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'Older Fathers Have Geekier Sons' (bbc.com)
An anonymous reader shares a BBC article: Men who delay starting a family are more likely to have "geekier" sons, a study suggests. They were brighter, more focused and less bothered about fitting in -- according to the "Geek Index" devised by King's College London. The mother's age had no impact, and daughters seemed to be immune. One scientist said a trend for delayed parenthood might mean we were heading towards a "society of geniuses" able to solve the world's problems. The findings are rare good news in the science of delayed fatherhood. Repeated studies have shown that older sperm is more prone to genetic errors and children are more likely to develop autism and schizophrenia.
Followed immediately by pointing out that men over 45 are virtually guaranteed to have autistic children.
Had my only child, a male child, at the age of 35. He is now 11 and is very much Dad's science geek.
Couldn't be prouder.
They were brighter, more focused and less bothered about fitting in -- according to the "Geek Index" devised by King's College London.
The findings are rare good news in the science of delayed fatherhood. Repeated studies have shown that older sperm is more prone to genetic errors and children are more likely to develop autism and schizophrenia.
Hrmmm.
tired so the kids have to get smarter and play with themselves.
It would certainly explain these results.
The older you are when you have kids, the more you are earning, the more disposable income you (and your parents or in-laws) can spend on quality toys and activities, instead of just trying to keep the heat on and food on the table. Also you're probably more educated, so there's that.
The Daddy casts sleep on the Baby. The Baby resists!
I was reading this on a plane last night, and it turns out that Oscar Wilde's comments on women and men and how they differ seem poignant here.
HBI's Law: Frequency of calling others Nazis is directly correlated with the likelihood of the accuser being Communist.
"Geekier dads could be taking longer to start a family and pass on geeky traits to their children"
My father found me to be a disappointment. He could never understood why I wasn't interested in cars and more interested in computers. As I would explained to him many years later, my older brother (not his son) was analog and I was digital.
My parents had me at age 41. Now 26 years later I can confirm this article is correct as I'm a huge geek....., obese, anti social and a huge shitposter.
"One scientist said a trend for delayed parenthood might mean we were heading towards a "society of geniuses" able to solve the world's problems."
That is the funniest thing I've read today. Hilarious!
-- Cheers!
Geeks by another name.
which will be over-run by immigrants in Europe.
Geniuses solve problems. They don't sit around and whine about them
Multiple genetic studies showed that older fathers correspond to higher genetic load (this is bad) for all offspring.
When do smart dads have kids? Later, when they're ready. When do autistic dads have kids? Later, when their successes outweigh their drawbacks, and they've learned to compensate. What sort of kids do dads have when they reproduce later? Smart. Autistic. Like their dads. Cuz genetics. Which is not to say that this is the explanation. It's just to say that the 'conclusions' drawn by this study (at least as summarized) are ... let's say speculative at best.
Older fathers have 'geekier' sons. Also, their sons are more likely to be on the Autistic spectrum.
Found the old scared white guy.
the kids have to get smarter and play with themselves.
Geez, it's not rocket science.
One scientist said a trend for delayed parenthood might mean we were heading towards a "society of geniuses" able to solve the world's problems.
For solving many of the world's problems, traits like integrity may be more important than intelligence. For example, once you get above some basic threshold of intelligence, integrity is what you want for police and security work.
But, even for problems where the solution is accumulating more scientific knowledge, it's not clear that intelligence, per se, is the limiting factor. Certainly there's going to be a minimum threshold of intelligence that's necessary - even if you give them a million years, chimpanzees are unlikely to find a cure for cancer.
But, in many cases, knowledge can be accumulated incrementally - like water wearing away at rock. And, when you're really exploring the unknown, there's a strong element of luck - like buying lottery tickets or breaking open a huge pile of boulders to find a diamond in one of the boulders.
And, there are almost certainly plenty of people who have the genetic capability to make extraordinary scientific discoveries who never achieve their potential because of lack of education - or even lack of healthcare and basic nutrition.
On average each parent contributes 30 mutations to offspring. But fathers contribution is approximately one per year of age.
Geniuses solve problems. They don't sit around and whine about them
Welcome to Slashdot. I see you're new here.
Isn't America already overrun by immigrants from Europe? I mean, for the last few centuries ... Or do you mean recent immigrants?
no more republicans!
we suck at it, but we worry about it (and a lot of other things, we tend to be neurotic).
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of this.
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the kids have to get smarter and play with themselves.
That would explain why they need glasses, which places them higher on the "geek index".
Repeated studies have shown that older sperm is more prone to genetic errors and children are more likely to develop autism and schizophrenia.
I rarely have any sperm that are more than a day old.
This checks out for me. My dad's father was 50 when he was born and is quite geeky about certain topics, did computer science in the 70s, big into history and engineering. I was born when he was 27 and, well, here I am. Just another devops ./ reader.
which will be over-run by immigrants in Europe.
Geniuses solve problems.
Geniuses also inadvertently create problems too.
History has plenty of examples, but the future will showcase autonomous software geniuses creating solutions that ultimately replace a lot of human-powered jobs, which our society isn't prepared to deal with, and Greed doesn't give a shit.
They don't sit around and whine about them
Well, technically you're correct. Hitler would be one hell of an example of autism and schizophrenia taking action, now wouldn't it...
They are not "immigrants" so much as "refugees".
That means they weren't driven by ambition to make their own way towards the American Dream; instead, they were settled by decree, usually in places chosen specifically to "improve" the diversity of "white" regions (like Minnesota); they remain insular, don't learn the local language well, live on welfare and other handouts, produce children with little respect for local values, and are just generally a nuisance rather than fellow participants of society.
For immigration to work, there has to be integration, other wise they're just invasive: An irritation and best, and an invasion force at worse. Make no mistake, this is a real issue, and should not be disregarded for the sake of avoiding an uncomfortable discussion about the future direction of Western society.
Causation != Correlation
A geeky man isn't going to be great with the ladies until later on in his life, when he's proven himself to be stable, loving, and lucrative in the tech industry; maybe he'll even be more likely to end up with a geek woman, thereby improving the chance that his kids will be geeky, too.
Is that not a much more obvious explanation? Well, time to read the article...
Follow the path of Karl Marx
All things being equal... anyone consider that maybe the old dads are just too old/fat to go play outside and prefer geeky indoor activities with their children?
I only look human.
My mother is a halfling and my dad is an ogre, so that makes me an Ogreling
4 sons, 2 daughters. My eldest daughter, who I had when I was 29, is autistic. My youngest daughter, who I had when I was 43, is 3-4 years ahead for her age at school. She's 5, can read, write (beautiful flowing, joined up writing) and taught me a word about grammar I didn't know yesterday. :-/
The "old sperm" stats don't stand up well with my offspring.
My boys are all geeks, just like their father. The eldest is 21 and the youngest is 1.
I caught the one year old brushing his teeth out of the toilet while his brother was peeing in it last week.
Last night, while mother was putting the other 3 in bed, he was playing under my desk chair while I was composing an email.
I became aware of a nasty smell in the room coming from below my chair and I could hear him smacking his lips.
He was eating his own shit out of his nappy (diaper).
I think he'll be the smartest of the 6, he not afraid to try anything....
Since the article does not actually settle on any causal relationship, just proposals, the only source of post-hoc bullshit is you.
that is why i masterbait daily....imean....
>> Repeated studies have shown that older sperm is more prone to genetic errors and children are more likely to develop autism and schizophrenia.
A geeky man isn't going to be great with the ladies until later on in his life, when he's proven himself to be stable, loving, and lucrative in the tech industry
There's a workaround. Move to the states and use your British accent. Worked for me.
Follow the path of Karl Marx
I follow the path of Groucho Marx.
The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
Bury your head in the sand.
My dad was 58 when I was conceived, and I exhibit Aspie traits.
... what about your filthy uncircumcised, ant-eater penis?
Older as in older than the chick they're banging, or older as in both are roughly the same more advanced age?
Still waiting on Serviscope_minor to wake up to fucking reality and realize that Jessica Price isn't going to fuck him.
Seriously, do not burden your kids with this. I know, I'm a geek and I hate being one. I hate the life that has been forced on me. All my childhood I have been a loner, bullied all through it and to the end of high school. I have been harassed and beaten, humiliated every single day. Shunned and derided. The conventional narrative enforced by movies (evidently not written by geeks) says one day I would have the upper hand and those who tormented me would get their deserved comeuppance. Meanwhile I suffered, the cool kids ruled. I would have given anything to be one of them. The girls I fell in love with shooed me away with a laugh when on a good day. On a bad day their popular friends would beat the crap out of me for daring to approach them. I saw those girls dating and later marrying and having kids with the popular guys. But things turn around, don't they? One day I would be their boss and they would be pumping gas for a living. Wrong. The cool crowd belongs to the ruling class, you see, they get it easy. They have the best jobs. Me? I have to bust my ass off in IT. Because geek equals computers. Forget science, it takes money to get a degree. So computers it is, 24/7, all year long. And beginning next month I'll have to train my replacement. What kind of shit skills do we think we have if it takes third-worlders with a basic understanding of English to do our job? If I had any choice, I wouldn't be a geek. I'd rather not be born at all. Don't have geek kids: it's a horrible life.
There is a mounting body of research that it is not just genes that are passed on from parents to children but epigenetic markers as well. These markers affect gene expression and suppression and are just as important as the genes themselves. Unlike genes, they are constantly changing due to environmental pressures thus providing a mechanism to pass on a sort of genetic memory of the parents life experience which should help prepare their children for the conditions they are likely to encounter. Research has shown that a mother's traumatic experience during pregnancy goes on affect gene expression even in their grandchildren http://www.sciencemag.org/news...
Had my eldest at 29 and he's pretty 'geeky' and loves science.
So do I, but the funny walk plays havoc with my knees.
Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
Who's this we, I think that's just you. Other people think we suck at it, turns out their not so great themselves as shown by their low tolerance for the ways 'we' don't fit with them. How you deal with that is your hangup regardless of you position on the spectrum, but it's always their problem.
There is no such thing as older or younger sperm. The sperms are constantly begin produced and reabsorbed. Who writes these things?!?!?
Can't play with kids since they're too old and tired so the kids have to get smarter and play with themselves.
That really is an eye-wateringly daft thing to say. As anybody knows, who'se had the benefit of grandparents taking care of the children, children and grandparents get along extremely well, in general. Part of this is because older people often have more time than the actual parents, but a large part of it is down to the fact that as you get older and more mature, you also tend to become more tolerant, creative and interested. So, where a young father is mostly interested in sex, beer, football and sex, an older father is more likely to have got past the more infantile stage of adulthood and acquired some interests in life - which he can then share with his children.
Do you really imagine that a man of 40 to 50 is 'old and tired'? Well perhaps you will be, if all you do is lie around on a sofa wasting you time. Life starts at 40, as the saying goes, and what it means is, you still have loads of energy, and now you also have experience and purpose. Some things you simply don't know enough about to really do until you are mature.
i had my daughter at 37 and she's a total linux geek , codes in python at the young age of 12 , but i think the fact that she fluently speaks 4 languages has someting to do with it
Adding my own anecdote to the pile, after years of trying I finally successfully knocked my wife up at the age of 37 (she was 32). Our identical twin sons are nearing three, and I know everyone thinks their kids are smart, but we've got doctors wanting to enroll our boys in studies for being almost freakishly advanced. They're definitely behind physically, so I work with them on that stuff, but I'm not worried at all when it comes to the academic side. My wife and I are struggling to keep up with their seemingly insatiable quest for knowledge. They already know all the states and have started to learn capitals. They're able to read and sound out basic words, and do simple addition but weirdly not yet subtraction.
Grandpa was a chemist, had my dad in his late 30s. Dad is an engineer and had me at 21. I have two *much* younger half-brothers and neither are "geeky" at all. I'm a software engineer.
That wasn't my experience. Worry about fitting in? Not really. I always had a few good friends growing up, and that was all I cared about. Even so, I learned to listen and not make an ass of myself, so existing in a room of strangers or vague acquaintances wasn't a problem for me. Sure, I had a few bullies to deal with, but most of them were poor souls who were themselves bullied and thought I would be an easy target. I wasn't. Neurotic? I believe I was less neurotic than the majority of my classmates who fretted over their popularity.
Geeks who breed true don't get to breed until later in life. Interpretation of results is key.
They were brighter, more focused and less bothered about fitting in -- according to the "Geek Index" devised by King's College London.
Maybe older dads care less about fitting in, and their kids learn to follow their own interests more. When I'm doing what I want I'm more focused because it holds my interest.
Nope, no sig
an alternative headline might be "Fathers who Spend More than Six Hours a Week with their Children Raise more Active and Stable Children".
of course that would piss off the Procrustean-egalitarian left, and it would outright terrify the "work 'em 'til they drop" business-friendly right.
so let's invent some totally bogus bullshit about telomeres and autism. wheeeee!
"They were pure niggers." – Noam Chomsky
But doesn't the hairy palms cancel out the glasses on the geek scale?
anecdotally, my father who had me at 45 was more athletic than 90% of people half his age. I still turned out borderline autistic (kidding -- I think).
my dad has a similar personality though, so I don't know how conclusively we can talk about the role of age.
I suspect the theory in OP is valid, or that your father/parents have more time to raise you (i was using the internet by 4), or a combination of both. Athleticism seems like a stretch. Fat parents aren't having autistic genius children.
My parents also worked from home, which further corroborates the time argument. My dad also spent a lot of time teaching me how the world expects me to act and how to be socially successful. I think in a lot of cases that part is missing because the borderline-autistic-genius parent are themselves socially inept.
Why? He's long dead. Why should I follow his path? I don't have to kill him. And even then I could simply wait for him to get at one of his hangouts, off him and through his body into the trash. But he's dead so I don't need to.
So do I, but the funny walk plays havoc with my knees.
Guess some Monty Python skits are out of the question then.
The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.