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Some Retailers Criticize Amazon's Recall of Eclipse Glasses (kgw.com)

Posted by EditorDavid on from the blinded-by-the-light dept.

An anonymous reader quotes Portland TV station KGW: Amazon issued a widespread recall for solar eclipse glasses early Saturday morning, one week before the August 21 eclipse. That move stunned some sellers who say their glasses are verified safe.... "We recommend that you DO NOT use this product to view the sun or the eclipse," Amazon wrote... "Out of an abundance of caution, we have proactively reached out to customers and provided refunds for eclipse glasses that may not comply with industry standards." At least a dozen KGW viewers said they received recall notices from Amazon Saturday... KGW viewer Heather Andersen said she bought two separate sets of solar glasses and learned both were not verified. "I give up," she tweeted...

Manish Panjwani's Los Angeles-based astronomy product business, AgenaAstro, has sold three times its average monthly revenue in the past month. Ninety-five percent is related to the solar eclipse... Panjwani's eclipse glasses come from two NASA-approved sellers: Thousand Oaks Optical in Arizona and Baader Planetarium in Germany. He said he provided documentation to Amazon proving the products' authenticity weeks ago, with no response from Amazon. On Saturday morning, he woke up to 100 emails from customers after Amazon issued a recall for his products. "People have some of the best glasses in the world in their hands right now and they don't believe in that product," he said. "They're out there looking for something inferior." Panjwani said Amazon is temporarily retaining some of his profits because of the recall. He also has almost 5,000 glasses at an Amazon warehouse, which customers can no longer purchase. "That's just sitting there. I cannot sell it and I cannot get it back in time for the eclipse," he said.

150 comments

  1. Haha by Anonymous Coward · · Score: -1

    That is what you get for selling bad merchandise. He needs to be sued.

    1. Re: Haha by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      I realize it's asking a lot but RTFA.

    2. Re:Haha by beelsebob · · Score: 1

      Yup - if you were selling good merchandise, then you should have warranted it as good, rather than putting up big disclaimers saying not to watch the eclipse with it.

    3. Re:Haha by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'm going to view the eclipse by filming it. I don't care if glasses are "certified solar eclipse safe", I am not risking my eyesight over it.

    4. Re: Haha by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And I'm going to watch those videos people put online for the same reason.

    5. Re: Haha by fisted · · Score: 2

      And I'm going to watch a shaky vertical smartphone video recording of the eclipse being played back on youtube.

      Better safe than sorry.

      --
      CLI paste? paste.pr0.tips!
    6. Re: Haha by jellomizer · · Score: 1

      Yes, they didn't sell the certified products. Hoping to make a fast buck off the eclipse. Their products could in fact be safe, however because they are not certified, we don't know. And the seller doesn't really know either, but they got them and tried to sell them anyways. Too bad, so sad. But that is what you get trying to sell non-certified safety products. A warehouse of unsellable products. Next time they will learn to be more careful when trying to sell such things.

      --
      If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
  2. Massive Retailers Have Market Power Over Suppliers by naubol · · Score: 1

    News At 11

    --
    Reality is a slackware box running on a 386 tucked away in god's sock drawer.
  3. Pakistani-certified eclipse glasses by Anonymous Coward · · Score: -1

    If they don't work, it is clearly the will of Allah that you be a sightless infidel.

  4. Both ... by Arkh89 · · Score: 5, Informative

    Both Thousand Oaks Optical and Baader are really well-known in the astro community. They both have been making solar filters for a long time and I doubt they would jeopardize customers safety and their brand recognition like this.

    1. Re:Both ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: -1

      When you have 40 years on this earth please come back with your opinions (though slashfsdked will no longer exist, thanks to its overlords, so you'll have to voice your opinion on alternative contemporary social outlets if the trumpettes will allow it).

      Captcha: legends - something the trumpettes are not.

    2. Re:Both ... by geekmux · · Score: 2, Informative

      Both Thousand Oaks Optical and Baader are really well-known in the astro community. They both have been making solar filters for a long time and I doubt they would jeopardize customers safety and their brand recognition like this.

      It's sad when organizations whose good reputation likely exceeds that of Amazons' existence have been impacted in this way.

      The only thing that's worse is damn near every vendor is now too small to do a damn thing about it. Even if they could afford a sizeable class action suit against Amazon, it would not be settled for years while thousands of unjustified 1-star reviews pile up.

      Just another reason we should despise monopolies of any kind.

    3. Re:Both ... by careysub · · Score: 5, Informative

      I buy stuff from AgenaAstro all the time, they are the best in the business. And know the Baader solar film very well. It is in fact the industry standard - it is widely used for telescope solar filters. The products in question are all ISO and NASA certified.

      Amazon is simply screwing AgenaAstro not out of "an abundance of caution" but out of impulse and ignorance, and greed (they are keeping some of Panjwani's money for good measure). If they are just exercising their own caution, give him all of his money. Bezos can afford to take the astronomically small risk.

      In fact they should buy his inventory from him. Let Amazon take the hit out its own "abundance of caution".

      --
      Starships were meant to fly, Hands up and touch the sky - Nicky Minaj
    4. Re:Both ... by reboot246 · · Score: 1

      Plus, I trust Agena Astro. I've bought lots of stuff from them without any problems, and I value their opinion on the gear they sell.

    5. Re:Both ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: -1

      Off you fuck, cocknugget.

    6. Re:Both ... by themightythor · · Score: 2

      Bezos can afford to take the astronomically small risk.

      I see what you did there.

    7. Re:Both ... by Ecuador · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Thousand Oaks and Baader glasses just got caught up some sort of frantic Amazon response when the retailer realized some people are selling unsafe crap and they don't have the expertise (and don't care enough to source it it seems) to tell the good from the bad.
      I tried out of curiosity to order a pack of glasses from an ebay seller in the UK (I'll be going to the US in a couple of days). I got glasses with all the marks (CE, ISO...), through which you could see a CFL bulb and its surrounding glow! If they let that much visible light through, who knows about IR/UV - well I could test, but not worth my time... (Note to readers, through real ND5.0 or denser glasses you would only be able to see something as bright as the filament of an incandescent bulb, nothing else - oh, and the sun of course).
      The experiment done, I got a refund and ordered from a proper retailer :) They will complement my Baader Astrosolar filters for the telescope and Thousand Oaks for the binoculars.
      It is interesting that Baader had to modify their classic Astrosolar filter that we use in telescopes, in order to get the strict ISO rating, as they allowed a little bit of UV to pass which meant you could take photos at near UV (e.g. Calcium II K-line).

      --
      Violence is the last refuge of the incompetent. Polar Scope Align for iOS
    8. Re:Both ... by Rei_is_a_dumbass · · Score: 5, Informative

      The problem is that there are a ton of counterfeiters on amazon are claiming to be Thousand Oaks Optical and Baader but selling substandard goods.

    9. Re:Both ... by Fly+Swatter · · Score: 5, Insightful

      You can thank Amazon's horrible co-mingling of inventory. Even Amazon won't even know which ones are real or fake once they hit the warehouse shelf, so they have to take them all down. I'm sorry some imbecile modded you down but I think you are right, and this is probably what happened.

    10. Re:Both ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Agreed. This co-mingling is horrible. But sometimes I use it to my advantage, buying from a company obviously selling a counterfeit product at a cheap (1/2 of Amazon) price. Odds of me receiving the real thing are equal whether I purchase from Amazon or reseller since both products are on the same shelf, so why pay more. If it is fake, then I return it.

    11. Re:Both ... by omnichad · · Score: 2

      Amazon has a warehouse problem where counterfeit products from other sellers are co-mingled with the real thing.

    12. Re:Both ... by argStyopa · · Score: 1

      I don't think that's the point, actually.

      The point (from the seller) is that he is selling (he says) completely authentic, legit glasses and provided proof of such to Amazon.

      As a consumer, there is almost no way to prove it. Anyone can print whatever the hell they want on the glasses, all the certifications, link to authentic websites, etc - nobody would catch that in time. They can take the EXACT text from legit glasses and print them there.

      We bought some months ago (not from this guy). They said on Amazon that they were certified, which is probably the reason for the sudden decertification by Amazon, trying to shore up their legal defenses when a bunch of counterfeits hurt peoples eyes, and while a bunch of morons (with otherwise good glasses) use them poorly and hurt their eyes.

      Looking through a number of sites, pretty much all you find on the official ones is "buy them from these (10, 15, 20) official sites"...useless, because they're all sold out.

      What I can find is that if, on a bright day, you can still see NOTHING through the glasses except the sun or extremely bright lights, they're probably ok. That's what we're going with, and common sense: we're not going to stare unblinking at the sun (through glasses) for minutes on end. Look, see how far it's gotten, then look away for a while. If your eyes hurt, stop.

      --
      -Styopa
    13. Re: Both ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I used a welding mask to view the last eclipse then venus transiting the sun.

      You can sort of tell if they're dark enough if they block everything except the sun.

      You aren't guaranteed safe, but it's a good sign. Especially if you've got the relevant standards and certificates on there as well.

      This time I'll be using a pair by lunt so I should be completely safe.

    14. Re: Both ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Do not confuse "ISO compliant" i. e. shade 14 Welders glass - a product which many of the recall notices reference - with "ISO certified" , meaning they were sent away to be certified and actually contain the ISO official logo.

    15. Re:Both ... by Solandri · · Score: 3, Informative

      Baader has several different films. Their silver/gold film is certified safe for visual observation under the ISO standard; their photo film is not. It lets through a little more UV than the ISO limit. It's designed for use on cameras, where the glass in the lens will block enough of the UV to make it ISO-compliant. But if you use it to view the sun directly, you're going to be slightly over the ISO limit.

      While I'm sure AgenaAstro is fine, I wouldn't put it past some fly-by-night shop making glasses out of the photo filter film (because he was unable to purchase the visual filter film). So Amazon is justified in their caution. Where they're screwing up is in bringing up this issue so close to the eclipse, and not reviewing the documentation AgenaAstro sent them in a timely manner.

    16. Re:Both ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I have both a Thousand Oaks and Baader solar filters for my telescope. I know I bought a few sets of glasses from different vendors, all of which Amazon emailed me about. One of the sets is clearly not dark enough, I can put them on an look at a light and see the glow of the bulb. Neither of the telescope filters let me see anything in the same scenario.

      I'm sure there were many fake or not up to spec glasses, since many came from 3rd party retailers where Amazon is unable to verify things so the lawyers probably said it is cheaper to recall and deal with the vendor fall out rather than the class action lawsuit from users with vision loss. Amazon has been sued for what 3rd parties sold before.

    17. Re:Both ... by queequeg1 · · Score: 1

      I was wondering if this exact problem was the source of the trouble. The co-mingling BS has to stop. It's why I don't buy memory cards, charger cables, and certain other often counterfeited items through Amazon anymore.

    18. Re:Both ... by im_thatoneguy · · Score: 1

      Important warning too, many cheaper ND filters do not IR/UV so don't just buy ND5.0 without full spectrum filtering.

    19. Re:Both ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      A lot of the stuff isn't exactly counterfeit per se, it's just second factory seconds, like a production run that was fucked up somehow, but since china is corrupt as shit instead of destroying it or recycling it somebody takes it out the back and peddles it on ebay or amazon. it's like the stuff you would find in a fashion brands "factory outlet" where one of the pockets is the wrong length, or the fly is two inches off center, etc. but the chinese resellers don't tell you it's a second which is the problem.

    20. Re:Both ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The problem is with some items, like theses glasses, you can't tell they are fake until after your eyes are irreparably damaged.

    21. Re:Both ... by Solandri · · Score: 1

      I ordered from Rainbow Symphony on Amazon precisely for this reason. I knew they sold legit eclipse glasses, and I noticed that their Amazon listing said "sold by Rainbow Symphony." It was not Prime and did not say "fulfilled by Amazon.". So I placed the order on Amazon, and a couple weeks later I got a package shipped direct from Rainbow Symphony with the eclipse glasses, completely bypassing Amazon's inventory.

      Of course I also ordered them a year ago...

    22. Re: Both ... by Khyber · · Score: 2

      You wanna see daytime astronomical stuff, at awesome size and resolution?

      Get a cheap-ass Newtonian telescope that you don't give a fuck about, and use that to project a daytime event, or just the plain old sun, onto a non-textured white wall.

      Now you can take pictures of it without destroying the shit out of your camera.

      --
      Still waiting on Serviscope_minor to wake up to fucking reality and realize that Jessica Price isn't going to fuck him.
    23. Re:Both ... by Khyber · · Score: 2

      By the time your eyes hurt, the damage is already likely done.

      --
      Still waiting on Serviscope_minor to wake up to fucking reality and realize that Jessica Price isn't going to fuck him.
    24. Re:Both ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I ordered glasses from amazon, and received counterfeits with actually well copied and printed to look like the original, complete with the full text. There was only one typo: "Conforms two ISO-..." instead of "Conforms to ISO-...".

      The best part is the bag had the barcode sticker slapped on top of the barcode for a completely different glasses product.

      I sent them back on Monday and Amazon refunded me on Friday (Stupid that amazon even made me send them back (though Amazon Locker makes that easier), but what am I to complain that I got my money.)

    25. Re:Both ... by BessBeysanmak · · Score: 0

      Machine a Parpaing Machine a Parpaing Beyazli Group fabrique plusieurs types de machine a parpaing. La machine a parpaing est la machine la plus demandé par les particuliers et les machines automatique et les semi-automatique sont commandé par les entreprises pour des très grandes productions....

    26. Re:Both ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Hey dumbass, it's not about whether those two vendors manufacture safe solar filters, it's about the vendor providing proof that the items he is selling ACTUALLY came from those vendors and aren't just counterfeits. RTFA

    27. Re:Both ... by wbr1 · · Score: 2
      I sell on amazon as an FBA seller.

      This is overstated. Azazon does not co-mingle inventory unless the seller reuqests it. The default is to keep each seller's inventory of the same SKU separate. In fact, the bar-code labeling you have to supply for FBA inventory has a unique FNSKU that identifies item -and- seller.

      That said, you can choose to not label and co-mingle. As a seller I think this is stupid - as other sellers that co-mingle could be selling sub-par (expired, counterfeit, damaged) product, that could be shipped out with my business name (and my feedback) at stake. All the legitimate sellers I know from FB groups of other sellers do not co-mingle. That is the bastion of the cheapo seller to hide their shit products.

      Unfortunately though a buyer cannot tell if the seller they are buying from is co-mingled or not. Your best bet is to buy only from sellers with 94% or higher feedback and read the low star feedback carefully.

      In the case of eclipse glasses, I went to buy some for myself last week. Amazon was flooded with listings, some legit, some obviously fake, skyrocketing prices and back-ordered inventory. I am a fairly smart person and could not distinguish shit listings that were unsafe from real ones. So I ordered som bushnell binocs with the appropriete lenses. I can see where Amazon would like not to get sued by people blinded when they used paper glases with brown acetate instead of real shade 14 filtering.

      --
      Silence is a state of mime.
    28. Re:Both ... by ichimunki · · Score: 1

      Vendors who sell through Amazon need to accept this type of thing is a risk. Amazon is not now, and never was, an impartial marketplace. It was a big deal when Amazon allowed in used books, cds, and movies, after all, because that might undercut their existing business model. And unlike other large retailers who stock house brands alongside name brands, Amazon itself is a name brand for an increasing array of goods and services. Yes, there are markets that Amazon is not directly involved in, like eclipse glasses, but they've never been a pure middleman. Just the opposite, they've been opening up over the years.

      And to be argumentative, I can't think of a single area where Amazon is a monopoly, except for "free" two-day shipping. The closest they come is electronic books and readers. Their streaming music and video services have a number of very strong competitors. Amazon's devices are good, but hardly the only options available (in fact, their tablets are very much a "you get what you pay for" experience).

      --
      I do not have a signature
    29. Re:Both ... by argStyopa · · Score: 1

      You know what?
      As kids, we all try looking at the sun once or more.
      And our eyes didn't melt, nor did we go blind.

      Occasionally in life, we are dazzled by a blindingly bright light. Life goes on.

      I've got glasses. They seem pretty good. I'm going to use them. I genuinely don't know that they are certified. It's literally impossible to tell...and really, I don't care.

      I'm not saying it's not worth being careful. I'm saying that I'm not going to cringe in terror at the idea of looking through only-90%-good-enough lenses for a moment or two at a time. (shrug)

      I laugh at the people getting in a massive twist over "OMG, are my solar shades actually perfect?" ...while destroying their hearing playing music 24/7 too loud, or who drive 10-20mph over the speed limit regularly.

      --
      -Styopa
    30. Re:Both ... by chihowa · · Score: 1

      it's like the stuff you would find in a fashion brands "factory outlet" where one of the pockets is the wrong length, or the fly is two inches off center, etc. but the chinese resellers don't tell you it's a second which is the problem.

      The bigger problem is that this is boing done with safety gear to begin with. That's totally different from factory second fashion accessories.

      Being upfront about selling QC-failed safety gear is still pretty shitty, especially if it's still being sold for its intended purpose: "Watch the eclipse with these factory rejected solar glasses!"

      --
      If you want a vision of the future, imagine a youtube comments section scrolling - forever.
    31. Re:Both ... by LeftCoastThinker · · Score: 1

      Except that vision damage, short of catching a high watt density laser full on, takes a few hours to onset, but once you are blinded, that is it you are never going to see again. It is kind of like nuclear radiation. Once you know you are being injured, you are already screwed...

      Eclipses are not that big a deal, just go outside, see it dark in the middle of the day and then check out the pictures posted online of the eclipse. Eyesight is our most critical of the 5 senses, with hearing being next most critical. Loss of eyesight is a debilitating problem for humans.

      --
      If you disagree, please post your argument. (-1, Overrated) isn't your personal censorship tool for views you don't like
  5. Warning... by __aaclcg7560 · · Score: 0

    These glasses are not safe for viewing the eclipse. Unless you want to qualify for the Darwin Award by wearing them and finding some way to get yourself killed while viewing the eclipse.

    1. Re: Warning... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I clicked that link while taking a poo.

      +1 if u poo every time.

  6. People that have real jobs... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: -1

    can't get the day off, so this doesn't affect hard workers so I have trouble caring. My employer here in Seattle said we get no time off that entire week, so I'm not sympathetic to lazy people that don't want to work.

    1. Re:People that have real jobs... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: -1

      This. Just because there's a partial eclipse, our customers don't give a damn. They expect us to still work. We already fired two lazy people that demanded time off. As someone that has worked for twelve years without a single day off, I have no respect for their kind.

    2. Re:People that have real jobs... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Wow, if you're that scared about losing your job you must have close to nothing of value to offer employers.

    3. Re:People that have real jobs... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      it just means you do nothing of real value at your job and can be easily be replaced by someone in a 3rd world shit hole, be happy they dont say yes, and off shore the entire plant

    4. Re:People that have real jobs... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      can't get the day off, so this doesn't affect hard workers so I have trouble caring. My employer here in Seattle said we get no time off that entire week, so I'm not sympathetic to lazy people that don't want to work.

      There's a difference between a "real" job, and a good job.

      A good job means you can take vacation whenever you want to, because you work for an employer who understands work/life balance, and respects employee requests for time off.

      I work hard to earn my time off, so I'm not sympathetic to that fucking pathetic "lazy" excuse of yours. The fact is your employer is a greedy bitch who's looking to maximize revenue at the expense of every employee. Enjoy that real job of yours. I'll be on vacation having trouble caring.

    5. Re:People that have real jobs... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      ...As someone that has worked for twelve years without a single day off, I have no respect for their kind.

      I have no respect or sympathy for robotic idiots who think that working twelve years without a single day off should impress the rest of the sane people on the planet.

      Our kind is not lazy for wanting a day off. It's called being human. You should wake up and try it sometime. Might stop you from looking back on your life in utter disgust, since there is far more to life than working every fucking day.

    6. Re:People that have real jobs... by geoskd · · Score: 0

      A good job means you can take vacation whenever you want to, because you work for an employer who understands work/life balance, and respects employee requests for time off

      A great many employers do not have the luxury of offering their employees unrestricted vacation time. If UPS or the post office told people there would be no deliveries on monday, because the entire workforce wanted the day off to watch the eclipse, there would be open riots in the streets.

      Or, what is your opinion of the power company having un-staffed nuclear plants because everyone wants to watch the eclipse?

      You live in a fantasy world jackass, get off your horse and take a look around you

      Prick

      --
      I wish I had a good sig, but all the good ones are copyrighted
    7. Re:People that have real jobs... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This. Real jobs can't allow people time off. That's why I've never had more than a single contiguous day off since I started working after graduating college in 1986. Going 31 years without a real vacation sucks, but it means I know I'm valuable.

    8. Re:People that have real jobs... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No, it's the other way around. My company would die if I don't work. Only useless people are allowed time off.

    9. Re:People that have real jobs... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Going 31 years without a real vacation sucks, but it means I know I'm valuable.

      It doesn't mean you're valuable... it means you are a slave to your job and have little value of your own time. It mean's you're a fucking idiot. I can 110% guarantee you that you're employer doesn't value you as much as you think they do.

    10. Re: People that have real jobs... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Yup. Been sitting by a river all day playing guitar after quitting work this summer. One of my best days in a long time.

    11. Re:People that have real jobs... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The Google CEO was on vacation when he flew back into the Valley to fire that redpilled shitlord. The Google CEO takes vacations, are you saying you are more valuable than the CEO of Google? Impressive.

    12. Re:People that have real jobs... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Clearly you're one of the useless ones then. If the company is that dependent upon a few non-owners, then they need to do something to fix the problem. If they think taking a day off, or really morning, to view the eclipse is that dangerous to their ability to stay in business, then what happens if you get hit by a car or a bus?

      Taking the day off would be doing them a favor.

    13. Re:People that have real jobs... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Not really, even the CEO can take weekends off if he's got things running properly. If you're that busy, it's because you aren't in the habit of saying no to unreasonable requests. You shouldn't have to do more than explain that by having weekends off that you'll be more productive the next week than if you were in on the weekend.

      If that isn't sufficient, I'd recommend finding a job elsewhere that's competently managed. Sure, people can punch the clock for 60+ hours a week on a regular basis, but even if they aren't overtly goofing off during that time, it doesn't mean that all that time is being used productively. There's only so much time that a person can work without the quality being reduced to nothing. Chances are those last 10 or so hours aren't productive and dragging productivity for the rest of the day down the shitter.

    14. Re:People that have real jobs... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Precisely. A CEO on vacation might have to break it off early if something important needs to be done, but if you've got no time for regular weekends or at least a week or two off a year, that's a sign that something isn't working out right.

      People in that situation should start looking for other work and talk with the boss about getting days off to rest up so as to be more productive the next week. People who take no time off are shit workers that don't get anywhere near as much done as those that have reasonable numbers of days off to have a life.

    15. Re:People that have real jobs... by tlhIngan · · Score: 2

      A good job means you can take vacation whenever you want to, because you work for an employer who understands work/life balance, and respects employee requests for time off

      A great many employers do not have the luxury of offering their employees unrestricted vacation time. If UPS or the post office told people there would be no deliveries on monday, because the entire workforce wanted the day off to watch the eclipse, there would be open riots in the streets.

      Or, what is your opinion of the power company having un-staffed nuclear plants because everyone wants to watch the eclipse?

      You live in a fantasy world jackass, get off your horse and take a look around you

      Sorry, but most good employers know when people take time off and plan around it. You may be surprised, but not too many people are going to see the eclipse.

      You put in your request for time off in advance, maybe a few months to a few weeks, and they'll likely approve it because it can be slotted into the work. The more time you give, the easier they will at approving your request. Do it last minute and results can be iffy, but even so most employers will provide for short term leave, if possible.

      For the eclipse, most people probably don't care. Or since it happens on a work day, they might take 10 minutes from their day to go outside and take a look, then head back in later. Given smokers take smoke breaks, that's all it's really going to amount to - a bunch of people taking a smoke break. Most people will just see a partial eclipse. Those who are going to travel to see the full eclipse have put in their vacation requests weeks ahead of schedule, because they needed to book hotels and other things.

      And while people are expecting chaos near the total eclipse path, it's not as bad as you think - maybe a million people total over the entire band, out of a population of over 300 million is not going to seriously affect anything.

      Ans UPS and USPS and others not doing deliveries? I'm sure they have more than a few people taking the day off. They either have replacement workers ready to cover (easy to do when you plan ahead), or plan for reduced throughput that day, because honestly, most packages will not be missed if they were delivered on a Tuesday instead of Monday. And if they were, then perhaps you should've paid for (guaranteed) express delivery instead of economy.

      The world doesn't stop turning when people take vacations. Good employers plan for it - they know Thanksgiving is going to be an odd week, so they plan for reduced workforce around it - either delaying deadlines, hiring coverage workers, or just planning for reduced productivity. Same goes around the winter break. And summer too - employers plan for a good chunk of people to simply take time off during the summer. Hell, in China, Chinese New Year means the entire country is off a couple of weeks. If Foxconn and others can plan on their entire workforce going on holidays for two whole weeks, planning on a handful of employees missing every day isn't difficult.

      Life happens. People get sick. Often the person you need that information from either goes on holiday, gets ill, or is otherwise indisposed when you need them most. And people live.

      Employers that don't allow their staff to take vacations because it impacts their deliverables are not running an efficient ship. They're running a potential disaster - if missing one employee impacts the business to the extent that the business can falter, then it is a business that will falter. Basically, your boss is squeezing everyone, probably to make a few extra bucks. Well, they can make more money by getting rid of stuff like UPSes and RAID in the server room too - it's the same thing whether it's hardware, software, or wetware. You plan for any of those to go down, at the worst possible moment, too.

    16. Re:People that have real jobs... by david_thornley · · Score: 1

      That's why I got my time off request in in February. We're not going to close the company down, and I wanted to get it in early and beat the competition. There are places that can shut down.

      If you can't get a vacation, find a real job. If your company will go broke if you take a week off, it's doomed anyway, because you're probably going to be out sick that long some time or another.

      --
      "When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
  7. profiteering by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    What is a real kick in the pants is that the "unapproved" glasses I bought a few weeks ago were $15 for three pairs. Now the cheapest comparable glasses on Amazon are on the order of $35 to $50.

    1. Re:profiteering by __aaclcg7560 · · Score: 1

      The ten-pack Eclipse Glasses that sold for $25 in July is now $85 on Amazon.

    2. Re:profiteering by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 1

      "Profiteering" is just another word for market economics. This is just supply and demand. The supply is limited, the demand is surging, so of course the price should go up to the market-clearing level. The alternative is rationing and shortages, which is idiotic.

    3. Re: profiteering by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The supply is not that limited. They make new ones every day to be prepared for this. And there will be millions left unsold like every other eclipse.

    4. Re: profiteering by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      In this case I agree. Plus people can use pinhole protectors yup view the event.

      Personally having witnessed the annular eclipse in 2012, I can say that even at the current rates it's well worth the money. I'm getting a 5 pack for $40 which is still worth it.

      I'd wager the bigger problem for most people is not being able to go outside for it.

    5. Re:profiteering by PopeRatzo · · Score: 1

      The ten-pack Eclipse Glasses [amzn.to] that sold for $25 in July is now $85 on Amazon.

      Surge pricing.

      Anyway, if you drink enough vodka and grapefruit juice, you can view the eclipse with the naked eye. I read it in a men's health magazine. Wait, maybe the article said you can view the eclipse naked.

      --
      You are welcome on my lawn.
    6. Re:profiteering by torkus · · Score: 1

      Wow, flimsy paper and solar film going for $10+ each now...not a week ago it was a buck a piece for the cheapy (and probably non-certified) glasses.

      I got 3 pairs of nice plastic ones for maybe 10 bucks...guaranteed certified except I probably have a recall notice too. FML.

      B&H included a 5-pack for free when I bought a lens recently...I almost refused them (returns are complicated by 'free' items) but now it sounds like I could sell them for $20 each!

      --
      You can get rich if you own a politician, but you have to be rich to buy one in the first place.
    7. Re:profiteering by jellomizer · · Score: 1

      The interesting thing about cheap knockoffs, is the fact that they are cheap.

      --
      If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
    8. Re: profiteering by jellomizer · · Score: 1

      Are they going to build factories to speed up production to meet demand, for a product that no one will want to use in over a week?

      Supply is quite limited compared to the current demand, then after the eclipse there will be a surplus. Bubble economics at work.

      --
      If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
    9. Re: profiteering by david_thornley · · Score: 1

      An annular eclipse is cool, or a partial, but a total eclipse is fantastic.

      Most people can walk off the job for five minutes without disrupting things. There are exceptions.

      --
      "When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
  8. lessons to learn by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    the lessons here are for small business owners, do not bet on amazon (or any other on-line retailers) to carry your business. Unless you are selling direct to the customer you have given up control to a middleman.

    I feel sorry for the owner of the store, but he should have realized that adding another entity to his supply chain is reducing his control over his process. Hopefully he was diversified in his supplychain and also sold through other entities (ebay, shopify and a personal online store for example)

    1. Re:lessons to learn by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      but when you sell direct to the customer, meaning your product is not on amazon's shelves, the customers now get a 100% guarantee of their $ back no questions asked. so damned if you do, damned if you don't. amazon is fucking businesses for profits.

    2. Re:lessons to learn by jellomizer · · Score: 1

      It is bigger then on-line, it is putting all your product into any one retailer in general is risky. The product that you sell that accounts for 100% of your profit is 1% of the profit of the retailer. Their interest in selling your product is limited to if they can make money from yours, or if your spot can make more money then something else.

      If your product is a liability then chances are you going to loose that retailer.

      --
      If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
    3. Re:lessons to learn by david_thornley · · Score: 1

      If you diversify, you can still wind up selling 90% of your stuff through Amazon, because a lot of people buy stuff through Amazon. If Amazon screws you over, you're probably screwed no matter what you did.

      --
      "When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
  9. How about this by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    We stop acting like children thinking a solar eclipse is a once in a life time event.

    There's another one crossing the US in 2024 (south to north) by the way. And being in the path of totality is nothing special. Believe me I've been there, it's nothing to write home about.

    The only reason to pay attention to this is if you're a scientist doing research. If you're not, you will be very disappointed.

    1. Re:How about this by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Huh, it is exactly the opposite of what most people who have been at a total eclipse say. Perhaps you were in just an annular eclipse or something like that?

    2. Re:How about this by careysub · · Score: 4, Insightful

      No one who has actually seen a total eclipse of the sun is disappointed. No one.

      --
      Starships were meant to fly, Hands up and touch the sky - Nicky Minaj
    3. Re: How about this by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      GP would have been more impressed if he had been outside instead of in his moms basement master bating under the covers.

    4. Re: How about this by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Completely agree. It was a religious experience. And I don't believe in any gods.

      People who say otherwise probably haven't ever seen one in person. These aren't once in a lifetime events, but they're rare enough and significant enough to be unforgettable.

    5. Re: How about this by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      In my entire life since becoming sentient, there has been ONE total eclipse viewable within the continental US (1979), and it was about as far away from Florida as you could get in a car without leaving the US (near Seattle, I think). And I was in kindergarten, so my ability to travel was just *slightly* constrained by my parents.

      I expect to be alive in 2024, but it's non-inconceivable I won't die from cancer or a heart attack first. If I'm lucky, I *might* still be alive in 2045... but I'll be *old*.

      So, fuck YEAH, I'm going up to South Carolina to see it, because it actually MIGHT be a once-in-a-lifetime experience. And it'll hopefully leave me with at least one more opportunity to see one if next Monday ends up being cloudy.

    6. Re: How about this by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      you're retarded

      there have been many

    7. Re: How about this by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No, YOU'RE the one who's retarded. The 1979 eclipse was the most recent eclipse where the path of totality passed through the continental United States. The others were only partial or annular in the continental US.

      Google is your friend: eclipse totality path

      "Partial" isn't good enough. A 99.9% eclipse dims the sun about as much as the sun going behind a cloud. You need 100% totality to really appreciate it.

      Next Monday, there are going to be lots of really disappointed people in Kansas City & St. Louis who'll end up missing totality by a few miles because they stopped reading an article before getting to the part about only SOME of their city being in the totality path & thinking that wherever they were is good enough.

    8. Re:How about this by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DG... (about the 1999 eclipse in Britain)

  10. Eclipse Glasses by sexconker · · Score: -1

    You don't need glasses to view the eclipse. The sun will be blocked. It's an eclipse.

    Even if you're watching before and after, or you're nowhere near the path of totality, so what? Have you never seen the sun before? Have you never watched a sunset? If it's high in the sky and bright, just squint.

    1. Re:Eclipse Glasses by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Informative

      That's actually terrible advice - during the eclipse, the sun does not appear to be as bright, so it will be more "comfortable" to look directly at it, but there's still more than enough UV light to permanently damage your eyes.

    2. Re:Eclipse Glasses by archer,+the · · Score: 4, Informative

      I hope people don't listen to your advice. They may permanently damage their eyes. As a result, they may sue you. From https://eclipse.gsfc.nasa.gov/... :

      The only time that the Sun can be viewed safely with the naked eye is during a total eclipse, when the Moon completely covers the disk of the Sun. It is never safe to look at a partial or annular eclipse, or the partial phases of a total solar eclipse, without the proper equipment and techniques. Even when 99% of the Sun's surface (the photosphere) is obscured during the partial phases of a solar eclipse, the remaining crescent Sun is still intense enough to cause a retinal burn, even though illumination levels are comparable to twilight [Chou, 1981, 1996; Marsh, 1982]. Failure to use proper observing methods may result in permanent eye damage or severe visual loss. This can have important adverse effects on career choices and earning potential, since it has been shown that most individuals who sustain eclipse-related eye injuries are children and young adults [Penner and McNair, 1966; Chou and Krailo, 1981].

    3. Re:Eclipse Glasses by careysub · · Score: 1

      No he is absolutely right - for the actual total eclipse. If you use solar filters for that you will not see anything.

      --
      Starships were meant to fly, Hands up and touch the sky - Nicky Minaj
    4. Re:Eclipse Glasses by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      For the totality yes you don't need glasses for that time, but he was saying you don't need any eye protection before and after or outside of the path of totality. That is completely wrong.

    5. Re:Eclipse Glasses by Swave+An+deBwoner · · Score: 1

      I take exception to the statement "The only time that the Sun can be viewed safely with the naked eye is during a total eclipse, when the Moon completely covers the disk of the Sun."

      When the Moon completely covers the disk of the Sun, you can't view the Sun at all. So, safe, OK, but misleading.

    6. Re:Eclipse Glasses by Cochonou · · Score: 1

      You'll see the corona. It's the best thing to look at.

    7. Re:Eclipse Glasses by sexconker · · Score: 1

      If you're one of those pussies who's afraid of UV light, you're probably not going to be going outside to look at it anyway.
      Have you never enjoyed a day at the beach? An afternoon picnic? Are you one of those douches who wears dark sunglasses all the time?

    8. Re:Eclipse Glasses by sexconker · · Score: 1

      You don't need eye protection any more than you do on a normal day. In fact you need less. Much less.

      Take the amount of time you spend staring at the sun on a normal day and compare it to the amount of time you plan to spend staring at the eclipse factored by the average amount of eclipse coverage over that time. A few minutes of staring at an eclipse is nothing compared to about a century of existing on this planet. Unless you're a cave dweller. And like I said, if you're worried about it, use your built in sunglasses by squinting. If you're a pussy, use regular ol' sunglasses that block UV.

      I;m not in the path of totality, and I plan to take a break during whatever the peak time is, step outside and look for a bit, say "neat", and then go back to work.
      I'll let you know how my retinas fare. If you're lucky, I'll be blind and unable to shitpost on Slashdot.

    9. Re:Eclipse Glasses by torkus · · Score: 1

      You don't have these little things called EYES focusing the UV light.

      Oh, and you might not realize but excessive UV does damage your skin. Luckily for you, skin heals quickly and easily except in extreme cases.

      Your retina? Does. Not. Heal. Any damage is permanent and, while your eye will adapt and 'fill in' blank spaces of damaged retina you will forever have a demonstrable blind spot. Go google laser eye injuries for some funtastic examples of how well that goes over.

      --
      You can get rich if you own a politician, but you have to be rich to buy one in the first place.
    10. Re:Eclipse Glasses by torkus · · Score: 1

      You won't be blinded by glimpsing at the sun briefly...even if you do it a bunch of times over the years. Everyone knows that.

      Staring at it for a few minutes straight? Very different story.

      Kind of like the 1000's of hours of sun we all get but when we spend 6 hours straight at the beach we turn into a lobster. Skin heals. Retinas do not.

      --
      You can get rich if you own a politician, but you have to be rich to buy one in the first place.
    11. Re:Eclipse Glasses by clodney · · Score: 1

      You don't need eye protection any more than you do on a normal day. In fact you need less. Much less.

      Take the amount of time you spend staring at the sun on a normal day and compare it to the amount of time you plan to spend staring at the eclipse factored by the average amount of eclipse coverage over that time. A few minutes of staring at an eclipse is nothing compared to about a century of existing on this planet. Unless you're a cave dweller. And like I said, if you're worried about it, use your built in sunglasses by squinting. If you're a pussy, use regular ol' sunglasses that block UV.

      I know exactly what you mean! People keep telling me that I shouldn't put my hand in the gas flame of my stove, because I will get burned. But I say that the flame in my gas furnace is way bigger, and heats my whole freaking house! And yet apparently it is safe to use 5 months out of the year, even when I am asleep. But put a dinky little flame on the stove, and all of a sudden people are like "OH NOES, DON'T TOUCH THE FLAMES!". Pussies.

    12. Re:Eclipse Glasses by david_thornley · · Score: 1

      In 1979, I put down my welding glass to see totality and just stared at it. The corona was so beautiful. Then I missed Bailey's beads because they stabbed my eyes with sunlight and I automatically flinched and closed my eyes. Looking at anything other than a total eclipse during totality is a really bad idea, but most of us will react appropriately.

      --
      "When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
    13. Re:Eclipse Glasses by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You can't sue someone because you did something obviously stupid like STARE DIRECTLY AT THE FUCKING SUN.

  11. I don't blame them. It's a product ripe for scams. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    A massively hyped, one-time event that people know they need special equipment for but most have no idea what they actually need or how to verify what they have is legitimate. It's a scenario that's tailor made for scammers. I think someone at Amazon realized this, the potential liability issues and wisely decided to pull the plug even if there was a one time PR hit. Almost everything we buy that's not a consumable comes from Amazon but I wouldn't touch any of the glasses on Amazon, even if they say they're from a reputable manufacturer.

  12. Why Wait so Long to check on this? by zuckie13 · · Score: 1

    I'm upset about this mostly because of how close Amazon cut it. This could have been done a month ago (I've got a friend who bough some in early July and got one of these e-mails). Like some said above, that makes this look like profiteering now that prices for "Safe" ones are bumped up. Finding retailers that have them in stock, and can deliver before the eclipse is a problem at this point.

    1. Re:Why Wait so Long to check on this? by jdoebean · · Score: 1

      That and their will still be a lot of partial or permanently blinded children and adults from this anyway you Look at it.

  13. Walmart.com worked perfectly for this by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I use amazon far too much. I rarely ever have problems with them, so I use them for almost everything. But eclipse glasses didn't work out. Got mine on walmart.com with no issues. In stock, no wait, far cheaper. Advertised as ISO certified. Delivered ISO certified. Made in the USA. They are no longer listed as available, but I am sure that when they can ship some more, they will show up again. Their supply chain apparently handles dynamic demand a bit better than amazon.

  14. no surprise by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I have two friends that sell on amazon (other products, not solar glasses) and both have had bad experiences where amazon (with no warning) decides to just mess them over in random ways and denies their appeals. If you sell on Amazon, Amazon holds all the power and there is really nothing you can do when they decide to mess you over on a whim. You are completely at their mercy.

  15. I already sent one set back by whoever57 · · Score: 1

    I bought a pack of 4 eclipse glasses. The listing on Amazon claimed they were ISO certified. However, before they arrived, I had some doubt about the glasses because the manufacturer was not listed as a supplier of safe glasses. When I went to look at the listing again, it had been taken down (not just zero available, but the product was not found).

    When they arrived, there was no ISO marking on the glasses. In fact, there was a marking "Do not use for Sun glasses".

    So, they went back, then about a day later, I received the email from Amazon warning me about these glasses.

    --
    The real "Libtards" are the Libertarians!
    1. Re:I already sent one set back by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      When they arrived, there was no ISO marking on the glasses. In fact, there was a marking "Do not use for Sun glasses"

      I had the same experience buying eclipse glasses marketed as ISO certified on Amazon. Sent them back for full refund.

    2. Re:I already sent one set back by LordSkippy · · Score: 1

      In fact, there was a marking "Do not use for Sun glasses".

      Not saying the glasses were legitimate or not, but that warning would actually be good for real eclipse glasses. With actual eclipse glasses, you can look at an unfrosted incandescent light bulb, and all you'll see is a faint glowing filament surrounded by black. Using those as sun glasses would be a good way to crash your car.

      --
      My karma is in a nose dive
  16. Massive Giveaway. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Because both customers AND suppliers gave it to them.

  17. Glasses? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Glasses? Bah!

    We kids applied smoke from a candle to glass microscope slides and watched the eclipse through that back in 1968 or so.

    1. Re:Glasses? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      ^Dictated to a voice-to-text device.

  18. Why Wait so Long to weld? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    How about welding glasses?

    1. Re: Why Wait so Long to weld? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Those work, just make sure to get the right ones. They should be dark enough that you see nothing unless you're looking at the sun.

      NASA has recommendations, but some masks aren't dark enough.

    2. Re: Why Wait so Long to weld? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      https://eclipse2017.nasa.gov/safety

      Kind of buried, but a shade 14 sounds right, just harder to find.

      https://www.magidglove.com/WELDING-FILTER-PLATE-SHADE-14-45WPRL.aspx

  19. Co-mingling Inventory; No Simple Way to Verify by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    As others have already point out, despite the PR hit, Amazon is smart to do a recall now and play it safe.

    With co-mingling inventory, one inferior product can spoil the whole bunch. That's likely some of the issue. The other aspect is there seems to be no simple way for Amazon nor customers to verify glasses actually meet safe view requirements.

    While most counterfeit / mislabeled products present little to no danger to customers, faulty eclipse glasses very well can. I can already foresee news stories of eclipse related eye injuries along with talk of litigation, etc. If Amazon was only a venue, more akin to eBay, they'd likely not have taken the blanket recall action they did.

  20. Bad news by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    All this, PLUS the eclipse heralds the start of WW3!

    Jesus CHRIST, what next!!??!!

    LOL@vword: "obscures"

  21. welding glasses? by jdoebean · · Score: 1

    Should be I think -8 or somewhere close (not common), I use a -4 with dichroic coating as well as an additional layer of an active welding filter. Even a scratch can be problematic. I would never trust a 1/1000" plastic filter for anything not replaceable even though the active filter may only be 1/10^100th thick on either..

    1. Re:welding glasses? by torkus · · Score: 1

      Shade #14. Not especially common, but not difficult to find (normally at least).

      AFAIK, the plastic film isn't the filter so the thickness doesn't matter. It's the deposition layer on the plastic that does the filtering and that's a very well established technology. Not to mention, the vast majority of legitimate solar film comes from two manufacturers who have been in the business (and certified) for quite a long time. There's plenty of people who study the sun and want to look at it on non-eclipse days after all!

      --
      You can get rich if you own a politician, but you have to be rich to buy one in the first place.
  22. Another amateur astronomer here by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Let me repeat what others have already posted: Agena Astro is a great place to buy astronomy equipment. Thousand Oaks Optical solar filters have been some of the best for decades. Baader Optical solar products have been some of the best since they have been sold, (I'm not sure how long, but about 20 years in the US and maybe longer in Europe).
    To me this is evidence that Amazon is incompetent.
    I wouldn't be surprised is Amazon refuses to return the products back the the sellers.
    If Amazon was interested in reality, they would come clean that the owner's real name is Bozo.

  23. Re: Massive Retailers Have Market Power Over Suppl by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    We are witnessing the birth of corporate fascism: the age where singlencorporations weild the kind of economic and political power that governments can only dream of.

    When a government can regulate and directly control price and action on behalf of entire industries we call it "national socialism", aka fascism.

    Amazon, Alibaba, Airbnb, Uber and these new "market platform" corporations now have more power over markets than even the Nazi party did.

  24. The Logical Result of American Tort Law by Artagel · · Score: 3, Insightful

    The problem Amazon faces is true of all safety equipment. If some fly-by-night or foreign vendor puts sunglasses on the store as being fit for solar eclipse viewing Amazon is on hook for injuries. The same will be true of any other safety equipment that fails. As the only deep pocket left in sight, Amazon will bear the hole burden. It is the result of making sure the injured person is compensated if someone is more responsible than the injured person. Our system encourages knee-jerk decisions just like this to prevent injuries.

    It's the American way. Once you move away from caveat emptor, it is the only logical stopping place.

    1. Re:The Logical Result of American Tort Law by Cinnamon+Beige · · Score: 1

      There's no possible way for you to confirm yourself before buying, when you're buying online. The problem here is that Amazon should have exercised more caution earlier--it should be beyond obviously simple here to refuse to list safety equipment without getting its claims verified & have in the contracts penalties for any seller who might let their standards...relax once they've gotten their listing OK. (Given the nature of Amazon, I'd suggest that there should be a financial penalty, and the sum that Amazon gets must be put in escrow before the listing goes live.)

    2. Re:The Logical Result of American Tort Law by Shadow+of+Eternity · · Score: 1

      The problem isn't because of tort law, it's because of lack of meaningful regulation on places like amazon that allow counterfeiters to sell things and mix up inventory so much that even legitimate sellers have the counterfeiters' knockoffs sold from their storefront.

      --
      A bullet may have your name on it but splash damage is addressed "To whom it may concern."
    3. Re:The Logical Result of American Tort Law by torkus · · Score: 1

      Which is why Amazon is turning into a cesspool in their quest to sell everything to everyone. All the 3rd party sellers that afforded them that opportunity without having to sink all their own money...now have exactly the same quality as randos selling nonsense on fleabay.

      --
      You can get rich if you own a politician, but you have to be rich to buy one in the first place.
    4. Re:The Logical Result of American Tort Law by torkus · · Score: 1

      There's no possible way for you to confirm yourself before buying, when you're buying online

      Actually, I don't believe there's any way to actually confirm AFTER RECEIVING in this case either. Virtually no one has even rudimentary testing equipment to verify UV filtering on glasses. You can make an approximation for the visible light using a bright bulb but that's only half the equation.

      --
      You can get rich if you own a politician, but you have to be rich to buy one in the first place.
    5. Re:The Logical Result of American Tort Law by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      The issue here is NOT tort law, but contract law: specifically, see Hawkins v. McGee 84 N.H. 114, 146 A. 641 (N.H. 1929). If Amazon sells something with the claim that it is safe for eclipse viewing, but it is not, then Amazon is in breach of its contract with the purchaser, and is liable for any damages caused by its failure to live up to its side of the contract.

      The issue with Amazon is analogous to me hiring a plumber to install a sink, with terms in the contract that the sink would not leak, and discovering the day after installation that the water line leaking and suing the plumber for breach of contract to obtain compensation for the water damage.

      The reason Amazon is on the hook is not because of deep pockets, but because the end user's contract to buy the eclipse glasses is with Amazon, not with AgenaAstro or the manufacturer. That's nothing special about American contract law, but is a general principle in most nations that the person who signs the contract is the one who is in the hook if the contract is not fulfilled.

    6. Re:The Logical Result of American Tort Law by Cinnamon+Beige · · Score: 1

      Really? I'd expect testing the translucency of a lens to actually be a relatively simple exercise in spectroscopy, and the only thing you'd really need to do is find the right type of spectrograph. First check your light source to make sure it produces UV light, then do a second reading after sliding the glasses into place as a filter--and I'd actually be rather surprised if people haven't recycled paper glasses as a filter/lens source in science, since they're light, inexpensive, and sometimes distinctly easier to find.

  25. More to the point.. by thesupraman · · Score: 1

    I wonder when they are issuing a general recall on most welding goggles/masks?

    After all, you can get more damage, more quickly, if those are not up to standards.

    Well? Amazon?

    No, didnt think so..
    Oh well, I am sure a pack of lawyers will have a whole lot of rather profitable fun from this.

    1. Re:More to the point.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Welding goggles don't require anywhere near the same shade level as lenses for viewing the sun.

    2. Re:More to the point.. by butchersong · · Score: 1

      Ah, arc and tig both are brighter than viewing the sun I believe.

    3. Re:More to the point.. by grnbrg · · Score: 2

      Actually, I have seen reports of customers who ordered #14 welding filters (as well as eclipse gear not even intended to be used in any way for viewing) getting the same refund notice.

      Vendors selling fake glasses are a problem, but Amazon is forcing this on a huge number of items -- virtually anything eclipse related -- and will be burning far more legitimate sellers than illegitimate ones.

    4. Re:More to the point.. by grnbrg · · Score: 2, Informative

      In order to safely view the sun with a welding filter, you need a shade #12 or higher. The certification for those is more stringent than the ISO certification for visual eclipse filters.

    5. Re:More to the point.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Shade 14 or higher is required for viewing the sun. Welding only requires shade 8 or higher.

    6. Re:More to the point.. by jellomizer · · Score: 1

      They are not certified for viewing the eclipse. Not being certified doesn't mean they won't work, but not tested to prove that it does.
      When buying safety equipment, you need to make sure it is design to protect you from what you need it to protect you from. Welding masks, can come in a verity of different levels. From slightly darker then sun glasses, to nearly opaque. As well googles and masks are mostly designed for people who are looking down, if you are looking up, will it fully cover your eyes.

      Sure 99.9% will probably be just as good if not better. But they are not certified for the job, so trying to buy such products to do an activity it isn't certified for is dangerous. And these products are trying to be advertised for this activity.

      --
      If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
    7. Re:More to the point.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      They don't emit the same levels of UV radiation though. That's what damages eyes, not brightness.

  26. Seattle: Ugly place to live? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    "My employer here in Seattle..."

    Seattle Misery

  27. Meade Instruments by LesserWeevil · · Score: 1

    According to Meade, my EclipseView glasses meet all relevant standards. Amazon needs to calm down. Who elected them official Eclipse Safety Gods?

    1. Re:Meade Instruments by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Their lawyers and US Tort Laws. That's who.

  28. sounds like the right thing to do by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Tbh

  29. "merit-less" based economy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Merit has gone out the door.

    organizations with 'power' get to choose what is successful or not, based on facts or falsehoods.

  30. Re:Massive Retailers Have Market Power Over Suppli by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    People want their monopolies because everything else would be so horribly inconvenient. This is what you get in return.

  31. APO Guide to Eclipse Glasses Verification by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    American Paper Optics published a site with a guide on how to tell if you have fake APO glasses:

    https://www.eclipseglasses.com...

    I bought 40 pairs of supposedly APO glasses from a supposedly legitimate Amazon dealer and they are all fake. However, I did not get a recall notice from Amazon, and their site is telling me I cannot return them.

    So they're recalling legit product and refusing returns for fake product. Sounds like a typical company run by a bunch of incompetent MBAs.

  32. Re:Massive Retailers Have Market Power Over Suppli by ichimunki · · Score: 1

    No. This is what we get when a large marketplace is too easily filled with knock-off goods by less than reputable sellers. As a buyer, I think Amazon should be as aggressive as possible in preventing counterfeits, especially when the counterfeits are basically hijacking the legitimate listings making it much more difficult to sort out which prices are for what. Over at eBay, where each item/seller is its own listing, this isn't a problem. I can confidently buy fakes at a vastly discounted price knowing that is what I'm doing. My last experience trying to sell on Amazon, I was trying to resell some DVDs I'd actually bought through Amazon, yet was denied the listing because of the risk of counterfeits. The aggravating part of that wasn't so much that Amazon was being safe, but that my legit goods wouldn't stand a chance against the fakes on eBay.

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  33. Put them on by Script+Cat · · Score: 1

    Put them on.

    Look at the sun

    Do your eyes hurt, Is it too bright, or leaving spots?

    --Yes- return These are garbage

    --No- Pass these have been verified.

    You're not a garden slug. You can tell if something is too bright to look at. If not better move into a cave.

    1. Re:Put them on by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Put them on.

      Look at the sun

      Do your eyes hurt, Is it too bright, or leaving spots?

      --Yes- return These are garbage

      --No- Pass these have been verified.

      You're not a garden slug. You can tell if something is too bright to look at. If not better move into a cave.

      No. You can't tell. That's exactly why the fakes can be so dangerous. Some block visible light just fine but not the damaging levels of non-visible light, so you happily stare at the sun in perfect comfort while the UV burns away your retina. (Your retina doesn't have pain receptors. The discomfort from looking at overly bright objects is generated in the brain based on the input from the rods and cones.)

    2. Re:Put them on by krray · · Score: 1

      Yeah, I was thinking the same thing. It's my understanding / recollection (I remember the one in '79) that you can stare right the eclipse bare eyed no problem (except the damage you're doing); it won't hurt one bit at the moment.

      So ... I ordered #14 welding goggles months ago [Amazon]. I got the email telling me NOT TO USE THEM. Yet they are certified / stamped 14 [NASA recommended].

      Now what the fuck do I do?

  34. Re:Massive Retailers Have Market Power Over Suppli by LeftCoastThinker · · Score: 1

    The trick is for all the legit retailers to file a class action against Amazon in California. It is Amazon's own fault for letting in a massive number of no name knockoff vendors from China (or same with a single front person in the US forwarding their cheap knockoff junk with zero vetting).

    Amazon should eat every penny of the losses because they are the ones that polluted their marketplace, not the legit vendors. I hate how Amazon has become a third world flea market in a lot of ways. I would much rather pay higher prices for legit, high quality products.

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  35. Re:Massive Retailers Have Market Power Over Suppli by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Yes, Amazon is a knockoff centre of the internet (well maybe ebay) but they ignore emails and treat people worse.

    I remember when they just sold books, but know it's any old shite.

    I once brought an item and got some shit imatation instead. I hassled the dealer who did not respond, so hassled Amazon many time until I finally got a reply that they "VET" all the 3rd dealers and said this dealer was legit and selling authentic gear so I gave up in the end but eventually 2 months later I get a refund as appartently a "few" rogue dealers had managed to get into their 3rd dealership.. What a cock and bull storey.

  36. It's easy to test your glasses by njvack · · Score: 1

    If you (like me) bought glasses and then got a warning email from Amazon, the American Astronomical Society has a guide to checking your glasses

    How can you tell if your solar viewer is not safe? You shouldn't be able to see anything through a safe solar filter except the Sun itself or something comparably bright, such as the Sun reflected in a mirror, a sunglint off shiny metal, the hot filament of an unfrosted incandescent light bulb, a bright halogen light bulb, a bright-white LED flashlight (including the one on your smartphone), or an arc-welder's torch. All such sources should appear quite dim through a solar viewer. If you can see lights of more ordinary brightness through your eclipse glasses or handheld viewer, and you're not sure the product came from a reputable vendor, it's no good. Safe solar filters produce a view of the Sun that is comfortably bright (like the full Moon), in focus, and surrounded by dark sky. If you glance at the Sun through your solar filter and find it uncomfortably bright, out of focus, and/or surrounded by a bright haze, it's no good. You should contact the seller and demand a refund or credit for return of the product, then obtain a replacement from one of the sources listed on the AAS’s reputable-vendors page.

    The glasses are so dark that for a moment, I thought I'd gotten scammed into buying opaque glasses. The sun shows up as a moderately bright disk. It's very weird to look at the sun.

  37. Where can you find glasses in stock? by Bill+Hayden · · Score: 1

    I've checked about 20+ retailers, and they're all sold out. Anyone have a source on where a pair of glasses can still be ordered in time for the eclipse?

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    1. Re:Where can you find glasses in stock? by almitydave · · Score: 1

      Your best bet at this point is probably to get them in person. Are there any planetariums or museums in your area? You might see if they have them in their gift shops. If there's a university with an astronomy department near you, they might be able to help you find some.

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  38. Re:Massive Retailers Have Market Power Over Suppli by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Not to mention the fact that Amazon outright refuses to do anything about fake reviews. Google some reviews on cheap mice and you'll see that they are fake, fake, fake. Ban the reviewer, and ban the vendor until he proves he is from the country he pretends to be from.

  39. Are mine possibly fake? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I ordered 10 from Orion Telescope with their branding on them and I can indeed see my CFL bulb from about 5 feet away. Is that of any indication they might not be safe?