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Microsoft Dismisses Consumer Reports' Surface Complaints, But Doesn't Offer Much Evidence

Microsoft has publicly responded to Consumer Reports, saying that it disagrees with the publication's Surface reliability findings. But the company hasn't offered much in the way of evidence. In a blog post, Surface chief Panos Panay writes: In the Surface team we track quality constantly, using metrics that include failure and return rates -- both our predicted 1-2-year failure and actual return rates for Surface Pro 4 and Surface Book are significantly lower than 25%. Additionally, we track other indicators of quality such as incidents per unit (IPU), which have improved from generation to generation and are now at record lows of well below 1%. Surface also ranks highly in customer satisfaction. 98% of Surface Pro 4 users and Surface Book users say they are satisfied with their device, and our Surface Laptop and new Surface Pro continue to get rave reviews. Long-time watcher Paul Thurrott writes: Does changing the time frame from "by the end of the second year of ownership" to "1-2 year failure rate" skew the results because more failures happen later in a product's lifetime? Also, he introduces the notion of "return rates" here. By definition, the feedback that Consumer Reports receives is from product owners, not those who have returned products. If someone is almost two years into device ownership, they are not returning the product. They're just using it. And dealing with it. So consider the issue muddled, in just one carefully-constructed sentence. Which I believe was crafted to confuse the issue. But there is more. "Additionally, we track other indicators of quality such as incidents per unit (IPU), which have improved from generation to generation and are now at record lows of well below 1 percent," Panay offers. It's not possible to understand how an "incident" relates to a "failure." Mostly because he doesn't explain the term. Likely because doing so would betray that this is an apples to oranges comparison. [...] I will point the reader to Welcome to Surfacegate, my description of Microsoft's feeble attempts to ignore and then slowly fix endemic issues with those exact two Surface models. And anecdotally, I'll point to the fact that the three Surface Book models I've used have all had reliability problems. But the biggest issue I have with "customer satisfaction" is that it's kind of a bullshit measurement when it comes to premium products.

10 of 66 comments (clear)

  1. Bathtub by Mr+D+from+63 · · Score: 2

    Does changing the time frame from "by the end of the second year of ownership" to "1-2 year failure rate" skew the results because more failures happen later in a product's lifetime?

    Failure rates typically follow a bathtub curve, where most manufacturing/design issues are found early in the product life, then age related failures start increasing late in the life cycle. In between is where failures are typically the lowest.

  2. Stuff that they don't track by postmortem · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Is why 3 generations of this device can't properly go to sleep mode. Every other wake is either: device dead or wifi dead.

    But of course, you can blame it to testing methodology...

    1. Re:Stuff that they don't track by the_skywise · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Hear hear - Although I don't have as much problems with sleep mode as I do with dead wifi or dead camera coming out of sleep mode.
      I've been trained to expect that from windows PC manufacturers as MS and the hardware vendors go back and forth. But here, MS produces both the hardware AND the software and you'd think they could at least resolve the problems after 2 years (SP4 user here).

    2. Re:Stuff that they don't track by TheCastro1689 · · Score: 2

      Nah, my windows phone was having issues too with shit they should have easily fixed. Windows 10 is just buggy as hell.

    3. Re:Stuff that they don't track by David_Hart · · Score: 2

      Hear hear - Although I don't have as much problems with sleep mode as I do with dead wifi or dead camera coming out of sleep mode.

      I've been trained to expect that from windows PC manufacturers as MS and the hardware vendors go back and forth. But here, MS produces both the hardware AND the software and you'd think they could at least resolve the problems after 2 years (SP4 user here).

      I have a Surface Pro 4 as well.

      I noticed early on that Bluetooth and WiFi were enabled during sleep by default and that they would drain the battery. I set these to be turned off during sleep. Now my battery life changes little during sleep mode. I haven't experienced a problem with WiFi not coming back up after sleep but I have seen occasional camera problems.

      I also tend to update the drivers as new releases come out. You can find the latest drivers at the link below. Looks like the latest version is from July 24th.
      https://www.microsoft.com/en-u...

    4. Re:Stuff that they don't track by the_skywise · · Score: 2

      pfft - I've got a wide screen monitor and about every other NVIDIA driver update seems to make Windows scrunch all the icons and apps to the left hand side during sleep mode because the resolution "changes" during sleep.
      I mainly blame NVIDIA for that (they get it right half the time!) but I don't see why the desktop doesn't remember where the positions WERE when the resolution comes back.
      (I suppose it could be the Asus monitor or a DisplayPort quirk too but I've seen similar behavior on friends' non-widescreen, non-Asus monitors with Displayport and a similar NVIDIA card)
      But, again, I've been "trained" to accept this quirky behavior because MS just writes the OS and it's up to the hardware vendors to dutifully ensure their components work within the experience.

  3. We began to switch our laptop pool over to Surface by pecosdave · · Score: 2

    We started with about eight Surface Pro 3's and being that I like to experiment with cost savings we got two of the Surface Non-Pro's with Atom processors inside to test for intern/assistant level stuff.

    We have two of those Pro's still functioning and I think we have one of the Atom's still in use but I'm not sure where it is, I may have to dig up inventory records.

    That being said we have MacBook Pro's that are four to five times the age of these oldest Surface in use still being used as well as Lenovo T400's, some Dell's that are just about as old and a couple of other clunkers hanging on in lesser roles. You have to see a Surface as a disposable system.

    I have a 64GB Surface Pro 1 at home that's still works like a champ and with the I5 processor it still functions as a champion coffee shop cruiser. That being said I care about my equipment. My daughter has a Surface Pro 4 that having received it at Christmas time has already outlasted a lot of the 3's in hours of use we've had around here many times over.

    I'm to say that a Surface is a good unit for people who give a shit about their equipment, but not in a company environment where replacement is someone else's problem. It's like buying a used rental car - which I have done. You just sort of expect to have to replace the tires and brakes even if it only has 20,000 miles on it. Buy a new Surface for yourself they're pretty awesome and the software problems that plagued them on Windows 8 seem to have gone away with WIndows 10, just don't waste your money in a corporate environment. *

    *I have not tested the Surface laptops (attached keyboard types) or the all-in-one desktops

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  4. Just given one of these at work.. by xtal · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I have been looking at the Surface for awhile. It looked OK.

    Then I got one at work to replace my aging Dell Latitude. (Surface Pro 4)

    The keyboard is junk. It's flimsy and moves when you type on it; the trackpad, which is required if you're using it as a computer (which I have to) is very narrow in depth and is difficult to use when compounded by the fact everything flexes when you use it.

    Using this device on anything but a flat table or desk is right out.

    Also, it's covered in Microfiber. WTF. This stuff attracts lint, dust, and pet hair like nobody's business and I shudder to think how grimy it's going to be in a year or so.

    In short, Microsoft turned what looked like an OK tablet into a horrible computer.

    That I'm stuck with.

    Maybe for years.

    Sigh.

    --
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  5. Re:I gave Surface to all employees by Solandri · · Score: 2

    The proper way to test this type of thing is to give the new tool to half your employees. Then compare their productivity increase (if any) vs. the half who didn't get the tool. This eliminates other external factors, like profits being up becomes the economy is recovering.

    You also have to be wary of the Hawthorne effect - where worker productivity increases simply because they think you're doing something to help them, even if you secretly haven't really changed anything. So a better way to test is to give half your employees one product, half a different product, and see which product does better. e.g. At the same time half your employees get Surface Pros, the other half get new upgraded laptops.

  6. Re:I gave Surface to all employees by 93+Escort+Wagon · · Score: 2

    You also have to be wary of the Hawthorne effect

    You, on the other hand, have to be wary about assuming anything stated in an anonymous posting actually happened. :-)

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