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Popular Torrent Site ExtraTorrent Permanently Shuts Down (torrentfreak.com)

ExtraTorrent, the world's second largest torrent index, on Wednesday said it is permanently shutting its doors. The site, which launched in 2006, had steadily climbed the ranks in the piracy world to become the second most popular torrent site, observing millions of daily views. TorrentFreak adds: "ExtraTorrent with all mirrors goes offline.. We permanently erase all data. Stay away from fake ExtraTorrent websites and clones. Thx to all ET supporters and torrent community. ET was a place to beâ¦." TorrentFreak reached out to ExtraTorrent operator SaM who confirmed that this is indeed the end of the road for the site. "It's time we say goodbye," he said, without providing more details. [...] ExtraTorrent is the latest in a series of BitTorrent giants to fall in recent months. Previously, sites including KickassTorrents, Torrentz.eu, TorrentHound and What.cd went offline.

104 of 169 comments (clear)

  1. Someone could start a new one. by SeaFox · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Nyaa.se was shut down voluntarily as well at the beginning of the month, but a group from the fandom and people close to the old site started a replacement that will eventually be just like the old site for all intents and purposes.

    1. Re:Someone could start a new one. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Informative
    2. Re:Someone could start a new one. by Rhapsody+Scarlet · · Score: 5, Informative

      I'd add that a quick look at the fansubs sites I follow shows a fair bit of fragmentation at the moment. AniDex and minglong seem the most popular choices right now, with (new) Nyaa a distant third and Nyaa Pantsu nobody's first choice so far. Anything could change, but that's what I'm seeing so far.

    3. Re:Someone could start a new one. by nojayuk · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Nyaa was/is a favourite site for foreign-language (JP and CN mainly) drama, anime and manga torrents. I don't think it or its replacement carries a lot of Western stuff.

    4. Re:Someone could start a new one. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      nobody's first choice so far

      Except for japan, according to alexa stats

    5. Re:Someone could start a new one. by sheramil · · Score: 1

      If it has english subtitles that's western enough for me, baka!

    6. Re:Someone could start a new one. by SeaFox · · Score: 1

      Nyaa.pantsu.cat is a wannabe. Its only claims to fame was a supposed backup of the old Nyaa database, it's days are numbered because Nyaa.si is the site groups are actually signing up on.

    7. Re:Someone could start a new one. by l20502 · · Score: 1

      I see smaller groups signing up on both, the big ones are pushing for .si because they made it.

    8. Re:Someone could start a new one. by xCHINO31 · · Score: 1

      Hey guys I wrote an article called "Top 3 ExtraTorrent Replacements" in case you need to find a new home. Good luck! =) http://codex.games/top-3-extra...

    9. Re: Someone could start a new one. by Brockmire · · Score: 1

      Doubt it. Kat made millions and was smaller. Extra has had malware infested ads for years. I highly doubt they weren't getting a cut of that.

  2. What will I do now? by mi · · Score: 4, Funny

    How am I going to download all that open-source software, that I used to download with BitTorrent?

    --
    In Soviet Washington the swamp drains you.
    1. Re:What will I do now? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Ironically i depend on bittorrent for my Ubuntu iso's and new copys of Flightgear which are almost 2 Gb now.

    2. Re:What will I do now? by fustakrakich · · Score: 1

      Just like always. You gotta problem?

      --
      “He’s not deformed, he’s just drunk!”
    3. Re:What will I do now? by fluffernutter · · Score: 1

      Dude I had no idea about flightgear! I play an old version of MS Flight Sim. I'll definitely check that out,

      --
      Laws are rules for the court, but merely a bottom bar to hit for life. Think beyond laws in your actions always.
    4. Re:What will I do now? by omnichad · · Score: 1

      i depend on bittorrent for my Ubuntu iso'
      As do I, but I'm not going to go to a pirate tracker to find it. I'd rather be sure to get a magnet/.torrent from Ubuntu and know that it's not tampered with.

    5. Re:What will I do now? by mi · · Score: 1

      Just like always. You gotta problem?

      I don't, but this guy — and all of the adoring moderators of his — might:

      In the debate about file sharing, please speak up for the legal uses of it.

      That's what I tried to do today, and what did I get?..

      --
      In Soviet Washington the swamp drains you.
    6. Re:What will I do now? by Jamu · · Score: 4, Funny

      How am I going to download all those illicit copyrighted jokes!

      --
      Who ordered that?
    7. Re:What will I do now? by fustakrakich · · Score: 1

      That's what I tried to do today, and what did I get?

      I don't know. I answered your question. What were you expecting?

      --
      “He’s not deformed, he’s just drunk!”
    8. Re:What will I do now? by ls671 · · Score: 1

      couldn't you just verify the checksum? Heck, signatures should be available too...

      It doesn't really matter where you download it from...

      --
      Everything I write is lies, read between the lines.
    9. Re:What will I do now? by ogdenk · · Score: 1

      Dude I had no idea about flightgear! I play an old version of MS Flight Sim. I'll definitely check that out,

      Flightgear has been around a long time. It's a great sim. I just get bored quickly without being able to blow shit up so I start playing IL2 1946 or CoD instead which gives me a realistic sim and a the fun of strafing Russians.

    10. Re:What will I do now? by omnichad · · Score: 1

      Yeah, sure I could. And when I get to the page with the checksums listed, there's a link to the .torrent / magnet right there on the same page. Searching a tracker is just duplicating my efforts.

    11. Re:What will I do now? by ls671 · · Score: 1

      What if your Ubuntu site had been hacked? Verify checksums from different sources. I also use signatures when available, combined with checksums. ABC baby you and me!

      Example:
      $ sha256sum jdk-8u121-linux-i586.tar.gz
      f7d6cf1468c5e71ff097bec0189caccdd8e709a2a88a2c9849ad6200c0f33d4c jdk-8u121-linux-i586.tar.gz

      Now just google for:
      f7d6cf1468c5e71ff097bec0189caccdd8e709a2a88a2c9849ad6200c0f33d4c

      You get the idea.

      --
      Everything I write is lies, read between the lines.
    12. Re:What will I do now? by omnichad · · Score: 1

      Yeah, you could also Google the checksum you find on the Ubuntu web site and verify it before wasting the time and bandwidth to download.

    13. Re:What will I do now? by ls671 · · Score: 1

      Hint: You have to do the checksum anyway after you have spent the bandwidth. There is no way to trust a server in advance.

      --
      Everything I write is lies, read between the lines.
    14. Re:What will I do now? by omnichad · · Score: 1

      If the checksum matches, then you can download and verify. If a bad actor wanted to hack the Ubuntu web site, they would change the checksum on the page to match the bad download - which wouldn't match posted checksums elsewhere.

      None of these arguments have told me why a torrent tracker is more trustworthy or more convenient than the source - which was the entire point of the thread.

    15. Re:What will I do now? by ls671 · · Score: 1

      If the checksum matches, then you can download and verify.

      If the checksum matches what? Since if I understand you correctly, you haven't downloaded anything yet. The only way to see if a checksum matches is to first download the content.

      Most of the time, checksum webpages are not even hosted on the same server as the download links which seems logical to me.

      --
      Everything I write is lies, read between the lines.
    16. Re:What will I do now? by ls671 · · Score: 1

      Also, don't forget digital signatures. Use them when available but double-check with checksums. With proper chain of trust, checksums are just as good as digital signature although. Signing is just signing a checksum with PKA/RSA logic which constitute a way to establish trust in the checksum, that is about it.

      But then again, you have to download the content first ;-(

      --
      Everything I write is lies, read between the lines.
    17. Re:What will I do now? by ls671 · · Score: 1

      None of these arguments have told me why a torrent tracker is more trustworthy or more convenient than the source - which was the entire point of the thread.

      Don't trust anybody, period.

      --
      Everything I write is lies, read between the lines.
    18. Re:What will I do now? by ls671 · · Score: 1

      PKI

      --
      Everything I write is lies, read between the lines.
    19. Re:What will I do now? by ls671 · · Score: 1

      Hello again,

      Here is a nice youtube video that covers somehow the matter of trust webs:

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?...

      more formally:
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...

      --
      Everything I write is lies, read between the lines.
  3. We pirates must unite by jediborg · · Score: 4, Insightful

    And use technology to create an amazing decentralized pirate torrenting site that can never be shut down!

    Also we need to stop using the word 'pirate' i think we lost the intellectual debate the moment we adopted the term. Its 'file sharing". I bet you if i asked ten random people on the street if they think piracy is wrong, most would say yes. But if i asked 10 random people if 'file sharing' was wrong and should be illegal, they would say 'No! you should be able to share files"

    1. Re:We pirates must unite by jonnythan · · Score: 1

      File sharing is fine. Piracy denotes *illegal* file sharing. That's what torrent sites are for. If you ask people if they thought "illegally sharing files" was wrong, then they would mostly not say "no!"

    2. Re:We pirates must unite by WrongMonkey · · Score: 3, Interesting
      Does WireShare meet your "amazing decentralized pirate torrenting site" criteria?

      https://sourceforge.net/projec...

    3. Re:We pirates must unite by l20502 · · Score: 2

      Limewire(Gnutella) seems pretty dead, last time I tried searching on it there weren't many results, eMule meanwhile still has some 200k+ users and the botnet spamming fake results seems to be dying down.

    4. Re:We pirates must unite by jediborg · · Score: 1

      basically the old napster, or limewire infrastructure. I haven't checked it out, but as i recall that model had problems with illegitimate files (e.g. you download Avengers, but the movie file is unplayable, or has 'cotton eyed joe' playing constantly over the movie audio) and relied on a central server to co-ordinate sharing of files. We need to develop a way to work around these issues

    5. Re:We pirates must unite by jediborg · · Score: 3, Interesting

      If you put the word 'illegally' then yeah, i think most would say no. The problem is, i don't think it is EVER a crime to share ANY information. The only crime one can do with information is to bypass someones firewalls and security measures to gain access to information stored on a hard drive that does not belong to you. That to me is 'digital trespassing' but i don't think sharing information over the internet should ever be a crime, in any form whatsoever

    6. Re:We pirates must unite by quenda · · Score: 2

      but i don't think sharing information over the internet should ever be a crime, in any form whatsoever

      No secrets? No privacy? That's a bit broad. I prefer the way that patents work.
      You can choose to keep something secret, or you can patent it. Then everyone gets to see it, and in exchange you get certain rights for royalties from commercial use.
      There is no need to ban sharing any more than sharing books is banned. It just creates an un-policable crime and destroys respect for rule of law.

    7. Re:We pirates must unite by iggymanz · · Score: 1

      Wrong, pirates don't point a magic replicator at a ship and get a copy of the contents while the ship goes on unmolested. You have been brainwashed by the entertainment cartel thugs who have lawmakers in their pockets.

    8. Re:We pirates must unite by udachny · · Score: 1

      i don't think it is EVER a crime to share ANY information.

      - how about your health data, purchasing habits, passwords to your online accounts, banking data? Just asking if you would keep that opinion if someone 'shared' all that on your behalf without consulting you first.

    9. Re:We pirates must unite by Altrag · · Score: 2

      Then you're wrong. Period.

      You're perfectly free to disagree with the law, but claiming its not a crime is flat out factually wrong -- the DMCA and similar laws do exist, whether you like it or not.

    10. Re:We pirates must unite by l20502 · · Score: 1

      Must get everything fastttt!!!!!!1!11111
      Queues are for communists!1!!11

    11. Re:We pirates must unite by TheEden · · Score: 1

      Your health and credit card data, emails and personal habits gets shared anyway every now and then, without your consent, and nobody seems complain about it too much. Claiming that something is illegal is moot unless you have a system in place that efficiently prevents that or - at least - reliably finds and punishes perpetrators. Internet don't work like that, though.

      Problem is (assuming it's a problem) - internet was never built to be secure (in a sence of allowing someone to access information and denying someone else). Because of that we have "workarounds" like firewalls, 3rd party auth systems and the like. Basically if you want to keep information private - the only way to do it 100% securely is to keep it away from internet to begin with. Fixing all that will probably require redesigning entire OSI model from scratch - and that's something few can afford.

      We do have stuff like DCMA that (supposedly) should prevent unauthorised distribution of data - but it only favors right-holders at the expence of everyone else - be it consumers, clients, or even authors. And since little people like me are going to get screwed over regardless of how secure (or more likely - controlled by government) environment is, I'd say I prefer a full-of-holes version of internet anyway. At least I have some control over what I share. If I share something - I assume anyone can see it. If i share something I don't want people to see - its entirely my fault.

    12. Re:We pirates must unite by jediborg · · Score: 1

      saying that "sharing information over the internet should never be a crime" is not the same as saying "no one should be able to keep secrets" You can encrypt a secret with your friends public key and send it to your friend. The point is the sharing of that information (encrypted or not) should never be a crime

    13. Re:We pirates must unite by jediborg · · Score: 1

      If i am stupid enough to give that information away, of course it isn't a crime for someone to then share my health data with another.

      But if someone got hold of that information by 'hacking' into my computer, bypassing my security measures, then that is 'digital tresspassing' they should be arrested for the digital equivalent of cracking the lock on my front door and walking inside to read my tax returns. But the actual act of transmitting that information (or any other information) should not be a crime

    14. Re:We pirates must unite by jediborg · · Score: 1

      It is a crime according to federal laws yes, I am arguing that it should NOT be a crime. also, if the government makes it a crime to say the word 'henceforth' does that actually make it a crime? I would argue no. A crime has a victim, some act of violence or transgression committed on another person (victim) just because 500 stupid people in Washington D.C. pass a law doesn't automatically make it a crime. YMMV I am a Chaotic-Good alignment kinda guy, screw all those Lawfull-Good sheep.

    15. Re:We pirates must unite by jediborg · · Score: 1

      I am arguing that the music industry 'lied' and used a misleading term 'piracy' to make people think it is unacceptable. When i download a file from someone else, no property is stolen, no person is left with less money than they had before. No person is left with less property than they had before. All that is occurring is the transmission of information, or bits. It is in no way related to theft or piracy. I think 'Internet Piracy' is the misleading term.

    16. Re:We pirates must unite by DerekLyons · · Score: 1

      I am arguing that the music industry 'lied' and used a misleading term 'piracy' to make people think it is unacceptable.

      'Piracy' is a perfectly good word for the act of taking the fruits of someone else's labor without paying for it. They're not 'making' people think it's unacceptable, because the act (the theft of someone else's work) was already unacceptable across the civilized world.

    17. Re:We pirates must unite by jediborg · · Score: 2

      Except i DIDNT TAKE ANYTHING. To 'take' from someone is to leave them with 1 less item of what you took then they had before. When i download music, it is the equivalent of walking down the street, past a street performer. If i don't pay the street performer, even if i enjoyed their music, am i "Taking" or "stealing" from them? That is essentially what you are arguing. File sharing is not theft. File sharing is not piracy. File sharing is not immoral. File sharing is not unethical. File sharing is sharing information. Sharing information is free speech. File sharing should not be illegal.

    18. Re:We pirates must unite by david_thornley · · Score: 1

      It accounts for a small minority of my torrent use, and my actions are the only ones I'm responsible for.

      --
      "When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
    19. Re: We pirates must unite by Brockmire · · Score: 1

      No, it isn't. Don't be so obtuse.

    20. Re: We pirates must unite by Brockmire · · Score: 1

      Your argument is flawed. Instead, it should be a musician in a bar, charging cover to enter the bar to listen to said music and you never paid the ticket price. You walked into the bar without paying, and you'll get kicked out as you never had permission to enter and listen. Musicians buying studio time to create content are not fucking charities.

    21. Re: We pirates must unite by jediborg · · Score: 1

      Well i guess we just have to agree to disagree. My whole argument is Not Paying != Theft. your argument is that not paying someone is always going to be theft. I just disagree, because i believe in freedom

  4. Re:Another victim of terrible leftist laws by Sigma+7 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Keep in mind that most of the abuse of copyright in the US stems from the Digital Millennium Copyright Act

    Any abuse of copyright law can be fixed by amending the law, and the government elected afterwards has not done so.

    many other leftists around the world for continually extending copyright protections

    That's not a leftist ideology, that's a corporate ideology.

    An actual leftist ideology would be something similar to the GPL that recognizes that nothing should be locked down in the long-term by a small elite - especially if it allows people to use computers without having to pay more than they should (e.g. allow computers to have Linux, a basic set of compilers, and basic software required to do practically any common task.)

  5. Distributed index by PoopJuggler · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Why aren't there any distributed indexes? Seems silly to have an entire distributed distribution system without a matching index.

    1. Re:Distributed index by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Because indexes are hard and distributed data is hard. And combining the two concepts is hard-squared.

      And better yet, indexes are data, so distributing an index requires another index of the index, which then must be distributed, which requires another index of the index of the index... and now we're into infinite recursion territory. Flattening recursion like that creates a koan. There are ways of handling that, too, but it's not simple or obvious.

      And once you do this for bittorrent trackers, you'd be a fool not to sink that effort into a replacement for DNS as well.

    2. Re:Distributed index by MikeDataLink · · Score: 1

      Why aren't there any distributed indexes? Seems silly to have an entire distributed distribution system without a matching index.

      Ah if only I had mod points! +1

      This is something I ask every single time this comes up. Why are the indexes not distributed the same way the torrent itself is? This seriously cannot be that hard to solve.

      --
      Mike @ The Geek Pub. Let's Make Stuff!
    3. Re:Distributed index by l20502 · · Score: 1

      Indexers and DHT scrapers are a kind of decentralization.

    4. Re:Distributed index by WrongMonkey · · Score: 2

      Tribler is a bit torrent client that uses an overlay network for searching. https://www.tribler.org/

    5. Re:Distributed index by behrooz0az · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Technically speaking, It's not impossible; The problem is that it's spammable/DoSable and will need an authority to either allow/deny nodes from inserting to index or someone like our good old friend 'hosts guy' to maintain a list of known good source nodes that people can download and only share the indexes from those.
      And/Or other simple restrictions like limiting the number of torrents any node can add to the index.
      And/Or a voting system that allows all nodes to vote on others to help the client applications with prioritizing/filtering the index.
      For node enrolling, I think a memory-hard cpu-hard hash of parts/some of the index should be viable.

      As you can see there are a lot of problems with non-obvious fixes. I've been studying distributed databases for some time and i have problems putting this together. not easy.

      --
      Moderating "-1, Disagree" is simple censorship. Have the guts to post your opinion. -- Spazmania (174582)
    6. Re:Distributed index by l20502 · · Score: 2

      I used to use shareaza, which combined results from many P2P networks and it had a nice way to distribute antifake filters, which worked quite well.

    7. Re:Distributed index by behrooz0az · · Score: 1

      We're talking about a larger scale here which means it will be targeted by some rich people.

      --
      Moderating "-1, Disagree" is simple censorship. Have the guts to post your opinion. -- Spazmania (174582)
    8. Re:Distributed index by Kjella · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Why aren't there any distributed indexes? Seems silly to have an entire distributed distribution system without a matching index.

      Torrents were made so that you could put a 10kb torrent file instead of a 700 MB Linux ISO on your website, it was a way for a master source to "crowdfund" hosting. It didn't try to be a P2P solution like Napster or Kazaa. That's also why they never got sued, nothing about the tool itself made it dubious in the the eyes of the law. The biggest problem with an index is spam and DDoS. For it to work well I think you'd have to do something more like RSS with digital signatures and PGP's web of trust. Like say if you find a torrent made by a release group, you can subscribe to their "channel" where only they can post new torrents + info about other "channels" they trust/no longer trust.

      Even then there's issues of propagation and when a client should start/stop searching for new posts. Then again magnet links are pretty small, might just say that every update is a full replacement with a timestamp and max limit like 1000 torrents * 20 (SHA-1) = ~20kb. So distributed host checks signature and timestamp, if newer replace RSS "feed". Client asks by signature hash and gets the latest version, can verify signature and start downloading the magnet links for more info on each entry. Web of trust can be done similarly, hash of trusted signature + trust value. It all sounds pretty doable...

      --
      Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
    9. Re:Distributed index by Areyoukiddingme · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Technically speaking, It's not impossible; The problem is that it's spammable/DoSable and will need an authority to either allow/deny nodes from inserting to index or someone like our good old friend 'hosts guy' to maintain a list of known good source nodes that people can download and only share the indexes from those.

      No authority is needed, because there isn't one already. In the centralized index situation, no human validates torrents uploaded to the centralized indices. Instead, the users do. If you go search for any blockbuster movie you care to name on Pirate Bay, you'll get 50 pages worth of hits. The first 10 to 15 hits might be useful, with various bitrate encodings and various subtitles and audio tracks in them, and then it very very quickly tails off into utter trash. It doesn't seem to hurt Pirate Bay. Nobody ever selects the torrents with zero seeds unless they're looking for something so niche that there's no other option, and no one seeds bogus torrents. Even their pathetic originators give up extremely quickly.

      And/Or other simple restrictions like limiting the number of torrents any node can add to the index.

      In a decentralized index, that limit is only in the local node, where it is easily removed. Not worth bothering to write the code in the first place.

      And/Or a voting system that allows all nodes to vote on others to help the client applications with prioritizing/filtering the index.

      The seed count effectively serves as a voting system today. It's by far the most useful metric. About the only other useful metric is a user-defined list of strings. Quality video encodings tend to have some release group tag in the torrent name. Easy enough to push priority up a bit if the user's preferred string is present.

      What's missing is implementing support for search within Mainline DHT. Kademlia DHT on which it is based has a scheme already designed:

      Filename searches are implemented using keywords. The filename is divided into its constituent words. Each of these keywords is hashed and stored in the network, together with the corresponding filename and file hash. A search involves choosing one of the keywords, contacting the node with an ID closest to that keyword hash, and retrieving the list of filenames that contain the keyword. Since every filename in the list has its hash attached, the chosen file can then be obtained in the normal way.

      Mainline DHT has omitted that functionality. If it were implemented, index sites would no longer be required.

      Obviously Mainline DHT traffic would increase substantially, but it would still be quite small compared to torrent traffic. Also, if it were implemented exactly as described, clients would be responsible for filtering results coming in from the DHT. Most users want the logical AND of their search terms, but Kademlia specifies a logical OR. Performing that processing is simple enough though, and of course the client could present results much like web search engines do, with results that contain as many of the keywords as possible presented first, followed by results with fewer and fewer matches. You don't get the fuzzy matching most of the web search engines employ doing that, but as it happens, you also don't get fuzzy matching from Pirate Bay search anymore, so that's no loss. Client authors then have the option of preemptively fetching .torrent files in order to get tracker lists to be able to rank the results by how active they are, or of waiting to let users do some manual culling first. That whole process is substantially slower than a centralized index site. Mainline DHT is anything but fast, most of the time. It is, however, bulletproof. As long as the DHT exists, files could be found.

      BEP 0005 specifies KRPC methods of ping, find_node, get_peers, and announce_peer. What's needed is a new BEP to extend the protocol, adding search_peers.

    10. Re:Distributed index by Altrag · · Score: 1

      Its hard, but not impossible. Using a bitcoin-style blockchain system should allow for a distributed index with fairly strong protection against tampering.

    11. Re:Distributed index by behrooz0az · · Score: 1

      No authority is needed, because there isn't one already. In the centralized index situation, no human validates torrents uploaded to the centralized indices. Instead, the users do.

      That was my point. there is some authority.

      In a decentralized index, that limit is only in the local node, where it is easily removed. Not worth bothering to write the code in the first place.

      Maybe i should have been more clear. If you get say 50 torrents from a node in 22 hours you only advertise the first 16 to your peers if it's not in your trusted list.
      I still think there should be some restrictions because the index will become very large very fast.

      --
      Moderating "-1, Disagree" is simple censorship. Have the guts to post your opinion. -- Spazmania (174582)
    12. Re:Distributed index by behrooz0az · · Score: 1

      Block chain is ~7 Gigabytes as of now and I beleive most of its enteries are a result of days of sha256(sha256()). Even legitimate torrents can make a larger index in a year. The resulting index will sure look like the block chain. the problem is making sure it doesn't get abused. if putting stuff in it is easy then disney or MPAA or someone could just spam it with a terabyte of content on the first day. voila, no more torrents.

      --
      Moderating "-1, Disagree" is simple censorship. Have the guts to post your opinion. -- Spazmania (174582)
    13. Re:Distributed index by behrooz0az · · Score: 1

      sorry, ~117 GiB.
      google failed me with a report from 2013
      Average joe just can't download it.

      --
      Moderating "-1, Disagree" is simple censorship. Have the guts to post your opinion. -- Spazmania (174582)
    14. Re:Distributed index by Areyoukiddingme · · Score: 2

      No authority is needed, because there isn't one already. In the centralized index situation, no human validates torrents uploaded to the centralized indices. Instead, the users do.

      That was my point. there is some authority.

      Well no, there isn't. There is no one who says, "YIFY torrent, approved and available for download! Cell phone cam from random derp guy, disapproved, not available for download!" Everything is made available that parses as a torrent file, regardless of content, or whether or not the label actually matches the contents, and search results return them all. Then it's up to the users to figure out, individually, which torrents are actually valuable. Swarm size is the proxy of that determination. The whole thing is a great deal like the design of the Internet itself: the intelligence is at the edges. The core is as dumb as it can be.

      Maybe i should have been more clear. If you get say 50 torrents from a node in 22 hours you only advertise the first 16 to your peers if it's not in your trusted list.
      I still think there should be some restrictions because the index will become very large very fast.

      The nature of the DHT already prevents most floods. When your get_peers message has to bounce from node to node looking for one that's alive and owns the keyspace, it can take a good deal of time just to get a response at all.

      In any case, the universe of torrents on the Internet is much smaller than you might think. A random search result I just saw says 1.64 million torrents fits in 90 megs. Back when PirateBay still had the .torrent files available, there was some discussion of mirrors and everything they had at the time was less than 50 gigs. Today that number is bigger, but here's the thing. Now that PirateBay only has magnet links, those torrent files are already in the DHT. Adding search terms adds some number of hashes for each word, which points to the filenames and infohashes that are already in the system. Maybe a factor of 4 increase in bytes? Depending on the definition of a word when splitting the filenames and how efficiently clients implement it. There's something on the order of 25 million nodes in Mainline DHT. Let's say torrents have doubled, then multiply by our factor of 4, so 400 gigs. The burden on clients to store that data is now an average... 16,000 bytes each, up from 4,000 bytes. In other words, even with massive redundancy in the network, it's not even necessary to cull inactive torrents, let alone worry about bogus ones. Each torrent client that joins the DHT keeps a handful of megabytes of DHT data to keep the whole system running and even a concerted attack to pollute individual keywords would have difficulty making a dent in it.

      In addition, the way the DHT works, there really is no possibility of making a useful list of trusted nodes anyway. The network is constantly rebalancing itself. It has to. Node churn as people start up and shut down their machines and their clients is on the order of 10 million per day, and ordinarily, what DHT data a given node has is opaque to the user, and there's no point in making it visible because it changes all the time based on the mathematics in the system.

      People don't really think about it because it works so well and so silently, but Mainline DHT represents a gigantic amount of distributing computing power, in all categories (bandwidth, memory, CPU). For comparison, Folding@Home is lucky to muster 250,000 active nodes. DHT dwarfs it, at two orders of magnitude larger. It really can tolerate quite a lot of malfuckery and continue to function. After all, it already does.

  6. Re:Sucks but predictable by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

    Been there done that.

    Having to create proxy identities for when they inevitably get raided or having the user info dumped by hackers is more hassle than just getting behind onion routing and going anon public. No thanks

  7. Volunteer Shutdowns Everywere by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Interesting

    There have been multiple volunteer shutdowns in recent weeks, whether it's release groups like JYK or torrent sites like Nyaa. No information is ever revealed as to why they decided to shut down, just that it was voluntary. I assume somebody is putting a lot of pressure on these people and they're doing it to avoid criminal charges.

    This is clearly a far better approach to stopping piracy than suing a few downloaders, but I'm not sure they can win this game of whack-a-mole. Nyaa was almost immediately replaced by nyaa.pantsu.cat, while the Pirate Bay is still running as an alternative to ExtraTorrent. It'll be interesting to see what happens if they sustain this attack.

    1. Re:Volunteer Shutdowns Everywere by Altrag · · Score: 1

      "Voluntarily" tends to mean something different when it comes to situations like this than you expect from the daily usage of the word.

      While there's maybe a few sites that close on their own here and there for whatever reason, if you start seeing a whole spat of them at once, there's a good chance that some police organization or other has sent them a message along the lines of "We know who you are. Shut down on your own or we'll do it for you." Its technically "voluntary" by the strictest definition of the word, but highly coerced.

  8. Re:Sucks but predictable by l20502 · · Score: 1

    Why would tech-minded people support the inferior "cripple the protocol to make it centralized" instead of "make an improved protocol"

  9. Re:Another victim of terrible leftist laws by Plus1Entropy · · Score: 4, Informative

    The DMCA is a terrible leftist law passed in 1996 by a voice vote in the Republican controlled House and unanimous consent in the Republican controlled Senate.

    --
    Only crack the nuts that crack. You don't put the ones that don't crack in the sack.
  10. naive question: what's wrong with piratebay by interkin3tic · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Is there a reason one would use a site like extratorrent rather than piratebay? They all just list torrents, right? I recognize I'm terribly uninformed when it comes to piracy, just wondering if I'm missing something.

    1. Re:naive question: what's wrong with piratebay by blahplusplus · · Score: 4, Interesting

      "Is there a reason one would use a site like extratorrent rather than piratebay?

      Stuff on the pirate bay is only high quality if its popular, if you're more into stuff thats niche or you want high qualtiy stuff you need to go to other sites. Take Dragon ball Z a popular anime, you can get better rips from private trackers or specialty trackers who's fans are dedicated to uploading high quality rips. On TPB you will find everything but the quality will vary accordingly, much stuff on the pirate bay is only 'good enough' if you want average to bad video encoding quality and hence private trackers.

    2. Re:naive question: what's wrong with piratebay by BitterOak · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Is there a reason one would use a site like extratorrent rather than piratebay? They all just list torrents, right? I recognize I'm terribly uninformed when it comes to piracy, just wondering if I'm missing something.

      What's wrong with The Pirate Bay is that it is becoming the only torrent site. All the others are shutting down, which means when The Pirate Bay falls, there will be nothing left. It's dangerous to be too reliant on one site. Think they're too big to be shut down? Kickass Torrents was just as big. There needs to be more options. When there are only a few, they are targets. It will only be a matter of time before The Pirate Bay falls.

      --
      If I can be modded down for being a troll, can I be modded up for being an orc, or a balrog?
    3. Re:naive question: what's wrong with piratebay by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      thepiratebay websites have been replaced with viruses/malware. Seriously, try to use one and you will get pop-ups, redirects, all sorts of bullshit even when using good extensions like ublock origin, and noscript. At this point I consider thepiratebay simply an exploit site designed to turn your computer in to a drone.

    4. Re:naive question: what's wrong with piratebay by jaa101 · · Score: 2

      what is TPB?

      The Pirate Bay

      And also, was free & open-source software really not available already on its own webpage?

      Web servers use a server-client model that means the server has to have enough bandwidth to satisfy all the clients. Bittorrent is a peer-to-peer model which means all the clients help each other to pass around the data. This makes torrenting a good fit for distributing large datasets, like Linux distributions.

    5. Re:naive question: what's wrong with piratebay by Altrag · · Score: 1

      TPB may be becoming the only well-known torrent site, but its hardly the only existing one. If they fall, others will fill the gap. It may take a while before another one takes precedence as "the" torrent site, but it will happen.

      Just like killing Napster didn't end file sharing, nor will killing TPB (yet again..) and Napster was in far far more of a "the only one" situation at the time.

      That's the fact that the RIAA and MPAA refuse to face. The constant game of legal whack-a-mole can only provide them with at best a temporary reprieve. File sharing of one form or another is simply significantly cheaper, easier and faster to setup than the legal hassles of taking it down again, and there's always someone somewhere willing to take the risk.

  11. Re:Another victim of terrible leftist laws by ArchieBunker · · Score: 1

    Just goes to show that money talks.

    --
    Only the State obtains its revenue by coercion. - Murray Rothbard
  12. Re:Hands down the best... by ArchieBunker · · Score: 2

    btdb.in (but watch out for pop up windows)

    --
    Only the State obtains its revenue by coercion. - Murray Rothbard
  13. Re:Sucks but predictable by ArchieBunker · · Score: 1

    Oh yeah nobody from the feds or big media could ever get invited to that...

    --
    Only the State obtains its revenue by coercion. - Murray Rothbard
  14. Re:Leftist by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    I'm not sure what the "left" is any more (or the right to tell the truth).

    Good, that puts you 5 steps closer to the truth than you were when you thought the terms had meaning.

    So, here's the history.
    Before taking the names that they would be known as later, three sociopolitical philosophies forming in the universities of 1920's Europe called themselves "left, right, and center." Which was right and which was left was kind of arbitrary, but since the other one was a bit of a hybrid of the two, it was called center. They were all being developed to "solve" the problems of individual choice, as seen in the bitter depression that preceded the roaring 20's in the USA.

    "Left" was a philosophy of cooperative anarchy. With no government, votes, or other trappings of authority over each other, people would work as well as they could and aid their neighbors in need.
    "Right" was a philosophy of tyrannical efficiency. Whenever an industry became important, the government would bring the top players together, determine who should handle that industry, and the rest were absorbed into the monopoly.
    "Center" was a philosophy of brutal revolution. No one with any influence was to be trusted, they all had to be dethroned and replaced with loyal members of the government.
    All three became more complicated as they debated and discussed real-world issues beyond their initial motivation.

    In the 1930's, students of "right" and "center" found their way into political power throughout much of Europe and Asia. The "left" were typically tricked into cooperation with "center." Since all three philosophies knew each-other's tactics, they feared imminent re-revolution more than any form of counter-revolution and immediately outlawed and hunted the other two philosophies once they came to power.

    Ever since the mid 1940's, it has been popular for members of whichever philosophy has the most traction in each semi-representative nation to portray anyone who disagrees with them with the terminology of one of the other philosophies from that trio.

  15. Re:Another victim of terrible leftist laws by Kinematics · · Score: 2

    I think you missed the sarcasm.

  16. Almost positive by gizmo2199 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    That the torrent site operators got spooked after kickass torrents operator, Artem Vaulin lost his extradition request in Poland. Now anybody linked to a torrent site is potentially liable to spend a decade or more in a federal prison, even if they don't live or host anything in the U.S.

    --
    This Sig does not Exist.
  17. Why take his advice? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Stay away from fake ExtraTorrent websites and clones.

    Ok, "fake" implies fraud, suggesting someone might phish for credentials, but why would people want to stay away from clones? That doesn't make sense. If someone liked this site, surely they'd prefer a clone over simply doing-without.

    The big question about stuff like this, is why do torrent site operators not try to have their sites outlast them? Why isn't there a torrent of all their data (maybe without user tables)? That they want their projects to die with them, suggests it's mainly about dicksize than the work itself.

    1. Re:Why take his advice? by Altrag · · Score: 1

      Well given that they explicitly said they're deleting all their data, any clone you find is probably also a fake.

      As for why they don't want their sites to outlast them.. primarily because there's no incentive to do so. Most torrent site operators are in it for the money -- that's why most torrent sites have ads pasted all over the damned place and half their links that look like the "download" button are actually even more ads (and since theoretically-legitimate advertisers like Google don't like working with illegal sites, the ads they get tend to be either porn or completely bogus and have a higher-than-normal-ads chance of being viruses to boot since most of the shady advertisers are a lot less concerned about the quality or source of their ads as long as they get paid. Kind of the defining quality of being shady.)

      So its not about dick size (or at least no more than anything else is,) but its also not about freedom of information or other ideologies either -- its about money plain and simple and when they're no longer getting paid, they also no longer care about their site. (And even if they did care, deciding to release their site contents right after it was looking like possible legal trouble coming their way could look pretty bad for their case should the possibility become reality.)

      Sure there's the odd site like TPB that's really in it for the ideology.. and you can tell that by the fact that they keep coming back after being shutdown and having key members prosecuted and so forth. But they're the rare exception.

  18. Re: Another victim of terrible leftist laws by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    It took me about 5 seconds to verify that the GOP controlled both houses of Congress at the time.

    Nice try, partisan fake news fuckstain.

  19. Re:Leftist by Cajun+Hell · · Score: 1

    I view it as "leftist" because it expanded the powers of government at the expense of the people. ("It" being the anti-circumvention aspects, not the safe harbor and boat design aspects; I'm not addressing those here.) It created a new crime out of an innocent activity.

    This is independent of it also being such an unusually bad idea. Unless you're a perfect anarchist or perfect totalitarian, left/right rarely implies much about good or bad.

    --
    "Believe me!" -- Donald Trump
  20. Re:Sucks but predictable by GameboyRMH · · Score: 2

    Yep, the future of torrenting is on I2P. The only reason it hasn't been done is due to a chicken-and-egg popularity problem. It needs to be popular to be fast and have lots of content, and it needs to be fast and have lots of content to be popular.

    --
    "When information is power, privacy is freedom" - Jah-Wren Ryel
  21. Re:Leftist by quenda · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I view it as "leftist" because it expanded the powers of government at the expense of the people.

    The left in theory gives power to the people, while the right gives power to the aristocracy. The terms come from the French revolution.
    In the US, it is more government versus the elite and corporations. But since the latter controls the former, its a moot point.

  22. Re:Sucks but predictable by theArtificial · · Score: 1

    It's pretty easy now, single installer. https://thetinhat.com/ is a pretty easy place to direct people to.

    --
    Man blir trött av att gå och göra ingenting.
  23. Rise and fall of Bittorrent by Visarga · · Score: 1

    I've been right here on Slashdot in 2001 when the first mention of Bittorrent appeared. It was about a RedHat distro (version 7 if I recall correctly?) and everyone wanted to get it asap. The best speed was for the guys torrenting it, compared to ftp which was severely flooded at the moment. After that Bittorrent caught up all over the net and in 2002 we already had Suprnova (RIP).

  24. Wrong by DerekLyons · · Score: 1

    Wrong, unlike you I've not been brainwashed into believing that stealing the fruits of someone else's labor is something I'm entitled to do and not theft at all.

    1. Re:Wrong by iggymanz · · Score: 2

      What stealing? The people selling content still have their fruits.

      Or to put it another way, for almost all of human history people could retell a story or replay a song. Now some thug gets a lawmaker in their pocket and makes that illegal except if you pay the thug. And you imagine yourself on the side of truth and righteousness siding with the thug.

    2. Re: Wrong by Brockmire · · Score: 1

      It's called copyright because they own the rights to copy it, not you. You stole the ability to control the copy process without permission, which cannot be undone. Stop thinking you're not stealing because the original is still physically there, you stole the owner's right to make that copy. I grew up where theft is simply taking something that doesn't belong to you without permission. Changing that to only mean physical items means you were raised by shitty parents.

    3. Re: Wrong by iggymanz · · Score: 1

      You're confused, "copyright" is merely a creation of politicians. You speak of "rights' that are not implicit, they are just recent creations of politician's minds. Again, this is not theft, nothing is stolen. You don't know right from wrong, you imagine the "law" is right. It was legal to stuff Jews into railroad cars to take them to concentration camps, for example.

  25. Re:Leftist by Altrag · · Score: 2

    That's not leftist. The left wants to protect average people from the rich and powerful who usually control things. Yes that usually amounts to expanded government (because who else has the ability to put checks on the already-powerful?) But expanding government in itself is not the goal. Most leftists would be perfectly happy with a smaller government if they could still get the protections they want.

    The DMCA on the other hand protects the profits of a few large corporations (ie: the rich an powerful,) at the cost of smaller corporations and average people. That's exactly the opposite of the leftist ideals. And just like the left generally has no problem shrinking government when its plausible to do so without losing protections, the right wingers generally have no problem expanding government the occasional time it benefits them.

    You also have to keep in mind that the Democratic party is only "left" in comparison to the Republicans. They're at best hovering around center if you consider the entire political spectrum. They may try to be more balanced about it but at the end of the day, the democrats are taking just as many bri^W campaign contributions from big corporations as the Republicans are.

  26. Re:Another victim of terrible leftist laws by Maritz · · Score: 1

    "Everything I don't like is 'leftist'" - Fuckwit AC, May 2017

    --
    I do not want your cheap brainburning drugs. They are useless for work. And I am a working man today.
  27. Re:Sucks but predictable by Maritz · · Score: 1

    I just pay for my content and don't worry about it.

    Don't break an arm patting yourself on the back champ, your medal's in the mail.

    --
    I do not want your cheap brainburning drugs. They are useless for work. And I am a working man today.
  28. Re:Leftist by mjwx · · Score: 2

    I view it as "leftist" because it expanded the powers of government at the expense of the people.

    The left in theory gives power to the people, while the right gives power to the aristocracy. The terms come from the French revolution.
    In the US, it is more government versus the elite and corporations. But since the latter controls the former, its a moot point.

    This,

    It is authoritarian policies that give more power to the government and liberal (as in liberalism) polices that give more power to individuals.

    Authoritarian and liberal policies can be anywhere on the left-right spectrum.

    The DCMA and Copyright are definitely extreme right and extreme authoritarian as they're designed to empower corporations over everything else. The irony is that copyright was originally designed to empower individuals, it was still right leaning, but more liberal as it gave time limited monopolies to artists.

    --
    Calling someone a "hater" only means you can not rationally rebut their argument.
  29. Re:Sucks but predictable by GameboyRMH · · Score: 1

    Very interesting website! Added to my RSS feeds.

    --
    "When information is power, privacy is freedom" - Jah-Wren Ryel
  30. Re:Magical Thinking. by jediborg · · Score: 1

    the only difference between 'sharing files with friends' and 'unlicensed wholesale distribution' is that technology has made the two pretty indistinguishable, and the lines which once made sense in the past are now extremely blurry.

    And while i respect the jury right to nullification, and the jury process, and your rights to a jury, MAN can 12 random people be really really dumb, especially when the topic is really technical and they are being told the wrong facts from a judge and prosecutor

  31. Re: Another victim of terrible leftist laws by Brockmire · · Score: 1

    I don't think that word means what you think it means.