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Bitcoin Splits in Two Amid Feud (cnet.com)
Bitcoin is dividing in two. Disagreements about how to operate the cryptocurrency have led to a new strand called Bitcoin Cash, which is breaking off from the bitcoin system. From a report: Bitcoin Cash launches Tuesday in what is known as a "hard fork" from bitcoin, a virtual currency based on peer-to-peer transactions without any central authority or bank behind it. The new offshoot is a response to the increasing popularity of bitcoin, which is struggling to deal with massive numbers of transactions with its underpinning technology. The main bitcoin currency is adopting a system called Segwit2x that moves transactions out of the current blockchain, while bitcoin Cash will use bigger blocks within the blockchain. Bitcoin holders are set to receive the same amount of bitcoin cash as they have in bitcoin if the exchanges and wallets they use support the new coin, another report added. Exchanges including Kraken and ViaBTC have said they'll support both, while others like Coinbase and Poloniex have said they won't, citing uncertainty that bitcoin cash will have lasting market value.
I must be missing something. I assume everyone involved is working toward strengthening the currency as a whole and not trying to undermine it's success. With that goal in mind it would seem coming to terms over it's future would make a lot more sense than segmenting it's user base.
BTC "wins" because some Chinese mining pools are making money hand over fist from transaction fees. Obviously they don't want that to end. It also "wins" because many people holding BTC don't want the supply to effectively double with a hard fork, as that devalues their "investment".
The ultimate problem with Bitcoin is that it involves multiple parties who are strongly motivated to operate at cross-purposes for their own personal gain. Bitcoin Cash won't be the last hard fork.
Because there's no such thing as "free money"? And when someone promises you "free money" you can be assured it's a fraud?
Still have HOURS-long confirmation times, tiny block size, etc.. makes it useless for F2F transactions, merchant payments, etc..
Not really, And BCC is not a viable solution to BTC's problems.
There's more to making robust network software than constructing a shiny UI or simply hacking operations parameters to reach a higher size per TX; the actual protocol implementation has to be robust to scale with those features and not blow up.
" no value beyond hype"
And what gives U.S. Dollars value?
Current NYC maxes out at 7 transactions per second. Visa, MasterCard, etc do thousands of transactions per second.
One of these are the future and it won't be the one where you max out transactions at a mere 7.
If Amazon accept bitcoin it would only ship .5% of what other payment processing. Simply because of the number of transactions that take place daily.
Can you imagine waiting in line at the grocery store for 20 minutes to get a credit card approved? Bitcoin is measured in hours
i thought once I was found, but it was only a dream.
The faith and credit of the United States of America.
Anyone with even a bit of a critical mind should realize fairly quickly that Bitcoin can't work in wide use or long term (and the more use, the shorter the life).
Anyone with even a bit of common sense and the ability to read some economic theory should figure out the financial theory behind Bitcoin is crap and won't work.
When bitcoin first came out, I thought that; I still don't want anything to do with Bitcoin, but, I've got to give it my grudging respect. Not only has it lasted a lot longer than I (or most people) thought it would, it's got quite a loyal fanbase, keeps evolving and growing, and is (in general) increasing in value at quite a nice rate.
No, it can't go on increasing in value like that forever, but even if it only goes another 10 years before it pops, it's been a very profitable experiment for many people and lasted longer than an average tech company.
"That's the way to do it" - Punch
Not really like a split. More like a clone. This doesn't happen in the stock or currency world. Basically you now have two chains that operate on the same history but are now divergent.
I have no idea how the value of this will play out because it will depend on how strong the support is for each. If each gains equal support, I imagine a decline in valuation for both back to "normal". Otherwise you'll have one absorb the transaction space of the other and essentially just eliminate the loser's value overnight, probably. Depending on how long that plays out people are going to be trading on both which means potential volatility.
Popcorn-worthy from my seat.
a 'sub-bitcoin' offering that is backed by bitcoin, but doesn't require a full calculation on each transaction.
Like put all the bitcoin somewhere safe like Fort Knox and issue paper substitutes?
Bitcoin would disappear tomorrow if there was an actually anonymous (Bitcoin isn't even really anonymous) way of sending literally anything of value. This need is most fervently expressed by privacy advocates, but lets be real: a huge amount of bitcoin's actual transactions are sketchy, and at least a decent number are outright criminal.
So many things about Bitcoin should ring alarm bells. The fact that there's huge amounts of the blocks that have been mined and never moved. The fact that it's set up to be almost mined completely out not merely in our lifetimes, but reasonably soon (unlike, for instance, a precious metal- 70% of all possible bitcoins have already been mined). The fact that there's numerous vulnerabilities if enough of the network is under control of a bad actor. The fact that it markets so heavily to principle-driven libertarian types with an anarchist or minarchist mindset. The fact that the bulk of the mining is taking place in China, specifically where electricity is cheap, and is controlled by a few shadowy men. It's a a goddamned parade of red flags.
And yet, there's still a desire to subscribe to suicidegirls without your wife finding out, and there's still a desire to get weed mailed to you or whatever. So it still has value, because it is providing a market need, even though everyone knows in their hearts it is just like, so fake. Just so super doubleduper fake.
But my GPU did math for a while! Certainly this is a worthy of exchange for goods and services!
WHOOOOOOSSSSHHH!
Linux, you magnificent bastard, I read the fucking manual!
Because there's no such thing as "free money"? And when someone promises you "free money" you can be assured it's a fraud?
When bitcoin first popped up, I mined enough bitcoin on my cheap laptop, and later sold it to pay off my house. The "cost" was perhaps a few cents of electricity. So I'd tend to disagree there's no such thing as "free money".
When gold was discovered in California, a few were fortunate enough to just pick up some nuggets off the ground, with very little effort.
Free money does exist, it's just rare and largely is about luck, like winning the lottery.
Bitcoin would disappear tomorrow if there was an actually anonymous (Bitcoin isn't even really anonymous) way of sending literally anything of value.
Monero is (mathmatically) provably anonymous, provided you download the Monero blockchain and run a full Monero node to send funds (and take the usual steps to anonymize your network connection).
How much did you pay in capital gains taxes? Like I said, fraud. P.S. I don't believe you.
When gold was discovered in California, a few were fortunate enough to just pick up some nuggets off the ground, with very little effort.
Its funny that you mention that. During the gold rush, the people that made the most money were the people selling the shovels and pick-axes, not the people mining the gold.
Bitcoin exchanges == shovel/pick-axe salesmen.
But I have pieces of green paper in my wallet! Certainly this is a worthy of exchange for goods and services!
Among other things, $22 trillion dollars in land, as well as IP rights (patents), spectrum, power and other licensing fees all require annual payments in US dollars if you want to continue to own them.
Your ad here. Ask me how!
This is also why the price of bitcoin spiked before the fork.
a) people wanted to keep their coin in their private wallet so they would get their free BCC
b) BCC options were traded around 400. So even if you needed to pay 200 extra for 1 BTC, the 'profit' would make up for that.
This. The real winners in the whole bitcoin craze are not the people mining; it's the folks selling GPUs and ASICs.
Never underestimate the stupidity inherent in all human beings.
The underlying value is an economic concept called "utility". People value food and houses because they are useful to us. Their "utility value" is what other things we are willing to trade for them (our labor, dollars, etc). The thing is, utility value varies per person and even for the same person at different times. If enough trades happen over a period of time, we can establish an average "market value" - what people are currently willing to trade for this item.
The usefulness of Bitcoin is in transferring economic value from place to place. Since it runs on the Internet, and is open-source software, it can do this function anywhere, for anyone. It is especially useful in circumstances where other methods (bank wires, credit cards, Western Union) are expensive or not available at all. If you are in Venezuela, for example, which is undergoing hyperinflation and economic collapse, you might want to move your assets out of the country. The government won't let you with the national currency (the Bolivar), but you can with bitcoin. Not surprisingly, bitcoin trading volumes are very high in that country.
If something better comes along that does the same job as Bitcoin, it's market value may disappear, the way 2400 baud modems are now pretty worthless.
Because it's a tangible, physical object in my possession that I physically transfer to someone else's possession. It does not require any 3rd party to authenticate, or verify, and it doesn't get recorded in a public f'ing ledger for all eternity.
This doesn't happen in the stock or currency world.
Yes it does. Companies can issue more stock. Governments can issue more currency. Doing so reduces the value of the stock/dollars that already exist.
All I want is a secure system where it's easy to do anything I want. Is that too much to ask ~~ Randall Munroe
If you had bitcoins before the fork you will have them in both branches. If you acquire them in one branch you will not have them in the other. Now one branch will have the ability to do 8 times as many transactions as the other and lower transaction fees. We now have 3 types of coins. Ones from before the fork and ones on each fork. The ones after the fork will have different values/exchange rates. The ones still unspent from before the fork will likely have a value that is the sum of the two. Now if one fork gains more traction than the other that fork will become more valuable. My bet is on bitcoin cash because it is more useful for me. I don't speculate on bitcoin, I don't use it as a store of wealth and I don't use it to measure the value of anything. I use it strictly for transactions, to exchange value with others. The old system was limited to a rather pathetically slow rate.