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Popular Pesticides Keep Bumblebees From Laying Eggs (npr.org)

An anonymous reader quotes a report from NPR: Wild bees, such as bumblebees, don't get as much love as honeybees, but they should. They play just as crucial a role in pollinating many fruits, vegetables and wildflowers, and compared to managed colonies of honeybees, they're in much greater jeopardy. A group of scientists in the United Kingdom decided to look at how bumblebee queens are affected by some widely used and highly controversial pesticides known as neonicotinoids. What they found isn't pretty. Neonics, as they're often called, are applied as a coating on the seeds of some of the most widely grown crops in the country, including corn, soybeans and canola. These pesticides are "systemic" -- they move throughout the growing plants. Traces of them end up in pollen, which bees consume. Neonicotinoid residues also have been found in the pollen of wildflowers growing near fields and in nearby streams. The scientists, based at Royal Holloway University of London, set up a laboratory experiment with bumblebee queens. They fed those queens a syrup containing traces of a neonicotinoid pesticide called thiamethoxam, and the amount of the pesticide, they say, was similar to what bees living near fields of neonic-treated canola might be exposed to. Bumblebee queens exposed to the pesticide were 26 percent less likely to lay eggs, compared to queens that weren't exposed to the pesticide. The team published their findings in the journal Nature Ecology and Evolution.

24 of 137 comments (clear)

  1. The market can handle this by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Funny

    No bees means no pollination. Farmers recognizing this will voluntarily reduce their use of these pesticides once they consider what manual pollination would entail.

    1. Re:The market can handle this by youngone · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Farmers don't operate in a market.
      Corn, Soy and canola are all heavily subsidised in both Europe and the US.
      Interestingly the Shorthaired Bumblebee was extinct in the UK, but because it had been introduced to New Zealand in the 1880's a new population could be started.
      That might not be that interesting actually.

    2. Re:The market can handle this by jvin248 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      The largest crop in the US is not Corn or Soybeans, it's lawn grass. Many of the lawn and garden chemicals homeowners like to use, or are used on plants homeowners pick up at the local big box retailer, contain these chemicals harmful to pollinators.
      The statistic is somewhere around 70% of the foods in the typical American Diet need pollinators. No pollinators then pretty limited menus.

    3. Re:The market can handle this by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 4, Interesting

      No bees means no pollination.

      Wrong. Many crops don't require bees for pollination. For instance, corn pollen is carried in the wind. Other crops, such as alfalfa are pollinated by bees, but don't need pollination to produce the crop (the leaves and stems) and may produce more foliage without pollination. So why should these farmers give a crap about a beekeeper a mile away that they don't even know? Hint: They don't.

      It is already ILLEGAL to spray these pesticides without notifying the beekeepers, but enforcement is lax, and when a beekeeper finds a million dead bees in her hives, it is almost impossible to find out which farmer was responsible.

      These pesticides should be banned except for some very narrow uses.

      Disclaimer: My mom is a beekeeper. I help her with her hives, so I know a bit about these issues.

    4. Re:The market can handle this by Arzaboa · · Score: 3, Insightful

      My thought is that no plant in the right environment should need any *cide's. Even if every neighbor only doses one bush, it does have a cumulative effect large enough to matter. Most would use the same argument, a smart guy like me should be able to use it so... Think about the people you hear say that and roll your eyes at. Just because bees aren't in there, others are, and just because they aren't bees, doesn't mean they aren't having the same effects on them. This stuff is just bad. So while you aren't a farm causing a 25% loss, even a 5% loss matters. Just because we haven't studied the other 'pests', as well doesn't mean they aren't as important. If they exist, there is a biological reason they are in your bushes.

      Tailoring a yard for the local environment with local plants, or food, has so many benefits. Plants that are naturally occurring don't need all this "help", and stay under control with light pruning/cutting. Local plants only need what rain falls locally. It certainly may not look the same as mom's house, but that doesn't mean its not very pretty. It is hard for humans to change what makes them comfortable.

      With that said, I get the shortcuts. It is hard to do. We are not setup for it in this country for many reasons. Everyone wants a nice looking piece of grass, but no one has the time. Stores stock cheap products, mostly produced all in the same cycle of plants that need their fertilizer, that are roundup-resistant. Its easy to keep control of a cycle like that. There is no incentive to change it for the large companies involved selling what most can "afford" or just that is stocked. The expensive stores are just that, so by definition, most shop at large retailers for plants where they can get their discount for a homogeneous selection of plants.

      Its not your fault. It is by design.

    5. Re:The market can handle this by Opportunist · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Yeah, that works out so well with pollution in general, see how people avoid wasting gas, voluntarily install filters and forgo using air condition to make a smaller eco footprint because else we can't breathe anymore? No regulation required.

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    6. Re:The market can handle this by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Hahaha - nice one.

      Here's another...

      Nuclear wars means no people. Countries recognizing this will voluntarily reduce their use of these nukes once they consider what nuclear fallout would entail.

    7. Re:The market can handle this by sjames · · Score: 2, Interesting

      You REALLY need to re-do your research. Neonics are synthetic and NOT used by organic farmers. You might be thinking of nicotine.

    8. Re:The market can handle this by hord · · Score: 2

      Bees aren't native to North America and aren't the only pollinators. Also, it might be important to note that something like 40% of bee hives are transported to California yearly solely for the purposes of running on the gigantic food industry there. Maybe we should be re-thinking how we do food and why bees are such a critical part of it. I eat beef and cows don't need bees.

    9. Re:The market can handle this by Talderas · · Score: 4, Interesting

      The investigation of pesticides is more driven at colony collapse which is the sudden disappearance of the workers leaving the queen and a few nurses the reasoning for it are still misunderstood. This research at least provides some path to explain why the bees disappeared. If the queen is producing fewer eggs, the workers may be able to sense that is occurring and leave the hive either going feral, dying, or attempting to merge with another colony with a healthy queen because it is very rare that the bees in a hive will leave while there's still brood in cells.

      When the colony dies, a bunch of dead bees in the hive, it's far easier to autopsy the hive and determine a cause. You could find the presence of varroa mites, indicators that the bees are suffering from dysentery or nosema, American/European foulbrood, starvation, or a loss of a queen which could not be replaced. There's numerous other reasons as well but unless you perform the autopsy on what you find you can't determine the cause. Blindly blaming pesticides for a bunch of dead bees is pointless when you have the option to find the cause of the colony death.

      --
      "Lack of speed can be overcome. In the worst case by patience." --Znork
    10. Re:The market can handle this by Ol+Olsoc · · Score: 2

      The statistic is somewhere around 70% of the foods in the typical American Diet need pollinators. No pollinators then pretty limited menus.

      Out of work coal miners will be given Q-Tips and sent into the fields to pollinate, just like Jesus would have done.

      --
      The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
    11. Re:The market can handle this by Ol+Olsoc · · Score: 2

      With that said, I get the shortcuts. It is hard to do. We are not setup for it in this country for many reasons. Everyone wants a nice looking piece of grass, but no one has the time.

      Its kind of amusing. I live in a village where the two best lawns are our neighbor across the street and ours. Theirs is definitely the winner. And neither of us use any of that poisonous crap on our lawns.The biggest thing for lawns in our area is lime to make the soil alkaline enough, and corn gluten in the spring. Every so often spread a little finely shredded compost - just beware that it needs to be tested for pesticides depending on where it came from. I have a fireplace and get wood ashes to spread as well.

      When the weather starts to cool in September, overseed with some grass seed, and you hardly need do much else other than mow. It isn't difficult at all - a few hours per season of the lawn maintenance.

      The people who use stuff like Chemlawn and all the weird shit to put on the lawn get this weird thin grass that goes away the minute the service is stopped.

      --
      The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
    12. Re:The market can handle this by Ol+Olsoc · · Score: 2, Informative

      AFAIK these kinds of pesticides are used the most by organic farmers because they are pretty much the only "natural" ones that work, with the others being synthetic pesticides. May not be a coincidence that the organic industry's rise has coincided with the decline in bee populations.

      Neonicitinoids. Just as natural as arsenic and Death Angel Mushrooms? Natural doesn't equal safe, and even then, these compounds, which are similar to nicotine - hence the name - are quite synthetic.

      They were introduced mainly because they are less toxic to mammals and birds than organophosphates. It was also thought that they would break down fairly quickly. As it turns out, they don't, and they are proving to be very toxic to some beneficial insects.

      --
      The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
    13. Re:The market can handle this by Talderas · · Score: 2

      I will admit that it's difficult to search for info on wild bee hives. A majority of search results will go to beekeeping links. That said, beekeepers can and do merge hives together but doing so requires one hive to be queenless and this is obviously different from bees voluntarily leaving one hive and finding another in the wild. Colonies will also respond differently when a frame of brood cells is introduced to the hive. If the hive has a queen they will not accept the brood but they will accept it if they do not have a queen. We can readily observe that some colony responses and behaviors are tied to the queen and that the lack of a queen does seem to trigger different behaviors in colonies.

      I consider it more likely that bees that abandon a queen do so because there's a virgin queen in the mix and there's something inherently wrong with the old queen or reproductive workers in bees that flee lay eggs which are used to raise a new queen in a new hive.

      --
      "Lack of speed can be overcome. In the worst case by patience." --Znork
    14. Re:The market can handle this by dryeo · · Score: 3, Interesting

      One of the problems with residential use is all the idiots who can't follow directions. Label says 50:1 mixture, they say that 10:1 must be better. Don't know much about neonicotinoids but do know that with most systematic herbicides, it's actually self defeating as it kills the tops before it transfers to the roots.
      Took a pesticide applicators course a long time ago and it was consistently stressed that pesticides are a last resort.

      --
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inverted_totalitarianism
  2. Re:Oh by jvin248 · · Score: 2

    Bees consume pollen. Some even call it 'bee bread'...
    http://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/in868
    http://www.hhmi.org/biointerac...

  3. Re:Cue the bee decline denialists by PopeRatzo · · Score: 5, Informative

    Actually the bee population is increasing now.

    The bee population increased 3% in 2017, after dropping 33% in 2016.

    https://www.washingtonpost.com...

    https://phys.org/news/2017-05-...

    In the stock market, and in statistics, that's what's known as a "dead cat bounce".

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...

    --
    You are welcome on my lawn.
  4. Re:Watch your language please by MightyMartian · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Wow you debunked a scientific claim with an anecdotal claim that looks like nothing more than casual observation. I'm sure you're Nobel is in the mail

    --
    The world's burning. Moped Jesus spotted on I50. Details at 11.
  5. Re:Why you are an idiot by PopeRatzo · · Score: 4, Informative

    [agprofessional.com]

    I'll bet you didn't know that Rhonda Brooks, the editor of aggprofessional.com, worked in marketing communications for DuPont for a few decades. DuPont manufactures one of the pesticides that's blamed for killing bees.

    I see you also linked to a USDA report from August 1. Donald Trump appointed Sam Clovis, who has no science background at all to be the head scientist at the USDA. His work experience was as a campaign staffer for Rick Perry (noted idiot who now heads the Department of Energy). This after the Administration announced that all scientific publications from government agencies could not be released until they were vetted by the White House.

    Then, the one actual scientific article you link to actually refutes your points.(read the article, it's short)

    You believe what you want to believe, bucko. You're entitled to your own reality and don't let anybody tell you different.

    --
    You are welcome on my lawn.
  6. Re:this is great by dunkelfalke · · Score: 4, Informative

    Bumblebees are the most peaceful kind of Apidae. And also one of the most important polllinators because they fly out when other insects are still hibernating due cold temperatures.

    --
    "It's such a fine line between stupid and clever" -- David St. Hubbins, Spinal Tap
  7. Where Was The Testing? by ytene · · Score: 2, Insightful

    We need to consider this story in abstract - and when we do it is much more disturbing.

    In essence, what has happened here is that a pesticide supplier, i.e. a commercial organisation that is required by law to have their products tested and approved by a Federal agency, developed and tested a product which has now been shown to be detrimental to the environment in a pretty significant way.

    But what would have happened if the detrimental impact from this chemical had caused sterility in men, for instance? Or early onset dementia? Or some other unpleasant, irreversible side effect? The whole point behind having Federal agencies and licensing requirements is to ensure that no chemicals released into the environment have such results.

    It's easy to think that, in the 21st century, these are exaggerated or "doomsday" scenarios. If we thought that, we'd be wrong. Mankind does not learn from past mistakes in this regard. In the mid 1940s, the US released huge volumes of DDT into the environment. The chemical caused the shells of (wild) bird eggs to be super-thin and especially brittle and was responsible for the near-extinction of the Bald Eagle. In the 1950s, the drug thalidomide became widely available - resulting in literally thousands of individuals being born with mal-formed limbs, unable to care for themselves. The list goes on...

    Bottom line: the moment we put profit ahead of public safety, scandals follow. As a sophisticated society, with a well-developed and functioning scientific community, there should be no excuses for the situation we see described in this article. The doubly sad and shocking thing is that it seems it will only be when we experience a potentially extinction-level event that we will see a determination to do something about this. By then it might be too late.

  8. Re:Thomas Malthus was right by Kiuas · · Score: 2

    The Green Revolution only shifted the catastrophe from mankind to plants & animals.

    Last I checked homo sapiens sapiens was part of the animal world too, no?

    It's enabled us to unwittingly explode in population - for what?

    For our own benefit, what else?

    Does a person who was never born suffer for never having existed?

    I presume the implication here is that had we never had the green revolution no unborn humans would've been harmed as the population would've simply never grown to its current size and therefore the green revolution is an evil thing that shouldn't jave happened. But that's simply not true. The green revolution happened out of necessity, it happened because people were starving and we had the means to develop ways to get more food to there's people to reduce starvation and reduce human suffering.

    I'm acutely aware of the environmental issues caused agriculture, which is why, for the past couple months I've cut out all meat and roughly 90 % of all dairy. And I intend to maintain this diet, despite the fact that fucking love bacon, it's just that at this point I think someone with as much access to information as I do and living in the west, reducing meat and other animal products intake is while still not starving to death and eating food that tastes alright is both possible and economically feasible, and for someone in my position it's the single biggest consumer choice that I can do to try to control the ecological impact we're having on the biosphere.

    However at the same time I'm always frustrated as hell to see people make this bland black and white argument of 'man bad, nature good!" as if we're not a part of nature (and conversely, as if moral judgements themselves are not a man made idea but somehow universal truths) and acting according to our genes just as much as the bees and all the rest. We're doing what we've been the best at doing on the planet for hundreds of thousands of years, which is surviving at all costs. Yes, that has over the millenia meant that we've hunted many a species to extinction destroyed numerous others unwittingly, because despite being the smartest force on the planet we're still just very advanced apes and not omniscient, but what makes the position of the eco-misanthropes so unbearable to me is that they seem to assume we are. Like, do you seriously think men of science, human beings with intelligence and compassion for their fellow man, should've looked at the starving masses of people in the early parts of the last century and gone: "well, I think we have some ideas of how we could grow more food for all these people, but since it might lead to unknown consequences let's just let them die horrific deaths' Such an attitude is essentially genocidal.

    More to the point: Population growth provably decreases with a rising standard of living. People have less children in developed countries because they don't need to have 13 of them to make sure that even as 4 of them die in childhood, they still have enough labor to make sure someone farms their land and provides for them at their old age. The number of children globally per couple is coming down fast because advancements in the quality of life and technology are allowing people to not rely so much on manual labor and their own offspring as a sustaining force for their own old age. People in the west have access to an excess of food that would be unimaginable to anyone living in the past, or in the developed world today I can go out today and buy a delicious, ready cooked lunch with a fraction of my day's income without having to even exert any effort into preparing it myself. This used to be the luxury of kings and queens, and for us it's a common activity. yet the people in the west are having the least kids on the globe. I'm not sure I'll ever have biological kids, but if I do the maximum amount is 2, more likely

    --
    "It is the business of the future to be dangerous" -Alfred North Whitehead
  9. So like nicotine and mammals by Togden · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Nicotine has been shown to have a similar effect on mammals.

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov...

    I know its not the same, but they are part of the same family of chemicals, this should really have been investigated before they were approved for wider use.

  10. Show the evidence by sjbe · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I know in my yard, the ONLY thing I use neonicotinoids on are my non-flowering ornamental bushes (which are trimmed enough to keep from flowering). Without it, unfortunately most would all be dead due to scale. Yes, I tried everything else and nothing worked until I applied Merit and that stuff is magic. Applied only once a year and the problem is gone.

    Maybe the fact that they cannot survive without putting toxic chemicals on them is a hint you should take. How about planting something that doesn't require special toxins to survive. Native plants are usually a good start.

    I don't think the casual use by homeowners seeking protection of some established ornamentals is much (if any) exposure to bees.

    Based on what evidence? You "don't think" it is a problem why exactly? And we're not talking about one or two homeowners. We're talking about millions of them all across the country using quite a lot of the stuff. Furthermore the chemicals don't just stay were you spray them and they don't magically disappear.

    I would not be in favor of any type of across-the-board ban of neonicotinoids if it would mean taking it out of the hands of responsible use in ways that can't possibly be much danger.

    Given that there appears to be substantial evidence of important negative effects on critical pollinators, exactly what is the basis of your argument? Because you think your are being "responsible" with them? Particularly in regards to plants that are purely ornamental. There is such a thing a responsible use in the food supply but no such thing exists for ornamental plants including lawn grass. If your lawn requires even occasional spraying then you are Doing It Wrong.