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President Trump Attacks Amazon, Incorrectly Claiming That It Owns The Washington Post For Tax Purposes (recode.net)

The Washington Post, which has been critical of Donald Trump and his administration in its coverage, has become the latest victim in Trump's Twitter tirade. On Wednesday, he accused Amazon of not "paying internet taxes (which they should)," adding that the company is using The Washington Post "in a scheme to dodge" the taxes. Quick fact check: Amazon doesn't own The Washington Post, Jeff Bezos -- in his personal capacity -- does. At any rate, Trump's furious tweets come a day after The Washington Post reported that a fake issue of Time magazine with Trump on the cover was hanging in some of the president's golf clubs. The timing of this is also awkward because just last week the president met with Bezos and other top executives to discuss ways the White House can modernize government and aid the tech industry. But the two have a long history. As Recode reminds: Meanwhile, Amazon is about to embark on what could be a lengthy government antitrust review of its bid to buy Whole Foods. Already looming large over the roughly $14 billion deal are the president's own comments: He has previously attacked Bezos and claimed the Post is a tax-dodging scheme for Amazon. "He thinks I'll go after him for antitrust," Trump said at one point during his campaign. "Because he's got a huge antitrust problem, because he's controlling so much, Amazon is controlling so much of what they are doing." Months later, Trump charged: "Believe me, if I become president, oh, do they have problems, they are going to have such problems." Meanwhile, Bezos isn't one to shy about his anti-Trump views either. At one point during the election, Bezos tweeted that he'd save a seat for Trump on his Blue Origin spacecraft, with the hashtag "sendDonaldtospace."

26 of 426 comments (clear)

  1. It's not true. by rickb928 · · Score: 2, Insightful

    But it's accurate.

    --
    deleting the extra space after periods so i can stay relevant, yeah.
  2. Really? by Opportunist · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Why the hell does anyone still care?

    Don't get me wrong, the president of the US is a pretty important person and whatever he does has some effect on the world. But do we really have to hear every fart he passes? Who gives a shit about this anymore?

    Wake me when he DOES something.

    --
    We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    1. Re:Really? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Insightful

      He's a unrepentant and serial LIAR, he has betrayed the Constitution of the United States (which he swore to protect and defend), and through collusion with the Russians he stole the election....Does ANY OF THAT count?

    2. Re: Really? by MightyMartian · · Score: 5, Insightful

      It took 14 months for Watergate to lead to Nixon's resignation. Why is it you think that this particular investigation should have such a shorter timeline?

      --
      The world's burning. Moped Jesus spotted on I50. Details at 11.
    3. Re:Really? by Freischutz · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Why the hell does anyone still care?

      Don't get me wrong, the president of the US is a pretty important person and whatever he does has some effect on the world. But do we really have to hear every fart he passes? Who gives a shit about this anymore?

      Wake me when he DOES something.

      Why doesn't everybody in the US care that the United States of America has become the laughing stock of the entire rest of the human race? Trump has actually managed to upstage Robert Mugabe in terms of incompetence and corruption and Turkmenbashi Saparmurat Niyazov in terms of being just plain 'loco'. All that's missing is that pee tape and Trump will have upstaged Berlusconi in being a lecherous pervert. If I was a US American abroad I'd start training myself to end every sentence with 'eh' and tell people I'm Canadian but, mercifully, I'm not American, so instead I can have endless fun asking my American friends to explain why their countrymen voted for Trump. It's kind of fun (if admittedly quite mean) to watch them squirm for a while as they try to explain how the electoral college works and why the electoral college is essential to American democracy until they finally give up an admit they don't understand it either.

    4. Re: Really? by doconnor · · Score: 4, Insightful

      "Why is it you think that this particular investigation should have such a shorter timeline?"

      Trump's complete lack of self control.

    5. Re:Really? by Freischutz · · Score: 4, Insightful

      The electoral college had its place in the early days of the US republic but it's a completely useless relic by now. It's by no means hard anymore for people to know the presidential candidates and know EXACTLY who they are voting for, there is no need for a trusted middle man who'd go and act on their behalf anymore.

      Give the man a cigar... That is exactly the right answer, but most Americans just struggle trying to explain the college's purpose. I have the most fun with Republicans, they are usually the ones who earnestly believe the USA would sink into the seas in a rain of fire, brimstone and liberalism if the electoral college did not guarantee the conservative populations of sparsely populated states a much higher voting power than they'd have in a system where win without gerrymandering by gaining the majority of the popular vote, so it tends to be Republicans who end up to defending the electoral college and gerrymandering to the death.

  3. Fitting by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

    He really is the president America deserves, he's an incredibly apt reflection of the population-at-large.

  4. The real news is CNN and their fake Russia "news" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Insightful

    From the very top, the CEO instructed the producers to keep pushing Russia because it fed the anti-Trump lib-left views and generated excellent viewing numbers.

    And here we are, Trump sees a cute woman, or Trump thinks this, is making the headlines. How about a former world renowned news source of excellence creating fake news after fakes new to push agendas and pander to their undemocratic viewers?

    See any MSM of CNN creating a muslim gathering in London? Nope. How about them throwing stage blood on a wall to create more drama? Fortunately not everyone that works for them sticks to the party line and leaks mobile phone evidence. But you won't see it on the BBC, NBC, or any other viewer obsessed network despite the obvious real news behind this failing company.

  5. Re: So what if it was for tax purposes? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    It's only smart if it's Trump avoiding taxes legally. The rules are different for anyone not lobbying him directly.

  6. Distinction without difference by mi · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Quick fact check: Amazon doesn't own The Washington Post, Jeff Bezos -- in his personal capacity -- does.

    Distinction without difference... The sentiment expressed is still perfectly plausible:

    • Bezos despises Trump and is likely to steer WaPo to criticize the President above and beyond what would be fair
    • Bezos is likely to have purchased WaPo with tax-considerations paying at least a partial role — the other big concern, no doubt, was to save money on lobbying, by flat-out owning the biggest loudspeaker in the capital.
    --
    In Soviet Washington the swamp drains you.
    1. Re:Distinction without difference by quantaman · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Quick fact check: Amazon doesn't own The Washington Post, Jeff Bezos -- in his personal capacity -- does.

      Distinction without difference...

      Actually there is a real difference. Bezos, Chairman and CEO of Amazon, is a different role than Bezos, owner of Amazon. Ethical people generally recognize the differences in these roles and try to avoid overlap. I don't know if Bezos is a particularly ethical person, but if he is he's made sure that the reporting staff feel perfectly clear to criticize Amazon and/or advocate for issues with which he personally disagrees.

      The sentiment expressed is still perfectly plausible:

      • Bezos despises Trump and is likely to steer WaPo to criticize the President above and beyond what would be fair

      Unlikely, if Bezos is ethical he gives the WaPo staff editorial independence (which is very much the standard in the newspaper industry). Now again I don't really know about Bezos's ethics, but I've never heard evidence he was unethical. And frankly, if the WaPo reporters did feel like he was trying to steer coverage they're the kind of reporters who would start complaining in public.

      Bezos is likely to have purchased WaPo with tax-considerations paying at least a partial role

      Though what mechanism? Did the WaPo change stances to be more anti-internet tax after his purchase?

      — the other big concern, no doubt, was to save money on lobbying, by flat-out owning the biggest loudspeaker in the capital.

      Does the WaPo align with his personal politics, and did that play a role in his purchase? Definitely.

      Is the WaPo being used to lobby to increase Amazon's profits? I haven't seen a shred of evidence and consider the idea absurd.

      --
      I stole this Sig
  7. When is it good to dodge taxes? by Balial · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I'm really confused about the president's position on dodging taxes. If poor people don't pay taxes, that's bad. But if a rich person gets a tax break, that's good. If one of Trump's businesses, or he himself, avoids taxes, that's just his business expertise. But if Jeff Bezos does it, that's bad again.

    Help me out here. I'm really confused...

    1. Re:When is it good to dodge taxes? by cdrudge · · Score: 4, Insightful

      If poor people don't pay taxes, that's bad.

      It's "bad" because they get all the advantages and benefits provided by being a resident in the country while contributing little or none of the costs.

      But if a rich person gets a tax break, that's good.

      It's "good" because if they get a break, then that means they are contributing. But since they are contributing more than what poor people are, then it's unfair. Rich people could be using the difference to "stimulate the economy" or otherwise let the money "trickle down" to the poor (even though both have been shown to not work nearly as well as proponents claim.

      If one of Trump's businesses, or he himself, avoids taxes, that's just his business expertise.

      See: Rich person

      But if Jeff Bezos does it, that's bad again.

      Bezos leans Libertarian/Democrat, not Republican. So that makes him a evil filthy poor person more so than a rich person. See: Poor person

  8. Re:So what if it was for tax purposes? by MightyMartian · · Score: 3, Insightful

    The tax information we do have on Trump indicates that he has taken advantage of rolling over losses to reduce taxes, so, in reality, even if Amazon were doing what Trump said, Trump's done the same damned thing.

    Just another bizarre outburst from the Tweeter-in-Chief

    --
    The world's burning. Moped Jesus spotted on I50. Details at 11.
  9. Businesses don't pay as much tax as you think! by ErichTheRed · · Score: 4, Insightful

    The interesting thing about this is that he's only concerned about tax dodging when it involves a company he doesn't like. I'm sure there are plenty of tax loopholes that is businesses have been able to use over the years.

    I think almost everyone knows that businesses don't pay the official tax rates, and the largest ones are able to pay zero or get tax refunds in some cases because they're able to buy loopholes and exploit them. Even small businesses, who are the most vocal about it, structure their transactions to avoid taxes. Wage-earners are about the only taxpayers who don't get these benefits because documented W-2 and 1099 income is directly tracked and taxed at the income tax rate. But, ask any small business owner what entity owns their car, house and personal debt -- I guarantee you the answer is "John Smith Enterprises, Inc." It's way too easy for individuals to just set up a corporation and filter every personal expense they incur through it. It's not technically legal of course, but that doesn't stop it from happening. And then those same people turn around and complain about being taxed and regulated to death...those arguments ring hollow for me.

  10. Re:Timeline of Treason by coinreturn · · Score: 1, Insightful

    Donald Turmp hates the Washington Post because it accurately reports on his treasonous crimes.

    I'm sorry that the Washington post documented your carelessly executed treason, Moscow Donald.

    Before the election

    Dec. 10, 2015 Lt. Gen Michael Flynn is part of a panel discussion in Moscow for the 10th anniversary of government-backed Russia Today, for which he receives payment (The Washington Post, Aug. 15, 2016). Officials notice an increase in communication between Flynn and the Russian ambassador to the United States, Sergey Kislyak, following the Russia Today event (CNN, May 19, 2017).

    Late 2015 British intelligence agencies detect suspicious interactions between Russia and Trump aides that they pass on to American intelligence agencies (The Guardian, April 13, 2017).

    March 19, 2016 Hillary Clinton campaign chairman John Podesta is sent an email that encourages him to change his email password, likely precipitating the hack of his account (CBS News, Oct. 28, 2016).

    March 21 During an interview with The Post, Trump lists Carter Page as part of his foreign policy team. Page had been recommended by a son-in-law of President Richard Nixon, New York Republican Party Chairman Ed Cox (WP, March 21, 2016).

    March 28 Political veteran Paul Manafort is hired to help the Trump campaign manage the delegate process for the Republican National Convention. He is recommended by Trump confidante Roger Stone (New York Times, March 28, 2016). Before joining the campaign, Manafort lobbied on behalf of Oleg Deripaska, an ally of Russian President Vladimir Putin. That deal followed a memo from Manafort in which he offered a plan that could Ãoegreatly benefit the Putin Government.Ã His relationship with Deripaska ended in 2009 (Associated Press, March 22, 2017). Manafort also worked on behalf of the Russia-friendly Party of Regions in Ukraine, helping guide the party's leader, Viktor Yanukovych, to the country's presidency. Yanukovych would later be ousted. (WP, Aug. 19, 2016)

    April 27 Sen. Jeff Sessions (R-Ala.) may have met with Kislyak at a reception at the Mayflower Hotel in Washington before a foreign-policy speech given by Trump (CNN, May 31, 2017).

    June At a closed-door meeting of foreign policy experts and the prime minister of India, Page praises Putin effusively (WP, Aug. 5, 2016).

    June 15 A hacker calling himself ÃoeGuccifer 2.0Ã releases the Democratic National Committee's research file on Donald Trump (Gawker, June 15, 2016). News reports already link the stolen data to Russian hackers (WP, June 14, 2016).

    July At some point this month, the FBI begins investigating possible links between the Russian government and Trump's campaign (Wired, March 20, 2017).

    July 7 Page travels to Moscow to give a lecture (NYT, April 19, 2017). The Trump campaign approved the trip (USA Today, March 7, 2017). This trip was likely the catalyst for the FBI's request for a secret surveillance warrant to track PageÃs communications (WP, May 25, 2017).

    July 11 or 12 Trump campaign staffers intervene with the committee developing the Republican Party's national security platform to remove language call arming Ukraine against Russian aggression. (July 18, 2016).

    July 18 At an event hosted by the Heritage Foundation as part of the Republican National Convention, Sessions and Kislyak have a brief conversation (WP, March 2, 2017).

    Flynn delivers a speech at the Republican convention, joining in the crowd's ÃoeLock her up!à chant. ÃoeIf I, a guy who knows this business, if I did a tenth of what she did,à Flynn said, ÃoeI would be in jail todayà (C-Span, July 18, 2016).

    July 22 Wikileaks releases emails stolen from the Democratic National Committee (WP, July 22, 2017).

    Jul. 27 During his last news conferen

  11. Re:Get this crap out of here by SlashDread · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Usually, I moderate, today Ill reply.

    Your wrong. -Everything- Chief Bozo says is news. If Chief Bozo disses the largest tech company in the world, that Big News. For me at least, being a cloud architect, and I regard that profession as quite nerdsy.

  12. Re:So what if it was for tax purposes? by jellomizer · · Score: 4, Insightful

    This why we need a businessman as president. Someone in business should be able to comprehend that a person can own many companies and not having each company interact with each other.

    But we don't have a businessman as president we have a Son of a businessman who used the wealth and fame to more or less just maintain what he got, vs. Actually growing the business. Because if he just did normal investments with the money his dad gave him, he could be much richer.

    --
    If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
  13. Re:So what if it was for tax purposes? by bluefoxlucid · · Score: 1, Insightful

    We need people well-versed in economics to run our public policy machine. Not just people who took economics in college, but people who have pushed the boundaries.

    Business isn't economics. What's good for business is good for a business, but not necessarily good for the economy as a whole. That isn't to say we can't accomplish things directly-beneficial to businesses and the economy, rather than things which have an indirect benefit to businesses by strengthening our economy. In reverse reasoning: taxing by revenue or jacking up payroll taxes would be bad for our economy and directly bad for businesses; thus there may be existing situations which, if remediated, are good for businesses and good for the economy.

    So here's an economics perspective on one small piece.

    Business payroll taxes are essentially an increase in wages without that increase going to the hands of the worker. That is: A business pays $60k to employ you, but you only get $45k, upon which you pay taxes. If you're not involved in making something which generates revenue beyond the cost of that $60k diffused through the time you put into each unit of that something (that includes any involvement in any activity the business requires to continue to function and produce that thing), then you're not drawing in enough money for the business to pay you. That means prices must cover your wages, and it means that prices are adjusted to a $60k wage while you receive a $45k wage.

    A payroll tax cut bringing that down to $55k means that any pressure on prices can yield roughly 8% further. If you have sufficient competition, your competitors may then gain an advantage (and profits) undercutting you a further 8%, increasing that pressure. The lower costs reduce risk, because a market dip is not as costly and thus doesn't have as strong a financial impact (it's 8% less severe), which stabilizes the business as well.

    Such price reduction means that consumers can purchase more (the difference). This kind of price reduction doesn't involve reducing wage-labor hours, but rather wages, without reducing wages received by the employee. That means no job loss, yet greater demand--jobs gained. Technically, that's active labor force growth (the same kind of economic growth as population growth), although I would argue that finding a way to reduce the payroll tax as such without reducing the effectiveness of government services rendered is a form of technical progress.

    So that would be good for business (lower costs) and good for the economy.

    That's a particular example. It's relevant to me because I worked out how to improve our social security structure and remediate many of the problems with modern welfare with a sharp reduction in individual retained taxes, a 0.9% marginal reduction in payroll taxes, and a 2.5% marginal reduction in business income (profits) taxes. Tax cuts across the board, while providing broad coverage for the welfare and security of the American people in the lowest and middle classes.

    Economics, finance, and business, all at once. Being a polymath kind of helps, I guess.

  14. Re:So what if it was for tax purposes? by mysidia · · Score: 4, Insightful

    We need people well-versed in economics to run our public policy machine. Not just people who took economics in college, but people who have pushed the boundaries.

    We should be pushing for DIVERSITY in our leadership. And I don't mean the Hijacked description of diversity called ethnic diversity.... I mean Intellectual Diversity and Diversity of Experience is even more important.

    We could start by Step 1. discounting political experience as a qualification to run for elected offices, especially discount lawyers --- instead of having lawyers be legislators - appoint them "Legal assistants" -- In other words, lawyers help to understand the laws but shouldn't have the role in decisionmaking.
    Step 2. Play up practical domain experience in decisionmaking, Get more scientists and engineers in office.
    Step 3. Implement Term limits for all legislator positions. You serve your 6 years house and/or 12 years senate, after leaving office you must take a 6 year break before running again, and that is IT... no more legislating for you.

  15. Re:So what if it was for tax purposes? by mysidia · · Score: 3, Insightful

    The word of caution is if you win that (Chances are you don't need to worry); people have very bad misfortunes, and are rarely happy - it can destroy family and relationships, many a lottery winner wound up bankrupt or committed suicide -- you are first of all best to keep your identity secret, because you're bound to have so many desperate people with all manner of sob stories coming to ask for a handout, that if you handed them $100 a piece, you'd be bankrupt.

    Take your winning ticket, lock it up securely in your safe: Don't tell a soul, and start contacting advisors to help setup the organizational Trust structure that will allow you to claim your winning ticket within the allowed time and remain anonymous and help you optimize your outcomes and happiness.

    By the way 40 Million X 1.09 ^ 65 = 10 Billion

    In other words... 9% Annualized returns over 65 years will do it.

    Interest rates are low these days, because of Fed and government meddling,
    that suppresses interest rates for debt and forces people to the higher-risk equities markets
    if you want to generate returns, but there have been times in the past where you
    could buy 40 Million worth of bonds and lock in a rate such as 12% - 15% interest.
    At 12% it would be 29 years to turn 40 Million into 10 Billion.

  16. He posts talking points by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Insightful

    MightyMartian does not know what he posts most of the time. He appears to get talking points later than most and frequently posts them word for word obviously not understanding what he is posting.

    He is using one that is at least 2 months old, he missed the Maddow "breaking news" when she got Trump's tax returns and looked like an imbicle on TV showing them off. So we can also assume MightyMartian is not a Maddow fan as well.

  17. The electoral college worked great! by tacokill · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Here in Oklahoma, we are thankful for the electoral college. It did exactly what it was supposed to do. What is it supposed to do, you ask? Simple: It's there to prevent tyranny of the majority so large population states, like California and New York, don't have an over weighted say vs smaller states like Oklahoma and Wyoming.

    If we had a direct population vote as you insinuate, then Los Angeles alone would overwhelm all of the votes of Oklahoma and Wyoming which deprives those states of representation. The electoral college assures their views are represented.

    Sorry if you don't like it but it's the law of the land.....and for good reason.

    1. Re:The electoral college worked great! by tacokill · · Score: 3, Insightful

      First, the states aren't just "geographic regions" inside a big national government. They are sovereign states and our national government is a republic of sovereign states. The history on that aspect is well covered and well litigated. (hint: It's the states rights vs federal government argument that you always hear about).

      The states are not just "artificial jurisdictional areas we call states". You grossly misrepresent their place in the pecking order.

      Thinking of the states from a sovereign perspective, Oklahoma has as much right to be represented in our national government as New York or California. Not more. But not less either. The electoral college and the senate are the most public examples of how we try to achieve that balance. We don't base it on population because NY and CA would always win.

  18. Quick Sanity Check by sexconker · · Score: 1, Insightful

    Quick fact check: Amazon doesn't own The Washington Post, Jeff Bezos -- in his personal capacity -- does.

    Quick sanity check: As long as Bezos runs Amazon, Amazon effectively owns The Washington Post.