Slashdot Mirror


Disney Facing VFX Firm's Injunction Bid on Three Blockbuster Films (hollywoodreporter.com)

From a report: 'Guardians of the Galaxy,' 'Avengers: Age of Ultron' and 'Beauty and the Beast' are now under the microscope for use of facial capture technology. Upping the stakes over a technology called "performance motion capture," Rearden LLC is going after The Walt Disney Company in a lawsuit filed this week. The plaintiff, a firm incubated by Silicon Valley entrepreneur Steve Perlman, is demanding an injunction prohibiting Disney from distributing Guardians of the Galaxy, Avengers: Age of Ultron and Beauty and the Beast. The new lawsuit comes a year after Rearden scored a startling injunction against two Chinese firms that purchased allegedly stolen technology known as MOVA, which was being licensed by Digital Domain 3.0. At the time, some legal observers were reading the ruling as notice to Hollywood studios that the facial motion capture technology was out of play. According to Rearden's latest lawsuit in California federal court, Disney didn't listen. "Disney used the stolen MOVA Contour systems and methods, made derivative works, and reproduced, distributed, performed, and displayed at least Guardians of the Galaxy, Avengers: Age of Ultron, and Beauty and the Beast, in knowing or willfully blind violation of Rearden Mova LLC's intellectual property rights."

25 of 95 comments (clear)

  1. Messed up IP laws by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    America deserves what it's going to get. Since when does using a program grant the author of said programs rights on works produced by said program? Sure, maybe Disney is liable for using unlicensed copy(ies), in which case they need to be penalized for doing so - according to the number of unlicensed copies used. However the author does not automatically acquire rights on original works produced with said program. The author of a word processor does not get royalties on the book you wrote, the owner of a paint gun does not get royalties on the building you painted and the inventor of a car does not get a share of the prize you won in the stock car race. Of course in America, everything is different. So I expect American courts to fuck up IP law even further, so that the whole world can be fucked into one party suing the other party forever and nothing ever getting done.

    1. Re:Messed up IP laws by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      But Disney MADE those IP laws so dumb. They should reap the whirlwind.

    2. Re:Messed up IP laws by thaylin · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Who says they are claiming any ownership rights? They are getting an injunction from them using their technologies to create the film, until they are paid for their use of the technologies. this is no different then you creating a processor and me putting putting it in computers and selling those computers.

      I am typically critical of IP laws but this seems pretty cut and dry.

      To use your analogy:

      "The author of a word processor does not get royalties on the book you wrote"

      If the word processor application was stolen then the author would be liable for theft and the works he written possibly not sell able until that is settled.

      --
      When you cant win, ad hominem.
    3. Re:Messed up IP laws by jedidiah · · Score: 4, Interesting

      No. They are trying to hijack the ownership rights of works created using software. If this passes legal muster, the implications are very ugly. Like "copyrights on APIs" kind of ugly.

      --
      A Pirate and a Puritan look the same on a balance sheet.
    4. Re:Messed up IP laws by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Informative

      There is no such thing as IP law. There are copyright, patents and trademark laws. Which is it? The 3 of these laws have nothing to do with each other.

    5. Re: Messed up IP laws by guruevi · · Score: 4, Interesting

      There is also contract law. If the contract between two businesses states that the company should get royalties or attribution for works produced by the software, then it's entirely possible that they are due royalties and an injunction against further distribution/sales would be possible.

      This is entirely possible under e.g. Creative Commons. Let's say you license something under Creative Commons with Attribution and Disney uses your work without attribution, you would have the right to ask a judge to pull all media (DVD, BluRay etc) and rework it so they put your name in the credits.

      --
      Custom electronics and digital signage for your business: www.evcircuits.com
    6. Re:Messed up IP laws by rogoshen1 · · Score: 4, Informative

      This. Exactly this. It couldn't have happened to a nicer company.

    7. Re:Messed up IP laws by Dunbal · · Score: 2

      I lent my pen to Bob and you stole the pen from Bob now every check you sign with that pen belongs to me. Yup, makes sense (shaking my head)...

      --
      Seven puppies were harmed during the making of this post.
    8. Re: Messed up IP laws by Dunbal · · Score: 2

      If the contract between two businesses states that the company should get royalties or attribution for works produced by the software, then it's entirely possible that they are due royalties

      You can't have a contract with someone and hope to enforce that contract on the 3rd party. Otherwise let's you and me sign a contract right now saying that any money earned by any of your neighbors is mine forever. Rearden LLC had a licensing agreement with one or more Chinese firms. Disney might have "borrowed" software from said Chinese firms. Said Chinese firms might even be liable TO DISNEY for not warning Disney about their arrangement with Rearden LLC. Disney never made any arrangements with Rearden LLC. Rearden LLC can go after the Chinese firms to try to enforce said contract. GOOD LUCK enforcing it with Disney.

      --
      Seven puppies were harmed during the making of this post.
    9. Re:Messed up IP laws by Daetrin · · Score: 2

      Are they? IANAL, but my understanding is that one of the intent of injunctions is to get companies to pay legal expenses in some way related to the thing the injunction is against. It doesn't _necessarily_ claim that Rearden owns a portion of the films, it may only be to prevent Disney from continuing to profit from them until they have paid the fees they should have originally paid to Rearden for the use of the software, plus some kind of legal penalty (especially if the violation is egregious as Rearden claims.)

      Unfortunately TFA isn't very clear on exactly what they're asking for. "Besides an injunction, Rearden also demands actual damages and profits attributed to infringement." "Profits" could be anything from the standard licensing fee (whatever that is) to a few percent from the box office.

      --
      This Space Intentionally Left Blank
    10. Re:Messed up IP laws by Registered+Coward+v2 · · Score: 5, Insightful

      No. They are trying to hijack the ownership rights of works created using software. If this passes legal muster, the implications are very ugly. Like "copyrights on APIs" kind of ugly.

      Not really. They are saying Disney used a stolen device to produce those works and thus they are not entitled to distribute any of the resulting products. They don't claim to own the product, just that Disney should not be allowed to benefit from their actions until the issue is resolved. To use a car analogy, If I get a sale Ford fender stamping machine and started to sell fenders Ford would get an injunction to stop that. Just because this is a software product doesn't make the idea any different.

      --
      I'm a consultant - I convert gibberish into cash-flow.
    11. Re: Messed up IP laws by Registered+Coward+v2 · · Score: 2

      If the contract between two businesses states that the company should get royalties or attribution for works produced by the software, then it's entirely possible that they are due royalties

      You can't have a contract with someone and hope to enforce that contract on the 3rd party. Otherwise let's you and me sign a contract right now saying that any money earned by any of your neighbors is mine forever. Rearden LLC had a licensing agreement with one or more Chinese firms. Disney might have "borrowed" software from said Chinese firms. Said Chinese firms might even be liable TO DISNEY for not warning Disney about their arrangement with Rearden LLC. Disney never made any arrangements with Rearden LLC. Rearden LLC can go after the Chinese firms to try to enforce said contract. GOOD LUCK enforcing it with Disney.

      Except Rearden is claiming Disney knew the machine may have been stolen, based on previous contracts with Reardon, and still used it; so they should have been aware of the contractual agreements and thus acted in bad faith.

      --
      I'm a consultant - I convert gibberish into cash-flow.
    12. Re: Messed up IP laws by Dunbal · · Score: 2

      Still doesn't give Rearden a cut of Disney's movie income. How much is a license for the software? OK. We'll pay that. Sorry.

      --
      Seven puppies were harmed during the making of this post.
    13. Re: Messed up IP laws by Miamicanes · · Score: 2

      No, because you still have the bricks.

      It's more like going out of your way to make your house look cool & unique, then having your neighbor copy it brick-for-brick, simultaneously making YOUR house look like a tacky clone AND devaluing it in the process.

      Infringement isn't theft. Infringement is infringement. Its closest legal analogue is trespass.

      That said, the US has *radically* expanded the scope of IP law over the past 50 years, and much of that expansion has been at the specific behest of Disney. So on one hand... they deserve it. On the other hand, a Disney defeat will ultimately make things even worse for everyone. The ideal, delicious irony would be for Disney to have to spend millions overturning a bad law they caused in the first place. My guess: if the plaintiff is remotely willing to be reasonable, Disney will suck it up, settle out of court, and view it off as an investment in preserving a law they might want to use in the future.

    14. Re:Messed up IP laws by Gadget_Guy · · Score: 3, Insightful

      They are trying to hijack the ownership rights of works created using software.

      Just repeating the claim doesn't make it right. Even if the injunction succeeds and monetary damages are awarded, the ownership of the films will still be in the clutches of Disney. Disney owns the films, it is just that they won't be able to distribute them (temporarily).

      If this passes legal muster, the implications are very ugly. Like "copyrights on APIs" kind of ugly.

      No, this isn't a precedent-setting case. It is quite normal for injunctions preventing the sale of offending products to be sought during legal cases.

    15. Re:Messed up IP laws by drinkypoo · · Score: 2

      If you get a cheap used Ford fender stamping die, you are well within your legal rights to use it (along with your own stamping machine) to make sloppy-ass new fenders from that worn-out die. You're not free to use the other die that they use to stamp their logo onto the fender without their permission, because of trademark and copyright law, but you're explicitly allowed to make copies of automobile parts so long as they are not protected by patent and if they sell you the die, then the die is yours.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    16. Re: Messed up IP laws by msauve · · Score: 3, Informative

      "You can't have a contract with someone and hope to enforce that contract on the 3rd party. "

      They don't need to. It's a case of infringement. If I have the patent to a process and equipment to implement that process, you might contract for a license limited to using that process and equipment to produce your own products.

      If a third party borrows or steals that equipment from you and makes use of it without a license, they are infringing and any product they produce with it is tainted.

      --
      "National Security is the chief cause of national insecurity." - Celine's First Law
    17. Re:Messed up IP laws by Joviex · · Score: 2

      they are not entitled to distribute any of the resulting products

      If I steal a hammer and use it to build a house, the extent of punishment for stealing the hammer is a year or so in jail and/or paying for the hammer plus a fine. Home Depot can't tear down the house or stop people from living in it.

      You also cannot compare a widely used, generic tool i.e. hammer with something that is unique, i.e. proprietary software, that is not easy to access or available to joe public, thus rendering your cute analogy moot.

      Disney stole. They knew they stole. They made the IP laws around this very topic. They deserve everything they get.

  2. Isn't this how Hollywood got it's start? by rsilvergun · · Score: 3, Informative

    move outside the reach of copyright and film film film.

    --
    Hi! I make Firefox Plug-ins. Check 'em out @ https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/youtube-mp3-podcaster/
  3. Karma by imrahilj · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Is it wrong that I feel amused that this is happening to Disney, after all Disney has done to ruin copyright law?

    1. Re:Karma by johannesg · · Score: 2

      Is it wrong that I feel amused that this is happening to Disney, after all Disney has done to ruin copyright law?

      It's schadenfreude, and that is a perfectly legitimate form of entertainment.

  4. complicated... by Goldsmith · · Score: 5, Interesting

    The Hollywood Reporter has done a series of good articles on this... worth searching through what's been reported over the last year, it's amazing. There's a mysteriously killed Chinese billionaire, a Silicon Valley inventor giving away his IP because he thinks it's worthless (and it was worthless until the Oscar won by the guys using it), and a ton of extremely shady lawyers.

    Both Perlman and LaSalle have been screwed over here, and they both deserve some of the blame for this. Neither one appears to have understood how to commercialize the technology. They were good friends, but they were not able to separate the ups and downs of friendship from their business relationship.

    1. Re:complicated... by Zontar_Thing_From_Ve · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Both Perlman and LaSalle have been screwed over here, and they both deserve some of the blame for this. Neither one appears to have understood how to commercialize the technology. They were good friends, but they were not able to separate the ups and downs of friendship from their business relationship.

      Thanks for that info that the Hollywood Reporter has a series on this (I didn't quote that part of your post to save space). Yeah, from reading the article this seemed to me to be more about spillover from the Perlman vs. LaSalle case than "Disney stole my stuff because they are EVIL!" Disney has a really good legal team so my guess is that Perlman gets paid off, but nowhere near close to what he thinks he'll get, and everything is resolved confidentially. Probably won't be in his best interests to fight this in court and potentially end up with a ruling that he doesn't own squat and on top of that he just ran up a gigantic legal bill.

  5. Chain of Custody is a Mess by Orne · · Score: 5, Informative

    The claim is Rearden, LLC (Pearlman) invents the MOVA technology, and licenses it to Digital Domain Media Group (DDMG). Pearlman hires LaSalle and become friends, but the MOVA technology doesn't quite catch on in the VFX world. In 2012, DDMG goes bankrupt, and reforms out of bankruptcy in China as Digital Domain Holdings Limited (DDHL).

    Pearlman moved MOVA to OnLive Inc., declared it bankrupt, and moved the tech ownership to OL2 (a holding company operated by Lauder). In 2012, one of the Rearden partners (LaSalle) wanted to sell the technology to DDHL claiming Rearden wasn't doing anything with it. Lauder sells MOVA to Lauder Partners, who sells it to LaSalle's company MO2 LLC. DDHL instead arranged for MOVA to be sold from MO2 to SHST (Chinese subsidiary of DDHL), who licensed the technology back to DD3 (American subsidiary of DDHL). LaSalle then goes to work for DD3.

    In 2015, DD3 sells the MOVA service to Disney. Disney uses the technology in several live-action movies and makes a crap-ton of money. Pearlman now claims whaa? and reforms as Rearden MOVA, claming that they still own the tech. Pearlman claims that LaSalle violated his contract's inventions agreement by selling intellectual property owned by the parent company.

    In 2015, SHST attempts to preemptively sue Rearden that it has the rights to MOVA, and Rearden should stop using the name. Meanwhile they transfer MOVA to Virtue Global Holdings Limited (VGH, subsidiary of DDHL). In court, SHST/VGH fails to provide documentation that they owned the software, are counter-sued, and lose; VGH and SSTL are told to stop claming they own the software. DDHL later comes under investigation by Chinese regulators for creating a ton of shell companies to hide profits from the Chinese government.

    Rearden claims that
    1) they have the rights to MOVA, not DDHL,
    2) that DDHL violated software export laws and shouldn't have been allowed to sell MOVA to SHST in the first place,
    3) that DD3 didn't have the rights to license the MOVA technology to Disney, and
    4) Disney owes a share of their revenue to Reardon MOVA, the parent of Reardon, LLC.

    The only thing clear to me is that all of the parties involved are playing the "Hollywood profit hiding" game of creating shell companies to change who declares the revenues, moving profits among the shell companies, then declaring them bankrupt.

  6. Re:Chain of Custody is a Mess -- OnLine by Orne · · Score: 2

    Interesting. This is the same Steve Pearlman who invented QuickTime and WebTV.

    OnLive Inc. was a cloud-based gaming platform around 2009, that users could play full versions of games, but required dedicated hardware per users on the server side. They never got the costs down before it folded.

    Apparently the "declared it bankrupt" involved a legal loophole calld Assignment for the Benefit of Creditors that absolved Perlman of any debt responsibilities by transferring ownership to Lauder Partners. Employees were essentially terminated without pay, with some rehired by the new firm headed by Gary Lauder. Lauder would soon fire Perlman, who would return to his incubator company Rearden Labs to invent DIDO/pCell (under the name Artemis).

    So, if one could prove that MOVA was truly an asset of OnLive, then Rearden's argument falls apart, since that asset would have been transferred in the bankruptcy assignment. I assume the courts could not prove this.