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Google Fires Author of Divisive Memo On Gender Differences (bloomberg.com)

An anonymous reader quotes a report from Bloomberg: Alphabet Inc.'s Google has fired an employee who wrote an internal memo blasting the web company's diversity policies, creating a firestorm across Silicon Valley. James Damore, the Google engineer who wrote the note, confirmed his dismissal in an email, saying that he had been fired for "perpetuating gender stereotypes." Earlier on Monday, Google CEO Sundar Pichai sent a note to employees that said portions of the memo "violate our Code of Conduct and cross the line by advancing harmful gender stereotypes in our workplace." But he didn't say if the company was taking action against the employee. A Google representative, asked about the dismissal, referred to Pichai's memo. Damore's 10-page memorandum accused Google of silencing conservative political opinions and argued that biological differences play a role in the shortage of women in tech and leadership positions. It circulated widely inside the company and became public over the weekend, causing a furor that amplified the pressure on Google executives to take a more definitive stand. After the controversy swelled, Danielle Brown, Google's new vice president for diversity, integrity and governance, sent a statement to staff condemning Damore's views and reaffirmed the company's stance on diversity. In internal discussion boards, multiple employees said they supported firing the author, and some said they would not choose to work with him, according to postings viewed by Bloomberg News.

36 of 1,416 comments (clear)

  1. And then Google says... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

    Here's what Google said internally, according to TechCrunch:

    This has been a very difficult few days. I wanted to provide an update on the memo that was circulated over this past week.

    First, let me say that we strongly support the right of Googlers to express themselves, and much of what was in that memo is fair to debate, regardless of whether a vast majority of Googlers disagree with it. However, portions of the memo violate our Code of Conduct and cross the line by advancing harmful gender stereotypes in our workplace. Our job is to build great products for users that make a difference in their lives. To suggest a group of our colleagues have traits that make them less biologically suited to that work is offensive and not OK. It is contrary to our basic values and our Code of Conduct, which expects “each Googler to do their utmost to create a workplace culture that is free of harassment, intimidation, bias and unlawful discrimination.”

    The memo has clearly impacted our co-workers, some of whom are hurting and feel judged based on their gender. Our co-workers shouldn’t have to worry that each time they open their mouths to speak in a meeting, they have to prove that they are not like the memo states, being “agreeable” rather than “assertive,” showing a “lower stress tolerance,” or being “neurotic.”

    At the same time, there are co-workers who are questioning whether they can safely express their views in the workplace (especially those with a minority viewpoint). They too feel under threat, and that is also not OK. People must feel free to express dissent. So to be clear again, many points raised in the memo — such as the portions criticizing Google’s trainings, questioning the role of ideology in the workplace, and debating whether programs for women and underserved groups are sufficiently open to all — are important topics. The author had a right to express their views on those topics — we encourage an environment in which people can do this and it remains our policy to not take action against anyone for prompting these discussions.

    The past few days have been very difficult for many at the company, and we need to find a way to debate issues on which we might disagree — while doing so in line with our Code of Conduct. I’d encourage each of you to make an effort over the coming days to reach out to those who might have different perspectives from your own. I will be doing the same.

    I have been on work related travel in Africa and Europe the past couple of weeks and had just started my family vacation here this week. I have decided to return tomorrow as clearly there’s a lot more to discuss as a group — including how we create a more inclusive environment for all.

    So please join me, along with members of the leadership team at a town hall on Thursday. Check your calendar soon for details.

    1. Re:And then Google says... by jarkus4 · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I have been on work related travel in Africa and Europe the past couple of weeks and had just started my family vacation here this week. I have decided to return tomorrow as clearly there’s a lot more to discuss as a group — including how we create a more inclusive environment for all.

      And now we know why he was fired: due to his rant the CEO had to cut short his holidays. This is definitely a firing offense.

    2. Re:And then Google says... by phantomfive · · Score: 5, Insightful

      To suggest a group of our colleagues have traits that make them less biologically suited to that work is offensive and not OK.

      Did he actually suggest that women are less biologically suited to be programmers? My reading was he was trying to explain why women don't want to become programmers, not that they are less good at it when they choose to do so. I didn't read anywhere in the thing where it said women are worse programmers.

      --
      "First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
    3. Re:And then Google says... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      More importantly, POPULATION AVERAGES ARE NOT THE SAME AS AN INDIVIDUAL!!! For example, it's clear that ON AVERAGE more men appear to commit violent crimes. Does this mean that ALL men are more violent than all women? NO! You can have a super peaceful man who wouldn't hurt a fly and a woman who is a murderer. Google mischaracterized the memo very badly. The author did NOT suggest that this applies to ALL women. It's a very stupid way to miss the point and I will certainly avoid buying anything from Google while they are so fascist in their approach to RESPECTFUL DIFFERENCES OF OPINION. The guy was VERY NUANCED in what he said. Google's just being pathetic here.

    4. Re: And then Google says... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      All Google did was confirm that James was right about the intolerance of the SJW bullies who run the show.

      Fuck Google. I'm glad I don't use any of their products or services. Hopefully Microsoft will bury them.

    5. Re:And then Google says... by sessamoid · · Score: 5, Informative

      It seems like Google has made it clear that their work environment is definitively hostile towards anyone who dares question feminist dogma.

      Of course, the only way they'll learn that lesson is if they're taken to court over this, for unlawful firing.

      bwahahaha! "Unlawful firing"?

      California is an "at will" employment state. Short of discrimination against a protected class, you can be fired for anything or nothing at all. Anti-feminists are not a protected class.

      --
      "No, no, no. Don't tug on that. You never know what it might be attached to."
    6. Re:And then Google says... by superwiz · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Guess what? I am now not feeling 100% safe using Chrome. I am seriously going to look into switching back to Mozilla. I don't want to trust my browser binary to a company which has a clear political slant.

      --
      Any guest worker system is indistinguishable from indentured servitude.
    7. Re:And then Google says... by jandersen · · Score: 5, Insightful

      The backlash is coming, just look at the election of Trump which is the result of over-stressing the "minority" dogmas.

      No, the election of Trump WAS the backlash: that was frustrated people lashing out against an establishment, that they feel is stacking the deck against them. What is coming - and is already underway - is the realisation that Trump is just as much part of the establishment, and that trying to cure America's ailments by electing him is like overdosing on laxatives to cure diarrhea. And I don't think the people who keep ranting against PC and equal rights for minorities actually are against treating everbody fairly; they just want to feel that they themselves are being given a fair chance too, but their attention is being directed towards things that sound stupid, so they don't realise that it is the rich and powerful who are the real problem.

    8. Re: And then Google says... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      You still don't understand. Trump is a warning shot, not a consequence.

    9. Re: And then Google says... by michelcolman · · Score: 5, Funny

      Everyone knows that there are absolutely no differences between men and women. The only reason men have penises and women have breasts and vulvas is because society forces them into that mold. Biologically there is no difference, and anyone who claims otherwise is a male chauvinist pig.

    10. Re:And then Google says... by Mashiki · · Score: 5, Informative

      That's obviously not what he means. Let's dispense with the straw man arguments, okay?

      Except that's a fundamental talking point among the pro-diversity crowd. Disagreement = violence. Disagreement = hate speech. And so on. There's a thing among the social justice groupies that likes to redefine words, actions, and so on. Here's one I ran across the other day in reference to a male rape victim. They were told and to paraphrase: "You aren't a rape victim, you're a victim of forced sexual intercourse. Since rape can only be committed by people in positions of power. So only white men can rape." Enjoying that logic? It's not any different then the social justice advocates stating that it's impossible for a black to be racist, because racism requires privilege+power.

      The memo claims that women are more neurotic. It claims that this is biological. ... What shockingly ignorant, backward thinking set of concepts.

      It's factually accurate too, and it is biological -- hit a search engine you can find it across nearly every society to boot. So you're arguing against science now, and something that's been been backed up by decades of studies. To flip it around, I wouldn't have had a problem with him stating that men are more aggressive when it comes to negotiations either. Because that's factually correct too.

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      Om, nomnomnom...
    11. Re:And then Google says... by Mashiki · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Obviously you never even read his "rant". Instead you've concocted a straw man based on what you think he was saying instead of what he actually said, and have judged him based on the straw man rather than what he actually said.

      No, it's worse then that. They've concocted a straw man based on what they've been told by people who are pushing the agenda that he's anti-woman. This is exactly the same bullshit that was used against gamergate, when they pushed the narrative that the people who spoke up against shitty game journo's were "white males, who live in their parents basements and are misogynists."

      When presented with the exact opposite, like the women defending this guy's view? They ignore it, pretend they don't exist. Just like how the progressives ignored the minorities and women in gamergate, or simply called them house n*iggers, uncle toms, have internalized misogyny, and so on.

      You watch, and in the next 2 days you'll start seeing hit pieces against the people who spoke in favor or defended his views will be smeared, attacked, and dragged through the mud. And it won't surprise me if the "progressive 'we believe in free speech -- really' social justice" supporters, also try going after their jobs to boot.

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      Om, nomnomnom...
    12. Re: And then Google says... by Entrope · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Brendan Eich called. He wants his browser back...

    13. Re:And then Google says... by Mashiki · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Hiring someone because of their gender is not treating everyone equally. Hiring someone because of their sexuality isn't equality. Hiring someone based on their race isn't equality. But apparently in the land of political correctness and soc-jus, these are all forms of equality.

      That in truth, isn't equality. None of those people being treated as such are being treated as an equal, they're all being given special handicaps in order to get that position.

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      Om, nomnomnom...
    14. Re: And then Google says... by AmiMoJo · · Score: 5, Informative

      In the Iceland and New Zealand girls overtook boys in mathematics at school several years ago:

      http://webarchive.nationalarch...

      Page 85. The gap varies by country, thus cannot be entirely biological, maybe not even at all biological. Other research suggests that biology plays almost no part.

      --
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      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
    15. Re:And then Google says... by hsthompson69 · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Yes, I did read it. Did you?

      https://medium.com/@Cernovich/...

      "I hope it's clear that I'm not saying that diversity is bad, that Google or society is 100% fair, that we shouldn't try to correct for existing biases, or that minorities have the same experience of those in the majority. My larger point is that we have an intolerance for ideas and evidence that don't fit a certain ideology. I'm also not saying that we should restrict people to certain gender roles; I'm advocating for quite the opposite: treat people as individuals, not as just another member of their group (tribalism)."

      There is nothing in there that is offensive, full stop. Misrepresenting the respectful and dispassionate analysis this man did as bigoted or hateful can only happen through malice or ignorance.

  2. That's harsh by nikhilhs · · Score: 5, Insightful

    That seems harsh. Does this prove the part of his post about being scared to disagree?

    1. Re:That's harsh by sethstorm · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Yes.

      Not only did they fire him, they also encouraged others to virtue signal their retaliation against him.

      --
      Twitter supports and protects racists - by smearing their critics with the "Hate Speech" label.
    2. Re:That's harsh by Calydor · · Score: 5, Insightful

      No, virtue signalling is a kindergarten-level activity of stumbling over each other to be the first to lick the boots of whoever is considered 'right and true', as evidenced by the way an internal message board had people promising never to work with him again - AKA, "I don't wanna play with you EVER AGAIN because you were a meanie to my bestiest friend's sister's boyfriend's cousin's puppy!"

      --
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  3. Da Tovarisch Zampolit by sethstorm · · Score: 5, Informative

    After the controversy swelled, Danielle Brown, Google's new vice president for diversity, integrity and governance, sent a statement to staff condemning Damore's views and reaffirmed the company's stance on diversity. In internal discussion boards, multiple employees said they supported firing the author, and some said they would not choose to work with him, according to postings viewed by Bloomberg News.

    Looks like Google decided to help Damore make his case by reinforcing their bias against differing opinion. Science also supports (mirror) his conclusions.

    --
    Twitter supports and protects racists - by smearing their critics with the "Hate Speech" label.
    1. Re:Da Tovarisch Zampolit by hsthompson69 · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Thanks for the cites - this part from quillette stands out:

      "Here, I just want to take a step back from the memo controversy, to highlight a paradox at the heart of the ‘equality and diversity’ dogma that dominates American corporate life. The memo didn’t address this paradox directly, but I think it’s implicit in the author’s critique of Google’s diversity programs. This dogma relies on two core assumptions:

      * The human sexes and races have exactly the same minds, with precisely identical distributions of traits, aptitudes, interests, and motivations; therefore, any inequalities of outcome in hiring and promotion must be due to systemic sexism and racism;

      * The human sexes and races have such radically different minds, backgrounds, perspectives, and insights, that companies must increase their demographic diversity in order to be competitive; any lack of demographic diversity must be due to short-sighted management that favors groupthink."

      Never heard that paradox laid out so bare before.

  4. Actions speak louder than words. by Templer421 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Obey the party line or be fired and banned from the industry.

  5. Re:Freedom of speech by sethstorm · · Score: 5, Insightful

    To those supporting Google's termination, any deviation from the approved narrative is an emergency.

    --
    Twitter supports and protects racists - by smearing their critics with the "Hate Speech" label.
  6. Diversity officer == SV's Political Officers by sethstorm · · Score: 5, Insightful

    For such an "inclusive" and "tolerant" company, they sure are quite Soviet in their treatment of dissent.

    --
    Twitter supports and protects racists - by smearing their critics with the "Hate Speech" label.
    1. Re:Diversity officer == SV's Political Officers by Mashiki · · Score: 5, Informative

      Sure do. They've even got their ideological blacklists going on to boot. Sure is pretty authoritarian over there... Especially when people are saying well, that PhD biologist seems to have gotten it right.

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      Om, nomnomnom...
  7. This is hilarious in a very sad way by grungeman · · Score: 5, Insightful

    "At the same time, there are co-workers who are questioning whether they can safely express their views in the workplace (especially those with a minority viewpoint)."

    And to prove that their fears are well founded, Google will simply fire one of them. Got a minority conservative viewpoint? Don't you dare to express your view or suffer the consequences.

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    Signature deleted by lameness filter.
    1. Re:This is hilarious in a very sad way by Crashmarik · · Score: 5, Insightful

      As long as your minority point of view is not racist, sexist, or otherwise discriminatory... by all means express away!

      Come on, paradox of intolerance is not _that_ complicated to understand, is it?

      The man is a biologist are you honestly asserting there are no biological differences between men and women ? That there are no mental differences ?

      If that's the case what's with all the genders lately and transgenderism. Rather irreconcilable propositions there.

    2. Re:This is hilarious in a very sad way by poity · · Score: 5, Insightful

      The guy didn't even identify himself as a conservative. He only mentions them to make a point about the echo chamber. He identified himself as a liberal, and explicitly said he was PRO-diversity. His criticism was the WAY in which diversity is pursued at Google. Read the essay, he said it is right to encourage women into STEM, and to dismantle barriers, but he says that a 50/50 expectation is unrealistic based on the research he cites (which Gizmodo left out).

      --
      your thin skin doesn't make me a troll
    3. Re:This is hilarious in a very sad way by Kiuas · · Score: 5, Insightful

      What is claimed is that women, just like men, when put in an unthreatening environment, can work equally productively You probably don't realize how threatening a room full of strange men feels to many women.

      So your argument here is that women and men can work just as productively, with the exception that women cannot work with groups of strange men as that is 'threatening' to them by default? What?

      When I started working full-time fresh from school as a project lead, I felt uncomfortable going into meetings where the other participants were much older, much better paid, and many of them having the power to get me fired if I screw up (and many of these people were women). Do you think when I felt anxious and nervous because of this I just grabbed my dick and suddenly everything was perfect and the stress was gone? No, over time I learned to deal with these people and I learned that they're indeed nowhere near as hostile or threatening as I assumed, and that screwing up is not the end of the world if you have the guts to admit your mistakes. Even the bosses have once been rookies.

      You can't have it both ways and first proudly proclaim at first that men and women are all equal in their abilities, and then in the very next moment turn to 'but groups of men are scary to women so they need to be handled with extra-care'.That's not gender-equality in any sense of the word. As I wrote here yesterday on another story, it might still be feminism, but not all feminism is egalitarian..

      Now obviously it's better for everyone if no-one feels stressed, but my point here is that the stressful/'threatening' factors in a work environment arise from a multitude of factors, the most common of which is the tension between management and employees that often exists totally independent of the reproductive organs on either side of the table,

      I'm a female senior dev contractor in finance in London, and the banks pretty much get it right.

      Ah yes finance. That good old industry in which people feel totally at ease with each other and are not under pressure to out-perform their fellow men and women or feel threatened at all. I've heard wild stories about bouncy castles and finger painting going on in the high-level trader meetings. :P

      --
      "It is the business of the future to be dangerous" -Alfred North Whitehead
  8. Wrongful termination by oic0 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    If he takes them to court and can prove that his statements are scientifically backed at the statistical scale, they they aren't stereotypes and it would be wrongful termination right? I would LOVE to see that happen. So tired of the like that says everyone is genetically the same. It's literally shouting at proof to try and scare it into falsehood.

  9. Re: They did explain where he was wrong by getuid() · · Score: 5, Informative

    "Neurotic" as used in the memo is the opposite of poorly defined. It's one of the Big Five (see Wikipedia), a clearly defined axis in psychological personality analysis.

    But you're not the only person to misunderstand this. In fact it seems to be one of the main reasons for all the shitstorm. Seems like everyone takes offence to a word they didn't understand the meaning of - now isn't that ironic for said engineer, getting fired because his audience is too uneducated...

  10. Glad I'm not working there then by johannesg · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I mean, firing people over an _opinion_, formulated without aggression and without attacking anyone - that's harsh. I'd be scared shitless in such an environment that I might accidentally say something that bothers the SJWs and be fired for my troubles. And it's a great demo how, once again, "diversity" means "you'll agree with me or I'll silence you."

    An employer who acts like this is not worth working for.

  11. Re:They did explain where he was wrong by x0ra · · Score: 5, Informative

    And ? There is actual research showing that neuroticism affect women more than men, cf. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...

    But hey, I get it, it's "hate facts".

  12. It is not even a minority conservative viewpoint by aepervius · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I am not conservative , right winged. I am left winged (a look at my post history for the last 10 years should show that) and for TRUE equality of opportunity, something we did not have until recently with women and skin color minorities being suppressed consciously or unconsciously by the work environment, HR, and the various team leaders. But i am for a good discourse because women and men are different on how they handle situation, how they view social activities, and how they will have bias. This naturally impact on how they will for example chose a job, and while part of it is socially learned, part of it is inherent to sex (I avoid gender due to the pitfall of TG). And that is where I break peace with many of my friends on the left side. I am against equality of outcome. Because you then inherently 1) spit of all sex science and spit on the difference between women and men 2) add inefficiencies by having less good candidate over take better candidate to match an outcome "more women , more minorities". Naturally the converse is that since society move slowly, minorities and women would have been screwed for longer had we not have the equality of outcome. That may be true too. But that still does not make it right or better than equality of opportunity. But where it goes to the "wrong terribly wrong" deep end, is when you get fired for having this opinion like this seem to be in this case. Granted I did not read the full memo, but what I overflew seem to be quite clear : google bent over and fired him to avoid looking "sexist". And thus died any discourse right or left at google.

    --
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  13. Re:They did explain where he was wrong by poity · · Score: 5, Informative

    The word "neurotic" does not exist in the essay. He wrote this:

    Personality differences
    Women, on average, have more:

    -Openness directed towards feelings and aesthetics rather than ideas. Women generally also have a stronger interest in people rather than things, relative to men (also interpreted as empathizing vs. systemizing ).
      These two differences in part explain why women relatively prefer jobs in social or artistic areas. More men may like coding because it requires systemizing and even within SWEs, comparatively more women work on front end, which deals with both people and aesthetics.

    -Extraversion expressed as gregariousness rather than assertiveness. Also, higher agreeableness.
    This leads to women generally having a harder time negotiating salary, asking for raises, speaking up, and leading. Note that these are just average differences and there’s overlap between men and women, but this is seen solely as a women’s issue. This leads to exclusory programs like Stretch and swaths of men without support.

    -Neuroticism (higher anxiety, lower stress tolerance).
      -This may contribute to the higher levels of anxiety women report on Googlegeist and to the lower number of women in high stress jobs

    Taken from: https://motherboard.vice.com/e...

    He was the epitome of diplomatic civility in making his point. People read nefarious intent through their own biases and paranoia.

    --
    your thin skin doesn't make me a troll
  14. Gizmodo version left out the scholarly references by iliketrash · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Someone at Gizmodo should be shot or sued for editing the memo, "Google’s Ideological Echo Chamber," by removing the references—"hyperlinks," as they call them. The hyperlinks are to many scholarly journal pieces and otherwise respectable publications. Without the references to back up the author's claims, he just looks like a boob to most folks.

    Here is a link to a PDF that contains all the hyperlinks to references and also two missing figures left out from the Gizmodo version.

    https://assets.documentcloud.o...