpy rooted phone owners just to show Hollywood they mean business.

Re:Unlocking?

[Anonymous Coward]

It doesn't, this is for people who completely replace the OS with cyanogen or some such. Summary is misleading.

Re:Unlocking?

[fred6666]

they really believe people are going to use smartphones to rip shows?

Re:Unlocking?

[tepples]

they really believe people are going to use smartphones to rip shows?

Even if Netflix doesn't believe this, one or more publishers licensing motion pictures to Netflix is likely to believe this.

Re:Unlocking?

[Anonymous Coward]

They didn't say unlocked, they said rooted and uncertified by google, meaning the devices ROM is potentially custom and not signed by google. You do understand what rooted means right?

"Also, will Netflix allows me to watch it on my "rooted" PC?"

Eep, cleary you don't. In unix land, the "administrator" is "root". To "root" a phone means you've likely flashed a custom bootloader onto the phone to allow you to have full ROOT access (read full administrator access). you can root a phone and still retain the google certified OS, but since the bootloader has been modified, you are no longer on a supported device as far as netflix is concerned.

This has nothing to do with a pc.

Re: Unlocking?

[Anonymous Coward]

This is true according to my experience. I have an unlocked (carrier, but not bootloader) phone which I was able to install Netflix on just now. The wording in the title and summary could be better.

Re:Unlocking?

[wbr1]

This is not carrier unlocking, but bootloader unlocking - IE not requireing a signed bootloader.

Re:Unlocking?

[thegarbz]

Also, will Netflix allows me to watch it on my "rooted" PC?

Netflix doesn't have an app on PC and no, the answer you're looking for is no. They will not give you 4k content unless you follow very strict rules as to what software you use to log into their website.

Re:Unlocking?

[Anonymous Coward]

Can a phone vendor provide a signed bootloader for you to flash, so your phone can both be rooted/have full root access while running a signed bootloader?

Because, next step of comparing this to a PC would be the Secure Boot UEFI system where you can boot e.g. a signed Ubuntu or Red Hat (or even some Windows version) that still allows you to do about anything you want.

Re:Unlocking?

[fred6666]

Sure there is, it's called a web browser. Plus there is also a Windows Store application.

Re:Unlocking?

[thegarbz]

Windows store applications are locked down and containerised and suffer from the same problem. Your computer needs to meet some very specific requirements to get full use of Netflix content, and my entire point was that NO you DON'T get a choice in your web browser or what goes on in the system. To get access to all Netflix has to offer you need to use a very specific browser, in a very specific OS, on a very specific Intel platform.

They are most definitely curating what you have access to on the PC.

Re:Unlocking?

[fred6666]

Get over it. You have access to most, probably 99% of Netflix in any browser. Altough you might need a plugin, I didn't check. And yes, you PC can be "rooted" (admin rights) and it still work, with both browser and windows application.

False Advertising -- Where is FCC & FTC?

[Anonymous Coward]

Netflix ads did not mention this limitation, all of us who signed up for NetFlix and were using it on our phones will be blocked out -- isn't that intentional deception advertising and having users pay for something that then does not work. Hey FTC --- please investigate and take some action!

Re:False Advertising -- Where is FCC & FTC?

[Anonymous Coward]

The FCC and FTC do not care. Especially not under the Trump administration.

Netflix provides an app that can be installed on working devices. If the device does not work, and not available in the app store, obviously you can't make it work.

This is the app store recognizing that the device is rooted, not the netflix app.

Idiocy

[Chas]

Yeah, because if I want to steal content, the FIRST device I think of for doing so is MY FUCKING PHONE.

Riiiight.

Never mind that a desktop (or even a laptop) PC is orders of magnitude more powerful and possesses FAR more options for absconding with the content...

Re:Idiocy

[green1]

This is a common theme. Many programs won't run on a rooted phone, but happily run on a computer with admin rights. Unfortunately the most likely "solution" to this obvious double standard isn't for them to start working on rooted phones, it's for users to stop having admin rights on their computers.

Re:Idiocy

[HornWumpus]

Even admins, should not routinely login as admin or equivalent. Applications/services/daemons that need admin, get admin to only the resources they need. Spend the time.

Re:Idiocy

[green1]

You do realize that it's EXACTLY the same on a rooted phone right?

Re:Idiocy

[Anonymous Coward]

Android runs on more than just FUCKING PHONES, dipshit.

Re:Idiocy

[Chas]

Okay, phones and even less useful tablets.

Happy now Mr. AC Fuckface?

Re:Idiocy

[Anonymous Coward]

The phone is the new main computing device for a large portion of the population. Desktops are for people in the field or people that work in a digital production field of some kind.

Re:Idiocy

[Anonymous Coward]

How about YOUR FUCKING TABLET.

It's not just phones... as you so succinctly want it to be. And Tablets are very much capable of watching TV/Netflix on the go.

The fact that you don't do it doesn't make you special.

Re:Idiocy

[Anonymous Coward]

You really are in your own little bubble, aren't you?

I bet you're FUN at parties, sport.

Re:Idiocy

[Chas]

Sorry, were you speaking to an adult here?

Re:Idiocy

[Chas]

Nobody's talking about merely "watching" dumbass.

We're talking about the full piracy process.

Which, let's face it, is far easier to execute on non-phone/non-tablet/non-phablet Wintel systems that aren't running Android.

Cogitate on this.

Re:Idiocy

[Anonymous Coward]

Okay, phones and even less useful tablets.

And TVs.

Re:Idiocy

[david_thornley]

Admin mode for Windows is not the same as full control. There's stuff Microsoft locked down for the purposes of enforcing DRM.

Re:Idiocy

[green1]

Actually, it IS the same as full control. Find me a file on the system that I can't delete or modify (ignoring that it may break things) .

If you're saying that sometimes individual apps lock out your control of various things, that's entirely different, and there's nothing stopping someone from writing that same type of app and using it on a rooted phone. The situation is 100% identical. In both cases the user has the same amount of control of the system.

Hahaha, idiots.

[DatbeDank]

Barclays did the same thing by blocking rooted devices from running their banking software (crap bank, different story). Geniuses on XDA took care of that a long time ago and i'm pretty sure they'll do it again!

Re:Hahaha, idiots.

[Tukz]

As the article says, the app works just fine. You just can't install it from Google Play Store. No need for XDA to take care of anything.

Re:Hahaha, idiots.

[Anonymous Coward]

it already works fine if you use magisk/magisk hide. Same with online banking, pokemon go, sky go etc.

Re:Hahaha, idiots.

[hackel]

...for now. Judging by their statement, I wouldn't expect that to continue indefinitely.

Re:Hahaha, idiots.

[jez9999]

Geniuses on XDA took care of that a long time ago and i'm pretty sure they'll do it again!

Do you have a link to that? I came across this problem a while back and XDA had nothing. I'm not even sure how the app detects that the phone is rooted.

Re: Hahaha, idiots.

[Anonymous Coward]

I used to do app security for a major bank, and had almost weekly arguments with middle managers who thought preventing our banking app from running on rooted devices was a good idea. Fortunately, *my* boss & *his* boss agreed with me 100%... allowing a securely-delivered app from Google Play to run on a potentially-compromised device is MUCH better than having users obtain hacked copies of the .apk file from unauthorized sources... which users WILL DO if you make it the only way they can use their rooted device to do banking.

Re: Hahaha, idiots.

[Anonymous Coward]

https://forum.xda-developers.com/apps/magisk

System Requirements

[danbert8]

Their support people didn't know this and they didn't list it in their requirements, but I'm guessing this is why I've never been able to download shows for offline viewing on my OnePlus One. Cyanogen is probably blocked from that functionality... I guess the Netflix app is pointless for me now because if I have WiFi, I'm watching on my laptop screen and I'm sure as hell not going to watch Netflix using mobile data.

Re:System Requirements

[TypoNAM]

They even stopped supporting devices like the first generation amazon FireTV Stick as won't show up in app search and going directly on amazon's appstore website says both netflix apps are incompatible with it. But of course netflix's support site doesn't mention this. Along with them only allowing up to 720p on Firefox, these arbitrary changes netflix has been doing is making me reconsider keeping my subscription.

Seriously?

[Tyr07]

I rooted my android so I can run special bluetooth drivers to work with some controllers.

Oh netflix, go on, make it easier to get content from sources other than you..will work so well..

Re:Seriously?

[tepples]

Workaround:

1. Buy two Android devices.
2. Root one.
3. Install controller drivers on the rooted one.
4. Install Netflix app on the unrooted one.

It's like the Wii console: Nintendo didn't include DVD Video support because it figured that people who were about to buy a Wii already owned several DVD Video players.

Re:Seriously?

[Anonymous Coward]

"Hey guys, check out this sweet life hack. Want to run Netflix but also want to root? All you have to do is not root. Then you can run Netflix. Then you can buy another, separate item and root that. But it won't have mobile data unless you want to pay for a separate plan.

If my awesome hack is useful to you, please consider using the donate bottom to the right. Thanks!"

Re:Seriously?

[mrbester]

Other workaround:

1. Unroot SU
2. Root with Magisk to hide status from Netflix app
3. ???
4. Profit!

Re:Seriously?

[green1]

Yeah, 'cuz we all want to carry TWO phones around because some idiot in hollywood thinks that this will have any affect at all on copyright infringement... yeah... sure...

I have a better idea. If they don't want to sell us the product, we can stop buying it.

Re:Seriously?

[Anonymous Coward]

sod that root with magisk run neflix on your rooted device simples.

Re:Seriously?

[Tukz]

Or install Netflix from a secondary source.

Anyone who rooted their android device, will know how to do that anyway.
The only thing they are archiving is forcing people to use a potentially harmful unverified .apk instead of the offical package in the store.

Re:Seriously?

[thegarbz]

I rooted my Android phone to fix the ANT+ modem that the vendor broke with a software update of their own but the community at XDA managed to get going on their releases.

Re:Seriously?

[drinkypoo]

It's like the Wii console: Nintendo didn't include DVD Video support because it figured that people who were about to buy a Wii already owned several DVD Video players.

I presume that Nintendo didn't include DVD support because it would have cost more and at least some percentage of Wii purchases were cost-driven.

Re:Seriously?

[tepples]

Or more precisely, the projected cost-driven purchases by people who already owned a perfectly good DVD player exceeded the projected cost-driven purchases by people who wanted to avoid paying for both a DVD player and a game console.

Re:Seriously?

[drinkypoo]

Or more precisely, the projected cost-driven purchases by people who already owned a perfectly good DVD player exceeded the projected cost-driven purchases by people who wanted to avoid paying for both a DVD player and a game console.

I don't think that's how the math worked. I think it was "how much cheaper do we have to be than the competitors before we attract people who make final purchasing decisions based on price". DVD support would have required only minor changes to the optical drive to improve its longevity, and actually developing a DVD player app, and of course paying the licensing fees which I suspect was the single largest driver of the decision. If the competition had charged that much more (however much the amount at which Nintendo balked) they might have thrown it in simply to catch sales from those people who want a converged device. The Wii would have been one of the smallest DVD players on the market; its size actually compares favorably with the smaller end of the DVD player market today, and it certainly was competitive on that basis at the time.

Re:Seriously?

[green1]

I wonder if Magisk would work in this case? I highly doubt it. Magisk hasn't stopped any of my other apps from detecting root, why would this be any different?

Re:Seriously?

[Blaskowicz]

I know you're well intentioned and a crappy Android device might be not much to many people.

Yet I can't refrain from this.
What if you're toilet is completely clogged, all your toilets are unworkable but you need to take a dump?

Workaround :

1. Buy your neighbor's house.
2. Kick them out.
3. When you want to take a crap, go to your new house next door.
4. Keep using your original house for all other purposes.

Re:Seriously?

[Tyr07]

Yes I could always spend even more money than getting it from other sources, cancelling netflix and paying even less money...

You also need to keep in mind you're comparing apples to oranges. I didn't complain that my android didn't support the device I wanted to use directly. I found away to access /my/ device that /I/ paid for therefore /own/ the hardware, and enabled a way to use it the way /I/ want.

Since it's /mine/ I should have the simple right to do that. Punishing me and disabling features for it is crap and we all know it, only corporate shills would invite that to be the norm and "like it".

Imagine if you purchased a wrench and used it to tighten a bolt that wasn't certified so they disabled your wrench so you couldn't use it anymore.
Sounds absolutely crazy, except that is exactly what they're doing with digital equipment, but people don't realize it fully as they don't fully understand technology (but do a wrench) and just let it slide. It's crap.

Hollywood

[OldMugwump]

Keep in mind that Netflix needs contracts with Hollywood studios to get the rights to movies. Undoubtedly they've been pressured into this by Hollywood. I suspect NF knows this is stupid, but what can they do?

Re:Hollywood

[Anonymous Coward]

Don't blame Hollywood, more likely this evil requirement is coming from Google. Google is the one which benefits the most from this FUD.

As Nancy Reagan would say...

[__aaclcg7560]

Just say NO to Android phones.

Re:As Nancy Reagan would say...

[Anonymous Coward]

If you don't want to exercise the option of rooting, you don't have to.

I'll take "I can but choose not to" over "I can't, and thank god because I might hurt myself" any day. Some people belong in padded rooms and helmets, though.

Fuck this shit.

[Bartles]

I though it was odd that suddenly Netflix disappeared from the play store. I just have a tablet running CM12, and had to download from apkmirror. This is a stupid move. I'll just watch more on Amazon.

Laptop in a restaurant

[tepples]

if I have WiFi, I'm watching on my laptop screen

Do you carry your laptop everywhere you go? If not, you might be in a restaurant or whatever with Wi-Fi but no laptop. (If so, you're probably like me.)

and I'm sure as hell not going to watch Netflix using mobile data.

T-Mobile USA has a promotion called Binge On, which lets video stream providers apply at no charge to have their SD streams exempted from the cap. Amazon, YouTube, Netflix, Hulu, HBO, and Sling are among the participating video providers.

Re:Laptop in a restaurant

[Anonymous Coward]

Why the hell do you need to watch TV shows in a restaurant. What the hell is wrong with being alone with your own thoughts if you are eating alone. Or if you are eating with others, why not enjoy the company of the people that you are with.

What the hell has happened to people that they can't survive with the constant drip of TV shows everywhere they go.

Go outside, look around, enjoy living real life, not reality TV.

No wonder why so many of my fellow Americans are the size of a 1970s era Buick.

Re:Laptop in a restaurant

[Grishnakh]

Do you carry your laptop everywhere you go? If not, you might be in a restaurant or whatever with Wi-Fi but no laptop.

Yes, but that would mean watching a movie or a TV show on my phone, which isn't ever going to happen. I honestly can't imagine why anyone would want this. Maybe for a 9+" tablet, but that's a bit more like carrying your laptop around.

Re:Laptop in a restaurant

[squiggleslash]

You don't. I don't. My daughter does (my phone's 5" screen isn't much smaller than those car DVD players anyway, and I can wedge it between the headrest and the main part of my wife's passenger seat while she watches The Cat In The Hat Knows A Lot About That*, or Sid the Science Kid), and apparently a lot of younger adults do too. And that's fine. The entire world doesn't have to revolve around my preferences, there's room for everyone on this fragile planet of our's.

* Yes, that's really its name. It's an education show on PBS and Netflix where the Dr Seuss's most famous creation leads kids on various excursions to learn about everything from planets to bees.

Netflix can survive without the tech savvy

[sqorbit]

My mother-in-law doesn't care what device she uses, nor does she know the difference between iOS and Android. If you had to have a conversation about a "rooted" device it would probably be painful. Netflix major push is it's own created content and major TV shows and producers. The want control over their content. This is watched by everyone and available on smart tv's, roku, Xbox, iPads, etc. Netflix can piss off some people who are using their devices in more technical ways and it will never touch their bottom line. This move will though make those producing the content happier because they can control the content. You can't really argue with a good business move.

Bah!

[therealspacebug]

Bye bye Netflix. Welcome back torrents.

Re:Bah!

[green1]

It's no good, their 100% foolproof plan of blocking rooted phones has completely cut off any source for those torrents!

ok... I tried... but I just couldn't type that with a straight face.

Hi my name is netflix

[Anonymous Coward]

Good thing I'm smart enough to get my own secure Android running.

Now I guess I'll just cancel Netflix and use these other free services.

Sorry Netflix your originals are cool but I think you forgot why I started using your service in the first place (as far back as when you terminated our 8.99 for 2 Blu Ray and unlimited streaming agreement because you wanted more money for stuff like making originals).

Netflix slowly became the thing I was trying to get away from, and now it's time to jump ship. It's 2017, another nicer streaming cruise ship will pick my business up tomorrow.

Hide My Root

[ArhcAngel]

Will Hide My Root not work in this situation? I guess if it is looking at an unlocked bootloader it may not matter.

Re:Hide My Root

[green1]

Hide my root hasn't worked in any other situation, why would this be different?

I have a half dozen apps I'd like to run, but can't because my phone is rooted, I've tried dozens of different root hiding apps, none have ever allowed even a single one of those apps to run.

I don't however want to run any of them badly enough to give up:
- changing my resolution to something that doesn't think I'm trying to use my 5" screen from across the living room. I'm not blind!
- ad blocking
- firewalls

Newsflash, not one of these apps is worth enough to me to destroy the rest of the user experience on my phone. (Ignore for the fact that none of the 3 items I listed above should require advanced hacking of your device to accomplish!)

LOL

[Anonymous Coward]

Trust the "Entertainment Industry" to make themselves irrelevant.

Opium for the brain dead, content with without consequence or value. Sane people stopped caring about "TV", as it were, decades ago. All that are left are the drooling dredge who just desperately need some distraction from their empty lives or else someone to look down on in order to feel superior themselves.

Entertainment is pathetic, and it's remaining consumers even more so.

Re:LOL

[camperdave]

Cable cutters, vegans, and flat Earthers. Who needs them?

Not good for security

[Tukz]

The only thing this does is forcing rooted android users to install Netflix from unofficial installers.

If you can root your phone, you know how to install .apk packages without Google Play Store. They won't be able to find a verified package.

Re:Not good for security

[ledow]

It's not the only thing it does.

It also makes people just stop using Netflix.

Re:Not good for security

[green1]

We've been debating killing Netflix for a while now, as there's plenty of content I can watch on the big screen at home without it, but the recurring theme is that it's the only legal way we can watch stuff on our phones when we're not home (and as difficult as the content providers make it, we do try to do things the legal way, even if it would be far more convenient not to). If Netflix is going to stop doing that, then it stops having any value to me. And no, I'm not giving up my ad blocker, my firewall, and my resolution settings just to be able to watch Netflix on occasion, it's just not worth that much to me.

Re:Doesn't matter...

[Grishnakh]

why would I want anything that would actually encourage me to watch MORE television and as a result, eat MORE crap, and get lest exercise?

Assuming you meant "less exercise", do you spend all your free time doing exercise? What about when it's raining or storming outside?

Not that I spend much time watching movies or TV (I don't have a TV, just my computer, which I sometimes watch Netflix on), but while I like cycling and hiking, I don't do those things if it's pouring rain or ridiculously hot or cold outside, and sometimes I like to just watch an episode of something in the evening before I go to sleep. I sure as hell am not going to go take a bike ride at 11PM.

Kodi boxes

[Comboman]

I don't think this is targeting the small number of people with rooted Android phones; it's targeting the large (and growing) number of people who use Android-OS-based TV boxes running Kodi with unauthorized streaming plug-ins (a.k.a. "Kodi Boxes").

Re:Kodi boxes

[Anonymous Coward]

Psst. Those people probably aren't using their Kodi boxes to watch Netflix.

Re: Kodi boxes

[Anonymous Coward]

I have Netflix on my rooted kodi box, I guess I will just pirate everything now. I haven't pirated in long time either.

Re:Kodi boxes

[Anonymous Coward]

I was able to find an APK and install Netflix on my rooted phone in less than 5 minutes. The only people this will impact are those with pre-rooted devices, like you mentioned, that have no idea how to side-load apps.

Re: Kodi boxes

[Anonymous Coward]

As long as you keep your subscription Netflix doesn't care. This is purely to appease third-party content-creators.

Re:Kodi boxes

[swillden]

I was able to find an APK and install Netflix on my rooted phone in less than 5 minutes.

Does it contain malware? Do you know? How?

Re:Kodi boxes

[Anonymous Coward]

I doubt that the Netflix decision has anything to do with Kodi considering that Kodi has nothing to do with rooted devices. I installed Kodi on my Sony TV with all of those plugins. Root permissions are not required.

Re:Kodi boxes

[Anonymous Coward]

You know the answer to all three of your questions because the APK's signature should still be intact and verifiy as being signed by Netflix, Inc.

If you don't still don't trust the APK distributor you are more than welcome to download the apk and verify its signature still matches official versions yourself.

Re:Kodi boxes

[Anonymous Coward]

You mean I just have to google "Netflix apk" and not have to worry about it? Damn that was hard!

Re:Kodi boxes

[swillden]

You know the answer to all three of your questions because the APK's signature should still be intact and verifiy as being signed by Netflix, Inc.

Uh huh, and how does the average user verify that signature?

Re:Kodi boxes

[Anonymous Coward]

I agree.

But if you have a TV box with Kodi they are forcing you to stream pirated content because your legitimate subscription will not work! This is highly stupid!

Re:Kodi boxes

[n329619]

The average user wouldn't be rooting their phone, so the average user wouldn't need to verify any signature.

Back to topic, if a user needs to verify that the app isn't malware, all they need to do is
a. officially install it on another phone, backup the apk and install it on the rooted phone
b. unroot the phone, install the app and re-root the phone

Re:Kodi boxes

[swillden]

The average user wouldn't be rooting their phone, so the average user wouldn't need to verify any signature.

Back to topic, if a user needs to verify that the app isn't malware, all they need to do is a. officially install it on another phone, backup the apk and install it on the rooted phone b. unroot the phone, install the app and re-root the phone

Obviously we're speaking of the average person who roots their phone... and the average rooter will not know they even need to bother with this. We're not talking about the people who post the how-to's on XDA, we're talking about the much larger number of people who read them and follow them step by step, and are baffled and stopped in their tracks if anything doesn't work as expected.

The average rooter will download the APK from some random web site, just as the AC up-thread did. They will not use Java keytool to verify the signature and to extract the signing certificate and verify that it's the one used by Netflix. This is how malware spreads in the Android ecosystem.

Collateral Damage: Developer Edition Phones

[Anonymous Coward]

So, apparently those of us on developer edition phones are now not compatible with Netflix. Thanks for that.

So what about those cheap tablets out there?

[SB5407]

Something I have first hand experience with - a family member got a cheap Android tablet and it came pre-rooted. This is very common. What will happen to all the people who have cheap tablets that come pre-rooted?

Re:So what about those cheap tablets out there?

[AvitarX]

People that already have them won't notice that they don't have the newest version, and people that buy them in the future will blame the super cheap tablets.

Goodby, Netflix. Hello, Plex.

[sremick]

Goodby, Netflix. Hello, Plex.

Sorry, Netflix... but your greedy paranoia doesn't win above my need and right to use my purchased device how I wish, access all my files and data, back up my files, reinstate missing features that the carrier decided to cripple out, uninstall malicious and undesirable bloatware, install updated firmware when my carrier/mfr decides to abandon the model, and so on.

Plex works better anyway and on more clients.

not me!

[AndyKron]

Good thing I don't give a rat's ass about netfux. Fuck Apple too.

Waiting to be picked up

[tepples]

What the hell is wrong with being alone with your own thoughts if you are eating alone.

Being alone with one's thoughts for 45 minutes until the next bus comes can become a waste of time, and the restaurant's dining room has better Wi-Fi reception than the bus hut.

Re:Waiting to be picked up

[Anonymous Coward]

Being alone with one's thoughts for 45 minutes until the next bus comes can become a waste of time

What on earth did we do before this! Watching TV is even more of a waste of time. Try reading a book at least.

No to Netflix

[Anonymous Coward]

My phone belongs to me, and I will not relinquish control over it. If Netflix refuses to work with us, then I have to say goodbye to Netflix.

as long as it's ok to install on carrier unlocked

[Joe_Dragon]

as long as it's ok to install on carrier unlocked phones they should not have to make it a big deal. More is better but under trump don't hope for more.

Uh oh

[Anonymous Coward]

If Netflix continues down this path, as a paying customer, I will cancel my service.

They need to figure out their own security such that it can work on any device.

But I don't have an imagination

[Anonymous Coward]

1) Who watches TV shows on their *phone*??? Honestly, I can't even imagine.

Hey, Ringo - those of us that have an HDMI cable, or can cast the screen to a larger monitor..

No problem

[nospam007]

Thankfully even locked Android phones still support uTorrent, so you can kiss my ass goodbye, Netflix.

Unlocked isn't what they think it is.

[Anonymous Coward]

Unlocked isn't what they think it is. My phone was shipped from google "unlocked." That means it isn't tied to any specific cell network. Don't think anyone sold a "locked" version of the phone, ever.

The official version of android for my google device is a different issue entirely. Google support for it ended after about 3 yrs. Seems Google believes a $450 device should only be used for 2-3 yrs. I disagree and intend to use it for 10+ yrs. That means if I want a secure as possible OS on it, I **must** run a non-Google release.

Glad I'm not a netflix subscriber. OTOH, I would never watch netflix on a phone/tablet.

Heck, I'm still riding a $300 bicycle, 17 lbs, that I purchased in 1983. Beautiful machine. Still working perfectly. Also have a Nokia N800 from 2007 that works well. For safety, I don't use it outside the house anymore, since Microsoft killed off Maemo development. The OS is based on Debian.

F*ck...

[Anonymous Coward]

Microsoft, Apple, AT&T, Oil Drilling, (including off-shore, arctic, and hydraulic "fracking",) Sprint, Hillary Clinton, T-Mobile, Best Buy, curling, Verizon, Bought-Off Politicians, Ford, Volkswagen, the KKK, Google, artificial flavors, the Democratic Party, the NCAA, Amazon.com, the Republican Party, ALL the airlines AND the TSA, All Organized Religions, golf, Selfie Sticks, the NFL, Barrack Obama, Uber, Lyft, IBM, the Russian government, Wells Fargo, ambulance chasers, the NBA, Donald Trump, Bank of America, NHL, Bernie Sanders, Citibank, Fake Tits, Chase Bank, Visa, Bill Clinton, MasterCard, CNN, Fox "News," NBC, the Citizens United ruling, ABC, preexisting-conditions-exceptions, CBS, Hulu, and now...

Netflix!

...in no particular order, and far from an exhaustive list.

Re: F*ck...

[Anonymous Coward]

What's wrong with fake tits? That's the only thing on that list that I disagree with.

Re:Doesn't matter...

[lgw]

But more importantly, why would I want anything that would actually encourage me to watch MORE television and as a result, eat MORE crap, and get lest exercise?

TV causes eating? That's a new one on me. (Or do you mean watching commercials? But who does that?) I watch TV while I exercise - most of the stuff on Netflix is pretty vapid, but still more interesting than staring at the wall.

"Netflix original programming: slightly more interesting than watching paint dry."

APK

[Sugadadee]

Wouldn't rooted folk just get the APK and load that way. I know less convenient then App Store but...... Or just not update at all?

Re:APK

[ZeroNullVoid]

Only if you trust the APK source. I foresee the APK sources being flooded with modified APKs to steal credentials or install malware.

SafetyNET

[Anonymous Coward]

Geniuses at XDA only proved how shitty the Google engineers are. But I believe Google has fixed various issues in their SafetyNET since.

SafetyNET's purpose really is the financial apps so Barclays was actually doing the right thing. You don't want to enter your credentials in your baning app when your phone may be pwned by 3rd party. And Given the shittiness of Android (lack of updates for 1 year old phones) the probability thet you are pwned is pretty high.

The problem is non-financial software using SafetyNET - games for anti cheating purposes, Netflix for DRM.

Re:SafetyNET

[green1]

Thing is, SafertyNET doesn't stop your phone from being owned by a 3rd party, it only stops your phone from being owned by YOU.

I have a rooted phone, and my bank pops up a warning every time I open the app asking if I'm sure I want to perform such a dangerous operation as banking on a phone where I have root access. But the thing is, I would DEFINITELY not want to do that on a phone where I did NOT have root access, who knows what applications might be spying on me if I didn't have access to firewall them and monitor what the phone is doing?

Even worse is the ridiculous disconnect where you get banned from using these things on your phone, but their website doesn't bother you with the same warning when you open it on a computer that you have root access on!

Re:SafetyNET

[Anonymous Coward]

I would much rather use an approved platform for banking where any loss is covered by the bank than use a different platform and assume all the risk myself.

Re:SafetyNET

[green1]

You'll be surprised to know that it doesn't change your risk level at all.
Banks will do everything they can to nail you to the cross either way.

No to Netflix

[Tough Love]

This is a contender for most crack addled management pratfall ever.

I was prescient

[JohnFen]

It sounds like my decision to ditch Netflix last year was a great one!

As it happens...

[Anonymous Coward]

So begins the fall of netflix.

Re:As it happens...

[green1]

So continues the fall of netflix
FTFY

Re:As it happens...

[Anonymous Coward]

and so it continues.

here take another bullet.

wait what about Tizen, Windows on ARM, BusyBaux, Blue-cat, Blu-linx, etc..

I canceled Netflix eons ago

[Anonymous Coward]

I canceled Netflix a long time ago after another one of their stupid decisions. I can't even remember which one it was though; there have been so many along the way.

Nothing software can't fix.

[Anonymous Coward]

In the end it's all 1's and 0's. Necessity will provide an answer.

Well then

[nightfire-unique]

I've been a Netflix customer for almost 10 years. If they block their app on my rooted device, our business relationship will have reached its conclusion.

If you own NFLX..

[nightfire-unique]

If you own NFLX, now's about the time to get out. If they're willing to start picking and choosing who pays them money, it can't be long before they run their business into the ground.

It's about ads

[nightfire-unique]

This one is easy.

$50 bet: Netflix is planning to start introducing ads to their paying customers. Disabling the service on rooted devices is a measure to prevent people from blocking them.

If you root your phone

[Anonymous Coward]

you almost certainly have no interest in netflicks.

I canceled my acct, rated app low, and sent a msg

[ZeroNullVoid]

I canceled my account, lowered my review and description, and sent a detailed message up the chain through their support about how it's a ad idea.

Why can I use Netflix on a privileged PC but not a rooted phone?

Not having updates on rooted devices through the play store will force users to download Netflix updates through untrusted sources which could be modified to steal credentials.

DRM has a history of not stopping piracy, just annoying users and reducing battery life.

I root my androids to do advanced mounting and linking of apps beyond what standard app2sd can do.

They lost me as a customer, but also they have not cared about a functional app on non-touch devices. I've been messaging them for a while about supporting play/pause with the space bar or multimedia keys on wireless USB keyboards and not forcing mouse use. There is a hack you can use, press left or right to move navigation forward and back, then pressing ok while the ui is up. It still is not user friendly, but allows quicker pausing.

I felt bad for Netflix after the leak and extortion with Orange is the New Black as they were one of the good guys. Now they are SCUM.

first bullet in foot, second....

[Anonymous Coward]

Wow..

Blatant grab for money..
whaqt happend to Our crap will work on any device, any where, any time??
do I smell a violation of terms of service?
do I smell $$
Will somone get a refund?

Does this apply to all platforms or is it I-fone versus Android??

Too late for flattery

[friesofdoom]

I'm not giving this school a DIME!

Re:I canceled my acct, rated app low, and sent a m

[ZeroNullVoid]

I should have cancelled them when they blocked me from using them from a VPN. They care more about geo-fencing content than user privacy. Especially in today's world where we learn that our fears of spying are true.

Root Shmoot

[brendan_orr]

There is a fallacy at work here... I run Linux on my desktops and HTPCs: I have access to my root account. I have the official Chrome release with Widevine support. I can watch Netflix via the browser. How is this any different than having a Linux-based Android device, a root account, and a method for secure DRM? Especially given my desktop processor is greatly more powerful than my mobile's. If I wanted to break copy protection it would be easier via desktop than anything else. A workaround usually always comes though. And maybe Netflix will quietly nix that requirement. I haven't heard anything about VPNs lately, anybody know if it is still an issue?

Windows Phone starting to sound pretty good

[Anonymous Coward]

No need to root it, and the Netflix app works just fine.

RRK

What do they have against International phones?

[Anonymous Coward]

Unlocked phones means you can put any SIM card in it.