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Quantum Particles In Motion Can Still Travel Backwards (phys.org)

Quantum particles have a unique ability to travel in the opposite direction from their momentum. Or, as slew (Slashdot reader #2,918) puts it, "When pushed, quantum particles can fight back." slew writes: Who knew quantum particles were passive aggressive? It's subtle, but researchers "have shown that 'backflow' can always occur, even if a force is acting on the quantum particle while it travels. The backflow effect is the result of wave-particle duality and the probabilistic nature of quantum mechanics..."

Dr Daniela Cadamuro, Researcher at the Technical University of Munich, said "The backflow effect in quantum mechanics has been known for quite a while, but it has always been discussed in regards to 'free' quantum particles, i.e., no external forces are acting on the particle."

59 comments

  1. Zitterbewegung by Roger+W+Moore · · Score: 3, Informative

    It's been known for quite a while longer than the article suggests for relativistic particles. Zitterbewegung (which is German for trembling motion) was first suggested in 1930 by Schrodinger.

    1. Re:Zitterbewegung by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      They do that because they are jealous of you and because they wish could be like you.

    2. Re:Zitterbewegung by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      you sound bitter, honey bunny

    3. Re:Zitterbewegung by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Previously, scientists were only aware of this movement in "free" quantum particles, where no force is acting on them.

      Critical information is summarily related (usually near the beginning) by journalists who understand how to appropriately convey information to executive readers. If you don't compel me to read in the first paragraph, don't bother checking my attendance (web metrics or otherwise).

    4. Re:Zitterbewegung by __aaclcg7560 · · Score: 0

      They do that because they are jealous of you and because they wish could be like you.

      Is that you, ls671?

    5. Re:Zitterbewegung by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Why don't you bite me and taste how bitter I am.

    6. Re:Zitterbewegung by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      no need, tasted your mother, bitter indeed

    7. Re:Zitterbewegung by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And the 2006 Black MacBook.

    8. Re:Zitterbewegung by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "I really these assholes stop pasting my name all over Slashdot."

      You really what?

      "I hit the submit button too soon. "

      No shit. Could you wait a week between each submission? We'd be grateful!

    9. Re:Zitterbewegung by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I got a Black Amazon Dot, which matches my vintage 2006 Black MacBook.

      I hit the submit button too soon...

      What he means is that he forgot to click on "post as AC".

      So here we have the proof. creimer says he never posts as AC but it is obviously a lie. cremier chats with himself all day long on /., simulating fights with trolls in order to post more link spam.

      The message creimer posted above has been posted on /. at least a zillion times, obviously by creimer, as AC.

    10. Re:Zitterbewegung by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You sound bitter, bro

    11. Re:Zitterbewegung by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You sound autistic, jack

    12. Re:Zitterbewegung by Roger+W+Moore · · Score: 4, Interesting

      For relativistic quantum mechanics, the interactions are quantized too and you have to integrate over all possible interactions to get the total effect. The Feynman diagrams for these will include a free-particle Dirac term which should contain Zitterbewegung. I'd be amazed if some theorist has not already done and shown this years ago unless it was regarded as too obvious a result to worry about.

    13. Re:Zitterbewegung by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      your mother tasted the same way

    14. Re: Zitterbewegung by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You hit the submit button to soon, meaning you forgot to hit post as AC. We knew it was you posting these affiliate links as an AC. Now you just outed yourself.

      Mods?

    15. Re:Zitterbewegung by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Was pretty sure that was you, and that you'd fuck up sooner or later.

      ROFLMAO.

    16. Re:Zitterbewegung by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Its obvious which is why no one mentioned it.

  2. How is this remotely news? by goombah99 · · Score: 1

    Why is this on slashdot? how did it pass the firehose?

    --
    Some drink at the fountain of knowledge. Others just gargle.
    1. Re:How is this remotely news? by BarbaraHudson · · Score: 1

      Well, maybe it's a side effect. You know, to an observer, traveling backwards in space may appear to be traveling forward in space as they travel backward in time. So the more you push against these articles, the more will appear. Moral of the story? Don't feed the time trolls :-)

      Now where's my Tardis?

      --
      "Transparent" is a shit show that trades on every stereotype going. A man in drag is NOT a transsexual.
    2. Re:How is this remotely news? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      your a doosh

    3. Re: How is this remotely news? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Douche *

    4. Re:How is this remotely news? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Why is your name "goombah99"? how did it pass the "moronic racist internet handle" filter?

      In any case as a tech site I would think Slashdot is a good fit for this. Imagine a backpropagation algorithm that utilizes time travel!

      Is that a legitimate use for this theory? Well, let's ask ourselves - are you a legitimate use of the natural resources it takes to sustain your existence?

    5. Re:How is this remotely news? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Why is your name "goombah99"? How did it pass the "idiotic racist internet handle" filter?

      This is a tech site, so I would think this type of news is a good fit. Imagine a backpropagation algorithm that uses "time travel" for solving problems with computational complexity exceeding what is currently feasible with artificial neural networks.

      Is that a legitimate application of this theory? Well, are you a legitimate application of the natural resources it takes to sustain your existence?

    6. Re: How is this remotely news? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      your an idjit

    7. Re:How is this remotely news? by __aaclcg7560 · · Score: 0

      In any case as a tech site I would think Slashdot is a good fit for this. Imagine a backpropagation algorithm that utilizes time travel!

      One of my favorite James P. Hogan novel was "Thrice Upon A Time", where an engineer develops a computer that send email forward or backward in time. Whenever an email got send backward in time, it reset the timeline at the point where the email got received. The story got reset three times before the engineer decides to leave it alone.

    8. Re:How is this remotely news? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      shutup nigger

    9. Re:How is this remotely news? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Current site owner is just milking Slashdot for whatever they can until it finally succumbs to death. Many users, including those who regularly checked firehose, submitted articles, etc, don't bother with Slashdot anymore. Personally, I stopped logging in years ago, and rarely post anything of any real value. There are far better sites, such as ARS for meaningful discussion. Heck, even Reddit has far more value.

      Occasionally one comes across an interesting story and/or comments on here, but is increasingly rare as Slashdot circles the drain. Shame, since this was the place back in the day. Keep hoping the current owner will do a revamp of both the site and those who operate it, but that would require a real commitment they've seemingly not shown to date.

    10. Re:How is this remotely news? by __aaclcg7560 · · Score: 1, Troll

      Occasionally one comes across an interesting story and/or comments on here, but is increasingly rare as Slashdot circles the drain.

      Back in the beginning, a link to my website got 3,000 clicks in a day

      Ten years ago, a link to my website got 300 clicks in a day.

      Today, a link to my website gets 30 clicks in a day.

      If it wasn't for the trolls keeping me amused, I would have left a long time ago.

    11. Re:How is this remotely news? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It couldn't be that your stupid website is boring, uninteresting, and poorly laid out. It's everyone else's fault. You narcissistic sociopath.

    12. Re:How is this remotely news? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      you sound bitter, bro

    13. Re:How is this remotely news? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You sound autistic, sis

    14. Re: How is this remotely news? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      More affiliate link spam by our resident APK Creimer. Keep it up Creimer, that .25 cents per book sold is really brining the doe in.

  3. Serious psychology by Okian+Warrior · · Score: 1, Insightful

    There's some serious psychology behind some of the slashdot trolls.

    There's the "always make a post and simply contradict" types, there's the "spread fake anecdotes about the poster" types, there's the "talk about the poster behind his back" types(*), and there's the "simply post an insult" types, there's "take the argument to a ridiculous extremes" types, and "associate the argument with racism/homophobia/whatever" types ("that argument is racist!").

    Around the time of election there wasn't a lot of thought put into these responses, it was just a lot of "no it isn't" and "you're a jerk" types of responses.

    Since that time they've become a lot more strategic and well targeted.

    They're using this particular tactic on you because their reading of your personality type indicates that it'll get you angry. They probably tried other types and found them ineffective.

    I don't know for certain what their end goal is, but it's probably to chase you away from the site. If every time you post you get angry, you'll soon associate slashdot with anger and eventually say "why bother?".

    Posting your views - saying you wish they wouldn't do that - only confirms to them that the tactic is working.

    (*) Post as if two other slashdot readers are discussing the poster behind his back, as in "that's just Creimer, no one here likes him". I believe that one is particularly well-crafted, and will cause an emotional response in just about anyone.

    1. Re:Serious psychology by __aaclcg7560 · · Score: 1, Offtopic

      There's the "always make a post and simply contradict" types, there's the "spread fake anecdotes about the poster" types, there's the "talk about the poster behind his back" types(*), and there's the "simply post an insult" types, there's "take the argument to a ridiculous extremes" types, and "associate the argument with racism/homophobia/whatever" types ("that argument is racist!").

      I supposedly have 10+ user accounts to argue with myself.

      They're using this particular tactic on you because their reading of your personality type indicates that it'll get you angry.

      I'm not angry. I'm amused by this attention and the traffic it drives to my websites. If the trolls left me alone, I would have been gone months ago. Now that they proven the value of Slashdot, I'm here to stay and make my half-cents.

    2. Re:Serious psychology by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      you sound bitter, sis

    3. Re:Serious psychology by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I mean, if you were an overweight middle-aged kissless virgin living in a tiny studio apartment that smelled of failure and dried sperm, wouldn't you prefer the fantasy life?

      Oh stop. The smell of sperm spilled in vain is making me so horny.

    4. Re:Serious psychology by bill_mcgonigle · · Score: 1

      Back before leaking culture, AC used to be a valuable feature. Now five nines of AC posts are people who don't feel like logging in or trolls.

      I guess the analytics shows they don't run adblockers. It's too bad Slash doesn't have cookie-based shadowban based on downmods though.

      --
      My God, it's Full of Source!
      OUTSIDE_IP=$(dig +short my.ip @outsideip.net)
    5. Re:Serious psychology by Maritz · · Score: 1

      All I've noticed about this guy is weird fucking anecdotes that have no relation to the conversation, and endless affiliate link spam. Better add that to your list. And the host files guy. Fucking bizarre.

      --
      I do not want your cheap brainburning drugs. They are useless for work. And I am a working man today.
    6. Re:Serious psychology by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Wait, you're suppsoed to have multiple accounts controlled by one person when you argue with yourself on Slashdot?

      I've been doing it backwards all these years! Why didn't anyone tell me? I blame you Anonymous Coward... jerk.

  4. Poor parenting. by fahrbot-bot · · Score: 2

    When pushed, quantum particles can fight back.

    I teach my quantum particles to use their words ...

    --
    It must have been something you assimilated. . . .
  5. Not that I'd understand the answer.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    ..but would this cause a problem with Black Hole theory?

    Since (common?) theory is that no matter can escape once it's beyond the event horizon, would this effect mean that a Black Hole may be actually ejecting matter backwards by the same forces that are trying to keep it from leaving?

  6. Improbability drive? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Probably!

  7. Could this explain the EM drive test results by n2hightech · · Score: 1

    If you can have reverse flow with forward momentum seems like a way to explain the impossibility of a force being produced without a change in momentum. If you think about it other conservation laws are not violated in an EM drive. Energy is converted from electromagnetic to kinetic energy. When an electron in an atom absorbs a photon its speed and direction is changed however the electron must interact with something else like its atom to keep momentum constant. However if you allow reverse flow when everything else is positive the effect could cancel the momentum change of the atom. This is way to complex for me however seems there may be a loophole in the law of conservation of momentum.

  8. This is always interesting to read about. by Sqreater · · Score: 1

    It fascinates me, "quantum weirdness." I think it comes from quantum particles oscillating between a thin space and a thick space form. Thin space being space as we think of it, and thick space being what we call particles. When the thin-space collapses back to particle density it can do so at any point in the thin-space form probabilistically. Does the wave express this oscillation between densities? If the thin space collapses back to particle form on the other side of a barrier we would have "quantum tunneling." It thin space form collapses down to particle form behind where it was before, there would be backward motion.

    I'm not qualified to have these thoughts, so be aware of that. Still, it seems simple, and somehow satisfying to contemplate. At least to me. Space as matter, and matter as space. One thing from the big bang. E=Space=MC^2. Energy being a manifestation of a space density change.

    --
    E Proelio Veritas.
    1. Re:This is always interesting to read about. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'm not qualified to have these thoughts,

      Nobody is.

    2. Re:This is always interesting to read about. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Mod parent and GP up. -PCP

  9. about time by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Maybe they jumped the shark.

  10. Quantum Mystery Cult? by jandersen · · Score: 1

    I'm not disputing the science of this, but articles like this one are really just pushing the cult of the "Quantum Mystery". QM is difficult to understand intuitively, not because it is a deep mystery, but because it involves a lot of very hard mathematics - functional analysis, Hilbert- and Banach spaces, Lie theory and so on, not to mention measure theory and Lebesgue integrals; and that is before you even attempt to involve relativity in any form. Unfortunately this has led to the rise of a sort of Quantum Priethood, that preach a sort of nonsense quasi religion to people who like to think they get it. It is a real shame, because it taints QM with a whiff of sillyness that probably puts a number of intelligent, young students off, who would have loved the challenge of learning the maths, but are too realistic to want to play at mysteries.

  11. True by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Obviously true. Its the nature of QM, one of the most basic principles and over many years I have tried to exploit this and have not found a good application yet.

  12. We're in a simulation by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    You all know it's true. Everything we do at the quantum level seems like the typical "rules" just don't matter. I.e. - this is the base layer of the simulation.