Slashdot Mirror
Google Engineer's Leaked 'Gender Diversity' Essay Draws Massive Response (medium.com)
An anonymous reader writes: An engineer at Google's Mountain View headquarters circulated a 3,400-word essay internally that argued a "moral bias" exists at Google that's "shaming dissenters" and silencing their voices against "encroaching extremist and authoritarian policies." It attributes the gender gap in technology to biology-based differences in abilities (such as "speaking up" and "leading") and different personality traits (including "neuroticism"). Its suggested remedies include "Stop alienating conservatives" (calling it "non-inclusive" and "bad business because conservatives tend to be higher in conscientiousness"), and it also suggests as a solution to "de-emphasize empathy" (which "causes us to focus on anecdotes, favor individuals similar to us, and harbor other irrational and dangerous biases").
As the essay leaked over the weekend, former Google engineer Yonatan Zunger identified its anonymous author as "not someone senior," saying the author didn't seem to understand gender -- or engineering -- or what's going to happen next. "Essentially, engineering is all about cooperation, collaboration, and empathy for both your colleagues and your customers. If someone told you that engineering was a field where you could get away with not dealing with people or feelings, then I'm very sorry to tell you that you have been lied to... It's true that women are socialized to be better at paying attention to people's emotional needs and so on -- this is something that makes them better engineers, not worse ones... You need to learn the difference between 'I think we should adopt Go as our primary language' and 'I think one-third of my colleagues are either biologically unsuited to do their jobs, or if not are exceptions and should be suspected of such until they can prove otherwise to each and every person's satisfaction.'"
The leaked internal essay is now being discussed in literally dozens of news outlets. Click through for some official responses, including leaked reactions from Google's VP of Engineering, from Google's new VP of Diversity, Integrity & Governance -- and from Slashdot's readers.
Google's new VP of Diversity, Integrity & Governance -- who started just a few weeks ago -- responded internally that the document "advanced incorrect assumptions about gender," saying it's not a viewpoint Google endorses or encourages, and adding that "Changing a culture is hard, and it's often uncomfortable."
Zunger seemed to agree in part, writing sympathetically that "One very important true statement which this manifesto makes is that male gender roles remain highly inflexible, and that this is a bug, not a feature. In fact, I suspect that this is the core bug which prompted everything else within this manifesto to be written."
Google VP of Engineering Ari Balogh also responded internally that "we want to continue fostering an environment where it's safe to engage in challenging conversations in a thoughtful way. But, in the process of doing that, we cannot allow stereotyping and harmful assumptions to play any part. One of the aspects of the post that troubled me deeply was the bias inherent in suggesting that most women, or men, feel or act a certain way. That is stereotyping, and it is harmful."
Long-time Slashdot reader Lauren Weinstein believes that leaking the internal memo to the outside world was a major breach of trust that will do more damage. But he also links to an earlier essay which argues "The men of computer science and the computer industry are misogynous jerks. Not all of them of course. Likely not even the majority. But enough to thoroughly poison the well."
As the essay leaked over the weekend, former Google engineer Yonatan Zunger identified its anonymous author as "not someone senior," saying the author didn't seem to understand gender -- or engineering -- or what's going to happen next. "Essentially, engineering is all about cooperation, collaboration, and empathy for both your colleagues and your customers. If someone told you that engineering was a field where you could get away with not dealing with people or feelings, then I'm very sorry to tell you that you have been lied to... It's true that women are socialized to be better at paying attention to people's emotional needs and so on -- this is something that makes them better engineers, not worse ones... You need to learn the difference between 'I think we should adopt Go as our primary language' and 'I think one-third of my colleagues are either biologically unsuited to do their jobs, or if not are exceptions and should be suspected of such until they can prove otherwise to each and every person's satisfaction.'"
The leaked internal essay is now being discussed in literally dozens of news outlets. Click through for some official responses, including leaked reactions from Google's VP of Engineering, from Google's new VP of Diversity, Integrity & Governance -- and from Slashdot's readers.
Google's new VP of Diversity, Integrity & Governance -- who started just a few weeks ago -- responded internally that the document "advanced incorrect assumptions about gender," saying it's not a viewpoint Google endorses or encourages, and adding that "Changing a culture is hard, and it's often uncomfortable."
Zunger seemed to agree in part, writing sympathetically that "One very important true statement which this manifesto makes is that male gender roles remain highly inflexible, and that this is a bug, not a feature. In fact, I suspect that this is the core bug which prompted everything else within this manifesto to be written."
Google VP of Engineering Ari Balogh also responded internally that "we want to continue fostering an environment where it's safe to engage in challenging conversations in a thoughtful way. But, in the process of doing that, we cannot allow stereotyping and harmful assumptions to play any part. One of the aspects of the post that troubled me deeply was the bias inherent in suggesting that most women, or men, feel or act a certain way. That is stereotyping, and it is harmful."
Long-time Slashdot reader Lauren Weinstein believes that leaking the internal memo to the outside world was a major breach of trust that will do more damage. But he also links to an earlier essay which argues "The men of computer science and the computer industry are misogynous jerks. Not all of them of course. Likely not even the majority. But enough to thoroughly poison the well."
Talk about a useless position.
Those that are criticizing the essay seem to be missing the points it makes. Primary among them is that males and females have different interests and therefore tend to pursue different careers which could account for a lot of the so-called gender gaps in the tech sector. And the author is right, there are relationships between personality traits and political leanings. Jordan Peterson has written a lot about this and his YouTube videos are well worth watching. He makes the case that the notion of equity or equality of outcome in all sectors is a dangerous one. It doesn't mean females can't be good engineers, rather than few females might be going into engineering cause they have different interests and hiring so you always have 50% male and 50% female may not lead to the best outcomes.
If I can be modded down for being a troll, can I be modded up for being an orc, or a balrog?
One point where the author is spot on is the overwhelming efforts to silence any other viewpoints. Loom no further than the response to this memo. On twitter, a prominent tech entrepreneur said he thinks the real problem isn't the memo's content but that the author thought it was okay to share it at a place like Google. Isn't that exactly the point the author makes?
I also found interesting his point about how we feel differently about seeking 50-50 gender representation in manual labor occupations and work related deaths.
These topics are worthy of discussion. The "we must get girls to code" push always seemed worthy of skepticism. But there is no real debate in this area, and raising questions gets you labeled unfairly and possibly fired.
One thing is for sure: this guy's career is over. He will be doxxed by some news org who apparently does remember how to do investigative journalism when it comes to random civilians expressing a politically incorrect opinion. And the pitchforks will come out from the SJWs and no company -- certainly google -- wants to get mixed up in that PR nightmare. Game over, bro. Hope it was worth it.
Google VP of Engineering Ari Balogh "One of the aspects of the post that troubled me deeply was the bias inherent in suggesting that most women, or men, feel or act a certain way. That is stereotyping, and it is harmful."
Feminist idiot Lauren Weinstein : "The men of computer science and the computer industry are misogynous jerks. "
Deal with the sexist feminists, realise that when people use factual arguments to prove them wrong, they are not being sexist.
Men and women are different and enjoy doing different things. FACT.
This is the sort of thing that lands in history books as an example of the backwardness of previous generations.
Obliteracy: Words with explosions
The VP released a memo to media publically doxxing him.Proves one of his points attempt to silence dissent or different opinions.
Excellent example. I do not even remember gender ever coming up in the systemd "debate" (well, more "train-wreck"), except as a completely made-up accusation against its enemies. Of course, if you want to discredit somebody, even the most basic propaganda manual states to associate them with anything that is deemed unacceptable in society. For example, say, in Germany around 70 years ago, it would have been stated that "the Jews" were against systemd, with about as much validity to it. Or in the US a bit later, it would have been "the communists".
I do know a few pretty good women scientists and engineers. I respect them. I recently encouraged my employer to hire one of them. I also think that systemd is an engineering abomination and that the community has dropped the ball there to an extreme degree.
Most ACs are not even worth the keystrokes to insult them. Be generically insulted by this and ignored otherwise.
Release the hounds!
Social Justice Diversity Warriors have to be some of the least tolerant people on the planet.
46137
This stuff has gotten so silly at this point that it's hardly even worth attacking anymore. It would be pure comic gold if it weren't so Orwellian and real people weren't losing their jobs and even facing actual jail time over this insane bullshit.
I just hope the people who designed the bridge I drive over every day didn't think that "engineering is all about cooperation, collaboration, and empathy for both your colleagues and your customers."
SJW: Someone who has run out of real oppression, and has to fake it.
Thank heaven we have the Google VP of Diversity, Integrity & Governance to challenge the old-fashioned idea that engineering is about stuff like mathematics, metallurgy, tolerances, formulas, algorithms, etc. That sort of thinking is so old-school!
Keep your "math" there, old-man Hitler. Progressives know that real engineering is all about empathy!
SJW: Someone who has run out of real oppression, and has to fake it.
Same bias here at slashdot - it's why I post anonymous from now on. It's not that I'm a coward; it's just not worth the time dealing with the leftwing retribution via the rating system simply because I disagree with leftwing orthodoxy.
What annoys me is that tech is not that bad for women. Sure, there are pockets of harassment, and even some really bad things happen, but that's everywhere.
If you really want to make a difference in how women are treated, look at sales. Utterly harassing towards women. Look at bankers! Look at doctors. Inappropriate advances by men having more power? It's there! While people in the tech industry complain about dongle jokes, the building/developer industry is actually groping women. Our president is!
Compared to all those communities, programmers are basically saints. The focus is in the wrong area.
"First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
Well, then I hope at least one person on that team realized that engineering also involves things like mathematics, metallurgy, wind resonance, modeling, etc.--not just feelings.
SJW: Someone who has run out of real oppression, and has to fake it.
I just hope the people who designed the bridge I drive over every day didn't think that "engineering is all about cooperation, collaboration, and empathy for both your colleagues and your customers."
Jesus fucking H. Christ on a bike I do!
No one is capable of designing a large bridge single handed which means it can only get done with huge amounts of cooperation and collaboration. And yes empathy for your colleagues too because cooperation and collaboration is awfully hard without them. This is partly because every engineer has staggeringly huge areas of ignorance because it's such a huge field, and yet those people have to work together to build things which means empathy, not neckbeardy rants.
Engineering is, after all, the art of compromise.
If you're not compromising, you're not engineering.
SJW n. One who posts facts.
making poor technical or unethical decisions just to "win", and a winner-takes-all attitude where being anything less than the champion, the alpha-male, is failure and shameful.
That doesn't sound anything like masculinity, which is about inherent strength and self-reliance and has nothing to do with notions of victory or dominance.
What it does sound an AWFUL lot like is projection, as you have outlined the very basis of thought for the modern left. No person of differing ideology can every win against the group-mind, and nothing can ever be shared from the Great Bounty Of the State, it is only for those that belong to the club.
The only thing being rejected is a straw-man, so that you can worship the new straw-man propped up by a different farmer.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
Social Justice Diversity Warriors have to be some of the least tolerant people on the planet.
You seem to misunderstand tolerance. Tolerance is a peace treaty not a suicide pact. Once one side breaks the peace, it's gone.
https://extranewsfeed.com/tole...
SJW n. One who posts facts.
What annoys me is that tech is not that bad for women. [...] If you really want to make a difference in how women are treated [...]
I quite agree! We should only ever worry about this guy's problems:
www.smbc-comics.com/comic/2011-07-22www.smbc-comics.com/comic/2011-07-22www.smbc-comics.com/comic/2011-07-22
SJW n. One who posts facts.
It doesn't matter if the design is correct if the rebar isn't inspected correctly because the site engineer had a shouting match with the inspection company foreman.
If your emotions get in the way of inspecting rebar, you need to be fired immediately because you are incompetent. People will die as a result of your emotional problems.
You think I'm going to post that logged in? Hell no
Empathy doesn't fucking enter into it. You know what's good for cooperation and collaboration? Effective leadership.
Understanding where your people are coming from and etc (ya know, empathy) is what makes it possible to lead effectively.
SJW n. One who posts facts.
I'm expecting that the author will be hounded out of his job by the end of next week, and Google will have a major witch hunt against anyone who fails to denounce him angrily enough.
Then, he'll sue for wrongful termination, google will settle for a mid six-figure sum and get a gag order.
-jcr
The only title of honor that a tyrant can grant is "Enemy of the State."
linking to anything by Vox Day
Who, after all is a witch, right?
While I'm sure that in your social milieu, simply saying "oh, it's Vox Day" is taken as a complete rebuttal to any points he might have made, to those of us who actually expect people to argue their positions with cogent points, you just look like a knee-jerking twat.
-jcr
The only title of honor that a tyrant can grant is "Enemy of the State."
Obviously you don't agree. Unfortunately you don't have any logical reason to disagree, so you make a joke out of it.
Sorry, if you have a rational argument, I'll discuss it with you. If you're just going to make jokes, then it's not a discussion.
"First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
Speaking for structural engineers, that's college stuff. EVERYBODY on the team knows it. Budgets, schedules, coordination of six contractors, placating government inspectors...that's the "project management" piece, which is adult-hard. And women are often better at.
Why the flying fuck is it not sexist and dismissive to say women are better at something than men, but if you say men are better at some things than women, you risk losing your job and dozens of news outlets tear apart your reasoning?
The hypocrisy and indoctrination is at levels the Catholic church would be proud of.
Here's a funny thing: Medicine, Law, and Engineering were also fields that were over 90% male - women had to "break in". And don't imagine they didn't have to push past a lot of sexism and belittling and interrupting.
There was one woman in my 50-man engineering class of 1980; I saw the first woman hired as P.Eng. in my workplace in 1993. By the time I left, five of my last six bosses had been women (2003-2017), and in two cases, THEIR bosses had been women; I'd say they're now a third of the shop. I think this generation has to put up with much less prejudice and belittling (from their women boss, for sure).
Medicine and Law have been half women for a while now.
Then there's IT. Happens I also got a CompSci degree, 1985. A third of my class were women and it was widely assumed it would hit 50% by 1990 or so. And it WAS doing pretty well in the 1990s, then the female participation rate plummeted after the dot-bomb and has never really recovered.
The driving force here, I think, is not poisonous culture, but money. Medicine and Law were rapidly integrated because they are the best-paid jobs in society, and women kept pushing, hard; they had cause. Engineering is mostly better-paid than IT, at least the actual coding jobs.
It's the same as that thing about women not going in to drywall; obviously the best-paid, relative to work pain, jobs will be the most attractive. Coding has become way less attractive lately. Oh, and it's not a licensed profession, like medicine, law, engineering...that may have something to do with both its attractiveness and stability, too.
But, sure, I'll give you that society doesn't exactly hold IT-related interests on a platter. But what does that mean really? Some jokes in movies and TV shows about nerds? Maybe women don't flock to us? How many times do you really experience an active outward action where someone belittled you for being in CS/engineering? A few jerks here and there? Those are the people he should be mad at - the people who actively picked on him and made him supposedly worthy of our compassion.
A "few" jokes? Listen to those jokes. Some are how "geeky" nerds are but most are how nerds get mentally and physically assaulted. I've known one person who actually committed suicide because of it. Right after Columbine, I heard many stories about such treatment resulting in suicide attempts.
Hell to show everyone he is not a total nerd Woz shelled out shit load of cash to pay for the US festival.
The same crew that claims traditional religion is horseshit has created their own called secular humanism. And it will brook no dissent.
Don't group all atheists with those bag of dicks who get their feelings hurt whenever someone disagrees with them. Speaking as an atheist, the clear majority of us don't care for identity politics, and we don't go around telling our friends and families that their beliefs are wrong.
For example, I'm openly atheist, and married to a woman who follows two major religions (Catholicism and Hinduism), and yet we have no problems. It's because, unlike those asshole thought-police above who want to silent opposing opinions, we (current wife and I) grew up instead.
The people you are angry with are not assholes because you're christian, they're assholes because they're assholes.
In much the same way, the hard-left crowd who will attack and shame free thinkers aren't doing so because of the free-thinkers, they're doing it because they're assholes.
I'm a minority race. Save your vitriol for white people.