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Chris Lattner, Poached From Apple To Become Tesla's Top Software Executive, Quits After 6 Months (bizjournals.com)

Tesla said last night Chris Lattner, the vice president of Autopilot software, has left the company about six months after the electric car-maker hired him away from Apple. From a report: Lattner had led the software development team in charge of Autopilot. Tesla executive Jim Keller is now in charge of Autopilot hardware and software. The company announced it had also hired OpenAI research scientist Andrej Karpathy, who will serve as Tesla's new director of artificial intelligence and Tesla Vision. "Chris just wasn't the right fit for Tesla, and we've decided to make a change," the company told reporters in a statement. "We wish him the best." Lattner tweeted last night, "Turns out that Tesla isn't a good fit for me after all. I'm interested to hear about interesting roles for a seasoned engineering leader!" Lattner is a widely respected figure in the industry. He is the main author of LLVM as well as Apple's Swift programming language. We interviewed him earlier this year.

20 of 140 comments (clear)

  1. Engineer or Engineering Leader? by 0100010001010011 · · Score: 5, Interesting

    He is the main author of LLVM

    Way too many co-workers were forced or voluntarily tried the Engineer -> Engineering Leader route and turned out to hate it.

    Code, unlike subordinates, does exactly what I tell it to do. If a mechanical design of mine fails it's because I screwed up not because my subordinate did.

    1. Re:Engineer or Engineering Leader? by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Way too many co-workers were forced or voluntarily tried the Engineer -> Engineering Leader route and turned out to hate it.

      Not all techs can lead, but some of them need to. Non-techs can't effectively lead technical teams. Some may claim that "leadership is leadership" but that is not true. You can't lead if you don't understand the issues.

    2. Re:Engineer or Engineering Leader? by 0100010001010011 · · Score: 2

      Absolutely. The best managers I've had were engineers. The better ones were hands on engineers.

      It still doesn't mean it's for everyone. Did Chris hate Tesla or did he hate being a Manager or being a manager at Tesla? Sometimes it just comes down to a clash of A-list personalities. He clearly knows his stuff and knows the direction he wants to go with a project. Jobs may have been hands off with the direction of LLVM while Musk would be more hands on with the direction he wanted Chris to do things.

    3. Re:Engineer or Engineering Leader? by thebullshitpatrol · · Score: 2

      If you can't hop on the line and flip burgers, you don't know what flipping burgers correctly looks like, you can't gauge how much time and energy is needed to flip one, and your employees don't respect your ideas about how they should be flipping them.

    4. Re:Engineer or Engineering Leader? by Altus · · Score: 2

      He was a manager and a director at Apple, so its not like he was new to the challenge of engineering management.

      --

      "In America, first you get the sugar, then you get the power, then you get the women..." -H. Simpson

    5. Re:Engineer or Engineering Leader? by Big_Breaker · · Score: 2

      I have a different take. His previous development work existed purely in the digital domain. Even if he was successful running huge projects previously I think autonomous driving is a different beast that he was poorly prepared for.

      For autonomous driving you need to integrate noisy sensor data from a chaotic real world environment and somehow use that data in a logic process that makes repeatably good decisions and fails gracefully. You need to understand the abilities and limits of the sensors, the range of operating environments and you need to iterate in consultation with the sensor engineers to improve the data delivered into the software in a cost effective way. This is all "get your hands dirty" real world engineering - not his background.

      They hired a coder when they should have hired an engineer.

    6. Re:Engineer or Engineering Leader? by houghi · · Score: 2

      That is true, but you also do not need to understand all the issues in order to lead.

      I have seen great leaders who had no idea what I was doing and I have seen lousy ones that did and everything in between.

      The risk of a leader that knows it all is micro-management and the risk of a leader without the detailed knowledge is listening to the wrong people.

      I believe in general micromanagement is worse than listening to the wrong people. The second can be easily changed when found out.

      --
      Don't fight for your country, if your country does not fight for you.
    7. Re:Engineer or Engineering Leader? by MachineShedFred · · Score: 2

      Yeah, because techies hate challenging projects that advance the state of the art.

      The regulation is part of the challenge. Prove it works on a private closed course. Convince the lawyers. The lawyers convince the politicians. The politicians change the laws and regulations.

      But it all starts with making it work.

      --
      Slashdot still doesnâ(TM)t support Unicode after it was added to the HTML standard in 1997.
  2. Quits? by monkeyxpress · · Score: 3, Insightful

    "Chris just wasn't the right fit for Tesla, and we've decided to make a change,"

    He may have technically quit, but it kinda sounds like he didn't have a lot of choice in the matter. I also find it quite interesting that they talk about 'fit'. I doubt he is a high level asshole, given that post Jobs' Apple is not known for HR scandals, and in my experience personal issues have to be devastatingly bad before a company will let go of someone who knows their stuff. So maybe he didn't know his stuff (which bodes poorly for the Apple car), or he got off side with Musk (which bodes poorly for Tesla).

    Anyway, I hope he negotiated one hell of a golden handshake. I don't imagine the Apple car project will be excited about having him back.

    1. Re:Quits? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Informative

      Well, the guy is known for compilers and languages. He was asked to make autonomous car software. I honestly don't see why anyone would assume because he could do one means he could do the other. Especially when compiler and language work is refining things which have existed for a very long time and autonomous car software is making something that's never been done before. They're two very different mindsets. I'm personally good at the first, but garbage at the second. But my ego is small enough that I understand this about myself. I'm a good engineer and a terrible research scientist.

    2. Re:Quits? by Junta · · Score: 4, Informative

      Or folks just disagreed strongly with each other and it doesn't really reflect poorly on anyone (at least until one or the other side is proven right or wrong).

      In this level of doing things, compromise and moving forward may not be as feasible as it is in the lower levels. If you have leadership that really don't want to be on the same page, it will impact the quality of that leadership.

      I have been in places where it has been very obvious that executives don't agree, and one is ostensibly yielding to the other, but it's clear that whether he meant it or not, his leadership was undermining the other because he didn't genuinely believe in the other's direction. Even as he tried to tow the party line and said mostly the right things, you couldn't help but to see his true thoughts bleed through and inspire decisions that did not work well in the context of the stated strategy.

      --
      XML is like violence. If it doesn't solve the problem, use more.
    3. Re: Quits? by magarity · · Score: 2

      Why would anyone think he would be good at it? It's called the Peter Principle and it's truly evil. Fear it.

    4. Re:Quits? by HornWumpus · · Score: 3, Funny

      Dad (a PhD) tells me that a doctorate is proof that someone can come at a problem and learn everything there is to know about it and then extend the world's knowledge, if only a little bit.

      In my experience in industry, a doctorate is proof that a person could do the above, once, when they were young, not necessarily anymore. I've seen an awful lot of awful PhDs working, cluelessly, in fields outside their expertise that they treat as 'easy', while doing completely wrong. Some that can only be compared to 'know it all' teens.

      --
      John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
  3. Management wasting another good engineer? by ErichTheRed · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I've heard Tesla has a ruthless startup culture even though they're a huge company -- kind of the worst stereotypical SV startup taken to a new level because Elon Musk is so driven. If that's the reason he's out I'm not surprised. Coming from Apple where employees are pretty much pampered and living off the constant money flow from the App Store might be a pretty big shock.

    But -- this guy is the "main author of LLVM". I've seen this one play out over and over, and have experienced it personally. Almost every company that isn't producing actual software treats their IT and development resources the same way the rest of the company regarding career path. Every individual worker in non-IT/non-engineering departments dreams of becoming the supervisor, then the manager, then the director and maybe a VP someday...mainly because most people aren't passionate about typical corporate jobs. The problem is that people management skills and engineering/work skills are completely orthogonal. No problem in the other departments -- who would want to be some random report analyst when they could be the boss of a bunch of report analysts and never have to see a report again? This is a bad fit for many engineers, scientists and IT people though, because most of us got into the job because we enjoy it.

    Some companies are just starting to come around to the fact that not everyone is hard-wired for management and would rather just be doing more interesting and impactful technical work. That's how I've been able to structure my career (luckily.) When my current company figured out I was good at what I do, liked it and wanted to keep doing work like it, they gave me more responsibility on the technical side instead of a Kindergarten class of employees to manage. I'm hoping I can keep going in this way because I've done the whole department manager thing. I really tried liking it, but it's just not where my skills are best used. Being a senior engineer/architect type, teaching the newbies the ropes and figuring out our long term technical path is what I'm good at, and companies who figure this out with their smarter employees will benefit in the long run IMO.

    1. Re:Management wasting another good engineer? by dwightk · · Score: 2

      Coming from Apple where employees are pretty much pampered and living off the constant money flow from the App Store might be a pretty big shock.

      um... you mean, hardware sales?

      --
      Like anyone can even know that
    2. Re:Management wasting another good engineer? by tlhIngan · · Score: 2

      Coming from Apple where employees are pretty much pampered and living off the constant money flow from the App Store might be a pretty big shock.

      App Store money is pittance - most of that goes to servers, credit card processors and other expenses. And online revenue at Apple (covering ALL of iTunes and iCloud) is tiny compared to even Mac sales. Apple's not getting rich off the App Store - 30% is not a big cut when most of the apps are free.

      No, Apple is a driven workplace - maybe not ruthless, but one where people are driven to excel. Jobs may be an asshole, but he was an inspirational asshole - if he knew you were phoning it in, he'd call you out. But if you were doing something to your very best, you'd be the saint.

      Perhaps that was missing at Tesla - the desire to excel and be rewarded for it (even if it results in failure).

      I don't believe things have changed much under Tim Cook, other than not being publicly berated, tarred and feathered in front of all the Apple employees.

  4. Re:Main point by Desler · · Score: 2

    That would be false. It was after hiring him that Apple was willing to re license LLVM as GPL to get it integrated into GCC.

    The patch I'm working on is GPL licensed and copyright will be assigned to the FSF under the standard Apple copyright assignment.

    https://gcc.gnu.org/ml/gcc/200...

  5. Re:Explains Autopilot 2.0? by vtcodger · · Score: 3, Funny

    "At the moment it can't even stay in lane properly..." OK in Boston, but might be a drawback elsewhere.

    --
    You can't see ANYTHING from a car, You've got to get out of the goddamned contraption and walk...Edward Abbey
  6. Re: Main point by Desler · · Score: 2

    To add to my other post.

    Maybe that was true initially but Chris kept going on:

    If people are seriously in favor of LLVM being a long-term part of GCC, I personally believe that the LLVM community would agree to assign the copyright of LLVM itself to the FSF and we can work through these details.

  7. Re: Main point by _merlin · · Score: 2

    That doesn't even make sense. FSF doesn't need copyright assignment to distribute LLVM under the terms of GPL. The BSD-like license allows for that already. They never promised to assign copyright of all of LLVM to the FSF. That wouldn't make sense because it would prevent anyone from distributing it under the less restrictive BSD-like license.

    The patch to allow GCC to easily use LLVM as a backend needs to be GPL-licensed because it's a derivative of GCC which is itself GPL-licensed. Assigning copyright on that patch to FSF would have allowed integration into GCC. However, the FSF are opposed to making GCC modular in any way. They think this will be a gateway to integrating GCC with non-free (as in beards) development environments (yes this also makes it hard to integrate into FSF-approved development environments, but that's their choice).

    But clang/LLVM has been the best thing for GCC in years. It's provided real competition in the compiler space, and without that GCC was just stagnating and getting buggier. C++ support, error messages, compile speed and plenty of other stuff has improved enormously since clang/LLVM has been on the scene.