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Swiss Supercomputer Edges US Out of Top Spot (bbc.com)

Posted by BeauHD on from the next-in-line dept.

There have only been two times in the last 24 years where the U.S. has been edged out of the top spot of the world's most powerful supercomputers. Now is one of those times. "An upgrade to a Swiss supercomputer has bumped the U.S. Department of Energy's Cray XK7 to number four on the list rating these machines," reports the BBC. "The only other time the U.S. fell out of the top three was in 1996." The top two slots are occupied by Chinese supercomputers. From the report. The U.S. machine has been supplanted by Switzerland's Piz Daint system, which is installed at the country's national supercomputer center. The upgrade boosted its performance from 9.8 petaflops to 19.6. The machine is named after a peak in the Grison region of Switzerland. One petaflop is equal to one thousand trillion operations per second. A "flop" (floating point operation) can be thought of as a step in a calculation. The performance improvement meant it surpassed the 17.6 petaflop capacity of the DoE machine, located at the Oak Ridge National Laboratory in Tennessee. The U.S. is well represented lower down in the list, as currently half of all the machines in the top 10 of the list are based in North America. And the Oak Ridge National Laboratory looks set to return to the top three later this year, when its Summit supercomputer comes online. This is expected to have a peak performance of more than 100 petaflops.

64 comments

  1. It was just #3 before! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Read the summary, it was bumped out of the top 3 to become #4.

  2. Need more information by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    How many nodes and cores per node? How much memory is available on each node? What kind of interconnect is used? And what type of file system is used? In my experience, Lustre can be quite a bottleneck for many applications. It's also great that there's that much power, but it will only be used efficiently in parallel with good interconnections between nodes. Scalability of jobs matters a lot.

    1. Re:Need more information by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

      The system configuration is outlined here: http://www.cscs.ch/publications/highlights/2017/piz_daint_one_of_the_most_powerful_supercomputers_in_the_world/index.html. The storage is listed as Cray Sonexion, which is Lustre-based. The Cray Aries network has also shown itself to scale pretty well. Of course, the LINPACK benchmark that's the basis of the Top 500 list doesn't really measure filesystem or network performance, so the relative merit of those subsystems can't be judged effectively by those results.

      The Top500 data also included the results of the HPCG benchmark (http://www.hpcg-benchmark.org/), which has this stated purpose: "HPCG is designed to exercise computational and data access patterns that more closely match a different and broad set of important applications, and to give incentive to computer system designers to invest in capabilities that will have impact on the collective performance of these applications."

      The Swiss system is ranked #3 on the HPCG list as well and also #6 on the Green 500 list of most energy-efficient supercomputers, so it's a fairly well-balanced system and not just some machoFLOPS stunt.

    2. Re:Need more information by AHuxley · · Score: 1

      It depends on what a nation wants to do.
      Perfecting and fully testing quantum encryption for their mil?
      Collect it all telco sorting with full decryption support?
      Nuclear weapons simulations to keep an old stockpile ready or to try new designs?
      Dont want to go nuclear? Try other simulating other very complex weapons systems that are difficult to test without other nations asking questions.
      Climate change bragging rights on the international stage with the best weather model to push some political cause?
      Some university or think tank wants to attract the worlds best students to spend cash locally "learning" for years?
      Different nations have very different needs for their public supercomputers.
      A financial centre?
      "Agriculture"
      Prestige without needing to spend a lot on a good news story?

      --
      Domestic spying is now "Benign Information Gathering"
    3. Re:Need more information by Cmdln+Daco · · Score: 1

      "Even Sharper Swiss Army Knives?"

    4. Re:Need more information by unixisc · · Score: 1

      Other thing I was wondering - are Xeon CPUs used for all of these, or something else, like POWER 8?

    5. Re:Need more information by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      From https://www.top500.org/news/top500-list-refreshed-us-edged-out-of-third-place/

      "Intel continues to be the dominant supplier of TOP500 chips. Either Xeon or Xeon Phi processors power 464 of the 500 systems. IBM Power processors are in 21 systems, while AMD Opteron CPUs are present in six systems. Processor share, with regard to supplier, has not changed appreciably over the last year."

    6. Re:Need more information by harvey+the+nerd · · Score: 1

      after hours Bitcoin mining...

    7. Re:Need more information by cheesybagel · · Score: 1

      A large amount of the FLOPS is usually GPUs or something similar. Like NVIDIA GPUs or Intel Xeon Phis.

    8. Re:Need more information by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "Even Sharper Swiss Army Knives?"

      Nazi gold accountancy systems?

  3. how fast can it by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    scroll text?

  4. America doesn't win anymore by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    SAD!

    1. Re:America doesn't win anymore by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      SAD!

      This wouldn't have happened if Hillary had won.

    2. Re:America doesn't win anymore by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Piz Daint uses Broadwell. Made in Oregon.

    3. Re:America doesn't win anymore by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      SAD!

      yeah this Piss Taint machine is what AMERICA will be making tons of once Trump has sum moar time to bring teh tech manufacturing jobs home and MAKE AMERICA GREAT AGAIN swisserland has no chance believe me

    4. Re: America doesn't win anymore by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Of course, she would have forced the Sweden to surrender. #iamwithher

    5. Re: America doesn't win anymore by someone1234 · · Score: 1

      Sweden? How would that help beating Switzerland and China???

      --
      Patents Drive Free Software as Hurricanes Drive Construction Industry
    6. Re: America doesn't win anymore by Hognoxious · · Score: 1

      Found the German!

      --
      Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
  5. top spot by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    is it "top spot" or "top three spots"?!

    1. Re: top spot by easyTree · · Score: 1

      It's top x spots where x = current spot index.

      --
      Requiem for the American Dream
  6. one and done by turkeydance · · Score: 1

    the Swiss just copied Calipari

  7. one thousand trillion operations per second by rmdingler · · Score: 1
    If only we had a number representative of a thousand trillion...

    FTA:

    With the two Chinese supercomputers and one Swiss system occupying the top of the rankings, this is the second time in the 24-year history of the TOP500 list that the United States has failed to secure any of the top three positions. The only other time this occurred was in November 1996, when three Japanese systems captured the top three spots.

    --
    Happiness in intelligent people is the rarest thing I know.

    Ernest Hemingway

  8. Fastest We Know Of by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Insightful

    Something tells me NSA or other state entities have faster computing power, and when they are done with it they destroy them rather than surplus them.

    1. Re:Fastest We Know Of by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 3, Informative

      Something tells me NSA or other state entities have faster computing power

      Why would they? The NSA does cryptanalysis, text scanning, and signal analysis. None of these require a supercomputer.

      If your tasks can be run in parallel on distributed systems, then a supercomputer is a waste of money. Supercomputers are for tasks that have Amdahl Bottlenecks, or tight data dependencies.

    2. Re:Fastest We Know Of by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      and... they have backdoors into every modern cpu made, scores of routers, and everything else. if they ever needed it, they've got access to the largest 'distributed' computing network ever.

    3. Re:Fastest We Know Of by ancientt · · Score: 1

      Thanks for that. It made me think. (No mod points or I'd bump your post insightful.)

      Hammers are great if you want to drive nails, but saws are better for cutting down trees and screw drivers are better for turning screws. The best tool for the job is based on the work you want to do rather than the power of the tool. Saying the NSA likely has the biggest supercomputer is akin to saying they have the biggest hammer. I'm sure the NSA has impressive hammers and impressive supercomputers, but neither is necessarily the tool most important to the job they're trying to do.

      That said, I'd love to know what the NSA uses their computer budget to buy and accomplish, even if I couldn't ever talk about it. (Hint, hint! If you're working at the NSA on their computer science projects and want to blow a yokel's mind, please get in touch... and I promise to only freak a little bit when you pop up a message on my "secure" system.)

      --
      B) Eliminate all the stupid users. This is frowned upon by society.
    4. Re:Fastest We Know Of by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Depending on your definition of pop-up, you might say that this message is popping up on your system right now.

    5. Re:Fastest We Know Of by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      The NSA is a clandestine foreign intelligence and counter intelligence agency empowered to protect the country. So if they do have "backdoor" access to various network connected devices and posses a large and powerful distributed computer then they are doing their job. And I think the "backdoor" claims have not been sufficiently proved to exists. Just like the old claims about Windows having a "backdoor". No one has every provided any proof of a Windows backdoor and they have been looking a long time. If you make claims of "backdoors" you need to provide proof instead of speculation. If their were intentional "backdoors" they would have been found by now. If you there are "backdoors" built-in CPUS, Routers, and other network hardware you will also need real proof instead of just theories and possibilities. If people are so sure these "backdoors" they can surely offer proof? And if these "backdoors" do exists people would have been using them. All the people spending the time and effort trying to find and create exploits could save a lot of time by just using these pre-existing "backdoors".

    6. Re:Fastest We Know Of by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No one has every provided any proof of a Windows backdoor and they have been looking a long time.

      But if the backdoor is for Windows on specific targets, via Windows Update, then it is highly improbably that they will ever be uncovered. Unless a very highly skilled technical expert was monitoring the target and also had the ability to decrypt the encrypted Windows Update data.

    7. Re:Fastest We Know Of by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      mind. blown.

    8. Re:Fastest We Know Of by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Troll

      and... they have backdoors into every modern cpu made, scores of routers, and everything else. if they ever needed it, they've got access to the largest 'distributed' computing network ever.

      Your confusing the NSA with the reptilians again.

    9. Re: Fastest We Know Of by Type44Q · · Score: 0

      Congrats; you've won the "Most Incompetent Shill Ever" award.

    10. Re: Fastest We Know Of by easyTree · · Score: 1

      No one has every provided any proof of a Windows backdoor and they have been looking a long time.

      Although it's been demonstrated repeatedly that the front door is open so I'm calling 'moot!'

      --
      Requiem for the American Dream
    11. Re:Fastest We Know Of by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Supercomputers are for tasks that have Amdahl Bottlenecks [wikipedia.org], or tight data dependencies.

      You mean mainframes, don't you? Supercomputers are the very definition of parallel and distributed systems these days. Top500 lists only the non-classified systems. The classified systems can be found the same way the police finds pot-farmers and meth labs, and since those use the same technologies than the non-classified systems..

    12. Re:Fastest We Know Of by parkinglot777 · · Score: 1

      But if the backdoor is for Windows on specific targets, via Windows Update, then it is highly improbably that they will ever be uncovered. Unless a very highly skilled technical expert was monitoring the target and also had the ability to decrypt the encrypted Windows Update data.

      Then you have proven that Windows, in general public, do NOT have backdoor. Specific targets are special cases (needed more due diligences in the process) and shouldn't be generalized because of "there exists" condition.

  9. And at Ft Meade by david.emery · · Score: 1

    NSA had no comment.

  10. The Swiss? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Those bankers must be going all-out on encryption.

    1. Re: The Swiss? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Nah, they're mining bitcoin.

    2. Re: The Swiss? by uvajed_ekil · · Score: 1

      Nah, they're mining bitcoin.

      Uh, you mean Ethereum? This isn't the old days of 2016.

      --
      This is a hacked account, for which the owner can not be held responsible.
  11. Americans don't buy IBM anymore, by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    IBM's currently working on the 100 petaFlop system using POWER9@14nm which will come online sometime in 2017, and POWER10@7nm, and POWER12@5nm. IBM has always worked on three successive generations of POWER processors at a time. POWER9 completed in 2016 so POWERx+1 arrives five years later so will see POWER10@7nm in 2021, and about three years later will get POWERx+2 or POWER11@5nm in 2024. Every POWER processors development cycles is about 7-10years long. IBM first started working on POWER11 in 2013 once POWER8 was completed.

    1. Re:Americans don't buy IBM anymore, by Cmdln+Daco · · Score: 1

      I have an IBM box in my collection that is a POWER1 system. It runs AIX and I think it will do 100 picoFlops or something.

      With POWER1 the central processor was a whole set of chips. It's also Microchannel Architecture.

    2. Re:Americans don't buy IBM anymore, by unixisc · · Score: 1

      At that time, the CPU was a bunch of chips, known collectively as the RS/6000.

    3. Re:Americans don't buy IBM anymore, by Cmdln+Daco · · Score: 1

      Yep. That's what is printed on the outside of the box.

  12. Unfortunately by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Their operating system is full of holes.

  13. I call bullshit by baker_tony · · Score: 1

    Trump's home PC that he browses Fox "News" on for non-fake news is more powerful than this Swiss PoS. His PC's the greatest, has the bestest Interwebs and most ultraflops.

  14. The Swiss don't have a need for nuclear bomb sims by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    So they must have really fancy weather forecasts now.

  15. Good summary, bad title. by blibbo · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Top spot != Top three. Is it too much to ask for an accurate title? Clickbait trumps accuracy? I can't think of another reason how this title could have slipped through.

    1. Re:Good summary, bad title. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Next time, you will see the same headline again when US got bumped out of Top 10.

      Of course clickbait trumps accuracy. Remember, this is /.

    2. Re:Good summary, bad title. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      >I can't think of another reason how this title could have slipped through.
      Slashdot editors are morons?

  16. Efficiency by uvajed_ekil · · Score: 1

    This Piz Daint is efficient, too, consuming less than 30% as much power as the Opteron-based Titan. TaihuLight is still very, very impressive, though the new one at Oak Ridge should top it.

    --
    This is a hacked account, for which the owner can not be held responsible.
  17. Will GOP gut the DOE? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    If the GOP/Trump plan to gut the DOE happens you can forgot about supercomputering in the US.

  18. Re:The Swiss don't have a need for nuclear bomb si by kav2k · · Score: 1

    The same supercomputer center has 2 redundant clusters dedicated to meteo forecasts, yes: http://www.cscs.ch/computers/k...
    And yes, the forecasts are fancy.

  19. Piz Daint by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Yeah yeah I know, named after a mountain.

    But I would like to see a supercomputer named Deez Nuts.

  20. Maybe a less offensive name ? by Laxator2 · · Score: 1

    The name of the supercomputer "Piz Daint" is extremely offensive in many Europen languages.
    But it looks like the owners don't care.

    1. Re:Maybe a less offensive name ? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You are easily offended.

      The "z" in "Piz" is pronounced as "ts".

      Piz Daint is a mountain in the Alps, originally spelled Piz d'Aint, which is Romansh for "inner peak".

      Romansh is a European language.

  21. What are they talking about???` by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I don't get it, the US is still in the top 5%.
    I don't get it, the US is still in the top 10%.
    I don't get it, the US is still in the top 20%.
    I don't get it, the US is still in the top quarter of all sovereign states.
    I don't get it, the US is still in the top third of all sovereign states.
    I don't get it, the US is still in the top half of all 190 (or is it 206?) sovereign states!
    I don't get it, the US is still in the top two thirds of all sovereign states.
    I don't get it, the US is still in the top three quarters of all sovereign states.
    I don't get it, the US is still in the top 80%.
    I don't get it, the US is still in the top 90%.
    I don't get it, the US is still in the top 95%.

  22. It's not a competition by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    but you still have to suck up the fact that you're losing. After that you can move on.

  23. That's what we get for upgrading to Windows 10! by gosand · · Score: 1

    I think a far more interesting article would be what are these systems being used for on a day-to-day basis?

    --

    My beliefs do not require that you agree with them.

    1. Re:That's what we get for upgrading to Windows 10! by athmanb · · Score: 1

      One of the first uses of the new system will apparently be a recalculation of this: http://www.cscs.ch/publication... with more accurate steppings.

      The homepage of that website then also mentions some aerodynamics stuff.

  24. Time to move my Quake II server by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    See you in Switzerland!

  25. The Dept. of Energy has the XK7? by Green+Mountain+Bot · · Score: 1

    I think we'll be okay. The XK7 will run AOL just fine for Rick Perry.

  26. The biggest computers aren't on the list by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Neither GOOG nor NSA discloses the size of their supercomputing clusters.

    We can get some idea of how big the former is by China's application to expand their "fastest" supercomputer. They were thwarted when usgov denied Intel an export license. If the threshold of feeling threatened enough to deny license is crossed only when doubling the size of the "fastest", then US military computing must be somewhat faster than the "fastest".

    For Google, you can get some idea from watts. Tianhe-2 20MW (seems to have lower cooling efficiency than designs published by Facebook), GOOG ~1500MW (globally, not in one datacenter, but single-location figures are still higher than Tianhe-2).

    1. Re:The biggest computers aren't on the list by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      then US military computing must be somewhat faster than the "fastest".

      what make you think the chinese/swiss military discloses the size of their supercomputing clusters?

  27. pattern recognition and AI development by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    pattern recognition and AI development and think IBM selling you a watson software system you will or could need a super computer to allow it to really grow.