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NSA Unlawfully Surveilled Kim Dotcom In New Zealand, Says Report (thehill.com)

According to new documents from New Zealand's Government Communications Security Bureau (GCSB), the NSA illegally used technology to spy on Megaupload founder Kim Dotcom. "The New Zealand Herald first reported that the GCSB told the nation's high court that it ceased all surveillance of Dotcom in early 2012, but that 'limited' amounts of communications from Dotcom were later intercepted by its technology without the bureau's knowledge," reports The Hill. From the report: Dotcom was surveilled by the NSA and the GCSB in a joint intelligence operation named Operation Debut. According to the Herald, that surveillance was scheduled to end in January 2012, but the United States continued to use New Zealand's technology. According to court documents obtained by the Herald, "Limited interception of some communications continued beyond the detasking date without the knowledge of GCSB staff." The court papers don't explain how the NSA was able to use the GCSB's spying technology without the bureau's knowledge. According to the Herald, "The GCSB documents do contain an admission of NSA involvement, although it was not made outright." Dotcom is facing charges of copyright infringement and money laundering related to Megaupload, a file-sharing website shut down in 2012. He is currently fighting U.S. attempts to extradite him from New Zealand.

133 comments

  1. Him and everyone else by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Does he think he is special? The NSA spies on everyone.

    1. Re: Him and everyone else by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      When it comes to anything on foreign soil, the NSA isn't under their jurisdiction. Until they get caught, at which point it becomes a political and diplomatic issue. Same for any government agency of any country, in any other country.

  2. Shocking by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I cannot believe this, we all know that the NSA or any other 3 or 4 or in fact agency with any number of letters even up and including alphabet would never do anything evil like this.

  3. N$A by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Insightful

    So now they're in the business of copyright enforcement.

    1. Re:N$A by ArylAkamov · · Score: 2

      Never underestimate feature creep. You think it's bad in software? Just check out what it does to government agencies.

    2. Re:N$A by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Oh yeah.
      Some of their other famous targets include: wikileaks, piratebay, and unicef
      They really branch out.
      You know the reason - "FOR NATIONAL SECURITY!!!!!!!!!11!1!11!11!111one!!!1111!"

  4. I don't get it... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Sure, Kim Dotcom is a dirtbag, but I don't understand why he's a target of the NSA. He's not -- as far as I'm aware -- an existential threat to the United States. He's just a greasy internet guy from a foreign country. How can he be laundering money against US interests when he keeps no money and doesn't reside there. It's all very strange.

    1. Re:I don't get it... by turkeydance · · Score: 1

      he holds the keys

    2. Re:I don't get it... by JThundley · · Score: 1

      I know this isn't really an answer, but the answer is that they play dirty. Makes me think more and more that at some point at my life I'll scream the words "You'll never take me alive!"

    3. Re:I don't get it... by jonwil · · Score: 1

      He directly profited from the piracy of Hollywood content, that alone is enough to make the US government (after some prodding from their masters in the media industry) interested in the guy.

    4. Re:I don't get it... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I know this isn't really an answer, but the answer is that they play dirty. Makes me think more and more that at some point at my life I'll scream the words "You'll never take me alive!"

      Gone off your meds again, have you ?

    5. Re:I don't get it... by DivineKnight · · Score: 1

      The real reason is probably something benign, like one of his servers has some version of a game that can't be found anywhere else, and the uploader decided to PGP encrypt it, and now 3 levels of the NSA are committed to quietly breaking the encryption on these files, because it's a game that some of their top programmers / mathematicians / etc. played in college but could never finish (and now that they have a job, money, and some free time, they intend to complete it, come hell or high-water).

    6. Re:I don't get it... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "I KNOW MY RIGHTS!"

    7. Re:I don't get it... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      SO WHAT THE FUCK does that have to do with the nsa the government should spend billions every time some jew in Hollywood cries SHARING omg he is SHARING.

  5. Kim Dotcom by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Big fat douchebag. Fat fat FAT!

    1. Re:Kim Dotcom by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      dont b bodyshaming bro

    2. Re:Kim Dotcom by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      why not? people like that need to be called out on their fatness and lack of self control. that's what it boils down to, lack of self control.

    3. Re:Kim Dotcom by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      but but but my hormones!

    4. Re:Kim Dotcom by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Your whore moans? My whore screams.

    5. Re:Kim Dotcom by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      sounds like deflecting to me chubster

  6. Re:But, but.... Obama!! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    mine's available

  7. Not illegal by goombah99 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    It's not illegal in the US for the NSA to spy on other countries. And it's not illegal in Russia to subvert elections in the US.

    --
    Some drink at the fountain of knowledge. Others just gargle.
    1. Re:Not illegal by Maelwryth · · Score: 5, Informative

      It is (was now) illegal for NZ to spy on it's own citizens and the US was using NZ to do the dirty work. The GCSB said that they thought it was legal but then continued to spy on KDC for two months after they found out it was illegal.

      --
      I reserve the write to mangle english.
    2. Re:Not illegal by BitterOak · · Score: 1

      It is (was now) illegal for NZ to spy on it's own citizens and the US was using NZ to do the dirty work.

      Perhaps illegal under NZ law, but that is completely irrelevant if Kim Dotcom is tried in a US court.

      --
      If I can be modded down for being a troll, can I be modded up for being an orc, or a balrog?
    3. Re:Not illegal by Maelwryth · · Score: 3, Interesting

      I am unsure of the specific laws that would pertain to irrelevance of trial in the US but there is a broad precedent that information gathered illegally cannot be used. This can be overridden but it isn't a bad starting point. Possibly more relevant would be that he can't be extradited due to evidence obtained illegally in NZ. To quote the NZ extradition treaty with the US.

      "Evidence on behalf of person whose surrender is sought regarding restrictions on surrender

      (1) In any proceedings under this Act, a Judge or court may receive evidence tendered by or on behalf of a person whose surrender is sought that is relevant to the restrictions on surrender in sections 7 and 8 if the Judge or court considers the evidence is reliable, whether or not the evidence is otherwise admissible in a court of law.

      (2) Subsection (1) does not apply to evidence gathered in New Zealand."

      --
      I reserve the write to mangle english.
    4. Re:Not illegal by currently_awake · · Score: 2

      It can be used in a NZ court to oppose the extradition on the grounds the request was based on illegally obtained evidence.

    5. Re:Not illegal by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Sorry, that's bullshit.

    6. Re:Not illegal by Richard_at_work · · Score: 1

      Yes, it can be used to throw out any extradition request - but Kim Dotcom had better be especially careful about where he travels in future...

      NZ is only the *current* jurisdiction this is being fought in, it can quite easily become dozens of other countries at the behest of the American judicial system.

    7. Re:Not illegal by arglebargle_xiv · · Score: 1

      The court papers don't explain how the NSA was able to use the GCSB's spying technology without the bureau's knowledge.

      The equipment is supplied by the NSA, the software is from the NSA, the training is done by the NSA, why is the GCSB surprised that it functions without their involvement? They're just the janitors.

    8. Re:Not illegal by interkin3tic · · Score: 2

      If the best defense of something you can come up with it is "they haven't passed a law against it," then that should be a sign you should consider NOT DEFENDING IT.

    9. Re: Not illegal by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      How exactly do you try a person who isn't a citizen of your country? This case was pure greed on behalf of big studios and a cavalier government who thinks it rules the world.

      It's no surprise shit like this is coming to light. America is a land where bullies and sociopaths gain power. I say that as someone born here. We'd do well to mind our own business, our own laws, and our own people.

    10. Re:Not illegal by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      It's not illegal in the US for the NSA to spy on other countries. And it's not illegal in Russia to subvert elections in the US.

      That's correct. Nobody in the US is going to arrest Russia, and nobody in New Zealand is going to arrest the NSA.

      However, citizens in each country who assisted in these activities may not find themselves so lucky...

    11. Re:Not illegal by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      It is, however, illegal in New Zealand to tell the court that you are not doing something that you continue to do. It's also illegal in the USA. It's called 'perpetrating a fraud upon the court' and is one of the nastier felonies that are only prosecuted against little people.

      AC

    12. Re:Not illegal by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      How did Russia subvert the elections in USA?

    13. Re:Not illegal by MrKaos · · Score: 1

      It is (was now) illegal for NZ to spy on it's own citizens

      This is a direct component of the Eschelon SI G-INT agreement commonly known as 5 I's. The US and NZ are signatories and have an agreement in place. I have it around somewhere from when I read it and IIRC, the way it works is as you say, NZ isn't allowed to sp y on domestic citizens, however NZ government is able to get around this by using intelligence sharing agreements. One member of the agreement spies on another member, generally with consent.

      and the US was using NZ to do the dirty work.

      This is the point of difference in the agreement. NZ can't do the dirty work on its own citizens legally and the US doesn't need NZ to do it. Under the agreement, the US can just do it with technological means in place, legally or not.

      This applies to US, UK, Canada, Australia and New Zealand. We spy on each other countries citizens as a part of the hangover from WWII and the Cold war. It's kind of shit that we undermine each other's democracies like that and, in reading them, I've found that our countries telecommunications intercept laws are mostly standardized to within what is constitutionally allowable in each country.

      The GCSB said that they thought it was legal but then continued to spy on KDC for two months after they found out it was illegal.

      GCSB was probably a client to information from N SA tools installed on NZ citizen's phones. More than likely the N SA just kept using their tools. I wouldn't be surprised if it was a bit of an up yours to the NZ government for not co-operating.

      The US can see him, knows where he is but can't arrest and deport because the NZ government doesn't want to endure the press it would attract that the US can come into their country to arrest and deport a NZ citizen. There are different agreements for people on the ground to physically arrest KDC which must involve a local process of law. No country is going to give up their sovereignty, even if it is the US asking.

      And I have no doubt the KDC has got some very big Mauri blokes looking after him after his experiences regardless.

      --
      My ism, it's full of beliefs.
    14. Re:Not illegal by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      i can think of a lot of worse places to be "stuck" in forever than new zealand.. but not very many places that are better. at least he's not stuck in russia with the fsb always watching and never knowing from one minute to the next whether he's going to get sold out, or in some shithole in london where he can't even go outside.

    15. Re:Not illegal by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This is an extradition case in NZ. The US has no jurisdiction there.

    16. Re:Not illegal by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Unconstitutional search and seizure is very illegal in the US.

    17. Re:Not illegal by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Said a whiny AC...

    18. Re:Not illegal by ilguido · · Score: 1

      And it's not illegal in Russia to subvert elections in the US.

      The unlawfully spied one would question the relevance of that statement.

    19. Re: Not illegal by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      By stealing information from the DNC and others which allowed them to mount an anonymous social media campaign in favour of Trump/against Clinton. They may also have influenced members of Trump's campaign and directly manipulated voting tallies.

    20. Re: Not illegal by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's basically an act of war against New Zealand. This is going to be baaaad for the NSA.

    21. Re: Not illegal by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You get a red card from me, for answering my question about the point about subversion, by making another point about theft. This point about a point type of rhetoric makes the idea of subversion more metaphorical and less concrete, which would be inherently dishonest insofar as arguing for a point about subverting the election goes.

      Given how paranoid the US government and its media seem to be, the mere suspicion of "directly manipulating voting tallies" is thus incredible and lacks truth value. My impression is also that US government really isn't worried about the votes being tampered with.

      And while on the topic of elections. Let me get this right, if I understood things correctly.
      1) Iirc, USA has by own merit interfered in something like 80'ish elections in other countries abroad, not counting regime change or invasions, the last 50 years or so (I forgot the details). Ofc, two wrongs doesn't make things right, so your general concern about your elections would ofc be well founded, but tone deaf in a way.

      2) The leadership of the democratic party secretly favored Hillary Clinton, and being biased that way with regard to other candidates wanting to represent the democratic party in the upcoming presidential election, thus not being democratic.

      3) I believe people affiliated with the democratic party in a public hearing, make forth the point that the voter can have no expectation of the party leadership being unbiased. As if scheming to elect one particular leader from the start is something they can do without ever informing the public, and against the expectations of the people supposed to join the elections.

      4) Hillary Clinton is known for grossly mishandling secret information, yet, the boss of the FBI apparently made the point, that he chose to not even consider charging HRC because he did not believe she was a criminal, as if proving intent alone was the only indicator if someone was found guilty of mishandling secret information with whatever criminal penalty that would follow. People also seem to wrongly believe that the boss of the FBI has the "discretion" of either putting forth a charge or not, while the boss of the FBI probably does not have some kind of pre-emptive pardon power, which makes the point about having discretion a moot point in that regard. The now fired boss of FBI (Comey) could be said to be involved in a decision in charging someone, but I am sure that does not infer a pre-emptive pardon power, which someone suggested some time ago.

      5) The FBI seem to have mishandled the case and their duty as policing laws, not wanting to seek the truth in public nor publicly investigate suspects, issuing immunity deals to people that are partly responsible for HRC handling secret information that might have ended up with anybody having an interest in her private email server. The whole ordeal with investigation HRC seems to me to be a cover up, or at least some willful ignorance, as if declining to investigate a high ranking public official. I can understand the sentiment that investigating a major presidential candidate might seem unfortunate and inappropriate, and patently unpatriotic, as if being tricked into meddling with their own election, however, the two party system with dems and conservatives seem all too interested in criminalizing their presidents, so this caution of caring too much for their presidential candidates seems very weird to me.

      Btw, if you think that USA is best served by having it ruled by a secret court, secret military, secret politics or secret election process, anything you say in the name of democracy would fall on deaf ears with me so to speak. Oh, btw, I happen to have the opinion, that anyone that would go to the extreme in matters of domestic or foreign politics, ought to be considered national extremists, a less than charming label I am sure. :)

    22. Re: Not illegal by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      More oddly, the so called 'electoral collage' (I am no expert on this) decided to try elect Trump as president, but not Hillary. Even more weird, since the tally for the votes showed HRC to end up with most of the votes.

      I presume that the 'electoral collage' acts as an anti-anti-establishment mechanic, securing a traditional choice for whoever ends up being the president, however the media seem to freak out and get upset even though this type of non-democratic gimmick was known to be in place.

    23. Re: Not illegal by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Oops, I wrote "collage" heh, and not "college". My bad! :P

    24. Re:Not illegal by dbIII · · Score: 1

      Why? Roman Polanski doesn't have to worry much about where he travels.
      Isn't it odd that copyright violation is being taken far more seriously than raping a twelve year old girl hard enough for her to need medical treatment.

    25. Re: Not illegal by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Roman Polanski is in Yoorop and is the darling of the Hollywood left. He's untouchable.

    26. Re:Not illegal by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Why? Roman Polanski doesn't have to worry much about where he travels. Isn't it odd that copyright violation is being taken far more seriously than raping a twelve year old girl hard enough for her to need medical treatment.

      Of the two facts in that sentence, neither are correct. A) She was less than a year away from age of consent, and B) She never requested nor was given medical treatment.

    27. Re:Not illegal by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      but it is relevant to fight extradition.

    28. Re: Not illegal by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Also she never wanted to press charges.

    29. Re:Not illegal by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      ^ makes sense

      "This is the point of difference in the agreement. NZ can't do the dirty work on its own citizens legally and the US doesn't need NZ to do it. Under the agreement, the US can just do it with technological means in place, legally or not.

      This applies to US, UK, Canada, Australia and New Zealand. We spy on each other countries citizens as a part of the hangover from WWII and the Cold war. It's kind of shit that we undermine each other's democracies like that and, in reading them, I've found that our countries telecommunications intercept laws are mostly standardized to within what is constitutionally allowable in each country."

    30. Re:Not illegal by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      what's bullshit about it

    31. Re: Not illegal by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      In this case it's all because of undercover republicans posing as democrats.

    32. Re: Not illegal by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      In this case it's all because of undercover republicans posing as democrats.

      In this case it's also because of undercover republicans posing as democrats.

    33. Re:Not illegal by Megol · · Score: 0

      She was drugged and raped. No questions about it.

      I like Polanski's movies but he should spend the rest of his life in jail. Rapist scum should be neutered and locked up - no exceptions.

    34. Re: Not illegal by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      oups

    35. Re: Not illegal by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Oh? That makes it all good then. Rape away at children because they don't want to be in court.

    36. Re: Not illegal by KGIII · · Score: 2

      It wasn't theft. They retained their files!

      It works for the pirates. Might as well use it here.

      --
      "So long and thanks for all the fish."
    37. Re: Not illegal by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      By stealing information from the DNC and others which allowed them to mount an anonymous social media campaign in favour of Trump/against Clinton. They may also have influenced members of Trump's campaign and directly manipulated voting tallies.

      Ok, here's the problem: you are listing those in decreasing order of bullshit/irrelevance (crap at the start, good stuff at the end), but unfortunately also in decreasing order of evidence. It doesn't mean you're wrong, but it is shaky ground.

      First, the most serious charge: manipulating voting tallies. We don't know that it happened, and there isn't clear evidence. And yet, if it did happen, that would be very serious election interference. If proven, that'll be literally worth killing people (i.e. Russians) over, as retaliation. It's that serious.

      Second: influencing members of the Trump campaign. That's vastly less serious. And it also looks like it probably happened. Alas, it's not very important. People are allowed to let themselves be influenced, and therefore it's also ok to try to influence someone. At most, that's an issue of corruption on the part of the Trump team, not anything "bad" by Russia. I don't blame the person who offers a bribe; I blame the person who takes it.

      Third: stealing info from DNC. This definitely happened, and yet: nobody should give a shit, and it definitely does not count as subversion or interference. It's completely unimportant. If anything, it should be required; i.e. all parties should be hacked and their secrets revealed to the public. Whoever did that helped our election by improving transparency and reminding us that our parties are not our country's friends.

      The downside is that we ended up with a totally incompetent president. But that's a voter problem: just because everyone knew Clinton would be a lousy president, that was no excuse to vote for Trump. The people who voted for Trump are responsible for their votes, and nobody gets to blame that one whatever happened to DNC. If you voted for Trump because of something that Russia exposed about the Democrats, then fuck you, not Russia. You're the problem and you won't stop being a problem until you start thinking before you vote.

      If you ever find yourself tempted to vote for a Republican or Democrat, that's a warning sign that you probably aren't taking the election seriously. Stop fucking trying to blame that on someone else.

      If that DNC hack was interference, then the Watergate reporting was also election interference. In fact, the entire purpose of the 1st Amendment would be to subvert or interfere with elections. I'm sorry, but that's a stupidly-wide definition, such that all useful meaning is removed. Finding true dirt on candidates and their parties isn't interference; it's a duty. It's why we used to have a press and keep hoping we'll have a press again some day. It's something we all need. It should be encouraged. If it turns out a law was broken, that law probably ought to be repealed, invalidated by a judge, or nullified by a jury. It was a good thing and we should be encouraging it. Thank you, Russia.

      But if you can find someone that messed with voting tallies, I'm all for a bullet to the head instead of thanks.

    38. Re:Not illegal by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It depends on how Russia tries to subvert a US election.

      There is no law that says "Russia May Not Subvert US Elections", but there are US election laws, foreign corruption laws, campaign finance laws, money laundering laws, etc.

      Also, look up FVEY.

    39. Re: Not illegal by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      You're right, it's not theft. It's unauthorized access to and abuse of confidential information. That's still reasonably unlawful, making the point moot.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    40. Re: Not illegal by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "How exactly do you try a person who isn't a citizen of your country?"

      Easy. The crime is either serious enough for the international court, or, you're tough out of fucking luck.

      Just think carefully before you fly off the handle. Do you seriously want the UAE extraditing half of the US population for being women not living under Sharia Law?

    41. Re: Not illegal by mbkennel · · Score: 1

      Watergate reporters exposed malfeasance by the President because they thought the country should know, or more clearly, they accepted information from government insiders who were mortified by the illegal and immoral actions the administration wanted them to pursue.

      2016: Russia illegally hacked DNC and offered information to Trump campaign because they wanted to get Trump elected because they thought Trump would serve their interests and reduce the economic sanctions that they justly deserved from their thuggery.

      It's accepting a bribe (in material information, derived from a crime) from a semi-hostile foreign power which is the problem and the entire difference.

    42. Re:Not illegal by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      True, but as an American I find it very disturbing that any branch of the military was using military tools against a potentially common criminal.

    43. Re:Not illegal by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And it's not illegal for people to make claims like that with 0 evidence.

    44. Re:Not illegal by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Seems like a lot of stupid Americans love the fact that they have a Spying industry that would make the STASI jealous.

    45. Re:Not illegal by Richard_at_work · · Score: 1

      Oh yay, the Roman Polanski example is brought up yet again.

      Read up on the story, theres a *lot* of judicial misconduct in it - thats the reason for the current situation, its not as simple as Polanski is being allowed to get away with child rape.

    46. Re:Not illegal by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      People who make comments like this should commit suicide. Kidnapping is wrong. There is no justification. Period. Scum.

    47. Re:Not illegal by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's always the same person bringing him up though...

    48. Re:Not illegal by Megol · · Score: 1

      Witnesses. Fleeing prosecution. Witnesses that can tell his MO (drugging underage girls). Witnesses that can tell how he took advantage of them. Yeah, I consider him guilty and unless he have the guts to ever face legal scrutiny I will continue to hold that view. But don't take my word - you can easily find out the facts yourself.

      TL;DR Fuck off you disgusting shit of a coward.

  8. What a shock by ArylAkamov · · Score: 0

    Who could have possibly seen this coming?
    WHERE DID WE GO WRONG?

    1. Re:What a shock by AHuxley · · Score: 1

      New Zealand became a member of the Five eyes. Easy to follow NZ and what would be the NSA, GCHG after 1945 into the 1960's.
      They did a lot of work on Japan, France, the Philippines, South African military, Laos. Some issues with NSA in 1985 and France.
      NZ had one thing the NSA wanted. Locations for NSA satellite receiving stations.
      A long history of politics, hardware and total support for the NSA.

      --
      Domestic spying is now "Benign Information Gathering"
  9. US constitution does not protect overseas by CraigCruden · · Score: 1

    I doubt the US constitution offers any protection from unreasonable search and seizure to foreign people in a foreign land -- regardless of whether it may have violated NZ law. As such fighting against extradition from NZ is the only thing keeping him from facing the courts.

    I am not surprised that the NSA spied on him, I would just be surprised if any of that information could or would make its way into civilian law enforcement hands. I suspect the NSA was spying because any storage could be used to store information used to communicate between terrorist cells (i.e. steganography)

    1. Re:US constitution does not protect overseas by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      We need to start killing american tourists everywhere they go.
      Maybe then they will think about how they treat others.

    2. Re:US constitution does not protect overseas by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I suspect the NSA was spying because any storage could be used to store information used to communicate between terrorist cells (i.e. steganography)

      And that's why they spent all the time on trying to get Kim Dotcom so he could be prosecuted on behalf of the MPAA and RIAA.

      You don't actually THINK much, that's painfully obvious.

    3. Re:US constitution does not protect overseas by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      We need to start killing american tourists everywhere they go.
      Maybe then they will think about how they treat others.

      I just emailed the FBI about your post.

      Welcome to the terrorist watch list.

    4. Re:US constitution does not protect overseas by sjames · · Score: 2

      I'm not aware of a geographical limitation on the Constitution anywhere. Other than a few things like being the President or voting, it isn't confined to Citizens either.

    5. Re:US constitution does not protect overseas by fustakrakich · · Score: 2

      I doubt the US constitution offers any protection from unreasonable search and seizure to foreign people in a foreign land

      The US constitution is supposed to apply to US authority, not any geopolitical boundaries.

      --
      “He’s not deformed, he’s just drunk!”
    6. Re:US constitution does not protect overseas by Zero__Kelvin · · Score: 2

      It turns out other countries have laws too. Perhaps the violated New Zealand laws? Oh, that's right, We expect foreigners to obey our laws when here, but it is a one way street.

      --
      Guns don't kill people; Physics kills people! - John Lithgow as Dick Solomon on Third Rock From The Sun
    7. Re:US constitution does not protect overseas by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I just emailed the terrorists about your FBI post.

      I wouldn't venture near any mosques. I hear turtlenecks are coming back in fashion, though.

    8. Re: US constitution does not protect overseas by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      New Zealand is welcome to have its laws enforced worldwide when it has the might to do so. Until then, they can shut up and comply.

    9. Re:US constitution does not protect overseas by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Reporting yourself seems pretty stupid.

    10. Re:US constitution does not protect overseas by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      While you're correct, the federal government interferes with the so-called rights of citizens every day. Whether it's the USA PATRIOT act, the NDAA, or other similar legislation, you in fact have zero of the rights enumerated in the constitution left to you.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    11. Re:US constitution does not protect overseas by sjames · · Score: 1

      Rampant violation of the Constitution is another matter. I agree that the violations are rampant. I just refuse to let claims that the Constitution doesn't apply go unchallenged. Let it be known when authorities de-legitimize themselves.

  10. For those of you from New Zealand by Maelwryth · · Score: 4, Informative

    The Internet Party NZ will be drafting an Anti-Spy bill live online on Sunday the 6th of August with the help of international guests who are experts in the field of state and private intelligence gathering practices, violations and mass surveillance.

    --
    I reserve the write to mangle english.
    1. Re:For those of you from New Zealand by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Well that's hilariously pointless isn't it.

      The Internet party is three guys smoking weed in a shed in Whangarei. They've got absolutely zero political influence, and anything they draft up won't even be worth using to wipe Jacinda's ass when she becomes PM.

    2. Re:For those of you from New Zealand by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "The Internet party is three guys smoking weed in a shed in Whangarei"
       
      I am not one of those guys......but if you can give me their number then.....:)

    3. Re:For those of you from New Zealand by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That was the pirate party and no you do not want their contacts or help. The first thing they would do is leak all registered member user info with names, emails, addresses, political affiliations, and bank dets (likely stored in a handy excel file for easy email leaking). Harsh but true. Really a lost cause in NZ. But hey at least privacy and legitimate policy design is respected by a few.

  11. Re:But, but.... Obama!! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    fag

  12. Ok, I'll explain it for you : by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

    Sure, Kim Dotcom is a dirtbag, but I don't understand why he's a target of the NSA.

    1)
    In the US, people who have lots of money can get the government to do their bidding. This is the basis of the lobbying industry, but it is certainly not limited to lobbying.

    2)
    The people behind the media industry have lots of money. They have for some time been freaking out that they are not getting more money as fast as they think they should be getting more money and they blame sharing, such as Kim Dotcom facilitated, for a great portion of their cash stream slowing.

    3) The people behind the media industry will stop at nothing in their efforts to get more money or at least make sure no one gets anything for free.
            Details like international borders don't matter to these people. They will do whatever it takes to make sure they get as much money in their pockets
            as possible. And if that means using the NSA and subverting local or national laws, that's what they will do.

    4)
    Money and guns run the world. Rules and laws are for the peasants, not for the ruling class.

    Any questions ?

    1. Re:Ok, I'll explain it for you : by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Are they going after Kim Komando next?

  13. I am Shocked... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    "I am shocked, shocked, to find gambling in this establishment!"

  14. Seth Rich by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Kim Dotcom claimed recently to have involvement with Seth Rich leaking the DNC emails to wikileaks. He said that he was acting as a go-between. If he's not lying then it's not surprising that the NSA would have been spying on him.

  15. Unlawfully? by fustakrakich · · Score: 1

    I'm sorry, is that supposed to mean something to the NSA, or any of the other agencies that are designed to operate outside the 'law'?

    --
    “He’s not deformed, he’s just drunk!”
    1. Re:Unlawfully? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's high time it started to.

      Execute the lot of them and their immediate families (they've all been complicit in treason and various atrocities en-masse anyways), and maybe the next batch will take a bloody hint.

    2. Re:Unlawfully? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Actually, Intel agencies are designed and required to operate in a lawful manner and officers generally take their responsibility seriously. Not saying that in reality this is always the case and eventually the illegal activity gets exposed. Just like the police there are bad eggs but the vast majority uphold the law and take their responsibilities to the public to heart.

  16. The real questions.. by thesupraman · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Why were the NSA spying on someone who was possibly involved in copyright infringement?
    Why was the GCSB assisting the NSA in spying on someone who was possibly involved in copyright infringement?

    Remember, back then the 'crime' that DotCom was supposed to have committed was not actually a crime in NZ (they later played a lot of political games to shuffle things over the other supposed crimes that were, so they could not get laughed out of extradition hearings). It was certainly nothing that should come under NSA jurisdiction.

    What we are really seeing here is the truth of the government spying - and that is it is a tool to use against citizens whenever the government feels they have 'crossed the line' of what they are allowed to do. It is not a particularly useful tool against terrorism - because you need to know your targets, and you usually dont know a terrorism target until AFTER they have done whatever they were planning.

    It is however a very VERY effective political tool for repressing alternative views - you only have to point out to someone some 'embarrassing' details that have been trawled up, and quietly suggest they play along, or such things could get leaked by accident..

    1. Re: The real questions.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      I pretty much consider Kim Dotcom to be the internet Jesus.
      The US gov. really seems to want him crucified for helping people share. That's a good enough analogy for me.

    2. Re:The real questions.. by OYAHHH · · Score: 1

      Um, Obviously you haven't been paying attention. KimDotCom had been attempting to inject himself into the Presidential election. As in "I been hacking the election...."

      --
      Caution: Contents under pressure
    3. Re:The real questions.. by TheRaven64 · · Score: 2

      Why were the NSA spying on someone who was possibly involved in copyright infringement?

      That's the key issue. Why is copyright infringement in the remit of the National Security Agency? What is the national security threat from pirating movies?

      --
      I am TheRaven on Soylent News
    4. Re:The real questions.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      or he was involved in things other than copyrights... but that wouldn't allow you to be offended.

    5. Re:The real questions.. by Motherfucking+Shit · · Score: 1

      Why were the NSA spying on someone who was possibly involved in copyright infringement?

      Economic espionage. NSA has been doing it for decades, despite it not being part of their charter. The most well-known example, and one of few that have become public, is from the 90s. NSA gathered SIGINT for (American) McDonnell-Douglas that allowed them to snatch a $6B Saudi aircraft order away from (European) Airbus. You can bet this sort of thing happens all the time when those sorts of dollar amounts are in play. MPAA claims piracy costs them billions, ergo, call in the NSA and let the laws be damned.

      --
      "BSD: Free as in speech. Linux: Free as in beer. Windows 10: Free as in herpes." --Man On Pink Corner in #52607549.
    6. Re:The real questions.. by ACE209 · · Score: 1

      My guess would be, that the entertainment industry plays a major role in keeping the balance of trade up.

      --
      "we are all atheists about most of the gods that societies have ever believed in. Some of us just go one god further."
    7. Re:The real questions.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Just a crazy theory...

      Kim Dotcom is tied up with Trump in regards to the Russian hacking stuff.

      https://theoutline.com/post/1559/sean-hannity-fox-news-kim-dotcom-arrive-from-a-parallel-universe-to-save-trump-with-seth-rich-murder

      To quote Dotcom himself: "I knew Seth Rich. I know he was the @Wikileaks source. I was involved."

      https://twitter.com/KimDotcom/status/865987139166552064

      I won't speculate as to whether Kim Dotcom was involved in the hacking or distribution of the intel. However, we already know the Seth Rich assassination thing is a lie, with shades of a classic psyops operation that exploited an actual event (Rich's murder) by conflating it into a fake news event intended to contribute to swaying the course of the US presidential elections.

      Guccifer 2.0 is credited for the hack of clintonemail.com and the Team Trump had contact with them. This is already known and Roger Stone admitted to having that contact.

      http://www.businessinsider.com/roger-stone-dnc-hacker-guccifer-democratic-party-2017-3

      There is evidence that Guccifer 2.0 was actually two Russian intelligence orgs masquerading as the original.

      http://foreignpolicy.com/2016/07/26/new-evidence-strengthens-guccifer-2-0s-russian-connections/

      Strictly for the sake of argument, let's accept this as "fact". History or a court can refute it later. If we buy this then Guccifer 2.0, a front for Russian espionage / sabotage operations that has already taken credit for the hack and leak, is the leak and not Rich. This in combination with the recent revelation that the Rich assassination story was totally falsified is enough to discredit the entire assassination story. And Team Trump was talking to Guccifer 2.0 AND a Russian official AND a Russian financier about colluding to screw up the US presidential election.

      If Dotcom was staunchly backing the b.s. assassination story then it isn't a stretch to suspect he was involved with our bear and vodka friends to push a false narrative. If he was involved with a foreign power's espionage and sabotage work, the NSA would have rightfully intercepted his communications with his Russian handlers / manipulators. This would be completely legal since he would be an operative for a hostile foreign government. Anything they incidentally scooped up in that process can therefore be used against him with extreme prejudice, even if it is unfair or just some distortion he put out there for lulz. Who'd think the screwed up, unethical, illegal global mass surveillance would ever actually be used for it's intended purpose? This time it was.

      Keep in mind this is also why the NSA intercepted some of Team Trump's communications as well (they apparently liked having heart to heart discussions with the Russians :/ ).So, in a way, Trump was right that Obama was surveilling him. When you have regular contacts with a foreign government's spy apparatus you tend to get spied on. So unfair! Trump should be allowed to conspire with foreign powers to topple and disrupt the legitimately elected US government as much as he wants, right?

      Ordinarily I'd think this was all b.s. However, it is very clear the Russians were involved, Rich was not killed by the DNC, and Team Trump definitely was involved in some chicanery with the Russians. The odds are fairly high that the ppl directly helping Team Trump by pushing this fake news / propaganda / psyops stuff are either 1) unwitting Russian puppets who think they aren't or 2) Russian operatives. As Dotcom is currently fighting US extradition I think he has plenty of incentive to be in category 2 as he might be looking for them to help him out of his inconvenient legal entanglements.

    8. Re:The real questions.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      we all know the Seth Rich assassination thing is a lie

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=giuZdBAXVh0
      Seymour Hersh discussing what he knows about the Seth Rich case. I wouldn't assume anything in regards to it.

    9. Re:The real questions.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Time for your nap Hillary you have blamed enough people go back to sleep.

    10. Re:The real questions.. by Agripa · · Score: 1

      Why were the NSA spying on someone who was possibly involved in copyright infringement?
      Why was the GCSB assisting the NSA in spying on someone who was possibly involved in copyright infringement?

      The NSA spies on American citizens and forwards the information to the DEA and other law enforcement agencies for drug and other crimes. Why wouldn't they get involved in copyright infringement?

  17. he's a scumbag by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    they should have shot him.

    1. Re:he's a scumbag by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Nah, they should have just air lifted him ten miles out to sea and made him swim to shore. Lose weight, fat ass!

    2. Re: he's a scumbag by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Nah, that's no good, the Chinese would build an airbase on him.

  18. Languauge by quenda · · Score: 1, Informative

    What report?
    No report in the Herald or other NZ publication would use the word "surveilled". They still speak English there.

    1. Re:Languauge by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Why say "watched", "spied on" or even "observed" when you can invent a shiny new buzzword for the purpose?

    2. Re:Languauge by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      First sentence from the article:

      "THE GCSB lost control of its surveillance technology and wasn't aware its systems continued spying on Kim Dotcom, according to new documents from the spy bureau."

      I can totally understand this. You have no idea how many times I accidentally continued spying on people.

    3. Re:Languauge by Zero__Kelvin · · Score: 2
      --
      Guns don't kill people; Physics kills people! - John Lithgow as Dick Solomon on Third Rock From The Sun
    4. Re:Languauge by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Except the Herald, Stuff, and Scoop. And those were the first three I tried. RNZ does too.

    5. Re:Languauge by quenda · · Score: 1

      Except the Herald, Stuff, and Scoop. And those were the first three I tried. RNZ does too.

      Your first link is a reprint of a Washington Post story. Second one starts with a middle-endian date format - must be a foreigner.
      Third one is a press-release by an illiterate wanker with numerous spelling/punctuation/grammar errors including the humourous "bold-face liar". He prints lies in a heavy font?

    6. Re:Languauge by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      a perfectly fine English word in use since at least 1904?

    7. Re:Languauge by quenda · · Score: 1

      Oh, it's perfectly cromulent in North American English. I just never heard it from a Kiwi.

  19. You're a scumbag by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    We should shoot you, all of us. Just for thinking that. Especially about someone you only know about because of the media.
    It's not even a big deal what Kim did, YouTube and Facebook have far more pirates.

  20. The real question is by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Why is the NSA wasting resources and time on someone like DotCom ?

    Last I checked the man wasn't exactly a threat to National Security.

    If you believe the news these days ( hahahahaha ) there are so many terrorists out there to " get us ", that the NSA should have plenty to do instead of spying on someone like DotCom.

    1. Re:The real question is by BlueStrat · · Score: 1

      Why is the NSA wasting resources and time on someone like DotCom ?

      Last I checked the man wasn't exactly a threat to National Security.

      If you believe the news these days ( hahahahaha ) there are so many terrorists out there to " get us ", that the NSA should have plenty to do instead of spying on someone like DotCom.

      The NSA's main task for the past few decades has been mass domestic surveillance for political/ideological purposes to stifle dissent, to silence whistle-blowers, and to protect the criminally-corrupt holding power.

      "National security" is simply the keycode to unlocking more extra-Constitutional powers and funding.

      The USA *used to be* a nation of laws. Now, it's just another (though large) corrupt & authoritarian banana-republic.

      Strat

      --
      Progressivism (aka US 'Liberalism'): Ideas so good they need a police/surveillance-state to enforce.
  21. wish I had the NSA's resources by OrangeTide · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Someone stole my bike. But since I'm not a billion dollar corporation I don't get to have several government agencies at my disposal for pursuing what amount to a civil case.

    I assure you the I am hurt more for not having a bicycle than a movie studio is when someone pirates a film.

    --
    “Common sense is not so common.” — Voltaire
    1. Re:wish I had the NSA's resources by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Especially so since it was the only bike you had, and the movie studio did not actually lose any possessions -they just lost a sale they had hoped they would have.

  22. Misread that title as NASA by dbIII · · Score: 1

    Misread that title as NASA - Kim is almost big enough to show up on one of their LEO satellites I suppose.

    1. Re:Misread that title as NASA by sabbede · · Score: 1

      That would have been so awesome.

  23. Why would they spy on him? He's a pirate, not a by sabbede · · Score: 1

    terrorist, unfriendly foreign power, or any sort of security threat to the US. The NSA is an intelligence agency, not an anti-piracy agency.

  24. Re:Why would they spy on him? He's a pirate, not a by volodymyrbiryuk · · Score: 1

    They work for the highest (domestic) bidder. What do you think their base in Germany is for? But people only gets apeshit crazy about Chinese Industrial espionage.

    --
    sudo rm -r -f --no-preserve-root /
  25. Everything the NSA does is illegal somewhere by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Everything the NSA does is illegal somewhere.
    a) when they spy on people outside the USA, it is illegal in that location, country, state, city
    b) when they spy on people inside the USA, it violates the 4th and 10th amendments to the US Constitution
    c) They have to be stopped. Defunded.

    I'm still confused as to why the NSA would be bothering with copyright infringement when they have both a war on terror and war on drugs to fight? Seems that both of those boondoggles should be enough.

  26. Alternative Facts by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Of the two facts in that sentence, neither are correct.

    What do you call a fact that isn't correct?

  27. Missed the point by a hemisphere! by dbIII · · Score: 1

    It is very simple.
    Copyright violation charge versus a conviction, for rape of a child no less.
    Moving the goalpost towards questioning the validity of the conviction is going away from the point. Would a different example of someone fleeing justice help?

    My point is the response to copyright violation seems disproportionate.