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Norway, the Country Where No Salaries Are Secret (bbc.com)
In Norway, there are no such secrets. Anyone can find out how much anyone else is paid -- and it rarely causes problems. From a report: In the past, your salary was published in a book. A list of everyone's income, assets and the tax they had paid, could be found on a shelf in the public library. These days, the information is online, just a few keystrokes away. The change happened in 2001, and it had an instant impact. "It became pure entertainment for many," says Tom Staavi, a former economics editor at the national daily, VG. "At one stage you would automatically be told what your Facebook friends had earned, simply by logging on to Facebook. It was getting ridiculous." Transparency is important, Staavi says, partly because Norwegians pay high levels of income tax -- an average of 40.2 percent compared to 33.3 percent in the UK, according to Eurostat, while the EU average is just 30.1 percent. "When you pay that much you have to know that everyone else is doing it, and you have to know that the money goes to something reasonable," he says. "We [need to] have trust and confidence in both the tax system and in the social security system."
News? When the article is about something that happened 16 years ago?
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I don't see it making it hard to justify a large salary, what I see it being a complication for, is large yearly bonuses for management, while the rank and file get shafted.
Generalized higher pay grades, even really obscene ones, would not really be an obstacle as long as they 1) pay their proper % of tax, and 2) have that income as a steady, constant thing.
It is when the managers make up fairy stories about how "We gotta do triple shifts or the company will go under! OMG!", pay everyone beneath them peanuts, and then give themselves huge, fat bonuses at the end of the year for "Doing such a great job!!" that people will notice it, and then raise cain.
I personally would LOVE to see this level of wage transparency in the US-- It would make a great many HR, and management teams break out in cold, bloody sweats.
Same thing in Finland, everyones total income is public, of course you don't nesseccary know how much you peers salaries are as, they might have additional income from through other work etc. However income from stock and other investments are show separately as they have different tax structure.
Certainly, given the avoidance in the UK by Google etc., it would be nice to know exactly what all the corporates are [not]paying compared to their turnover in the territory. I say turnover, because there's less possibility of manipulation and it will give some guide to profitability.
Profit is easy to manipulate, in order to make tax liabilities disappear, yet the offending company still uses the infrastructure in the country. This is a point made by Warren Buffett, that well-known communist, not specifically by me.
That way, we know which companies to boycott. And yes, since you're asking, I have no FB account, don't buy anything from Google ads and am beginning to minimise my use of Amazon. https://www.hive.co.uk/ support local bookshops in the UK, for example.
On y va, qui mal y pense!
How is making your contribution to the public purse public anything soviet like? By keeping this information the shadows you allow the thieves at the big end of town to continue to allow steal from the rest of us. .
> Put in some effort and get rewarded.
Turns out, that's not how it works. Anywhere. Commonly held fallacy though.
There is no such fact.
I mean I know we Americans like to pretend to have low taxes, but, in reality, we just have a lot of misdirection and backdoor taxes.
Every fee you pay for a government service, especially the ones they impose on you like driver's licenses which need to be renewed for some reason and the same with car registrations. Then they setup their regulations to maximize offences so they can disproportionately rake in money from the poor. Those fines are all taxes really.
40%? That isn't far off from some estimates I have seen for totals of what a lot of Americans give our worthless government.
"I opened my eyes, and everything went dark again"
if you are a federal worker, your salary is not a secret.
Except that in contrast to Norway it is harder to find
I do not believe in karma. "Funny"=-6. Do good and forbid evil. Yours, Oft-Offtopic Flamebaiting Troll.
That's the general fear about making salaries transparent - that high earners will have to justify their high salaries and thus see that it might be lowered. What really happens is those who make less start asking questions as to why they make less. Sometimes it's genuine skill and contributions - Employee A makes more because their work is high quality and people like working with Employee A - using his work output, working with them in general, etc. Employee B, however, barely produces output, and people hate using it because there are so many errors than it needs to be corrected before it can be used, as well as people just avoid interacting with Employee B.
Other times, there can be real problems. This is in general the bigger cauxe - perhaps they didn't negotiate their starting salary as much, or other reason. This is why companies hate salary transparency - they don't want high performers to know how little they're being paid compared to their peers whom were recently hired. One coworker made a mention that if he applied for a job the company was offering, he'd make more money. (He went to his managers and the company re-evaluated all their pay scales).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?...
A mechanical engineer, eh. Not exactly rocket science.
Everybody here is missing the other point: This global transparency ensures that people know their tax money "goes to something reasonable"
It totally keeps the rich, the government, etc., in check.
No sig today...
Wage transparency is great for so many reasons. As well as preventing the kind of abuse you describe, it also makes it easy to get a fair salary without heavy negotiation, and be sure you aren't getting screwed over.
As a result it also tends to drive down various pay gaps (gender, ethnicity etc). Some people claim that such gaps don't really exist, but the fact that they are reduced in countries with wage transparency disproves that.
const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
- the only 'explaining' they 'have to do' is so that others can also try and do the same. AFAIC income and wealth taxes are robbery, armed robbery regardless if it is 100%, 50% or 0.00000000000000000000000000000000000000000001%
Somalia was tax-free for almost a 1/4 century; you should have emigrated.
If nothing else you'd have a much greater appreciation of both the value of taxation & what "armed robbery" is really like.
Pain is merely failure leaving the body
If wage transparency is bad for everybody, why does Norway have the world's 5th highest salaries?
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The US has a much different culture when it comes to social justice. Old countries, like Norway and Japan, have more of a sense of community than the US, where no-one gives fuck about anybody but themselves. In business negotiations a deal can be struck where the opposing party may suffer irreparable damage, where in civilized countries though is given to the other party's survival.
The US was founded on conquest, genocide, slavery, and war. The Land of the Free's constitution was written by slave owners who had stolen and killed the original land owners.
Taxation in Norway and and other EU countries are mostly funding social projects, not so in the US where the 100% of personal income tax revenue is funding the military. Wars are invented to keep the military industrial complex rolling in perpetuity.
Most democratic countries have political parties with differing opinions, not so in the US where there is only one more party than in China.
The school system in the US is designed to make people into stupid unquestioning consumers, and soldiers, that will vote idiots like Trump and Bush into an office, for which there is no requirements for any relevant qualifications or talent. Trump has never been elected to even a minor political office. He is a dirty simpleton unschooled trust-fund-baby businessman whose grandfather founded their fortune by renting hotels to prostitutes, and has many bankruptcies and scandals behind him. He makes George Bush look like a smart guy.
Nope. Some other European countries have high tax brackets for big earners, but Norway's top tax bracket is only 39%, which is lower than the USA: https://taxfoundation.org/how-...
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But it would go a long way in calling bullshit on an employer who tells you no on a payraise because " budgets are tight " all the while paying each of their execs a yearly bonus that exceeds your lifetime income.
This sort of transparency would cause a great deal of discomfort for those companies who regularly lie to their employees.
In fact, those companies would find it difficult to keep any employees and, in the end, might have difficulty being a company at all when all of their talent leaves because of it.
The Income Inequality gap in the US is so wide now, this level of transparency would likely cause a great deal of anger at best.
An insane amount of violence at worst.
As the article stated, it used to be that everything was completely open and searchable on the internet for a few years, before that point you had to visit city hall (or the post office) and manually search through huge books.
The current setup is actually very nice, in that the transparency goes both ways:
In order to be allowed to access any tax records you first have to use the same two-factor authentication you would use to deliver your own tax return, and if you then look at any tax return except your own, the person you looked up will be notified that you did so.
I.e. if I think my neighbors are spending too much money and want to check what they have declared, they will immediately be told that I did so.
Terje
"almost all programming can be viewed as an exercise in caching"
But in Norway, doesn't the tax system give everyone about the same net income, no matter how much they may gross?
No. The base tax is 36%, but there's a decent base deduction on the gross income to find the taxable income. Then, if you make more than a certain amount (taxable, higher than the average income) you pay an extra ~10% on the amount above that limit.
...and any time pricing information is concealed, it's NOT a free market.
You know the only people who WANT a free market, really want one? Small actors who have no leverage. The BEST deal you can get when you're small is a fair one, as produced by a free market. Every large actor (the company vs you, at salary time, say) wants a closed market, so they can use their size advantage. The Company knows EVERY salary in the company (and they always want to know what you were paid at every previous job, when you apply) while you only know your own, at negotiation time. That's a huge advantage for them, which they always wish to preserve.
"Well, we'd really love to give you a raise, but we'd have problems if everyone saw how much more you're making..."
That is a Good Thing. If two people are doing equal work, one should not get a raise just for being more assertive.
As the US slides further left
Uhhhh, what?
Eat the rich.