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Mayors of 7,400 Cities Vow To Meet Obama's Climate Commitments (theguardian.com)

An anonymous reader quotes a report from The Guardian: Mayors of more than 7,400 cities across the world have vowed that Donald Trump's decision to withdraw from the Paris accord will spur greater local efforts to combat climate change. At the first meeting of a "global covenant of mayors," city leaders from across the US, Europe and elsewhere pledged to work together to keep to the commitments made by Barack Obama two years ago. Cities will devise a standard measurement of emission reductions to help them monitor their progress. They will also share ideas for delivering carbon-free transport and housing. Kassim Reed, the mayor of Atlanta, told reporters he had travelled to Europe to "send a signal" that US states and cities would execute the policies Obama committed to, whether the current White House occupants agreed or not. Reed, whose administration has promised that the city of Atlanta will use 100% renewable energy by 2035, said 75% of the US population and GDP lay in urban areas, where local leaders were committed to fighting climate change. "We have the ability to still achieve between 35% and 45% CO2 emission reductions without the involvement of the national government and it is why I chose to be here at this time to send a signal to 7,400 cities around the world that now should be a time of optimism, passion and action," he said.

298 comments

  1. That's what is supposed to happen by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Cities and states are the ones that are meant to participate under the Constitution.. not the feds. And this method goes on without the US sending billions more that we don't have to other countries.

    1. Re:That's what is supposed to happen by pecosdave · · Score: 3, Informative

      Exactly.

      This is awesome.

      They're proving we didn't need them with some accord to do what's right, they're proving we can do it on our own.

      --
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    2. Re:That's what is supposed to happen by Tulsa_Time · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I am one of those hated conservatives ... but I agree this is perfect...

      The Paris Accord was not a ratified treaty... there was no way to enforce it.

      If Cities and states want to voluntarily take action... go for it. That is how the constitution works...

      Watch out in those local and state elections however... ;)

      --
      5 out of 6 people enjoy Russian Roulette & 6 out of 7 Dwarfs are not Happy
    3. Re: That's what is supposed to happen by javaman235 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      That's sorely needed too. When you get into blue collar industries, you see all kinds of waste, including energy, that slashdot nerds or other engineers could easily fix at a profit for all. But there's this idea that it all has to come top down, so people stay in their niches, and the guys on top can't see the simple things from every day life. That's why really effective action against climate change, which is also makes long term financial sense, will best come from the bottom up: its a million small changes and actions for profit that all add up.

      --
      -The art of programming is the pursuit of absolute simplicity.
    4. Re:That's what is supposed to happen by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Billions of pounds of toilet paper is a resource that takes a quite an effort to transfer.

    5. Re:That's what is supposed to happen by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You could always wipe Hajji-style with a water bottle and your left hand.

    6. Re:That's what is supposed to happen by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      If Cities and states want to voluntarily take action... go for it. That is how the constitution works...

      Nope. They are forbidden from forming concords among themselves, let alone with foreign nations, without the consent of Congress.

      Article I, Section 10, Clause 3.

      As such, they* are violating the Constitution, and Congress ought to revoke their attempt to circumvent the Federal Government, and the Department of Justice ought to bring them up on charges under the Logan Act.

      You do believe in the law, right? And following the PLAINLY written text of the Constitution?

      *Cities being non-sovereign entities are dependents of the States(with the exception of DC, which is under the SOLE authority of Congress), and any state allowing a city to violate the Constitution is failing in its own obligations

    7. Re: That's what is supposed to happen by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You mean lazy, selfish right wing idiots who can't be bothered sit back on their lazy asses while once again good people step up. That's not the way it should be but only the way it is.

    8. Re: That's what is supposed to happen by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So as long as it is not enforced then its on to ignore. Never mind the possibility it might save your miserable excuse or your family, let alone the rest of the world.

    9. Re:That's what is supposed to happen by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You know nothing, Jon Snow.

    10. Re: That's what is supposed to happen by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      While I agree, you Aldo need leaders to actually lead. The US leaders are simply lining their own pockets which is truly awesome given there are no pockets in shrouds.

    11. Re: That's what is supposed to happen by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Not as much as you see with white collar industries. Producing unneeded "information" and trying to find new ways to sell nothing. Talk about waste of energy....

    12. Re: That's what is supposed to happen by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      When you get into blue collar industries, you see all kinds of waste, including energy, that slashdot nerds or other engineers could easily fix at a profit for all.

      The majority of engineers work in blue collar industries. Software "engineers" aren't going to march into corporate offices for manufacturers or construction firms and tell the Professional Engineers on site how to do mechanical, chemical, structural, or civil engineering better.

    13. Re: That's what is supposed to happen by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Business between children should stay on the playground, up until another school gets involved.

      What exactly does the U. S. Constitution say about the states and their commitments to anything outside the country?

      This is not "how it's supposed to be", it's like children passing notes through a schoolyard fence to find after school activities...

    14. Re: That's what is supposed to happen by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      They're not making a concord, they're just saying they will act in a way which happens to be compatible with one. Since the Paris agreement was mostly a collection of more-or-less unilateral commitments for a common goal, as opposed to a monolithic give-and-take trade deal, this kind of works.

      The main problem will be if higher government enacts laws that cities can't meet their pseudo-Paris commitments under. For example, federal or state law proclaiming no new wind farms, a cap on installed solar capacity, restrictions on encouraging domestic installations or taxes on green energy and subsidies for fossil fuels could prevent or severely hinder cities from lawfully expanding green energy.

    15. Re: That's what is supposed to happen by PoopJuggler · · Score: 0, Flamebait

      Bingo. While the Republicans are busy sucking the cock of their Money God the rest of us have to pick up the slack and actually do the good things that the world needs.

    16. Re: That's what is supposed to happen by PoopJuggler · · Score: 3, Insightful

      It's good but not desirable. The same way schools being forced to raise funds with bake sales is good, but not desirable.

    17. Re: That's what is supposed to happen by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Or get a Japanese-style electric toilet seat.

    18. Re:That's what is supposed to happen by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Virtue usually doesn't scale. It'll be interesting to compare what actually happens with what could have happened.

    19. Re:That's what is supposed to happen by mspohr · · Score: 3, Insightful

      So, you don't think the developed economies of the world who have benefited by trashing the planet should pay something to help clean it up?

      --
      I don't read your sig. Why are you reading mine?
    20. Re: That's what is supposed to happen by dcw3 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      It's good but not desirable. The same way schools being forced to raise funds with bake sales is good, but not desirable.

      Forced? We have some of the least cost efficient education on the planet. The school system where I live (Fairfax Co., VA) is funded by some of the highest property taxes in the nation. And yet, the waste and disregard for taxpayers money is blatant. And all the while, teachers still send home lists of supplies to coerce parents into providing what the schools could easily afford. Oh, and don't even think about not playing along if you care about your kid's grades. What a racket.

      --
      Just another day in Paradise
    21. Re: That's what is supposed to happen by dcw3 · · Score: 1

      They're not making a concord,...

      Let me understand your position. Indentations only matter if it's Trump and a travel ban. But the intentions of these mayors is somehow different? I guess we'll have to wait for SCOTUS to decide.

      --
      Just another day in Paradise
    22. Re: That's what is supposed to happen by dcw3 · · Score: 0

      What did you accomplish during the previous eight years? I'm sure someone will respond that it's all Congress' fault, but you could only use that excuse for the last six.

      As for the "Money God", people are hurting, and after the slowest recession recovery on record, it's time to try something different, wouldn't you agree?

      --
      Just another day in Paradise
    23. Re: That's what is supposed to happen by pecosdave · · Score: 1

      I think the belief we need leaders when instead we can have loads of individual actors on the same page is a false belief. We've proven we don't actually need Santa Clause to surprise kids with presents in the morning.

      Lining our own pockets - with our own money - instead of sending it to Paris. I'm happy with this situation. Especially since the biggest polluters weren't on the hook for anything.

      --
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    24. Re: That's what is supposed to happen by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That's sorely needed too. When you get into blue collar industries, you see all kinds of waste, including energy, that slashdot nerds or other engineers could easily fix at a profit for all. .

      Care to provide a single example that isn't already being addressed in one way or another?

    25. Re:That's what is supposed to happen by pecosdave · · Score: 1

      It scales fine, but in inverse of what you believe, - there's more support power at the base of the pyramid than at the top. Instead of a small group siphoning U.S. dollars to in turn crack a whip on us we're now doing it ourselves. There's more whips on this level and the money can stay where it's at - it's actually more effective at this level.

      --
      The preceding post was not a Slashvertisement.
    26. Re: That's what is supposed to happen by kenh · · Score: 1

      Re-read the summary - these are world mayors, not just US.

      --
      Ken
    27. Re:That's what is supposed to happen by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Holy hell.. People are like whot woot, they are doing it to spite Trump...
      No! City's and states DO NOT NEED the Federal Govt's permission to do what they think is right!

      People need to stop thinking the Federal Government owns the states.
      The Federal government is not the States Daddy.

      The may generally prefer to wait around for the Fed to throw someone else's money at them for a project, but they DO NOT have to wait for Federal Permission.

    28. Re:That's what is supposed to happen by sumsguy · · Score: 1

      OMFG, THIS!!!! People forget that the states are free to follow their own guidelines. If you don't like how things are done in your state, vote or move somewhere else. Really that simple.

    29. Re: That's what is supposed to happen by Izuzan · · Score: 0

      How dare those republicans think they can run their own lives without being told how to live by the government.

      Do you still need mommy to pack your lunch for you ? Do you honestly need to be micromanaged by the government to survive ?

    30. Re:That's what is supposed to happen by pecosdave · · Score: 0

      No state shall, without the consent of Congress, lay any duty of tonnage, keep troops, or ships of war in time of peace, enter into any agreement or compact with another state, or with a foreign power, or engage in war, unless actually invaded, or in such imminent danger as will not admit of delay.

      Oh my! The Sister Cities program is treason!

      So - these cities aren't actually signing onto the accords, they're just taking it upon themselves to strive towards environmental peace and that's treason? Even if they agree with one another to do so?

      I live in Houston - we've made agreements with surrounding cities to cooperate on bus lines (however poorly it's done), utilities, and how roads are going to route.

      After Hurricane Katrina we made agreements with New Orleans - IN ANOTHER STATE - to help their people out.

      No - I don't think you're looking at the spirit of the law here, I think you're just butt-hurt because you would rather the U.S. be enslaved to a foreign treaty and everyone to as centralized of a power as possible instead of proving we're capable of doing for ourselves on more local levels.

      --
      The preceding post was not a Slashvertisement.
    31. Re:That's what is supposed to happen by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yeah, but you're the first to bitch when you're left behind, complain when you on't get more than your fair share of tax revenue distribution and take from those that do, and gerrymander to get your way.

      This is like Flint or that North Carolina city that passed the bathrokm law. You're all pro-local, then get the state to come in when you dkn;t like the locals and the citoes do well,then complain whenthe federal level does the same to you.

    32. Re:That's what is supposed to happen by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yep, Trump wins again. Liberals will still be mad because a lot of that money sent to other countries would have ended up back in Liberal's bank accounts.

      Not that spending money reducing CO2 will have any effect on anything.

    33. Re: That's what is supposed to happen by omnichad · · Score: 1

      They're not making a concord, they're just saying they will act in a way which happens to be compatible with one.

      And I'm not tying my shoes. I'm just putting my shoelaces in an arrangement that keeps my shoes from falling off.

    34. Re: That's what is supposed to happen by skullandbones99 · · Score: 1

      Especially since the biggest polluters weren't on the hook for anything.

      The US green fund was a compensation fund for countries that are affected by the CO2 pollution from the US. There needs to be a cost for polluting so that market forces can act to reduce pollution.

    35. Re: That's what is supposed to happen by AmiMoJo · · Score: 4, Insightful

      All the countries with better and cheaper education systems have theirs centrally funded and managed. It seems like your problem is not enough government, not too much.

      The problem with small government is that it is too easy to corrupt. People like to present a false dichotomy of large vs. small, but there is such a thing as the right size too.

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
    36. Re:That's what is supposed to happen by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Oh my! The Sister Cities program is treason!

      It would be unconstitutional for Americans if Congress had not passed an authorization for it. They did, and continue to do so. Not treason though. Why would you say that?

      So - these cities aren't actually signing onto the accords, they're just taking it upon themselves to strive towards environmental peace and that's treason?

      You keep using the word "treason" but I don't think you know what it means. You may want to review the law, instead of reaching for whatever random word enters your head. Violating the Constitution is not in itself, a matter of treason, but it is still unlawful, and thus subject to restriction and even criminal prosecution.

      Even if they agree with one another to do so?

      I live in Houston - we've made agreements with surrounding cities to cooperate on bus lines (however poorly it's done), utilities, and how roads are going to route.

      Cities that are within the same state are governed under the laws of said state, your city's authority to do that are under the auspices of your state legislature, and the state constitution. And yes, your state government can exercise any number of prerogatives over your municipal government. Just ask the folks of Flint and Detroit in Michigan. Since you claim to be in Houston, I'll point out that your public transit is under the Metropolitan Transit Authority of Harris County. Formed after the Texas Legislature authorized local transit agencies in 1973.

      With cities outside your state, yes, they would be covered under approval by Congress. Check out the Port Authority of New York and New Jersey. Expressly approved by the US Congress. Same with the Kansas City Area Transportation Authority, the Bi-State Development Agency of St. Louis, and the Washington Metropolitan Area Transit Authority

      After Hurricane Katrina we made agreements with New Orleans - IN ANOTHER STATE - to help their people out.

      Done through FEMA, authorized to do so, by wait for it, wait for it...the US Congress.

      No - I don't think you're looking at the spirit of the law here, I think you're just butt-hurt because you would rather the U.S. be enslaved to a foreign treaty and everyone to as centralized of a power as possible instead of proving we're capable of doing for ourselves on more local levels.

      Apparently you, the person who can't even keep treason straight, believes a treaty with nations across the world, somehow puts the US in a condition of enslavement, and somehow does some sort of centralization. Nope, this was not done by the Paris Climate Accords, in fact, it created no central management system or agency at all, let alone turned the US into some sort of property. I think you're just screaming because I, correctly pointed out the requirements of the US Constitution explicitly place the necessary authority to conduct this kind of agreement within the auspices of Congress, and you, frustrated in your desire to pretend otherwise, decided to sputter and fume over it.

      The fact is, all these cities, counties, even states, are just posturing, their actions could be immediately banned by Congress, with the full and express authority they have in the US Constitution.

      This isn't even talking about the technical effects of any environmental remediation efforts, this is pointing out the existing state of the law. You can want to alter that law, but you should have the courage and decency to admit to its status.

      I won't hold my breath. People like you are known liars, notice how Trump decided to impose his plan to suppress the dreaded "sanctuary cities" so while you can pretend to support his effort now, if it inconveniences you, or just becomes a convenient political target, you'll turn on it, and use the existing law to suppress them.

      That's how you work.

    37. Re:That's what is supposed to happen by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Cities make a lot or promises. Countries do to. Neither has a great track record of keeping them.

    38. Re: That's what is supposed to happen by cayenne8 · · Score: 0, Troll

      The US green fund was a compensation fund for countries that are affected by the CO2 pollution from the US.

      Screw'em...they're not our problem.

      --
      Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.........
    39. Re: That's what is supposed to happen by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      EVERY TIME those republicans are left to "run their own lives", they destroy lives, they destroy the economy, they destroy the planet.

      Air polution, water contamination by the mining industry, oil spills, deforestation, pesticide contamination, mass extinctions, nuclear accidents, ecological disasters, housing market crashes, economic recessions. All these things happen because people are allowed to "run their own lives", and they run them the only way they know how: by being short sighted, selfish, sociopathic, fuck-the-grandchildren-I-m-cold-now pricks.

      So yes, "people" in general are too stupid, selfish and self-centered to know what's best for them. I know you're going to throw a temper tantrum like a little two year old when you read this, but that doesn't change reality.

      Humans need to be told what to do by a governement composed of well educated, intelligent and caring visionaries. And the reason we've never had that so far is because of democracy. Unfortunatly, stupid, selfish, short-sighted people outnumber smart, educated, caring ones, and they chose a governement in their image.

      Democracy is the tyranny of the masses over the thinking minority.

    40. Re: That's what is supposed to happen by cayenne8 · · Score: 0

      ll the countries with better and cheaper education systems have theirs centrally funded and managed. It seems like your problem is not enough government, not too much.

      The problem with small government is that it is too easy to corrupt.

      The problem with big government (especially the Feds) is that they are even easier to corrupt, due to even larger amounts of money.

      Another problems with larger, centralized Federal govt. is, that it tries to make "one size fits all", and is not nimble enough or answerable enough to the local needs as a smaller, local govt can be.

      --
      Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.........
    41. Re:That's what is supposed to happen by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Cities have borders and on the other side of those cities will be the factories and business providing jobs for people.

    42. Re:That's what is supposed to happen by cayenne8 · · Score: 1, Troll

      So, you don't think the developed economies of the world who have benefited by trashing the planet should pay something to help clean it up?

      Nope.

      --
      Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.........
    43. Re: That's what is supposed to happen by Archangel+Michael · · Score: 0, Troll

      Right, we send $ to China, India etc, for the pollution we make, which is substantially less than China, India etc makes. Great IDEA!!

      --
      Agent K: A *person* is smart. People are dumb, stupid, panicky animals, and you know it.
    44. Re: That's what is supposed to happen by RoccamOccam · · Score: 1, Funny

      It is well documented that conservatives, in general, are far more generous and charitable than liberals. Selflessness is not reflected in the forcing of others to pay higher taxes.

    45. Re: That's what is supposed to happen by Archangel+Michael · · Score: 0, Troll

      I work for a school district, and I couldn't agree with you more. We spend, literally Millions of dollars on stuff that has no benefit to students being educated. Test scores continue to stagnate and educating kids is not even the goal anymore. We literally have a two month window for "testing" in the spring, where the students are herded onto computer labs and tested.

      I can assure you, that most of what passes for "Education" are goals adults have in reporting to adults about how well other adults are doing with kids. Mind you, I'm not talking about Classroom Teachers, I'm talking about just about everyone else. The top down, FED, State, and local leadership can't focus on educating Johnny, they have feathers to line caps with. And for all the money we toss at "education", nobody actually measures actual results vs dollars spent.

      Here's what I know about kids performances in school, very little is affected by dollars spent. A kid's performance in school is more impacted by parents and home life than it is by all the educational bits being pushed by those at high levels. But we can't actually address parenting and homelife because that would be "Judgmental". In fact, money would be better spent wrangling the shits for parents than their kids.

      --
      Agent K: A *person* is smart. People are dumb, stupid, panicky animals, and you know it.
    46. Re: That's what is supposed to happen by pecosdave · · Score: 1

      CO2 isn't pollution and is a red hearing argument to justify any action the manipulators want.

      Plants breathe it.

      There are historical times when it has been much higher than it is now.

      Volcano's release it at staggering rates that may or may not outpace what humanity does. Regardless, even ones that appear to be dormant and inactive can still release it.

      If you want to lower CO2 levels plant more plants to breathe it in and quit polluting the oceans - something which all costal nations are guilty of, many worse than the U.S. The right kinds of plankton can suck that right out of the atmosphere.

      That money was meant to weaken the U.S. to knock us down a few notches so that we're easier to manipulate and control.

      Climate change is real and always has been. Pollution is real and should be avoided. The U.S. was historically probably the worst on earth, but no longer and we're improving all the time. Everyone on earth can learn from our mistakes, our contribution is in R&D that we are sharing, the fact the nations that didn't have to contribute despite being physically huge and huge polluters aren't taking full advantage of the R&D we've put into doing these things cleaner should be a larger concern. China already effectively runs on slave labor and has streams of our money coming in - they can clean up over there, they can afford the labor to implement clean factories anyways.

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    47. Re:That's what is supposed to happen by Topwiz · · Score: 1

      I'm thinking that the liberal backlash against Trump pulling out of the climate agreement will cause local governments and corporations to do more to become energy efficient than they would have otherwise. Therefore his action will be a net positive. Even if energy efficiency improvements / CO2 reductions don't produce positive climate change, it will help us move toward energy self sufficiency.

    48. Re: That's what is supposed to happen by Archangel+Michael · · Score: 1

      The Democrats have forgotten (if they ever cared) about the Middle Class, in their efforts to demonize the rich. For how can someone succeed if they are punished for even trying? This is how the Rich expanded their empire under Obama, who thought that "spreading" wealth around was a function of government, resulting in huge loss of middle class workers (Privileged white men), expanding the poor class. I am sure though that it is all Republican's fault, and not the fault of Saint Barry.

      The democrats have a great lie to tell the Americans, that they care about Americans. When you label the Middle class "Racist white men", you'll keep losing elections. Vote for Nancy Pelosi for President 2020!

      --
      Agent K: A *person* is smart. People are dumb, stupid, panicky animals, and you know it.
    49. Re: That's what is supposed to happen by sycodon · · Score: 0, Troll

      All that centralized shit worked great in the Soviet Union, Mao's China, Venezuela, etc, didn't it?

      --
      When Fascism comes to America, it will call itself Anti-Fascism, and tell you to give up your guns.
    50. Re: That's what is supposed to happen by ganjadude · · Score: 1

      there are no where near 4K liberal mayors out there so clearly some right wing mayors are stepping up

      --
      have you seen my sig? there are many others like it but none that are the same
    51. Re: That's what is supposed to happen by IsThisNickTaken · · Score: 1

      Indentations matter in Python too...

    52. Re: That's what is supposed to happen by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You do realize that not all ACs are the same person right?

      The particular comment you replied to said nothing about the travel ban, thus you attributing opinions on it to that person was inappropriate.

      Additionally, SCOTUS seems to have settled that issue so you can ban Muslims all you want for now.

    53. Re: That's what is supposed to happen by Highdude702 · · Score: 2

      There is no way to break through the partisan barrier that people like this guy and a few others on this site have. They simply peek at the letter behind any politicians name to tel if they're doing a good or a bad job. Unfortunately that's how a lot of the younger generations now look at it. It seems like somewhere along the late 90's thinking for yourself was banned from schools. And this is what you get. I fortunately was a fuckup during school so I didn't go through a lot of it and my father made me do home schooling, and not the way the state wanted it done. When I had to go back to school I tested past 6th 7th and 8th grade levels. I didn't go to school on 6th or 7th grade.. Was going to start 8th grade. They wouldn't advance me to 9th because they thought I needed to spend more time in school. The fact that I knew everything they were teaching In that grade meant nothing to them. They wanted more time to try to brainwash me I guess.

    54. Re:That's what is supposed to happen by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I really do have to agree this is good and desirable. I think Trump is a bad guy. But I have always wanted my country to stop thinking of, and talking about, the president as a leader. It was bad when people deferred to the previous presidents as leaders, but now we're in a situation where it simply isn't possible for any American to think of the current one that way. (And I am understating the situation and being very nice to Trump here!)

      I am getting my fantastic wish. This isn't how I wanted it to happen, and there is a lot of collateral damage, but here we are. Wish granted! America finally no longer looks at its president as its leader! Now maybe we can stop with all the "respect the office" bullshit. It was always a stupid outlook.

      My next wish is that Americans will draw the obvious conclusion from this: your votes actually do matter. Not just for president, but now your vote for governor and mayor means more than ever before, because more power really is going to be used at that level. And there's Congress and the legislatures and councils too, of course, but I don't think America is ready yet, for taking those parts of elections seriously yet. (Not that we don't need to; I'm just saying we're not intellectually ready.) But governors? Mayors? These are the new what-president-used-to-mean and I bet there are a fuckton of Americans who don't like who they have in those positions.

      So.. what are you going to do about your governor or mayor?

    55. Re: That's what is supposed to happen by AmiMoJo · · Score: 1

      You are comparing kids whose parents have the resources to home school them to the average?

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
    56. Re:That's what is supposed to happen by pecosdave · · Score: 0

      Whatever it takes to have more authority over us right?

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    57. Re: That's what is supposed to happen by AmiMoJo · · Score: 2

      Depends. The EU is pretty large in terms of the number of people it represents, but also pretty small in terms of the actual number of staff it has. It is also fairly immune to lobbying and bribery - ignore the Euroskeptic press - and does a lot that is in the interests of its constituents rather than in the interests of big business and the rich.

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
    58. Re: That's what is supposed to happen by rikkards · · Score: 2

      Except both India and China are going gangbusters in moving towards renewables and if the US was still part they would be getting the monies soon.

    59. Re: That's what is supposed to happen by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      They're not making a concord, they're just saying they will act in a way which happens to be compatible with one.

      Whurps, somebody's suggesting subverting the clearly written text of the Constitution.

      Since the Paris agreement was mostly a collection of more-or-less unilateral commitments for a common goal, as opposed to a monolithic give-and-take trade deal, this kind of works.

      Effectiveness aside, you can't deny that it is purely within Congress's purview.

      The main problem will be if higher government enacts laws that cities can't meet their pseudo-Paris commitments under. For example, federal or state law proclaiming no new wind farms, a cap on installed solar capacity, restrictions on encouraging domestic installations or taxes on green energy and subsidies for fossil fuels could prevent or severely hinder cities from lawfully expanding green energy.

      Or they can just say "No" to any agreements or actions meant to be in furtherance of this treaty, and put people up on charges under the Logan Act.

       

    60. Re: That's what is supposed to happen by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      How dare those republicans think they can run their own lives without being told how to live by the government.

      Republicans don't want that any more than Democrats do; they're just better at paying lip service to the idea despite their shared hatred for it.

    61. Re: That's what is supposed to happen by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You are not, and never will be, part of that thinking minority.

    62. Re: That's what is supposed to happen by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      While smaller governments may be easier to corrupt, there are many more of them, so there isn't that same bang for the bribery buck (lobbying buck, whatever). Whereas the US federal government controls a much larger pool of money and their policies affect things dramatically, so it is the big juicy target that lobbyists hit hard.

      Examples: banks lobbying to repeal Glass-Steagall (allowing the bubble to form that popped to become the Great Recession), health insurance companies lobbying to turn the ACA bill from a reasonable single-payer plan to the abomination we have now (leading to a massive increase in health care costs), internet providers lobbying to overturn net neutrality, etc.

      Power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely. Look at the former British Empire, the former Soviet Union, the current USA and China: these large entities lead to oppression. Bigger is not better.

    63. Re: That's what is supposed to happen by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Funny

      Mod this up +1 for "Most informed Fox News contribution" please.

      CO2 is the problem, numbnuts. It is a greenhouse gas and given the volume we have been putting out for a century combined with widespread deforestation, we will have ever increasing warming due to it.

      There is a reason scientific illiteracy is being fostered here in the US, see above post for the results.

    64. Re: That's what is supposed to happen by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Is that why blue states bleed money to red states? I've always been curious why that's the case.

      The blue states must be doing something right. I'd be happy to cut the red states out of the equation if their failures are deserving of it.

    65. Re:That's what is supposed to happen by wyHunter · · Score: 1

      This. A floor of 100bn per year - a FLOOR. How much income tax is that? Quite a bit. Whilst our infrastructure continues to decay.

    66. Re: That's what is supposed to happen by wyHunter · · Score: 1

      Let me start off saying I am a Yank not a European. From what i can see, with their incredible perqs, the MEPs etc. don't need bribery - they get it at taxpayer expense - but still, most of the money for education seems to come from EU member states - who are more like our American states - and so the differences aren't as large as you might think. The biggest problem in the US is that a) everyone has to "win" b) we are an anti-intellectual society. We've always been an anti-intellectual society and it's gotten worse in recent decades. We confuse ability to use technology with an ability to reason. Really, from what I gather about 90% of the population doesn't care about education of their own kids, much less education of other people's children. They do care if the kids aren't doing team sports in school, though. Rah, rah. All I can do is point to the decline in critical thinking in US politics on both sides of the aisle as proof this is true.

    67. Re:That's what is supposed to happen by wyHunter · · Score: 1

      So you think the paying money to North Korea would end up cleaning up the planet? More, I'd rather see the US, Canada, Australia, and Europe rebuild their own infrastructures and manufacturing economies to build stuff cheaply and with low environmental impact, which the citizens of these lands care about.

    68. Re: That's what is supposed to happen by allcoolnameswheretak · · Score: 1

      There are historical times when it has been much higher than it is now.

      This is a real red herring argument. It doesn't matter if it was higher twenty million years ago when dinosaurs were roaming the earth. The important thing is how fast it is changing and if life on this planet has the time to adapt or not.
      The current speed of CO2 and warming increase is unprecedented. Changes that usually take thousands of years or longer are happening in decades.

      If you want to lower CO2 levels plant more plants to breathe it in and quit polluting the oceans

      Easier said than done. 200,000 acres of rainforest are burned every day. This does not include other types of forest that are also being destroyed.

    69. Re:That's what is supposed to happen by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Right. This is the way America is SUPPOSED to work.

      Now, everyone in the nation contribute to a Go Fund Me account so these guys can actually do something.

      What should we call it? Maybe something along the lines of "THIS IS THE SAME AS PAYING TAXES YOU DUMB F**KS"

      Naw, it'll never work.

    70. Re:That's what is supposed to happen by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Thanks for finally admitting that you're a big-government nanny-stater who wants Big Brother to relieve you of responsibility for yourself.

    71. Re: That's what is supposed to happen by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Direct personal attack. No other argument presented.

      Yep. I think we have one of those little two year olds I was talking about.

      Maybe I'm not part of the thinking minority. But maybe I`m just smart enough to know that 1) There is one, and 2) THEY have to be the ones in power.

      Are you ?

    72. Re: That's what is supposed to happen by Archangel+Michael · · Score: 1

      Resources being willing and able to home school, is a real tough hurdle.

      Household income
      Although Rudner found that the median household income of homeschooling families was higher than the median household income of families with children nationwide, the Parent-NHES:1999 indicates that the household income of homeschoolers, reported in ranges from less than $25,000 to over $75,000, is the same as the household income of nonhomeschoolers. The same percentage of homeschooled and nonhomeschooled students lived in households with annual incomes of $50,000 or less (64 percent)2.

      --
      Agent K: A *person* is smart. People are dumb, stupid, panicky animals, and you know it.
    73. Re: That's what is supposed to happen by Archangel+Michael · · Score: 1
      --
      Agent K: A *person* is smart. People are dumb, stupid, panicky animals, and you know it.
    74. Re: That's what is supposed to happen by Archangel+Michael · · Score: 1

      AND? Your point doesn't refute mine. Your point is actually meaningless ... just like the Accords. The accords are just "guidelines", or so It has been alleged in debates about it being a "Treaty" or not. ;)

      --
      Agent K: A *person* is smart. People are dumb, stupid, panicky animals, and you know it.
    75. Re: That's what is supposed to happen by skullandbones99 · · Score: 1

      The consequences of rapid climate change will include:

      a) lack of fresh water resulting in "water wars"
      b) lack of fertile land for agriculture
      c) mass human migration from areas that no longer support human life all year round
      d) religious wars due to invasions of peoples with different cultures eg. Christians vs Muslims
      e) some human cultures dying off due to lower birth rates resulting in culture takeovers via stealth eg. Christian countries becoming dominated by Islam.
      f) reduction in meat production due to restrictions caused by animal methane greenhouse gas pollution
      g) sea level rises destroying highly populated areas on the coast such as New York

      In addition the Earth's human population in 1971 was about 3.75 billion people. In 46 years, the human population has doubled. The Earth cannot sustain this massive increase in needed resources into the future for very long.

      So basically we are doomed if no action is taken.

      In late news: The sun's temperature is slowly increasing which will make the Earth uninhabitable in 1 billion years time. Best to book your flight to Mars soon...

    76. Re: That's what is supposed to happen by Archangel+Michael · · Score: 1

      For those marking this "Troll", how about not kneejerking reaction based on "feelings" Refute with facts.

      https://www.nheri.org/research...

      HSLDA Study

      The Home School Legal Defense Association (HSLDA) commissioned a study called the "Homeschool Progress Report 2009." 3 This report did look at demographics. This study found that:

      "Homeschoolers are still achieving well beyond their public school counterparts—no matter what their family background, socioeconomic level, or style of homeschooling."

      Source https://wehavekids.com/educati...

      Home Schooled kids have parents that are actively involved in their child's education, which is IMHO the #1 reason kids succeed or fail in schools. Not money, not teachers, not staff, not schools. I know, because I work in Public Education. Parental involvement is key indicator to school success.

      --
      Agent K: A *person* is smart. People are dumb, stupid, panicky animals, and you know it.
    77. Re: That's what is supposed to happen by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's all about stopping the next Oklahoma City bombing you fucking terrorist lover.

    78. Re: That's what is supposed to happen by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's because of the small state bonus. Small states have a disproportionate pull when budgeting happens because there are more of them and the Presidential race gives them an additional 2 votes that they shouldn't get.

    79. Re: That's what is supposed to happen by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Not the original A.C., but is that really an accurate answer? You really think your non-useful sentence "showed him" or something? Lol

    80. Re:That's what is supposed to happen by dhawton · · Score: 1

      How much has China, India, etc paid in? Exactly.

    81. Re: That's what is supposed to happen by dcw3 · · Score: 1

      Nice hijack. Nobody said anything about large vs. small govt. But I'll play just because Ami knows I'm a proponent of smaller govt.

      Please point to the evidence that smaller governments are easier to corrupt. Let me help you with that, and look at the chart here, and tell me the size of some of the least corrupt governments.
      https://www.forbes.com/sites/m...

      --
      Just another day in Paradise
    82. Re: That's what is supposed to happen by dcw3 · · Score: 1

      You make a lot of assumptions about my partisanship based upon what? Trust me, I've cursed across at both sides.

      --
      Just another day in Paradise
    83. Re:That's what is supposed to happen by Nogrial · · Score: 0

      Also proving that we don't need big government to push these kinds of policies. Small, local government is the way to go.

    84. Re:That's what is supposed to happen by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Original AC here: Indeed, the other AC is right, all you've got is a pointless rejoinder where you whinge over your pretense of being upset over authority, but that hypocrisy has already been addressed, and your own factually deficient screed, well, of course, you gave no reconsideration of your errors.

      Just a vacuous retort.

      Why? What do you think you accomplished? What are you feeling when you make such a remark?

    85. Re:That's what is supposed to happen by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Sure, right after the "developing" countries give back all their computers and phones and medicines and weapons.

      After all, if they're blaming the developed nations for developing while damaging the environment, surely they don't want to benefit from that damage! That would be immoral and hypocritical!

    86. Re: That's what is supposed to happen by mspohr · · Score: 1

      Since you are ignorant, I googled it for you.
      China $32 billion in 2016 (external climate aid)
      India $11 billion (internal budget)
      (The US is becoming irrelevant)

      --
      I don't read your sig. Why are you reading mine?
    87. Re: That's what is supposed to happen by david_thornley · · Score: 1

      CO2 isn't pollution and is a red hearing argument to justify any action the manipulators want. Plants breathe it.

      CO2 in excess is pollution, regardless of what breathes it. It is already causing problems.

      There are historical times when it has been much higher than it is now.

      False. Those times are prehistorical, not historical. It really doesn't matter to us, as a practical matter, what the world was like fifty million years ago. What matters is that we evolved under certain conditions, and civilization developed under certain conditions, and so major changes are going to disrupt things.

      Volcano's release it at staggering rates that may or may not outpace what humanity does.

      Actually, we measure these things. Volcanos are a very minor source.

      If you want to lower CO2 levels plant more plants to breathe it in and quit polluting the oceans

      Plants can't handle an increase of this size, and they're a temporary measure anyway since they eventually rot and release the CO2 to the air. There have been experiments with trying to create blooms in the ocean that will result in plants tying up carbon in the hope that they'll sink to the bottom, but last I checked they didn't go very well.

      That money was meant to weaken the U.S. to knock us down a few notches

      That money is far too little to have that effect. The amount of money needed to go down a notch is really, really big to a very large economy.

      --
      "When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
    88. Re: That's what is supposed to happen by david_thornley · · Score: 1

      No, actually, it's not well documented, particularly if we're considering charity towards everyone. Conservatives are more likely to give to people like themselves, not people in general who need help. Conservatives give more money to churches, and although churches are pretty much automatically tax-deductible they don't spend all their money on charity. The situation is a lot more complicated than that.

      Selflessness is reflected in me campaigning to have my own taxes raised.

      --
      "When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
    89. Re: That's what is supposed to happen by Highdude702 · · Score: 1

      I wasn't talking about you I was talking about PoopJuggler. From your objection to his comment I would have said you have a rather level head. But apparently I wasn't able make the meaning of my post obvious enough. Basically I learned more outside of school than the school system in Las Vegas was able to teach me. Even as a fuckup. also "My team go!" politics is fucking retarded also. If we had less of that, maybe the world wouldn't be as fucked up as it is.

    90. Re: That's what is supposed to happen by dcw3 · · Score: 1

      Agreed.

      --
      Just another day in Paradise
    91. Re:That's what is supposed to happen by Ferretman · · Score: 1

      Well said sir.

      Ferret

      --
      Sic gorgiamus allos subjectatos nunc
    92. Re: That's what is supposed to happen by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Oklahoma City was an American

    93. Re: That's what is supposed to happen by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      A kid's performance in school is more impacted by parents and home life than it is by all the educational bits being pushed by those at high levels. But we can't actually address parenting and homelife because that would be "Judgmental". In fact, money would be better spent wrangling the shits for parents than their kids.

      Sure man, you want to run the lives of people even more. How enlightened and authoritarian of you.

      Your booted heel is sure nice and considerate.

      Or maybe you're just out of touch, and mysteriously working in a position where you hate your job.

      Maybe you should get a life coach.

      PS, we're boycotting those tests, and filing lawsuits because the schools ARE underfunded.

    94. Re: That's what is supposed to happen by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You are getting troll mods because you do it all the time, then use your sock puppets to mod yourself up, ive been watching you dribble shit for years, suck it up princess.

    95. Re: That's what is supposed to happen by cayenne8 · · Score: 1

      You know...I"m gonna be long dead and gone and unremembered by the time that all happens...so, what do I care?

      --
      Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.........
    96. Re: That's what is supposed to happen by RoccamOccam · · Score: 1

      Firstly, you don't need to campaign to have your own taxes raised. You can give more than required, if you choose, already. So don't pretend that.

      Secondly, you are wrong in your claim that conservatives are not more likely to give to "people in general who need help". See here.

      "They were also 23 percentage points more likely to volunteer. When considering the average dollar amounts of money donated and time volunteered, the gap between the groups increases even further: religious people gave nearly four times more dollars per year, on average, than secularists ($2,210 versus $642). They also volunteered more than twice as often (12 times per year, versus 5.8 times)."

      and

      These enormous differences are not a simple artifact of religious people giving to their churches. Religious people are more charitable with secular causes, too. For example, in 2000, religious people were 10 percentage points more likely than secularists to give money to explicitly nonreligious charities, and 21 points more likely to volunteer. The value of the average religious household’s gifts to nonreligious charities was 14 percent higher than that of the average secular household, even after correcting for income differences. Religious people were also far more likely than secularists to give in informal, nonreligious ways. In 2002, religious people were far more likely to donate blood than secularists, to give food or money to a homeless person, and even to return change mistakenly given them by a cashier."

      Now, I admit that this example conflates "religious people" with conservatives, but the strong correlation between those two groups is even better documented.

    97. Re: That's what is supposed to happen by david_thornley · · Score: 1

      Your source doesn't give sources, and lists raw statistics like they were the final word. The time I tried digging into sources, they seemed to indicate a more complicated situation. I'd like to see studies with a few more things controlled for.

      If I give another couple thousand to the Federal government, it will have no noticeable effect on the Federal budget. If I get my tax bracket to do that, it will have an effect.

      --
      "When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
    98. Re: That's what is supposed to happen by RoccamOccam · · Score: 1

      If I give another couple thousand to the Federal government, it will have no noticeable effect on the Federal budget. If I get my tax bracket to do that, it will have an effect.

      But that is not selflessness. Not wanting higher and higher taxes is the quality on which liberals *constantly* claim that conservatives are "selfish", when the opposite is clearly true. You might have some argument if you didn't push for tax hikes in tax brackets other than your own, but you couldn't honestly claim that.

    99. Re:That's what is supposed to happen by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Constitution Article I section 10.
      No State shall enter into any Treaty, Alliance, or Confederation; grant Letters of Marque...

      I'm guessing most states have superior rights over their cities, so not sure how a city can enter into a treaty in usurpation of the states power.

    100. Re: That's what is supposed to happen by jwhitener · · Score: 1

      All the countries with better and cheaper education systems have theirs centrally funded and managed. It seems like your problem is not enough government, not too much.

      The problem with small government is that it is too easy to corrupt. People like to present a false dichotomy of large vs. small, but there is such a thing as the right size too.

      I lean left on most issues, but a conservative once told me "you might think you like the idea of centrally controlled education system, until an election happens and you end up with a far right religious congress controlled by zealots who ban teaching evolution in all 50 states with one new law...".

      My initial reaction was... well, our electorate would never let that happen. But after seeing trump get elected.. I don't have as much faith in the electorate as I once did.

      I think I'd still rather see a Federally guided, centrally planned, education system. But that scenario the conservative presented to me did make me think.

    101. Re: That's what is supposed to happen by david_thornley · · Score: 1

      I want the system set up to serve people as well as possible. This includes increasing my own taxes. I don't mind if every bracket below me avoids tax hikes.

      You are telling me that conservatives are selfless in wanting their taxes to be lower at the expense of less fortunate people. Right.

      --
      "When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
  2. Old news by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    This is old news. The political will to reduce carbon emissions has been with city mayors long before Donald Trump has been President - it's called the Compact of Mayors. 400 cities joined the organization to reduce carbon emissions and that was in 2015.

  3. The Art Of The Empty Gesture by SuperKendall · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Almost all of the carbon emission targets will naturally be met anyway by natural decline in carbon emission. Greater uptake in natural gas use, much greater increase in Solar use (since prices for solar have been falling over the past few years), greater uptake in electric cars - it all means most cities will not actually have to to anything at all to meet the specious goals set forth. Paris was always meaningless from a carbon output perspective. We'll vastly exceed the goals set forth by 2028...

    I wonder if these cities ALSO plan to funnel billions of dollars to third world slush funds, which was the real goal of the Paris accords. If so, I imagine the taxpayers may have something to say about that...

    --
    "There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
    1. Re:The Art Of The Empty Gesture by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The Paris Accord paid third world countries. That is why they signed up.

      Even North Korea. They said "Free money? Where do I sign up?".

    2. Re:The Art Of The Empty Gesture by Brett+Buck · · Score: 1

      But the value-signalling quality is off the charts!

    3. Re:The Art Of The Empty Gesture by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

      So you agree, Donald Trump's denunciation of the treaty was pointless, just an act of grandstanding as he boldly claims that he'll negotiate a better deal, pretending that it was, in some way a harmful injury to America that he saved us from, when in fact, it was not, and he could have simply managed to do nothing, and still gotten away with saying it was working, making his actions pointless. He didn't even get the credit he would have if he'd submitted it to the Senate.

      Glad you realized this, because while it's not an impeachable offense, it is something to which you should make Trump realize is a fool's victory. He's really bad about that, taking wasteful actions that cause more harm to his interests than they advance.

      Much like his faked Time Magazine covers. Seriously, an act of vanity like that? I bet the writers for SNL wish they weren't on summer hiatus. Oh well, at least the satirical shows will have plenty of fodder come the fall.

    4. Re:The Art Of The Empty Gesture by Gravis+Zero · · Score: 1, Troll

      I wonder if these cities ALSO plan to funnel billions of dollars to third world slush funds, which was the real goal of the Paris accords.

      You do realize the the penalties were always voluntary and that each country sets it's own goals, right? There was never going to be any money going anywhere, you rat-swindler.

      --
      Anons need not reply. Questions end with a question mark.
    5. Re:The Art Of The Empty Gesture by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I wonder if these cities ALSO plan to funnel billions of dollars to third world slush funds, which was the real goal of the Paris accords.

      You do realize the the penalties were always voluntary and that each country sets it's own goals, right? There was never going to be any money going anywhere, you rat-swindler.

      Then why the huge tantrum from the left over it? It must have meant something to someone.

    6. Re:The Art Of The Empty Gesture by whoever57 · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Almost all of the carbon emission targets will naturally be met anyway by natural decline in carbon emission..... much greater increase in Solar use (since prices for solar have been falling over the past few years),

      You haven't really thought it through, have you?

      What do you think has caused solar prices to reduce? Did it ever occur to you that technological progress which has driven costs down might be related to the government incentives in many countries?

      As for the "billions of dollars". Do some research on how much the US was supposed to contribute and how much it actually has (hint, the latter number isn't measured in billions).

      In future, please try to avoid getting your facts from the Koch brothers and other fossil fuel backers.

      Oh, and finally, the program under which the Federal government provided loan guarantees to Solyndra actually made a profit for the US government.

      --
      The real "Libtards" are the Libertarians!
    7. Re:The Art Of The Empty Gesture by thegarbz · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Yeah because carbon reduction would have happened naturally and has nothing to do with investments from governments. /Sarcasm

      There are countries far ahead of the USA who analysts say will struggle to meet the emissions targets. So good luck doing it by natural attrition with the fed's opposed to it at every turn.

      I wonder if these cities ALSO plan to funnel billions of dollars to third world slush funds, which was the real goal of the Paris accords.

      Not sure what upsets me more, that you don't understand the agreement or that as an American who rose to power by climbing up the general decay of the environment and who stand on your hill of moral superiority ignoring your almost unmatchably high CO2 emissions per capita, with that sentence you're effectively the biggest arseholes to ever arsehole.

    8. Re:The Art Of The Empty Gesture by someone1234 · · Score: 1

      So, if all of this was as easy as pie, why the Orange Clown went back on it? I guess, it was because of cheap popularity points in Idiocracy?

      --
      Patents Drive Free Software as Hurricanes Drive Construction Industry
    9. Re:The Art Of The Empty Gesture by someone1234 · · Score: 1

      It is not the "left" who want to put a brake on man-made climate change, it is everyone who wants a livable planet 100 years in the future.

      --
      Patents Drive Free Software as Hurricanes Drive Construction Industry
    10. Re:The Art Of The Empty Gesture by schleimkeim · · Score: 1

      Don't insult bowling balls. What did they ever do to you?

    11. Re:The Art Of The Empty Gesture by shilly · · Score: 2

      The fact of an existing trend is completely orthogonal to the efficacy or otherwise of a city's actions in affecting climate change. If a city buys EV buses and promotes public transport more generally, its CO2e from transport will be lower than it would otherwise have been. That kind of action is exactly what these cities are committing to.

    12. Re:The Art Of The Empty Gesture by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      the Orange Clown

      Why not just call him Ronald McDonald?

    13. Re: The Art Of The Empty Gesture by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So babies. Born tomorrow. They're an important voting bloc; I agree.

    14. Re:The Art Of The Empty Gesture by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      ALSO plan to funnel billions of dollars to third world slush funds, which was the real goal of the Paris accords. If so, I imagine the taxpayers may have something to say about that..

      God forbid that you have to actually pay some money for a problem you historically played the biggest part in causing and have now mostly just moved offshore (except for the military of course). But don't worry, whilst Americans and their pets are busy getting really fat and the US military uses 1/4 million barrels of oil a day protecting "freedom", the Chinese have stepped up and are spending money on infrastructure that will actually help the environment and the people in those developing countries.

    15. Re: The Art Of The Empty Gesture by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Whoa, there was most certainly money going somewhere to the tune of a few billion dollars. Please go read the accord yourself before spouting nonsense. Congress refused to fund it so money didnt go anywhere.

    16. Re: The Art Of The Empty Gesture by kenh · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Oh, and finally, the program under which the Federal government provided loan guarantees to Solyndra actually made a profit for the US government.

      The 'program' was much greater than Solyndra.

      Solyndra 'cost' the program over a half-billion dollars, with which they built a factory in Silicon Valley with singing robots that made very fragile, very expensive, solar panels.

      Solyndra was predicted to fail by the Bush administration, then a well-placed campaign contributions later the new Obama administration rejected the prediction of their own experts that Solyndra would fail by a certain date and issued the half-billion in loan guarantees anyway. Solyndra went bankrupt almost exactly on schedule, less than a month before the obama administration's predictions.

      Not quite sure how the government 'profits' from loan guarantees - please explain how that works. The loans weren't issued by the government and the interest wasn't paid to the government.

      --
      Ken
    17. Re: The Art Of The Empty Gesture by kenh · · Score: 1

      You ignore the countries that said they would also backout of the Paris Accord unless they get the monies promised them.

      --
      Ken
    18. Re: The Art Of The Empty Gesture by kenh · · Score: 1

      the US military uses 1/4 million barrels of oil a day protecting "freedom"

      Citation please.

      World oil production is 96 million barrels/day

      --
      Ken
    19. Re:The Art Of The Empty Gesture by SlaveToTheGrind · · Score: 1

      Oh, and finally, the program under which the Federal government provided loan guarantees to Solyndra actually made a profit for the US government.

      Without the underlying numbers, "made a profit" is a meaningless statement. If you take a look at the Dept. of Energy's own rosy projections, you see that even they are not predicting the program will turn an actual (inflation-adjusted) profit.

      For a loan portfolio around $30 billion, they're predicting $5 billion in interest payments over the entire term of the program, with average loan terms around 25 years. That $5 billion apparently does not account for defaults (over half a billion already over the first several years of the program, with around 20 years to go even assuming they haven't issued new loans since this 2014 report), but let's be super-generous and say they ultimately net the entire $5 billion. That's an average annual return of about 1.25% on the program's capital at risk -- not even enough to keep pace with inflation.

      That's a disastrous return on invested capital that no investor in their right mind would consider (1) a success or (2) something worth even thinking about repeating.

      I think I can safely predict that even you wouldn't voluntarily put your retirement savings into a fund that couldn't even keep up with inflation over a 25-year period.

    20. Re:The Art Of The Empty Gesture by david_thornley · · Score: 1

      I think I can safely predict that even you wouldn't voluntarily put your retirement savings into a fund that couldn't even keep up with inflation over a 25-year period.

      The government's main mission is not to turn a profit. This looks like a relatively inexpensive way to push businesses into investing in solar panel production, which is overall good for the economy.

      --
      "When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
    21. Re: The Art Of The Empty Gesture by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      the US military uses 1/4 million barrels of oil a day protecting "freedom"

      Citation please.

      The US Department of Defense. Annual Energy Management Report, and the Operational Energy Strategy.

      World oil production is 96 million barrels/day

      So you could look that up, but won't look up the US Military's daily consumption?

      It's been reported for DECADES!

    22. Re: The Art Of The Empty Gesture by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      no no, you got it wrong. the TAXPAYER, doesn't profit.
      The government DEFINITELY profits.
      Just think of the revolving door of all the staffers who approved these loans... where do you think they go to work after they leave the government?

  4. federalism, can you haz it? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Insightful

    It's amazing that all it took for the left to rediscover the general principle of "government at the lowest level" was the election of Donald Trump, really.

    1. Re:federalism, can you haz it? by h33t+l4x0r · · Score: 1

      Sure, and the same goes for the right and the opposite principle.

    2. Re:federalism, can you haz it? by Boronx · · Score: 2

      If only a fraction of the country addresses global warming, the response won't be as effective. That can't be too hard to understand.

    3. Re:federalism, can you haz it? by shilly · · Score: 1

      Eh? The left is pleased that cities and states are doing this, but they'd be more pleased if cities, states and the federal government were doing this.

  5. yay by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    More political red meat that has nothing to do with technology

    1. Re: yay by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Well it is beauhd's shift...what did you expect

  6. Re:mm-hmm by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Yeah, we got a lot of good PR. Let's see if they back up their talk.

  7. Re:mm-hmm by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Lots of population but little power generation and no food production... good luck.

  8. The Donald by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Donald has yet to get a major piece of legislation passed even though his party has majorities in the House and Senate. He blames everything on Obama and Democrats but offers no solutions. The majority for his voters are poor and working class under educated whites who depend on government programs like Medicaid and SSD to survive.

    Trump pretends to care about these folks during his rallies but actively supports Congressional Republicanâ(TM)s attempts to gut these programs.

    Iâ(TM)ll be voting for Trump and Congressional Republicans from here on out. You can lead a horse to water but you canâ(TM)t make it drink.

    Let these uneducated âoegobermentâ hating retards keep voting against their own economic interests. Iâ(TM)m done defending them. From here on out my argument will be that Republicans should keep passing economic policies that fuck their poor, uneducated, white trash voters and focus on the real problem. Not redirecting the tax cuts that go along with them so they benefit middle class voters instead of the top 10%.

    The top 10% get plenty of carved out tax breaks given to them on the backs of poor and working class voters. Itâ(TM)s time to get middle class voters into the game!

    1. Re: The Donald by kenh · · Score: 1

      Not redirecting the tax cuts that go along with them so they benefit middle class voters instead of the top 10%.

      Define 'middle class', what is the income range for 'middle class'?

      When 47% of all tax filers pay no net federal income taxes, the vast majority of whom receive payments in excess of all monies previously paid in, how exactly do you target tax cuts at them?

      A person keeping more of their income isn't taking money from the government - they just aren't.

      --
      Ken
  9. The Steps by SuperKendall · · Score: 1, Informative

    First they read you.
    Then they make poor alterations to your name that indicates mentally they are seven, possibly eight years old.
    Then everyone laughs at them and realizes the original points were never even questioned with validity or by an adult mind.
    Then you win.

    --
    "There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
    1. Re:The Steps by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      ...Then you win.

      It is delusional to think you've won when people stop taking you seriously and think that the only appropriate response is the absurd or amusing. Sometimes it happens because of lack of ideas, but far more often it is because someone is seen as beyond reasonable hope of rational conversation.

    2. Re:The Steps by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That's why Hillary is the president....oh wait. Trump was called more childish names than possibly any other candidate ever by his opposition, yet he won.

  10. Re:mm-hmm by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    What? I'm from Seattle, and I've traveled all over the country, but the only place I've ever heard that white trash supremacist country music was in Seattle. Even when I was in Dallas, I never heard country "music."

  11. Re:mm-hmm by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Only butterflies skypes and googles would live in the inner cities by choice. Which one are you?

  12. Re:mm-hmm by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Momma must be proud of you, son!
    I'll just bet you were the smartest kid on the short bus.

    You have no idea what's going on, yet you bloviate.

  13. Re: mm-hmm by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I've traveled to 35 states, and the only places I've been racist enough to play country music were Seattle and Boston. Those two cities are racist as shit and wanted my kind to die.

  14. Re: mm-hmm by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Ted Kennedy ruled the Boston are for many years, and he was a racist piece of shit.

  15. The Wrong Number by SuperKendall · · Score: 2, Insightful

    The percentage (75%) does not mean much by itself until you figure out the breakdown of how many people are actually with you in any significant way.

    We know from the last election where both sides were portrayed as elemental roots of all evil, that only 59% of eligible voters even voted. That means there's something like 40% of the people in the cities who do not give a whit for the agendas of either side, and frankly think people like you are a loon.

    Then of the people who DID vote, only about half of those were for Hillary (a bit more, or a bit less depending on the area). Even more damning for your assertion though. is that just 88 percent of black voters went for Clinton, and around 64 percent of hispanic voters - both of those groups make up large elements of the bigger cities, so that further erodes the original 75%.

    In the end the people of the large cities are maybe with your ideas about 40-50% or so. What happens when you adopt policies that has locals actually feeling pain, in terms of jobs lost or a shattered economy? They will boot out people who share your ideals and pu in power people who present alternatives... and that is exactly how the Republican party came to enjoy such a widespread lead in local political positions across the country.

    --
    "There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
    1. Re:The Wrong Number by wyHunter · · Score: 2

      Indeed. The Rs portraying the Ds as elitist hypocrites was indeed true. Of course, the fact that the beltway Rs are also elitist hypocrites was unmentioned.

  16. Re: mm-hmm by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Just because his party put us in internment camps in WWII doesn't mean he is racist. He only hated us for being Japanese.

  17. On Effective Puffery by SuperKendall · · Score: 0

    So you agree, Donald Trump's denunciation of the treaty was pointless, just an act of grandstanding

    Well of course, that was obvious.

    as he boldly claims that he'll negotiate a better deal,

    That was not pointless, as he succeeded - we are already in a better deal, where states take on the cost of compliance and don't give nearly so much money to third-world slush funds. That is actually a pretty giant success on the part of Trump.

    Glad you realized this, because while it's not an impeachable offense,

    Ha! You silly statists are more into 'Peachment than the whole state of Georgia.

    Meanwhile Trump does what he pleases under your noses. From the outside it's rather hilarious to watch.

    Much like his faked Time Magazine covers.

    Come on, you never photoshopped yourself standing on the moon? Or anything else? The rest of us have which is why we think complaining about it makes you look like a stick-in-the-mud arse.

    --
    "There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
    1. Re:On Effective Puffery by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      To the contrary, Trump will be gladly contributing our tax dollars to dictators and tyrants the world over, didn't you notice his latest tantrum? Done for the sake of a kickback.

      If he wanted to win, he'd have submitted it to the Senate and let them reject it, or even just bury it, or sat on it, and just not put any money into it.

      Did none of his advisors tell him to play it smart? It is possible, I guess, they let him do his foolish "Muslim" ban. But I suppose if they had brains, they wouldn't be working for him.

      Except Pence. He plans on invoking the 25th when he's ready.

      But no, I'm not vain enough to have people Photoshop my image onto magazine covers and promote my business with them. Or dumbass enough to do it.

    2. Re:On Effective Puffery by angel'o'sphere · · Score: 0

      we are already in a better deal, where states take on the cost of compliance and don't give nearly so much money to third-world slush funds
      What is a third world slush fund? Considering that we don't have any third world anymore since decades ...

      --
      Cost free eBook I read (by iBook/Kobo/Amazon/ObookO/Gutenberg etc.): "The Green Odyssey" by Philip Jose Farmer.
    3. Re:On Effective Puffery by shilly · · Score: 3, Funny

      Come on, you never photoshopped yourself standing on the moon? Or anything else? The rest of us have which is why we think complaining about it makes you look like a stick-in-the-mud arse.

      1. I have never photoshopped myself standing on the moon, or anything similar, and neither has anyone I know.
      2. I have also never faked a Time magazine with myself on the cover and put it on the wall at work, and neither has anyone I know
      3. These two things are not the same. Work is different from home, for a start
      4. But, if anyone I knew had done either #1 or #2, they would be the subject of unending ridicule and in the case of #2, they'd be likely to be fired
      5. If you genuinely have done this. If you really honestly have faked a picture of yourself to big yourself up, and not for shits'n'giggles, then holy shit you live in a different world from me.

    4. Re: On Effective Puffery by kenh · · Score: 1

      2. I have also never faked a Time magazine with myself on the cover and put it on the wall at work, and neither has anyone I know

      If you google "put yourself on time magazine cover" (no quotes) you get dozens of websites that allow you to do just that, for any number of magazines... this isn't some fringe thing Trump invented.

      I don't care to research them, but suffice to say Trump has been covered/reported on in Time magazine, and I'm not sure if the articles cited on the fake Time cover are real, and if real were from the issue with the fake cover photo.

      Finally, it's odd and embarrassing that the photos/fake covers were on the wall at some of his golf clubs, but does it, in any meaningful way, matter?

      --
      Ken
    5. Re: On Effective Puffery by Kierthos · · Score: 1

      Let's not pretend for a minute that Trump did this himself. This was, without a doubt, some sycophantic underling either trying to curry favor with the boss, or trying to distract the petulant man-baby from something with a shiny new achievement. "Look, Mr. Trump, you're on the cover of Time Magazine again!"

      --
      Mr. Hu is not a ninja.
    6. Re: On Effective Puffery by tsqr · · Score: 1

      2. I have also never faked a Time magazine with myself on the cover and put it on the wall at work, and neither has anyone I know

      If you google "put yourself on time magazine cover" (no quotes) you get dozens of websites that allow you to do just that, for any number of magazines... this isn't some fringe thing Trump invented.

      I don't care to research them, but suffice to say Trump has been covered/reported on in Time magazine, and I'm not sure if the articles cited on the fake Time cover are real, and if real were from the issue with the fake cover photo.

      Finally, it's odd and embarrassing that the photos/fake covers were on the wall at some of his golf clubs, but does it, in any meaningful way, matter?

      I've been chuckling at the people who seem to think that vanity magazine covers never existed before the whole "Trump fake Time cover!!!" baloney. You can even get an app for your phone apps that will create these things.

    7. Re: On Effective Puffery by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'm chuckling that the shitgibbons and joe gerbils of the internet like yourself think that people made five copies of their vanity covers from the fairground and had them placed at the public places of five companies they worked at.

    8. Re:On Effective Puffery by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Haha,

      I love when faggots like yourself throw around claims like "neither has anyone I know." Did you run a poll of every single person you know to exist and come to the conclusion that "noone" has performed said action?

      TLDR: Morons being morons.

    9. Re: On Effective Puffery by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If you google "put yourself on time magazine cover" (no quotes) [lmgtfy.com] you get dozens of websites that allow you to do just that, for any number of magazines... this isn't some fringe thing Trump invented.

      So what you're saying is, it's easy, so easy, yet nobody else is reported to be hanging them in their businesses to promote themselves?

      I don't care to research them, but suffice to say Trump has been covered/reported on in Time magazine, and I'm not sure if the articles cited on the fake Time cover are real, and if real were from the issue with the fake cover photo.

      You should care, he's managed to lie about it. That's kinda why it hurts him. Not only did he make a FALSE boast, he FAKED covers.

      Finally, it's odd and embarrassing that the photos/fake covers were on the wall at some of his golf clubs, but does it, in any meaningful way, matter?

      Yes, and so does your breathless defense of it. Not only are you unable to admit to the nature of this behavior, you rush to defend or excuse it, as you handle every malfeasance Trump does.

      Really, you can't even stand up against this? That speaks volumes about yourself.

      Also, since you asked:

      Not quite sure how the government 'profits' from loan guarantees - please explain how that works. The loans weren't issued by the government and the interest wasn't paid to the government.

      Well, it turns out that they do get paid, much like a reinsurer gets paid. Read about the loan program. You do realize, by being so obviously uninformed, you are also saying something about YOUR character, right? They don't just hand over money, they set requirements, and costs, which are lower than commercial interests, but that's because it is an investment program meant to stimulate things that the commercial banks aren't doing, but it isn't a lottery, like you seem to think.

      Even Solyndra made a case, and again, you know what cost them? Chinese investments in their own solar factories, rendering our mediocre investments less effective. But still, we got a nice factory out of it, unlike say, the Bernie Madoff victims, who got hosed. They produced a product. Those robots worked. China? Dumped Solar Panels nonetheless. Oh well.

      Trump, BTW, has the same problem. Serious misjudgments of how people react to him, from his "Who knew Healthcare was so complicated" to "Firing Comey was entirely within my authority" to "The President can't have a conflict of interest" to "The President's intentions don't matter when it comes to banning Muslims!" and the like.

      You should really reflect on that.

    10. Re: On Effective Puffery by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      #1. Without a doubt? Really? Based upon what exactly?

      #2. Let's say you are correct and it's a toadying footsoldier. Why is the toadying behavior rewarded, encouraged, reinforced? That would be the ego-driven boss. Otherwise the Fake News (framed!) hanging on the wall would come down about 3 minutes after it was put up.

      The fact that it was allowed to stay tells you everything you need to know. Trump wants the toads, needs the toads, and feels validated by the toads.

      The fact that Trump approved Fake News hangs on the walls of Mar-a-Lago also speaks volumes concerning Trump hypocrisy about the media.

  18. 7,400 cities choosing to bankrupt themselves. by sethstorm · · Score: 0

    I'd rather live in a city that openly says it won't abide by such edicts. That way I know that they're not beholden to environmentalists, but to their constituents.

    --
    Twitter supports and protects racists - by smearing their critics with the "Hate Speech" label.
    1. Re:7,400 cities choosing to bankrupt themselves. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yet green tech is where all the new jobs and growth is.

      "beholden to environmentalists" you can't even name the environmentalist you're beholden to! Who is this magic power broker controlling these mayors?

      It's just you attempting to personify your biases into an enemy to hate. But really, a sustainable energy source and low carbon impact coupled to more jobs and more growth, is not a 'person' to hate.

    2. Re:7,400 cities choosing to bankrupt themselves. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Don't worry, they are choosy about which commitments to meet. Not the financial ones (ie. sending money to other countries)!! The environmental commitments are easier and more or less on their way regardless of any treaty.

      Maybe Trump will "renegotiate" that treaty so that we don't pay.

    3. Re: 7,400 cities choosing to bankrupt themselves. by kenh · · Score: 1

      Yet green tech is where all the new jobs and growth is.

      Remember when bus driver was considered a 'green job'?

      Green jobs are interesting - we pay people to train for green jobs, we provide tax incentives to hire these trainees, we subsidise the research into green technologies, we subsidize green factories, we sudsidze the purchase of green technology, and we force utility companies to pay excessively high rates for anything that spills out of the subsidized solar panels and onto the grid.

      Yeah, that's the free market driving demand for green technology.

      --
      Ken
    4. Re: 7,400 cities choosing to bankrupt themselves. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Green tech has major subsidies still. If those were to fall off, then it goes away. I'm not against the subsidies or the purpose, but be real about the prospects of a company selling lots of product with razor thin margins. The workers in those businesses are really in a sensitive spot. Tesla can't be valued over traditional car companies with a fraction of the sales and expect subsidies to last forever. At some point this will come to a head and the electric car and solar people will get a reality check. Windmills should be fine.

  19. State Violation by SuperKendall · · Score: 1

    Err #4356 : State Machine is already in "SKWin" state, attempt to move to "AdolestantUIDRename" state is an invalid transition.

    --
    "There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
    1. Re:State Violation by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Sure SewerCandle, you're really stroking that tiny penis of yours, aren't you? Try some Coconut butter, it's what Trump uses on his head.

  20. Re:mm-hmm by bongey · · Score: 1, Interesting

    Only about 14% of the military identifies as Democrats. Democrats you don't want another civil war, you would lose again.

  21. Show me the money! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    If they REALLY wanted to show Trump was wrong they would send 10-20% of their city budget to a random wealthy political organization outside of the U. S. as their part of the Accord's wealth redistribution plan which was the reason Trump rejected it. The Paris Accords were a hoax in that it did nothing noticeable to affect future climate and was only a way for connected individuals to get richer taking their cut of its wealth redistribution.

    But even taking what they say they'll do I already know how it will turn out. Like all liberal proclamations they feel good saying they'll do something, but they never come through and it is forgotten except with the memory that they were morally superior for just saying they'd do something. With liberals this happens EVERY TIME one of these bandwagon feel good mini-movements get started.

  22. Re: mm-hmm by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

    That was FDR and Ted's father that took that racist action.

  23. Enjoy being hungry and isolated. by sethstorm · · Score: 2

    The very rural population that you despise is the same rural population that feeds you and transports your goods.

    If anything can be said about them, they surround and outmatch you.

    --
    Twitter supports and protects racists - by smearing their critics with the "Hate Speech" label.
    1. Re: Enjoy being hungry and isolated. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      If 3/4 of the population is urban and 1/4 is rural, how does the rural area outmatch the urban?

      Are you suggesting the rural areas are so immoral they would straight up murder three people each on average to get their way if they could? That's a pretty fucked up picture of rural America you paint. If you are so bitter you think rural people would do that, at least only one in three city folk would have to kill someone. One in nine if city slickers were as murderous as you seem to think rural folk are.

      This isn't some shit hole country like Russia. We have enough to go around. We throw out half the food we make and are still obese. Most of us run the AC all summer and the heat all winter because for all our complaints, our appliances are so efficient and energy is just so cheap we can pretty much afford it if we work an extra half day per month. An hour extra if we're not poor wage slaves.

      Sure there are some nuts on either side, but push come to shove, we don't turn on each other like Russian rats. We drive to New Orleans and bring water. We send construction materials from urban ports to rebuild tornado alley victims. So please keep poking the sleeping giant ya still.

      Because, 'murica! Fuck yeah!

  24. Re: mm-hmm by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    After he decided to drown his girlfriend, thinking people gave up on his kind.

  25. Cities are all broke, what nonsense by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    None of these cities will contribute a dime to the Paris Accord "slush fund" which is one of the main reasons Trump pulled out of it. Of course any city can voluntarily reduce their carbon footprint, and so you can you.

    No person needs a government to slim their climate footprint. You can do it on your own just follow this guide: http://co2doom.com/blog/2016/12/22/infographic-a-guide-for-climate-alarmists

    The irony is that all those people screaming for carbon regulations are flying around in private jets, gas guzzling SUV's, super yachts, and mega mansions not raising the slightest effort to lower their carbon footprint. Why do you think that is?

  26. Re: mm-hmm by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Ted had the luck of a drunk.

  27. Re:Your kids won't get jobs by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

    When your two kids turn 18 and are trying to get jobs, there is also one immigrant competing for those same jobs.

    The other side of this is without immigration the US population would be shrinking. If we stopped immigration completely, then "Who will your two kids be working for when there is 10-20% fewer consumers than now?" Our economy is still heavily dependent on the idea of forever growing demand.

  28. They're rejecting Donald Trump by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    It's an interesting spin, but really the main point is they're simply rejecting Trump's leadership.

    Call it 'Federalism' if you like, and try to left-right'ify, but there aren't many Republicans who still support Trump at this point.

    Look a the Dow Chemicals things, we have a known cause of Autism, chlorpyrifos, it's banned for home use, it's banned in many countries, its been studied and causes brain defects in children, and damage to adults and it's detected over the safe limit in US food.

    Dow CEO pays Trump $1.2 million, and Scott Pruit then cancels a ban on the chemical. If consumers then refuse to eat that tainted food that's killing their kids brains, are they doing "Federalism", or are they simply rejecting the squatter in the Whitehouse they didn't elect?

    1. Re:They're rejecting Donald Trump by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      there aren't many Republicans who still support Trump at this point.

      There never really were. His nomination wasn't much more legitimate than Hillary's.

  29. Re:mm-hmm by Captain+Splendid · · Score: 2

    I find it interesting you think so little of your own military that you think most, if not all service members would put their party affiliation before their oaths to their country.

    --
    Linux, you magnificent bastard, I read the fucking manual!
  30. Re:Your kids won't get jobs by geek111 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I have heard this argument so many times, but it is flawed. You are looking at jobs as if they are static fixed things like physical goods. That is simply not the case. Many immigrants move to a new country and START a business. Are they stealing your children's jobs too?

    What happens to your 'they are stealing the jobs' argument in the next 50 years as the Earth's median population gets older and older? In 1950 the average age of a human being on earth was under 30. Right now the average age worldwide is around 33 years old. In the USA it is 38 years and that 5 year difference represents a vast population of aging baby-boomers born after WWII that require ever increasing care. (Well at least for the next 25 or 30 years) Demographically at some point you are going to have to choose whether you want your parents to be taken care of by immigrants or robots. There simply won't be enough working age 'americans' to do the work. In case you think I'm lying or making things up, just visit any assisted living facility anywhere in the US. It's already happening. There is and always will be a place in America for immigrants. If there were no jobs here for them they would not come here legally or otherwise. My grandparents came here from eastern europe fleeing tyrany, war and starvation in the early 20th century. Who am I to turn down someone coming here today for the exact same reason?! What kind of hypocrite would I be?

    This kind of Nationalist, Populist, B.S. will be the death of us all. I for one want the Star Trek future promised to me by Gene Roddenberry and Bill Hicks. The one where we quit being greedy selfish beasts and become civilized. After all, it's just a ride

  31. Re:mm-hmm by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    14%? That's like having a 5th column in the military... Trump should reinstate firing squads just in case this goes too far.

  32. C. Norway. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Dear President Obama:

    I don't agree with many things you have one - but all in all, thtink you have been one of the BEST presidents in newer histtory AND THANK TOU FOR DOING YOUR PART IN SAVING OUR WORLD!

    From the bottom of my pale, white heart to the colorful and experienced heart yours: THANK YOU! You're quickly becoming another one of my african-american heroes! KEEP UP THE GOOD WORLD (just stop spying on everyone).
    If only your nation could security it's servers for shit and stop nuking the planets (try Thorium reactors?)

    Love you man, U hope you educate more young folks to follow your footsteps, amen!

  33. Obama's deep state coup rises again. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    This is exactly the kind of bullshit that we voted to CHANGE. Once we see the conspiracy here for what it is: yet another attempt to launch a coup against our duly elected president in chief Donald Trump and his decisions made as our leader. Please, for all that holy in our united states of america, to support the constitution, to support our right to bear arms and practise our religon freely, donate today to the Trump 2020 campaign and the NRA. It is only through your generous support that we can fight this insidius threat to our very way of life.

    1. Re:Obama's deep state coup rises again. by shilly · · Score: 1

      The new reality: where it's impossible to tell if what you've written was serious or satire.

  34. Re: mm-hmm by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The Trump administration IS one big firing squad. They are all just getting their circular aim down now with their lawyer's advice.

  35. Close, but not exactly by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

    States, cities, and the people themselves are indeed supposed to take on anything they choose to that is not specifically allocated to the federal government by the Constitution. International relations (including war,diplomacy,international treaties and agreements, etc) are however among the things specifically allocated to the feds.

    If some state, or county, or city wants to enforce some super-strict environmental policies of their own, that's perfectly fine - as long as they do not interfere in interstate commerce as they do it and as long as they do not do it in a manner that runs afoul of the Constitutional rights of their citizens. Signing on to some international agreement is a different critter and is a violation of the Constitution.

    The people doing this present save-the-planet crap are NOT principled people; they are nearly all doing it out of spite over the loss of the 2016 election and I doubt a single one of them supports the 10th Amendment on ANY other subject. I doubt ANY of them are for the feds no longer funding planned parenthood, or social security, or Obamacare, or foodstamps, or the feds keeping out of all the sex-and-gender politics, or dropping all federal regulations of what people do on their own land, or letting states decide on their own education funding or their own transportation funding and policies, etc. Nope. I'd bet none of these jerks support ANY degree of the 10th amendment at all; they're just pretending this is a sorta 10th amendment "thingy".

    Again, if they do thiis as a stand-alone thing they're probably hypocritical but legally fine (though on the modern leftist-judge idea that what you SAY can be used to block your perfectly legal actions, perhaps not) but if they sign international agreements they coulf be in trouble.

    1. Re:Close, but not exactly by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Unfortunately, inter-state commerce clause says otherwise, as currently interpreted by SCOTUS.

    2. Re:Close, but not exactly by david_thornley · · Score: 1

      The people doing this present save-the-planet crap are NOT principled people; they are nearly all doing it out of spite over the loss of the 2016 election

      In general, they're doing it because they're in favor of lowering CO2 emissions, and after Trump won it will have to be done at the local level.

      I doubt ANY of them are for the feds no longer funding planned parenthood, or social security, or Obamacare, or foodstamps

      Those are appropriations that are explicitly allowed in the Constitution, and it's reasonable for people to support such spending. They're not automatically wrong because you disagree.

      --
      "When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
    3. Re:Close, but not exactly by david_thornley · · Score: 1

      The interstate commerce clause has, in my opinion, been overstretched since the 1940s. It's beyond "currently".

      --
      "When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
  36. Trump, the radical environmentalist? by grasshoppa · · Score: 1

    I've noticed for years that when a very public figure head makes a controversial stance against something, it only serves to popularize the opposition. A variation of the Streisand Effect, or an more ur-version of it at any rate. I wonder how aware politicians have been of this, and have used this to push their own agenda?

    Obama and guns for instance; guns and ammo sales skyrocketed in 2008 and 2012, so much so that there were severe ammo shortages. Obama never made any real moves to limit 2nd amendment rights. Crazy as it sounds, I can't discount the possibility that Obama secretly holds pro-2nd views.

    Same with Trump. Regardless of your opinions of the man, he has demonstrated mastery of public manipulation. Could his intent have been to encourage environmentalism? It's borderline conspiracy theory craziness, I'll grant you, but I can't discount that as a possibility.

    --
    Mod me down with all of your hatred and your journey towards the dark side will be complete!
    1. Re:Trump, the radical environmentalist? by Rockoon · · Score: 1, Insightful

      It was Bill Clinton, A FUCKING DEMOCRAT that federally deregulated the banks and federally instituted the racist 3-strikes law.

      We were told that this sort of stuff would have been a Republican wet dream. THE DEMOCRATS DID IT

      --
      "His name was James Damore."
    2. Re:Trump, the radical environmentalist? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Liberals still haven't figured out that Trump is way smarter than they are. He's smarter because he KNOWS HUMAN NATURE. He knows how to win friends and influence people.

      He can, with a single tweet, ramp up his base into a fervor of American Specialsm (TM), and send his opposition into low Earth orbit, even more determined to do on their own what they've been begging government to do for them for decades (and that government has failed to do).

      It's abso-fucking-lutely brilliant what he has done. He pulls everyone's puppet strings and they don't even know it.

    3. Re:Trump, the radical environmentalist? by hawkfish · · Score: 1

      It was Bill Clinton, A FUCKING DEMOCRAT that federally deregulated the banks and federally instituted the racist 3-strikes law.

      We were told that this sort of stuff would have been a Republican wet dream. THE DEMOCRATS DID IT

      And the Dems wonder why they can't win elections.

      --
      You will not drink with us, but you would taste our steel? - Walter Matthau, The Pirates
    4. Re:Trump, the radical environmentalist? by T.E.D. · · Score: 1

      It was Bill Clinton, A FUCKING DEMOCRAT that federally deregulated the banks and federally instituted the racist 3-strikes law.

      Presidents don't pass legislation, Congress does. They can veto legislation, but only if Congress can't sweeten it enough to get a 2/3 majority.

      The Congress during all but the first 2 years of Clinton's term was heavily Republican, and run by Newt Gingrich. Bill was in a position where he could dedicate his remaining 6 years in office to being a speedbump, or work with them to blunt the hard edges off of the right-wing crap that the people of the USA elected that congress to pass.

      Now you could argue that he should have totally gone speed-bump. However, he ran as a centrist, not as someone determined to stand up and fight for True Liberal Values. If the Democratic party wanted a guy to do that, they could have elected Jerry Brown (or Jesse Jackson like I did). They didn't. If Clinton had suddenly decided to be the line-in-the-sand Liberal guy, he would have been betraying his voters.

      That of course was a bygone era. Today nobody on either side trusts our elections to be fair or representative of the Will of the People. Everyone other than My Guy(tm) clearly cheated somehow, and his voters don't count. So every individual politician is expected to go stand in front of the tanks with their arms out on every issue. We're frankly lucky we can still get Post Offices named.

      But its not really reasonable to blame Clinton for every suboptimal thing the US Government did during those 8 years. Go find someone who voted for him in the primary, or for a Republican congressman, and yell at them.

    5. Re:Trump, the radical environmentalist? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It was Bill Clinton, A FUCKING DEMOCRAT that federally deregulated the banks and federally instituted the racist 3-strikes law.

      We were told that this sort of stuff would have been a Republican wet dream. THE DEMOCRATS DID IT

      And the Dems wonder why they can't win elections.

      Because Rockoon is such a demented liar that he states easily disproven falsehoods?

      Yeah, the Gramm-Leach-Bliley act was totally named after 3 Democratic Congressmen. Wait. Sen. Phil Gramm (R, Texas), Rep. Jim Leach (R, Iowa), and Rep. Thomas J. Bliley, Jr. (R, Virginia). Hmm. Of course, we could just forget the Bush administration, because obviously they weren't capable of doing anything, so it's unfair to hold them responsible for running the country.

      As for three strikes, the flaws of it were pointed out in 1995. Republicans? They've had 22 years. They've done what now?

      At least Clinton has the grace to admit his mistakes. The new Sheriff is committed to ignoring that.

      If you want to say that Democrats don't win elections because America is infected with such a fanatical zealotry of lying GOP stalwarts that substitute their own reality, I guess that's an idea. Anything else? You're just being as much a liar as Rockoon.

      The real story with elections, of course, is that the game is rigged.

    6. Re:Trump, the radical environmentalist? by grasshoppa · · Score: 1

      So did congress do it? Override his veto, I mean?

      --
      Mod me down with all of your hatred and your journey towards the dark side will be complete!
    7. Re:Trump, the radical environmentalist? by T.E.D. · · Score: 1

      So did congress do it? Override his veto, I mean?

      No. As I said, Clinton's approach was to try to work with Congress to blunt the evil effects of what they were doing. So rather than having a modern style single-topic bill with an all-or-nothing veto fight, what they did was put a lot of stuff in there that liberals and moderates liked too.

      Take the 1994 "Crime Bill". Yes, that gave us the evil Federal three-strikes legislation. However, it also included an assault weapons ban. Obama not only couldn't get something like that through his Congress, he didn't even try. There are 28 parents in Sandy Hook who would today be thinking about where to take their kids now that they just graduated 6th grade, rather than picking out new flowers for their graves, if we'd still had that legislation during his term.

      Not that I'm blaming Obama here. He would have loved to strike deals like this with Congress. However, compromise generally requires give on both sides, and today's Republicans win their primaries by promising not to give an inch.

  37. Re:Your kids won't get jobs by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    When your two kids turn 18 and are trying to get jobs, there is also one immigrant competing for those same jobs.

    The other side of this is without immigration the US population would be shrinking.

    Why? With better job opportunities, more couples could decide to have families. So the population could grow without immigration crowding out natural born citizens.

  38. Re:mm-hmm by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    You don't get it. It isn't their party affiliation that they would fight for. It is knowing that the Democrats are against what this country actually stands for. The Democrats want to support everything that is trying to bring this country down. In a civil war, the majority of the military will stand for the country, not for traitorous "leaders".

  39. What about heavy industry? by jonwil · · Score: 2

    What percentage of the heavy industry in the US is under the jurisdiction of state and local governments that have signed up to these carbon reduction plans?

    1. Re:What about heavy industry? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Well, they don't get a vote on what the generation industry does nor what government policy gets implemented. The stakeholders who do get a vote want a carbon price to be implemented.

      The carbon consensus

      Hours of debate found little common ground on ZECs, but there was much more consensus on what should come next. On the first day of the conference, New York ISO CEO Brad Jones said his intention was to use the ZECs as a “bridge to the future,” eventually replacing them with carbon prices in the wholesale market.

      Exelon has long supported carbon pricing, even arguing for it as an implementation strategy for the Clean Power Plan. But the independent generators at the conference also endorsed the concept.

      "We need to ask markets to do the right thing,” said Abraham Silverman, counsel at NRG Energy. “There’s nothing magical about the existing structure. It’s an accident of history.”

      Silverman stressed that only FERC can ensure just and reasonable rates in the face of state carbon goals. One option would be to move to “security-constrained economic carbon dispatch,” with a capacity market that features competitive tranches for various resources, he said. Invenergy's Polsky, meanwhile, stressed that any award of new state subsidies should be on a competitive basis.

      While the generators largely gave support for a carbon pricing proposal, the consensus stopped at Maine PUC Chairman Mark Vannoy. He said his state would support pricing other attributes (such as reliability) in the wholesale market, but not carbon, as it is too expensive.

      Vannoy was challenged by Pennsylvania PUC Vice Chair Andrew Place, who pointed out that revenues from a carbon price can be returned to states and ratepayers, so “it’s not a net loss.”

      But while popular, carbon pricing is unlikely to be a panacea, Silverman warned. With RPS policies and subsidies, states aim for new jobs and technological development in addition to carbon reductions, so a carbon price may not serve all their needs.

      “We don’t necessarily think putting a price on carbon directly is actually the best way to incent renewables,” he said. “We think long-term [bilateral contracts] have been successful getting new renewables built — something we do all day and night.”

      Consultants, academics voice support

      That same qualified support for carbon pricing was apparent during FERC’s subsequent panel of power sector academics, analysts and consultants. While the group of industry veterans held diverse opinions on the correct structure of wholesale markets, all agreed that FERC and the states should find a way to integrate important attributes like carbon intensity into market prices.

    2. Re:What about heavy industry? by wyHunter · · Score: 1

      Probably none, because I doubt Pennsylvania,Michigan, and Texas have signed on.

  40. Re:Your kids won't get jobs by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    They're stealing our jerbs!

  41. Sending a signal by ishmaelflood · · Score: 0

    "the mayor of Atlanta, told reporters he had travelled to Europe "

    Well, I hope he rowed over in a boat otherwise he was burning fossil fuels.

    If these 7400 bunches of idiots would like to check out what is happening in South Australia with a 50% renewable target, they might have a bit of a rethink. if not I'm sure their constituents will help them to revise their opinions.

    1. Re:Sending a signal by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Living in SA I can tell, we are very happy with our renewable targets, and one power cut, due to a wind storm taking out hv transmission towers hasnt changed that, in fact we are justifiably proud of it. Only a few RWNJ believe otherwise, a tiny minority who try to spread the flat out lie renewables played a part.
      So take your bullshit and fuck off.
      Dave

    2. Re:Sending a signal by ishmaelflood · · Score: 1

      Wow, strong language from an AC. Bet you don't talk like that in real life. Well, no, probably you do, to women and children. While I enjoy winding up losers from the mendicant state, i'd point out that both of my houses are more than self sufficient for electricity. So, take your foul little tongue and stick it back up a politician's arsehole.

      Here's the forecast for electricity shortages for the next year in South Australia. Click on the SA button. The red bits are 'reserve shortfalls', or as we might say, times when whole areas will have their supply cut. Enjoy, foul mouthed loser.

      https://www.aemo.com.au/Electr...

    3. Re:Sending a signal by Zontar+The+Mindless · · Score: 1

      Wow, strong language from an AC. Bet you don't talk like that in real life. Well, no, probably you do, to women and children...

      If you knew the first thing about Australia and Aussies, you'd know that Dave was speaking to you as one typically does to children there.

      --
      Il n'y a pas de Planet B.
  42. Re: Your kids won't get jobs by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    The only things ever demonstrated to raise family size are withdrawing birth control access and poverty.

    With Trump in charge you're well on the way to achieving both.

  43. Re:mm-hmm by DogDude · · Score: 1

    Comrade, excellent post! You do great service to Mother Russia! !

    --
    I don't respond to AC's.
  44. Venusian Politics by mrthoughtful · · Score: 2

    So, what I don't get is the political angle on this. I don't think there are very many people who deny that the climate is changing any more. Sure, there's a question of whether or not it's being substantially caused by human activity. Sure, I (along with 98% scientists) believe that there is a correlation. But regardless of human activity, are there really people out there who deny the correlation between CO2 and CC, regardless of human involvement?

    Maybe they should go and spend some time on Venus.

    --
    This comment was written with the intention to opt out of advertising.
    1. Re:Venusian Politics by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      It's a bit more nuanced than that.
      98% of scientists isn't quite accurate. It's 98% of Publishing (in the last 2 years) Climatologists (the ones who's study is global warming) agree. There's a huge swath of the scientific community that doesn't agree (ecologists for example) that aren't includes in that statistic.
      The correlation is very fuzzy. There's multiple climate cycles. Some are long, some are short. The whole hoopla is deciding whether or not .02% of the atmosphere in CO2 amounts from pre-industrial levels to .04% of the atmosphere actually has noticeable and quantitative effects on the mean temperate. As many "deniers" point out, the percentage of change is so low that it's probably noise when compared to the short and long cycles that no model has accurately predicted what that effect has.
      Compared to venus that has 96.5% of it's atmosphere being CO2, if we removed .02%, how much would it cool by? Honestly it's practically impossible to answer accurately.

    2. Re:Venusian Politics by david_thornley · · Score: 1

      In other words, 98% of the scientists that study the subject in detail and publish agree. I don't care what ecologists think about climate science, just as I don't care what chemists think about computer science.

      Going from 280ppm to 400ppm is a big increase. We've known since the Nineteenth Century that CO2 is a greenhouse gas, and that increasing it will, other things being equal, raise the temperature. The percentage of change is over 40%, which is pretty significant.

      The models are reasonably accurate, overall.

      --
      "When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
    3. Re:Venusian Politics by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "I don't think there are very many people who deny that the climate is changing any more."

      Sweet jesus, where do you get that from? /.? Any of hundreds of websites, blogs, forums?

      Denial of climate change is essential to much of the political platform of the Right, and it has been for years. If you haven't noticed that then you simply aren't paying attention.

      One example and one example only, from our dear Orange Leader. "The concept of global warming was created by and for the Chinese in order to make U.S. manufacturing non-competitive." That was a Tweet on Nov. 6, 2012, 12:15 PM.

      There are endless other examples, you can look those up for yourself. And yes, recent ones, as recent as you care to name.

  45. Re:mm-hmm by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    And you just keep making the point more obvious.

  46. Re: mm-hmm by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    When liberals do it it's not racism.

  47. Re: Your kids won't get jobs by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The star trek future is not possible. It was a stupid TV show and Roddenberry was a mediocre hack who knew how to cater to the gullible.

  48. Re:mm-hmm by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Yeah, Trump and his white, male, rural, Christian, working-class supporters will not divide us! /whytrumpwon

  49. Re: mm-hmm by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Don't tell them about LBJ or the DNC convention & KKK rally.

    That's when the Democrats adopted the southern strategy to buy support and call everyone else racists, by pretending that Sen. Byrd and co. left the party.

  50. Re: mm-hmm by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Country music is only popular on the northeast and Pacific Northwest.

  51. Re:mm-hmm by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    #FakeChristians is more like it.

  52. Genocide by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Yes, genocide, that'w how we view the constant progrressive attacks on our culture. And yes, people will react violently to genocide.

  53. Re:Your kids won't get jobs by Zontar+The+Mindless · · Score: 1

    This was information largely hidden by the Obama administration, and Trump made it public.

    Anyone who "hid" that information was only hiding it from themselves.

    --
    Il n'y a pas de Planet B.
  54. Re:Your kids won't get jobs by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    > This was information largely hidden by the Obama administration, and Trump made it public.

    Uh-huh. https://www.dhs.gov/immigration-statistics/yearbook

    Don't beleive everything you read my friend.

  55. Meaningless non-commitments by misnohmer · · Score: 2

    "Reed, whose administration has promised that the city of Atlanta will use 100% renewable energy by 2035"
    What is that commitment here is nothing, other than the administration who committed to it will long gone by then and will be liable for nothing. In 2035 you can ask, hey, why isn't Atlanta 100% on renewables, and the answer will be "what are you talking about, we didn't commit to anything, go talk to the retired politicians who made you this promise".

    Commitments backed by nothing are meaningless publicity stunts. It's like taking an unsecured loan with zero payments until well after your death. In this case what they are borrowing is popular votes.

    1. Re:Meaningless non-commitments by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Note, also, that they don't define what is meant by "the city of Atlanta". They probably just mean "the city government of Atlanta", which of course is just a tiny subset. I doubt they mean all businesses, and they sure as heck-fire don't mean all residences. A pretty empty gesture.

    2. Re:Meaningless non-commitments by Rockoon · · Score: 2

      Commitments backed by nothing are meaningless publicity stunts.

      Quite often commitments are backed by "nothing" is the sense that nobody today has any skin in the game, but that future people are on the hook.

      For instance, see the funding of the local public union pensions. Notice the complete lack of funding? ..even for contractual promises signed 40 years ago? Yeah.

      --
      "His name was James Damore."
    3. Re:Meaningless non-commitments by david_thornley · · Score: 1

      For instance, see the funding of the local public union pensions. Notice the complete lack of funding?

      Not the ones I personally have interacted with. They have a good deal of funding.

      --
      "When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
  56. More 'climate change' bullshit by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Insightful

    Typical of 'Climatedot' - every single day they have at least one 'climate change - the sky is falling in' bullshit article, spreading the myth of 'catastrophic man-made global warming' and the 'evils of CO2'.

    This is the kind of insanity this leads to:

    https://wattsupwiththat.com/2017/06/28/study-another-example-of-how-california-bollixes-carbon-regulation-through-biofuels/

    Growing corn to use as FUEL instead of as food, when we have more than enough oil and coal to last for hundreds of years.

    We even have the insane situation where trees from RAINFORESTS are being cut down and shipped to the U.K. to be BURNED in power stations as supposedly 'green fuel', and 'carbon friendly', absolute insanity.

  57. Re:Your kids won't get jobs by rikkards · · Score: 1

    Probably by then a lot of those jobs will be starting to be handed over to machines and automated.

  58. Re:mm-hmm by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Ahh, see, we didn't swear an oath to the country or government. We swore an oath to the constitution. The difference is significant, and it's telling that Democrats seem unwilling to defend the constitution or country.

  59. Re: Your kids won't get jobs by PoopJuggler · · Score: 1

    Why do you think you're entitled to a job just because you were born here?

  60. Wrong Numbers by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Ok 74000 cities.
    But 740 cities sitting on a mountain of Coal Gas, and Coal Seam and Shaile and Oil Sands, and oil pumping water into earthquake fault lines - plus a lot of petro-economies will UNDO the statements of the 74000 cities that drive around on imported oil.

    I'm sure Fukishima is all behind clean energy. And Penn behind clean coal.

    The New York. We are all clean now. But don't count all the steel, cement and glass brick pollution used to make the materials we import. Yup pollution imputation nees to be measured too- before that paper trumpet blows.

    1. Re: Wrong Numbers by kenh · · Score: 1

      Mayors of 7,400 Cities Vow To Meet Obama's Climate Commitments
      Anonymous Coward 9 hours ago 127
      An anonymous reader quotes a report from The Guardian: Mayors of more than 7,400 cities across the world have vowed that Donald Trump's decision to withdraw from the Paris accord will spur greater local efforts to combat climate change.

      How many of those world mayors live in countries that signed on to the Paris Accord and are already committed at some level?

      How many of this world cities are adopting stricter US emission targets and plan on paying third-world countries to reduce emissions 'in the future', as opposed to the lower standards their national leaders agreed to?

      How many of those mayors have the ability to influence energy generation in their cities and towns?

      Aside from holding a press conference and enjoying some positive publicity, what does this mean?

      --
      Ken
  61. What? 7400 different regulations? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Should the law for people be different in each city too? After all, that was just as equally "what is supposed to happen". Can one city just ban all firearms? Or is that not supposed to happen because their rights SHOULD be quashed?

    No, your claim is bollocks.

    1. Re: What? 7400 different regulations? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      A city can enforce any law within the power granted by its state constitution and county charter. And likewise, the state can do anything not specifically allocated to the federal government. If a state or municipality can and wants to enforce laws more strict than federal, they can do so. Now the loss of business due to harsher laws is the risk they run.

    2. Re:What? 7400 different regulations? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yes, each state is meant to create and enforce its laws. No, a city cannot ban all firearms, as the Constitution protects the right and the 14th amendment is quite clear on a state cannot override the Constitution (though many states are). The only thing bollocks here is your thought process and understanding of the US Constitution and legal system.

  62. Re:19,354 cities in the US,yep by Rockoon · · Score: 0

    You heard it here first folks.

    Its far-right to want the president limited by a constitution.

    This is why the liberal progressive David Rubin has come to understand that "its become a conservative position to defend my liberal values," somehow hes just not liberal enough for the democrats any more.

    First the Democrats divided the country. Then they divided their party. Oops.

    --
    "His name was James Damore."
  63. Re: Your kids won't get jobs by Serge_Tomiko · · Score: 1

    First of all, birth control has never been withdrawn so it is impossible to test for this. Secondly, only in a few instances do we have reliable data on poverty and they all involve seriously war torn places like Germany or Japan in the 1950s. In both of those instances, birth rates returned to normal once their respective economies began to grow.

    What does affect aggregate family formation is perception of scarcity. This is why recent immigrants from hellholes are quite fecund in the US while natives have a declining birthrate. For someone from Africa, the US is orders of magnitude more prosperous and having 5 children in a modest apartment is vastly superior to a thatch hut. For a native born American, the cost of housing, the necessity of women working, etc., have all made family formation much more expensive than just a generation ago.

    In any event, it's ridiculous to claim Trump will either end access to birth control or increase poverty substantially. Real poverty doesn't exist in the US, and the long-term trend is for decreasing poverty. It has been a long time since poverty increased under any president.

    Could it happen? Sure. I am more concerned with the continued lowering of living standards for the middle class. This was of course the primary reason Trump was elected, and if he fails (a real possibility), then the pressure will be back on the Democratic Party. And there, we will see a huge schism as the party is filled with Puritans looking for witch hunts or nutjobs who think anyone really gives a shit about birth control.

  64. Aaaahhh the costs... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Just look average energy price that consumers pay... in europe and think twice before going "green"

    22(euro)cents per kwh

  65. Around the world? by kenh · · Score: 1

    Mayors of 7,400 Cities Vow To Meet Obama's Climate Commitments
    Anonymous Coward 9 hours ago 127
    An anonymous reader quotes a report from The Guardian: Mayors of more than 7,400 cities across the world have vowed that Donald Trump's decision to withdraw from the Paris accord will spur greater local efforts to combat climate change.

    So all these mayors from around the world Have committed to comply with The Paris Accord? Big whoop! Their national leaders already committed - are they planing to meet to US goals and honor the US obligations with regard to funding 3rd-world developing nations as they continue to increase their levels of greenhouse gasses for years?

    --
    Ken
    1. Re:Around the world? by bobbied · · Score: 1

      Cough up the cash if their country chooses not to? I'm guessing the answer is nope. They just are going to uphold THEIR individual commitment to the Paris Accords, which is pretty much "nothing" at all.... They are not a party to the agreement, didn't have any commitments prescribed in the agreement and have no control over if the country they are in or out of the agreement.

      Which really illustrates the whole farce that this is... The Paris Accords didn't really do anything significant on emissions reductions anyway so it didn't help, unless you consider the massive wealth transfer it prescribed as something that was going to help...So now 7,400 cities are joining into the farce.... Wow, how nice..

      Are we going to actually do something here or keep doing this lip service thing, patting out own backs about ho much we care to make ourselves feel better?

      --
      "File to fit, pound to insert, paint to match" - Aircraft Maintenance 101
  66. Re:mm-hmm by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    You know, you're the problem. You do nothing but spew hate and try to piss off anybody who thinks different than you. You're purposely as inflammatory as possible. Surely you have to know that the world would be a better place if you didn't exist. And what's real bad is it wouldn't take much to change that. You could choose to just quit being an asshole and work to bring people together, realize that most people have far more in common than not, but no. You choose to ridicule and insult anyone different than you. Why? Why do you feel the need to insult anybody who isn't a carbon copy of you? How do you feel that this will make anything better? I'm honestly curious. Because every post you make spews vitriol and hate.

  67. Re: Your kids won't get jobs by kenh · · Score: 0

    Why do you think you're entitled to a job just because you crossed the border illegally to get here?

    FTFY

    --
    Ken
  68. Re: Your kids won't get jobs by kenh · · Score: 2

    Watch how quickly 'illegal immigrant' morphs into 'immigrant' in this 'discussion', as if the two were interchangeable.

    Every year the United States invites and hosts over one million legal immigrants, be they temporary H-1B visa workers, student visa holders, economic refugees,political refugees, etc. No one has any real issue with those immigrants, it's the ones that illegally cross the border, work off the books or engage in identity theft to secure work, and put increased burdens on our social, medical, and community services far in excess of any contribution to they make to the local tax base.

    --
    Ken
  69. Re: mm-hmm by kenh · · Score: 1

    When the country is republican majority not only at the federal level, but also at the state level - the GOP controls not only the house, senate, and Oval Office but about 2/3rds of state governorships and about 2/3rds of state legislatures.

    Democrats barely control their own party.

    --
    Ken
  70. Re:Your kids won't get jobs by ranton · · Score: 2

    The saddest part of your post is you probably aren't even intentionally trolling. You think you are being insightful.

    To put this simply: When your two kids turn 18 and are trying to get jobs, there is also one immigrant competing for those same jobs.

    No, to put this simply: When your two kids turn 18 and are trying to get jobs, there are more jobs available because we have utilized immigration to improve our economy by them either starting their own companies or enhancing our overall workforce so more businesses are started and operated here.

    The economy is not a zero sum game. If 100,000 people entered the US, it wouldn't make 100,000 more people unemployed. There would be more jobs to feed, clothe, house, educate, entertain, and protect those people, to name a few. Our companies would be better able to compete with foreign companies because of this increased local access to labor. If these immigrants are on average harder working and more entrepreneurial than native citizens, which is certainly true, then they are a very welcome addition to our economy.

    As long as immigrants have limited access to generous welfare programs targeted at native citizens (which is already true in the US), excessive immigration is a self correcting problem since they wouldn't immigrate without available jobs. While there are certainly sectors of the economy where immigrant labor hurts native citizens, the answer is to provide assistance to those citizens not to stop the benefits of immigration.

    --
    -- All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing. -- Edmund Burke
  71. Re:mm-hmm by PopeRatzo · · Score: 1

    You could choose to just quit being an asshole and work to bring people together, realize that most people have far more in common than not, but no. You choose to ridicule and insult anyone different than you.

    You're talking to to wrong guy.

    http://www.nydailynews.com/new...

    --
    You are welcome on my lawn.
  72. indentations matter! by XXongo · · Score: 1

    Let me understand your position. Indentations only matter if it's Trump and a travel ban.

    I'm amused that you think indentations matter.

    1. Re: indentations matter! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      #indentationlivesmatter.

    2. Re: indentations matter! by dcw3 · · Score: 1

      Let me understand your position. Indentations only matter if it's Trump and a travel ban.

      I'm amused that you think indentations matter.

      I'm amused that you don't know that they do in a legal sense under some conditions.

      --
      Just another day in Paradise
    3. Re: indentations matter! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'm amused that you don't know that they do in a legal sense under some conditions.

      It is amazing how people manage to hijack just about any subject to rant about the significance of whitespace in Python.

      Next up: systemd

    4. Re: indentations matter! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'm amused enough to show my true indentations. It's been a while since I smiled hard enough for dimples...

  73. Re: mm-hmm by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    When the country is republican majority not only at the federal level, but also at the state level - the GOP controls not only the house, senate, and Oval Office but about 2/3rds of state governorships and about 2/3rds of state legislatures.

    Nope, the Country is actually not a Republican majority, in fact, it isn't even a Republican plurality. Remember, they LOST the popular vote for the Presidency, and in 2 out of the last 4 House elections, they got fewer votes than the Democrats, and when you drill down to the state legislatures, you can see even more radical evidence of the gerrymandering process, not to mention the unlawful attempts to restrict voter's access to the polls.

    The GOP is relying on a manipulated system to win. And there's lawsuits against them in a dozen states for their conduct.

    Democrats barely control their own party.

    Good, Democrats are much better then, who wants a lock-step monolithic agenda group?

    But oh wait, wait, have you seen the fractures in the GOP anyway? They're going to break.

  74. Correct: not reputable by XXongo · · Score: 1

    Well, let's just see where your liberal policies have gotten us, shall we? I was just now reading an article on immigration, which lists 6 quick facts(*) from the immigration report Trump asked for.

    I've learned to not trust breitbart as a source until I've verified what they say from a primary source. Even when there is a kernel of fact in their articles, they often misinterpret it, and usually do some heavy-duty quote mining to pick just one part of a long sentence, even if quoting the whole sentence in context would state the opposite.

    So: quote the original report, not the breitbart "interpretation" of the report.

    (*) There will be the inevitable idiot claiming that Breitbart isn't a credible source. You may note that the idiot doesn't discredit the story, or the information from the story, or (heavens!) the *source* of the information on which the story is based. Take that as you may.

    Correct. And I note that you didn't quote "the *source* of the information on which the story is based".

  75. Correlations to family size by XXongo · · Score: 1
    These are correlation studies. You can argue about causation, but correlations are relatively well established in the demographics.

    There are three things that are well established at correlating to reduced family size:
    1. Wealth. Poor people have larger families.
    2. Education. Better educated people have larger families.
    3. Access to birth control. Coercion is not needed: simply having birth control available for use, for those who choose to use it, results in (on the average) smaller family size.

    From my point of view, these are all good goals for either ideology, left or right, to aim for.

  76. Majority and control by XXongo · · Score: 1

    When the country is republican majority not only at the federal level, but also at the state level - the GOP controls not only the house, senate, and Oval Office but about 2/3rds of state governorships and about 2/3rds of state legislatures.

    You seem to be confusing "majority" with "control". The country is Republican-party controlled not only at the federal level, but also at the state level. But, in fact, it is slightly Democratic-party majority . More people voted for Democratic-party representatives than voted for Republican representatives.

    The reasons for this is in the details of the representative voting system. You can call it "gerrymandering" if you like, or you can just consider it a consequence of the way the representation by district system works.

  77. Revised Headline follows: by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    4,700 idiots are somehow elected mayor...

    Why? Why give up the competitive advantage for your citizens by forcing them to comply with your ideas of what's "green"?

    Personally, I think we should take an individual approach. If YOU want to do this kind of thing, great, but the government isn't going to force you to do it.

  78. Will They Pay 3rd World Not to Pollute? by Shuh · · Score: 1

    That is the real question.

    1. Re:Will They Pay 3rd World Not to Pollute? by bobbied · · Score: 1

      LOL, you need an answer to that question? This whole Paris Accord thing is a farce. We are just patting ourselves on the back and making ourselves feel better, but nothing is really being accomplished.

      --
      "File to fit, pound to insert, paint to match" - Aircraft Maintenance 101
  79. Next, States outlaw it. by T.E.D. · · Score: 1

    We've seen this before with cities trying their own minimum wage hikes. A few in deep blue states will get away with it, while Republican state legislatures (32 of the 50 states by my count) will pass laws banning cities from doing anything on their own.

  80. I'm ok with this but... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    the headline should read "Mayors of 7400 cities vow to waste constituents money".

  81. Careful or... by stedlj · · Score: 1

    Careful or Trump will Tweet about each one, and say bad things, that may make them feel bad, and he will smile.

    1. Re:Careful or... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Every time President Trump Tweets something that offends Progressives, an angle gets its wings.

  82. Follow the Money. by biggaijin · · Score: 1

    These mayors want to clean up the environment and conserve resources; that is a good thing. Are they also going to take on Obama's commitment to send billions of dollars to third-world countries to atone for our "exploitation" of the world? I doubt it.

    1. Re:Follow the Money. by bobbied · · Score: 1

      May the farce be with you... Lip service over substance is all this thing is.

      --
      "File to fit, pound to insert, paint to match" - Aircraft Maintenance 101
  83. Translation by kelanos · · Score: 1

    He will not divide us (we'll do it ourselves)

    ad infinitum

    More totally irrelevant 'partisan politics' fanfare.

    More perpetuation of the venomous and idiotic notion that common people can do something about pollution by making small changes to their lifestyle.

    If you want to save the environment, throw down this system and stop the insane consumption of resources for its own sake. So VERY many of us have our motivation, our outrage, stolen away from us by these false outlets for our discontent. Stop falling for it. Take up your problems with those who actually cause them. And being polite isn't going to cut it. You're going to need a sterner argument than mere words can provide.

  84. Re: mm-hmm by wyHunter · · Score: 2

    Country music is racist? Not that I've noticed...indeed, it doesn't talk about race at all. Especially the modern stuff, but even the old stuff. Oh, but wait, it was mostly poor white folks who sang it long ago, so according to your playbook they're all racists. Grow up.

  85. Re: mm-hmm by wyHunter · · Score: 0

    Stop trolling. If you came to the middle of the country and especially if you get away from liberal ghettos like Denver, you'd see we do like it here in the heartland. But then again, please don't do that. Stay away. We're all a bunch of gun toting hillbillies here who would eat your liver for lunch.

  86. Re:Your kids won't get jobs by wyHunter · · Score: 1

    THat kind of nationalist, populist B.S. won world war II . And if you think we're not going to have another one - quite soon - you're most likely mistaken.

  87. Stupidest thing ever by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Here is why this is the stupidest thing since sliced beans.

    These cities are doing NOTHING about actual toxic emissions. They have a delusional monomania about CO_2, while ignoring for example diesel particulates, SO_2 emissions, toxic organics like those from roof tarring, and similar stuff that directly harms people's health right now. Why? Because no one makes money by preventing toxics, but plenty of people make money by selling "renewable" solutions which increase said cities' expenses, while in fact having zero effect on global warming.

    So, these programs are really a violation of the 1st Amendment, since they amount to an impermissible endorsement of a particular religion -- the apocalyptic climate cult.

  88. This is Fake News by WillAffleckUW · · Score: 1

    It's not 7400 cities.

    It's 7500 now.

    --
    -- Tigger warning: This post may contain tiggers! --
  89. Binding your own hands behind your backs by WillAffleckUW · · Score: 1

    You're just making your states and cities less efficient by avoiding green energy.

    Why are jobs growing so fast in Blue cities?

    Because we build. We invest. We make more efficient products, goods and services, using LESS energy, and we use CHEAPER green energy.

    Wind and solar are - wait for it - CHEAPER.

    The Invisible Hand of Capitalism cares nothing for your failed fossil fuel religion.

    --
    -- Tigger warning: This post may contain tiggers! --
  90. Re: Your kids won't get jobs by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Real poverty doesn't exist in the US, and the long-term trend is for decreasing poverty. It has been a long time since poverty increased under any president.

    "being poor in the US isn't even that bad"

    I am more concerned with the continued lowering of living standards for the middle class.

    "I don't want to be poor. how terrible would that be, right?"

  91. Well as long as they vowed.. by kaatochacha · · Score: 1

    ...We should be OK.
    For example, the mayor of my city, Los Angeles, vowed to make the pork-ridden DWP ( Department of Water and Power) begin contributing to the cost of their health plans. FYI: the AVERAGE DWP employee earns 26% more than the average civilian worker.
    They just renegotiated with the union yesterday. The new contract has them contributing nothing to health care, with a 12% raise.
    So , really, Vows are worthless.

  92. Never been to a tourist spot by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    They have kiosks that sell these at places all over America. I've seen them at amusement parks as well. There are also about a half dozen websites that will do this for you, some even have examples with Time magazine (and GQ and Sports Illustrated).

    The Snarky Left is an amazing phenomenon to watch as it has nearly destroyed the liberal political crowd's power in this country. If you honestly believe DJT snuck into one of his many golf clubhouses to put up a fake Time magazine cover, then holy shit you are stupid. Of course you seem to think people who don't agree with you live on a different world, so maybe you are just insane?

  93. Re:Your kids won't get jobs by T.E.D. · · Score: 1

    I for one want the Star Trek future promised to me by Gene Roddenberry and Bill Hicks.

    Fun fact: The same year Star Trek was showing us a workplace where a black woman was a ship's officer treated just like every other co-worker, George Wallace was running for POTUS, and won 5 states and 46 electoral votes on a platform of racial segregation. He won the vote nationwide among young white men.

    What Roddenberry presented wasn't a "promise", but an alternate aspiration for what we could one day be. If any of it looks normal now, that's only because a lot of people wanted that future, and paid for it in blood, sweat, and tears. Sometimes with their lives.

    Artists can show us possibilities, but if you want real-world change, making it happen is your job.

  94. Indentations? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Tabs or spaces?

  95. Re:Your kids won't get jobs by WrongMonkey · · Score: 1

    That kind of nationalist, populist B.S. is what started World War II. And if we have another World War, there won't be any winners.

  96. Re: mm-hmm by david_thornley · · Score: 1

    In discussions about the relocation camps, I've noticed that liberals tend to call it racist and unacceptable while conservatives are more likely to justify it.

    --
    "When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
  97. Re: Your kids won't get jobs by david_thornley · · Score: 1

    Actually, Oklan Warrior was complaining about legal immigrants, and some people apparently thought it was about illegal immigrants.

    --
    "When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
  98. Re:19,354 cities in the US,yep by david_thornley · · Score: 1

    If you're going to post a reply, you might want to make the reply relevant to the post.

    The fact is that, when someone criticizes Trump or his actions, it's very likely that someone will disparage Hillary Clinton as if that's an answer. Look, guys, you won. You now are responsible for what happens. Clinton lost. She isn't responsible. Get over it and take some responsibility, instead of sniveling about how Clinton would have been worse.

    --
    "When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
  99. Re: mm-hmm by OutOnARock · · Score: 1

    .........with some fava beans and a nice chianti?

  100. Okay... by Ferretman · · Score: 1

    ....let'em. Most of them don't have any money (see California).

    Ferret

    --
    Sic gorgiamus allos subjectatos nunc
  101. Re: mm-hmm by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    For example, the famed Michelle Malkin.

  102. 7,400 cities choosing to bankrupt themselves... by sethstorm · · Score: 0

    I'd rather live in a city that openly says it won't abide by such edicts. That way I know that they're not beholden to environmentalist lobbying groups, but to their constituents.

    But then that would upset the modbombers here.

    --
    Twitter supports and protects racists - by smearing their critics with the "Hate Speech" label.
  103. Re: mm-hmm by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Democrats barely control their own party.

    Maybe you should take a look at the money they take in. They hardly need to win. In fact being the underdog probably helps bring in more. Goes to show what suckers their fanatics are.

  104. OMG by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Trump is out of touch. Your comment shows that you are too.

    It isn't a "good thing" that Trump withdrew from the Paris Accords and then the cities stepped up. It's a serious sign of a disconnect between the Trump Administration and all those municipalities and the people they represent.

    Trump is clueless and got to where he is by shouting down others, perfecting a line of patter that the gullible can fall for, and failing upwards in the manner best described by the Peter Principle.

  105. Re:Your kids won't get jobs by wyHunter · · Score: 1

    We've been in a world war for about 10 years now, only most of you folks can't see it. And spare me the 'oooh, we're all gonna be nuked an DIE!!' I really can't see it - and I live in a freaking missile field.

  106. Re: mm-hmm by wyHunter · · Score: 1

    Nah, burgers and beer are better. Or Chili. Or, as I had today, smoked prime rib, spinach, and peas.