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The White House Now Has Zero Science Advisors (cbsnews.com)

DogDude shares an article from CBS News: The science division of the White House's Office of Science and Technology Policy was unstaffed as of Friday as the three remaining employees departed this week, sources tell CBS News... On Friday afternoon, Eleanor Celeste, the assistant director for biomedical and forensic sciences at the OSTP, tweeted, "Science division out. Mic drop" before leaving the office for the last time...

Under Mr. Obama, the science division was staffed with nine employees who led the charge on policy issues such as STEM education, biotechnology and crisis response. It's possible that the White House will handle these issues through staff in other divisions within the OSTP.

43 of 405 comments (clear)

  1. The New Formula by MightyMartian · · Score: 5, Insightful

    A government of the idiots, by the idiots and for the idiots.

    --
    The world's burning. Moped Jesus spotted on I50. Details at 11.
    1. Re:The New Formula by Archtech · · Score: 5, Interesting

      A government of the idiots, by the idiots and for the idiots.

      More accurately: a government of the people, by the employees of the super-rich, for the super-rich.

      In one word, a plutocracy.

      --
      I am sure that there are many other solipsists out there.
    2. Re: The New Formula by WarJolt · · Score: 3, Insightful

      The government is there to serve the people. It's progressively become more about leading the people.

      There are plenty generous scientists in public and private institutions that can do the proper research, so that the government can be accurately informed.

      If DT had science advisors they would simply serve his agenda anyway. The same stuff happens with Democrats.

      Let the thinking happen outside of government. Pubic universities are a exception because they have some amount of autonomy from the government political bull shit. Professors don't have to worry about reelection. There are plenty of private institutions that don't have political agendas as well. Keep the government serving the people. Not leading it.

      That means limiting the power of the President. Democrats and Republicans in all branches of government don't have to represent anyone when you let loose the reins.

    3. Re:The New Formula by RazorSharp · · Score: 3, Insightful

      You [Americans]n (assuming you are), are always proud of your system.

      Your whole post relies on this incorrect generalization. While it may be true for some, it's not true for the whole. While some Americans shed blood attempting to export our political system, others protested both the shedding of blood and the political system itself.

      --
      "From the depths of my skeptical and rationalist soul, I ask the Lord to protect me from California touchie-feeliedom."
    4. Re:The New Formula by Plus1Entropy · · Score: 4, Insightful

      YES.

      --
      Only crack the nuts that crack. You don't put the ones that don't crack in the sack.
    5. Re: The New Formula by gtall · · Score: 5, Insightful

      There is no clear line between serving and leading. An example is EPA and the Superfund cleanups. If we were to wait until the "people" figured out what to do, we'd still be waiting. You forget private institutions have their own biases. Care to call the tobacco industry fair minded and interested in the public weal?

    6. Re: The New Formula by avatar+avatar · · Score: 2

      "...Professors don't have to worry about reelection..." After they're tenured, correct. Until then, not so much.

    7. Re:The New Formula by LynnwoodRooster · · Score: 2, Informative

      When it comes to shedding blood to export our system to other nations, we're rank amateurs compared to the old colonial powers of Europe. You know, the ones who instititionalized slavery in the Americas and most of the rest of the world, who set up Apartheid, genocide, and fanned the flames of two world wars (and the resulting communist revolutions) that killed hundreds of millions of people.

      --
      Browsing at +1 - no ACs, I ignore their posts. So refreshing!
    8. Re:The New Formula by crashumbc · · Score: 3, Insightful

      You don't believe that? do you? wow....

      FYI, there's so much "charitable" giving in the US because we don't take care of basic needs...

    9. Re:The New Formula by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

      A government of the idiots, by the idiots and for the idiots.

      It appears that Trump's mental health may really be in question. Is there no one that can order him to sit a professional exam with a team of non partisan psychiatrists?

      I'm not fan of pence either. He might get all kinds of things I hate done, but he does appear to at least be mentally stable and at this point that is looking like an improvement. We can't have all this crap going on in a rather dangerous world and have someone mentally unfit in charge. This time it may be a hell of a lot worse than 9/11.

      They attacked Obama for everything they could possibly think to do so, real or imagined, and he didn't once loose his cool or act unpresidential. Hell his biggest mistake might have been the red line with no response. His options sucked then and they still do, but responding was required. Beyond that he didn't make the personal relationships required to get some things done, but then half the congress was perfectly fine with whatever shit was being shoveled, including by the chief birther who strangely enough became our president. Trump is still attacking Obama with made up crap left/right and center and Obama doesn't even respond, which I think is a mistake, but it is a hell of a lot better than Trump's actions.

      Trump has gotten around the world something like a 22% approval rating. The only country that likes him is Russia, and that is because Putin is propping up his investment there, most likely in the hope that he can last long enough to do a lot more damage to our country.

      The US is supposed to be the leader of the free world, but right now we are anything but... Not leading on the climate. Not leading in equality (muslim ban), Not leading in opportunity (mexicans are rapists and we must build a wall), Not leading on health care (going backward), Not leading on science (the office in the white house now has 0 staff.), Not leading on Innovation (coal appears to get more support than newer techologies), Not leading on the environment ( rolling back regulations left and right, without even any real analysis if it is a good idea), Not leading on transparency (no tax returns, still taking money at trump properties, no real divestment, tax cuts planned will likely directly benefit Trump and his companies, health care bill created in secret, limiting video and time at daily briefs, saying questions will be answered but never actually answering them.)

      Hell about the only thing the current admin is leading on is bullshit. In that we have made America #1. It is all rather sad.

    10. Re:The New Formula by dunkelfalke · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Stop drinking the KoolAid. USA protects oil supplies for themselves only. And before you blabber about "but but but we don't import oil from the Middle East": oil market is a global commodity market and it matters fuck all whence a country imports its oil. If a country in the Middle East stops pumping it out of the ground, your gas prices will soar. And as for fighting wars in the Middle East: most of them are the ones you have started in first place.

      --
      "It's such a fine line between stupid and clever" -- David St. Hubbins, Spinal Tap
    11. Re:The New Formula by shanen · · Score: 2

      Again, I have to disagree (though I'm repeating myself). America has become a government of the corporations, by the lawyers, for the richest 0.1%. You're going in the right direction in the last two parts, but I have doubts about the last one. If corporate cancerism finally triumphs, it might be reduced all the way to the richest person.

      --
      Freedom = (Meaningful - Coerced) Choice != (Speech | Beer^2), and sad sock puppets' bad mods avail them naught.
    12. Re: The New Formula by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      No one said Trump was a Antisemite. His advisories and appointees however, are well known for blatant examples of it. Personally I don't give a fuck about that part of the world. Ditto on "the gays" and commies, etc. What hitler did was bad, sure, it now much of a direct impact on me.

      I'm white, and I have a couple extra bucks. But I'm young enough that the damage this grifter is doing is negatively impacting even my future. Hes making the world more dangerous, faster. He is a con man who employs many, though not exclusively, other cons. Even his friend Howard Stern is admitting that Trumps psyche is cracking more and more.

      The man is a danger to himself and others.

    13. Re: The New Formula by meglon · · Score: 2, Insightful

      So you agree with all the neo-Nazi's in this country that Trump is a great savior for the white man. Think about that.

      --
      Fascism: An authoritarian and nationalistic right-wing system of government and social organization. See also: NAZI's
    14. Re: The New Formula by CGordy · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Iran is (unfairly) vilified in the US press, ever since the overthrow of the Shah. The reality is, Saudi Arabia is far more repressive and brutal towards minorities, but because they are a US ally it is ignored.

      On a personal note, I know plenty of Iranian women. Most of them I would argue are "uppity", but they also happily travel back to Iran every year or two on holidays.

    15. Re:The New Formula by acrimonious+howard · · Score: 4, Informative

      What data do you have to the contrary? ...what basic needs do we not take care of?

      https://web.stanford.edu/class...

      Every other advanced industrial nation has virtually universal access to decent medical care, at much lower cost than in the United States.

    16. Re: The New Formula by Comen · · Score: 3, Insightful

      The same stuff happens with Democrats.

      Not really, it seems to me Republicans hate Government and want to make it smaller, so that it gets out of the way of the companies making money, so they purposely put people in charge that are bad at the position and want it to fail, sometimes these people are even outspoken about not liking the section of government they manage. There is always and will always be corruption in government because money corrupts. But I do not see both sides the same at all.

    17. Re: The New Formula by Zontar+The+Mindless · · Score: 2

      Insightful mod for a "Jew" who can't spell "Israel"?

      --
      Il n'y a pas de Planet B.
    18. Re:The New Formula by Zontar+The+Mindless · · Score: 2
      --
      Il n'y a pas de Planet B.
    19. Re:The New Formula by gtall · · Score: 2

      Conferring my ass. Those corporate types are sharks to Trump's minnow mentality. They are playing him for the doofus he really is. The only conferring going on is Trump begging for their acceptance because deep down he's a 5-year old needy brat.

    20. Re: The New Formula by RazorSharp · · Score: 2

      A democracy with universal healthcare = a generous society.

      --
      "From the depths of my skeptical and rationalist soul, I ask the Lord to protect me from California touchie-feeliedom."
  2. 9 people did.... what exactly? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

    So, under Obama, they had 9 people working in this office, making $150,000 a year, doing... what exactly?
    What were the great visionary policies for science coming out of the Obama White House?
    What great technologies did the administration sponsor?
    Maybe they advised the President well on internet and cybersecurity issues, to the benefit of the nation's retailers and online account holders?

    No, the OSTP focused on education policy, advocated for more women in science, preached climate change, and worked for social justice. Their primary accomplishments were creating more boards and commissions and hiring more bureaucrats. They also wrote some boring non-technical non-policy papers. Oh, yes, they gave a number of empty speeches.
    Futurists, with much better paychecks, at the taxpayers expense.

    So, what loss is it to not have self-important 'advisers' and 'science experts' hanging around doing nothing useful? Abolish the office entirely, and return to they way it was in the 70s, before ignorant celebrity 'scientists' got government jobs.

    1. Re:9 people did.... what exactly? by rastos1 · · Score: 2

      So, under Obama, they had 9 people working in this office, making $150,000 a year, doing... what exactly?
      What were the great visionary policies for science coming out of the Obama White House?

      So under Trump you have 1 man working in office making $400000 a year doing what exactly? Being an embarrassment for all Americans? Surrounding himself with idiots defending undefendable? What great visionary policy came out from the Oval office? Mexican wall? Firing Comey? Travel ban? Offending allies? Banning cameras from White House briefing? Repealing FCC privacy rules? Withdrawing from Paris Agreement?
      Even if those advisories did absolutely nothing, it is still much better then doing the damage like Trump does.

  3. not all utopian cooperativeness on this planet by supernova87a · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I know that we would like to view every country on Earth as occupants of this cooperative spaceship that has to sustain humanity, and therefore in a sense it doesn't matter all that much that we get set back by one country slowing its science progress for a few years...

    But in reality...

    It's still a race for competitive advantage between countries, and seriously, the Chinese, Indians, Singaporeans, etc.etc are going to start eating our lunch, guys (even more than they are) -- and every move we make gets us forward or back a step in the race against them.

    I think a lot of people don't want to admit this winner-takes-all reality... especially if they grow up in a highly liberal California environment where everyone is supposed to be nice to each other...

  4. Re:Changes in administration by fredrated · · Score: 2

    Thank you for giving the fool's opinion. Even fool's like yourself should be heard, so your foolishness can be seen.

  5. How many in NASA under Obama? by OYAHHH · · Score: 2, Funny

    For he certainly put them to good use.... What with the "Focus on Muslim Outreach" mandate Obama issued to NASA.

    Look, Trump already has a scientist he can refer to if so be. His name is Ben Carson. And he is as good as anyone Obama had working for him.

    --
    Caution: Contents under pressure
    1. Re:How many in NASA under Obama? by mean+pun · · Score: 4, Insightful

      >

      Look, Trump already has a scientist he can refer to if so be. His name is Ben Carson. And he is as good as anyone Obama had working for him.

      You mean the genius that claimed that the pyramids were there to store grain? See https://www.theguardian.com/us...

    2. Re:How many in NASA under Obama? by mean+pun · · Score: 5, Insightful

      And he's still easily as good as or not better than anyone Obama had.

      Obama was a crappy president running on feel-good SJW bull. His singular accomplishment was ruining the US healthcare system, something we're still trying to recover from. Ben Carson is easily better than literally anyone Obama had working for him.

      This is where any dialog simply breaks down. You either believe this, and you're just bonkers; you're trolling, and I am sorry you don't have anything interesting to do in your life; or you're shilling, and I can only hope you reincarnate as something highly educational.

    3. Re:How many in NASA under Obama? by LynnwoodRooster · · Score: 2, Informative

      Your Google Fu is weak. Pay attention to the Youtube video where you can watch Charles Bolden, NASA Chief under Obama, state unambiguously that he was directed to reach out to the Muslim world to make them feel good about their contributions to science and engineering.

      --
      Browsing at +1 - no ACs, I ignore their posts. So refreshing!
    4. Re:How many in NASA under Obama? by drinkypoo · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Obama really did screw up healthcare royally by creating a system where insurance will pay for healthcare no matter the cost.

      Health care is screwed up because of insurance companies, which manipulate the system and wind up making it more expensive for everyone; and because of politicians' relationship with Big Pharma, which also makes the system more expensive for everyone. Obamacare wrote the insurance companies into the law, but they were already insinuated into the system so he didn't actually put them there. What he did was completely fail to get them out. What we need is a single payer system which doesn't include them at all. It doesn't really matter whether that's Medicare expansion or some other system, but the insurance companies and the deep relationship with big pharma have got to go. Unfortunately, Clinton has lots of big pharma money in her pockets, and she has said that single payer will never happen, so she was not the answer. Sanders supported single payer, but the DNC wouldn't let us vote for him for president, so we got Trump and Trumpcare instead. You can blame the DNC for both of those things, since the polls showed that Sanders could beat Trump, and Clinton couldn't.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
  6. Re:Kind, compassionate idiots by jeremyp · · Score: 4, Insightful

    And yet, when it comes to providing healthcare for all US citizens, it's "fuck them, why should I pay for other people's healthcare".

    No, you aren't compassionate and generous.

    --
    All I want is a secure system where it's easy to do anything I want. Is that too much to ask ~~ Randall Munroe
  7. Re:Kind, compassionate idiots by gtall · · Score: 4, Insightful

    You mean the Republicans have the "fuck them" attitude. The Democrats finally bit the bullet and raised taxes to attempt to cover the proles. Now if they hadn't relied on the insurance companies, they'd have done much better.

  8. Re:Efficiency by gtall · · Score: 2

    You mean scientists at NASA, NOAA, EPA, DOE, etc. that the administration and their fellow travelers in Congress are ignoring? Them scientists?

  9. Re:Kind, compassionate idiots by serviscope_minor · · Score: 5, Insightful

    We helped Europe deal with Nazi Germany

    I'm not quite sure how fighting the Axis after being attacked by it counts as generous.

    But anyway, the US has done many good, generous things, many neutral things and many rather awful, self-interested things.

    --
    SJW n. One who posts facts.
  10. Re:Kind, compassionate idiots by colinwb · · Score: 2, Informative

    "I'm not quite sure how fighting the Axis after being attacked by it counts as generous" - Well, before December 1941 the US with Franklin D. Roosevelt as President was doing quite a bit of prodding the Axis (rightly, in my British view), for example:

    • Lend Lease "...This program effectively ended the United States' pretense of neutrality and was a decisive step away from non-interventionist policy, which had dominated United States foreign relations since 1931 ... In December 1940, President Roosevelt proclaimed the U.S. would be the 'Arsenal of Democracy' and proposed selling munitions to Britain and Canada ..."
    • Battle of the Atlantic "... By 1941, the United States was taking an increasing part in the war, despite its nominal neutrality. In April 1941 President Roosevelt extended the Pan-American Security Zone east almost as far as Iceland. British forces occupied Iceland when Denmark fell to the Germans in 1940; the US was persuaded to provide forces to relieve British troops on the island. American warships began escorting Allied convoys in the western Atlantic as far as Iceland, and had several hostile encounters with U-boats. ..."
      Escort Duties: ... From May 1941 the US Navy became a British ally in the struggle in the Atlantic. By taking over escort duties in the western Atlantic, it became involved in a shooting war with Germany, and on Halloween 1941, the inevitable happened. While escorting a British convoy, an American warship, the destroyer Reuben James, was torpedoed and sunk by the submarine U-562. This was at a time when Roosevelt still faced fierce opposition from isolationists within the USA, and escort duties in the Battle of the Atlantic had so far been the most that the President could do to bring the USA into the war on the British side. However, eventually this undeclared German-American naval war probably played a role in Hitler's decision to declare war on the USA - in the aftermath of Pearl Harbor. ...
    • US aid to China: ... In 1940 and 1941, President Franklin D. Roosevelt formalized U.S. aid to China. The U.S. Government extended credits to the Chinese Government for the purchase of war supplies, as it slowly began to tighten restrictions on Japan. The United States was the main supplier of the oil, steel, iron, and other commodities needed by the Japanese military as it became bogged down by Chinese resistance but, in January, 1940, Japan abrogated the existing treaty of commerce with the United States. Although this did not lead to an immediate embargo, it meant that the Roosevelt Administration could now restrict the flow of military supplies into Japan and use this as leverage to force Japan to halt its aggression in China. After January 1940, the United States combined a strategy of increasing aid to China through larger credits and the Lend-Lease program with a gradual move towards an embargo on the trade of all militarily useful items with Japan. ...
  11. Why do you think I got OUT of public service? by buss_error · · Score: 5, Insightful

    For more than a decade, I tried to serve the public good by working in the public sector. I finally got fed up with the shit pay, the shit I got when people found out I worked in the government (called a pig at the trough, incompetent, stupid, lazy, a drone, had my car vandalized multiple times, threaten with death on a weekly basis, and assaulted) and got a job in the private sector that pays one hell of a lot better.

    The key here is that there is now a majority of people that think science and engineering are "just someone's opinion." That is true to a limited extent that it is indeed an opinion - but it's an opinion formed from training, intense study, experience, and perseverance. These opinions are not something someone pulls out of their ass.

    The current administration was elected by the sorts of people that deny scientific opinion because it conflicts with their world view. The sorts of folks that think welfare is for the lazy the drug addicted, and cheats. Of course the white house science department has no employees. The people that elected this administration do not value science, compassion, empathy, or Christian Values, despite many of them calling themselves Christians. They are not Christians. At best they mistake their fear and anger for piety, their selfishness, lack of compassion and imagination as "being strong". These attitudes serve no one but the top 1%. The key here is that if you read this, you will never be one of the top 1%.

    "The world isn't fair" is an excuse I hear a lot, which is true, life frequently isn't fair. Evil prospers when good men do nothing. There's nothing like doing nothing to ensure that life will remain unfair, and uncaring.

    --
    Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves.
  12. Re:Kind, compassionate idiots by StevenMaurer · · Score: 4, Insightful

    It was the Republicans and the Dems BOTH who shot down Hillary's Single Payer Health Care Bill

    Wasting time introducing internet kooks to facts is an endless wast of time, but just FYI, "Hillary-care" as it was called, was not exactly single payer. That is part of the reason why the Sanders wing of the Democratic party wasn't all that enchanted with her in 2016.

    It did have the vast majority of Democrats behind it, and Republicans were absolutely terrified that it would prove to the public that the government can solve problems that private markets can't find profit in solving.

    Prominent opposition to the Clinton plan was led by William Kristol and his policy group Project for the Republican Future, which is widely credited with orchestrating the plan's defeat through a series of now legendary "policy memos" faxed to Republican leaders.

    The long-term political effects of a successful... health care bill will be even worse—much worse.... It will revive the reputation of... Democrats as the generous protector of middle-class interests. And it will at the same time strike a punishing blow against Republican claims to defend the middle class by restraining government.

    —William Kristol, "Defeating President Clinton's Healthcare Proposal", December 1993

  13. Re:Kind, compassionate idiots by skullandbones99 · · Score: 2

    WW2 when the US government was NOT coming to Great Britain's aid until after Perl Harbour happened in December 1941 some 2 years after the start of WW2. Churchill had to pay the US to get the US to send supplies across the Atlantic whilst the German's sunk many of the convoys via their U-boats.

    The Battle of Britain in the summer of 1940 was the British Royal Air Force up against the German Air Force. Britain had a small number of air crews from other European and Commonwealth countries such as Poland, Canada and India. The US government was absent from the fight citing that it was a European war.

    I agree that after WW2 there was the US Marshall plan in 1948 to help rebuild Western Europe however, the European governments had to pay back the US over decades. In addition, the US motives included pushing back communism to Eastern Europe.

    Please try to get your facts right.

  14. Re:Kind, compassionate idiots by meglon · · Score: 2

    No. It's been undermined before it even passed by worthless, fucking greedy, self serving, anti-American, anti-Christian republicans. Pull your head out of your ass and check out reality for once in your life.

    --
    Fascism: An authoritarian and nationalistic right-wing system of government and social organization. See also: NAZI's
  15. Re:Kind, compassionate idiots by txmason · · Score: 2

    So what you're saying is, you're too fucking stupid to understand what "insurance" is. I honestly can't tell if you're just a fucking liar, or actually as completely fucking stupid as your posts make you out to be.

    Insurance is for catastrophic unforeseen events. Obamacare is pre-paid health care. You don't use car insurance to fill your gas tank, change the oil, or get a new tire. Why the hell do you need medical insurance for a routine predictable medical event?

  16. Re:Is science listed in the constitution? by meglon · · Score: 3, Insightful

    The constitution also states we should only have a standing army during an invasion or insurrection.... but never lasting more than 2 years. It says nothing about an Air Force. It does say a standing Navy, but not a separate Marine Corp. So what you're saying is, we need to disband the entire Army (they've been active more than 2 years now), remove all our military members from all other countries, eliminate all of our Air Force, and move the Marines back into the Navy's chain of command.

    OR, are you saying, you don't even know what's in the Constitution, but you just have to bring it up to try to use it's authority to make your ignorance seem useful?

    --
    Fascism: An authoritarian and nationalistic right-wing system of government and social organization. See also: NAZI's
  17. Re:Kind, compassionate idiots by Sir+Holo · · Score: 2

    But we didn't "provide healthcare", we simply required people to buy health insurance at higher premiums and with higher deductibles than before. Thanks for putting the insurance companies in our pockets, guys! And Obamacare is crumbling, most of the "exchanges" will be defunct by next year if it is left just as the Democrats (it was passed by a partisan super-majority) and Obama intended. Except for the bit where they expected a Democrat to be in the White House to declare it defunct so they could replace it with something worse.

    My health insurance, with the same provider providing the same level of coverage, cost 1/3 of what it did before the ACA went into effect.

  18. Re: Efficiency by LynnwoodRooster · · Score: 2

    To eliminate the deficit, every taxpayer will have to pay an additional $15,000 per year. Ready to do that? Or we could have Government scale back its spending... If you look at Hauser's Law, you'll see that for all the massive swings in the marginal tax rates over the last 70 years, the actual tax receipts are amazingly stable.

    The reality is, if the Federal Government simply pegged the annual increases in its budget to no more than inflation plus population growth, in about 50 years our debt would be retired. The GDP - and thus, based on Hauser's Law, the share of GDP that the Federal Government receives as taxes - grows faster than inflation plus population growth. Peg growth - limit spending - and not a single tax needs to be raised. IF tax rates are adjusted, they should be done with an eye towards growing the GDP at a faster rate as that will increase the funds delivered to the Federal Government.

    Imagine - slash no programs, and peg spending GROWTH (yes, growth - not cuts) to a rational level related to the consumption of services (inflation - cost of delivery - plus population growth - number of consumers). Democrats SHOULD be happy, they get to keep all their spending. And we implement no new taxes or any tax increases. Republicans SHOULD be happy, there is no new taxes. But sadly, neither side will want it because they lose their leverage...

    --
    Browsing at +1 - no ACs, I ignore their posts. So refreshing!