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Can AI Replace Hospital Radiologists? (cnn.com)

An anonymous reader quotes CNN: Radiologists, who receive years of training and are some of the highest paid doctors, are among the first physicians who will have to adapt as artificial intelligence expands into health care... Today radiologists face a deluge of data as they serve patients. When Jim Brink, radiologist in chief at Massachusetts General Hospital, entered the field in the late 1980s, radiologists had to examine 20 to 50 images for CT and PET scans. Now, there can be as many as 1,000 images for one scan. The work can be tedious, making it prone to error. The added imagery also makes it harder for radiologists to use their time efficiently... The remarkable power of today's computers has raised the question of whether humans should even act as radiologists. Geoffrey Hinton, a legend in the field of artificial intelligence, went so far as to suggest that schools should stop training radiologists.
X-rays, CT scans, MRIs, ultrasounds and PET scans do improve patient care -- but they also drive up costs. And now one medical imaging startup can read a heart MRI in 15 seconds, a procedure which takes a human 45 minutes. Massachusetts General Hospital is already assembling data to train algorithms to spot 25 common scenarios. But Brinks predicts that ultimately AI will become more of a sophisticated diagnostic aid, flagging images that humans should examine more closely, while leaving radiologists with more time for interacting with patients and medical staff.

19 of 112 comments (clear)

  1. An AI isn't smart by itself. by Z00L00K · · Score: 3, Interesting

    An AI is only as good as the people that have taught it. Of course it can accumulate experience and never forget, but humans also have a thing called intuition to see things in a different view and capture things that are completely new.

    Humans and AI will however supplement each other for improved accuracy.

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    1. Re:An AI isn't smart by itself. by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 3, Interesting

      An AI is only as good as the people that have taught it.

      Humans don't "teach" it. It learns directly from raw data.

      humans also have a thing called intuition

      That was also used to explain why computers couldn't play chess or Go as well as humans. Intuition is just pattern recognition.

      Humans and AI will however supplement each other for improved accuracy.

      It will start out that way. But later, humans will be removed from the process when it is clear that they just add cost, delay, and errors.

    2. Re:An AI isn't smart by itself. by HuguesT · · Score: 3, Insightful

      No it learn from *annotated* data. That is data where a human, most probably a doctor, told the system what to look for. Good quality annotated data is scarce and expensive to get and that is the #1 problem in AI research.

    3. Re:An AI isn't smart by itself. by ceoyoyo · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Emergencies are even more reason to have a computer do the reading. The computer works 24/7, with at least 99% uptime. The human? Not so much. I work with radiologists. They're wonderfully trained. But they can only know so much, make mistakes, and want to go home to their families. They ignore or don't hear their pagers sometimes. Computers don't.

    4. Re:An AI isn't smart by itself. by ceoyoyo · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Not so much anymore. Unsupervised pretraining lets the machine learn from unlabelled data. Most of the labels actually come from the followup. Did that patient have a brain tumor? You don't ask the radiologist, you ask the pathologist.

  2. Time, or money? by K.+S.+Kyosuke · · Score: 2

    And now one medical imaging startup can read a heart MRI in 15 seconds, a procedure which takes a human 45 minutes.

    That's quite nice that you save 44.75 minutes, but isn't kind of more interesting how much money you save? Save for emergency situations, waiting an hour usually isn't a problem in US medicine. Even 45 minutes of CPU/GPU time is going to be cheaper than 45 minutes of human time.

    --
    Ezekiel 23:20
    1. Re:Time, or money? by ceoyoyo · · Score: 4, Informative

      It costs about $500 for an hour long MRI, including the tech to run the scanner. We used to joke that the radiologists made $250 for sticking a film up on the screen (that was fifteen years ago or so). They're a little slower now, but they can still read most scans in closer to five minutes than half an hour.

      * Figures may vary in crazy parts of the world, such as the USA.

    2. Re: Time, or money? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

      I'm a radiologist.

      Radiologists manage the electromagnetic & ultrasound spectra for the benefit of patients. We help make sure your test is both useful and safe. MRIs used fields 30-60,000x as powerful as the Earth's field and RF energy for your scan. If you've ever seen foil in a microwave or a rail gun, you could imagine what could go wrong. We decide what kind of test you should get (many options here, types of MRI sequences, radiotracers for nuclear medicine scans, using IV contrast) to best inform your other doctors based on your medical history and we perform image-guided procedures expertly because we understand the imaging better than anyone. We minimize your radiation dose by adjusting & modifying protocols, protect your kidneys from unnecessary IV contrast, and consult w/ your surgeon to help them plan your care - not to mention research better imaging techniques. Interpreting images is an important part of our jobs, but keeping you safe and your other doctors well-informed are a big part of what we do today, and will probably do into the future. At the point that radiologists are completely unnecessary, you'll have terminators taking many people's jobs.

    3. Re: Time, or money? by jemmyw · · Score: 2

      The headline is clickbait. But radiologists could use AI to analyze the images faster and better. For example, I imagine there might be interesting results if you used a training set that was not "images that radiologists have flagged" but "images of patients who then later developed a disease" to see if it comes up with some unknown analysis.

    4. Re: Time, or money? by TheMeuge · · Score: 2

      Doctors and nurses account for less than 10% of healthcare costs put together. But I agree with you, I think YOUR doctors should be replaced with Google as quickly as possible.

  3. Yes. by 0100010001010011 · · Score: 2

    flagging images that humans should examine more closely

    That's exactly how it's going to work. You could train a 5 year old to determine if an image showed scenario A or B. It's just fancy chicken sexing. Anything that is decisively A or B gets labeled as such. Images that are questionable get passed on to Level 2, the Human.

    Then you re-train the network, rinse repeat.

    1. Re:Yes. by gweihir · · Score: 2

      Retraining is subject to pretty strongly diminishing returns. Also, the human experts spend only a small part of their time on the simple things, because they see at a glance what is going on. They do spend most of their time on the tricky stuff and that is not accessible to weak AI anytime soon, if ever. And strong AI is not even on the very distant horizon, and may never become available.

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  4. No, AI can not by perpenso · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Can AI Replace Hospital Radiologists?

    No, AI can not. What AI can do is be an extremely valuable tool for radiologists and doctors, one that makes analyzing all the various forms of synthetic medical imagery more accurate, and most likely increasing their productivity. It can reduce oversights and errors, but it won't be able to fully replace expert human analysis for quite some time. Like most AI solutions it will most likely take far longer than AI experts predict. Perhaps we need an AI to predict timeframe for AI solutions since people seem to do that poorly. :-)

    Does this perhaps lead to reducing the number of radiologists due to increased productivity? Probably not, more likely radiologists will be bombarded with more imagery to analyze as technology improves and costs lower and is more frequently used.

  5. AI by 110010001000 · · Score: 2

    Image recognition is not AI. Sorry.

  6. Can any high-skill profession be replaced? by ErichTheRed · · Score: 2

    I think most routine radiology could end up at least being assisted by AI, given that the entire practice revolves around using imaging techniques that return incomplete data and making a judgement call. This is the sort of thing machine learning is good at -- reading billions of images and determining what something looks like. Real radiologists in training do the same thing -- except they have a much smaller data set to fall back on.

    The real question is how we're going to deal with the sudden flip in what is considered a highly-skilled job:
    - Doctors in general are a perfect example - because the supply of medical school slots is kept low, only the people with perfect grades and photographic memories, _and_ who can ace the MCAT get into med school (in the US.) If machine learning becomes a thing, then having a photographic memory is not going to be as important as it once was...it's already less important.
    - The Bar Association didn't limit the amount of law school slots the way the AMA does, and the result today is that law school grads can't find work. Just 20 years ago, having a law degree would definitely get you a job, and having a Top 14 law degree would set you up for life permanently. Law is a profession that relies on interpreting vast amounts of data, and computers are really good at the routine parts of the job that junior associates used to make $180K a year doing.
    - From the non-professions, another example is air traffic controllers. Even with computers aiding them, humans who have the unique ability to think natively in 3 dimensions and keep an entire sector of airspace's inhabitants in their brains along with their speed, altitude and heading have been doing it for ages. It takes years of training to understand and definitely qualifies in my book as a highly skilled job. They make a lot of money because few people have the ability to do it and keep their stress levels non-lethal. But, it also sounds like something computers could take over eventually.

  7. Re: Radiologists won't be the only ones. by gweihir · · Score: 2

    Don't worry. I recently had a chance to talk to some Watson people from IBM, and while they see excellent potential for supporting experts in diverse fields, the answer as to replacing experts was "not in the next 50 years". That is pretty extreme, as they really know what the state-of-the-art is.

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  8. Hell no. by sethstorm · · Score: 2

    There will always be things that the AI will miss.

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  9. Second Opinion... by Paul+Fernhout · · Score: 2

    Siri, do you concur with Watson?

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  10. social responsibility by bigtreeman · · Score: 2

    Programmers should have a duty of social responsibility
    to not develop AI which will eventually replace any worker.
    The easiest person to replace is an AI developer.

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