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Military Tech Could Be Amazon's Secret To Cheap, Non-Refrigerated Food (cnbc.com)

According to CNBC, Amazon is exploring a technology first developed for the U.S. military to produce tasty prepared meals that do not need refrigeration, as it looks for new ways to muscle into the $700 billion U.S. grocery business. From the report: The world's biggest online retailer has discussed selling ready-to-eat dishes such as beef stew and a vegetable frittata as soon as next year, officials at the startup firm marketing the technology told Reuters. The dishes would be easy to stockpile and ship because they do not require refrigeration and could be offered quite cheaply compared with take-out from a restaurant. Delivering meals would build on the company's AmazonFresh service, which has been delivering groceries to customers' homes for a decade. It could also complement Amazon's planned $13.7 billion purchase of Whole Foods Market and Amazon's checkout-free convenience store, which is in the test stage.

The pioneering food-prep tech, known as microwave assisted thermal sterilization, or MATS, was developed by researchers at Washington State University, and is being brought to market by a venture-backed startup called 915 Labs, based in Denver. The method involves placing sealed packages of food in pressurized water and heating them with microwaves for several minutes, according to 915 Labs. Unlike traditional processing methods, where packages are in pressure cookers for up to an hour until both bacteria and nutrients are largely gone, the dishes retain their natural flavor and texture, the company said. They also can sit on a shelf for a year, which would make them suitable for Amazon's storage and delivery business model.

49 of 80 comments (clear)

  1. Oxymoron by nospam007 · · Score: 3, Insightful

    "Delivering meals would build on the company's AmazonFresh service.."

    With the difference that it would be AmazonNonFresh Service.

    1. Re:Oxymoron by DontBeAMoran · · Score: 1

      Actually it would be "AmazonItWasFreshWhenWePackedIt Service".

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    2. Re:Oxymoron by AHuxley · · Score: 1

      Fresh ways of making a profit.

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      Domestic spying is now "Benign Information Gathering"
  2. The same tech that produces MREs? by Strider- · · Score: 4, Funny

    Anyone who's had to deal with MREs knows that nothing good will come of this... (nor will anything come out of you, but that's a different problem).

    --
    ...si hoc legere nimium eruditionis habes...
    1. Re:The same tech that produces MREs? by K.+S.+Kyosuke · · Score: 3, Funny

      So...Meals Rejected by EBay?

      --
      Ezekiel 23:20
    2. Re:The same tech that produces MREs? by 50000BTU_barbecue · · Score: 1

      The Canadian ones, the IMPs, are OK I guess. I used to be able to buy them for 5$ at the surplus, they were expired but still fine. I used them in my bike camping tours. They were a lot of fun to lug around. They were all quite edible, some even tasty (franks and beans!), but I did poop like a rabbit for a few days. A constipated rabbit.

      --
      Mostly random stuff.
    3. Re:The same tech that produces MREs? by 93+Escort+Wagon · · Score: 2

      I've eaten MREs, and I've eaten K-rations. MREs are certainly better than K-rations, and they are probably nice when you're out in a dirty foxhole somewhere... but they're not exactly haute cuisine. Unless your point of comparison is a Walmart-branded TV dinner, it's hard to see how anyone would want to pay for this.

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    4. Re:The same tech that produces MREs? by 93+Escort+Wagon · · Score: 1

      Excuse me - I've eaten C-Rations, not K-Rations.

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      #DeleteChrome
    5. Re:The same tech that produces MREs? by rmdingler · · Score: 1

      Excuse me - I've eaten C-Rations, not K-Rations.

      If you see Kay, tell her that meals with any sort of nutritional value develop an acute deliciousness after about 48 hrs without eating.

      --
      Happiness in intelligent people is the rarest thing I know.

      Ernest Hemingway

    6. Re:The same tech that produces MREs? by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 1

      MREs are better than C-Rats, but I would prefer a Walmart TV dinner over either. I don't think people will pay Amazon to eat MREs. When I ate MREs, I was paid to eat them.

      Semper Fi

    7. Re:The same tech that produces MREs? by rtb61 · · Score: 1

      Just to be clear https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... and https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.... The difference in where they are consumed, on the battle line or in rear areas during rest. So the modern equivalent is https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... and for further interest https://www.youtube.com/watch?... (I chose that video specifically because there is a difference between men and women and I found her to be more entertaining than the typical prepper https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/..., so screw you google).

      --
      Chaos - everything, everywhere, everywhen
    8. Re:The same tech that produces MREs? by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 2

      I did poop like a rabbit for a few days. A constipated rabbit.

      Stress induced constipation is already a problem for soldiers, so it never made sense to me how they made it even worse by feeding us rations devoid of fiber. I tried to keep myself unclogged by buying fruit and veggies from the locals, but others just stole from the trees and fields. I doubt if that was good for "winning hearts and minds". How hard would it be to include some prunes?

    9. Re:The same tech that produces MREs? by Chris+Mattern · · Score: 1

      Excuse me - I've eaten C-Rations, not K-Rations.

      That makes more sense. Since K-rations were retired in 1948, you'd have to be pretty damned old to have eaten them. C rations were retired in 1958, you sure it wasn't MCIs (Meal Combat Individual) you ate? They were the successor to C-rations and the immediate predecessor to MREs and very similar to C-rations. They weren't completely retired until years after their replacement by MREs in 1981.

    10. Re:The same tech that produces MREs? by fnj · · Score: 1

      Since K-rations were retired in 1948, you'd have to be pretty damned old to have eaten them.

      I resemble that remark, since I would only have to be 17 years older than my present age of 70 to have been a possible K-ration eater.

    11. Re: The same tech that produces MREs? by Nidi62 · · Score: 1

      I always assumed there was a reason that MREs always came with a bottle of hot sauce. Covers up the taste.

      --
      The only thing necessary for evil to triumph is for it to be pitted against a slightly greater evil
    12. Re:The same tech that produces MREs? by mjwx · · Score: 1

      Anyone who's had to deal with MREs knows that nothing good will come of this... (nor will anything come out of you, but that's a different problem).

      Or the alternative, Amazon is now literally selling Spam.

      --
      Calling someone a "hater" only means you can not rationally rebut their argument.
    13. Re:The same tech that produces MREs? by DontBeAMoran · · Score: 2
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    14. Re:The same tech that produces MREs? by 93+Escort+Wagon · · Score: 1

      It's possible. I wasn't the one in the army - my dad was, and he was the one who referred to them as C-rations.

      During the 60s and 70s, he worked in a number of different support-type admin roles, first in the army proper and later in the full-time reserves. Those rations lasted next to forever; but they were still required to rotate their stocks every so often - and when the new stuff came in, the old stuff was supposed to be tossed (though it hadn't expired). My dad would bring home maybe a half-dozen individual meals, and we kids would fight over the couple that we actually liked. It was usually just one component that we wanted, such as the franks & beans main course of one, or another meal's cookie dessert (IIRC it was kind of like a Moon Pie, but in a can).

      He kept the cigarettes... back when they still included a cigarette ration.

      He never ate the meals, though. Looking back, it's possible they may have reminded him too much of Vietnam - not that he said that.

      --
      #DeleteChrome
    15. Re:The same tech that produces MREs? by RuffMasterD · · Score: 1

      Been there. Once I came back from training and passed a brick so heavy that it refused to flush. That was embarrassing. Especially for the guy who found it.

      --
      Human Rights, Article 12: Freedom from Interference with Privacy, Family, Home and Correspondence
    16. Re:The same tech that produces MREs? by RuffMasterD · · Score: 1

      Not necessarily. There's a guy on youtube who finds old military rations, unpacks them, and then eats them. It's surprising what's still out there unopened. He tried US C rations from the Vietnam war, and US and UK rations from the second world war. Even an American civil war hardtack cracker. There is something morbidly fascinating about watching a guy sniff old rations, dry heave, take a bite, claim it tastes OK, then the after-taste makes his throat burn, and then take another bite anyway just to be sure.

      --
      Human Rights, Article 12: Freedom from Interference with Privacy, Family, Home and Correspondence
    17. Re:The same tech that produces MREs? by cryptizard · · Score: 1

      Just because they use the same sterilization technique doesn't mean they will taste like military rations. I imagine there are a lot of other reasons (related to cost and general indifference to whether it tastes good) that the military rations are not great.

  3. I've eaten MRE's by Snotnose · · Score: 3, Funny

    Several times in fact, various flavors. They actually aren't bad. Until you're on day 4 with the same damned fettuccine alfredo, then you start thinking of that hot girlfriend who couldn't boil water without messing up.

    I cook. I enjoy cooking. I use spices to cut the salt and fat, and most people complement me on my cooking. I can't imagine any prepackaged meal being either A) better than I could make myself; or B) Healthier than I can make myself.

    I can see C) faster than I can make myself; and D) humping it in a desert and wanna eat

    / protip: To cook pasta faster boil water
    // then put the water into ice cube trays
    /// voila! Next time you need boiled water just take it out of the freezer

    1. Re:I've eaten MRE's by Kjella · · Score: 1

      Several times in fact, various flavors. They actually aren't bad. Until you're on day 4 with the same damned fettuccine alfredo, then you start thinking of that hot girlfriend who couldn't boil water without messing up.

      Not hot. Not going to be your girlfriend. Or boyfriend, if that's how you swing. But I have messed up boiling water for noodles, my blood alcohol level at the time may be related.

      I cook. I enjoy cooking. I use spices to cut the salt and fat, and most people complement me on my cooking.

      Me too, if they find me cooking they say "I think you could use some help with that".

      I can't imagine any prepackaged meal being either A) better than I could make myself; or B) Healthier than I can make myself. I can see C) faster than I can make myself; and D) humping it in a desert and wanna eat

      If you include my natural tendency to make stuff with lots of fats and sugar because they taste good, I'm going with e) all of the above. Seriously, it takes a chef to make a salad taste good. Junk food and lots of toppings? Even I can't screw up that badly.

      Ideally I'd have a robot chef to make me fresh meals. But second to that, I'm willing to indulge any attempt to make better preprocessed food.

      --
      Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
    2. Re:I've eaten MRE's by CanadianMacFan · · Score: 1

      Or was it your alcohol blood level?

    3. Re:I've eaten MRE's by tlhIngan · · Score: 1

      Several times in fact, various flavors. They actually aren't bad. Until you're on day 4 with the same damned fettuccine alfredo, then you start thinking of that hot girlfriend who couldn't boil water without messing up.

      I cook. I enjoy cooking. I use spices to cut the salt and fat, and most people complement me on my cooking. I can't imagine any prepackaged meal being either A) better than I could make myself; or B) Healthier than I can make myself.

      I can see C) faster than I can make myself; and D) humping it in a desert and wanna eat

      / protip: To cook pasta faster boil water // then put the water into ice cube trays /// voila! Next time you need boiled water just take it out of the freezer

      Packaging food requires processing and the processing basically means having to compensate for the process in the preparation/cooking of the food. It's generally why prepackaged food is high in sodium - because salt is a great preservative, something you need in order to last between the factory to the distribution center to the retailer warehouse to the retailer and to the store shelf.

      Food is perishable, and most of the stuff on the shelf, including the fresh stuff, has been around for weeks - produce is picked early and ripened on the truck so by the time it hits the shelf, it's ready. And produce typically has the shortest supply chain - the suppliers in general will ship directly to stores to save the shipping to the distribution center and retailer warehouses (saving up to a month). Everything else has been prepared to be preserved - either flash freezing, drying, canning or other preservation method. Some of them kill a lot of flavor, hence using a lot of salt to bring it back again.

      Cooking it fresh will always taste better since you don't need to do any steps that kill flavor and nutrition and thus have to overcompensate to bring it back. Even so some of the foods are pre-packaged, but in general those items don't lose much in the process (pasta, for example, is generally bland to begin with, so drying doesn't really destroy anything). Other foods, like flour, generally just keep.

      As for your tip - if you salted your pasta pot correctly, it won't freeze in a typical freezer. If it does, you're not salting it correctly (and this applies to both fresh and dried pasta) - you really want an ocean seawater level of salinity, if not dead sea. Plus, given how big pasta pots are, that's a LOT of ice cube trays.

  4. Irradiated food by PPH · · Score: 4, Interesting

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Food_irradiation

    Some years ago, a processor was test marketing prepackaged irradiated food. They went to great lengths to produce some high quality meals. A few of us went on a week long hike and I was responsible for buying the food for myself and my brother. Everyone else suffered with macaroni and cheese or some freeze-dried hiking meals. My bro and I had beef bourguignon and similar dishes. We were not well liked by the end of the hike.

    --
    Have gnu, will travel.
    1. Re:Irradiated food by bn-7bc · · Score: 1

      Envy ias not nice, you and your brother did better planing cudos, just one question tho it migh be redundant, where you and your bruther food budget for that trip compaable to the other hikers or where you #thos gys with the expspensive stuff, thad dit not want to eat the other crap" btw I support your way of doing it, a good meail at the end of the day sort of makes the day better. Btw the qoute above was not my opuinion but it`s kind of easy for people ho has had (crap) foo for a week to hatte on people on the same trip that had good food

  5. MREs have improved tremendously over time by jfdavis668 · · Score: 3, Informative

    MREs today are so much better than the original dehydrated pork patty and dehydrated fruit cocktail. Not to mention the original 4 hot dogs or meatballs in barbecue sauce. The biggest problem with the providing tasty food is having to smash it flat in those little packets. They have found ways of including far more enjoyable fare. If they packed it in a more appeasing manor they may be able to turn out decent meals.

    1. Re:MREs have improved tremendously over time by CrimsonAvenger · · Score: 1

      If they packed it in a more appeasing manor they may be able to turn out decent meals.

      If you're packing your food in any kind of house, you probably don't have to worry about MRE's.

      And why you want the house to appease you, I can't pretend to understand. Smart Home of some sort, obviously....

      --

      "I do not agree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it"
    2. Re:MREs have improved tremendously over time by Kjella · · Score: 1

      MREs are trying to achieve two goals, if you haven't eaten for a week you're ready to eat anything. But to keep a decent stack in an economic fashion you'll want to rotate out the oldest and have your soldiers eat it without a rebellion rather than write it off as a loss. I've eaten some of the freeze dried stuff they use here in Norway, it's okay for the occasional meal. But it doesn't come close to the fresh meal you could bring for the first couple days of any trip.

      --
      Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
    3. Re:MREs have improved tremendously over time by jfdavis668 · · Score: 1

      As someone who ate them for 26 years, I can tell you that the freeze dried fruit cocktail was not the best MRE. Glad they got rid of that crap.

    4. Re:MREs have improved tremendously over time by chihowa · · Score: 1

      I notice that you didn't say what your favorite was, but I guarantee that somebody else thinks it tasted like shit. For every nasty MRE, there was somebody who really liked it. (Except menu 4. WTF was up with that one?)

      --
      If you want a vision of the future, imagine a youtube comments section scrolling - forever.
  6. Wrong market. by will_die · · Score: 2

    This is not for the Whole Food food delivery market or for the already prepared ingredients delivered with a recipe, such as blue apron. They are doing other things for that and the people that are paying a huge premium for those services are not going to purchase something like this.
    This however works great to try to grab the business lunch menu and even the emergency preparation segment.
    Just getting a few percent of the business people to purchase a few meals to store at the desk and get them to eat one a week would be a worth while market.

  7. Wait, what happened to cans? by Mal-2 · · Score: 3, Interesting

    I thought this technology had existed for many decades already. It's called a "can". Easy-to-open and lightweight plastic packaging makes things more convenient and cheaper to ship, but it's not a fundamental game changer.

    --
    How is the Riemann zeta function like Trump rallies? Both have an endless number of trivial zeros.
    1. Re: Wait, what happened to cans? by reboot246 · · Score: 1

      Try some of the Margaret Holmes brand of canned food. It's some of the best flavored canned food I've ever had, even rivaling home-cooked.

    2. Re:Wait, what happened to cans? by antdude · · Score: 1

      It bugs me that companies stopped using cans like Ensure. :(

      --
      Ant(Dude) @ Quality Foraged Links (AQFL.net) & The Ant Farm (antfarm.ma.cx / antfarm.home.dhs.org).
    3. Re:Wait, what happened to cans? by CanadianMacFan · · Score: 1

      Tell that to soldiers going out an a couple of days patrol. Cans are not as light as you think they are.

      They also occupy a lot of extra space due to their shape. You can pack plastic bags right together with little space between them but there will always be lots of empty space between cans. When I'm bringing home shopping it's a lot easier bringing stuff that's packed in boxes because I'm able to fit more in my backpack and into bags. (And the packaging is lighter too. A tetra pack of soup is lighter than a can of soup, at least it feels that way.)

      Some of the other packaging can be closed again. Once you open a can, it's open. And for a lot of cans you need to have a tool to open it. It was a pain when my can opener broke. But sometimes that doesn't work either because you want the top on but just a hole in the top to pour from so that's another tool. People with arthritis find cans hard to open.

      I do like the recyclability of cans and with the alternatives were better at it. And cans are the best solution for some tasks so I wouldn't want them replaced for everything. But they aren't the best solution for everything.

    4. Re:Wait, what happened to cans? by Mal-2 · · Score: 1

      I wasn't trying to claim that the can was perfect and couldn't be improved. Clearly cans have evolved over time, current soda and beer cans being a perfect example of this. Of course they could stand to be lighter and pack better (but there's nothing stopping the manufacture of cuboid cans to solve the packing problem). I was just saying that this "secret" tech is really just an evolution of something we already had, not the revolution the summary makes it out to be.

      --
      How is the Riemann zeta function like Trump rallies? Both have an endless number of trivial zeros.
  8. Wait, what? by srmalloy · · Score: 1

    where packages are in pressure cookers for up to an hour until both bacteria and nutrients are largely gone

    Until the nutrients are largely gone? Doesn't this sort of defeat the purpose of having food?

    On the other hand, this explains so much about shelf-stable food...

    1. Re:Wait, what? by ChrisMaple · · Score: 2

      The implied meaning is micronutrients, i.e. vitamins and enzymes and maybe the more digestible forms of minerals. Macronutrients - proteins, fats, and carbohydrates - may be degraded by use of a pressure cooker, but won't lose much of their caloric value. In some cases, the cooking makes the foods more digestible by breaking down fibers.

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    2. Re:Wait, what? by Carewolf · · Score: 1

      where packages are in pressure cookers for up to an hour until both bacteria and nutrients are largely gone

      Until the nutrients are largely gone? Doesn't this sort of defeat the purpose of having food?

      On the other hand, this explains so much about shelf-stable food...

      It was a hypobole. What they meant to say, until the taste is largely gone. Or until the food is British cousine.

  9. Re:Cost? by GrumpySteen · · Score: 1

    I really wish the Dilberito made a comeback. 100% of all the daily nutrients you need in a single meal.

    The product failed to catch on in the market, leading Adams to "several years and several million dollars later" to sell off his intellectual property and exit the business. Adams himself noted "[t]he mineral fortification was hard to disguise, and because of the veggie and legume content, three bites of the Dilberito made you fart so hard your intestines formed a tail". The New York Times noted the burrito "could have been designed only by a food technologist or by someone who eats lunch without much thought to taste."

  10. A new variation on the retort pouch? by MtViewGuy · · Score: 1

    I wonder is Amazon trying a new variant of the retort pouch developed in the 1970's that became immensely popular in Japan by the late 1980's?

  11. wake me when i can just say by thygate · · Score: 1

    Earl Gray. Hot.

  12. Re:Patents vs starving people by mrclevesque · · Score: 2

    "Anyone attempting to use 915 MHz microwave to sterilize food while retaining the food's texture and taste will have to pay royalties to the following patents"

    Those patents aren't for using 915mhz.

    "Hundreds of 2450 and 915 MHz systems between 10 to 200 kW heating capacities are used in the food industry for precooking bacons (e.g., used in Subways restaurants), tempering deep frozen meats when making meat patties, and precooking many other foods products [2, 3, 4, 5]. Commercial systems performing microwave pasteurization and/or sterilization of foods are currently available in Europe (e.g. TOP’s Foods); however, the use of microwaves in USA to produce shelf stable low acid (pH>4.6) foods requires FDA acceptance."

    https://labs.wsu.edu/microwave...

    https://www.fda.gov/Food/FoodS...

  13. Soylent Green by midifarm · · Score: 1

    It's people.

  14. Re:Not surprising. You could have shared. by PPH · · Score: 1

    "Wanna try some of my irradiated food?"

    Other hikers run away, screaming.

    These were the people that used to ask me (as an EE) how to tell if there was nuclear power running through the lines in front of their house.

    --
    Have gnu, will travel.
  15. So They are Selling Retort Pouches... by careysub · · Score: 3, Informative

    The bottom line here is that Amazon is introducing a retort pouch food product line - a technology that has been on the market for 40 years. It has been extremely popular around the world, and is found in U.S. products (I buy boxed retort pouch products at Costco all the time) though for some reason the U.S. public has preferred canned foods.

    TFA calls this "the cutting-edge food technology" which is overselling it a bit. MATS is one of several advanced retorting systems for preparing the pouches, and has been in use in various forms for decades, and is similar in performance to other technologies like PATS (pressure assisted thermal sterilization) - a form of pressure cooking. In 2006 a patent was issued for a particular refinement of MATS, using a specific frequency (915 MHZ), which is being aggressively promoted by the start-up patent licensee 915Labs, but it is not clear this is really a big advance in a well established industry.

    --
    Starships were meant to fly, Hands up and touch the sky - Nicky Minaj
    1. Re:So They are Selling Retort Pouches... by MtViewGuy · · Score: 1

      It may sound like a retort pouch, but I think the food processing technology to put the food in the bag might be new.