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Devuan Jessie 1.0 Officially Released (softpedia.com)
prisoninmate quotes a report from Softpedia: Announced for the first time back in November 2014, Devuan is a Debian fork that doesn't use systemd as init system. It took more than two and a half years for it to reach 1.0 milestone, but the wait is now over and Devuan 1.0.0 stable release is here. Based on the packages and software repositories of the Debian GNU/Linux 8 "Jessie" operating system, Devuan 1.0.0 "Jessie" is now considered the first stable version of the GNU/Linux distribution, which stays true to its vision of developing a free Debian OS without systemd. This release is recommended for production use. As Devuan 1.0.0 doesn't ship with systemd, several adjustments needed to be made. For example, the distro uses a systemd-free version of the NetworkManager network connection manager and includes several extra libsystemd0-free packages in its repository.
> I learned Unity.
Unity3D, the multiplatform development environment, or Unity, the now-defunct user interface?
> I learned systemd. It's not bad at all.
The problem is really how quickly it blazed through the community, as major distro after major distro switched to it, and how it was suddenly present in everything. Opting out was overly difficult. If it had moved slower, you'd have seen systemdless distros pop up in due time, instead of after the fact.
That does make it terrible to use systemd on a server. Had a typo yesterday with BIND. Before systemd, the error message would have been displayed on the console. Now, it is dropped by the journal so it made troubleshooting difficult especially since we host over 1,900 domains so we didn't know which file to look in.
server admins use Debian. And server admins who consider systemd to be a destabilizing atrocity that chucks reliability out the window in favor of GNOME edge cases
What are these server admins doing? I have the defaults on EL7 and Debian 8 and all I notice is the VM's come up much faster and with fewer race conditions than under previous inits.
This is over dozens of unique VM images, but they're all doing pretty standard server stuff. What unusual things are people doing that break systemd-based distros?
I understand that some people have philosophical objections - fine - but I haven't heard any of my colleagues complaining of actual instability or unreliability.
My God, it's Full of Source!
OUTSIDE_IP=$(dig +short my.ip @outsideip.net)
Amazon's Default AMI Linux is systemd-less, and is very possibly the most widely deployed linux distribution in use on servers.
I have installed Devuan on a laptop so far, and will be switching my other systems over time. I had one problem, the lack of a good replacement for network manager, and it seemed that as soon as I complained that the developers put network-manager in the next test release.
Bruce Perens.
I don't see how this is modded as flamebait, except that this community has a pretty obvious anti-systemd bias. Mr McGonigle was pointing out the hyperbole used by the vocal systemd opponents.
/. account to comment on systemd stories. Maybe I take exception to the level of hate directed at the members of the "community" for the work that they've done. If you see this Lennary Poettering, thank you for all your contributions! Ignore the haters, systemd is great and people don't have to use it if they don't like it.
My own anecdotal systemd experience has been positive, on desktops and servers. It is a major improvement over sysvinit, and many of the improvements make it a lot easier to admin a server.
For some reason I only ever use my
I've been using Devuan for some time now. I actually lack a lot of the required technical expertise to really have an opinion one way or the other about systemd.
However, I've been around long enough to know what kind of effect, 'dumbing things down has', and it's a great staple in American culture.
It's this sort of why have 5 buttons when you can have 1 button do everything. If you know what I'm talking about I don't need to explain it, and if you don't, you probably don't care and enjoy things being dumbed down. I'm sure I also enjoy a few things others would consider dumbed down, but...
When there are moves to take away, 'options', I'm against it. Convenience, should not be confused with simple and elegant efficiency. So for me, as soon as I heard about Devuan, I was on board.
Glad to hear Devuan reached 1.0.0 finally! Great job folks. I appreciate it. I have the option and have had for some time now, to use one of my favorite Distributions with the OPTION to not have to use systemd.
read up on journal configuration options and that will answer your "problems" https://www.loggly.com/ultimat...
and this "swallowing" of error messages is total crap.
"The hands that help are better far than lips that pray." - Robert Ingersoll (1833-1899)
I don't think many of the people complaining about systemd are "crusty old sys admins", I think we're talking about mostly hobbyists who don't like change. SysV init has never been considered a thing of beauty by those who have to maintain GNU/Linux (or any *ix) systems. That's why systemd is the latest in a long line of replacements, from Apple's LaunchD (also about to be used in FreeBSD) to Ubuntu's Upstart.
Strongly disagree here, at least from RedHat land. SysV-style init scripts have been a solved problem for quite a while. If there are problems, they're usually a result of the daemon/app itself having problems that workarounds are needed for -- workarounds that usually end up in the systemd.service files as well unless upstream finally did something about the underlying issues.
Seriously, when I need to create an init script for something in EL6, just cut and paste https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/EPEL:SysVInitScripts?rd=Packaging:SysVInitScript#Initscript_template, change a few variables and/or add customization needed, and you're done. It's not rocket science and worked perfectly adequately. BSD folks complained about using chkconfig to manage your rcX.d/ structure (compared to rc.conf), but that wasn't that hard to figure out.
Debian (and Ubuntu) init scripts, on the other hand, seem to more or less be an unmitigated dumpster fire of strange techniques and non-standardization. But I've been a RH guy for forever. If systemd had come out of Debian-world, I'd totally understand its genesis and probably sympathize more. That it came out of Fedora/RH strikes me as quite bizarre. The only thing systemd could use to really justify itself with at F14/F15 time was boot speed, something which Debian had seen good improvements at by swapping https://wiki.debian.org/DashAsBinSh. Had Fedora/RH adopted that, we might not have seen systemd exalted to the degree it was.
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