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Julian Assange Still Faces Legal Jeopardy In Three Countries (chicagotribune.com)

Though Sweden dropped an investigation into rape allegations against Julian Assange, "I can conclude, based on the evidence, that probable cause for this crime still exists," chief prosecutor Marianne Ny told reporters in Stockholm. An anonymous reader quotes Newsweek: Ny stressed in her statement Friday that the investigation could be reopened before the statute of limitations on the case expires in 2020. If Assange "went into British custody, then the Swedes may well revisit their decision ⦠as extradition is suddenly easier", tweeted legal expert David Allen Green. Assange failed to answer a bail hearing when he took refuge in the embassy, resulting in an active warrant for his arrest by London's Metropolitan Police, punishable by up to a year in prison. Foremost of Assange's concerns is possible extradition to the U.S., where he he could be detained on espionage charges... Ecuador has offered Assange asylum should he be able to leave Britain.
Meanwhile, The Chicago Tribune reports that "a federal inquiry is widely assumed to be underway by prosecutors in Virginia." According to a former senior Justice Department official, who requested anonymity to discuss the Assange case, American authorities are now presented with a "cat and mouse game." "The decision on whether to indict him rests largely on whether they can get their hands on him," the former official said. Indicting the head of an organization such as WikiLeaks presents a huge number of First Amendment issues, but the Trump White House has indicated such issues may be less of a hurdle than during previous administrations. Prosecutors could seek a sealed indictment -- or may have one already -- to be unveiled if and when Assange strays within reach of American law enforcement, the former official said.

234 comments

  1. Still a sham by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Troll

    To extradite him to the US, nothing more

    1. Re: Still a sham by XXongo · · Score: 3, Informative

      Still a sham ...To extradite him to the US, nothing more

      To the contrary. At the time that he jumped bail on his promis to appear in Sweden for questioning, there really was no threat to extradite him to the U.S.. The Obama administration was vigorously prosecuting Americans who leaked U.S. secrets, but it had no apparent intent of going into dubious legal territory of trying to prosecute a foreigner who assisted publication of secrets he didn't leak himself. At the time, the threat to extradite him from Sweden to the U.S. was all in his mind. (And in any case, if the US had wanted him, it would have been just as hard, or just as easy, to extradite him from Sweden as from the UK.)

      But by fleeing his bond and hiding out in the Ecuadorian embassy, he allowed a new presidential administration to come to power in the U.S., and now there really is a credible threat, since this administration has no problem with dubious legal territory.

    2. Re: Still a sham by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Troll

      If the US didn't want him why did they threaten to shoot down the Ecuadorianâ President's plane when they thought he was on it.

    3. Re: Still a sham by dbIII · · Score: 4, Informative

      there really was no threat to extradite him to the U.S.

      The threat at the time was "extraordinary rendition" such as what occurred to Ahmed Agiza and Muhammad al-Zery from Bromma airport in Stockholm.
      Please do try to keep up.

    4. Re: Still a sham by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I don't see why people still talk about extradition when both Sweeden and the US have collaborated in rendition in the past. The amount they were fined was so small, the US would happily pay that or more for Assange; hell we have probably already paid as much to keep the pressure on and trump up the charges.

      Extradition is what happens most of the time....and exclusively in a country of laws. Sweeden is not a country of laws; they allow for rendition.

    5. Re: Still a sham by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "Extraordinary rendition" is something that, realistically speaking, can only happen to people you've never heard of. If those two hadn't been extraordinarily rendered, you'd never have heard of them, either.

      Assange hiding from that is just a pretext. Nobody, least of all him, imagines that he's going to be surreptitiously slipped onto a jet bound for Afghanistan.

    6. Re: Still a sham by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So by sheer coincidence the new administration is going to do what he wrongly thought the old one was trying to do?

  2. um... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

    " Indicting the head of an organization such as WikiLeaks presents a huge number of First Amendment issues, but the Trump White House has indicated such issues may be less of a hurdle than during previous administrations. "

    Unless the constitution has changed since he took office, the only way the hurdles should be any less is if he plans on ignoring said constitution.

    I can see that happening for some reason.

    1. Re: um... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      It seems just a random attack on Trump. Assange's risk is not new and will never go away.

    2. Re:um... by BlueStrat · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Unless the constitution has changed since he took office, the only way the hurdles should be any less is if he plans on ignoring said constitution.

      Obama would have violated the Constitution (he was trying to w/Assange and has a number of times while in office regarding other topics) in a heartbeat to prosecute Assange. It wouldn't matter who was POTUS or if they were (R) or (D). The US has become an authoritarian oligarchy. Oligarchies like the US and other authoritarian regimes will not tolerate having their misdeeds exposed and will go to extreme lengths to retaliate against any who dare, as we've seen both here with Assange and with Snowden.

      The US is no longer a nation of laws but of men with power. Government violates constitutional rights and responsibilities on a mass scale with almost no regard and little consequence. High crimes of the elites go unpunished while those who expose the wrongdoing are persecuted, prosecuted, and imprisoned or killed unless they seek asylum in a non-friendly foreign nation.

      This is no longer the United States. While we were all busy being apathetic and living life through the TV the US was replaced under our wide-as-a-La-Z-Boy asses with an elitist oligarchy.

      The only question now is, will we do anything about it besides whine using 140-character hashtag virtue-signaling?

      Strat

      --
      Progressivism (aka US 'Liberalism'): Ideas so good they need a police/surveillance-state to enforce.
    3. Re:um... by Maritz · · Score: 4, Insightful

      The US is no longer a nation of laws but of men with power.

      Hm. Tell that to the judge who smacked down Trump's muslim ban.

      There's no doubt Trump would love to implement something similar to Putin's kleptocracy, but he's stupid. So there's that.

      --
      I do not want your cheap brainburning drugs. They are useless for work. And I am a working man today.
    4. Re: um... by Zero__Kelvin · · Score: 0

      Your mistake is thinking he was democratically elected. He didn't win the popular vote.

      --
      Guns don't kill people; Physics kills people! - John Lithgow as Dick Solomon on Third Rock From The Sun
    5. Re: um... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      He was democratically elected. Democracies vary. It's not all about winning the popular vote.

    6. Re:um... by phayes · · Score: 5, Insightful

      It took Putin a while to beat down dissent. The sad part about Russia is that even though it was corrupt, they had a functional democracy and a free press for a few years. All murdered/imprisoned, now.

      --
      Democracy is a sheep and two wolves deciding what to have for lunch. Freedom is a well armed sheep contesting the issue
    7. Re:um... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      > There's no doubt Trump would love to implement something similar to Putin's kleptocracy, but he's stupid. So there's that.

      Be sure that other people, people far smarter than Trump but with similar authoritarian desires, are taking notes of what the Trump administration is capable of accomplishing.

      Checks and balances still exist in the US, but they can't and won't stand against the authoritarian administration who is both malevolent and competent. Thankfully for us, Trump's administration is stacked full of incompetence, but be sure that the people taking notes won't make the same mistake when their time comes.

    8. Re: um... by Zero__Kelvin · · Score: 2

      We don't live in a democracy. In theory we live in a Constitutional Republic. In practice we live in an Oligarchy. No matter how you argue it, he was certainly not democratically elected. HTH

      --
      Guns don't kill people; Physics kills people! - John Lithgow as Dick Solomon on Third Rock From The Sun
    9. Re: um... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Your mistake is thinking that the popular vote matters. Take a few minutes to learn about the electoral process in the Untied States.

    10. Re:um... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Tell that to the judge who smacked down Trump's muslim ban.

      That's in favour of the GP's point. That smackdown was little to do with the law, and everything to do with the American intelligentsia (including judges) despising Trump, and having the power to act on it.

    11. Re: um... by Zero__Kelvin · · Score: 1

      Your mistake is in thinking I wasn't saying exactly that: He wasn't democratically elected. Clinton was democratically elected and then Trump was installed by the Oligarchs.

      --
      Guns don't kill people; Physics kills people! - John Lithgow as Dick Solomon on Third Rock From The Sun
    12. Re: um... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Prove it. There is enough information from Snowden that the non-elected bureaucrats will tamper with information of elected individuals, fabricate information, and outright lie.

    13. Re: um... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You're still wrong. He was democratically elected. You continue under the false pretense that the people vote for the president. This may come as a surprise to you, but states elect the president, not the people. A state could set it up so that their governor chose where all that states electoral votes went without giving any say to the people of that state, and it would still be valid, because the state elects, not the people. He's the president of the united states, not of the united people. The peoples say comes from house of representatives. Hell, even the senators were selected by the governor up until one of the amendments which I can't be bothered to look up which one as I've not had any caffeine.

    14. Re:um... by Maritz · · Score: 1

      It's particularly sad that they largely seem to be quite so proud about all of that. I guess it's easier than facing up to the reality; you live in a monarchy now.

      --
      I do not want your cheap brainburning drugs. They are useless for work. And I am a working man today.
    15. Re:um... by Maritz · · Score: 0

      No, it's the constitution. He tried to make it look like the ban was on particular nations and not religious, but then the judges had the temerity to look into what he'd actually been saying. Yup, he's banning muslims.

      --
      I do not want your cheap brainburning drugs. They are useless for work. And I am a working man today.
    16. Re: um... by Zero__Kelvin · · Score: 1

      We get it. You don't know what the word "democratically" means. They taught you in civics class that we live in a democracy and you haven't yet figured out that they "dumbed it down" for you. What you described is indeed how are government works. The problem you have is that you think you have described a democracy. You have in fact described a Constitutional Republic, which is the form of government in the U.S. in theory.

      --
      Guns don't kill people; Physics kills people! - John Lithgow as Dick Solomon on Third Rock From The Sun
    17. Re:um... by squiggleslash · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Obama would have violated the Constitution (he was trying to w/Assange and has a number of times while in office regarding other topics) in a heartbeat to prosecute Assange

      So why didn't he? You talk as if Assange was holed up in an embassy throughout the entire Obama years. He wasn't.

      TBH, I don't think there was any strong desire to see Assange arrested and tried in the US by the Obama government. You can make all kinds of claims about the degree to which any US government, Obama, Bush, or Trump, was lawless, but actually imprisoning someone requires a trial, and it's far from clear there'd be any grounds and evidence to convict Assange. The most likely result of an unconstitutional extradiction followed by a trial on dubious charges is a humiliating acquittal.

      The claim Assange made was even more ridiculous: he was in hiding because Sweden would extradite him with the aim of then extraditing him to the US rather than prosecuting him for an actual crime they believe he committed. Why would the US want him for a flimsy trial they were unlikely to win if Sweden could actually imprison him legitimately? And if they really are that stupid, why wouldn't the UK just extradite to the US directly, given the UK is far more friendly to the US than Sweden is?

      --
      You are not alone. This is not normal. None of this is normal.
    18. Re: um... by TheRaven64 · · Score: 4, Informative

      You don't know what the word "democratically" means

      Not the GP, but in this thread the person who doesn't know what democracy means is you. Democracy means rule by the people (literally, by the city). Implementations of democracy are referred to as either direct democracy or indirect / representative democracy. In a direct democracy, eligible voters are permitted to decide issues directly. In a representative democracy, the people select, via some mechanism, representatives who decide issues on their behalf. Nothing in the definition of a representative democracy requires that the representatives be selected via a straight first-past-the-post single-constituency election.

      You seem to have been taught a fallacy that is common in the US, that a democracy and a republic are different and incompatible systems of government, rather than orthogonal aspects of a system of government (you can have a democratic monarchy and an authoritarian republic, for example, but you can also have a democratic republic).

      --
      I am TheRaven on Soylent News
    19. Re: um... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

      Theoretically communism and democracy isn't mutually exclusive. Theoretically.

      And there isn't any country currently that are pure democracies .... maybe Switzerland is close but not even theoretically pure.

      The truth is that we talk about these stuff with purist fervour, but the real question should be "what is the best mix?".

      Approach this thinking with a clear and open mind instead of blindly defending a religion.

      Democracy isn't a religion. It hasn't worked out for a whole bunch of African states because of corruption. Democracy alone doesn't address corruption by itself.... how do you implement safe guards to make sure your democracies work properly? How did democracy work out for Iraq?

      It would probably be better if we ruled Iraq like a colony and develop/exploit them until they are sufficiently stable. Thinking everyone would love and welcome freedom is just naive.... it's a culture than need to be developed.

    20. Re:um... by guises · · Score: 1

      Obama would have violated the Constitution (he was trying to w/Assange and has a number of times while in office regarding other topics) in a heartbeat to prosecute Assange.

      If there's anything that recent events should have thought you, it's that the president does not control the justice department.

    21. Re:um... by phayes · · Score: 1

      s/monarchy/fascist dictatorship/. North Korea is arguably a monarchy but I haven't heard a peep about the fruit of Putin's loins being primed to inherit his titles.

      --
      Democracy is a sheep and two wolves deciding what to have for lunch. Freedom is a well armed sheep contesting the issue
    22. Re:um... by dunkelfalke · · Score: 1

      I guess you have never heard of elective monarchy.

      --
      "It's such a fine line between stupid and clever" -- David St. Hubbins, Spinal Tap
    23. Re:um... by phayes · · Score: 1

      The Constitution doesn't enforce itself.

      --
      Democracy is a sheep and two wolves deciding what to have for lunch. Freedom is a well armed sheep contesting the issue
    24. Re:um... by dbIII · · Score: 2, Insightful

      You are writing as if the rule of law would be followed. Consider "extraordinary rendition" - Assange is considered to be in the same domain as the people who were subjected to that and not in the legal domain. The silly case that's never going to trial despite evidence being gathered was just a pretext, because the evidence is still not even enough to lay charges. He was going to be extradited for questioning about something that is not even a crime where you live and not for trial remember.

    25. Re:um... by dbIII · · Score: 1

      it's that the president does not control the justice department.

      Sometimes I'm not even sure he controls his own mouth.

    26. Re:um... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Obama did violate the constitution. He authorized unconstitutional wiretaps without judicial oversight.
      All that is besides the point. Assange fears extradition to the U.S. not because he fears the U.S. court system but because he quite justifiably fears that he will never see the U.S. mainland but rather would be imprisoned extralegally in someplace like GITMO. He knows that Wikileaks has embarrassed the U.S. intelligence community and people in the political class. He also knows that since no one has actually gone to jail for the crimes he has revealed that it is unlikely that his rights would be protected. He will never face a U.S. court, even if the U.S. gets him in custody.
      It's a shame that's true, but I believe it is.

    27. Re: um... by BlueStrat · · Score: 1, Redundant

      Yeah, I'm sick of the US just blindly following the democratically elected leader for 4 to 8 years.

      The President's purpose is not so much to wield power himself, but to distract attention away from actual power (the 'deep state'). A POTUS only has a certain range of options in any given circumstance, as he is restricted (besides any constitutional restrictions which may or may not be adhered to) by what he can get the 'deep state' to go along with.

      What happens when the POTUS attempts to act contrary to the agendas of the 'deep state'?

      JFK

      Strat

      --
      Progressivism (aka US 'Liberalism'): Ideas so good they need a police/surveillance-state to enforce.
    28. Re: um... by king+neckbeard · · Score: 1

      Republics and democracies are not mutually exclusive. In fact, in the last few hundred years, they've been pretty much mutually inclusive. That is, unless you are a pedantic asshole who thinks 'democracy' has to mean direct democracy, which nobody has used for centuries, outside of history books referring to Greek democracies.

      --
      This is my signature. There are many like it, but this one is mine.
    29. Re: um... by king+neckbeard · · Score: 1

      Constitutional limitations on power is supposed to differentiate our system from systems prior to the Magna Carta. The US Constitution's limitations of power are not supposed to be the final conclusion, it's the basis for a decent bare minimum of protections for the people and their rights.

      --
      This is my signature. There are many like it, but this one is mine.
    30. Re: um... by silentcoder · · Score: 2

      Oh and you know - Andalusia, Spain between 1920 and 1940...

      --
      Unicode killed the ASCII-art *
    31. Re: um... by penandpaper · · Score: 1

      This is ridiculous. The rules were well known in advance before the election that both parties agreed to. In the US, there is no such thing as a national vote. There is 50 different individual elections that Clinton lost a majority of by a majority. Clinton winning huge margins in a few large states isn't enough to win the presidency and that has NEVER been the case in American history. Trump was elected as per the Constitution. People voted for him in a majority of states. We are a union of states not a mob.

      If anyone was installed by Oligarchs in any election this last season it was Clinton with her super-delegates and using their backing to disenfranchise voters.

    32. Re: um... by penandpaper · · Score: 1

      Just like other forms of government Democracy has flaws. The structure of the US government was predicated on the fact that democracy, while laudable, has fundamental flaws that must be guarded against.

    33. Re: um... by Zero__Kelvin · · Score: 0

      I'm one of those "assholes" that thinks words have meanings, and those definitions matter. But you go ahead and keep being an apologist for the Oligarchy and feeding the the ignorant who think we live in a democracy with your faux definitions if it tickles your testicles.

      --
      Guns don't kill people; Physics kills people! - John Lithgow as Dick Solomon on Third Rock From The Sun
    34. Re: um... by Zero__Kelvin · · Score: 1

      What is ridiculous is that you think I said the rules weren't followed. The point is that we, the people, didn't make the rules.

      --
      Guns don't kill people; Physics kills people! - John Lithgow as Dick Solomon on Third Rock From The Sun
    35. Re: um... by Zero__Kelvin · · Score: 1

      Thank you for agreeing with me. It is about time at least one person realized that we don't live in a democracy.

      --
      Guns don't kill people; Physics kills people! - John Lithgow as Dick Solomon on Third Rock From The Sun
    36. Re:um... by phayes · · Score: 1

      Elective Monarchies are a transitory state, besides Fascist Dictatorship by the former/current members of the USSR's Intelligence communities is clearly a better fit. Current day Russia hits all the high and low notes of Fascism.

      From Wikipedia:
      Fascism /fæzm/ is a form of radical authoritarian nationalism, characterized by dictatorial power, forcible suppression of opposition, and control of industry and commerce ...
      Fascists believe that liberal democracy is obsolete, and they regard the complete mobilization of society under a totalitarian one-party state as necessary to prepare a nation for armed conflict and to respond effectively to economic difficulties. Such a state is led by a strong leader—such as a dictator and a martial government composed of the members of the governing fascist party—to forge national unity and maintain a stable and orderly society. Fascism rejects assertions that violence is automatically negative in nature and views political violence, war, and imperialism as means that can achieve national rejuvenation. Fascists advocate a mixed economy, with the principal goal of achieving autarky through protectionist and interventionist economic policies.

      --
      Democracy is a sheep and two wolves deciding what to have for lunch. Freedom is a well armed sheep contesting the issue
    37. Re: um... by penandpaper · · Score: 1

      Are you saying every 4 years we need to rewrite the constitution to meet your arbitrary and dangerous "the people didn't make the rules" standard??? WTF does that even mean???? the Constitution is the law of the land that decides how the POTUS is elected (via Electoral College). yet, you don't like that and are upset because you didn't make the rule? Ok, there is a way to change the constitution which requires a super majority to change. You are going to have to convince a lot of people that your ideas for governance are better than what the Founding Fathers came up with after their research and experimental US 1.0... Good luck.

      Your state can make the rules for how your Electoral votes are divided or used.

    38. Re: um... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      As other here will flock to tell you, we are not and never were a Democracy, we're a Democratic Republic.

      Out Founding Fathers wisely determined that the Tyranny of Mob Rule by the unwashed Masses was not a good thing (or, "good Thing", as it were back then - Benjamin Franklin would have worn out a lot of shift keys).

      Thus, we do not directly vote for laws or Presidents, we vote for proxies. This clever mechanism ensures that the uninformed majority doesn't elect whack jobs who could inflict grievous harm upon our Nation.

    39. Re:um... by phayes · · Score: 1

      Your citation of "extraordinary rendition" doesn't refute what squiggleslash wrote. If Obama or Bush for that matter had wanted Assange through external rendition, they would have had him. That they didn't just proves Assange's justifications to be straw men.

      --
      Democracy is a sheep and two wolves deciding what to have for lunch. Freedom is a well armed sheep contesting the issue
    40. Re:um... by dunkelfalke · · Score: 1

      That might be, but the current role of the orthodox church in Russia goes very clearly the same way as it used to be during the monarchy. I won't be surprised at all if Putin becomes "appointed by god" in a few years.

      --
      "It's such a fine line between stupid and clever" -- David St. Hubbins, Spinal Tap
    41. Re: um... by king+neckbeard · · Score: 1

      Yeah, and the words you are thinking are for the meaning you object to is "direct democracy," which as I said, basically nobody has talked about for centuries. I'm not being an apologist for the oligarchy, just this stupid piece of pedantics that seems to mostly arisen as a Republican talking point for positive name association. IMO, every living president except maybe Carter and the majority of their cabinets and congresses should be in prison, if not worse. I'm also not arguing that the electoral college is the ideal way of selecting POTUS. However, if your concern is adequate representation, instead of merely supporting Team Blue, then IRV/RCV will get more done. Most of the country hated both Clinton and Trump on election day, so neither would have been truly chosen 'by the people.'

      Basically every country that has freedom is 1)a democracy, 2) a republic 3) constitutionally or otherwise limited government. I'm sure there are a few limits, particularly if you count figurehead monarchs as not being republics, but it's pretty much a package deal.

      --
      This is my signature. There are many like it, but this one is mine.
    42. Re: um... by dunkelfalke · · Score: 1

      Russia had a functioning democracy from late 1991 to late 1993. Then Yeltzin (then-president) dissolved the parlament using tanks and grabbed all the power he could get.

      --
      "It's such a fine line between stupid and clever" -- David St. Hubbins, Spinal Tap
    43. Re: um... by peragrin · · Score: 1

      Yes and no the deep state doesn't exist. What does exist is an under current of ideas pushed up by various people who rise and fall out of favor with richer people getting heard more often.

      If you want a smaller version of this go join a committee for a local group( doesn't matter what). And then try to change that committee slightly. You may succeed you may not but if you are paying attention the tone of the committee changes with what you do.

      The same happens on large scale except the committee is made up of millions. And very few voices reach the top. However if those voices aren't in harmony of the group the disconnect is quiet real. That is where both republiacans and democrats are. Disconnected from reality. And it burned the democrats. And it done will burn the republicans.

      --
      i thought once I was found, but it was only a dream.
    44. Re:um... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Hahaha, "trial". Law holds no power over lawless, nor the lawmaker. Laws are only there to beat down anyone who attracts the displeasure of the ruling class. The US constitution was once a shining bastion of hope against this dreadful truth, but has long since been ground to dust by those who were sworn to uphold it.

      Based on the balance of available evidence, I think that Assange is probably a sex-fiend piece of shit, but the only reason these charges were brought at all was because he crossed the military-industrial complex. If it weren't more valuable to them to have a perpetually-disgraced Wikileaks figurehead as a symbol of what happens to those who speak out, he'd have "committed suicide" years ago, embassy or no.

    45. Re:um... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I don't think any of us knows enough about their operations in various countries to make such a statement.

      Both countries have conspired in rendition kidnappings and torture before; they suffered NO real consequences (what was it a $1million fine? Lol....may as well have been $1)

      They will do it again.

    46. Re: um... by TangoMargarine · · Score: 1

      Clinton winning huge margins in a few large states isn't enough to win the presidency and that has NEVER been the case in American history.

      One only needs to carry 11 states and 27% of the popular vote to win the presidency (you could also do it with 23% but more states). So yeah, it kind of has been the case.

      California 55
      Texas 38
      New York 29
      Florida 29
      Pennsylvania 20
      Illinois 20
      Ohio 18
      Michigan 16
      Georgia 16
      North Carolina 15
      New Jersey 14

      Of course, you don't need huge margins in this scenario, but 11 isn't too far away from "a few" in this context, I would say.

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    47. Re:um... by TangoMargarine · · Score: 1

      Elective Monarchies are a transitory state

      If 844 years is your idea of "transitory," sign me up! :-/

      --
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    48. Re:um... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Totalitarian programming strikes in complete disassociation with passing reality.

      It's few defenders are simply ignoring the accumulation of evidence and choosing to default back to grade school meanings.

      Yo dude the US kleptocracy is so entrenched and so institutionalized and now so global because of threat, intimidation and arbitrary sanctions/extrajudiciality that reducing it all to partisanship is really just the realm of the intellectual quitter. Esp when your foil in this new Cold War is leadership characteristics precisely like every last stupid western ally in the post war; authoritarian state theft schemes to support military dictatorships that the US could count on to buy US weapons.

      The Internet didn't make information simpler; a common mistake. Quite the opposite, made information much more difficult as there are many many more sources that actually require vetting and skills approach an academic level. If you choose not to spend the time and still rely on 'convenient' delivery (sitting in a airport and half remembering CNN closed captions, expensive suit reading AP stories on really expensive Skype, freebee newspaper left on a bus seat) then why would you think any different now than you did 20 30 or 70 yrs ago if you are always hitting the default and ending back in 1776 and some grade school diorama that was BS nationalist drivel to begin with...

      Nobody in the real free world is going to think Putin or Russia or China is worst than the walking human garbage your country, America. just sold arms to in what will easily been seen as the product of an AMERICAN kleptocracy.

    49. Re: um... by penandpaper · · Score: 1

      Very true. I guess I should have qualified my statement with "has never happened before" but I figured that was what was meant with "has never been the case". More often than not, the winner of the E.C. is the winner of the popular vote.

      It is possible but unlikely is a more accurate statement but as we have seen unlikely can happen. I think you can get a similar victory (win with very small popular vote) with winning majorities in lots of smaller states too.

      It is up to the states to decide how their votes are distributed. Maine and Nebraska(?) split their E.C. vote between congressional districts. That could avoid something like that.

    50. Re: um... by TangoMargarine · · Score: 1

      Yeah, the states not actually being required to cast their electoral votes for the winner of the popular vote is a little unsettling. It's crazy how much how the government works now vs. how it was originally intended to work has diverged over time.

      I would kind of like to see a slapfight break out over the NPVIC. I imagine if they get close to the necessary threshold things will get interesting.

      --
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    51. Re:um... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Oligarchies like the US and other authoritarian regimes will not tolerate having their misdeeds exposed and will go to extreme lengths to retaliate against any who dare, as we've seen both here with Assange and with Snowden.

      The US is no longer a nation of laws but of men with power. Government violates constitutional rights and responsibilities on a mass scale with almost no regard and little consequence. High crimes of the elites go unpunished while those who expose the wrongdoing are persecuted, prosecuted, and imprisoned or killed unless they seek asylum in a non-friendly foreign nation.

      Didn't Obama commute Chelsea Manning's sentence, or did we forget about that already?

    52. Re: um... by phayes · · Score: 1

      Yeltins Russia was highly corrupt but It wasn't until Putin was coming into power that Russia began to systematically kill and repress their reporters.

      --
      Democracy is a sheep and two wolves deciding what to have for lunch. Freedom is a well armed sheep contesting the issue
    53. Re:um... by phayes · · Score: 1

      Never said that there weren't exceptions. Are you trying to say that all elective monarchies have a supposed similar political composition that Putin's Russia matches better than it does a fascist dictatorship? Because otherwise, the point you're attempting to make is excessively obscure.

      --
      Democracy is a sheep and two wolves deciding what to have for lunch. Freedom is a well armed sheep contesting the issue
    54. Re: um... by Grishnakh · · Score: 1

      Thus, we do not directly vote for laws or Presidents, we vote for proxies. This clever mechanism ensures that the uninformed majority doesn't elect whack jobs who could inflict grievous harm upon our Nation.

      That's been proven wrong by the election of Trump. What you say was certainly the intent, but it's not the actual outcome. I suppose you could argue that without this "clever mechanism", we would have gotten more whack jobs throughout history than we have.

    55. Re: um... by ZorroXXX · · Score: 1

      Trying to come up with an exact definition of democracy is a completely meaningless exercise.

      So please stop trying to define democracy exactly in a discussion. It is a bad idea. Let's kill it.

      --
      When you are sure of something, you probably are wrong (search for "Unskilled and Unaware of It").
    56. Re:um... by TangoMargarine · · Score: 1

      Well, if we're going to get pedantic, "transitory" would also include ending at the heat death of the universe. You didn't use the word "all" but it seemed like a fair reading of your post.

      "Elective Monarchies are a transitory state" has subject-verb agreement problems, too, but now I'm just being spiteful :)

      Are you trying to say that all elective monarchies have a supposed similar political composition that Putin's Russia matches better than it does a fascist dictatorship? Because otherwise, the point you're attempting to make is excessively obscure.

      This entire thread has wandered off into the weeds of arguing about hair-splitting terminology differences. I'm not seeing that you have a high road to stand on here, to mangle a few metaphors. What is the difference between a monarchy and a dictatorship? Plenty of kings have gained power by killing anybody who would oppose them. Monarchy can be put on a sliding scale between absolute and constitutional. . . . Heck, back in ancient Rome they called the guy they appointed leader "dictator," but these days aren't dictators required to seize power? Cf. terrorist vs. freedom fighter.

      You started out with a good point but now there's a bunch of goalpost-moving going on. "it's a monarchy" "monarchies are just dictatorships" "what about elective ones" "those aren't real governments" "what about this counterexample" "go away"

      --
      Unity? Screw that: XFCE. Slashdot Beta? Screw that: SoylentNews. Australis? Screw that: Pale Moon. UX developers DIAF
    57. Re: um... by dunkelfalke · · Score: 1

      So shelling the parliament is okay, but freedom of the press is sacred? You have an interesting view of democracy.
      And by the way, killing journalists hasn't just started when Putin became president. Matter of fact, the highest profile murder of a journalist happened in 1995. Everything after was small potatoes in comparison.

      --
      "It's such a fine line between stupid and clever" -- David St. Hubbins, Spinal Tap
    58. Re:um... by Agripa · · Score: 1

      Unless the constitution has changed since he took office, the only way the hurdles should be any less is if he plans on ignoring said constitution.

      The Constitution was changed to create a federal prohibition of alcohol yet that was not necessary for other drugs including marijuana. What changed other than time?

    59. Re: um... by BlueStrat · · Score: 1

      What you say was certainly the intent, but it's not the actual outcome.

      That's just your opinion from the viewpoint of the losing Party. It actually worked perfectly. The unindicted-felon/warmongering candidate was not able to secure election despite widespread cheating and fraud in the Democrat primaries (which stole the win from Sanders who would have *trounced* Trump) and the nation may well have avoided WW3 and/or a civil war because of it.

      Strat

      --
      Progressivism (aka US 'Liberalism'): Ideas so good they need a police/surveillance-state to enforce.
    60. Re:um... by BlueStrat · · Score: 1

      No, it's the constitution. He tried to make it look like the ban was on particular nations and not religious, but then the judges had the temerity to look into what he'd actually been saying. Yup, he's banning muslims.

      Trump could have *said* he'd throw all muslims in the ovens. What was *said* is totally irrelevant does not matter. Only what the EO actually *orders in writing* is relevant and admissable. The EO was in no way a 'muslim ban' and there's no way to reasonably, logically interpret it that way. Nothing outside the text of the EO is relevant.

      That judge should be removed and disbarred for life for violating his oath and acting in a purely partisan-political matter like a common political hack willing to act outside the law.

      Strat

      --
      Progressivism (aka US 'Liberalism'): Ideas so good they need a police/surveillance-state to enforce.
    61. Re: um... by Grishnakh · · Score: 1

      No, it failed completely. Instead of getting the thoroughly corrupt person elected, we got the whack job. The guy who would have actually made a decent President was prevented from winning (or even running in the general election) because of the crappy election process and FPTP.

    62. Re: um... by phayes · · Score: 1

      What I said was "It wasn't until Putin was coming into power that Russia began to systematically kill and repress their reporters".
      Does that mean thet no reporters were targeted before he ruled unrivalled? No.
      Does that mean that I condone all actions by Russian leaders before his rise? No.
      Does that mean that you're dreaming up straw men? Very much so.

      You go ahead and play with your straw men all by yourself, they're your fantasies, not mine..

      --
      Democracy is a sheep and two wolves deciding what to have for lunch. Freedom is a well armed sheep contesting the issue
    63. Re:um... by phayes · · Score: 1

      I stated that Putin's Russia is closer to a Fascist Dictatorship than a monarchy and referenced the Wikipedia paragraphs that do indeed make that apparent.

      You call Russia an elected monarchy without ever stating what common element there is between elected monarchies & Russia. I ask you to detail how elected monarchies are arguably a better definition than fascist dictatorships and you sidestep, claiming moving goalposts. Given that I'm the only one who clearly defined what my definition is & why it is more apt, the goalpost manoeuvring is all on your your end of the field.

      --
      Democracy is a sheep and two wolves deciding what to have for lunch. Freedom is a well armed sheep contesting the issue
    64. Re:um... by TangoMargarine · · Score: 1

      You call Russia an elected monarchy

      Actually no, that was other posters; I just didn't argue the point.

      I ask you to detail how elected monarchies are arguably a better definition than fascist dictatorships and you sidestep

      No I didn't sidestep; I said that monarchies and dictatorships are a continuum, so I don't see that this argument means anything. Putin is rather authoritarian but he was elected so there's aspects of both ends.

      Given that I'm the only one who clearly defined what my definition

      Yeah, and I'm saying your definition is crap. The difference between a monarchy and a dictatorship isn't well-defined at all.

      --
      Unity? Screw that: XFCE. Slashdot Beta? Screw that: SoylentNews. Australis? Screw that: Pale Moon. UX developers DIAF
    65. Re:um... by phayes · · Score: 1

      Hadn't noticed that those replying to my posts had changed but then your claim of moving goalposts is even less coherent as you only came in a post or two ago.

      As for my definitions being crap, i referred to Wikipedia which, for non obscure subjects like fascist dictatorships is in phase with other references. You appear to contest that Russia is a FD but other than it being your unexplained opinion you refuse to say why. If you disagree you need to explain giving more than "My unsupported opinion is that"...

      --
      Democracy is a sheep and two wolves deciding what to have for lunch. Freedom is a well armed sheep contesting the issue
    66. Re:um... by TangoMargarine · · Score: 1

      Since you're obviously not listening to what I'm saying, I see no point in continuing this discussion.

      Good day, sir.

      --
      Unity? Screw that: XFCE. Slashdot Beta? Screw that: SoylentNews. Australis? Screw that: Pale Moon. UX developers DIAF
    67. Re:um... by phayes · · Score: 1

      Not agreeing with you != Not reading nor understanding what you've written. The problem is that you either refuse or cannot describe why Putin's Russia maps better to an Elective Monarchy rather than a Fascist Dictatorship

      As neither you nor dunkelfalke have ever given a clear definition, the point you and dunkelfalke were attempting to make is indeed of no interest whatsoever.

      --
      Democracy is a sheep and two wolves deciding what to have for lunch. Freedom is a well armed sheep contesting the issue
    68. Re: um... by Zero__Kelvin · · Score: 1

      Each person has a vote, each is weighted equally, and a majority wins. It really is that simple, despite what you may link to, or may have read or learned elsewhere.

      --
      Guns don't kill people; Physics kills people! - John Lithgow as Dick Solomon on Third Rock From The Sun
  3. Sweden, make up your mind by Calydor · · Score: 1

    It seems ridiculous that Sweden is effectively keeping their fingers crossed while saying they're dropping the charges. You know, unless he leaves the embassy so they can get him, then they'll immediately charge him again.

    Can someone in Sweden please clarify if this is legal?

    --
    -=This sig has nothing to do with my comment. Move along now=-
    1. Re:Sweden, make up your mind by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It does'nt matter if it is legal. If assenage is assassinated it begins the global need to assassinate every political body member of any type. If the truth is murdered the liars won't die soon enough.

      Kill Assanage start world war one:

    2. Re:Sweden, make up your mind by Sarten-X · · Score: 5, Interesting

      I'm not in Sweden, but from other more knowledgeable sources, I'm led to believe that this is indeed legal.

      Really, very little has changed. The charges have not been dropped. Rather, the case has been suspended. In fact, the official statement sounds more like Sweden is saying "there's nothing else to do unless he comes out", so they're not putting more resources into the investigation until new options present themselves.

      --
      You do not have a moral or legal right to do absolutely anything you want.
    3. Re:Sweden, make up your mind by arth1 · · Score: 4, Informative

      They're not dropping the charges. They're dropping the investigation and arrest warrant.

    4. Re:Sweden, make up your mind by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It seems ridiculous that Sweden is effectively keeping their fingers crossed while saying they're dropping the charges. You know, unless he leaves the embassy so they can get him, then they'll immediately charge him again.

      Can someone in Sweden please clarify if this is legal?

      It's not a matter of dropping the charges (after all, no charges has been formally presented), but of 'stopping' the investigation since there is no realistic route forward. Should things change so that there is a way forward (Ny mentioned Assange coming to Sweden, but clearly that's not the only way), the investigation would be restarted.

    5. Re:Sweden, make up your mind by geekpowa · · Score: 0

      Not ridiculous if there is a real case to be answered here. Statements from the prosecutor and from lawyer of the victim strongly suggest there is a case to be tested. Their sentiments about the allegation seem clear and sincere

      Consider a hypothetical just for a moment: Assange did commit rape and he knows he did it and he is using the pretext of being CIA backop'ed as an excuse to avoid standing trial for rape. Setting aside any attempt to measure probability of him being blackoped vs probability of him being a rapist and trying to avoid his day of reckoning, his current conduct is consistent with either possibility.

      As for being blackoped. Maybe that was a legitimate concern at the beginning of all this, I dunno. But right now, given all the scrutiny and attention that this has generated and the likely amount of blowback such an action now risks causing it really stretches credibility that this is still a possibility. Even now there is talk of filing charges for wikileaks activity and it now appears to be running through some judicial preparation so it will receive proper judicial oversight and people commenting on this are saying it is not possible to construct charges that are likely to hold up. No clock and dagger spystuff here, it's all in the open and sentiment seems quite pessimistic that anything will come of it.

      As for being a rapist. The counter argument highlighting dithering by his accusers is weak sauce. Rapes and sexual assaults do fail to goto trial because the pressure and scrutiny and stress of a court case for victims reliving those events, or having to deal with criticism of people defending the accused, of which there has been a significant amount of that in this instance.

    6. Re:Sweden, make up your mind by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      > Consider a hypothetical just for a moment: Assange did commit rape and he knows he did it and he is using the pretext of being CIA backop'ed as an excuse to avoid standing trial for rape. Setting aside any attempt to measure probability of him being blackoped vs probability of him being a rapist and trying to avoid his day of reckoning, his current conduct is consistent with either possibility.

      Translating the charge against him to "rape" is already fucked up.

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assange_v_Swedish_Prosecution_Authority

      It's technically a charge of "lesser rape"- we wouldn't call it rape in the English speaking world. Sweden has three types of "rape" on their laws, only one of which we would call rape, and the least serious of which is what Assange is accused of. The bigger issue is, if he did it, why did both of the girls go on record as not wanting him charged with anything?

      http://www.reuters.com/article/us-wikileaks-assange-charges-idUSTRE6B669H20101207

      > to avoid standing trial for rape

      Lets say he did go to Sweden for his charge of "rape, lesser serious crime". And lets say he got found guilty. And lets say he got the maximum sentence.

      He'd have been out of jail by now. Being jailed for four years (at most), with two witnesses who claim he did NOT rape them, he'd have been out last year.

      So no, rightly or wrongly he fears for his life. Notice that the entire schtick about how the US has no intention of charging him has subtly changed over the last year.

    7. Re:Sweden, make up your mind by arth1 · · Score: 4, Informative

      It's not a matter of dropping the charges (after all, no charges has been formally presented)

      Yes and no. The Swedish system differs from the American system most here are familiar with, and distinguishes between "häktad" (arrest charge) and "åtalad" (trial charge). The US system doesn't have a two-tier system and treats informal and formal arrest the same, requiring a trial charge and court order for keeping the person jailed during investigation.

    8. Re:Sweden, make up your mind by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "the likely amount of blowback such an action now risks"
      In effect any political actor seeking the blowback might want to frame an assassination (attempt).

      US can get him killed either by doing it themselves or by pretending to pile political importance of getting him to justice. The more important he seems to be to the US, the bigger the risk of some other actor doing it and framing US.

      Either way, to common news reading folk the end result will look the same: US did it.

    9. Re:Sweden, make up your mind by geekpowa · · Score: 1

      http://www.reuters.com/article/us-wikileaks-assange-charges-idUSTRE6B669H20101207

      Thats a 6 1/2 year old article. Yes back then the allegations were sexual misconduct. My understanding is that allegations have now evolved to one allegation of rape.

      Really it is hard to hell which narrative is the accurate one. Maybe one day he'll eventually make it to Ecuador live to a ripe old age and idly watch the world turn and we'll never be the wiser as to what alternative narrative was real. More likely at some point something will come to a head and he will end up in custody sometime in the near future. Being holed up in the embassy for 7 years, by his choice, I am sure he has contemplated these competing narratives and constantly reassessed their probability curves more times than everyone else on the planet combined and has consistently arrived at the position that the best place for himself is to stay within the embassy for now.

    10. Re:Sweden, make up your mind by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      > Yes back then the allegations were sexual misconduct. My understanding is that allegations have now evolved to one allegation of rape.

      Nope. Check again.

    11. Re:Sweden, make up your mind by geekpowa · · Score: 1

      I did check. All media outlets are reporting it as a rape investigation.

      And here. https://www.nytimes.com/2017/0... we have this:

      His Swedish accuser, through her lawyer, decried the decision. “It is a scandal that a suspected rapist can escape justice and thereby avoid the courts,” the lawyer, Elisabeth Fritz, said in a statement to news agencies. “My client is shocked.”

      There is this tho which is really interesting. https://www.theguardian.com/me.... Content of this I agree strongly suggests there was no significant change in allegations leveled inspite of the R word being thrown around in the media over recent events so I need to retract my prior comments about this and revisit my thinking on this.

    12. Re:Sweden, make up your mind by geekpowa · · Score: 1

      Dammit, the guardian article is old too. So all that is one the table at this moment is comment from lawyer of accuser, who doesn't mince words. There is nothing I can find that contradicts this position.

    13. Re:Sweden, make up your mind by Richard_at_work · · Score: 4, Informative

      Translating the charge against him to "rape" is already fucked up.

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assange_v_Swedish_Prosecution_Authority

      It's technically a charge of "lesser rape"- we wouldn't call it rape in the English speaking world. Sweden has three types of "rape" on their laws, only one of which we would call rape, and the least serious of which is what Assange is accused of.

      This is a common argument made by Assange supporters - that the "rape" allegation is only "rape" in Sweden.

      Its a bullshit argument.

      Here in the UK, for extraditions to be approved by the court, the reasons for extradition need to meet the "dual criminality" test - they need to be equitable crimes here in the UK, and if they are not then the extradition is not carried out.

      Assanges lawyers tried arguing that "its only rape in Sweden" to the UK High Court during their appeal in July 2011 - the court threw their arguments out, giving a lengthy ruling on this very exact issue:

      See points 104 to 127 in the High Court ruling - the court spends five and a half pages giving its reasons why the court has judged that the fourth offence being considered against him is also considered "rape" in the UK.

      Five and a half pages. And that doesn't even count the pages spent giving reasonings for the other three offences being considered!

      And yet people like you still use the "its only rape in Sweden" line!

    14. Re: Sweden, make up your mind by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The investigation I understand, but is there any reason to drop the arrest warrant? Like, does it actively cost money to keep it open?

    15. Re: Sweden, make up your mind by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The prosecutor basicky said that she is not going to work any more on the case since she fell that she do not have enough information for a convicted sentence.

      As things are now she have no more options to get anything more so what would be the point to work on it?

      But yes no one is dropping the case if she dont do anything for 10years then the case is to old.

      I dont think they would declare him inocent and put it down becus that would send the message that hiding is a get out of jail freecard

    16. Re:Sweden, make up your mind by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Nope, they don't use that claim, they use "the act Assange was accused of was not rape as we call it in our legal system". Even the women who were claimed to have been raped have said it was not rape and dropped the charges when they found out.

      There's still a stigma attached to being raped for women (not as much as for men, but still a stigma), and that stigma is massively increased when the rape was followed by further sexual acts and breakfast. People will tend to think you're a gold-digging slut when that scenario is made.

      It wasn't rape.

      Only the prosecutor says so, the victims don't, and our laws would not call it rape either.

    17. Re:Sweden, make up your mind by Richard_at_work · · Score: 1

      You really haven't read *anything* from the link which I posted, have you?

      You have your crusade and you want to pursue it blindly, that much is obvious.

      Reading the actual court documents is very *very* revealing, by the way - it throws much of Assange supporters claims right out the window. Such as basically your entire post.

    18. Re:Sweden, make up your mind by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Sweden have an embassy in London. Why would they not send a couple of their people up the road and interview him? The Swedish stubbornness has cost the UK tax payer over £50,000,000 to date. That's a bloody disgrace, regardless of what anyone thinks about Assange and his activities.

    19. Re:Sweden, make up your mind by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No, I did not. But I have read scores of other links, including the translated court documents and the police reports, along with the reports of Swedish lawyers on the subject and that is what informed my post.
      But you have your cherry picked biased source and you wil not move from it because it says someone you don't like was doing something you don't like and therefore it must be real.

      1) Only the prosecutor claims it was rape.
      2) The victims say it wasn't.
      3) The victims dropped the charges when they were told it was going to be a rape charge
      4) The actions were not rape in the UK, where the EAW was enacted
      5) The UK law courts only decided whether the EAW being written by the prosecutor not the judge (you know, as in an actual arrest being required) was legal, NOT whether it was likely rape, that was specifically off the cards for the law lords to determine.

      Just because I don't believe your BS doesn't mean I'm on a crusade. I'm just sticking to reality.

    20. Re:Sweden, make up your mind by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      Sweden have an embassy in London. Why would they not send a couple of their people up the road and interview him?

      To be fair, they did do that once. To be equally fair, Assange was not permitted access to his lawyer on that occasion, a clear violation of his civil rights.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    21. Re:Sweden, make up your mind by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      The US system doesn't have a two-tier system and treats informal and formal arrest the same, requiring a trial charge and court order for keeping the person jailed during investigation.

      Yes, here you actually need reason to believe a crime has been committed in order to incarcerate someone. That seems superior to me.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    22. Re:Sweden, make up your mind by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      As an adendum, what evidence was supplied to prove it was rape?

      None.

      Merely the prosecutors word of what happened. Not even the statements of the women purportedly raped.

      Indeed the reason why it was supposed to be a Judge filling out the EAW was so that the foreign court did not have to judge the evidence to see if it would be a crime therefore valid extradition: the court of the foreign power had the evidence and considered it valid to present to a jury, the local court could accept it as professional courtesy.

      And lastly, if Sweden saying they weren't arresting Assange (with the asinine idiots like yourself claiming they can't do that until they are face-to-face with the person being arrested, which is complete bollocks), why are they issuing an European ARREST Warrant? Assange, according to the Swedish courts, is not being arrested for a crime in Sweden.

      Sweden "dropped" the case not because the prosecutor (whose hubby is a big figure in the USA) thinks it pointless but because the ECHJ were going to rule on the illegality of the actions and smack Sweden down for it.

    23. Re:Sweden, make up your mind by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This is why I refuse to even talk about these confounding issues. Only a few facts really matter, and none of them have to do with the content of the allegation.

      1. Sweeden has no credibility as a country that cares about justice. They broke their own laws to help CIA torturers kidnap people off their own streets. They are no country of laws or justice. Not extradition....rendition aka Kidnaping. No due process....just black bags and torture.

      2. The level of interest and lack of reasonable cooperation (not being willing to meet him for interviews with a lawer present unless he exposes himself to CIA rendition.

      That is it. If a rape happened, and if justice is not being done....it is Sweden's fault for putting themselves and their people in this position with this reputation. If the allegations are real, the victims have been victimized twice....once by the state; when it gave up its credibility as a country of laws.

    24. Re:Sweden, make up your mind by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Problem is, nothing changes the fact that Sweeden is not a country of laws and justice; they have broken their own laws participating in CIA rendition. Not extradition, not any kind of due processs; just kidnapping off the street.

      All the rest is secondary when talking about a regime like sweeden. You may as well tell me North Korea accuses him of something.

    25. Re:Sweden, make up your mind by stealth_finger · · Score: 1

      The Swedish stubbornness has cost the UK tax payer over £50,000,000 to date.

      I'll take what is numbers pulled from your ass.

      --
      Wanna buy a shirt?
      https://www.redbubble.com/people/stealthfinger/shop?asc=u
    26. Re:Sweden, make up your mind by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Your argument is bogus since you cannot find ANY country in the world which doen't have a history where human rights have been violated at one time.

      Yes, there were unlawful renditions. These gained enough publicity that any official facilitating future renditions will commit political suicide.

      I do not know what country you live in, but I bet that your country is no better than Sweden and your credibility is piss poor in comparison.

    27. Re:Sweden, make up your mind by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

      I live in Sweden and you are partly correct.
      The charges have been dropped, but the reason is because they cannot get any further in the investigation. This is quite common practise, unfortunately, and it means that if that condition changes (for example if Assange would turn up in Sweden) they might find that they can get further and can reopen it.
      So you might want to call it suspended but the case is dropped and there are no current charges against him, but that could change at any time if the circumstances change.
      I guess the most important thing here is that:
      1. He is still innocent and has no serious charges against him atm (only the escaping bail in England)
      2. The European warrant is withdrawn so other EU-countries have no obligation to arrest him based on that
      3. Sweden have no longer anything to say if Britain or any other EU country managed to get to him and want to extradite him to US

      This means that it might be easier for England to extradite him to US. It also means that England has less serious charges against him and, if no other secret legal orders exist, they are much more likely to let him go as the proportions of the operation to keep him in the embassy is way of the charts at the moment.

    28. Re:Sweden, make up your mind by arth1 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Yes, here you actually need reason to believe a crime has been committed in order to incarcerate someone. That seems superior to me.

      You need that in Sweden too. The difference is that Sweden does not have a conveyor belt system of trial court judges that rubberstamps arraignments and arrest orders for cases they have no background knowledge about.
      Because the arrest charges can differ from the trial charges, there's less of the American practice of tossing everything you can on the wall in the hope that enough sticks.
      There's also a safeguard in that can sue for restitution for the time spent jailed if the case doesn't go to court. So it's not done lightly. In fact, that it isn't done lightly is what allowed Assange to leave the country.

    29. Re:Sweden, make up your mind by Cederic · · Score: 3, Informative

      But you have your cherry picked biased source and you wil not move from it because it says someone you don't like was doing something you don't like and therefore it must be real.

      His 'cherry picked biased source' is the fucking high court ruling. That's the decision in law on whether

      1) Only the prosecutor claims it was rape.

      and says that no, not only the prosecutor claims it was rape, and

      4) The actions were not rape in the UK, where the EAW was enacted

      to which it demonstrates through law, legal precedent and the known descriptions of the acts which took place, that the acts would justify an accusation of rape under UK law.

      5) The UK law courts only decided whether the EAW being written by the prosecutor not the judge (you know, as in an actual arrest being required) was legal, NOT whether it was likely rape, that was specifically off the cards for the law lords to determine.

      That's because they had to rule on the legality of the EAW, and not pass judgement on whether the acts described were actually rape. To answer the legality they did ascertain whether an act as described would be rape in the UK and confirmed that it would.

      That does not mean that the act took place as described, or that it would result in a criminal conviction.

      I have read scores of other links, including the translated court documents

      But not the one in its original English that you're claiming is cherry picked and biased. This doesn't reflect well on you.

    30. Re:Sweden, make up your mind by jeremyp · · Score: 2

      What are his civil rights under Ecuador law?

      --
      All I want is a secure system where it's easy to do anything I want. Is that too much to ask ~~ Randall Munroe
    31. Re:Sweden, make up your mind by jeremyp · · Score: 1

      It was only £12 million up to the point where the police scaled back their surveillance in 2015.

      --
      All I want is a secure system where it's easy to do anything I want. Is that too much to ask ~~ Randall Munroe
    32. Re: Sweden, make up your mind by Cederic · · Score: 1

      He would still claim it was concentration

      Autocorrect, mistranslation or am I completely missing an interpretation here?

    33. Re:Sweden, make up your mind by Richard_at_work · · Score: 1, Informative

      Basically all of your points can be dismissed by simply reading the court ruling that I linked to in my previous post.

      Perhaps you should try that, rather than look like a fucking idiot time and again...

      No evidence of rape is required to be supplied, as the case being heard was not the case that was trying that evidence - it was a case that was trying the validity of the arrest warrant and extradition request, and both of those things were found to be valid. This is covered in the court ruling I linked to.

      There is no requirement for a *judge* to issue the EAW, none at all - the treaty that covers the EAW is very specific in what it requires, and it basically leaves the validity of the issuing authority up to the issuing country, and the Swedes allow the prosecutor to issue it.

      Swedens legal situation regarding why they needed extradition is well established, and discussed in the court ruling I linked to.

      And just what, exactly is the "ECHJ"? Do you mean the European Court of Human Rights? I'm not sure how you expect them to rule on a case that has never been petitioned for them to take...

    34. Re:Sweden, make up your mind by Richard_at_work · · Score: 1

      I'm sure you have told a lie in your past, does that make you perpetually dishonest and unemployable for your entire life?

      What Sweden does with regard to the CIA has nothing to do with the legality of this case.

    35. Re:Sweden, make up your mind by jeremyp · · Score: 1

      The British court ruled that the crime of which Assange was accused, constituted rape. They made no evaluation on whether Assange was guilty tor not. That would be for the Swedish courts to decide.

      Whatever you think about the merits of the case that Sweden had, Assange clearly took it seriously because he did a runner. He obviously had no confidence that he could defend the charges.

      --
      All I want is a secure system where it's easy to do anything I want. Is that too much to ask ~~ Randall Munroe
    36. Re:Sweden, make up your mind by Richard_at_work · · Score: 1

      4) The actions were not rape in the UK, where the EAW was enacted

      I don't even need to respond to any of your other points, because this claim right here indicates that you know absolutely nothing about the case, you refuse to actually read and understand the rulings as handed down by the proper courts, and basically you look like a fool as a result.

      Perhaps you should read the link I posted - its the only one that matters.

      Its not BS if its in the court ruling, and its right there in the court ruling, exactly where I say it is - I even give you the relevant portions of the ruling for you to go and read, and yet you still argue completely the opposite.

      That, my friend, is the very definition of a bullshit argument.

    37. Re:Sweden, make up your mind by Richard_at_work · · Score: 1

      Oh, and by the way, when you cite the High Court fucking Ruling on the case, its not a "cherry picked biased source", its the PRIMARY FUCKING SOURCE.

    38. Re:Sweden, make up your mind by squiggleslash · · Score: 1

      Yeah, the "charges were dropped because we're unable to continue the investigation for now" thing seems mostly third party spin, analogous to "MP3 is dead because they're not offering licenses for it any more."

      --
      You are not alone. This is not normal. None of this is normal.
    39. Re: Sweden, make up your mind by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "Its not BS if its in the court ruling"

      Different AC here. I'll save this quote for future use. ðY(TM)

    40. Re:Sweden, make up your mind by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      His cherry picked biased source was a court who was told not to rule on whether rape had happened but whether the accusations made were rape.

      Since the prosecutor said it was rape when all the court evidence was it was not (you know, the testimony of the victims), and since the court has insisted it does not want to arrest him (yet), the court is biased by its remit being neutered into only two questions:

      1) Is an EAW valid if it is written solely by the prosectutor with no judicial oversight?
      2) Is the claims made in the EAW, whether or not they are supported by evidence, equivalent to rape in the UK therefore an extraditable offence.

      Since what happened was not what was claimed, for example "she was sleeping and he fucked her till she woke" which was NOT the woman's take on it, she was sleepy, not sleeping, the court was biased because their information was biased.

      If someone reads on Breibart how the jews are girding up to WW3, are they bigoted if they believe it? YES. Because they're not supposed to take that stuff as-is.

      Judges should even more so.

      Hence the edict on what the court was allowed to rule on being so limited.

    41. Re: Sweden, make up your mind by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The evidence clearly indicates that jeremyp used "tor".

      It is a fact. Just check your post.

      Different AC here. The point is, that without evidence being presented or shared in context and in total, it's not necessarily a valid assessment or a valid decision.

    42. Re:Sweden, make up your mind by XXongo · · Score: 1

      Sweden have an embassy in London. Why would they not send a couple of their people up the road and interview him?

      Did you read the article? They could and they did. The Ecuadorian's conditions for the interview were that all the questions had to be submitted beforehand, in writing, in Spanish, that they would vet the questions, and that there would be no follow-up questions.

    43. Re:Sweden, make up your mind by phayes · · Score: 2

      Lest we forget: His present conditions and the preconditions imposed during the interview are entirely of his own making.

      --
      Democracy is a sheep and two wolves deciding what to have for lunch. Freedom is a well armed sheep contesting the issue
    44. Re: Sweden, make up your mind by arth1 · · Score: 1

      The investigation I understand, but is there any reason to drop the arrest warrant? Like, does it actively cost money to keep it open?

      I think the reason is that a Europol Arrest Warning requires there to be an ongoing criminal prosecution.

    45. Re:Sweden, make up your mind by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Sweden misspelled Sweeden? Defending Putin's mouthpiece? Harping on minor points instead of addressing the main issue?

      GPP is a PutinBot

    46. Re:Sweden, make up your mind by dbIII · · Score: 2

      The charges have not been dropped

      He's never been charged so how can they be dropped?

    47. Re:Sweden, make up your mind by dbIII · · Score: 1

      Yes back then the allegations were sexual misconduct. My understanding is that allegations have now evolved to one allegation of rape.

      Different translations of the same thing - translated as 4th degree rape which doesn't have a corresponding crime in the USA so sexual misconduct kind of fits. It sounds worse as rape even though it wouldn't be called that anywhere in English but it's handy to inflate the supposed crime for those who want to push an agenda to punish a publisher of inconvenient leaks.

    48. Re:Sweden, make up your mind by dbIII · · Score: 1

      What Sweden does with regard to the CIA has nothing to do with the legality of this case.

      It has nothing to do with legality but everything to do with why Assange says was the reason he absconded. Maybe he's paranoid about expecting the Swedish authorities to hand him over to be flown out by the CIA and tortured, but they've done it to at least two people before.

    49. Re: Sweden, make up your mind by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Want a hint? The women do not raise or drop the charges. That's not even remotely close to how it works.

    50. Re: Sweden, make up your mind by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Thank goodness we always have wonderful, freedom loving individuals in power.

    51. Re:Sweden, make up your mind by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "hand over" hardly captured what they really do. CIA literally kidnaps people off the street and sweeden allowed them to and helped them.

      I think it does have something to do with legality, since it is PROOF sweeden is NOT a country of laws. Legality is irrelevant if the government itself feels its ok to just look the other way when it suits them.

    52. Re:Sweden, make up your mind by Grishnakh · · Score: 1

      I'm sure you have told a lie in your past, does that make you perpetually dishonest and unemployable for your entire life?

      If you refuse to own up to the lie and apologize for it, then yes.

    53. Re:Sweden, make up your mind by david_thornley · · Score: 1

      So why did he go to Sweden in the first place?

      --
      "When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
    54. Re:Sweden, make up your mind by dbIII · · Score: 1
      Ironically to try to take advantage of journalism "shield laws" when politicians in the US (eg. Hillary) starting making noise about taking action against him.
      From an article on Crikey.com by Guy Rundle:

      Before the accusation, Assange had come to Sweden to base WikiLeaks there and take advantage of Sweden’s shield laws protecting whistleblowers. Such protection required a residency and work permit; the ongoing accusations made those impossible to obtain. There is no question that the US would have started to withhold intelligence from Sweden if Assange had gained those protections — withholding of intel is the US’ big stick, waved around repeatedly (for example, on the weekend of November 8 and 9, 1975, two days before Whitlam was sacked) — at a time when Sweden wanted to be closer in the US embrace. The intent is bare-faced, obvious. It worked in part, by dividing Assange’s supporters on the very sort of issues they care most about. In that respect, they need to support Julian Assange 100% in getting free passage to Ecuador, regardless of their opinion of his recent political choices, not from the other side, out of regard to his slightly exaggerated public persona, but simply because the last seven years have always been a stitch-up.

      The full article is available at (http://www.crikey.com.au). It's a subscription news site but they let you read for a week for free so you'll be able to read it after requesting a temporary login.

  4. Bizarre by Gravis+Zero · · Score: 4, Informative

    Maybe it's just me but I think it's bizarre that the US wants prosecute someone that was never in their jurisdiction nor attempted to help one country over another. It wreaks of tyranny.

    --
    Anons need not reply. Questions end with a question mark.
    1. Re:Bizarre by gl4ss · · Score: 4, Informative

      Why do you think that's bizarre?

      US is routinely acting as an order by phone hitman for various governments, where there has been no attempt to arrest and prosecute the target before flaming them up with a hellfire missile without a trial, in areas and countries that are not deemed to be warzones(as far as refugee statuses go at least).

      Majority of the targets are labeled as terrorists(anyone opposing the local authority who has the phone line to USA is an terrorist, mind you) and USA has no way of verifying any of that - indeed majority of the targets are in fact just local tribe leaders(some of them bad, objectively) and the bombings are just acting as a scapegoat hitman in local politics of the region - and if some of those local tribes then consider them to be in war with USA, who can blame them?

      compared to that, them having a secret warrant for his arrest sounds downright civilized.

      --
      world was created 5 seconds before this post as it is.
    2. Re:Bizarre by BlueStrat · · Score: 2

      Maybe it's just me but I think it's bizarre that the US wants prosecute someone that was never in their jurisdiction nor attempted to help one country over another. It wreaks of tyranny.

      As Bruce Willis in "Die Hard" said; "Welcome to the party, pal." I see that your MSM-delivered "Soma" has worn off. Grab a weapon and get in the trenches!

      Strat

      --
      Progressivism (aka US 'Liberalism'): Ideas so good they need a police/surveillance-state to enforce.
    3. Re:Bizarre by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      "some of them bad, objectively"
      How would we know? All we have is untrused news sources and anonymous web writings. We can not confirm much of anything.

    4. Re:Bizarre by arth1 · · Score: 2

      "Due process" is a nice concept. And I believe it is required in all cases except where congress has declared war on a country, or it's in immediate self-defense.

      So we must conclude that we're at war with Eurasia, as we've always been.

    5. Re:Bizarre by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It comes down to two things.
      1. The guy has broken a stack of laws by publishing classified documents etc.
      2. If you want to put deter others from doing similar then need to make some examples. Smack some hands.

      Just as we can see with the China incident in the news, this stuff gets people killed. So if you want to stop it you need to stop people at all levels got to stop people doing this for money fame country (foreign) or ideals. If you cannot stop them (and you cannot) then you need to minimise it and deter those who would do this.
      The only thing that surprises me here is that they don't just send special forces in and grab him or kill him. Most people think this kind of crap is a joke at best but it is more than about what he has done it is also about the trend setting.

    6. Re:Bizarre by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      After Assange is dealt with, next in line are the journalists who published any related material.. The tyranny-temperature is being measured as we speak.

    7. Re:Bizarre by dwillden · · Score: 1

      Or rather it reeks of the Media, which is strangely willing to let Mrs. Clinton slide by for failing to protect classified information, trying to claim that the US has any interest or ability to try him.

      We have no grounds. As you noted, he is not in our jurisdiction. Nor did he actively solicit the information he published. It was handed to him by others who chose of their own free will to steal classified information they were entrusted with. Those individuals (Bradley Manning and Snowden for example) were not approached by Assange with any offer of payment or compensation for the information, or even just asked for it by him. They chose to provide the information on their own, they chose him because they knew WikiLeaks would publish the information thus causing harm to the US.

      The US has no basis for any charges. Any claim to the otherwise is the media or their "anonymous sources" making things up to sound relevant and informed.

      --
      I'm too lazy to compose a creative sig.
    8. Re:Bizarre by Gravis+Zero · · Score: 1

      the Media, which is strangely willing to let Mrs. Clinton slide by for failing to protect classified information

      LOL! What does she have to do with anything? Are you one of those people that got stuck in the past? Do you want to talk about how Trump had a "larger" inauguration crowd too?

      --
      Anons need not reply. Questions end with a question mark.
    9. Re:Bizarre by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's simple, everyone gets the same "Due Process" bin Laden got....

    10. Re:Bizarre by Cederic · · Score: 1

      The only thing that surprises me here is that they don't just send special forces in and grab him or kill him

      Even the US don't want to do that in the UK. We could seriously hurt them, and they know it.

    11. Re:Bizarre by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So sayeth the AC Putinbot happy in a Russia that assassinates all reporters that dare investigate him.

    12. Re:Bizarre by PPH · · Score: 1

      1. The guy has broken a stack of laws by publishing classified documents etc.

      What laws? Where? Assange is not a US citizen and was not within US jurisdiction (no matter that the US thinks the world is under it's authority) when he published Manning's leaks. And there is no law here preventing the publication of that material once it was leaked. See The Pentagon Papers. Chelsea (Brad) Manning was found guilty of leaking documents and did time for it.

      --
      Have gnu, will travel.
    13. Re:Bizarre by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Are you accusing Gravis Zero as being Putinbot!!?? The horror is real, and the tyramperature is high!!

    14. Re:Bizarre by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Well you know, it is Justice becuase its Just US who decides when the law applies and when it doesn't.

    15. Re:Bizarre by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Is there any sign that the US does want to prosecute him?

      This article mentions a 'former' official who, despite being 'former', still won't put their name to their speculation - and it is only speculation, even with all those caveats it still doesn't rise to the level of actual testimony. That's pretty weak evidence.

    16. Re:Bizarre by david_thornley · · Score: 1

      Assange did not break a stack of US laws by publishing classified US documents. That is perfectly legal in the US. What's illegal is leaking them or assisting in such a leak. If Manning got the documents without Assange's assistance and handed them to Assange for publication, Assange has not committed a crime against the US.

      Nor have I seen evidence that the US actually wants to get Assange, as opposed to making angry noises. What would we do with him? Doing anything other than due process would be politically bad, and we almost certainly don't have evidence to convict him.

      --
      "When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
  5. No can spel by Gravis+Zero · · Score: 1

    reeks*

    --
    Anons need not reply. Questions end with a question mark.
  6. Secret justice by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

    The US secret justice system, with secret orders, inquiries, etc is really a beautiful mark of democracy...

  7. Ny playing politics by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

    It sounds like Ny playing politics.

    Ny: "Dropping the investigation is not a result of deciding he is not guilty, Ny added -- it's because there's no practical way to continue it. "

    The woman only pressed charges when he refused an aids test, and she cannot remove consent AFTER THE FACT, which is what her and Ny tried to do. She cannot change it to conditional consent either, after the fact. i.e. its OK to have sex without a condom as long as you have an aid test afterwards, made no sense.

    Ny should be more professional and less political.

    As for Assange, he evaded the extradition and will face charges from that. In the USA, he's simply a conduit for Russian propaganda leakers, if he wasn't the conduit, some other conduit would be used. If it was PasteBin, would PasteBin be prosecuted? Nothing to see there.

    1. Re:Ny playing politics by mvdwege · · Score: 4, Insightful

      she cannot remove consent AFTER THE FACT

      That's begging the question. Of course she can, if the consent was given on false information or under duress. That is why there is a case to be answered in the first place, to establish that, using proper procedures, in a court of law.

      --
      "I know I will be modded down for this": where's the option '-1, Asking for it'?
    2. Re:Ny playing politics by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What do you mean "the woman only pressed charges when he refused an aids test"?

      If the woman didn't actually pressed charges, but instead the police did, you would be lying here. And if she did press charges, somebody please remind me so that I can try find a source for such a claim.

      As I understand it, the woman went to the police, though I am not sure it was to press charges, and given how the Swedish police as by themselves called for an investigation of Assange on their own initiative, yet, as I see it, without having charged Assange, this "pressed charges" sounds odd to me, as if the woman actually pressed charges and not the Swedish police.

      As I understand it, she wanted to force Assange to take an aids test, not "charge him". Which is why what you wrote seems wrong to me.

    3. Re:Ny playing politics by cardpuncher · · Score: 2

      It sounds like Ny playing politics.

      Firstly, the Swedish Prosecution Authority is not politically appointed in the way, say, a US District Attorney is.

      Secondly, it's the duty of the law enforcement authorities to investigate complaints and bring prosecutions where there is reasonable grounds to do so.

      All that has happened here is that the prosecutor has said there's nothing further to be done with the case at present as the investigation is effectively stalled while one party is inaccessible as he is refugee from justice abetted by a nation state. It's Ecuador that's playing politics here, not Sweden.

    4. Re:Ny playing politics by thegarbz · · Score: 1

      Ny should be more professional and less political.

      Ny? From what I can see the UK high court agreed with them when applying UK laws.

      But you seem so convinced of the facts of a case before even going to court. Are you some kind of super judge? What's your secret? Telepathy? Or should we simply all be happy that you're not part of the legal profession?

    5. Re:Ny playing politics by AmiMoJo · · Score: 1

      Assange may have to wait for a change of government in the UK to get out of that embassy. Once the government changes the new Home Secretary can just call their predecessor and idiot was botching the whole thing and wasting millions of Pounds, and then let him take a direct flight to Ecuador.

      The other option is to fight the charges of skipping bail in the UK. He can now argue that there was in fact a genuine threat of the US trying to extradite him, legally or otherwise, and that the court made a mistake in its original judgement. If he can show that he could then argue that his actions were justified, given the threat to his life. Handily the US is now being more open about its desire to nab him, where as previously he didn't have enough evidence.

      I do wonder if he will be safe in Ecuador though. Maybe with some private security... But if the US is willing to grab people off the street in European countries, you wonder how free he will feel to move about in that country.

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
    6. Re:Ny playing politics by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "Court of law" in a country that willfully broke its own laws to participate in CIA rendition kidnapping where a man was tortured?

      ROTFL Court of Law.....ROTFL in Sweeden! ROTFL. Whats next? North Korea going to accuse him too?

    7. Re:Ny playing politics by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I do wonder if he will be safe in Ecuador though. Maybe with some private security... But if the US is willing to grab people off the street in European countries, you wonder how free he will feel to move about in that country.

      Safe in Ecuador? Not likely.

      A friend of mine who got a law degree in Sweden and Spain went to Ecuador to do her thesis on corruption in Ecuador, and I read it. It did not give Ecuador much credit. But you only have to look at the corruption index for them to get a hint: https://www.transparency.org/country/ECU

      So unless he can get a boatload of private security and pay enough that someone else doesn't outbid him, I don't think he will last there very long. And since he jumped bail, I am not so sure his wealthy fans like the idea to pay again.

    8. Re:Ny playing politics by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Of course she can, if the consent was given on false information or under duress.

      If consent is given under duress, it's not considered to be consent in the first case - it isn't withdrawn. And besides, that is not the case being considered here - it's just a strawman you've introduced.

      And consent (to a past act) absolutely can not be withdraw after the fact on the basis that it was given on false information. Or else a whole lot of men have been "raped" by their partners who claimed to be using contraception.

    9. Re:Ny playing politics by Theaetetus · · Score: 1

      The woman only pressed charges when he refused an aids test, and she cannot remove consent AFTER THE FACT, which is what her and Ny tried to do.

      You are correct in that, if consent were given at one point, it cannot be retroactively removed at a later point (though, of course, one can remove consent for any further acts at any time). One cannot magically travel back in time to a former instance to change whether there was or was not consent at that time.

      Which, of course, is why Assange is guilty of rape.

      See, the victim was asleep. She could not possibly have provided consent, because she was asleep. And Assange knew she was asleep, and that she did not provide consent, and he still penetrated here. The fact that she did not immediately go to press charges AFTER THE FACT is irrelevant, because that does not magically travel back in time to provide retroactive consent: what remains is that, at the time of penetration, Assange did not have consent and knew that he did not have consent. That is the very definition of rape.

      Your argument attempting to defend him is absolutely correct, and absolutely damning.

    10. Re:Ny playing politics by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I am a US citizen, and I feel Assange speaks for me more than our oligarchy-controlled media and in large part, politicians. It's really sad that the only way I can get reliable information about what my criminal politicians are doing is through leakers.

      I do not want Assange extradited to my country to face a kangaroo court that I would not respect.

    11. Re:Ny playing politics by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So lies are rapes now?

    12. Re:Ny playing politics by mvdwege · · Score: 1

      If consent is given under duress, it's not considered to be consent in the first case

      Good boy.

      it's just a strawman you've introduced.

      You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.

      I was merely commenting on the statement that consent cannot be retroactively withdrawn. Anyone with half a brain could see I posited a hypothetical, that's why the word 'if' introduced that particular statement. So that just proves you're an illiterate moron.

      --
      "I know I will be modded down for this": where's the option '-1, Asking for it'?
    13. Re:Ny playing politics by david_thornley · · Score: 1

      Regardless of what Assange did or not do in Sweden, he has clearly committed illegal acts in the UK, and has seriously violated UK law, and this is not going to change with a change of UK government.

      Assange was able to argue whatever he wanted against the extradition process, and the UK courts up to the highest level said the extradition was entirely legal. Nor is there any credible evidence that the US wanted to extradite him at any point in the process. What would we do to him? Publishing classified documents can make enemies, but it isn't a crime in the US. There's no point in making an extradition request if we can't convict him of anything.

      If the US wanted to grab him off the streets, we'd have done it already. If he was in danger in Sweden, why did he move there in the first place?

      --
      "When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
  8. Boo hooo. Rot in jail. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Troll

    Moscow Donald and Julian Assange should both be serving time in a maximum security pound me in the ass penitentiary.

    Julian can show Donald how he takes his condom off in the middle of sex. No doubt Donald has already done it with pee stained underage hookers, but they could have a good laugh about it.

    1. Re:Boo hooo. Rot in jail. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I don't care any more. the Assange show is just boring. he acts like Trump but he doesn't have any money, so he comes off as a supercilious pissant.

    2. Re:Boo hooo. Rot in jail. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That's because he is a supercilious pissant!

    3. Re:Boo hooo. Rot in jail. by ArmoredDragon · · Score: 1

      If you want evidence that it's a farce and he is in fact a pissant weasel, look at what Snowden said about Ecuador: The CIA operates with impunity there, and they can make the Ecuadorian government do whatever they want. If Snowden were to go there, he could easily get removed and sent to the US. And, we already know the US has influence on the embassy where Assange is, namely they had Ecuador cut off his internet access for the US election.

      If the US wanted him out of that embassy, they would have had him out a long time ago. Assange knows this but doesn't care, he's just trying to avoid going to Sweden.

      In fact, if anything I'd wager that the US likes him there because they effectively have him on a leash, and they don't even need to risk putting him to trial.

  9. WE ALL KNEW THE "RAPE" SHIT WAS BUNK by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Why did they let that go on so long? Just be out with it, we want him for producing state secrets to the internet. Fucking rape-condom laws do not warrant the London Met*.* standing outside an embassy for 4 years.

    1. Re:WE ALL KNEW THE "RAPE" SHIT WAS BUNK by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Because they know where he is! If he had gone underground and disappeared they wouldn't have put any resources to find him. But a high-profile bail-jumper, not only letting everyone knowing where he is, but taunting the law enforcement: of course they are going to be there to uphold the law (no mattery how unlawful or immoral you think it is). Doing anything else and they aren't doing their job.

  10. Sweden was/is just sucking up to the US by Required+Snark · · Score: 1, Insightful
    It is painfully obvious that the charges in Sweden against Assange were only brought because someone in the Swedish government wanted to curry favor with the US. This type of sex charge is almost never used in Sweden; it is extremely rare.

    So after Trump is elected, Sweden hates Trump and drops the charges. They don't want to do anything to help Trump. Their behavior is unrelated to the nominal charges, it's all about their political position.

    They have chosen this path to save face and to keep their options open. It still might be useful for Sweden to do something on the behalf of the US, so they are still keeping Asange as a possible target.

    So much time has passed since Assange was originally charged that the situation has completely changed. Wikileaks is now allied with Russia and wants payback against the US. They are no longer a neutral 3rd party trying to uncover the truth. They have a pro-Russian agenda.

    Given that Putin wants to destabilize Western democracies it is hard to see Assange as a victim. He has chosen the dark side and even though it is easy to see why, he has lost all moral authority.

    --
    Why is Snark Required?
    1. Re:Sweden was/is just sucking up to the US by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      > He has chosen the dark side and even though it is easy to see why, he has lost all moral authority.

      But you'll say that about anyone that exposes the unethical behavior and possible crimes of the Democrats, so why should we take that assessment of yours seriously?

    2. Re:Sweden was/is just sucking up to the US by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      >So much time has passed since Assange was originally charged that the situation has completely changed. Wikileaks is now allied with Russia and wants payback against the US. They are no longer a neutral 3rd party trying to uncover the truth. They have a pro-Russian agenda.

      Where is there proof for any of this? Watch his video on Obama's comments about him. Obama never directly says he works with Russia, just implies it with laywerly language.

      It's fine the democrats don't like him now, but there's no evidence he works with Russia.

    3. Re:Sweden was/is just sucking up to the US by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "Goodies" and "Baddies" are for children's' stories.

    4. Re:Sweden was/is just sucking up to the US by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      just because there is a pro-Russian agenda doesn't mean it's not still truth. If the government, secret services and military were better actors (no not those kinds of actors) then the agenda would be a moot point.

    5. Re:Sweden was/is just sucking up to the US by tinkerton · · Score: 1

      You have to understand (ok, or not) how a campaign to damage reputation always succeeds. With an orchestrated or spontaneous effort to damage someone a lot of things are thrown at the wall in the hope that something sticks.
      The effect is that the moral credit of the target is reduced. People use a kind of moral accounting where they can be tolerant for a person's fault to a certain degree. Such a campaign reduces that tolerance.
      Because of that people are much less forgiving to perceived faults, and they also start to give more credibility to damaging claims.
      Any reasonable person will after a while decide that some of it must be true AND at the same time will decide that the tolerance for the target's faults has been exhausted.

      There's a desperate need for an organization like Wikileaks so I'm willing to put up with a bunch of flaws and some strategic choices I disagree with. I don't have to like Assange. At the same time I'm strongly convinced the whole campaign against Wikileaks , Russia and Trump should be ignored as a load of baloney.
      There will be some truth in it but it will be the kind of truth that in other circumstances would be hardly newsworthy.

    6. Re:Sweden was/is just sucking up to the US by gnasher719 · · Score: 2

      It is painfully obvious that the charges in Sweden against Assange were only brought because someone in the Swedish government wanted to curry favor with the US. This type of sex charge is almost never used in Sweden; it is extremely rare.

      That's probably because Swedish men know how the system work and don't do that kind of shit. It's painfully obvious that Assange did badly misbehave, in a way that would find him guilty of rape, if proven according to the standards required in Sweden. And a UK court agreed with that. It's also painfully obvious that he jumped bail in the UK, and that's a crime that he ought to go to court for in the UK.

    7. Re:Sweden was/is just sucking up to the US by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      Given that Putin wants to destabilize Western democracies it is hard to see Assange as a victim.

      America is not a Democracy. It is an Oligarchy. You were doing so well until this point! Why on earth would any world leader not want America destabilized? Right now we're doing our level best to run the whole fucking world as our empire. We have military bases everywhere and if you don't do what we say, we'll fucking bomb you.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
  11. First Amendment? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I'm not familiar with the American legal system. Can someone tell me how the First Amendment would impede prosecution of an Australian citizen?

    1. Re:First Amendment? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Located in England, facing Swedish charges.

  12. US arrogance by bradley13 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    US prosecution is a bit laughable. Assange did not steal any documents - they were given to him. As a non-US citizen, not resident in the US, all of whose actions took place outside of the US: he is clearly not subject to US jurisdiction.

    I'm sure the US would love to prosecute him, but doing so would be a mockery of justice.

    --
    Enjoy life! This is not a dress rehearsal.
    1. Re:US arrogance by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

      > m sure the US would love to prosecute him, but doing so would be a mockery of justice.

      Sadly, this business model is becoming trendy (again) these days. The US isn't there yet, but their president is trying hard.

    2. Re:US arrogance by Solandri · · Score: 1

      US prosecution is a bit laughable. That criminal in Estonia did not steal your credit card numbers - they were given to him. As a non-US citizen, not resident in the US, all of whose actions took place outside of the US: he is clearly not subject to US jurisdiction.

      I'm sure the US would love to prosecute him, but doing so would be a mockery of justice.

    3. Re:US arrogance by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And there you have corruption. When the credit card is stolen, if it is unused, then there is no crime. Only when it's used is it a crime. Either identity theft which is fraudulent misrepresentation or money which is plain theft.

      When the police raid your home to arrest you for drug charges, is that kidnapping? When that estonian breaks into your house and takes you away to put in a small cell it's kidnapping.

      So you can't just exchange estonian for assange.

      Since what assange got was information showing criminal activities (the apache heli video) or potential security violations (Hilary emails), it's as legal to pass it on to everyone else as it is legal to report someone to the police for a criminal act.

      Do you want to be arrested for telling the police about the KP you found on a near neighbour's photo album while idly visiting? Then why do you insist that Assange be arrested for telling the people about the crimes of their government?

    4. Re:US arrogance by thegarbz · · Score: 0

      US prosecution is a bit laughable.

      US prosecution is also non existent. He hasn't been charged with anything, there's not been an extradition request, and the only person saying anything about US is Assange himself.

      Yet you're criticizing the USA for something they haven't done. I can't help but notice your user name. Can't Slashdot change that one for you to something more feminine?

    5. Re:US arrogance by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      US persecution is not.

      We are not a country of laws at all as anyone working for our government can be made immune to any law they want at any time. Check out the "Westfall Act" all the way back to the 80s, the US govenrment, in the unlikely scenario a court challenge ever got too far, could simply substitute themselves for the defendant; making them de facto above any and all law.

      A country of men. Men with black bags, lies.

    6. Re:US arrogance by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Extradition is not their only tool. CIA Rendition involves simple kidnapping right off the streets and Sweeden has participated in the past. Participated, been outed, and was only fined a paltry sum for their involvement.....low enough the US would gladly pay for Assange.

      He will not get a US trial; he will get a US black site and quiet disappearance. Those are the real stakes when Washington thugs hate you/.

    7. Re:US arrogance by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      He is subject to US jurisprudence if he comes in contact with US authorities or is on US soil.

      Your argument would get laughed right out of any court. He came into possession of said documents, then published them in violation of the law. Regardless of whether you think the law is wrong or insults your own moral and ethical code.

      If the US gets their hands on him he will be charged with multiple crimes, prosecuted, and incarcerated for life. Same with Snowden. They aren't stupid enough to enter any US territory without full pardons in hand.

      Would have happened no matter who is president. Those two will never get pardoned.

    8. Re:US arrogance by TangoMargarine · · Score: 1

      Saying that a government action would be too ridiculous to do with a straight face is hardly proof that they won't do it anyway these days.

      --
      Unity? Screw that: XFCE. Slashdot Beta? Screw that: SoylentNews. Australis? Screw that: Pale Moon. UX developers DIAF
    9. Re:US arrogance by david_thornley · · Score: 1

      You do not understand US law respecting publication of classified documents.

      Publishing classified documents is perfectly legal, and this has been well established in US jurisprudence. It might be illegal if Assange had participated in the extraction of the documents, but publication is OK.

      Snowden leaked the classified material himself, and so he's much more comparable to Manning, who was convicted of a felony, than Assange.

      --
      "When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
  13. do wonder sometimes by buss_error · · Score: 1

    If the US is trying to "back door" a "Official Secrets act". If you don't know what that is, it's a law in some jurisdictions that even if you are not sworn to protect secret information, and have no officially granted access to it, you are bound to preserve it's secrecy. Such laws are a prior restraint on free speech to those that did not agree to preserve secret information. While President Obama had a dismal record on this subject, the Trump Administration is on course for an even worse record on free speech. President Trump on on record many times saying he wishes to "Open up libel laws" - even for speech that is truthful.

    All I can say is that I view truth as an absolute defense against libel, and if you are not read in to a program that you have absolutely no duty to preserve it's secrecy. While Bradly/Chelsea Manning and John Snowden clearly did have such a duty, Assange just as clearly did not. As much as I personally dislike Assange, he committed no crime vis-a-vi WikiLeaks. It's also just as clear that the US would love to rendition him to a black site however they can get their hands on him.

    Maybe the key here is to not start on a course that has questionable ethics. In my view, what the US has done and continues to do has some facets with very questionable ethics. Yes, sometimes you have to do that. But it shouldn't appear to be the course of first resort.

    --
    Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves.
    1. Re:do wonder sometimes by AHuxley · · Score: 1

      The US tried that with the Pentagon papers. Once in the hands of the US media, press its protected.
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...
      So its very hard for the USA to go after the press in the USA, a profession that has constitutional protection.
      The clandestine agencies get around that by going after the whistleblower. Anyone working for the US gov, mil has to consent to a lot of color of law efforts to keep them away from US courts, media, investigations.
      Any issues are to be reported internally. Investigations are secret and kept internal to the US gov, mil.
      The ability by the CIA to work domestically on security issues surrounding US citizens was also interesting during the Vietnam war.
      The legal thinking was that as Vietnam was external to the USA, anyone in the USA not wanting war had to be connected to another nation. That showed international support and allowed the CIA to investigate domestic anti war issues inside the USA.
      Operation CHAOS https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...

      --
      Domestic spying is now "Benign Information Gathering"
  14. "Rape" now means "sexual misconduct" by aberglas · · Score: 3, Interesting

    The word has been redefined. It used to imply violence or threat thereof, not any more. Underage sex is also called "rape". Newspeak.

    The sexual case against Assange was always very dubious. Women accusing him of "rape" then having a lobster dinner with him the next night. None of them wanting to press charges etc.

    The Swedish prosecutor knows this which is why she never questioned Assange in the embassy. She was relieved when the statutary time limit expired on the lesser charges. And now she is just rationalizing her position. The last thing she wants is this farce to go to trial.

    The British bail charge is also irrelevant. At worst Assange could spend a few months in jail, but that is unlikely.

    But the US charges are a different matter. He could spend the rest of his life in a very uncomfortable cell (quite unlike Swedish jails). And their justice system is pretty rough. Also remember, they have huge sentences for minor crimes, so being found guilty of anything at all would be very serious.

    Assange's real crime was publishing that video of US soldiers shooting up civilians. That is unforgivable.

    1. Re:"Rape" now means "sexual misconduct" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What US charges? There is nothing to charge him with. He did not solicit any information. It was handed to him. He was under no obligation to not release it further.

      All claims of US charges are without merit. Our espionage laws relate to those entrusted with classified information and those who actively solicit or entice others who have access to obtain such information on their behalf. Thus we can arrest and charge the Russian Spy who is trying to steal, buy or otherwise actively obtain sensitive information. But we have no such activities by Assange.

      And having had the information handed to him, unsolicited means there is no barrier to his choosing to publish said information.

      As to the video, that was not a war crime. Despite the claims of a few uneducated as to the Laws of Land Warfare, it was not a war crime. Both the Van and the armed group that included a camera were legitimate targets in an active firefight.

    2. Re:"Rape" now means "sexual misconduct" by phayes · · Score: 2, Informative

      The rape charges have been confirmed in every real life court in which their reality was called into question are only dubious in the minds of the hard-core Assange supporters that can't bear to see their hero brought back to earth.

      The alleged acts were/are defined as rape in Sweden, the U.K. the rest of the E.U. and in the U.S. The U.K. high court confirmed this years ago, at which point Assange jumped bail & scuttled off to the Embassy.

      The Swedish prosecutor was unable to satisfactorily question Assange due to his preconditions and would need to be auditioned again before the case could move forward.

      As a high profile bail-jumper, he will very likely see the most severe penalty of a year in prison for jumping bail: 1 year, served in the U.K if no-one cares to claim him.

      If he stays in the Embassy until the Swedish statute of limitations for the rape charges runs out (instead of coming out as promised when Manning was released) we'll all see if the boogey-man of U.S. charges become reality or not. He has burned all his goodwill by jumping bail & the U.K.>U.S. extradition treaties make extradition a mere formality for any that the U.K does not wish to defend. If Brexit becomes effective before 2020, appeals to the E.U. High Courts become impossible.

      --
      Democracy is a sheep and two wolves deciding what to have for lunch. Freedom is a well armed sheep contesting the issue
    3. Re:"Rape" now means "sexual misconduct" by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      He has burned all his goodwill by jumping bail & the U.K.>U.S. extradition treaties make extradition a mere formality for any that the U.K does not wish to defend.

      Burned what goodwill? His supporters still support him and the American government always hated him, what do you suggest has changed because he's stayed in the embassy?

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    4. Re:"Rape" now means "sexual misconduct" by AmiMoJo · · Score: 1

      Underage sex is also called "rape". Newspeak.

      This is not a new thing. In the UK it's always been "statutory rape", as in the underage person cannot legally give consent.

      Rape has always implied lack of consent, nothing else. The concept of "marital rape", which does not imply any violence, is centuries old (earliest written reference was in the 1700s).

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
    5. Re:"Rape" now means "sexual misconduct" by phayes · · Score: 1

      Burned what goodwill? His supporters still support him and the American government always hated him, what do you suggest has changed because he's stayed in the embassy?

      The most important goodwill he squandered is that of the U.K. justice system that gave him the benefit of every doubt, allowing him to be released from jail until the resolution of all his appeals on the strength of his vow to respect their judgement and the assurances of others that he would do so. That goodwill is gone along with Assange's reputation as a man of his word and is likely to result in the hardest sentence possible for him for jumping bail once he exits the embassy.

      The other goodwill he has now squandered is that of the public in the west who now generally see him as a fugitive from justice, likely a rapist (Q: Hey, what's this Stealthing thing in the news? A: It's what Assange is accused of doing) and the mouthpiece of any dirt Putin wants to throw at politicians/organisations. The "weight" of his hardcore supporters now means little beyond mod points on slashdot. The fake excrement mixed in with legitimate but private campaign emails he released on Macron just before the 2nd tour surprised no-one and further tarnished his reputation (if that's even possible at this point).

      --
      Democracy is a sheep and two wolves deciding what to have for lunch. Freedom is a well armed sheep contesting the issue
    6. Re:"Rape" now means "sexual misconduct" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      The only thing Assange is guilty of is being a grandiose douchebag.

      He slept with 2 women in a short period and when they met and compared notes they pressed charges. One of the women had a blog where she a year before this happened blogged about how to frame a man for rape. That blog mysteriously vanished the day after they had pressed charges. Go figure...

    7. Re:"Rape" now means "sexual misconduct" by drinkypoo · · Score: 2

      The most important goodwill he squandered is that of the U.K. justice system

      No great loss there.

      The other goodwill he has now squandered is that of the public in the west who now generally see him as a fugitive from justice,

      Which was already predominantly the case, if they knew of him at all.

      likely a rapist

      With all the confusion over the issue, I don't think they think it's that cut-and-dried, but I haven't seen polls on the issue. You?

      and the mouthpiece of any dirt Putin wants to throw at politicians/organisations.

      That's probably the most damning accusation, but it has nothing to do with the rape accusation, unless you know differently.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    8. Re:"Rape" now means "sexual misconduct" by dbIII · · Score: 1

      The rape charges have been confirmed in every real life court ... The Swedish prosecutor was unable to satisfactorily question Assange

      Make up your mind, is it one thing or the other? Also what's with hinting that he's already been convicted when he hasn't even been actually charged but instead was just wanted for questioning?

    9. Re:"Rape" now means "sexual misconduct" by phayes · · Score: 1

      No great loss there.

      The U.K. can and has refused to extradite to the U.S. They might have done so for him before. Now, no. That's why I mentioned the goodwill of the U.K. Justice system and general population. Maybe no great loss there as you point out but it's still his loss and for a man who's only rival as raison d'être = living in the public eye is Kim K, that's saying something.

      With all the confusion over the issue, I don't think they think it's that cut-and-dried, but I haven't seen polls on the issue. You?

      Directly, no but the first hand knowledge of how Wikileaks was treated for leaking the manipulated data from the Macron campaign by the press & public was telling. No French press was normal as it came during the last minute press blackout & would have been illegal but from social media & since then, the only people defending XL & Assange were some FN loyalists. That's a massive change from a few years ago.

      That's probably the most damning accusation, but it has nothing to do with the rape accusation, unless you know differently.

      It goes to character, your Honor...

      --
      Democracy is a sheep and two wolves deciding what to have for lunch. Freedom is a well armed sheep contesting the issue
    10. Re: "Rape" now means "sexual misconduct" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Judging from your vigorous work adding comments and arguementsâ to this discussion thread, you have a real hardon regarding the case of Julian Assange.

      Have you considered visiting a Chinese pharmacy to get some of those white-rhino-horn boner pills? It might really help.

    11. Re:"Rape" now means "sexual misconduct" by Calydor · · Score: 1

      And this is exactly why the US from day one have had the official, documented position that Assange is in no way a person of interest due to his actions.

      Oh wait ...

      --
      -=This sig has nothing to do with my comment. Move along now=-
    12. Re:"Rape" now means "sexual misconduct" by Theaetetus · · Score: 2

      The word has been redefined. It used to imply violence or threat thereof, not any more.

      You are correct, but I'd bet you and I would disagree whether that redefinition is a good thing. For example, under the older definition that requires violence or threat, it would not be rape to drug someone into unconsciousness and penetrate them. Nor would it be rape to, as Assange did, penetrate someone while they're asleep, knowing that she had refused sex before falling asleep. Heck, under definitions that were still around until the 1990s, it wasn't even rape to violently force yourself on someone, if the victim was your wife.

      But thankfully, even if you disagree, civilization has evolved.

    13. Re: "Rape" now means "sexual misconduct" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Your lengthy comments on this tolic seem very well prepared. Are our tax dollars paying for it? If so, and that does make you a civil servant, might I ask you, as one does commonly of servants: "on your knees! now!"

      goddamn govt. shill.

    14. Re:"Rape" now means "sexual misconduct" by phayes · · Score: 1

      That the Swedish charges qualify as rape has been settled. Read the U.K. High court proceedings posted elsewhere in comments.

      He cannot be condemned by Sweden until he shows up in court (& the interview is a necessary prerequisite in the Swedish justice system).

      Is he guilty? He broke his word, jumped bail and uses laughably false conspiracy theories (Easier to extradite from Sweden than from the U.K? Really?!?) Add to that he refused to allow the interview to take place unless all questions are detailed beforehand with no follow-ups allowed. That all adds up and saps his credibility. So yeah, IMO the accusations are far more credible than his claims of innocence.

      You need not agree with my opinion that he's a rapist but not that he is dishonestly fleeing a rape charge. Thus there is no quandary and the problem is that you're either voluntarily blinding yourself to the facts or just too dense to understand them.

      --
      Democracy is a sheep and two wolves deciding what to have for lunch. Freedom is a well armed sheep contesting the issue
    15. Re: "Rape" now means "sexual misconduct" by phayes · · Score: 1

      Nah, sniffing strange substances just turns people into drooling Anonymous Cowards such as you.

      --
      Democracy is a sheep and two wolves deciding what to have for lunch. Freedom is a well armed sheep contesting the issue
    16. Re: "Rape" now means "sexual misconduct" by phayes · · Score: 1

      Only to mentally deficient Anonymous Cowards such as yourself.

      --
      Democracy is a sheep and two wolves deciding what to have for lunch. Freedom is a well armed sheep contesting the issue
    17. Re:"Rape" now means "sexual misconduct" by dbIII · · Score: 1

      That the Swedish charges

      There you go again. He hasn't been charged as yet.

    18. Re:"Rape" now means "sexual misconduct" by david_thornley · · Score: 1

      What was confirmed is that the allegations amount to rape, both in Sweden and the UK. If Assange did what two woman claimed he did, he is guilty of rape. What is not confirmed is whether Assange actually did what he is alleged to have done.

      --
      "When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
    19. Re:"Rape" now means "sexual misconduct" by dbIII · · Score: 1

      It was confirmed that the law it is alleged he has broken covers rape among other things - a little bit different. The actual allegations were not considered by the British court, only the Swedish law.

  15. Status quo continues by GameboyRMH · · Score: 1

    Nothing's changed, Assange is still practically incarcerated indefinitely under threat of being extradited to the US, just how the US government wants it. This sets an example for other whistleblowers, blow the whistle and we will lock you up forever, if not in an actual prison then in an embassy if you're lucky. First there were the rape charges, then there are the failure to appear in court charges, next it'll be violating a housing code or something.

    --
    "When information is power, privacy is freedom" - Jah-Wren Ryel
    1. Re:Status quo continues by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      He willingly ran to the embassy himself. In doing so he broke UK law (breaking bail conditions). He can walk out of the embassy any time he likes.

    2. Re:Status quo continues by GameboyRMH · · Score: 0

      ...and immediately get arrested. Just like you can walk out of jail any time you like. There are guards waiting to stop you, but that's beside the point, right?

      --
      "When information is power, privacy is freedom" - Jah-Wren Ryel
    3. Re:Status quo continues by phayes · · Score: 1

      The point is that Assange will be justifiably arrested for jumping bail instead of respecting his given word. But then for the true believers, the divine Assange can commit no crime, do no evil, speak no untruth. Yea, verily, he IS the Anointed One!

      I walked into a jail a few years ago. You're far from free to enter/exit as you like. Lots of making sure that you are who you say you are. Walked in, followed the declared rules, replaced the firewall & walked out. That last bit is going to take longer for Assange.

      --
      Democracy is a sheep and two wolves deciding what to have for lunch. Freedom is a well armed sheep contesting the issue
  16. This is odd. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Can anyone be compelled to compete on Jeopardy in any country, much three different ones?

    1. Re:This is odd. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      . . .much less the Daily Double, where the scores can REALLY change!

  17. They gotta keep trying by tietokone-olmi · · Score: 1

    Like the non-pardon of the Collateral Murder leaker, this is a PR stunt designed to pressure Assange into leaving the embassy. Puts him in the headlines for a couple of days.

    1. Re:They gotta keep trying by phayes · · Score: 1

      Sorry, this is a non-event. The only real events are when the Anointed One, the divine Assange seizes the microphone to render the holy truths: ME ME ME ME!!!!

      --
      Democracy is a sheep and two wolves deciding what to have for lunch. Freedom is a well armed sheep contesting the issue
  18. Citation needed [Re: um...] by XXongo · · Score: 1
    I'm not sure what you're referring to, Mr. Coward.

    As far as I've seen, leaks from Snowden showed that the NSA had tools to intercept conversations and emails, including hacking into networks and computers, and did so in order to do what we used to call "wiretapping", but I don't recall seeing suggestions that they "tamper with information of elected individuals, fabricate information, and outright lie."

    Citation needed.

  19. And accused ONLY BY THE PROSECUTOR by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Moreover, since this was not a request for arrest from Sweden's court, the prosecutor was under no risk of lying.

    Aaron was told of some fake charges he "could" have been up for. And those charges were ones seeing life in prison, absolutely. HOWEVER, he would never have been charged with one in a court to a court judge since the case would be thrown out and the prosecutor slammed for wasting the courts time.

  20. I think ... by PPH · · Score: 1

    ... Morocco, Indonesia or some other country without a US extradition treaty needs to request extradition of Assange for a traffic violation. He needs to submit to that extradition request, be taken to that country, pay the fine and disappear onto the city streets there.

    --
    Have gnu, will travel.
  21. Cock and Bull by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    And every day hundreds of people skip bail or fail to turn up for court but none of these get a year in jail just a slap on the wrist.

  22. First amendment by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Concerns are not a concern for this administration. Shouldn't that tell us something?

  23. "Of what" is the question by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    and they ruled on "Was the form filed correctly?". the bias is that this was NOT looking into whether it was a supported criminal charge, just whether it was filed in correctly. YOU FUCKING MORON.

    1. Re:"Of what" is the question by david_thornley · · Score: 1

      No, there is a legal principle that extradition doesn't take place unless the alleged act was a crime in both countries. The UK court system had to find that what Assange was accused of is rape under UK law for the extradition to go forward. The UK courts are the exact correct venue to determine that, and that's what they determined.

      This doesn't imply anything about Assange being guilty or innocent. That would be legally established in a trial Assange has taken great pains to avoid.

      --
      "When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
  24. Unbelievable by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I believe Switzerland should have to pay Assange millions of dollars. The case was dropped before it was picked up again by a clearly compromised radical feminist activist prosecutor. Assange is also clearly at risk of being disappeared by a set of people who do not respect human rights and who are a threat to the entire world. If Switzerland thinks that this is in their best interest, they are clearly mistaken.

  25. Then according to that view... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Explain Nuremberg.