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Intel's Upcoming Coffee Lake CPUs Won't Work With Today's Motherboards (pcworld.com)
Intel's upcoming Coffee Lake CPUs won't work with existing 200-series motherboards that support Kaby Lake, a manufacturer confirmed on Wednesday. In a Twitter post by Asrock last Saturday, the company confirmed the news when asked if "the Z270 Supercarrier [will] get support for the upcoming @intel Coffee Lake CPUs." Their response: "No, Coffee Lake CPU is not compatible with 200-series motherboards." PCWorld reports: According to at least one reliable source outside of Intel, the new Coffee Lake CPU will indeed not be compatible with Z270 boards, even though the chipsets with the upcoming Z370 appear to be the same, PCWorld was told. The source added that there are hopes in the industry that Intel will change its mind on compatibility. Tomshardware.com said it had independently confirmed the news with Asrock officials as well.
Why this matters: The vast majority of new CPU sales are in new systems, and they likely won't be impacted by the incompatibility. However, there's also a very large and very vocal crowd of builders and upgraders who still swap out older, slower CPUs for newer, faster CPUs to maximize their investment. An upgrade-in-place doesn't sell an Intel chipset, but it at least keeps them on the Intel platform. If consumers are forced to dump an existing Z270 motherboard for a newer Z370 to get a six-core Coffee Lake CPU, Intel risks driving them into the arms of AMD and its Ryzen CPUs.
Why this matters: The vast majority of new CPU sales are in new systems, and they likely won't be impacted by the incompatibility. However, there's also a very large and very vocal crowd of builders and upgraders who still swap out older, slower CPUs for newer, faster CPUs to maximize their investment. An upgrade-in-place doesn't sell an Intel chipset, but it at least keeps them on the Intel platform. If consumers are forced to dump an existing Z270 motherboard for a newer Z370 to get a six-core Coffee Lake CPU, Intel risks driving them into the arms of AMD and its Ryzen CPUs.
Just not 'officially' or 'supported'.
Intel, for as long as I remember, needlessly changed sockets.
For the last 10 years since Intel gained complete monopoly control over Intel chipsets for Intel CPU's they go out of their way to make minor changes to force new motherboards to feed their income from chipsets. They add a pin or two or make some other minor change that makes it impossible to use new cpus with older montherboards even if the chipset is identical in features.
This is SOP at Intel these days. Use that Monopoly power to extract maximum revenue. Hell the new Platinum Xeon chips have MSRP's of up to $13,000. Something that would not be possible with legitimate competition.
You're my only hope
Outside of the gimmicky super-shredder-killer-fps-man-slayer motherboards, it's not like they have been the most expensive part of a computer build for a long time. Introducing a new video card incompatibility like the transition from PCI -> AGP -> PCI Express would be a whole different story.
I keep my systems at least 3 years. Although the theory is that you can swap to a better CPU I've only done this one time. Most of the time Intel deliberately continues evolving the sockets, not for any real technical reason AFAIKT, but to keep you buying those motherboards. This is one of the reasons that I don't upgrade processors very often (I skip a few generations) as the gains are small enough that it's just not worth it for the cost and hassle.
That I buy AMD. They tend to at least attempt backwards compatibility and accept that you may ONLY buy a new CPU. Intel wants you to mortgage your house for every Release.... There is a reason you are expected to lose up to 25% market share this year Intel... Stuff like this... Is it.
I'ts been a long time since AMD has released a competitive product. Intel in a show of appreciation and friendship has decided that the best way to help them along is to assure that unlike the new series of ryzen processors coming out theirs will not be backwards compatible with the hardware you buy. Why else would they restrict the pcie lanes in their top of the line chips by price and lock out features unless they were trying to help AMD along.
once more into the breach
Why this matters: it doesn't.
I was waiting for this CPU, but I might as well make the migration to AMD now if I'm having to buy a new motherboard. Intel needs to get their act together, their pissing their customers off.
I've already switched to AMD Ryzen CPUs for new systems because they're fast, cheap and stable. Not sure why I'd use Intel for anything here on out; instead I can spend more on video cards and larger SSD storage.
Could this be because of the upcoming release of DDR5 RAM? I've seen some speculation that it will be released in 2018, but the Wikipedia page still says 2020.
Intel has hardly ever had usable CPU upgrade on the same motherboard, generally they have kept compatibility for two consecutive generations. It's only like one year in between and has probably been for the OEMs' sake not the consumers. Maybe that's up to two years now that they've switched from tick-tock to process-architecture-optimization, but in any case the year-over-year improvements has been minimal so why? If you so desperately want to replace last year's Z270+CPU, sell them as a package deal and buy a new Z370+CPU combo. Though if you're doing it for the six-core, do yourself a favor and buy a Ryzen or if you must buy Intel then an X299. Doing it just for the two extra cores is stupid. Except for the fanbois who'll take any chance to trash talk the opposing team, is there anyone here who'll stand up and say they'll miss this upgrade path? I expect crickets...
Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
I needed to upgrade, and LGA 2011 came out, figured it would be a good platform to go. Then intel moves to V3 and no more cpu upgrades for v1.
So I'm stuck with 2x 2011-v1 systems, but I don't trust intel, and this just proves it.
Coffeelake got shaken up by AMD Ryzen. Intel freaking out is loading more cores on their CPUs as the newer i7s will go from 4 cores 4 threads to 8 cores 16 threads. The newer i5s are rumored to go from 4 cores to 4 to 8 cores with no hyperthreading.
My guess is Intel quickly glued 2 CPUs together like they did with the i9 and now the socket has doubled in size :-)
http://saveie6.com/
FTFY
Fact is you're probably going to want that new motherboard for all the upgraded ports, memory support, features, etc. that your 4 year old motherboard simply doesn't have.
TFS sounds like a typical conspiracy theory to ascribe greedy intentions to what is more than likely just technological progress.
Given that Intel has abused its industry dominance to first create and then abandon de facto socket standards perhaps two dozen times - who's keeping count now? - over its history, this is hardly a shocking maneuver. Rather it is entirely expected. They like to force people to buy all new hardware sooner rather than later, considering they're collecting royalties for much of it that doesn't have its brand name on it. Back in the Good Olde Days when there were actually other manufacturers competing to populate those same de facto standard sockets, Intel would abandon sockets just to shake up those little guys and drain their resources trying to retool and keep up. Having fully succeeded in eliminating ALL competition for their own de facto socket standards, they now do it just for grins and giggles (and perhaps for those licensing fees).
We are in a bad bad timeline for hardcore and even regular PC enthusiasts, the technological leaps have stagnated significantly, where people with 7 year old PCs need only double their memory and add an SSD (if they didn't already have one) and almost all tasks are fast enough.
The delay in shift from 14nm to 10nm has been pretty bad across the industry, in fact considering the performance improvements for processors, GPUs over the past 7 years, it seems quite apparent that the manufacturing process still plays a very heavy part in the performance boost between generations, just as much as architectural design of the processor.
I have a fairly specific use case, similar but not quite the same to gamers (I want a ridiculously fast PC for general use, I'm an extreme browser, exceeding 100-400 tabs at a time, but I don't game anymore, so I like mid to small ITX, quiet, professional looking machines)
I almost always have open from 8 to 25 applications open of varying kinds. I really like a very responsive system at sub $5000 expense (a 64gb, quad channel, DDR4 4000 machine with 12 cores, liquid cooled, would be great, but the cost would be insane and honestly, a complete top of the line, but not HEDT machine would likely do what I need at easily 30 to 50% savings)
Unfortunately Intel is all over the place with product varieties, when you look around the Intel ARK site (the new one is awful, great job web developers, great job, another unecessary redesign) you can see just how many processors they make, from 6w to 150w across all kinds of segments.
Sadly the days of a "preemo desktop" CPU being their primary bread and butter is over and that's why we see ridiculous things like this article is stating, they are diversified everywhere and the complexity seems beneficial to their bottom dollar.
The rumor is the coffee lake 6 core desktop processor won't work in the existing z170/270 chipset, despite the fact it's basically the same family as the last 2 CPUs for those boards (i7-6700 / i7-7700 etc) just 2 more cores 'glued on'
We also don't know if this new processor was ever intended to come out at 14nm or it was originally 10nm.
There's talk that the new chipset, Z370 isn't even any more than a re-badge of the z270! Which makes forcing people to use it even more ridiculous.
There's a "z390" (?) is a cannonlake chipset or "PCH" - and it's coming out next year - but that chipset is only for cannonlake processors, except there are (apparently) none of those planned for desktop.
So, do you buy an i7-8700k now and put it on a z370, knowing that you might be missing out on some new features in 2018, like bluetooth 5 and wifi ac being built into the chipset itself?
The whole thing is messy and awkward to follow, it's only gotten worse the past few years.
Honestly, I think the best thing to do, if you're capable is to stop reading the news about this stuff and just buy what's best when you need a new machine. It's endlessly time consuming and confusing to be an educated consumer with PC stuff. (I should know, I've wasted possibly years of my life googling / reading this rubbish since I first started building my own machines 20 years ago)
But the long and short of it is, stuff just isn't improving at a fantastic rate anymore. Even if you're silly rich, you can't buy a machine that utterly decimates other machines easily. People can get 60 to 80% of your performance for 1/4 or less.
Nah, I'll wait.
You're wrong. Bannon and pals will impose their segregationist ways on Trump who will make all motherboards and CPUs live separate but equal lives. The evangelicals will insist that a CPU and motherboard must stay together for life - though you're allowed to upgrade if one of them dies.
I'm still waiting for quad-core Arduino ATmega328P.
#DeleteFacebook
Socket 7 stuck around for 3-5 years. Slot 1 was a bit shorter, but it was pin compatible with Socket 370 if you could get converters. Socket 370 stuck around until Intel sued its last remaining compatible clone, which was VIA technologies, leading to VIA no longer producing Intel pinned CPU chips (there was a big lawsuit over it. VIA's 478 pin chips might have been P4 compatible using a non-traditional pin layout, as I believe their later 370 pin EPIA soldered down chips were.)
Intel's intentional incompatibility is personally responsible for every socket change since Socket 8. (Socket 8 to SLOT1 to Socket 370 was due to an inability to get faster clocked cache RAM to package internally to the CPUs, leading to cpus with only L1 cache and off-package cache RAM on the SLOT1/2 card. AMD did the same thing that generation since Intel wouldn't license the SLOT-1 format/bus to them.) This is precisely what lead to the loss of numerous motherboard and chipset design companies in the mid to late 90s and resulting in a per-vendor monoculture by the late 2000s (Socket 775 being the last independent motherboards for Intel, with VIA, ATI, and Nvidia producing chipsets, and I believe similiar on the AMD side, before becoming essentially one vendor each with the Intel chips on the Intel side, and AMD on the AMD side (with a few straggling Nvidia chipsets making it onto AM2+/AM3 motherboards, possible even a few AM3+ compatible boards since the split pane power supply didn't require direct chipset support.)
The biggest period of churn for Intel CPUs was the late 80s to early 90s when they went through sockets 3-7 for the 486/Pentium, prior to that package changes were only made out of necessity, whether increases in i/o related pins, or instability due to insufficient power/ground pin pairs. Additionally they used to be required to be second sourced for military and other contracts, which is how we eventually ended up with the huge and diverse hardware ecosystem that made the 90s *THE* time to kitbash x86 computer systems.
I upgrade for each new generation of memory. I will soon upgrade to a DDR4 based system.
Wait for the new standard to hit price parity, then grab whatever CPU is at the best price/performance point. New faster PCI or whatever, sure. Give me the new fast RAM!
All computing comes down to bandwidth. Memory bandwidth is always the first roadblock. Then disk, and later network.
Yes, about every 4-5 years. Shrug, works for me!
SSD was my only upgrade in about 4 years!
The law is a weapon of the government, not a protection for the likes of you. Surely you understand that.
Why same socket then?
They need to add more pci-e lanes / boost the DMI link speed. Just going to 6 cores at the top end seems like an other kaby lake x joke.
AMD is killing them and AMD has more pci-e lanes at all levels (other then maybe an 4 cpu Intel system that cost will be way higher at least X2 or more then an good amd server system)
IF they added more pci-e in a new socket then it's not so bad more like it's about time they moved off of LGA 1151 / 1150 they are just about the same in number of pci-e lanes / ram channels.
ftfy
"We've been building desktop systems for less than 5 years and don't have a access to memories that would tell us how normal this was, just a generation or two ago. Besides, they're just products, technological development is arbitrary, at least linear and definitely guaranteed."
I just come here to alternate between feeling guilty for feeling superior and crying into my hands at peoples' estimation of others' intelligence.
Intel is thrashing around. They've moved from "you want our stuff because it's the best" to, "you're going to buy our stuff because we'll make deals with people you buy computers from". That's not well described, and I'm not an expert (my computing needs are modest) but I've seen this happen before with other tech and non-tech companies. They get big and powerful, and they forget it was willing buyers who made them that way. As far as I'm concerned, you can put me down as a default AMD customer for my next upgrade. I will stay away from Intel until I see some sign that they've remembered the customer comes first. I currently own three computers, two with Intel processors, one with AMD. One I built from components, the other two have been upgraded one way or another...more RAM, SSD drives, better power supply, etc.
It's about time for me to retire the oldest computer and replace my everyday one with something better. Normally, I'd have looked at both AMD and Intel for my upgrade/replacement. Not anymore.
I've calculated my velocity with such exquisite precision that I have no idea where I am.
Intel and AMD don't realize, apparently, that allowing backdoor spyware means the eventual end of their companies.
The secret agencies of the U.S. government don't know or don't care that their secret, often badly-managed, activities cause people to avoid buying U.S. products.
When an organization has secrecy, good management is not necessary because bad management is not detectable.
The most likely reason they are introducing a new socket + chipset instead of reusing the older Kaby Lake one is power delivery. All the Kaby Lake boards had their Voltage Regulator networks designed to accommodate dual and quad core CPUs. It would not be at all surprising if the max Vcore current on these new six-core parts is higher than the quad core parts. Since Intel can't retroactively patch old motherboard's VR networks, they are just introducing a one or two pin socket change to differentiate between the old and the new.
I honestly like this approach a bit better than AMD's... you always know that all LGA CPUs will work in all motherboards with that socket. No need to check if your AM3+ socket mobo is new enough to work with the new AM4 CPUs instead of the old ones. Also, no problems with getting a board that will work with the new CPUs in theory... but is unable to boot up with a new CPU until the BIOS is updated... but how do you update the BIOS if you don't have an older CPU to boot the board and run the update utility?
That probably came off as teaching an old dog - you know all of that stuff - my post was really just addressing the situation of a single fast core running a single thread versus multiple cores - less relevant than it used to be but some stuff still pegs a CPU at 100% leaving the user to wait around and doesn't have another thread when it can.
Now that the average software developer has finally grasped 64 bit and is starting to get a feel for multiple threads that difficult problem will be chipped away at a bit at a time, just as it has been in fields were software developers have had multiple CPUs since the 1990s.
Intel just keeps giving me more and more reasons to make sure my next CPU purchase in AMD. Add another one to the pile. Well done, Intel.
Seven puppies were harmed during the making of this post.
Intel has always been doing this. However, I'm not so sure the upgrade problem is that much of a problem in real life.
I always build my own PCs and typically go for the best performance-per-euro solution. I have often looked into upgrades, but hardly ever were such impossible-due-to-socket-changes-upgrades really worth it from a performance-per-euro point of view. It's almost always a better idea to save your money and buy a new cpu+ram+mobo combo a year later than to upgrade now.
Upgrading might be interesting if you bought crap in the first place (e.g. Celeron or Pentium) but you should not buy these things to begin with.
I do often upgrade, though, but that's invariably through recombining second hand hardware. Otherwise it's just not worth the trouble.
0x or or snor perron?!
They're saying not compatible. What this likely means is a change in pin layout.
As opposed to AMD's "AM#" motherboard which more or less have compatible pinouts,
and are generally within a firmware upgrade away from supporting next generation's CPUs on previous generation's motherboards (though lacking support for the feature introduced with the newest "AM#" platform).
"Sufficiently advanced satire is indistinguishable from reality." - [Tips: 1DrYakQDKCQ6y52z6QbnkxHXAocMZJE61o ]
*rolls in pig shit*
FTFY
The logic of the article doesn't follow: Users can't upgrade and so they will jump ship to AMD where they have to, you guessed it, replace their motherboard anyway because AMD motherboards are completely different from Intel motherboards - even the CPU sockets are different! The only rational explanation is the story was written by an AMD fan and/or company representative.
My biggest issue w/ Civ6 is how constrained it has been. In previous versions of the game - aside from I & II, you could name your leader, your civilization, your cities. Civ 4 was the best - they had a scenario editor where you could start all the players you wanted in certain spots, preload them w/ whatever units, money, cities & resources you wanted, including renaming anything right from the base game, and then play. In Civ V, there never was a scenario editor: the closest to it was a mod called IGE (in-game editor), which was buggy: if one wants to do True Starting Locations on a map, one can't do that w/ enemy units.
But Civ 6 is even worse. You can't rename your leader, you can't rename your tribe: you have to depend on other people having already released mods, and the Civ 6 people have been horrible about releasing any scenario editors. And a number of the mods are pretty buggy, and won't allow a game to start if they are enabled. As for the length of the game, the way I've gotten around it somewhat has been to play a game up to a point, save, resume another day from that point and so on.
Intel is likely looking at this in terms of market size, potential income, etc. That's like using only technical analysis (looking exclusively at the random charts trying to find patterns in the noise) for your stock trades.
The people they are talking about are the more technically proficient users among consumers, their perceptions of the superiority of one platform vs another are what drive the decisions everyone else makes and repeats to those who think they are the "technical guy" and it spreads from there... if that consensus lasts for 2-3 years in AMD's favor the consumer market will have shifted by at least 60%. Right now AMD has the technically superior platform both on the consumer side AND the server side (which is a first for them) not only are their chips faster, they are also cheaper. If they can largely maintain that for 3 years, and can at least maintain parity for another 2-4 years beyond that they will have made a similar dent in the server market where the real money is. Intel's methods for calculating TDP result in lower numbers vs average power actually consumed than those of AMD, if AMD picks up on this trick and begins using a comparable TDP calculation Intel will be at serious risk.
That should scare the crap out of intel. AMD has had a massive almost cult-like mindshare among this class of users who remember well when AMD was on top and how much nicer it was to interact with AMD culture than Intel's, this type of user has been silently lurking waiting to pounce on the opportunity to praise AMD again. These are technical users, they haven't denied Intel has ruled the processing platform since the core 2 duo but AMD similarly owned the market while Intel milked higher priced and slower Pentium II/III/IV chips for years counting on their brand and server market clout prior to that. A fundamental AMD architecture revamp that puts them in the lead is just what many have been certain would happen eventually.
P.S. Ignorant people who traded AMD stock down to $2/share with intel at $55/share, the earnings potential was never that significant regardless of the current marketshare of Intel. Analyst look at AMD "growth" to $13-14/share in the past year and freak out about the "bubble", that isn't a bubble, it is a partial market correction recognizing the potential of the brand. Everyone I know making recommendations in the Enterprise space was shocked at that discrepancy and most recognized the opportunity and purchased AMD stock when they saw how underpriced it was before AMD even announced it's new architecture. It was always just a matter of time before AMD released an update ahead of Intel and we all buy the superior technology at purchase time.
P.S.S. We were mining bitcoin with AMD GPUs six years ago... congrats stock market drones on discovering this after mining had already moved on to custom ASICs years before and trading on the news as if it were just happening today.
different socket is okay Only with more pci-e or better DMI. Not just 1152 or 1151B that just locks out the older boards.
"If consumers are forced to dump an existing Z270 motherboard for a newer Z370 to get a six-core Coffee Lake CPU, Intel risks driving them into the arms of AMD and its Ryzen CPUs."
you know...."forcing" them to buy a new processor and motherboard... ...which likely won't be compatible with all new AMD processors down the road..
lol
Sorry Intel, but I can't not read that as Coffee Cake CPU.
"The vast majority of new CPU sales are in new systems, and they likely won't be impacted by the incompatibility."
In short; it doesn't actually matter.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
intel locked out nvida from making chipsets for intel cpus.
nvidia ion had good video.
and an AMD system at half the cost will have the same power with more pci-e lanes.
AMD next socket change will be for PCI-E 4.0.
Those poor consumers my heart bleeds for them.
also Socket 5 CPU can be placed in a Socket 7 motherboard.
later there was an Super Socket 7 that worked with older cups and new Super Socket 7 cpus would work in Socket 7 boards at lower speeds.
the pig that rolls around in his own piss and shit
Ftfy
At the time I wanted a motherboard with Geforce 8200 chipset for AMD CPUs, and they stopped making these.
You still can buy a motherboard with geforce 7025, which is a renamed geforce 6150 chipset. Updated with support for FX AM3+ CPUs. But a geforce 6 is less desirable than a geforce 8.
I did have a 8400GS eventually (PCIe graphics card), then another. I got what I wanted, geforce 8 had perfect texture filtering for my old games. But they died due to the lead-free solder problem.
Geforce 6100/6150/7025 has had a 11-year run! AM2, AM2+, AM3, AM3+ sockets just required the chipset speak Hypertransport and so it was possible to use the same chipset for a decade.
You can go geforce 7025 + FX 8320E and 16GB RAM if you don't want UEFI and security processor, at the cost of higher power use than Intel or modern AMD platforms. The power use also affects reliability - don't use a 125 watt processor, if possible get the best motherboard with geforce 7025 or AMD 760G that you can find, make sure the VRMs have good airflow or add heatsinks to them.
I hope this can make my post not useless. If you have a paranoid requirement about backdoored "security" processor, have a look at nvidia chipset + AMD CPU!
The $10K and more CPUs will go into 4-socket and 8-socket systems whereas the new AMD is 2-socket only (but with a ton of I/O and RAM so it's an apt replacement for an older 4-socket system)
The "Platinum" is for what IBM called "midrange computers" i.e. the market of Itanium, POWER and Sparc. Formerly they had the Nehalem-EX and successors for the same use, Xeon E7 family. Same thing but they had a different socket than mainstream Xeon E5.
We mostly don't need these things but if anything, perhaps they will have more availability as standalone motherboard and CPU retail parts so if you really need 3TB or 6TB memory on a single system instead of 1TB or 2TB, it could be possible.
Did you underclock that Q6600? I have a "shitty" dual core AMD and ended up doing that, even though it's doesn't use very much power (it's similar to a mid range core 2 duo in power and power)
Now it runs at 1.1 volt or something when loaded up.
This is a good for lazyness - I don't have to fix the cooling and I won't be shamed into buying a newer more power efficient system.
So I recommend doing this and you'll be doing as good or better than the idiots who think they're saving the planet by buying a new applebook mac or a hybrid car.
So because intel wants to have their next chip have more pins to facilitate better chips, it will make builds get mad that they can't use their existing motherboards. Which in turn will make them not go with Intel but with AMD, which means they would have to get new motherboards anyway?
https://neohouse.vn/du-an/nha-...
https://neohouse.vn/
I had coffee laked motherboards 10 years ago, they weren't compatible with anything afterwards, and only made blue smoke.
I am the unwilling control for my Origin.