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Ask Slashdot: Is There a Way To Experience the Chinese Internet From Outside? (fffff.at)

Posted by BeauHD on from the great-firewall dept.

dryriver writes: In 2008, a bunch of crafty developers created a Firefox plugin called China Channel. It apparently allowed you to connect to a proxy server in China, and experience the -- heavily censored and filtered -- internet as Chinese citizens experienced it back then. The nearly decade old plugin doesn't seem to work anymore. My modern Firefox browser couldn't install it. So the question: is there a way to surf the internet as if you were inside China, and experience for yourself how much of the experience is censored or filtered? It would be interesting to experience firsthand what the Great Firewall of China lets you see of the free world and internet as we know it in 2017, and what it does not.

41 of 93 comments (clear)

  1. old movie quote by turkeydance · · Score: 1

    .....preoccupied with whether or not they could that they didn't stop to think if they should.

    1. Re:old movie quote by Unreal+One · · Score: 1

      That would be Contact, no?

    2. Re:old movie quote by Unreal+One · · Score: 1

      Nm, face palm, Jurassic Park.

    3. Re:old movie quote by andreas.hummelbrunne · · Score: 1

      BIG facepalm please.

  2. Re:Chinternet by desdinova+216 · · Score: 1

    what's with all of the hate towards Creimer lately?

  3. I think that the more important question is... by sudden.zero · · Score: 1

    ...why would you want to?

    1. Re:I think that the more important question is... by DontBeAMoran · · Score: 1

      To get better prices on AliExpress?

      --
      #DeleteFacebook
    2. Re:I think that the more important question is... by antdude · · Score: 1

      For curiousity and fun!

      --
      Ant(Dude) @ Quality Foraged Links (AQFL.net) & The Ant Farm (antfarm.ma.cx / antfarm.home.dhs.org).
    3. Re:I think that the more important question is... by infolation · · Score: 1

      Can we obtain some genuine, Beijing, polluted air-in-a-can, to 'taste the difference' while we experience our Great Firewalled Internet?

    4. Re:I think that the more important question is... by antdude · · Score: 1

      Ha, that reminds me of Spaceballs! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v...

      --
      Ant(Dude) @ Quality Foraged Links (AQFL.net) & The Ant Farm (antfarm.ma.cx / antfarm.home.dhs.org).
  4. Re:Nothing "free" about "our" world... by DontBeAMoran · · Score: 1, Offtopic

    The only thing that makes me angry about jews is that Mel Brooks still hasn't given us another Spaceballs movie.

    --
    #DeleteFacebook
  5. Re:APK can do this by DontBeAMoran · · Score: 1

    Do you work for the CIA or something? How the fuck did you know Bob was my uncle?

    --
    #DeleteFacebook
  6. Re:Nothing "free" about "our" world... by rholtzjr · · Score: 1

    I would like to see another Blazing Saddles. Classic.

  7. I'm sure this was asked in 2008 too by nnet · · Score: 1

    why?

  8. Hosts file by poity · · Score: 1

    Modify your hosts file so everything in the block list points to 0.0.0.0
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...

    Enjoy your visit! Now don't let it happen to your country.

    --
    your thin skin doesn't make me a troll
  9. No by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

    Internal Chinese internet is extremely fast, you can easily stream 4K video, search results load instantly. The majority of people in China think the internet is very good. Now when it comes to foreign websites or almost all websites outside of china without a vpn it is nightmarishly slow. Even non blocked websites run slowly, especially at peak times of the day when people are using the contested international links. Local torrents including every tv show / movie will download in a few minutes even if they are 6gb or more

    Blocked websites are not particularly interesting you simply get a "the website unexpectedly disconnected" message or something similar as the GFW computers send a disconnection request.

    The good side of things is that 100mb down/4mb up costs 1400rmb per year (200 usd) and if your in shanghai they've started rolling out gigabit internet. Makes life good for downloading torrents.

    1. Re:No by lkcl · · Score: 4, Informative

      the "fast" websites you're referring to are things like the universities, and the "big commercial" websites. things that the majority of smartphone-addicted chinese citizens use every waking moment of their lives. things like wechat and other companies. wechat *has* to be fast because it's now used pretty much everywhere, for paying for everything from bills to groceries. the average medium-sized business however is still stuck with ridiculously-slow internet access. component suppliers in shenzhen simply cannot tolerate maintaining a decent web site because it's so slow that they just don't perceive there to be any benefit at all in doing so. i uploaded a stack of datasheets to my server on behalf of one of my suppliers, because for them to do it the speed would be so ridiculously slow they might as well not bother, and to just email them to clients on request: it's quicker and more reliable. note that's CHINESE clients.

      some insight:

      https://bugs.chromium.org/p/ch...

      this gives you an idea of what it's like to try to browse websites. literally every single problem that you've ever encountered arbitrarily and very very occasionally, perhaps maybe once every two to twelve months if that: HTTPS errors, socket errors, timeout errors at the network layer, timeout errors at the SSL layer, SSL certificate errors, cache inconsistency errors - LITERALLY every single possible network-related error - occurred on a regular and unending excruciatingly monotonous basis.

      trying to log in to https accounts.google.com just to enable IMAP took me TWO HOURS and over TWENTY refresh attempts. eventually enough got into the browser cache for it to take ONLY five minutes for the page to load... but the AJAX-controlled radio button refused to update properly, so i had to repeat the process. offlineimap (and running cyrus imap server *on my laptop*) was the only way to gain access to the 50,000 emails in my gmail inbox. it took five days to sync them all down.

      the chromium team have accidentally marked this bugreport as "related to and problem is directly caused by VPN" but it's not. you can emulate this behaviour (answering the OP's question) by setting up a network filter (which you can do with a userspace tun/tap program written e.g. in python) that randomly and arbitrarily drops between 20 and 80% of packets, and limits the traffic rate to between 15 and SIX kilobytes per second. also you should add huge packet latency as an option: up to around 20 seconds should do the trick.

      access to the UK is particularly bad (15k/sec); access to the USA is slightly better (around 70k/sec). during that massive DDOS attack (i happened to be in shenzhen at the time) all speeds dropped to around 5-10k/sec and packet loss was consistently around 80% (i run a constant "ping" in a window).

      the worst latency i saw on openvpn was around 120 seconds, when using TCP instead of UDP. yes you read that right: not 120 MILLI-seconds - one hundred and twenty SECONDS. the connection was so bad that the bandwidth throttling option of openvpn simply did not work. i had to constantly change from TCP to UDP and back, and to regularly change the port number of the VPN.

      as i have a server with a fixed IP address i gave serious consideration to writing my own userspace traffic proxy/router - not even a VPN, just a NAT/forwarding service - that would automatically make multiple connections over an arbitrary and random series of TCP and UDP connections, XOR something over the top of every packet, add a sequence number in front of the packet (exactly like TCP) and then reassemble the stream in-order at the other end of the connection.

      basically with all my contacts being outside of china, there was absolutely no way that i could conduct business in china. every single software developer that i met INCLUDING CHINESE NATIONAL CITIZENS had a VPN connection. every foreigner trying to do business had a VPN connection. every tourist th

    2. Re:No by Dr.Saeuerlich · · Score: 1

      Your problem are "dependencies", like the stupid "Like" buttons you find on pretty much every website nowadays, or javascript crap loaded from elsewhere.

      tip 1: get a custom hosts file. Some low-risk websites are just "blocked" by messing with DNS entries. This will make some dependencies load rather than time out.
      tip 2: lower your browser's timeouts. It will give up sooner trying to load Facebook's like button, and overall page load times will improve.
      tip 3: get a download accelerator. Those make a huge difference here in China! (with and without VPN)

    3. Re:No by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      trying to log in to https accounts.google.com just to enable IMAP took me TWO HOURS and over TWENTY refresh attempts. eventually enough got into the browser cache for it to take ONLY five minutes for the page to load... but the AJAX-controlled radio button refused to update properly, so i had to repeat the process.

      I sometimes have problems like this even in the states due to the way G+ (and other complex sites like Fb) are architected. If you include a script in a page and it doesn't load then the page just won't work correctly. And loading one page can involve loading dozens of scripts, from a handful of sites. If any of them have a problem then you can have basically any kind of browser problem possible. This is possible even with simple pages. Ever since Slashdot went to https, when my internet connection is heavily loaded I cannot use it at all. If you get 99% of an unencrypted webpage, no big deal. If you get 99% of an encrypted webpage, then the browser replaces all the content you are looking at with an error message when it finally fails to download the entire page.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    4. Re:No by lkcl · · Score: 1

      Well, duh. You shouldn't run VPNs over TCP connections, even on decent networks. You're seeing windowing and retransmission problems caused by TCP. Just use UDP for transport and let the VPN deal with connection control properly.

      UDP was entirely blocked. by "entirely blocked" i mean that the chinese government's "Great Firewall" terminated ALL AND ANY access to ALL ports of the type UDP, to the (fixed) IP address of my server. i had absolutely no choice but to use TCP. 24 hours later the block would be dropped.

      basically what this incredibly rubbish "firewall" does is deep packet inspection, looking for anything that looks like a VPN. but there is so much traffic out there, with *so many* people running VPNs, that they simply can't keep up. so they block only for around 24 hours and then drop the firewall rule.

      by constantly changing from TCP to UDP and constantly changing the port number i was able to avoid this stupid, stupid deep packet inspection.

      a number of people in china run a recompiled version of openvpn, which allows XORing of a fixed pattern at both the client and server end. this also allows avoidance of detection. however i was unable to compile the "hacked-together" version of openvpn so could not use it.

    5. Re:No by lkcl · · Score: 1

      awesome, that's really useful to know, and i've cross-referenced it on the bugreport. thank you.

  10. Re: Nothing "free" about "our" world... by fortfive · · Score: 2

    Still waiting for hitler on ice, too!

  11. You don't want that experience by Balthisar · · Score: 1

    I lived there from 2011 to 2016. You really, really don't want that experience. Even with a VPN it sucked, because half the time the VPN wouldn't work. It's not just that Google is blocked; it's that Google CDN that a lot of sites use is blocked.

    --
    --Jim (me)
  12. Want Not Try? Here is a Chinese proxy server list by david.cowhig · · Score: 2

    There are list of Chinese proxy servers on line. One is http://cn-proxy.com/ You can get it in English by using Google Translate https://translate.google.com/t...

  13. Firefox won't install the plugin by freeze128 · · Score: 1

    If your current version of firefox won't install the plugin, then install an older version of firefox.

  14. Google and social media by shashindk · · Score: 5, Informative

    Currently living in China as an expat and it's surprisingly easy to live with the level of censorship in place here. As mentioned by another, Google CDN is blocked which makes some sites inaccessible. The only google related service I've found to work here is translate.google.cn. The most annoying is aspect is not being able to search for things via Google, but having to rely on Bing or other accessible search engines. Almost all mainstream western social media are blocked, with the exception of LinkedIn which works without any issues. Non-western sites like vk.com seem to work fine. Most international messaging apps are also blocked in China, which isn't much of an issue since everyone here uses WeChat (or Weixin in Chinese) which serves not just as a messaging app and micro blogging service but also as a mobile payment platform with a plethora of integrated serves such as paying your utility bills, ordering taxis, buying train and flight tickets, booking hotels, etc. once you link a Chinese debit or credit card. It also integrates the option to have membership cards and related benefits linked to your WeChat account. That coupled with Skype for work-related video calls should cover most people's needs when here. Some news media (mainly American ones) such as bloomberg, wall street journal and the economist are blocked, while others like financial times, usa today, the washington post and los angeles times works fine. In the cases where you do run into issues, VPN services like ExpressVPN and Astrill VPN does the trick. Just make sure to get them before entering the country. Alternatively get the ExpressVPN plug-in for Chrome if that can cover your needs.

    1. Re:Google and social media by phantomfive · · Score: 1

      Currently living in China as an expat and it's surprisingly easy to live with the level of censorship in place here......... Almost all mainstream western social media are blocked

      Be honest.....that's actually super annoying.

      --
      "First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
    2. Re:Google and social media by Dr.Saeuerlich · · Score: 1

      The problem aren't just blocked sites per se, but all the dependencies Western websites have these days. Without a VPN load times are pretty bad (unless you tweak the browser's timeout values), since most websites include "like buttons" from blocked social media sites.
      Additionally, the Chinese regime tampers with the HTTPS protocol and its certificates. HTTPS either fails more often than it should, or your browser will warn you about dubious certificates.
      And sometimes you still have the good old "connection has been reset" errors, as if it were 2008.

      But yes, if you stay within China's walled garden and stick to domestic services, your technical experience is actually good. Content wise it's a different matter. But I guess as long as my wife can watch her Qing Dynasty soaps in 4k all is well...

    3. Re:Google and social media by shashindk · · Score: 1

      Currently living in China as an expat and it's surprisingly easy to live with the level of censorship in place here......... Almost all mainstream western social media are blocked

      Be honest.....that's actually super annoying.

      Actually, its not. Unless you're a Facebook addicted teenager it really isn't a big deal. I can easily kept contact with my family, friends and co-workers outside of China using email, skype, wechat and iMessage (since all company phones are iPhones), which is honestly the most important thing. Cutting back on social media hasn't been a horrible thing either. After having been here for a year now, I've found myself having a lot more time and I don't miss scrolling through the endless feeds of largely unimportant content, in some sense it's actually been liberating to be unable to access FB and youtube. I still have access to wikipedia, reddit, my local newspapers from back home, the internet radio stations I've been listening to for years, etc. All the top movie titles are still released here in China with english audio / chinese subs at about 8$ for an IMAX ticket. Alien: Covenant, Wonder Woman and Guardian of the Galaxy 2 are some of the movies I've gone to watch here in the last few months (release date somewhat the same as in the west), and older movies I can buy at the local market or online for 3-5$ incl. shipping. The few videogames I play have no problems connecting and VoIP applications like Teamspeak and Discord works fine in China. I'd honestly say that the most annoying thing here is that price discrimination really is a thing and that discounts are usually only offered when using the Chinese version of apps on the phone (e.g. about 30% cheaper to buy a bullet train ticket for Tianjin Beijing via the Chinese version of Ctrip app than the English one as the 5$ booking fee is waived).

  15. Re:Chinternet by 93+Escort+Wagon · · Score: 1

    Given that they're always anonymous postings, it's probably just one unemployed dude.

    --
    #DeleteChrome
  16. Chinese blame us by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    I talk Madarin lessons from a chick in Beijing (via italki.com) using skype. The video is always shit. The HILARIOUS part is that this dumb chinc will blame MY CONNECTION as the problem.

    No Rainy, my 60Mbps cable line is running great to the rest of the world. The shit hole you live in is the issue.

  17. Use FlyVPN by nsxdavid · · Score: 3, Informative

    The FlyVPN service will let you connect to a lot of different servers in China and experience what it's like.

    We use it to test our path out of China for various mobile games as they prepare to launch with our partners in China.

    --
    David Whatley
  18. I have a request by viperidaenz · · Score: 2

    Where do I find a VPN to experience the North Korea intranet?

    1. Re: I have a request by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      0.0.0.0 /dev/null

    2. Re:I have a request by vm146j2 · · Score: 1

      Silly. They find you!

      --
      "Lost time is not found again."
  19. Try surfing the UK in a year or two... by BeCre8iv · · Score: 4, Insightful

    If the pry-minister gets her way.

    --
    This perpetual motion machine Lisa made is a joke, it just keeps getting faster and faster. - Homer
  20. That's not it. by Ihlosi · · Score: 1
    > 0.0.0.0 /dev/null

    There are no praises to the Dearest Leader to be found there.

  21. Sure by aglider · · Score: 1

    Start learning Chinese, first.
    99.999% of Chinese sites are in some Chinese language.
    Then move to China.
    Or ask a Chinese friend to install something like TeamViewer.

    --
    Sent as ripples into the electromagnetic field. No single photon has been harmed in the process.
  22. Re:Just unlucky your router by Big+Hairy+Ian · · Score: 1

    There are plenty of Proxy Servers behind the Great Fire Wall find one

    --

    Build a Man a Fire, and He'll Be Warm for a Day. Set a Man on Fire, and He'll Be Warm for the Rest of His Life.

  23. The great firewall by bool2 · · Score: 1

    #!/bin/sh
    # Chinese Internet Enabler
    sudo iptables -F
    sudo iptables -P OUTPUT -j REJECT

  24. Run a VPN from inside of China by misosoup7 · · Score: 1

    Spin up a VPN server from inside of China. There are plenty of those services and you'll be able to browse as if you are in China.