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Germany Plans To Fingerprint Children and Spy On Personal Messages (fortune.com)

From a report: Germany is planning a new law giving authorities the right to look at private messages and fingerprint children as young as 6, the interior minister said on Wednesday after the last government gathering before a national election in September. Ministers from central government and federal states said encrypted messaging services, such as WhatsApp and Signal, allow militants and criminals to evade traditional surveillance. "We can't allow there to be areas that are practically outside the law," interior minister Thomas de Maiziere told reporters in the eastern town of Dresden.

12 of 225 comments (clear)

  1. Wait, what? by Rick+Schumann · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I thought Germany was one of the countries that valued privacy, the 'right to be forgotten' on the Internet, etc? How come all of the sudden they sound like the UK?

    1. Re:Wait, what? by thegarbz · · Score: 4, Informative

      They do. The summary left out key details. a) the encryption thing is still covered under the same warrants and rules that apply to any other police interaction and b) they are only fingerprinting asylum seekers, non Germans, and the change is that they are proposing to change this age from 14 years old to 6 years old.

    2. Re:Wait, what? by gweihir · · Score: 4, Informative

      German interior ministers immediately lose their minds when coming into office and start to look up what the Nazis did to keep the population under control and then try to find ways to improve on that. It is not known what causes the effect, but the current office-holder is even more affected than usual, probably because he has no useful skills at all.

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  2. Re:So Hitler taught them nothing? by Anonymous+Brave+Guy · · Score: 3, Insightful

    The current lurch towards authoritarianism in Europe is profoundly disturbing. You really would think Germany of all places would know better than to give in to the politics of fear.

    It is also rather depressing that here in the UK, apparently Ariana Grande has a more mature view of the attacks in Manchester and the appropriate response to them than Theresa May.

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  3. Re:So Hitler taught them nothing? by fish_in_the_c · · Score: 4, Informative

    hmm... when my son was born here in the united states the put his hand prints and foot prints in his birth records. Probably attached to his birth certificate. I guess I didn't think to ask if it was 'optional'. It certainly wasn't presented as such.

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  4. Re:So Hitler taught them nothing? by Anonymous+Brave+Guy · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Geez....why would the populace stand for this?

    Probably because they're afraid. Remember, as an expert on the subject infamously observed, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger.

    (That was Gestapo founder Hermann Goering, for those who missed the reference. The original comment was about the futility of relying on popular elections to avoid a war that the political leaders want, but the principle seems just as relevant in this context.)

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  5. Wrong. Headline is complete bullshit. by Qbertino · · Score: 5, Insightful

    German gouvernment is planning to pass a law that requires messaging services such as WhatsApp to be monitorable like phonecalls should a court order requested by the authorities give them the permission to do so in order to fight crime.

    There, FTFY.

    Like many politicians German politicians too have little clue about how the internet and computers work, but that's no reason to write headlines that are so sensationalist that they are flat out wrong.

    My 2 cents.

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  6. Re:So Hitler taught them nothing? by Topwiz · · Score: 5, Informative

    I was also born in 1960.
    Those birth certificates with hand and foot prints are issued by the hospital. They are just a souvenir, not the official birth certificated file with the state.

  7. Re:So Hitler taught them nothing? by lactose99 · · Score: 4, Informative

    Its fingerprinting for asylum seekers as young as 6 (current minimum age is 14), not all residents.

    Summary fails to note that point.

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  8. Re:So Hitler taught them nothing? by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 3, Informative

    It's too bad that "collective responsibility" doesn't extend to preventing the groping of female subway riders in Japan.

    They provide "women-only" subway cars during busy periods. Other than that, anyone that has boarded the Yamanote line at at Shinjuku station at rush hour will know that there isn't any obvious solution. Courts have been tightening up penalties, but that only works if the groper gets caught, which is rare. There has recently been a backlash because of people falsely accused. Since Japan has such a low crime rate, any criminal conviction has severe social consequences, often resulting in losing your job, becoming unemployable, and basically destroying your life.

  9. Re:So Hitler taught them nothing? by Anonymous+Brave+Guy · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Ariana Grande isn't going to be the one standing in front of thousands of constituents trying to figure out how to protect innocent citizens from being murdered

    It's remarkably clear what needed to happen to prevent that particular attack, and the authoritarian dross Theresa May has been advocating since then certainly isn't it. The bomber was brought to the attention of the authorities on at least five occasions over a considerable period before the attacks, but the resources weren't there to follow up on a credible threat and we all know the tragic result.

    At least the locals stood up that night and showed solidarity and support over anger and hatred, and the celebrities turned up a few days later to show that life goes on and we shouldn't give in to fear. That's two groups of people who are both doing better than our national government.

    I also don't recall New Yorkers holding hands and singing kumbaya around the fucking campfire after the 9/11 attacks either.

    And truly, the way the US responded to 9/11 was an example we should all follow, what with the vast numbers of innocents killed or injured in the resulting wars, destabilisation of an already precarious region of the world, and consequent creation of the largest terrorist threat to the West today.

    The US leadership of the time would have done better to show some actual leadership, instead of just ramping up the anger and revenge and fear. The world would be a much, much better place today if they had.

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  10. Re:So Hitler taught them nothing? by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Not really, it's just not talked about.

    In some ways, Japan is more open about it. For instance Japan has sex dolls for pedophiles. Although data is preliminary, these dolls appear to reduce predatory behavior by giving pedos a harmless outlet. It is unthinkable that America could do something this sensible.