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Some Retailers Criticize Amazon's Recall of Eclipse Glasses (kgw.com)

An anonymous reader quotes Portland TV station KGW: Amazon issued a widespread recall for solar eclipse glasses early Saturday morning, one week before the August 21 eclipse. That move stunned some sellers who say their glasses are verified safe.... "We recommend that you DO NOT use this product to view the sun or the eclipse," Amazon wrote... "Out of an abundance of caution, we have proactively reached out to customers and provided refunds for eclipse glasses that may not comply with industry standards." At least a dozen KGW viewers said they received recall notices from Amazon Saturday... KGW viewer Heather Andersen said she bought two separate sets of solar glasses and learned both were not verified. "I give up," she tweeted...

Manish Panjwani's Los Angeles-based astronomy product business, AgenaAstro, has sold three times its average monthly revenue in the past month. Ninety-five percent is related to the solar eclipse... Panjwani's eclipse glasses come from two NASA-approved sellers: Thousand Oaks Optical in Arizona and Baader Planetarium in Germany. He said he provided documentation to Amazon proving the products' authenticity weeks ago, with no response from Amazon. On Saturday morning, he woke up to 100 emails from customers after Amazon issued a recall for his products. "People have some of the best glasses in the world in their hands right now and they don't believe in that product," he said. "They're out there looking for something inferior." Panjwani said Amazon is temporarily retaining some of his profits because of the recall. He also has almost 5,000 glasses at an Amazon warehouse, which customers can no longer purchase. "That's just sitting there. I cannot sell it and I cannot get it back in time for the eclipse," he said.

20 of 150 comments (clear)

  1. Both ... by Arkh89 · · Score: 5, Informative

    Both Thousand Oaks Optical and Baader are really well-known in the astro community. They both have been making solar filters for a long time and I doubt they would jeopardize customers safety and their brand recognition like this.

    1. Re:Both ... by geekmux · · Score: 2, Informative

      Both Thousand Oaks Optical and Baader are really well-known in the astro community. They both have been making solar filters for a long time and I doubt they would jeopardize customers safety and their brand recognition like this.

      It's sad when organizations whose good reputation likely exceeds that of Amazons' existence have been impacted in this way.

      The only thing that's worse is damn near every vendor is now too small to do a damn thing about it. Even if they could afford a sizeable class action suit against Amazon, it would not be settled for years while thousands of unjustified 1-star reviews pile up.

      Just another reason we should despise monopolies of any kind.

    2. Re:Both ... by careysub · · Score: 5, Informative

      I buy stuff from AgenaAstro all the time, they are the best in the business. And know the Baader solar film very well. It is in fact the industry standard - it is widely used for telescope solar filters. The products in question are all ISO and NASA certified.

      Amazon is simply screwing AgenaAstro not out of "an abundance of caution" but out of impulse and ignorance, and greed (they are keeping some of Panjwani's money for good measure). If they are just exercising their own caution, give him all of his money. Bezos can afford to take the astronomically small risk.

      In fact they should buy his inventory from him. Let Amazon take the hit out its own "abundance of caution".

      --
      Starships were meant to fly, Hands up and touch the sky - Nicky Minaj
    3. Re:Both ... by themightythor · · Score: 2

      Bezos can afford to take the astronomically small risk.

      I see what you did there.

    4. Re:Both ... by Ecuador · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Thousand Oaks and Baader glasses just got caught up some sort of frantic Amazon response when the retailer realized some people are selling unsafe crap and they don't have the expertise (and don't care enough to source it it seems) to tell the good from the bad.
      I tried out of curiosity to order a pack of glasses from an ebay seller in the UK (I'll be going to the US in a couple of days). I got glasses with all the marks (CE, ISO...), through which you could see a CFL bulb and its surrounding glow! If they let that much visible light through, who knows about IR/UV - well I could test, but not worth my time... (Note to readers, through real ND5.0 or denser glasses you would only be able to see something as bright as the filament of an incandescent bulb, nothing else - oh, and the sun of course).
      The experiment done, I got a refund and ordered from a proper retailer :) They will complement my Baader Astrosolar filters for the telescope and Thousand Oaks for the binoculars.
      It is interesting that Baader had to modify their classic Astrosolar filter that we use in telescopes, in order to get the strict ISO rating, as they allowed a little bit of UV to pass which meant you could take photos at near UV (e.g. Calcium II K-line).

      --
      Violence is the last refuge of the incompetent. Polar Scope Align for iOS
    5. Re:Both ... by Rei_is_a_dumbass · · Score: 5, Informative

      The problem is that there are a ton of counterfeiters on amazon are claiming to be Thousand Oaks Optical and Baader but selling substandard goods.

    6. Re:Both ... by Fly+Swatter · · Score: 5, Insightful

      You can thank Amazon's horrible co-mingling of inventory. Even Amazon won't even know which ones are real or fake once they hit the warehouse shelf, so they have to take them all down. I'm sorry some imbecile modded you down but I think you are right, and this is probably what happened.

    7. Re:Both ... by omnichad · · Score: 2

      Amazon has a warehouse problem where counterfeit products from other sellers are co-mingled with the real thing.

    8. Re:Both ... by Solandri · · Score: 3, Informative

      Baader has several different films. Their silver/gold film is certified safe for visual observation under the ISO standard; their photo film is not. It lets through a little more UV than the ISO limit. It's designed for use on cameras, where the glass in the lens will block enough of the UV to make it ISO-compliant. But if you use it to view the sun directly, you're going to be slightly over the ISO limit.

      While I'm sure AgenaAstro is fine, I wouldn't put it past some fly-by-night shop making glasses out of the photo filter film (because he was unable to purchase the visual filter film). So Amazon is justified in their caution. Where they're screwing up is in bringing up this issue so close to the eclipse, and not reviewing the documentation AgenaAstro sent them in a timely manner.

    9. Re: Both ... by Khyber · · Score: 2

      You wanna see daytime astronomical stuff, at awesome size and resolution?

      Get a cheap-ass Newtonian telescope that you don't give a fuck about, and use that to project a daytime event, or just the plain old sun, onto a non-textured white wall.

      Now you can take pictures of it without destroying the shit out of your camera.

      --
      Still waiting on Serviscope_minor to wake up to fucking reality and realize that Jessica Price isn't going to fuck him.
    10. Re:Both ... by Khyber · · Score: 2

      By the time your eyes hurt, the damage is already likely done.

      --
      Still waiting on Serviscope_minor to wake up to fucking reality and realize that Jessica Price isn't going to fuck him.
    11. Re:Both ... by wbr1 · · Score: 2
      I sell on amazon as an FBA seller.

      This is overstated. Azazon does not co-mingle inventory unless the seller reuqests it. The default is to keep each seller's inventory of the same SKU separate. In fact, the bar-code labeling you have to supply for FBA inventory has a unique FNSKU that identifies item -and- seller.

      That said, you can choose to not label and co-mingle. As a seller I think this is stupid - as other sellers that co-mingle could be selling sub-par (expired, counterfeit, damaged) product, that could be shipped out with my business name (and my feedback) at stake. All the legitimate sellers I know from FB groups of other sellers do not co-mingle. That is the bastion of the cheapo seller to hide their shit products.

      Unfortunately though a buyer cannot tell if the seller they are buying from is co-mingled or not. Your best bet is to buy only from sellers with 94% or higher feedback and read the low star feedback carefully.

      In the case of eclipse glasses, I went to buy some for myself last week. Amazon was flooded with listings, some legit, some obviously fake, skyrocketing prices and back-ordered inventory. I am a fairly smart person and could not distinguish shit listings that were unsafe from real ones. So I ordered som bushnell binocs with the appropriete lenses. I can see where Amazon would like not to get sued by people blinded when they used paper glases with brown acetate instead of real shade 14 filtering.

      --
      Silence is a state of mime.
  2. Re:Eclipse Glasses by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Informative

    That's actually terrible advice - during the eclipse, the sun does not appear to be as bright, so it will be more "comfortable" to look directly at it, but there's still more than enough UV light to permanently damage your eyes.

  3. Re:Eclipse Glasses by archer,+the · · Score: 4, Informative

    I hope people don't listen to your advice. They may permanently damage their eyes. As a result, they may sue you. From https://eclipse.gsfc.nasa.gov/... :

    The only time that the Sun can be viewed safely with the naked eye is during a total eclipse, when the Moon completely covers the disk of the Sun. It is never safe to look at a partial or annular eclipse, or the partial phases of a total solar eclipse, without the proper equipment and techniques. Even when 99% of the Sun's surface (the photosphere) is obscured during the partial phases of a solar eclipse, the remaining crescent Sun is still intense enough to cause a retinal burn, even though illumination levels are comparable to twilight [Chou, 1981, 1996; Marsh, 1982]. Failure to use proper observing methods may result in permanent eye damage or severe visual loss. This can have important adverse effects on career choices and earning potential, since it has been shown that most individuals who sustain eclipse-related eye injuries are children and young adults [Penner and McNair, 1966; Chou and Krailo, 1981].

  4. Re:How about this by careysub · · Score: 4, Insightful

    No one who has actually seen a total eclipse of the sun is disappointed. No one.

    --
    Starships were meant to fly, Hands up and touch the sky - Nicky Minaj
  5. The Logical Result of American Tort Law by Artagel · · Score: 3, Insightful

    The problem Amazon faces is true of all safety equipment. If some fly-by-night or foreign vendor puts sunglasses on the store as being fit for solar eclipse viewing Amazon is on hook for injuries. The same will be true of any other safety equipment that fails. As the only deep pocket left in sight, Amazon will bear the hole burden. It is the result of making sure the injured person is compensated if someone is more responsible than the injured person. Our system encourages knee-jerk decisions just like this to prevent injuries.

    It's the American way. Once you move away from caveat emptor, it is the only logical stopping place.

  6. Re:People that have real jobs... by tlhIngan · · Score: 2

    A good job means you can take vacation whenever you want to, because you work for an employer who understands work/life balance, and respects employee requests for time off

    A great many employers do not have the luxury of offering their employees unrestricted vacation time. If UPS or the post office told people there would be no deliveries on monday, because the entire workforce wanted the day off to watch the eclipse, there would be open riots in the streets.

    Or, what is your opinion of the power company having un-staffed nuclear plants because everyone wants to watch the eclipse?

    You live in a fantasy world jackass, get off your horse and take a look around you

    Sorry, but most good employers know when people take time off and plan around it. You may be surprised, but not too many people are going to see the eclipse.

    You put in your request for time off in advance, maybe a few months to a few weeks, and they'll likely approve it because it can be slotted into the work. The more time you give, the easier they will at approving your request. Do it last minute and results can be iffy, but even so most employers will provide for short term leave, if possible.

    For the eclipse, most people probably don't care. Or since it happens on a work day, they might take 10 minutes from their day to go outside and take a look, then head back in later. Given smokers take smoke breaks, that's all it's really going to amount to - a bunch of people taking a smoke break. Most people will just see a partial eclipse. Those who are going to travel to see the full eclipse have put in their vacation requests weeks ahead of schedule, because they needed to book hotels and other things.

    And while people are expecting chaos near the total eclipse path, it's not as bad as you think - maybe a million people total over the entire band, out of a population of over 300 million is not going to seriously affect anything.

    Ans UPS and USPS and others not doing deliveries? I'm sure they have more than a few people taking the day off. They either have replacement workers ready to cover (easy to do when you plan ahead), or plan for reduced throughput that day, because honestly, most packages will not be missed if they were delivered on a Tuesday instead of Monday. And if they were, then perhaps you should've paid for (guaranteed) express delivery instead of economy.

    The world doesn't stop turning when people take vacations. Good employers plan for it - they know Thanksgiving is going to be an odd week, so they plan for reduced workforce around it - either delaying deadlines, hiring coverage workers, or just planning for reduced productivity. Same goes around the winter break. And summer too - employers plan for a good chunk of people to simply take time off during the summer. Hell, in China, Chinese New Year means the entire country is off a couple of weeks. If Foxconn and others can plan on their entire workforce going on holidays for two whole weeks, planning on a handful of employees missing every day isn't difficult.

    Life happens. People get sick. Often the person you need that information from either goes on holiday, gets ill, or is otherwise indisposed when you need them most. And people live.

    Employers that don't allow their staff to take vacations because it impacts their deliverables are not running an efficient ship. They're running a potential disaster - if missing one employee impacts the business to the extent that the business can falter, then it is a business that will falter. Basically, your boss is squeezing everyone, probably to make a few extra bucks. Well, they can make more money by getting rid of stuff like UPSes and RAID in the server room too - it's the same thing whether it's hardware, software, or wetware. You plan for any of those to go down, at the worst possible moment, too.

  7. Re: Haha by fisted · · Score: 2

    And I'm going to watch a shaky vertical smartphone video recording of the eclipse being played back on youtube.

    Better safe than sorry.

  8. Re:More to the point.. by grnbrg · · Score: 2

    Actually, I have seen reports of customers who ordered #14 welding filters (as well as eclipse gear not even intended to be used in any way for viewing) getting the same refund notice.

    Vendors selling fake glasses are a problem, but Amazon is forcing this on a huge number of items -- virtually anything eclipse related -- and will be burning far more legitimate sellers than illegitimate ones.

  9. Re:More to the point.. by grnbrg · · Score: 2, Informative

    In order to safely view the sun with a welding filter, you need a shade #12 or higher. The certification for those is more stringent than the ISO certification for visual eclipse filters.